Performance Boats

[Webbsatwinni]

It was great to see all of the performance boats out in force this weekend. Mix that with the antiques running through the broads and it was like old times!

The sound or roaring engines and no blue lights was music to our ears on rattlesnake! I hope they stay around.

[Greene's Basin Girl]

It was great to see all of the performance boats out in force this weekend. Mix that with the antiques running through the broads and it was like old times!

The sound or roaring engines and no blue lights was music to our ears on rattlesnake! I hope they stay around.

I also noticed many smaller boats out in our end of the lake. The boat owners probably thought it would be quiet, but it was heavy boat traffic. There were more bass boats also. I think everyone that had a boat went out for a great ride.

[BroadHopper]

I also noticed many smaller boats out in our end of the lake. The boat owners probably thought it would be quiet, but it was heavy boat traffic. There were more bass boats also. I think everyone that had a boat went out for a great ride.

Looks like a bass boat tournament station at Ellacoya Beach. I notice a large number of bass boats this weekend. A great crowd that never to my knowledge cause problems.

[JDeere]

The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!

[jrc]

As much as the crowds can be irritating at times, it was great to have one last taste of summer. Now comes the wind down and then the long dark wait till spring.

[LIforrelaxin]

JDeere,

Are you sure the Performance boats where the problem? All boats make noise at some level.... If you are in a busy area of the lake, there is going to be some noise.... People need to learn to live with it.

If you want a peaceful serene lake then you should look for some place where motor boats period are not allowed.

I live between the long Island bridge, and the six pack.... It is very busy, every weekend.... it also gets loud when several boats are in the area.... The so called GFBL boats, don't even have to be present, for it to be loud.

It lasts for about 2 or 3 hours, I figure my serenity can be interrupted for that long, and if it really irritates me, then I go inside and watch a movie. or read a book...

What I don't do is go and look for some group of boaters to blame the problem on.... This is a busy lake, it isn't always going to be peaceful and serene when people are out on a nice day having fun.

[VitaBene]

The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!

The lake was busy and choppy yesterday. The performance boats with 24 degree hulls excel in those conditions and were out. Regarding the noise, LI has a thread going on about testing. It seems the MP have been enforcing the law so those boats you heard were likely legal.

[JDeere]

It was your post that raised the issue. The GFBL's are loud and yes I can always see the offending boat and it is always the performance boat that can be heard over the regular boat noise AND as you know boats are getting less loud versus more.

I fully support MP and their efforts to make sure that the boats sound level falls within the law. Who wants to listen to that???

I am not denigrating the GFBL people although I might be denigrating their boats and their desire to make the ruckus on what is really a small lake.

Finally no I do not have to move to another section of the lake....the GFBL boats simply need to abide by the rules....some do and some do not. Pretty simple.

[BroadHopper]

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

[diz]

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!


Did you just compare the treatment of Native Americans to your boat's exhaust? Totally inappropriate.

[Dave R]

I enjoy loud and fast boats going by at high speed. It's interesting and fun to watch, and it's also over pretty quickly. I hate loud boats idling at the dock while I'm trying to have a conversation though. If you have a loud boat at a public dock please shut it down as soon as it's tied up and leave ASAP after you fire it up. Trust me, nobody wants to listen it to it for more than a few seconds. Unless your boat is antique, if it's not fast, please don't make it loud. Loud and slow (<60 MPH) boats are as irritating as loud and slow (<80 MPH in first gear) motorcycles (but fortunately, not as common).

[TiltonBB]

It was your post that raised the issue. The GFBL's are loud and yes I can always see the offending boat and it is always the performance boat that can be heard over the regular boat noise AND as you know boats are getting less loud versus more.

I fully support MP and their efforts to make sure that the boats sound level falls within the law. Who wants to listen to that???

I am not denigrating the GFBL people although I might be denigrating their boats and their desire to make the ruckus on what is really a small lake.

Finally no I do not have to move to another section of the lake....the GFBL boats simply need to abide by the rules....some do and some do not. Pretty simple.

"desire to make the rukus"

"offending boat"

Remember, the boats that have been on this lake a lot longer than most of us have were sometimes not well muffled. I was here in the early 70's when the flat bottom Sangers with the big blocks with twin open exhaust pipes over the transom were quite common. 90 MPH with just an in or out transmission, no reverse, and a foot operated throttle. Yes things change and some approve and others complain.

Maybe those you you feel "desire to make a rukus" just enjoy the sound of their boat and taking a ride on the lake. When they go by my house or I see them out on the lake, I enjoy the sight and sound and have no complaints. I am glad that a fellow boater is having a good time.

Life is too short. I don't even care how fast they are going, as long as they are doing it safely.

This is New Hampshire! Live free or die. Fewer rules is a good thing.

[Webbsatwinni]

The two loudest boats we heard all weekend were two beautiful antiques that were running through the broads on their way to the show. It's too bad that we all can't co exist. Loud performance boats have been on the lake for years, I guess it's too much to ask to be able to live and let live. Live free or die, but do so slowly and quietly!!

I enjoyed the sights and sounds this weekend, no matter how much negativity there is at the lake these days. Enjoy!!!

[Woodsy]

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

You live next to what is essentially a state park and you complain when people actually use it legally! Oh the Horror! People having fun usually make noise of some sort. Your expectation of peace and quiet does not trump the right of the public to enjoy the lake in any lawful manner.

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud. Ambient noise has a huge effect on how people perceive noise...


Woodsy

[Webbsatwinni]

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!


Woodsy

I looked at a boat a few years back and when I found it was through Fay's, I pulled out and went to a non hypocrite dealer. Go Figure ;-)

Great post btw!

[ApS]

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud.

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.

:cool:

.

.

[Donzi Minx]

I posted about a week ago my thoughts on this. When my family still owned an old Chris Craft (almost identical to the boat filmed in On Golden Pond) the old flat head six with what I remember to be 4" copper exhaust through the transom was indeed loud. My only run in with the MP at that time was skiing inside the raft at Ames early in the morning. They just came and took the plate off the boat for a week! No issues with noise then.....1969, 1970? Look how far we have come.

[Webbsatwinni]

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

.

This is great, hundreds of peaceful lakeside residents? I love the facts and detail, can you send us the link to the facts? And the few minutes of exhaust notes could keep someone in the broads blowing a whistle from being saved?

So lets talk fact, there was a stranded boat in Wolfboro bay Saturday afternoon, over 30 nice and quiet boats drove by and didn't stop or offer help in anyway. I was riding on a louder (legal ;-) ) boat and we saw them waving (yes, we saw them waving over the exhaust note), stopped and then towed them to the docks and helped them load it. While towing them, we were almost hit, had many boats come closer than 150 ft and cause enormous wake, all of these boats were quiet.

They were happy to have a louder boat lend a hand, and didn't care one bit that we were, in your words, a scofflaw.

[rsmlp]

Personally, I don't really like loud boats BUT they have every right to be on the lake as others and forum members have every right to articulate their opinion. I've been on the lake for over 40 years and I can't really say there has been any appreciable change in traffic or noise. Back in the 70's, large "cabin cruisers" were all the rage and frankly the numbers of large loud boats has decreased over the past few years. Jet skis are clearly dominant now and I suppose there are people who want to bitch and moan about them too. As long as boat operators are legally operating and reasonably courteous, I DON'T CARE!

[LIforrelaxin]

Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.


Just some facts here:

out door wilderness level 30-40 db
Human talking 70 db
Human yelling 88 db
Boat decibel limit at idle 88 db
Referee whistle decibel > 100 db
foghorn >130 db

These levels are all level at source type measurements. So apparently if boat exhaust is to loud, people best not being yelling around the lake either.....

Read up and understand why the levels that where chosen where chosen. They aren't random numbers. I wrote a big long post on this a couple of years ago...

The real issue here, is how sound travels over water.... on quiet nights I hear conversations from across the lake...

There should be absolutely no problem hearing a cry for help, or a distress whistle, over the noise of boat traffic even on the busiest of days, as long as you are in the vicinity of the problem.

If someone yells for help in Center Harbor, of course you not going to hear it in Meredith...

[TiltonBB]

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.

:cool:

.

.
Wow! I never thought about noise "rendering inaudible calls for help"

My neighbors kids like to play in the water and they are quite loud. I wonder if I should tell them that they can't play any more, or suggest they get muzzles? I mean, I would hate to have them render inaudible a call for help.

My other neighbor has a dog that barks. I wonder if I should suggest that they get rid of the dog in case someone is calling for help when their dog barks, rendering it inaudible?

Last week the guy next door mowed his lawn. I wonder if I should tell him to get a hand push mower so that the noise of his lawnmower motor does not "render inaudible a call for help"?

[Phantom]

Don't know who's boat ..........

But it is sure pretty (to me) to watch these type boats run ....... and envy them for having the money to do so !


Not so much the wanna be's like Baja's ( I pick that brand arbitrarily)




Also to the "noise" whiners .... ever notice that the smaller boats ... Baja, et al (<28') make more "noise" than the true "cigarette" class boats which have more of a powerful rumble than simply exhaust noise ?


(bring the bashing on -- I'm ready not to respond)

[cowisl]

Don't know who's boat ..........

But it is sure pretty (to me) to watch these type boats run ....... and envy them for having the money to do so !


Not so much the wanna be's like Baja's ( I pick that brand arbitrarily)




Also to the "noise" whiners .... ever notice that the smaller boats ... Baja, et al (<28') make more "noise" than the true "cigarette" class boats which have more of a powerful rumble than simply exhaust noise ?


(bring the bashing on -- I'm ready not to respond)

Believe that boat burned a few years back.

[MGWillia]

I don't have a dog in this fight... I'm not back there YET. But I do enjoy reading along. I'm not a huge fan of noise, but it is what it is. And though, in my youth, I had more "boating" events in my life, I am not currently a boat owner. But I have seen a similar trend to another life experience that bugs me personally. Motorcycles. Know, I have NO problem with someone owning, riding, enjoying the fruits of their labors in the form of personal property. The thing that "annoys" me is when they sit and rev. I noticed that was a "thing" for some of the posters here, inasmuch as some "loud" boaters sit at idle at the docks. Same with drivers who feel they must share their car radio with the rest of us. A boat, screaming along at high speed, showing its technological prowess, is awe inspiring. Watching someone cruise away down the road on a big bike speaks to freedom. Ride on... But when you stop, remember the rest of us, just might not enjoy your joy as much as you do.... I believe I would second the poster who asked that they kill the engine as soon as practical after docking. Like I said, no way as informed as the rest of you on the boat side of things. But at some point, while enjoying our personal freedoms, I think it is reasonable to think of others and their enjoyment. (guess I should skip bike week...:D) Thanks for letting me play along.

[jrc]

Engine noise is just one of those things that people won't agree on. For some nothing is loud enough and for some nothing is quiet enough. We passed laws to resolve these conflicts and enforce a compromise. If you think the limits are wrong, talk to your local representative. NH has a huge legislature, you should be able to bend your reps ear.

If you have a limit some one has to enforce it, you can't blame the MP for enforcing the law.

