Two Batteries ?

[Rattletrap]

I'm taking delivery of my new pontoon boat next month. I was wondering should I have a backup battery and battery switch put in? Please let me know what you think.

[Phantom]

It certainly doesn't hurt .... especially if you run your electronics at the sandbars i.e. FM/Sirius Radio, VHF, Chart plotter, Power for your blow up toys (raft inflator), Refrig, Blender (essential), etc ....




.

[Water Camper]

I did. Makes the Mrs feel a lot more comfortable. Especially if you're like me and play the tunes even when the boats off.

Hope this helps,
Bill

[Rattletrap]

I would assume it's pretty straight forward they add another battery and a switch then toggle between the two?

[Woodsy]

Rattletrap,

Its not 'that" simple... put its pretty easy for them to do! I have 2 batteries and that piece of mind is always nice to have...

Here is a link to what they look like...

http://www.westmarine.com/battery-switches-cables/perko

Woodsy

[Rattletrap]

Woodsy,
I was looking at the switches from the link some have locks on them ? For what I'm not sure, another level of security from boat theft?

[Rich]

Nothing marine is quite that easy! :)

You can decide to go simple.. two batteries, and a marine battery switch, and then remember to manually manage the switch so that both batteries are charged, and that you don't draw both of them down at the same time when anchored, so one will still work when you need it to start the engine. Oh, and don't switch the batteries while the engine is running so as not to chance damaging your alternator.

Or, in addition to a battery switch, add a charge isolator so that both batteries are always charged, and all you need to do is to select the alternate battery if you happen to draw one down too much (and don't leave it on 'both' so you don't discharge both of them at the same time).

And, do you have as shore power charger? Will it handle two batteries?

You may want to consider the type of batteries too, at least one combination starting/deep cycle, or use two. Or use one starting and one deep cycle, or two combo start/deep cycle.

Here is one example of an isolator:
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/charles-marine--marine-multi-battery-isolators--P009_271_006_505

It all depends on your pocketbook and ability to pay attention to details.

[Rattletrap]

Nothing marine is quite that easy! :)

You can decide to go simple.. two batteries, and a marine battery switch, and then remember to manually manage the switch so that both batteries are charged, and that you don't draw both of them down at the same time when anchored, so one will still work when you need it to start the engine. Oh, and don't switch the batteries while the engine is running so as not to chance damaging your alternator.

Or, in addition to a battery switch, add a charge isolator so that both batteries are always charged, and all you need to do is to select the alternate battery if you happen to draw one down too much (and don't leave it on 'both' so you don't discharge both of them at the same time).

And, do you have as shore power charger? Will it handle two batteries?

You may want to consider the type of batteries too, at least one combination starting/deep cycle, or use two. Or use one starting and one deep cycle, or two combo start/deep cycle.

Here is one example of an isolator:
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/charles-marine--marine-multi-battery-isolators--P009_271_006_505

It all depends on your pocketbook and ability to pay attention to details.
Thanks Rich ! I beginning to understand B.O.A.T and i haven't even taken delivery of the dam thing :laugh:

[VitaBene]

We have 2 batteries- turn the switch to both on the way out, 1 or 2 for hanging out listening to tunes, then both on the way back in. Good to know you have a fully charged battery at the end of the day.

[Rich]

We have 2 batteries- turn the switch to both on the way out, 1 or 2 for hanging out listening to tunes, then both on the way back in. Good to know you have a fully charged battery at the end of the day.

yes.. this is the simple and less expensive method! :) Don't forget to switch to 1 or 2 when hanging out on the water without the engine running. And then don't forget to switch to 'both' when the engine is running to charge them.

People have been doing this for years!

[thinkxingu]

Are the stereos you folks working with very high voltage? I ask because a standard car radio should run for a month of Sundays on regular power, yes?

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[radioman]

The only time you will regret not spending the money for a 2-bat system is the day that you turn the key and nothing happens!! Remember that I said That!!

