Lower Wboro electric rates = more/longer power outages???

[beaner]

Folks who have lived in downtown Wolfeboro for decades have been accustomed to very few power outages. On the rare occasion the power did go out, the duration was very short. Even during the big ice storm of 1998, we lost power for only 15-20 minutes, tops.
But in recent months, we have endured multiple outages lasting hours, and winter hasn't even officially started yet.
Earlier this year, our municipal electric department proudly announced a rate cut of up to 18%. But, repairing the damage from frozen plumbing due to a power outage would wipe out any cost savings.
What has changed? And, am I the only person who would happily forego a (temporary) rate dip in order to regain the reliable power supply we used to enjoy? :(

[barefootbay]

I have lived in Wolfeboro for over 40yrs and have never experienced outages of these recent durations. Something's up!

[Music Man]

I don't have any insight, but wet, heavy snow inevitably leads to a downed line somewhere. Perhaps they should have kept back some of that savings and spend more on trimming trees.

As for freezing pipes - my house is 110 years old, and the best investment I made was in foam insulation a couple of years ago. The power was out for over six hours last night and the house only cooled off 3 degrees! (it helped firm up the structure as well)

[beaner]

Just found this on their web site:
"Customers of the Wolfeboro Municipal Electric Department experienced a town-wide power outage on the evening of Tuesday December 9th at approximately 5:00 PM. Based upon the monitoring of fault indicators and patrolling efforts by both Wolfeboro and PSNH Line crews, the problem was isolated to the section of the 390 line owned and maintained by PSNH within the Town of Tuftonboro. The 390 Line is located off-road within a right-of-way which is the sole source of power to all of Wolfeboro’s electrical substations. Upon an outage, each section of this line must be patrolled in order to locate the cause of the problem prior to re-energizing. This entails the walking of several miles of off-road right-of-way and inspecting all poles and conductors for probable damage. A large uprooted pine tree was discovered by PSNH crews across the 390 line at approximately 7:30 PM in an area with no available vehicle or equipment access. The tree was cleared and repairs were made to the line by approximately 11:00 PM. The line was re-energized at 11:13 PM restoring power to all Wolfeboro customers. I would like to thank our customers for their patience and understanding during this storm event.
BAM12/10/14"

We've had our share of much more destructive storms over the years (even a tornado and a waterspout or two), resulting in trails of flattened debris & destruction. And yet, the power stayed on. :confused:

[CAVU]

I always wondered when they are going to finally figure it out and put it all underground where it belongs..

[tis]

Don't forget, the town owned power station used to come on in the downtown area when the power went off. Of course that is no more. The generators are gone. Also, I believe that now the majority of the linemen are not Wolfeboro employees, but employed by NHEC and sort of leased to Wolfeboro.

[wifi]

Don't forget, the town owned power station used to come on in the downtown area when the power went off. Of course that is no more. The generators are gone. Also, I believe that now the majority of the linemen are not Wolfeboro employees, but employed by NHEC and sort of leased to Wolfeboro.

Its not fair to supply downtown with public generators and not supply outlaying areas, LOL Hence no generators. :laugh:

[beaner]

Its not fair to supply downtown with public generators and not supply outlaying areas, LOL Hence no generators. :laugh:

The downtown businesses' backup systems only give them about 10 minutes of operating time...just enough to safely power down their computer systems. Consequently, all the retail businesses were closed by 5:00 - every grocery store, gas station, Rite Aid, etc. The only places open were the police station and Huggins Hospital. So, if you planned to stop after work to buy food, gas, or medicine, it didn't matter whether you live in downtown or further afield, you were "S.O.L". Sounds fair to me!
:rolleye1:

Tis, I think you might be right about the Lehner Street generator. It was probably able to supply enough power for the downtown businesses and homes.

[dpg]

I don't have any insight, but wet, heavy snow inevitably leads to a downed line somewhere. Perhaps they should have kept back some of that savings and spend more on trimming trees.