Of course now someone invented the crime of overpowering a whistle, what's next?

[BroadHopper]

Somehow Lake Winnipesaukee has more rules and regulations than any other lake that I can think of, yet we have more 'uncivilized' skippers than any other body of water that I have been on. Is there a correlation or is it a coincidence?

[tis]

I don't have a dog in this fight... I'm not back there YET. But I do enjoy reading along. I'm not a huge fan of noise, but it is what it is. And though, in my youth, I had more "boating" events in my life, I am not currently a boat owner. But I have seen a similar trend to another life experience that bugs me personally. Motorcycles. Know, I have NO problem with someone owning, riding, enjoying the fruits of their labors in the form of personal property. The thing that "annoys" me is when they sit and rev. I noticed that was a "thing" for some of the posters here, inasmuch as some "loud" boaters sit at idle at the docks. Same with drivers who feel they must share their car radio with the rest of us. A boat, screaming along at high speed, showing its technological prowess, is awe inspiring. Watching someone cruise away down the road on a big bike speaks to freedom. Ride on... But when you stop, remember the rest of us, just might not enjoy your joy as much as you do.... I believe I would second the poster who asked that they kill the engine as soon as practical after docking. Like I said, no way as informed as the rest of you on the boat side of things. But at some point, while enjoying our personal freedoms, I think it is reasonable to think of others and their enjoyment. (guess I should skip bike week...:D) Thanks for letting me play along.

You are exactly right. Good post!! Jet skiis can be very annoying when they go round and round and round and round in the same spot.

[Webbsatwinni]

Moved to boating issues???? Read my original post, no issues, it was the forum members that took it to issues.

[upthesaukee]

Moved to boating issues???? Read my original post, no issues, it was the forum members that took it to issues.

It could have been locked up...lesser of two evils. You are correct: the original subject was just an observation. Some later posts took it in a whole different direction. :(

[Webbsatwinni]

This really is just like being at the lake now, a few people ruin it for many. This is like being pulled over by MP for no good reason!

[ishoot308]

This really is just like being at the lake now, a few people ruin it for many. This is like being pulled over by MP for no good reason!

Honestly, what difference does it make if the topic is put here or a couple lines up in the boating section...like people aren't going to read it??

This whole "General Issues / Controversial" section is really quite silly and does nothing to stop people from saying what they will. I wouldn't doubt if more people read whats here than whats posted in the "politically correct" section...

Dan

[MGWillia]

Sorry, new here. I thought it was ok to follow a line of discussion. I wasn't aware of the etiquette in regards to the original post. Again, my apologies for my part in the discussion.

Marty

[Woodsy]

Anytime the topic of performance Boats comes up here on Winni.com, the outcome is very contentious and usually results in the thread being moved.

IMHO, Ever since the speed limit was proposed, the lake has been a VERY divided place. Some people like APS & JDeere let their extreme dislike of performance boats color their posts. If you want a good read, check out some of the speed limit arguments on this forum... some of the videos & pictures APS posted and his spin on them are hilarious. There were an incredible amount of lies told about performance boats. There still are. They had an agenda, the speed limit got passed. It is what it is.

But not much has changed... thankfully!

Woodsy

[Webbsatwinni]

Honestly, what difference does it make if the topic is put here or a couple lines up in the boating section...like people aren't going to read it??

This whole "General Issues / Controversial" section is really quite silly and does nothing to stop people from saying what they will. I wouldn't doubt if more people read whats here than whats posted in the "politically correct" section...

Dan

While I agree, its perception, anything performance is an issue? There are many people at the lake that enjoy these boats and its only an issue to the vocal few.
We were at Naswa Saturday and there was a 38 topgun there and people onshore and boating up, all stopped and stared at it, I do not think there was one person there that walked past without looking and commenting on how nice it was. So where is the issue?

So my issue with this being move to "issues" is that it wasn't an issue, it was a positive note that a few cranky people made an issue of.

Censorship to control perception.

[Chaselady]

Moved to boating issues???? Read my original post, no issues, it was the forum members that took it to issues.

I agree. Nothing seems to stay on track on this forum. You try and say something nice ( and neutral) and before you know it there is someone lurking and waiting to jump in, turn the subject to the negative and high jack it to promote their own agenda.

[tis]

I think conversations stray on most forums. That doesn't really bother me. What bothers me is when people criticize (or worse) others.

[Phantom]

I agree. Nothing seems to stay on track on this forum. You try and say something nice ( and neutral) and before you know it there is someone lurking and waiting to jump in, turn the subject to the negative and high jack it to promote their own agenda.

Totally agree --- seems it is getting much more prevalent (Hijacked threads) than in the past :(


and by virtue of this post-- I just did too.

[Donzi Minx]

Just to add a bit of irony maybe the straying threads need OMERTA.

[Phantom]

Just to add a bit of irony maybe the straying threads need OMERTA.

Your Italian is showing :laugh:

[gillygirl]

While I agree, its perception, anything performance is an issue? There are many people at the lake that enjoy these boats and its only an issue to the vocal few.
We were at Naswa Saturday and there was a 38 topgun there and people onshore and boating up, all stopped and stared at it, I do not think there was one person there that walked past without looking and commenting on how nice it was. So where is the issue?

So my issue with this being move to "issues" is that it wasn't an issue, it was a positive note that a few cranky people made an issue of.

Censorship to control perception.
How are you being censored?

[Webbsatwinni]

How are you being censored?

By placing a simple boating comment into an issues thread, this was not an issue I had. This was made into an issue by others. There is a perception that anything performance is an issue, this change helps with that perception.

[ApS]

While I agree, its perception, anything performance is an issue? There are many people at the lake that enjoy these boats and its only an issue to the vocal few.

The vocal few can't dismiss the three tragedies that plague this boating "issue".

:(

.

[Tyler]

The performance boats did not cause these tragedies, the drunk operators did.

[codeman671]

The vocal few can't dismiss the three tragedies that plague this boating "issue".

:(

.

It was the booze not the boats that caused the problems....And the ones that you were referring to were not high speed accidents.

Nice spin though :rolleye2:

[VitaBene]

It was the booze not the boats that caused the problems....And the ones that you were referring to were not high speed accidents.

Nice spin though :rolleye2:
Why let the facts get in the way of a good argument!

[Rusty]

This discussion about GFBL boats goes down the same path all the time. For the most part it seems to have the same players involved.

No one is posting anything different then what has already been said in many other threads.

Time to move on and enjoy what the Lake has to offer for all of us.

[Webbsatwinni]

This discussion about GFBL boats goes down the same path all the time. For the most part it seems to have the same players involved.

No one is posting anything different then what has already been said in many other threads.

Time to move on and enjoy what the Lake has to offer for all of us.


It was a simple post that started to go down hill with the non performance crowd. Enjoying the lake was the theme of my post, I enjoy seeing it, it was a welcomed change for me, I posted it.

[JDeere]

So, this whole thread boils down to:

Some people like loud noise while others do not.

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Some folks like to quote "live free or die" when they feel their "rights" are in any way infringed yet the person disagreeing has no right to enjoy the lake on their terms and if they do not like it then they should move! Yikes!!!

As I have said I do not like the noise but I have never said the culprits should be banned. If the law says they are too loud then I fully support MP enforcing the law. If some of you do not like the law then work to get it changed but I am not sure what your logic would be....louder is better?

Really?

[Webbsatwinni]

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.



Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

[gillygirl]

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?
Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

[MGWillia]

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go" :)

[HomeWood]

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

[SAMIAM]

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

Second that and add my love for the sound of a tuned exhaust.
The roar of a 427 Shelby Cobra,that pleasing crackle of an Aston Martin,even the rumble of a Harley as long as it's not a straight pipe blast.
No matter what I'm doing,I'll always take a peek when a nice performance boat passes my house.
Love the sound of pipes.

[Rusty]

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go" :)

Some people can't "hear the song" because the engine roar is too loud. :D

[Seaplane Pilot]

Some people can't "hear the song" because the engine roar is too loud. :D

And others can't hear the song because their heads are either stuck in the sand or other places where the sun don't shine. :laugh:

[ApS]

The performance boats did not cause these tragedies, the drunk operators did.
Drunks favor 3½-Ton boats to keep them alive and un-bloodied?

Maybe so:

Weighed together, the dead victims' demolished boats didn't weigh anywhere-close to 3½-Tons.

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go" :)

I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

I certainly can understand why the NHMP are finding "articulable suspicion" regarding these exhausts.

:look:

Maine's Sebago Lake allows very loud exhaust noises—although ocean-racers can be heard from over 8 miles away. Even the 300-foot height and granite mass of Rattlesnake Island can't block the noise from SW side to NE side. (Also true at Johnson's Cove).

Lake Winnipesaukee has a very different geological history than my family's former Sebago Lake island property—which enhanced its allure to my Grandparents. Thanks to my Grandparents' decision to move to Melvin Village, my Dad and I have spent nearly all of our boating lives on Lake Winnipesaukee. (Mostly on Winter Harbor—which BTW—is not a busy thruway).

Note just received from Winter Harbor:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1032014110533PM_zpsc1571c84.jpg

When I'm on the telephone, I always make it a point to let the caller know how exhaust noise (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1am31TT4hDI#t=0) interferes with Lake Winnipesaukee's birding and "quiet-time" pleasures; that is, if the caller can hear me. (!)

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.

:coolsm:

.

[VitaBene]

Drunks favor 3½-Ton boats to keep them alive and un-bloodied?

Maybe so:

Weighed together, the dead victims' demolished boats didn't weigh anywhere-close to 3½-Tons.



I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

I certainly can understand why the NHMP are finding "articulable suspicion" regarding these exhausts.

:look:

Maine's Sebago Lake allows very loud exhaust noises—although ocean-racers can be heard from over 8 miles away. Even the 300-foot height and granite mass of Rattlesnake Island can't block the noise from SW side to NE side. (Also true at Johnson's Cove).

Lake Winnipesaukee has a very different geological history than my family's former Sebago Lake island property—which enhanced its allure to my Grandparents. Thanks to my Grandparents' decision to move to Melvin Village, my Dad and I have spent nearly all of our boating lives on Lake Winnipesaukee. (Mostly on Winter Harbor—which BTW—is not a busy thruway).

Note just received from Winter Harbor:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1032014110533PM_zpsc1571c84.jpg

When I'm on the telephone, I always make it a point to let the caller know how exhaust noise (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1am31TT4hDI#t=0) interferes with Lake Winnipesaukee's birding and "quiet-time" pleasures; that is, if the caller can hear me. (!)

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.

:coolsm:

.
Are you OK? This is one of the most confusing posts I have read on this forum.

My friend, his wife and 2 passengers are very lucky they were in their 7000 pound Doral when they got hit on their port side on the lake this summer by a bad boater in a smaller vessel.

[JDeere]

Some of the replies really are too funny. The thread starts with how wonderful all the boats were and I opined that is was a bit too loud and frenetic for me. Next thing people start to take personal swipes at me...or at least my screen name. One person starts to talk about the Indians and how what happened to them somehow correlates to his right to live free or die. How sophomoric.