[thinkxingu]

The only time you will regret not spending the money for a 2-bat system is the day that you turn the key and nothing happens!! Remember that I said That!!
I just wonder if one of those jumper things isn't a better alternative vs. the expense and maintenance of a second battery.

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[brk-lnt]

A second battery is certainly nice, but it's probably not a necessity.

A portable jump pack can be had for $60 and has utility outside of just the boat. Most of them have cigarette-lighter outlets as well, increasing the utility.

You'd have to be spending all day at a sandbar to risk running your battery low (IMO).

This is one of those things that might be worthwhile if you can get it done for $400 or less. Beyond than, I'd probably reconsider it (you can also always add it later).

[JasonG]

I have been in the business of selling marine smart charger for 10+ years. Being stuck in the middle of the big lake just would not be fun.

I have heard all the horror stories. 2nd battery is the way to go.

[Slickcraft]

New boat two batteries. New boat two batteries. New boat two batteries.............:D

[jbolty]

I don't have a boat, but do have an RV. As mentioned, there needs to be an isolator so the "house" battery can be run down without affecting the vehicle battery but also allows them to charge together. I also have a 5w solar panel to keep the second battery charged up.

[Dave R]

By chance is there an emergency pull start option on the outboard? My parent's fist boat had a 40 HP Evinrude that had a hand-wound pull start cord under the cowl. It was a pain to use, but worked great the day we needed it. Not sure if new outboards have the option these days...

[Descant]

I have two batteries, isolator, switch etc. Came with the boat. But I also carry a jump box. A fairly good one as the ones from Walmart didn't have the "umph" needed sometimes. Besides jumping, it has the 12V outlet that can also be used to recharge it, a worklight, an air inflator and two 110V AC outlets (inverter). Rattletrap has 'toon, so I guess he's not worried about running the bilge pumps all week when he's gone. I have arrived on Friday night, marina closed and dead batteries. Love the J Box.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

We have 2 batteries- turn the switch to both on the way out, 1 or 2 for hanging out listening to tunes, then both on the way back in. Good to know you have a fully charged battery at the end of the day.I was always under the impression that running on both batteries would fry the alternator. My Baja has a pair of batteries (single engine) with a battery switch (labeled Off-1-2-Both) and I want to say the switch has a note on it indicating running on both would be bad. I'll have to look once I get it out of storage to be sure.

In my situation, to be safe, I've always run on one battery for an entire day and the next day I go out, I use the other battery and I just keep switching back and forth like that. Since it's parked on the trailer, I don't have to worry about the bilge pump running batteries down.

[Top-Water]

yes.. this is the simple and less expensive method! :) Don't forget to switch to 1 or 2 when hanging out on the water without the engine running. And then don't forget to switch to 'both' when the engine is running to charge them.

People have been doing this for years!


Have been using the two battery set-up since the mid eighties. I can honestly say I have some experience with them in a number of different boats. Have had both inboards and outboards with this set up. Any boat I've ever had in the past has had this and any boat I get in the future would have this option, it's worth the investment. It's the first thing that was done on my sons new (to him) used boat last year.

They are not that difficult to install, but that kinda depends on your skill set and if your confidence doing projects like this. I have always wired them up myself and never had any problems.

One word of caution never ever ever ever ever turn the switch from one battery to another while the engine is running. It will fry the electronics in a spit second that there is no battery connected to the system.

Some manufactures offer versions of these switches that claim you can, but it's not worth the risk of damaging (with today's new engines) a thousand dollars worth of electrical components.

Some four cycle engines/ automobile engines can survive the switch over, but it's almost always fatal on a 2 cycle outboard.

Usually the engine will keep running and you won't think anything happened, but there is a good chance the charging system has been damaged or will be damaged in the future.

In most charging systems the battery is the regulator, and without it for even for a split second there is the risk of damage to the delicate electrical components.

If anyone is interested, I'd be willing to post some best practices when using one of these switches, its a simple device but there are some do's and don'ts.