As for freezing pipes - my house is 110 years old, and the best investment I made was in foam insulation a couple of years ago. The power was out for over six hours last night and the house only cooled off 3 degrees! (it helped firm up the structure as well)

Keep in mind last night was a (relatively) mild night by mid December standards. If it were say 5 or 10 degrees out you would of cooled down way faster in 6 hours. What was it when it went out maybe in the forties outside?

[Rusty]

Is the following statement correct? Wolfeboro has it's own Municipal Electric Department that buys electricity. Once it gets to their sub-station/s it then gets distributed to it's customers.

Also how many electric utilities does Wolfeboro buy from?

Anyone know?

[tis]

The power plant used to supply the whole town, but then the town got too big and they had to buy power from Public Service to augment the supply. When the town got too big, they kept the power plant and for a while the power plant was a supplement, then just a backup, and then eventually closed. I was very sorry to see the power plant go. The power prices had gotten pretty expensive in the last contract with PS, but the latest contract was lower so prices have gone done this last time.

[Winter Harbor Native]

The line that feeds Wolfeboro from Ossipee and or Meredith carries the
Power to Wolfeboro's substation. As one stated The Municipal Electric Dept
of Wolfbeboro one of 5 remaining in the State distributes the power to Wolfeboro
PSNH before deragulation was the sole wholesale Power Supplier to Wolfeboro.
A Municipal with its compact system usually insures
favorably rates. However, 99 per cent of Municipal Electric Dept stand alone
with their own administration, own linemen, and a Board of Commission. This was the way until Wolfeboro changed to Town Mgr. form of Gov. The Electric Dept should stand alone, hire there own locally employees and deal with
the union issues. Check out Littleton.

Anyways, the Main Line into Wolfeboro is owned by PSNH to the Wolfeboro line.
wherein the remaining 3 miles is owned by The Electric Dept. It is cleared to the right of way lines. A huge tree coming down on this line entails 5-6 hrs
of outage. Prepare for a long outage. We were lucky the time before this,
when we were only out a short time. The high line is through the woods, with no roads and can you imagine hunting for an outage all the way to Ossipee or neighboring towns in the rain and dark.

Although the Power Plant was a nice asset for many years, and actually saved as a reserve off the PSNH bill.

Sometimes things happen in bunches, so we may not see another High Line
failure in several years, however, my suggestion would be to look at another
possible backup line into Wolfeboro, maybe in Brookfield or Alton.
We are not afraid to spend money for consultants, so why not look at it and
use the million dollars alocated for automatic meter reading to check it out.


My opinion is that instead of

[Rusty]

Thank you very much Winter Harbor Native & tis.

I never realized that Wolfeboro was so vulnerable to power outages due to the "Main Line" from the Utility. Also that Wolfeboro doesn't have a backup to use in emergency conditions.

[BroadHopper]

Many of the power outages are attributed to trees and limbs, 100 years ago NH was barren of trees. Now the trees have grown back and are taller than ever. The power companies have spent a lot of time and effort trimming the trees back along essential power lines. Alas they can't get them all! You have to give them credit.

Because of government regulations and cost, many local or municipal power plants are shuttered. I strongly believe the money spent on 'green' energy should be spent on at least maintaining a local source of energy rather than wind farms and power lines to bring energy to our neighbors South. The natural gas line is badly needed, but unfortunately people don't want them in their back yard, but instead have them transported over land in sea which is more dangerous because of the human element.

NIMBY is prevalent everywhere, but unfortunately eminent domain will always take place.

[tis]

I wish the power plant was still in use. I wonder how much it costs us, if that's what they were worried about. Or did it not cost us because of the power we generated? I also wish we had our own local linemen. Nice jobs for the locals. I have heard we pay a lot more than we used to for our own too.