Seems many of you get your panties all in twist if someone sees the world differently than you. That is a sad way to live. You have a right to your opinion and I mine...btw...your opinion's did not carry much credence since we now have new laws to deal with speed and noise.

Lastly "live free or die" was never meant to mean do whatever you want.

The phrase comes from a toast written by General John Stark, New Hampshire's most famous soldier of the American Revolutionary War, on July 31, 1809. Poor health forced Stark to decline an invitation to an anniversary reunion of the Battle of Bennington. Instead, he sent his toast by letter:

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.
Stark may not have been the original author of the phrase. Vivre Libre ou Mourir ("Live free or die") was a popular motto of the French Revolution, which the politician Antoine Barnave had engraved on his buttons.[2]

[JDeere]

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

Who wants to coral....eh.... Maybe you mean corral the boats?

Your old man never put anything on his hackercraft. Just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

What the heck does that mean. :eek:

[MGWillia]

lol.. So I'm guessing we haven't seen the movie... :rolleye2:

[Phantom]

The thread that just won't die !




.

[Rusty]

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.



For some reason I visualize you looking like this after the NHMP tell you that your complaint will be looked into and they don't do anything:

[Chaselady]

The thread that just won't die !




.

Like dogs with a bone....

[ApS]

So, change the channel...

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

I can relate to that—even after years at an occupation that has taken away most of my colleagues' sense of hearing.

Are you OK? This is one of the most confusing posts I have read on this forum.


While I prefer to post information regarding the forum's "winni-wildlife", "lost and found", history (http://winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2409), weather, "getting here", and cottage-maintenance forums, what specifically confused you?

:confused:


1) The phrase, "Getting away from it all"?

2) The combined weights of the victims' boats?

3) The State of Maine's exhaust noise regulation?

4) That exhaust noise can be heard on the opposite side of Rattlesnake Island?

5) That exhaust noise on The Broads can be heard in Johnson's Cove?

6) That my family has a long history at Winnipesaukee?

7) That exhaust noise interferes with the simplest of the Lake's enjoyments?

8) That ocean-racers lost "The Big One" in Concord?

9) That ocean-racers can today make more exhaust noise?

10) That using a telephone at the dock becomes impossible due exhaust noise?

11) That NHMP dispatchers get "drowned-out" by exhaust noise?

12) The legal term, "Articulable Suspicion"?

I'll try to use shorter words when possible.

;)


For some reason I visualize you looking like this after the NHMP tell you that your complaint will be looked into and they don't do anything:

I've made sure that the NHMP has no choice in the matter: I only call when two conditions are met.

1) I see the infraction.

2) I see an NHMP officer is already present.

It's worked out well so far; previously, the NHMP appeared between 20 and 30 minutes later. (Most often, too late for the necessary "articulable suspicion"—or even to halt an underage operator—who sadly died (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4800) within my view.)

To their credit, NHMP dispatchers have always followed-through.

:coolsm:

.

[Winnigirl]

I think #1 and #10 are a bit contradictory.

[tis]

I still don't understand how if a boat passed once it can be tested again and not pass. They didn't change the decibel level. Unless someone fooled around with their boat, why would it change?

[Dave R]

I still don't understand how if a boat passed once it can be tested again and not pass. They didn't change the decibel level. Unless someone fooled around with their boat, why would it change?

You answered your own question. Performance boats/cars/motorcycles are rarely not tinkered with to try and extract more performance from them. One of the easiest ways to extract more performance from an engine is to relieve back pressure in the exhaust system. You can do that in three ways, a really big muffler that keeps the noise down, but takes up a lot of space, looks ugly and costs a lot of money, a smaller muffler that trades higher flow for less noise reduction, or a straight through pipe that offers the best flow for the least amount of money and the least noise reduction. Swapping a muffler for a straight pipe can be a 10 minute job, so passing a test once can mean nothing an hour later...

The easiest solution is to keep the boat/car/motorcycle quiet enough to not attract attention. For some, the attention is the sole reason for the loud exhaust.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I still don't understand how if a boat passed once it can be tested again and not pass. They didn't change the decibel level. Unless someone fooled around with their boat, why would it change?


I had the test done 6 years ago, so things may have changed. There are a number of reasons., aside from mechanical changes.

1 - Equipment, calibration and the MP operator - I had to do 3 passes at WOT. The MP averaged those 3 passes to come up with a final DB number. So there is variability. Each pass was between 2 - 5 DB different.

2 - Proximity to MP boat - For the 3 WOT passes, I was asked to be 25 off of the MP boats transom (scared the &^%& out of me at 70 mph, and a bit dangerous I thought). A few feet either way can mean a difference difference between pass / fail.

3 - Weather - My first test was postponed due to fog. The MP told me that humidity, wind, etc can effect the result.

You know, I moved to south FL 6 years ago. Amazing that this debate is still going strong. Here, no 150 foot rule, most places, no speed limits. Boats of every size, shape and type. Everyone seems to get along (sometimes tolerate) and enjoy boating. There are boneheads of course but's that's another topic :) There are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

[tis]

I had the test done 6 years ago, so things may have changed. There are a number of reasons., aside from mechanical changes.

1 - Equipment, calibration and the MP operator - I had to do 3 passes at WOT. The MP averaged those 3 passes to come up with a final DB number. So there is variability. Each pass was between 2 - 5 DB different.

2 - Proximity to MP boat - For the 3 WOT passes, I was asked to be 25 off of the MP boats transom (scared the &^%& out of me at 70 mph, and a bit dangerous I thought). A few feet either way can mean a difference difference between pass / fail.

3 - Weather - My first test was postponed due to fog. The MP told me that humidity, wind, etc can effect the result.

You know, I moved to south FL 6 years ago. Amazing that this debate is still going strong. Here, no 150 foot rule, most places, no speed limits. Boats of every size, shape and type. Everyone seems to get along (sometimes tolerate) and enjoy boating. There are boneheads of course but's that's another topic :) There are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

I think we did the test about 6 years ago too, maybe longer. It took us 4 or 5 times before we finally passed and it that was just barely a pass. So
I am a little paranoid now that we might get stopped but don't really want to ask for trouble by asking to be tested. WE haven't changed anything mechanically though.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I think we did the test about 6 years ago too, maybe longer. It took us 4 or 5 times before we finally passed and it that was just barely a pass. So
I am a little paranoid now that we might get stopped but don't really want to ask for trouble by asking to be tested. WE haven't changed anything mechanically though.

It took me 2 times, and I think my average just barley squeaked under. My fist pass was at 78 and each one got a little bit higher :eek: We were all stock (HP500s).

[tis]

It took me 2 times, and I think my average just barley squeaked under. My fist pass was at 78 and each one got a little bit higher :eek: We were all stock (HP500s).

I was in the boat with the MP. He was stern but the last time he thanked me for being nice. I asked him if people actually weren't nice to him despite the fact that none of us are happy to be there. He said you wouldn't believe how bad people are. I might not be happy but I was still taught to respect authority. I was sure glad it was finally over after a whole summer of marinas trying to get the boat right, a lot of money, and all those tests. I think we finally passed in Oct. when they did the last test of the year out there.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Funny thing, I had an older MP in my boat when we did the final round of tests (at Timber). It was a little hairy as we had to go WOT by the MP boat that was about 10' offshore, then take a hard turn to port to clear the point and rocks.

When we were done, the officer thanked me, smiled and said "now I know why you guys like these boats" :D

I hear you on losing time, I got stopped on a Saturday, and the test was scheduled for the following weekend. That was postponed due to fog. Next week failed and 3rd week passed. Lost almost a full month of boating.

My boat was stock, as delivered by the dealer in Winni. We had a cracked baffle (due to age). Fortunately, that was it.

[tis]

Funny thing, I had an older MP in my boat when we did the final round of tests (at Timber). It was a little hairy as we had to go WOT by the MP boat that was about 10' offshore, then take a hard turn to port to clear the point and rocks.

When we were done, the officer thanked me, smiled and said "now I know why you guys like these boats" :D

I hear you on losing time, I got stopped on a Saturday, and the test was scheduled for the following weekend. That was postponed due to fog. Next week failed and 3rd week passed. Lost almost a full month of boating.

My boat was stock, as delivered by the dealer in Winni. We had a cracked baffle (due to age). Fortunately, that was it.

We had no idea when we bought ours that it was loud. I just loved the look of the boat and had to have it. We never even tried it out. And the problem was they didn't really know how to fix it. They tried this and then that and then this and then that until it finally passed. I think they were trying to quiet it enough with a major deal. But it didn't work.

[RTTOOL]

Funny thing, I had an older MP in my boat when we did the final round of tests (at Timber). It was a little hairy as we had to go WOT by the MP boat that was about 10' offshore, then take a hard turn to port to clear the point and rocks.

When we were done, the officer thanked me, smiled and said "now I know why you guys like these boats" :D

I hear you on losing time, I got stopped on a Saturday, and the test was scheduled for the following weekend. That was postponed due to fog. Next week failed and 3rd week passed. Lost almost a full month of boating.

My boat was stock, as delivered by the dealer in Winni. We had a cracked baffle (due to age). Fortunately, that was it.

The standard used for the exhaust noise test is ISO 14509.:rolleye2: I cant believe that NHMP WOULD PUT a person in danger like that of a mister meaner.the test requires the boat to pass by the sound meter at a distance of 25 meters (82 feet). The boat must be traveling at least 70 kilometers per hour (43.5 mph) or maximum speed. To pass the test the average of the two highest results must not exceed 78 dB(A).

As a point of reference - the sound of water lapping the shore is 75-80 dBA.

[LIforrelaxin]

I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.



Well, despite all the education that was done about the switchable exhaust it appears that some people still don't seem to understand, that the exhaust noise test would be done with the the exhaust going through the hull.... not through the hub. If the Boat passes the noise test, the when the "silent choice" is on it is only going to be quieter.

IN SHORT THIS LAW REVERSAL HAS DONE NOTHING THAT MAKES THE LAKE NOISIER

This law making switchable exhaust illegal had been done with out the proper knowledge originally. Everyone I talked with, once the details where explained, understood, that this could only improve noise level etc. especially around public docks etc.

It funny that all I have is an 18' bow rider, not an oversized ocean racer, yet I still realized that the switchable exhaust law was just plain wrong.

[Webbsatwinni]

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

Not at all, I am pointing out that that post was what sent my positive post down a path that moved this to the Issues category giving it a negative tone.

[BroadHopper]

We had no idea when we bought ours that it was loud. I just loved the look of the boat and had to have it. We never even tried it out. And the problem was they didn't really know how to fix it. They tried this and then that and then this and then that until it finally passed. I think they were trying to quiet it enough with a major deal. But it didn't work.

It is a major deal. About a decade ago I receive a quote of about $4,000 to replace the DARPA silencers on my '88 with the newer nonswitchable exhaust. It involves replacing the whole through the hull unit including the headers. For now, it is quiet at WOT as tested a decade ago. Now I am worried about the testing at idle. There is not enough water flowing through the mufflers to quiet the sound.