I was always under the impression that running on both batteries would fry the alternator.
Not usually a problem do it all the time on all my boats. The danger is if you are running on one battery and then do the switch to two batteries. Many folks think that adding the second battery to the system caused the problem, more often than not it's when you made the switch and for that micro/split second there was no battery connected at all.

[TiltonBB]

Some people have posted that they run with both batteries on. I would never do that. I run one battery one day and the other battery the next time I use the boat.

The potential problem with running on both is that if you have a major short or electrical problem you lose both batteries.

If you run on one at a time, and your voltage regulator fails and overcharges, you only fry one battery. If you run on one battery at a time and your charging system fails, you still have a fully charged battery in reserve. When running on both batteries the potential for two dead batteries and nothing left to power your bilge pump is also there. If you kill both batteries at night you will have no lights.

One battery at a time works fine for me! I like the security of having a battery in reserve.

[Dave R]

I move my battery switch from 1 to BOTH to 2 and vice-versa with the engine running all the time. As long as it's a make-before-break switch (and I have never seen one that's not), it's fine.

I run mine one either 1 or 2 99% of the time just because I alternate between the two batteries one full day at a time, but it's no big deal to run it on BOTH and it will not harm the alternator to do that. My truck operates with two batteries all the time, there's no switch. Two batteries in parallel is just one big battery to the alternator.

[Slickcraft]

Some people have posted that they run with both batteries on. I would never do that. I run one battery one day and the other battery the next time I use the boat.

The potential problem with running on both is that if you have a major short or electrical problem you lose both batteries.

If you run on one at a time, and your voltage regulator fails and overcharges, you only fry one battery. If you run on one battery at a time and your charging system fails, you still have a fully charged battery in reserve. When running on both batteries the potential for two dead batteries and nothing left to power your bilge pump is also there. If you kill both batteries at night you will have no lights.

One battery at a time works fine for me! I like the security of having a battery in reserve.

Agreed, that is our approach.

[Barney Bear]

On our previous I/O boat, we always ran on both batteries - never had a problem. On our newer outboard boat, we were advised to run on one battery. We run on 1 on odd number days and 2 on even number days.

[BroadHopper]

Here is a link to an explanation of why a battery isolator protect the batteries from overcharging as oppose to running a boat with the switch on both. The link also show proper way to wire the boat batteries.

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/58/Battery_Isolators_and_Automatic_Charging_Relays

High end boats such as Formulas are set up this way from the factory.

Google and you will find electronic battery tenders that switch, isolate and tend the batteries electronically!

https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/11/41/e-Series

[raydoe1]

Would it be easier and less expensive to buy a "jump start" battery and keep in the pontoon? Of course you would need to check it occasionally to make sure it has a full charge, but if you buy a good one I think it would keep its charge through the summer and only have to be charged after you use it.

[thinkxingu]

Would it be easier and less expensive to buy a "jump start" battery and keep in the pontoon? Of course you would need to check it occasionally to make sure it has a full charge, but if you buy a good one I think it would keep its charge through the summer and only have to be charged after you use it.
This sounds very familiar.

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[wifi]

This sounds very familiar.


The echo in the room is amazing some times. :laugh:

[Newbiesaukee]

As long as we are almost on topic, two questions:

Can someone recommend a jump start pack which would be appropriate for Searay 230BR?

My concern is dead battery at my dock. With my I/O, if my blower does not work because of dead battery, how do I jump start without blowing up the boat ( this may be a dumb question..but it's the Forum).

Thanks.

[radioman]

The answer is quite simple: ventilate the engine compartment

[Newbiesaukee]

Is it adequate just to raise the engine compartment cover? I realize that is the obvious answer but was concerned about the heavier gas vapor. Understand, not arguing and appreciate your response.

I may be overthinking this.

[TiltonBB]

As long as we are almost on topic, two questions:

Can someone recommend a jump start pack which would be appropriate for Searay 230BR?

My concern is dead battery at my dock. With my I/O, if my blower does not work because of dead battery, how do I jump start without blowing up the boat ( this may be a dumb question..but it's the Forum).

Thanks.