[Billy Bob]

think about the cost of replacing your own small city electric plant when the time came that the old one was at the end of it's useful life and you will see why it didn't make sense to stay independent . On the linemen , the training and other costs of having 3 or 4 guys makes no sense , think about the retirement costs alone ! the old way is not the best way

[Rusty]

think about the cost of replacing your own small city electric plant when the time came that the old one was at the end of it's useful life and you will see why it didn't make sense to stay independent . On the linemen , the training and other costs of having 3 or 4 guys makes no sense , think about the retirement costs alone ! the old way is not the best way

They might be good things to think about, but to bury your head in the sand and do nothing is not a good thing...is it?

I don't have a big problem when the power goes out because I have a generator and a propane stove. I wonder how many businesses in Wolfeboro have any back-up power source?

[Winter Harbor Native]

I agree that as the high line gets older the huge trees will cause problems.
I also believe if natural gas was nearby, we could conceivably generate our
own power, but electricity is not a right, like driving a car, we must be
prepared like one of you be prepared, I suggest alternative source of heat,
or a generator. Remember Enron, and Seabrook.If we bought in..they could have bankrupt us too. It is a guessing game. May not lose power again for a long
time. However, aside from this, we must keep our own utility, and not let
the former Selectmen or former town Mgr who in the past have not wanted to deal with
the administration part and farmed out or outsourced most of the Dept, One way to deal with issues. Go back to Commissioners!

[BroadHopper]

Remember them? They vowed to shut down Seabrook. They did succeed in shutting down reactor II after millions of dollars already spent. And we paid for it! Ironically at the 30th anniversary of the march, the head of the clamshell wished he had a little foresight and allow reactor II to be built. The consensus was PSNH was to shut down the Bow coal plant after the reactors were built. Thirty years later Bow is still one of the worst polluter in New England!

PSNH is trying to build an LNG pipeline from Portsmouth to Bow. Bow will then be converted to gas which is clean! The NIMBYs are preventing the line to be built, yet they don't care if Bow burn coal for another 25 years!

I guess nobody can win unless we take Germany as an example. The government is subsidizing solar panels on roof tops instead of alternative energies such as wind farms and hydroelectric from a foreign country. (Northern Pass). Dean Kamem in Manchester set a good example of solar panels on his commercial buildings. The city of Manchester is currently exploring capping 9 acres of the old rubbish dump with solar panels.

[tis]

I agree the old way is not always the best way, but I have heard, although I do not know it for a fact, that we pay the Coop big money for the linemen as opposed to when we had our own linemen.

[Winter Harbor Native]

I agree.. good post.. .the Clamshell did bankrupt PSNH and Gov. Peterson, I believe when he would not allow the cost into the rates. It was a big undertaking though for a relatively small utility.
I agree that Seabrook II should have been built. However, Clamshell brought
all investors including several Municipals in Mass and NHEC to bankruptcy.
Maybe that just relieved them of the Seabrook bonds, but NHEC had people lose their jobs.
Anyway, what about the Northern Pass? Given the choice I would love to have
electricity.
Can anyone pick out Power towers that make you upset every time you
ride by? The History of Politics and Electricity
in NH is an interesting one.

[HellRaZoR004]

I agree.. good post.. .the Clamshell did bankrupt PSNH and Gov. Peterson, I believe when he would not allow the cost into the rates. It was a big undertaking though for a relatively small utility.
I agree that Seabrook II should have been built. However, Clamshell brought
all investors including several Municipals in Mass and NHEC to bankruptcy.
Maybe that just relieved them of the Seabrook bonds, but NHEC had people lose their jobs.
Anyway, what about the Northern Pass? Given the choice I would love to have
electricity.
Can anyone pick out Power towers that make you upset every time you
ride by? The History of Politics and Electricity
in NH is an interesting one.