[SIKSUKR]

Oh come on ApS.You love the sound of noisy aircraft.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16154&highlight=planes
I believe it is the "usual" Saturday Sukhoi acrobatic monoplane that does loops and spirals above Rattlesnake Island nearly every weekend. Yes, you do have to look up--and it helps to hear it first!

It could be a Yak--they're similar planes, even at 100 feet altitude. Both are equipped with the radial (round) engine that won WWII.

It is the Antonov's radial engine that makes the difference.

Like the sound that a Harley-Davidson makes from its own antique design lineage, a radial engine makes a very distinctive sound: If it's flying over Winnipesaukee, you can detect it.

The radial engine sound has even produced a cottage industry in CD recordings. (You can listen on-line!)
http://www.spitcrazy.com/sounds_of_aviation.htm
http://rareaviation.com/raenfrso.html

One recording company has even added music to the sound:
http://sounddogs.com/results.asp? (Vocals!)

I don't know of any similar recordings of any other engine.

Too, it is the sound of our WWII American "Warbird" legacy. These designs produced engines of 3600+HP from a single engine. Here's the radial engine principle.

Like some boats on Winnipesaukee, Harley-Davidson motorcyclists try to project a kind of "Warbird" image. (Paint jobs, graphics, decals, leather jackets and "character"). It's just ridiculous that our Warbird legacy of WWII could be matched or experienced through paint jobs and appearances: think "poseur". All the other engine sounds that strike my ear at Winnipesaukee are projected through noisy Detroit-Iron exhaust pipes, housed in expensive fiberglass jukeboxes.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5138&highlight=planes
of us lakeside will be treated to the sound of these Warbirds overhead that's been described as "felt", rather than "heard".

These engines are of a "radial" (round) design, and have a distinctive exhaust note. Instead of the "rap" of the related Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine, listen for the "chuh-chuh-chuh" of those big radials.

So the bottom line is if its a noise others like its not ok but if its noise you like its all good.

[Webbsatwinni]

Oh come on ApS.You love the sound of noisy aircraft.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16154&highlight=planes
I believe it is the "usual" Saturday Sukhoi acrobatic monoplane that does loops and spirals above Rattlesnake Island nearly every weekend. Yes, you do have to look up--and it helps to hear it first!

It could be a Yak--they're similar planes, even at 100 feet altitude. Both are equipped with the radial (round) engine that won WWII.

It is the Antonov's radial engine that makes the difference.

Like the sound that a Harley-Davidson makes from its own antique design lineage, a radial engine makes a very distinctive sound: If it's flying over Winnipesaukee, you can detect it.

The radial engine sound has even produced a cottage industry in CD recordings. (You can listen on-line!)
http://www.spitcrazy.com/sounds_of_aviation.htm
http://rareaviation.com/raenfrso.html

One recording company has even added music to the sound:
http://sounddogs.com/results.asp? (Vocals!)

I don't know of any similar recordings of any other engine.

Too, it is the sound of our WWII American "Warbird" legacy. These designs produced engines of 3600+HP from a single engine. Here's the radial engine principle.

Like some boats on Winnipesaukee, Harley-Davidson motorcyclists try to project a kind of "Warbird" image. (Paint jobs, graphics, decals, leather jackets and "character"). It's just ridiculous that our Warbird legacy of WWII could be matched or experienced through paint jobs and appearances: think "poseur". All the other engine sounds that strike my ear at Winnipesaukee are projected through noisy Detroit-Iron exhaust pipes, housed in expensive fiberglass jukeboxes.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5138&highlight=planes
of us lakeside will be treated to the sound of these Warbirds overhead that's been described as "felt", rather than "heard".

These engines are of a "radial" (round) design, and have a distinctive exhaust note. Instead of the "rap" of the related Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine, listen for the "chuh-chuh-chuh" of those big radials.

So the bottom line is if its a noise others like its not ok but if its noise you like its all good.

That sir was the best well researched post I have seen in awhile. The detail is impressive, no matter what side of the debate you are on. Well done!

[ApS]

If the Boat passes the noise test, the when the "silent choice" is on it is only going to be quieter.

IN SHORT THIS LAW REVERSAL HAS DONE NOTHING THAT MAKES THE LAKE NOISIER

This law making switchable exhaust illegal had been done without the proper knowledge originally. Everyone I talked with, once the details where explained, understood, that this could only improve noise level etc. especially around public docks etc.

While the change was initially presented as a logical solution—that exhaust noise would become "less-loud"—it hasn't worked out. Noise testing is now done at dockside. It was the first step in fooling the Legislature. A widely circulated photo of the Governor about to sign the new noise bill shows the Governor's face as grim. What'd he suspect?

Legalizing the "Captain's Choice" exhaust-cutout allows noisy boats to operate in either quiet or loud mode. For reasons that should be obvious, loud boats still plague Winnipesaukee's bays, harbors, inlets and coves.

Cutouts are widely banned in automobiles, but because noise travels greater distances over water, too many noisy boats have been tolerated on Lake Winnipesaukee for too long.

Lakers have "earned the right" to make the most noise, but they've got even louder competition.

If you've viewed the video of the race (that "wasn't a race") taken over the 2013 Labor Day Weekend, you should be scratching your head. At ½-mile away, the loud rapping exhaust noise of 15 "Performance" boats was recorded with the camera's microphone, which measures only 1.5 millimeters across.

"...Oh come on ApS. You love the sound of noisy aircraft..."
Sorry, I don't.

Every bright summer afternoon, I am drawn upwards to a white Waco biplane (radial engine) that flies over Wolfeboro's little airport, then directly over my Dad's house (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=140177&postcount=3). The Sukhoi (radial engine) that does weekend acrobatics over Rattlesnake Island can be heard doing Immelmann turns. No Rattlesnake Islander has made mention of that "noise"—and they're missing a show!

It's the sound of the aircraft radial engines that won WWII that I like—they're not "in your face", like a bunch of Harleys blasting up a road with straight pipes.

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

:look:

[Woodsy]

Lakers have no more right to be loud any other boat unless the boat built was built PRIOR to 1968 and they have been issued a PERMIT. You really need to brush up on the laws BEFORE you state your OPINION as FACT...

NH Boat Noise RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xxii/270/270-37.htm

Switchable Exhaust RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xxii/270/270-25.htm

Read RSA270:25 very carefully especially as it pertains to 270:25-II Note the wording....

II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.

By legal definition the switchable exhaust can make a boat already in compliance with RSA 270:37 quieter. It cannot allow a boat to exceed RSA 270:37.

Get your facts straight.... oh wait... facts don't matter to you.

Woodsy

[Phantom]

"Ding"...


another Round begins !

:confused:


.

[BroadHopper]

I guess I will buzz around APS house and do some short take off and landing out front just to get his goat. Those Lycoming engines with variable pitch pusher props can be quite loud. Oh and I am quite legal by the way!

[JDeere]

I guess I will buzz around APS house and do some short take off and landing out front just to get his goat. Those Lycoming engines with variable pitch pusher props can be quite loud. Oh and I am quite legal by the way!

So, that is your answer. Someone does not like your noise so you will cruise around the persons house. What a jerk.

[Seaplane Pilot]

So, that is your answer. Someone does not like your noise so you will cruise around the persons house. What a jerk.

Man, if that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is. :(

[JDeere]

Man, if that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is. :(

What else but jerk would you call a person who threatens to harass a forum member BECAUSE their opinion is that they do not like the noise from the performance boats.

You are free to opine as am I...but when someone crosses the line and talks about harassment then we are no longer in the world of opinions are we?

[Chaselady]

Lordy, Lordy, please send this mess back to the dungeon!

[Seaplane Pilot]

What else but jerk would you call a person who threatens to harass a forum member BECAUSE their opinion is that they do not like the noise from the performance boats.

You are free to opine as am I...but when someone crosses the line and talks about harassment then we are no longer in the world of opinions are we?

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. However, calling someone a "jerk' just because you don't like their post or their position on something is uncalled for in my opinion. If I were allowed to refer to everyone on here that have opinions, positions and agendas that I don't agree with, then the Forum would be loaded with them. However, that's not the case. Agreeing to disagree (respectfully) seems far more pleasant than unnecessary personal attacks and name calling.

[ApS]

"Harassment comes with the territory".

Agreed...Lake amphibians are the loudest single-engine aircraft over Lake Winnipesaukee, but only because stock Republic Seabees have nearly disappeared. :laugh:

Lakers have no more right to be louder than any other boat unless the boat built was built PRIOR to 1968 and they have been issued a PERMIT. You really need to brush up on the laws BEFORE you state your OPINION as FACT...

What FACT was that? Sure, one can be made legal by shuffling new conditions into the RSAs.

Thanks for the reminder for Lakers; now, how can I tell that the Laker going by has a "PERMIT"? How could it be any louder than ocean-racers? A Cobalt shouldn't be making the same volume of noise as a Laker with a "PERMIT". Compare these two short videos:

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/P8220011_zps2de4d346.mp4

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/P8150158_zpsba384928.mp4

Thank you for the references to the changes to the previous RSA. I see there's a yearly "creep" as to what newer engines may be allowed to create more noise:

II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.

By legal definition the switchable exhaust can make a boat already in compliance with RSA 270:37 quieter. It cannot allow a boat to exceed RSA 270:37. Get your facts straight.... oh wait... facts don't matter to you.

Woodsy
Are all the noisy boats in my Labor Day video now in compliance with the newest RSA?

I didn't think so. :rolleye1:

It appears the RSA was deliberately "crafted" to make noisy interruptions legal—beginning with the change from the former (and dangerous) 100+ MPH run-by tests.

Who would fault NHMP for copying New Jersey's recent dockside noise-testing standards? 'No point in risking an officer being run over at the very high speeds that accompanies the vast majority of "performance" boats.

This opinion still stands:
For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

[Woodsy]

APS...

Your last post illustrates my issue with you and others like you. You post your OPINION but state it as FACT. You have a right to your opinion, and I do respect that. However, I will call you out when you state your opinion as FACT...

Its not my fault you cannot comprehend/understand the noise laws... they are VERY specific and VERY enforceable! This is so simple a 5th grader could understand it!

The noise (Db) limits set in RSA 270:35 have not changed in OVER 20 YEARS! So regardless of your opinion, there has been no "yearly creep" or increase in the allowed exhaust noise. Boats manufactured after December 31, 1990 are subject to a STRICTER noise standard than those manufactured prior.

The noise limits for NH are NOT arbitrary numbers. They were derived from noise standards & statutes from both the Federal Gov't, other states & marine manufacturers (NMMA) and the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA). NASBLA are the ones behind the Safe Boater certification standards. To wit, the NH boating noise laws follow the NASBLA noise recommendations from 1989 to the letter! Hard to believe we have had the same noise laws for over 20 years.... the HORROR!

The switchable (Captains Call) exhaust allowed under RSA 270:25-II does not allow for anyone to exceed the noise limits set forth in RSA 270:35. In simpler terms, a boat cannot be in violation of RSA 270:35 regardless of the switchable exhaust. Sorry you are having a hard time understanding this VERY SIMPLE law.

