Capacity/Capacity Plate Question

[thinkxingu]

Hi All,
My 'Toon has a capacity plate that says 11 people or 1800 pounds. In the next couple weeks, I'm planning on taking some friends and their children out. With three couples that have two children each, we'd be at 12 passengers and a rounded-up weight of 1300 pounds. Because of the size of the children, there's plenty of space to sit while underway.

My question: is this legal? I'm confident it's not overloading the boat for space and weight, but the 12 would exceed the capacity plate, and what I can find for wording is wishy-washy.

Thanks!

[AC2717]

rule is that many people or that weight including property whichever comes first

[Phantom]

Agreed !

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[BroadHopper]

my neighbor has a 12 person capacity 'toon and was cited for having 13. He claim that he was not a passenger, he was the skipper and the plate specifically stated passengers. Didn't go well with the officer and he was madder than heck and called the powers to be! Last I knew he lost.

Funny thing is he calls the marine patrol whenever he sees an infraction in rules. Yet, he does not practice what he preaches.

[VitaBene]

Remember that vessels over 26' in length do not carry a capacity plate. A vessel that size may, or may not, be "yacht certified" by NMMA.

[Knomad]

The maximum number of people your boat can carry safely in good weather is 11. That is also the maximum legal number of persons your boat can carry.

[Phantom]

and the debate begins !!


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[Happy Gourmand]

and the debate begins !!


.
What's the debate? Nothing wishy-washy about it. The plate says MAXIMUM CAPACITY 11 PERSONS. The OP will be cited if he/she is stopped by the MP with more than 11 persons.

[Phantom]

I am not at the Marina but I am almost certain mine is similar to this web capture and the key word is "OR"

[Phantom]

Now this is confusing as Heck --

One "Official website states you cannot exceed "either" the person count or weight ..... another says you can


Your boat should have a capacity plate that tells you how many persons or pounds you can have on the boat. Manufacturers typically assume the weight of each person to be 150 pounds, so if you are taking small children or heavier adults, you need to adjust the number of people you can take. The capacity plate will also tell you the horsepower recommendations.

http://www.safeboatingcard.com/Manual/Chapter1/Chapter1_3.jsp


Another interesting fact is this question / debate came up in 2010 in this very Forum with no conclusion
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10520


and Finally -- seems there are different versions of the Capacity plate. The below would indicate Max number of people as Gourmand indicates





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[Phantom]

woops forgot pic

[thinkxingu]

This is my point exactly, Phantom--in the NH boating guide, it says, "SOME states prohibit exceeding the manufacturer's recommendations."

[thinkxingu]

From the BoatUS site:

"While it is not a Federal violation for a boat owner to exceed the listed capacities, many states do have statutes prohibiting the carriage of people and gear in excess of the stated capacity, or the installation
of a motor that exceeds the recommended horse power."

I know that I shouldn't overload the boat--I get that--but I'm struggling to think adding one 30-pound kid is an issue, which is why I'm asking about legality. I guess the other question is whether or not my capacity plate says "OR" in between number of passengers and weight.

[Misha888]

Be sure the smallest child can fit in a storage compartment before you launch.

Hi All,
My 'Toon has a capacity plate that says 11 people or 1800 pounds. In the next couple weeks, I'm planning on taking some friends and their children out. With three couples that have two children each, we'd be at 12 passengers and a rounded-up weight of 1300 pounds. Because of the size of the children, there's plenty of space to sit while underway.

My question: is this legal? I'm confident it's not overloading the boat for space and weight, but the 12 would exceed the capacity plate, and what I can find for wording is wishy-washy.

Thanks!

[Nautique2001]

The capacity plate on my 11' Boston Whaler always makes me laugh:

"2.5 persons" or a poundage that I forget.

Where, the family joke has run for almost 40 years, do we find that 1/2 a person?

[Rich]

From the BoatUS site:

"While it is not a Federal violation for a boat owner to exceed the listed capacities, many states do have statutes prohibiting the carriage of people and gear in excess of the stated capacity, or the installation
of a motor that exceeds the recommended horse power."

I know that I shouldn't overload the boat--I get that--but I'm struggling to think adding one 30-pound kid is an issue, which is why I'm asking about legality. I guess the other question is whether or not my capacity plate says "OR" in between number of passengers and weight.

Want to avoid a ticket or fine? Call the Marine Patrol before you head out and get your answer. Then you can know who needs to stay home on the dock and who can come with you on the water.

Be safe!

[camp guy]

Although I am not a lawyer, my guess is that if you exceed the limits of the plate, and you are unfortunate enough to have an accident of any type, the fact that you have exceeded the limits of the plate my compromise your insurance coverage. That could be a real can of worms to sort out, especially if there were personal injury involved.