As others have said you could open the engine compartment to ventilate it. You could also give it the smell test when you had it open.

If you had a decent jump pack you could connect it and run the blower off of the jump pack before starting the boat. While the blower is operating you can smell the air that is exhausting through the vents to see if there are any gas fumes.

I have a 10/50 AMP battery charger at the house. If I had a dead battery I would connect it on 10 AMPS for about 20 minutes and run the blower for the last 5 minutes. Then switch to 50 AMPS, wait 2 or 3 minutes and start the boat. That should work but if it didn't, you may have other problems like a junk battery.

[radioman]

In most cases simply opening the motor cover or hatches and waiting a few minutes will be sufficient, however, as a child I was always taught to get on my knees and get my head into the compartment and use my nose. This is still good advice and is especially important after taking on fuel. With pontoon boats having outboards, this is not an issue.

[Patofnaud]

On my 'toon I have an A/B/Both switch with one battery and one jump pack.

I 'drive/start' on the battery and I anchor switched over to the jump pack.

If I run the jump pack drive listening to the radio, LED lights, subwoofer,,,, then BFD, it's time to go home.

Switch back to battery and go home. Take the jump pack out and leave it plugged in for the next day.

The jump pack takes less room, does the job well and I do not have to worry about charging it or battery isolation.

[thinkxingu]

On my 'toon I have an A/B/Both switch with one battery and one jump pack.

I 'drive/start' on the battery and I anchor switched over to the jump pack.

If I run the jump pack drive listening to the radio, LED lights, subwoofer,,,, then BFD, it's time to go home.

Switch back to battery and go home. Take the jump pack out and leave it plugged in for the next day.

The jump pack takes less room, does the job well and I do not have to worry about charging it or battery isolation.
This sounds like what I'm looking for--would you mind posting more info, such as where you got the switch, how it is wired, and which jump pack you use?

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[JasonG]

As long as we are almost on topic, two questions:

Can someone recommend a jump start pack which would be appropriate for Searay 230BR?

My concern is dead battery at my dock. With my I/O, if my blower does not work because of dead battery, how do I jump start without blowing up the boat ( this may be a dumb question..but it's the Forum).

Thanks.

Charging/jumping a battery has nothing to do with the boat. It has to do with the battery group size that you have on there.

[depasseg]

Do you have a refrigerator or a separate (large) amp for the radio? If neither, then I'd just bring the jumper pack (as a backup in the unlikely event of a battery drain).

If you have those items, then I'd install a second house battery and move the 12V main wire to it. That way you run down the house battery, not the starter.

I don't like the A/B/Both switches, because I always forget to switch and end up draining both. I prefer the Engine/House automatic cluster. This keeps the wiring separate, and charges both, and allows me to combine both if needed.

Something like this:
https://www.bluesea.com/products/8080/Dual_Battery_Bank_Management_Panel

or this:
http://www.marinco.com/en/716-sq-140a-dvsr

[TiltonBB]

This sounds like what I'm looking for--would you mind posting more info, such as where you got the switch, how it is wired, and which jump pack you use?

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Most people would probably prefer two full sized batteries, a switch, and an onboard trickle charger. You don't have to bother taking the battery, or jump pack, out each time you use the boat. All you have to do is plug the boat in when you return to your dock and the trickle charger will maintain both batteries. Most all larger boats use a system similar to this.

You will have the added advantage of having two full size batteries which have significantly more capacity than a jump pack.

[Patofnaud]

All you have to do is plug the boat in when you return to your dock and the trickle charger will maintain both batteries.

I valet, so having power available is not an option for changing, and I considered a solar panel but the trees make it iffy.


"This sounds like what I'm looking for--would you mind posting more info, such as where you got the switch, how it is wired, and which jump pack you use?"

I use http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DPX6RR4 and never use the 'both' setting.

I simply have a short set of red/black 1 foot cables coming out of it that I connect the jump pack to.