But why let facts get in the way of your anti-performance boats BS??

As to the rest of your post...

You (or I) personally have no way of knowing if an old Laker has a permit allowing an exception to RSA 270:35 short of getting the bow numbers and asking the NHMP. I seriously doubt they have ever issued more than a handful of permits. I would think they tend to be nostalgic and look the other way when it comes to the old boats. (as most people tend to do)

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them. Given your propensity to sensationalize a subject, who is to say those videos are not edited to increase the sound level in order to prove your point?

Are you a qualified sound engineer? What was the ambient noise level (db) prior to those boats running by? What was the actual noise level (db) of the boats? Exactly how far away were you? What was their bearing relative to you? Where is the DB meter showing the readings in your video? When was it last calibrated? Etc etc...

The bottom line is... It is your OPINION that those boats in your videos were too loud. It is not however a FACT.

Woodsy

[SIKSUKR]

Oh boy.:eek::eek:

[Pricestavern]

Good God! Can't this be taken off-line thru PMs rather than subject us all to the finger-pointing, name calling, ridiculing, and down-right nasty tone this has spun down to? Please?

[LIforrelaxin]

Compare these two short videos:

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/P8220011_zps2de4d346.mp4

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/P8150158_zpsba384928.mp4



I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same....

I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no nosier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

I think that it is crazy that you spend so much time trying to prove your case. I am sorry that you vision of the lake, is not in tune with others. I have tried many times over the years to put Facts out before this forum on maters of noise levels. But the message seems to get lost....

Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter.... like wise in a at speed test, the boat is monitored to ensure the exhaust switch is appropriately set. Not to mention that muffling the sound will cause damage to the engine at full speed. Once again the limit is the based on the loudest exhaust method. switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....

The only thing I will agree with you on, is how are you to know when and if a boat is legal.... If you want to waste the MP time, and call in everytime you think a boat is over the limit that is your choice, and I am sure if possible they will check it out.... But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.

I live on a very busy portion of the lake, with boats racing from the LI bridge to the six pack all summer long..... yep once in a while it gets noise, but never in over 25 years, have I not been able to hold a normal conversation and have issue hearing people. Even when the neighbor 4 houses down starts his boat...with it thundering exhaust.

[Pineedles]

For all of those folks that don't like the arguments here, I offer the disclaimer placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

[Happy Gourmand]

For all of those folks that don't like the arguments here, I offer the disclaimer placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

[Pricestavern]

Never saw that disclaimer before since I usually go to the 'New Posts' section to check out the postings.

I'll leave you all to your cat fight. Enjoy!

[MGWillia]

Because I'm new and because I'm not a current boater (or even resident till later this year) I'm trying to learn from all of you about all the issues of the lakes and the region. And if there is more to be constructively said, I'm all for reading it. And though it seems to take dives into personal jabs, it does bounce back to interesting facts.I do have one question though. Is ground (or water for that matter) being made in the debate? I will admit that I get lost occasionally, but that could be my newbie ignorance. I have a feeling that there are some more factoids to be learned. Would it be possible to get a recap of where we are at? I mean if the discussion is making progress?

[SIKSUKR]

MGWillia, this forum had a very heated debate a few years back when a controversial speed limit was being pushed for Winni and ultimately passed. As Pineedles posted, the Webmaster had to make a special section because of all the members that were sick of the back and forth. It was his way to appeaze both participants and non participants. This thread has a little bit of that left over.FWIW

[BroadHopper]

As reported in the Weirs Times Flatlander article, and I can't remember the exact words, but basically there are folks that feels there are tooo many boats on the lake. They figured they can 'outlaw' boats. They are effective as the state published every year in the past decade that boat registration on Lake Winnipesaukee has declined. You can also attribute the decline on the current recession. If that's the case why has tourism increased in neighboring states? The Governor has this no brainer idea that the phrase 'Live Free and (fill in the blank)' will be an effective strategy for branding the state. Obviously its not working and is subjected to ridicule.

There are others that would like to turn Lake Winni into the quiet atmosphere of Squam Lake. Due to the commercialism of the big lake, I don't think that will ever happen.

There are talks among 'the chosen few' to claim the lake as a giant reservoir and limit the size of boats and the horsepower. I have not seen this in the legislative halls, but claiming the lake as a reservoir is possible as the surrounding towns get their municipal water from the lake.

What I am seeing is 'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!' This forum is a great example of this with all the 'boneheads stories' you read in the past few years. I boat on this lake since the 50's. In the past few years I avoid the weekends between and including Memorial and Labor Day. It is too crazy out there!

There! I open the floodgates!

[MGWillia]

As reported in the Weirs Times Flatlander article, and I can't remember the exact words, but basically there are folks that feels there are tooo many boats on the lake. They figured they can 'outlaw' boats. They are effective as the state published every year in the past decade that boat registration on Lake Winnipesaukee has declined. You can also attribute the decline on the current recession. If that's the case why has tourism increased in neighboring states? The Governor has this no brainer idea that the phrase 'Live Free and (fill in the blank)' will be an effective strategy for branding the state. Obviously its not working and is subjected to ridicule.

There are others that would like to turn Lake Winni into the quiet atmosphere of Squam Lake. Due to the commercialism of the big lake, I don't think that will ever happen.

There are talks among 'the chosen few' to claim the lake as a giant reservoir and limit the size of boats and the horsepower. I have not seen this in the legislative halls, but claiming the lake as a reservoir is possible as the surrounding towns get their municipal water from the lake.

What I am seeing is 'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!' This forum is a great example of this with all the 'boneheads stories' you read in the past few years. I boat on this lake since the 50's. In the past few years I avoid the weekends between and including Memorial and Labor Day. It is too crazy out there!

There! I open the floodgates!

Well, keep things safe till I get there. I may not be boating now, but I sure would love to when I get there! Hold the Fort!

[Chaselady]

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

The problem is when the thread keeps showing up in " New Posts " and someone opens it thinking there may be something new or worthwhile, only to discover the same old ranting, chest beating argument.
It would be nice if a thread that was exiled to the "special" place would stay there.
So many of the threads on this forum turn into personal beefs it gets hard to know what is safe to read.
And it's really annoying when you read something nasty when you didn't plan on it, then say something about it, and someone on the forum jumps in and basically tells you to not read it.

[Dave R]

Well, keep things safe till I get there. I may not be boating now, but I sure would love to when I get there! Hold the Fort!

Don't be discouraged, at its worst, Lake Winnipesaukee is still a wonderful place to go boating. We are really spoiled here, boating in other popular areas is vastly more hectic and challenging. Other than a few choke points, public docks and popular sand bars, the lake is very uncrowded, even on holiday weekends.

[DEJ]

For CL, the following disclaimer is placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

So CL if you visit the "lake issues" section be prepared to read something nasty. If those discussions annoy you then do not visit the lakes issues section, stay in the more friendly areas of this site, pretty simple and your blood pressure will be lower. :)

[Chaselady]

For CL, the following disclaimer is placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

So CL if you visit the "lake issues" section be prepared to read something nasty. If those discussions annoy you then do not visit the lakes issues section, stay in the more friendly areas of this site, pretty simple and your blood pressure will be lower. :)
I was talking about " New Posts". First page. Not the special section under forums from where you pulled that disclaimer.

[DEJ]

Not sure what you mean by New posts first page. In any event the Lakes issue forum can get nasty. If they offend you simply do not visit that forum was my message to you.:)

[MGWillia]

The good thing about following this thread this long is, (yes I know it's posted on the forums, but I just have been hitting new post) But, I now know, why Webbsatwinni was upset that his post was moved. I was like "Well, they are talking about boats, so doesn't it belong in the Boat Issues vs just in General"... Well Now I know. And that's a good thing. I like a lively debate. Good to know there is a place for it. Thanks

[Chaselady]

Not sure what you mean by New posts first page. In any event the Lakes issue forum can get nasty. If they offend you simply do not visit that forum was my message to you.:)

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

[DEJ]

I like a lively debate. Good to know there is a place for it. Thanks

Welcome, glad you get the intent of the lake issues section on this site. Some here still do not get it.

[DEJ]

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

I read it several times and was still confused. I only have one page and the lake issues is on the first page. Perhaps you have a different setting than I do. In any event the lake issues section usually has nasty posts, if that annoys you do not visit that section.

[HellRaZoR004]

CL is referring to the New Post tab at the very top of the page (left of the Search Tool).

CL, look at the forum column at the far right of that page. The Lake Issues forum will show up. Just don't click on threads in that forum. Or just ignore this thread entirely....:rolleye2:

ps. You'll also notice the following statement the next time you visit if you don't open threads "The threads below have not been updated since your last visit but still contain unread posts.". Eventually it will fall to a different page entirely :)

[DEJ]

Thanks, that explains it, I was not aware of the new posts feature. So there you have it CL, if you do not like what goes on in the lake forums section then please do not read those posts.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Wow, as I posted in earlier, there are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

Think I'm going to go boating :)

[Rusty]

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Kp50CSUKBbc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[MGWillia]

Well, looking for the upside... Hey, didn't that guy do a great job mounting that camera!?

[tis]

It's funny how the more controversial thread draw the most people. Like it or not, it's true. Still, I don't know why people have to be nasty to each other. Can't we disagree without being mean? I guess we can't, look at the world.

[Chaselady]

I agree. I am so done. Adios...

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x46/rebelrhoads/BeatingADeadHorseAni.gif

[Phantom]

NOW

That's funny & sooo appropriate PaugusBayFireFighter !!
(thanks for the morning chuckle)



.

[LIforrelaxin]

It bothers me that the threads are viewed negatively by so many. I for that I am sorry that they end up on this and other forums. But understand, for some of us, that report and write based on Facts, that this is the only place some of our opposition comes out and attacks us.

In many debates over sound, speed, boat size, etc. I have and will always being willing to sit down and talk with anyone, to understand their side of the situation. Yes as is human nature I have my side, and I will not be not easy change my view. But I will always listen, and look for compromises to give both sides satisfaction.

I have spent a great deal of personal time, money and effort into trying to make sure the boating laws, on Winnipesaukee are reasonable, and fair to all involved. I have had conversations with State Congressional Representatives, Marine Patrol officers, Marina owners, and even Boat owners that wanted to talk. Those talks have always remained positive and constructive. However on here, they break down, and those that break them down, never seem interested in sitting down over breakfast and having a healthy two sided conversation, knowing that I will not change their mind, nor will they change mine, but maybe just maybe we will find comprimise.

[LIforrelaxin]

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Kp50CSUKBbc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.

[Rusty]

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

[Woodsy]

Rusty....

You could not be more wrong..... WOW! More OPINION posted as FACT!

An accident like that can happen at any time on any lake! A speed limit has nothing to do with it.

The boat in question here most likely spun out due to driver error... this can happen in ANY boat while on plane. Let go of the steering wheel on some boats and the prop torque causes the boats to heel over hard... A gimble can break on the transom... lots of things can cause an accident like this.