As I understand it the electricity from the Northern Pass is not going to be used in NH...someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[BroadHopper]

Northern Pass is exactly that. A pass to let Hydro Quebec deliver electricity to the southern states. The wind farms power is also being distributed to the southern states. Bear in mind, NH produce enough energy that the electrical grid actually supply power to our neighbors!

About 47% of NH power is generated with natural gas. NH depends on natural gas from other states to produced our electricity. The amount of natural gas we use today actually exceed what can be transmitted into the state. That is why we desperately need the pipeline. The pipeline is for our benefit, Northern Pass and the wind farms are not for our benefits. The LNG tankers that supply the gas farms in Portsmouth and Portland are huge! I can't fathom a disaster with one of these floating tankers in Portsmouth harbor! I much rather have buried transmission lines than to take a chance on human error or weather on an LNG tank!

[HellRaZoR004]

Thanks BH.

One thing to note about the natural gas pipelines is (I believe) that not all of it will be buried along the power line right of ways in SNH, but co-located with them. WMUR mentioned this last night in one of their article. I firmly believe that they should bury it.

Edit:
http://www.londonderrynh.net/2014/12/proposed-powerline-project-could-affect-londonderry-landowners/78301

it would stretch across about 70 miles of the southern part of the state of New Hampshire and run alongside existing power lines.

[Winter Harbor Native]

This project will be held up and probably not be built just as Seabrook was.
I am not a fan of the Ct. Co.that took over PSNH because of the bankruptcy
for sure, but here is what they are putting out for PR, not that it will make
a lot of difference. It is the same old not in my backyard. Although it is funny
when Seabrook was being built PSNH said we should not rely on Foreign
power even though it was from our friend Canada. One of those things we can argue for both sides. By the way the power is in one big pool anyway,so it should be more reliable and cheaper for all of us. I think Wolfeboro buys their power from Baltimore Gas and Light or a similar name?

Here is their argument on one of their websites.

FACT: Northern Pass will carry clean hydropower from the New Hampshire border with Canada, south to where it will be distributed throughout the regional grid from a substation in Deerfield, New Hampshire. A portion of the energy will be used in New Hampshire, as well as the other New England states.

In our regional energy system, the price of electricity is based on how much power is available to everyone in all of the New England states. When a new source of low-cost energy is added, it lowers the price of electricity for everyone. An energy market study showed that the added power from Northern Pass will lower energy costs by about $300 million a year throughout New England, and that New Hampshire will save between $20 million and $35 million annually on energy costs as a result.

Northern Pass will also generate $28 million annually in additional tax revenue for New Hampshire, based on 2011 tax rates, adding up to more than $1 billion over the life of the project. When a company builds something, whether it’s a store or a transmission tower, it increases the value of the property— and the property taxes owed to that community. Each town along the route, the counties along the route, and the state will all get additional revenue each year and for years to come once Northern Pass is built. That includes $7.5 million annually paid directly to the state education fund. This additional revenue is generated without increasing the costs of any government services.

[BroadHopper]

What Northern Pass won't tell you is that Hydro Quebec can and will control the cost of the electricity we use. Definitely something we have no control over. Something we really need to think about before relying on foreign energy.

In the past HydroQuebec connected the price of electricity to the market price of a barrel of oil. Oil goes up and electricity goes up. I am not sure if this hold true today.

HydroQuebec did substantial environmental damage in Northern Quebec. There is a National Geographic article in the amount of floodings the dams created. It is a known fact that the floodings had disrupted the caribou migration and cause substantial thinning of the herd. Going 'green' has its drawback. The darling of the green movement, the Prius, has a larger carbon footprint than a Ford truck!

The folks in Groton may have seen a reduction in the town property tax because of the wind farm, but they found out they had to pay out more to the state for education and they also have to pay out more to the county. This was after the fact so the folks are having second thoughts.

The folks in Dixville NH are welcoming the addition of a mega ski resort to upgrade the Balsam Resort, but it may not happen because they allowed a wind farm along the very ridge of the current resort! You can't have it all!