For jump pack, I use a Stanley one from Sam's Club as it has an airpump in it good for filling up the random inner-tube if need be.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/450-amp-jump-starter-stanley/prod13205249.ip?pid=_CSE_Google_PLA_Power_Inverter s_&_Battery_Chargers&source=ifpla&CAWELAID=730010300000284360&adid=22222222627000007110&veh=sem

[thinkxingu]

I also don't have power where we beach.

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[DougNH]

I just carry a Jump-N-Carry JNC660 battery pack. In fact I have a couple and rotate them. When we are away for any extended period (2-4 weeks) I connect to the boat battery to make sure the pump is covered for a longer period. I have found these to be the best battery packs around (just search for JNC660 on amazon).

[fatlazyless]

Nice thing about a pull start engine, and not having a trim n tilt pump ..... nothing to break down ..... it's all manual. Double ditto that for a kayak with a paddle, or a row boat with oars!

You know ....many many boaters are over weight fatties .....people who weigh too much for their height and frame .....and they (you) would probably benefit from some physical boat exercise .... like paddling or rowing!

Why ....... holy cow-a-bunga .......with all the hills here in NH ....hills are everywhere....u is always on a hill....so's with a manual....you just roll that boat down the hill....and let out the clutch in second gear ..... budda-boom .....ka-bingo....and it gets started!:laugh:

[Dave M]

Never felt the need to have two batteries. I have a 20' CC 8cyl boat, maybe on a bigger boat needs them. One fall day went to Wolfeboro and had the heater blanket plugged in. When got back to boat battery was dead. Luckily found a jump start battery. Two key turns and the boat was running. Bought one the next day.
I also bought a "SMART" battery. I attached it to the battery and when I leave for home I hook it up to the outlet I have near the lake. I have a fresh battery when arriving every weekend. This also solves the bilge pump problem. When the battery starts to go low it turns the charger on so you never have a dead battery. Since there's no power outages during boating season, were good. Been doing this for 35 years with no issues.

Dave M

[Old Sarge]

VSR – Smart Battery Switch

The VSR, or Voltage Sensitive Relay, is a very handy little box that solves a load of traditional charging problems on marine electrical systems. It essentially serves as a smart battery switch deciding automatically when either one or two batteries are charged – or discharged. It works great on almost any boat with multiple batteries – and eliminates all of the guesswork that used to come with manual battery switches.

The VSR is installed between two batteries. Many people are surprised to learn that it is NOT connected to either the alternator or charger output wires! Its setup is much more clever.
•If either battery goes above 13.7 volts (due to either alternator or charger output), the VSR connects both batteries together. Both batteries are now charging – without the boater ever having to throw a switch.
•Alternately, when the system voltage drops back below 12.6 volts, i.e., no more charging, the relay opens and the batteries are separate. This means that both batteries now discharge independently.

How a VSR changes real world boating

Let’s say that a fishing boat has a two battery setup. As is often the case, one of the batteries is dedicated to an important job – starting the engine. The other battery is used for other operations, including trolling.
•As the fisherman runs the boat from hole to hole, the engine alternator elevates the voltage to the cranking battery above 13.7 volts. This triggers the VSR to automatically connect the starting battery and trolling battery together. Both are now charging.
•Upon reaching his destination, the boater kills the engine – and, the alternator output – and begins trolling. Because of the lowered voltage, the VSR now disconnects the batteries. Because he is now discharging only one battery, our fisherman is going to have starting power when he needs it later – no matter how long he uses the trolling motor and depletes that trolling battery.
•Once underway again, the alternator power causes the VSR to reconnect the batteries and begins replenishing the trolling battery.
•Back home, the fisherman powers up his onboard battery charger. This increased voltage causes the VSR to once again link the batteries. This means that even a single output battery charger would now be charging both batteries!
•Our fisherman has had a great day on the lake, getting to and from his fishing hole, trolled for hours without killing a battery and never once had to worry about the settings on a manual battery switch.

Thanks to BoatWiring.org

You can still have the dual on/off/both switch with this set-up. Mine came as an option when I bought my boat and it works great!