But, to be truthful, spin outs are seen quite a bit in boats with a step in the hull. Lots of the newer small/mid sized family runabouts have stepped hulls as well as most modern hi-performance boats.

This video is a pretty good learning tool.... what the driver did right was have his kill switch lanyard attached. What the driver did wrong was just about everything else.. most importantly his passengers were not secure in their seats. The girl standing up is lucky she did not get seriously injured.

Again... if you are going to offer opinion as fact, you will get called out on it!

Woodsy

[BroadHopper]

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

[Rusty]

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

[Seaplane Pilot]

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.) :rolleye1:

[Happy Gourmand]

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.) :rolleye1:
How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

[Woodsy]

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

Rusty...

Walking is unsafe given the proper conditions.... Pretty much everything a person does during the day could be considered unsafe... take a shower this morning? VERY unsafe given the accident stats! Drive your car today? Driving your car is statistically very dangerous! Even if you did obey every single speed limit and traffic law! LOL

If you are for a speed limit, good for you. You are entitled to that OPINION! If you want to think that the accident in the video didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee because of a speed limit.. You are entitled to that OPINION!

If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

Where is the proof that NO accidents like that have happened since the speed limit? Where is the STUDY that the Lake is safer because of it? Where are the FACTS??

Oh wait... you don't have any! You just have your OPINION.

Sorry that just doesn't cut it for me...

Woodsy

[Rusty]

Everything I say is an opinion and everything you say is backed up with facts. Fair enough, have a good day.

[Woodsy]

Rusty...

I can back up every statement I have made... I can provide links and you can research it the same way I have. Its not an issue.

Its like political ads we are being inundated with... both sides have a story/opinion, but where are the UNBIASED FACTS??

Woodsy

[Seaplane Pilot]

How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

Read Post # 32 in this thread and you will find your answer:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18256&highlight=obama+president+history

[Webbsatwinni]

'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!'

Outlaw life here we come! Im preparation, does that mean that the MP and emergency crews will need to be restricted too? That could be fun!

[SIKSUKR]

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine:confused: about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

[LIforrelaxin]

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

This is not a Fact.... the definition of Fact from dictionary.com is:

noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law.. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.
Compare question of fact, question of law.

This is an opinion which is defined by dictionary.com as:

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.
the formal expression of a professional judgment:
to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.
Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.
a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.:
to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6.
a favorable estimate; esteem:
I haven't much of an opinion of him.


These definition are indeed FACT....

The accident that happened on Lake of the Ozarks is FACT

The idea that a similar accident will not happen on Winnipesaukee, now because of the work of WinnFABS, is opinion.... and what you allude too....

Please Note that in my post I have not given my opinion on weather or not a accident like that could happen on Winnipesaukee. Your opinion of me and my beliefs may lead you to believe that I don't think it could happen on Winnipesaukee, But the FACT is, I know that things can go wrong at any speed, and for a verity of reasons, something similar could still very easily happen on Lake Winnipesuakee.

My reasons however don't just look at one item that I have a prejudice against. As has been spelled out here, a violent pitch of a boat on plane going over waves could happen from the following:

- Driver inexperience
- Boat poorly trimmed
- boat poorly loaded
- misjudgement of condition even from experienced skipper
- mechanical malfunction

Once again none of this is opinion it is all FACT......... Based on what can cause a boat to erratically pitch......One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

[HellRaZoR004]

.....One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

That sums it up.

[gillygirl]

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine:confused: about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.
Oh, jeez. Now I know why Chaselady wants to leave. Couldn't you use a little more tact? Aren't you just whining about whiners?😯

[ApS]

​Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?
There's been a change. Perhaps the forum can stick with one issue, which was excessive boat exhaust noise. I'd like to see the electronic noise-dampening (http://www.gizmag.com/lotus-active-noise-control/11486/) pioneered by Lotus cars applied to noisy boats.

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Kp50CSUKBbc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I've been gone for 24 hours, and now we're on another old, and even violent topic! That said, the video's "comments" section includes the observation that one of the victims had said to "Hide the beer cans". :rolleye1:
I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom. :eek:

If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

But, it has happened recently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWJpFhGreXM). If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield. A collision here with Diamond Island resulted in the anchor striking a lakefront house! :eek2:

"Crashes" have been mentioned here before—along with the recommendation to "Take a Performance-Boat Skills Course offered by Tres Martin" (You may select your favorite lake). Only one member here has passed that course, as evidenced by at least three factual "self-sinkings" by "performance boats" on Lake Winnipesaukee. :rolleye2:

Back to "exhaust noise".

I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same.... I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no noisier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

My one point was that the noise law was changed to dockside testing—which changes everything. A $250 fine for noise violations is ludicrous: a weekend gas-up for ocean-racers goes for less.

Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter...
Then why has the NHMP reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as the follow-up alternative? I'd like to see a factual response.

Switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....
Same as above: the NHMP has reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as an alternative. Why that reservation? :confused:

But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.
Too often, those are "one-and-the-same". In coves, harbors, bays, and inlets that were formerly quiet, exhaust noise has only become an issue in the last 20 years.

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them.
My camera has no special powers, but the videos are intended to prove fact. It's up to individual viewers to decide if the point has been made.

This opinion still stands:
For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

[Webbsatwinni]

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Very one-sided, there were many accidents this year ranging from an older gentleman hitting a kayak near rattlesnake and a few prop injuries (What would Winfabbs do to help keep us safe from those?). There will always be accidents, some are stupidity, some accidents, etc. Is speed a contributing factor, yes, but so are untrained boaters, alcohol, on board distractions, etc.

Laying all of the blame for accidents on speed is a thin cover for other agendas. The reality is that most performance boat owners adhere to safety regulations and boat maintenance than the average boater, more to protect their investment than anything but it is what I have observed.

[LIforrelaxin]

​

I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom. :eek:


Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat.

​
But, it has happened recently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWJpFhGreXM). If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield.

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

APS I am not trying to be rude here, but you seem to be making a lot of conjuncture here, with no proof to back it up.

[Not to Worry]

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up.

Just saw this video for the first time. Golly it looked so much fun. His passengers seemed terrified and were holding on for dear life...until the captain way over estimated his abilities to handle the boat and speed. Of course had he been going 45 MPH......he would have avoided the accident.

[VitaBene]

Of course had he been going 45 MPH......he would have avoided the accident. Perhaps, but that is like saying if we all drove our cars at 10 MPH, we would avoid accidents.

This viral video is a case of an operator who was over-matched by his vessel and the conditions. His boat was made to run at speed in rough conditions, he was not.

If you ever get a chance take a run across the broads in a similar boat at 45 :) in 4' ers to see and feel the difference in control and ride compared to the average 21' boat on the lake.

[Ryan]

First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom.

I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event.

If it was in the "comments" section on Youtube, you really can't dispute that.

Youtube Comments = Facts.

[ishoot308]

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

[Webbsatwinni]

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

On the performance boat forums it was 51-53 mph, it's forum info, so not substantiated.

[Rusty]

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

http://archive.news-leader.com/interactive/article/20120906/LIFE06/309060047/BOATING-ACCIDENT-LAKE-OF-THE-OZARKS

The driver, Marvin Carter of Memphis, Tenn., was cited with careless and imprudent operation following the Aug. 24 incident. But when the video of the accident was uploaded to YouTube on Aug. 31, he received another citation.

“After seeing the video, he was charged with a seating violation,” said Sgt. Jerry Callahan of the Missouri State Highway Patrol’s Water Division.

Callahan said that Carter estimated he was traveling 70 mph when the accident occurred.

Brett Tintera, a cameraman with LakeTV who was on the boat, disagreed with that estimate and said that Carter had floored the boat moments before the accident.

“We were doing over 100,” said Tintera, who added in a phone interview Wednesday that he’s been boating for over 20 years and dealing with high performance craft for the last half dozen. “When you open the throttles up, you go way higher than 60-70 mph.”

[Not to Worry]

Perhaps, but that is like saying if we all drove our cars at 10 MPH, we would avoid accidents.

This viral video is a case of an operator who was over-matched by his vessel and the conditions. His boat was made to run at speed in rough conditions, he was not.



Watch the video and watch the throttle. He has it wide open and the result was that the boat, operator and his passengers could not handle it....least not without injury. If he had been going 45 which btw would have been to fast when he hit the wake but if he was he proably would not have fallen down like a drunk sailor. He was damn lucky he did not kill people.

And no....it is not saying that if you drove at 10 mph we would avoid accidents. It is saying that if operate within the speed limits we are safer then IF WE put the pedal to the metal. I think that is just common sense.

[BroadHopper]

Any vehicle is unsafe at ANY SPEED.

What's the point?

[DEJ]

Any vehicle is unsafe at ANY SPEED.

What's the point?

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

[Rusty]

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

I guess my only point as a "troll" is that as a general rule Lake Winnipesaukee should not see GFBL vessels going 70-100 MPH anymore.
The testing grounds for how fast a boat can go are over on this Lake.

[DEJ]

The testing grounds for how fast a boat can go are over on this Lake.

That is correct. The lake is now safe due to the 45mph day time and 30mph night time speed limit.

[Not to Worry]

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

I really have no issue on way or the other but sorry, common sense says the boat in the video was going way to fast FOR the CONDITIONS...otherwise it does not happen. A smarter captain would have slowed down versus going full throttle. This was an issue of speed. Not sure I understand why or how anyone can rationally argue differently, yet it seems that some do and I respect their opinion and do not feel the need to call them trolls.

[Not to Worry]

That is correct. The lake is now safe due to the 45mph day time and 30mph night time speed limit.

Lake is still a crazy place on a buys day BUT yes it is now safer than it was before!

[BroadHopper]

Lake is still a crazy place on a buys day BUT yes it is now safer than it was before!

And we still have one death too many. I don't see the lake any safer!

[ApS]

​Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat. "Working", but suffered bruised ribs, a broken leg, a ruptured disc and a broken wrist! He appears somewhat paler than at the beginning of the video. Maybe he was "resting his head" but had suffered four+ injuries, and vomiting can happen (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=79525&postcount=22) in traumatic events. I hadn't noticed earlier, but the gal in the white suit is behaving similarly. :eek:

It was left to the white-shirted "Fury-Racing" guy to shut the camera down.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1014201454243PM_zpsa33c0cbf.jpg

The "driver" suffered [skull] damage to the orbits of his eyes.

Details from another powerboat forum:

In addition to breaking a leg and a wrist, [photographer] Tintera says he ruptured a disc in his back and bruised some ribs. Among other injuries sustained by the passengers Tintera counts a broken back, a couple shattered eye sockets, and hips, feet, legs and arms all snapped as the boat shook violently back and forth before coming to a halt.

Tintera's footage has been seen over 3 million times at this point. He says Anderson Cooper invited him to appear on CNN, but he's too busted up to make the trip. The story also made Good Morning America, CBS News, the New York Post and a GIF made of the moment of impact appeared on Tosh.0's blog.

"Is it me or have Budweiser ads gotten kind of violent lately?" Tosh wrote.