Just sayin'.

[AC2717]

it would lead to you possibly being being more at fault
but insurance does cover stupdity

[caloway]

Equally useless info: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10520

[thinkxingu]

I'll be checking out my plate's wording and getting back to y'all early next week!

[ApS]

A better argument (than passengers + skipper) could be made based on the Coast Guard's fairly recent change in the rating of capacity:

The U.S. Coast Guard feels the U.S. people have gotten fatter over time,” said Capt. Ed Sparrow, owner of a Miami-based charter yacht called Holiday of Magic. Its legal capacity has shrunk from 49 to 35 passengers.

On Dec. 1 of this year, an amended federal rule took effect that recalibrated the average weight of a passenger at 185, a 25-pound jump.

TWIN TRAGEDIES

The revamped weight standard applies to all passengers, regardless of gender, and was based on a 2004 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that found the average male, 20-75 years of age, weighs in at 191 pounds, up from 166 pounds in 1960. For women, the tally went from 140 to 164.

The call for change stemmed from two boating tragedies. In March 2004, a pontoon water taxi called Lady D overturned in Baltimore Harbor with 25 aboard. Five people died; four were severely injured.

In October 2005, a monachal called Ethan Allen sunk in 70 feet of water on Lake George in New York while carrying 49 passengers. Twenty elderly people died.

In both cases, the vessels were carrying the proper number of passengers but an excess amount of weight. Those accidents shined a spotlight on the antiquated assumed weight, which was a puny 140 pounds for boats that cruised solely on “protected waters” such as rivers and lakes.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/as-waistlines-expand-boat-capacity-sinks/nL2NG/

Blame McDonald's...

:rolleye2:

[JasonG]

What about liability? Lets face it, many times those plates are leaning on the side of caution, and I do get that.

But if the capacity is 10 adults, and you have 6 adults and 6 kids, you are likely OK, assuming everyone had a seat...but what about liability? If there was ever a problem, and someone is getting sued, are you as the boat owner shifting liability toward yourself by exceeding capacity?

[AC2717]

insurance does not exclude stupidity, but does exclude criminal intentional acts, not the answer you are looking for, so the main answer is
it all depends

[Misha888]

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/.../chaparral-boats-faces.../

[Dave R]

What about liability? Lets face it, many times those plates are leaning on the side of caution, and I do get that.

But if the capacity is 10 adults, and you have 6 adults and 6 kids, you are likely OK, assuming everyone had a seat...but what about liability? If there was ever a problem, and someone is getting sued, are you as the boat owner shifting liability toward yourself by exceeding capacity?


Depends entirely on the cause of the "problem". If a drunk crashes into an "overloaded" boat, the drunk operator that did the crashing would be liable. If the overloaded boat capsized due to stability issues, the liability would likely fall squarely on the shoulders of the captain of the overloaded boat.

[Rich]

This discussion reminds me of the one I hear from some people about speeding tickets.

They say the road and their car was designed to handle a speed of (pick your speed), but the ticket was issued for less than that speed, and the road was wide open and it was a sunny, dry day at the time of their ticket.

Good luck using that excuse to get the ticket dismissed.

How do you think these many arguments are going to hold up if the MP stops you for having either too many people (by count) or too much weight in your boat if there is a capacity plate on your boat? Of course, I don't think the MP rides around with a scale to weigh all your passengers, but even so, don't over load your boat, especially if there is a capacity plate. ;)

[SeaWassp]

Why not call the Marine Patrol directly and ask them. That will end the debate. Also good info for us all to know.

[Rich]

Why not call the Marine Patrol directly and ask them. That will end the debate. Also good info for us all to know.

I tried suggesting that once already:

Want to avoid a ticket or fine? Call the Marine Patrol before you head out and get your answer. Then you can know who needs to stay home on the dock and who can come with you on the water.


But obviously it's not as fun as debating/discussing it here! LOL :laugh:

[Misty Blue]

The argument that the "Captain" does not count is all wet. (No pun intended, well, maybe) And I use the term "Captain" to let him know who is responsible for the safety of all on board and that the vessel meets all standards.

The capacity plate indicates "PERSPONS" not passengers. Stupid argument that will only P-off the officer.

The 185 pound thing caught me by surprise. I usually keep up on these things but the capacity plate in the previous post implies 200# per person. (7 persons or 1400#) I will do some research on that.

I can't stress enough the maximum capacity. The power company uses boats to service the islands. (Great guys) They are also BIG guys. When they are taking a 300# transformer to the island they must deduct that weight from the max and make adjustments for their burly linemen.

All of the commercial vessels that I operate are de-rated in the "persons" limit to account for customers who do not fit into the 150# limit that was assumed when the name plate was installed.

Hope this helps.

Misty Blue