Though Tintera understands the voyeuristic appeal of the footage, he's not exactly laughing. He considers himself lucky to be alive.

"If anyone would have been thrown out who knows what would have happened. Probably death," he says. "I'm very lucky to be talking and able to hobble around."

More eye-witness testimony... (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=874945&postcount=9)

The above participants in this seven-passenger "ocean-racer" were described as part of a Poker Run. :eek2:

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

I've seen this video before, but on a much sharper monitor: watch at 5:48—the foredeck hatch flies open. Shortly, the anchor flies out—still attached with chain—strikes the windshield frame—and disappears into the spray.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1014201452648PM_zps4ad98fc6.jpg

The Internet carries dozens of videos of the earlier seven-passenger crash, but in addition to several other worthwhile "boating adventures", this one carries a far better audio: (That is, if you like the sound of the engines followed by the clear sounds of multiple injuries.) :(

http://jukinvideo.com/videos/focus/Crashes-Boat/seven-person-boat-crash/147/4387/1/5rZXN0NTpxAlGx5AngVZhlu5ze5Cz74x

In addition to the Internet's many slow-motion segments, the GIF below is notable for fast-tracking the height of the action: watch the gal in yellow. Did she damage the windshield frame with her chin? Then bend the throttles with her ribs? :rolleye1:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/extremeg05/cc8a69e0.gif

Her sunglasses go flying, do a "bank-shot" off the windshield frame, and end up back in the boat!

:rolleye2:
.

[SIKSUKR]

Showing that video over and over to make your speed limit point is laughable.I could show you 1000 times as many of car crashes.Makes no sense.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6-0E2Nxtm6o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Not to Worry]

Showing that video over and over to make your speed limit point is laughable.I could show you 1000 times as many of car crashes.Makes no sense.


I guess this really is beating a dead horse but this video is clearly a result of speed...something they knew they were about to do since they videoed themselves. Simple physics would prove the slower (45 MPH) allows more reaction time. That is a fact not a conjecture.

The Speed Limit does make the lake "safer" but since we cannot outlaw boneheads and just everyday people who make mistakes that can have bad outcomes does not alter the fact the 45 MPH is safer than going 100 MPH. I had a situation where it was dusk and I did not see the boat in front of me...we were both on a collision course...he either did not see me or did not care...I saw the boat in time and it was no big deal...but I was only going 30 MPH...if I had been traveling at 90 MPH I would have made the news. Slower gave me much more time to react and correct my error of not seeing the boat sooner.

I do not really understand why we all accept speed limits on the road and skimobile trails yet somehow a common sense speed limit on the lake does not. I would assume the speed limit and noise limit are here to stay so maybe it is time to move on.

BTW....many sections of the inland waterway is heavily restricted in terms of speed...with many, many sections limited to no wake or minimum wake.

[VitaBene]

I had a situation where it was dusk and I did not see the boat in front of me...we were both on a collision course...he either did not see me or did not care...I saw the boat in time and it was no big deal...but I was only going 30 MPH...if I had been traveling at 90 MPH I would have made the news. Slower gave me much more time to react and correct my error of not seeing the boat sooner.


The other boater may have seen you perfectly well... which vessel was stand-on? I unfortunately, have been stand-on too many times and not been "given away" to and had to change my course. My friend was stand-on in Alton this summer and was hit hard on his port side.

The 'old "speed limit was essentially "reasonable and prudent for the conditions". The new SL says 45 or 30, however, either speed may be too fast for the conditions, but can easily give someone the defense of "but I was going the speed limit".

The SL is the SL, it is not going to change- we are beating a dead horse. But when people post a viral video of a poor boater, not on this lake, and try to make it something out of it, that it is not, people may respond.

[BroadHopper]

With the limited manpower you would think it make sense to beef up the DUI laws, and other laws in existence rather than run around the lake looking for speeders. In fact since the law has pass there seem to be more boneheads on the lake, probably because of this. We are actually on the wrong track!

Since Winnfibs told the legislature that the lake is safe, they really assume that and future legislation are not needed. I didn't make this up as I have talk to a number of them in the halls and that is the impression! Again false signals that actually make the lake more dangerous!

[LIforrelaxin]

I find myself in awe here, at where this thread has gone. I know I have played a part in that. But the bottom line is the bottom line.... We now have a speed limit law and it is what it is. We also have a noise law, and it is what it is....

If people break those laws they get into trouble if they are caught.

Don't say these laws aren't good enough, or try to defended them with scare tactics.

The battles over these trivial things has tainted the lake enough as it is. Everyone has their own opinion, and should be able to voice it. Make sure the Facts are Facts and not conjecture or opinion when you do so, and we will find that we all get along better.

[LIforrelaxin]

I've seen this video before, but on a much sharper monitor: watch at 5:48—the foredeck hatch flies open. Shortly, the anchor flies out—still attached with chain—strikes the windshield frame—and disappears into the spray.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1014201452648PM_zps4ad98fc6.jpg

.

APS, at 5:48 this video is over.... the scenes that you refer to happen between 1:00 and 2:00 mins.... I have watched several times, and I will agree that you do see the "anchor hatch" open, however I don't see an evidence of a flying anchor. This video is extremely poor quality, so it is incredibly hard to say anything concrete....

I can certainly conjecture, as you have done, but it is simply conjecture without any proof... hence I will not conjecture.... the fact of this video, is that the boat was in turbulent water, and the passengers and boat paid the price.

[fatlazyless]

Well......I have brought this up before and always it gets totally ignored.....so not having anything better to do and being totally bored out of my mind I will bring it up again.....

...what Lake Winnipesaukee needs is a "no speed limit zone" on Sundays from nine to noon out on the broads!


That could be a fun area to go watch as a spectator boat, supposedly safe from behind the boundary marker buoys, as the big super-duper big-money go-fasts roar back and forth real fast.... like at 107-mph, gps confirmed! .... what a super suggestion.....ladies & gentlemen.....puh-lease start your engines!!!!:laugh::D:laugh:

[Rusty]

If this Vermont candidate gets elected she wants all motor boats taken off Lake Champlain. At 1:35 into the video she talks about it. She's my type of candidate. :laugh:

<iframe src='http://player.theplatform.com/p/2E2eJC/EmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_hayes_cblock_141017_345655' height='500' width='635' scrolling='no' border='no' ></iframe>

[ApS]

Now I'm curious what could have happened at Lake Champlain to bring this issue to such prominence in Vermont politics.
:confused:

APS, at 5:48 this video is over.... the scenes that you refer to happen between 1:00 and 2:00 mins.... I have watched several times, and I will agree that you do see the "anchor hatch" open, however I don't see an evidence of a flying anchor. This video is extremely poor quality, so it is incredibly hard to say anything concrete....
You are correct: the video with the sharp images was located at ​http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155180898; however, that site is no longer available—"404".

I found references to the crash from a speedboat website that is now closed to public viewing of, the um..., speed, alcohol, drug, and moral "indiscretions" of their many members. :rolleye1: Other sites bemoaned the helicopters, as the need to show off for an aerial video camera appears too great to resist. :rolleye2:

The screenshot follows, with the areas highlighted in yellow of most interest:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1017201460508PM_zpscf6deca4.jpg

.

Which is not to say, they are not without humor in the same thread:

:D



http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1017201461121PM_zps3abf47c8.jpg

I can certainly conjecture, as you have done, but it is simply conjecture without any proof... hence I will not conjecture.... the fact of this video, is that the boat was in turbulent water, and the passengers and boat paid the price.

Again, the video and the accompanying narrative (above) is presented for members' perusal. Sometimes, proving a fact with videos and screenshots can't convince some viewers.
:look:

SIKSUKR, the driver that crossed 2½ lanes, then struck the rear of a stopped truck, and then was struck in turn by the dash-cam truck survived the ordeal! The torn roof of her car flew up to the truck's windshield, and appears below. A witness to the wreck also crossed over to the far right lane and stopped—to perhaps render EMT aid—or maybe leave a business card of his law firm.
:rolleye2:

Dash-cams have brought much scrutiny to inexcusable roadway behaviors. Here, we have only two boating videos, when there should be many more available showing the participant's attitude.

[VitaBene]

Now I'm curious what could have happened at Lake Champlain to bring this issue to such prominence in Vermont politics.
:confused:


You are correct: the video with the sharp images was located at ​http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155180898; however, that site is no longer available—"404".

I found references to the crash from a speedboat website that is now closed to public viewing of, the um..., speed, alcohol, drug, and moral "indiscretions" of their many members. :rolleye1: Other sites bemoaned the helicopters, as the need to show off for an aerial video camera appears too great to resist. :rolleye2:

The screenshot follows, with the areas highlighted in yellow of most interest:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1017201460508PM_zpscf6deca4.jpg

.

Which is not to say, they are not without humor in the same thread:

:D



http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreencapture1017201461121PM_zps3abf47c8.jpg



Again, the video and the accompanying narrative (above) is presented for members' perusal. Sometimes, proving a fact with videos and screenshots can't convince some viewers.
:look:

SIKSUKR, the driver that crossed 2½ lanes, then struck the rear of a stopped truck, and then was struck in turn by the dash-cam truck survived the ordeal! The torn roof of her car flew up to the truck's windshield, and appears below. A witness to the wreck also crossed over to the far right lane and stopped—to perhaps render EMT aid—or maybe leave a business card of his law firm.
:rolleye2:

Dash-cams have brought much scrutiny to inexcusable roadway behaviors. Here, we have only two boating videos, when there should be many more available showing the participant's attitude.
:look: headache. Cant we agree to disagree. We have plenty of laws but know plenty break them. We all have to be vigilant and careful.

[Seaplane Pilot]

If this Vermont candidate gets elected she wants all motor boats taken off Lake Champlain. At 1:35 into the video she talks about it. She's my type of candidate. :laugh:

<iframe src='http://player.theplatform.com/p/2E2eJC/EmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_hayes_cblock_141017_345655' height='500' width='635' scrolling='no' border='no' ></iframe>

That's perfect Rusty - see ya later! Vermont is nice this time of year. We'll all miss you. :laugh:

Bidding you farewell with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM-mKx8UIGs

[neutronxray]

It would be great to see the offshore boat racing return to Winni. It was great fun watching them from the water with the helicopter following then seeing it on tv later in the year.

[fatlazyless]

Ya knows that before the 30mph-night, 45mph-day, speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee became law in June, 2008, on just about the same day as a fatal, Diamond Island motorboat collision with the rocky island shoreline, happened at about 2-am on a rainy and foggy night....... the go-fast perfomance boaters were always out on the Lake Winnipesaukee water regardless the wind, rain, weather, day or night .....they were the hard core boaters who really wanted to be boating and were almost always out there.

Now-a-days, the number of boats and especially the number of performance boats on Winnipesaukee is no where near what it used to be before the speed limits. The personality of the lake has become a much quieter and less busy lake especially during the Monday-Friday, mid-week time.

So's, where did all the go-fasts go? Did they go to Lake Winnisquam which is the third largest NH lake and which has no speed limits, plus it has a good quality, free-to-use, state boat launch in Laconia behind Boulia Gourell Lumber on the Winnipesaukee River just about 100-yards north of Lake Winnisquam. Oh well ....where have they done gone to?

[BroadHopper]

Go fast boats may be gone but they are being replace by go fast 'toons. Ugly looking compare to the Arronow designed boats. You ask for it!

[Phantom]

I think the real answer is the Economic collapse contributed to their disappearance !

It is not cheap, by any standards, to not just only purchase one- the least of the expense - but to run them. Remember it was not long ago that we had $4.75/gal gas prices.

Look in Paugus Bay at the amount of Real estate available ... in my humble opinion -- another example of the same.



and Broadhopper --- totally agree ....... SERIOUSLY, a Toon with twin 300's ?


.

[pm203]

We are still here. The lake needs rooster tails to help distribute the water properly.

[VitaBene]

We are still here. The lake needs rooster tails to help distribute the water properly. A little aeration!!

[pm203]

So, this year I have seen 5 new Performance boats added to the lake!! 2 Cigarettes, a Fountain and 2 new Nortechs. And, I am sure that there are more. The lake is returning to its former greatness!!

[Webbsatwinni]

Oh no, I will be edited if this thread starts up again! But yes, great to see.

[Rusty]

So, this year I have seen 5 new Performance boats added to the lake!! 2 Cigarettes, a Fountain and 2 new Nortechs. And, I am sure that there are more. The lake is returning to its former greatness!!

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

[TiltonBB]

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

And, the Marine Patrol is not going out of their way to write speeding tickets. They realize, even if some other people do not, that speed never was the problem.

I love seeing the fast boats out there. They are enjoyable to watch and it is nice that everyone can enjoy the lake in their own way.

Live free or die!!

[BroadHopper]

According to marine patrol, speed has never been an issue! Only one ticket was issue when some bone head was speeding in the middle of the night! Something that any sane pilot would not do. The rest were for no wake, head way speed violations. Nothing new here.

There were a few citations giving when one goes the speed limit when it was not reasonable and prudent to do so. This foolishness was brought up many times but the supporters don't see this as a problem.

Having said that, I think the average speed on the lake may have increase! So has the number of violations and I don't see statistics that the lake is safer!

[LIforrelaxin]

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

I don't think many of the GFBL boaters ever really left the lake. What you are seeing is the effect of fuel prices, and the economy. Boating as whole was down on the lake over the last couple of years. Gas Prices where high and the economy was sluggish. The economy is better, still sluggish, but better, and gas prices are down.

Even with my fuel efficient little bow rider, I was doing less boating over the last several years. And when I was boating I was not burning fuel that I didn't need to burn by running around fast. This year fuel expenses are down, the weather has been beautiful the boat is getting used, and yes I am running the boat faster and burning more fuel....

It was unfortunate that the time of the speed limit law, down turn in the economy, and rise in gas prices all came together as a package. People credit the speed limit with changes that where not really brought on by the speed limit itself.

Bottom line... GFBL boats didn't go anywhere they didn't want or intend to go anyway.... Factors such as the economy and gas prices changed the way many people used the disposable income. Thus performance boats on the lake slowed down, and weren't out as frequently... I am sure if someone had access to registry of motor vehicles, they would find that the percentage of performance boats to non performance boats registered really hasn't changed.

It funny that people believe the speed limit has made any difference at all. I still see the same nut jobs out on the lake causing the same old problems, none of which ever had anything to do with speed. I don't see anyone going any faster or slower for that matter then I did before. They only thing the speed limit has changed is perception. People Perceive the lake as safer because there is a speed limit in place. The problem is the "Cowboys" that cause the real problems are still out there, and the problems they cause have never been linked to speed.

Sorry I will step down from my soapbox.

[VitaBene]

A friend just put a Cigarette Cafe Racer on the lake, can't wait to take a ride in it!

The economy is improving, I see lots of boats at the gas dock at Ambrose Cove (I'm at $750 in fuel for the season so far:) miles per smile are much more important than gallons per mile/hour!)

Hope everyone has a great weekend!!

[SIKSUKR]

Do we really have to go down this path again?How many speed related deaths on Winni do we know about?a couple maybe?Certainly have been dozens of non speed related including the latest by Governors Island.

[Seaplane Pilot]

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!

[AC2717]

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!i saw that being launched at Irwin on Sunday, and then saw it flying down the bay for its inaugural. I love it, want a ride in it, but don't want to own it

[ApS]

A little aeration!!

Developed in 1924...

Let's hear it for century-old discoveries.

:rolleye2:

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

i saw that being launched at Irwin on Sunday, and then saw it flying down the bay for its inaugural. I love it, want a ride in it, but don't want to own it
They are part of the group we will be having fun with this morning at the Easter Seals Poker Run at NASWA. Time to let the puppies run!

[Dave R]

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!

That boat is gorgeous. I spent all day Saturday at a friend's house on Rattlesnake and saw that boat go by at what looked like WOT. It was awesome. Those surface piercing props really kick up monster rooster tails.

I saw countless boats totally ignoring the speed limit and it was great to see that people have realized that it's totally unenforceable out in the Broads.

[ApS]

According to marine patrol, speed has never been an issue!

Only one ticket was issue when some bone head was speeding in the middle of the night! Something that any sane pilot would not do. The rest were for no wake, head way speed violations. Nothing new here.

There were a few citations giving when one goes the speed limit when it was not reasonable and prudent to do so. This foolishness was brought up many times but the supporters don't see this as a problem.

Having said that, I think the average speed on the lake may have increase! So has the number of violations and I don't see statistics that the lake is safer!
So the NHMP wasted both ink and trees to print this warning in its own "NH Boaters Handbook"?

:confused:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/P8200012-001_zpsqsxtat2p.jpg

[SIKSUKR]

So the NHMP wasted both ink and trees to print this warning in its own "NH Boaters Handbook"?

:confused:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/P8200012-001_zpsqsxtat2p.jpg

This is perfect and how speeding should be defined. I saw no mention of numbers but as to when any speed is illegal. Could be 20 mph or could be 100 mph depending on the situation.

[NH_boater]

It seems to me that the only place excessive speed causes a larger wake and potential damage is in a NWZ or at idle speeds, which seems to be a different discussion entirely.

[VitaBene]

So the NHMP wasted both ink and trees to print this warning in its own "NH Boaters Handbook"?

:confused:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/P8200012-001_zpsqsxtat2p.jpg
No, they did not waste ink or trees. They essentially reiterated what we knew all along.

You are easily confused.

[LIforrelaxin]

So the NHMP wasted both ink and trees to print this warning in its own "NH Boaters Handbook"?

:confused:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/P8200012-001_zpsqsxtat2p.jpg

I am not trying to stir the hornets nest here... But with that rule in the rule book, why is it we need a speed limit???

Just thinking out loud is all....

I will not be redundant and repeat SIKSUKR comment... But I think he sums it up quite nicely.

[Rusty]

You can go 200 MPH or even faster if you want to, but the law is this:

X. (a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore.
(b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful:
(1) 30 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and
(2) 45 miles per hour at any other time.

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXII/270-D/270-D-2.htm

[Skip]

....and gas prices remain stabilized, I believe you will see a steady return to the Lake of performance boats. The incorporation of the NHMP into the State Police didn't bring new resources or different powers, as some insinuated, it actually saved money by reducing redundant administrative staff. I have the utmost respect for the men and women at NHMP, but realize that they are understaffed and will remain so now and into the foreseeable future.

Just like on our highways and byways, most have figured out that it is fairly easy to significantly exceed speed limits ( and many other regulations ) with very little chance of being caught. There simply isn't enough, nor will there be, law enforcement on our waterways to prevent it.

Whether you are an ardent supporter or totally against the speed limit law, be prepared to see more folks driving the Lake like they've driven our roadways for years. With not enough resources to effectively enforce the new regulations, it was inevitable. Me? I hope the economy continues to strengthen and gas prices remain stable! ;)

[LIforrelaxin]

You can go 200 MPH or even faster if you want to, but the law is this:

X. (a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore.
(b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful:
(1) 30 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and
(2) 45 miles per hour at any other time.

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXII/270-D/270-D-2.htm

Rusty, we all know what the law is... None of us are questioning that...

[Rusty]

Rusty, we all know what the law is... None of us are questioning that...

People are forgetful at times so I thought it would be a good idea to refresh their memory. ;)

[SIKSUKR]

Welcome back Skip. Very well written post.

[BroadHopper]

There are a good number of boaters that actually believe the lake speed limit ruling actually supersede the excessive speed ruling. They will argue to the moon, this is so. My interpretation is that the excessive speed ruling prevails when the speed is less than the limit. Correct me if I am wrong but it is common sense.

Mr Pilliod, the bill primary sponsor actually convince the speed limit supporters that the enforcement is and will be there to enforce the law. Kind of a bold statement when the truth says otherwise.

Skip is right, administrative cost has been reduced, but staffing remains the same, actually the staffing is less today than it was when the SL became law. Somehow we need to convince the legislature the lake is no more safer today than it was before the SL law. The gold dome is convinced our waterways are safe.

[Woodsy]

I have to chime in here...

The lake was NEVER unsafe.... considering the number of boats of all types sharing lake Winnipesaukee.. we have VERY FEW to the point of almost 0% boat collisions... the speed limit has done nothing to add to nor detract from the safety of the lake. It is a "feel good" law passed by people who didn't like performance boats.

IMHO this lake is as safe as it is for lots of reasons...

The first and most important being the 150' rule... no place else has this rule regarding boat vs. boat spacing on the open water. Even if they come well within 150' of you, there is very little risk of collision.

The Boater Safety Certificate has also helped... although some might argue otherwise.

If people think Performance boats left.. well they are sadly mistaken. The poor economy more than anything else curtailed their use. Not rules, not regulations.

Woodsy

[brk-lnt]

The first and most important being the 150' rule...


I disagree with this, and my reason is essentially summed up in your next statement:

no place else has this rule regarding boat vs. boat spacing on the open water.


There are 4 primary things here as it relates to this and safety:

1) A rule (150' separation) that is effectively unique to Winnipesaukee
2) Boaters on the lake with no clue at all to proper "rules of the road" and boat operation
3) Boaters on the lake who are familiar with boating, but primarily due to experience on other bodies of water
4) Boaters who are mostly limited to Winnipesaukee but are seasoned and knowledgeable.

Every boater essentially falls into one categorization of 2, 3 or 4. The problem is that you never really know WHICH category they fall into. If someone falls into category 3, I don't care if they come closer than 150' to me, as long as they are overall operating safely and carefully. Someone in category 4 will probably generally try to stay 150' away, but might violate that rule in tight spaces, etc. Someone is category 2 is totally unpredictable.

So, I can't rely on other boaters to maintain a 150' separation on their own, and if someone gets too close I can't tell if they do so out of ignorance of the rule, incompetence, or something else.

There are also lots of people unable to accurately judge 150', so they come too close, or think I am too close, or they veer too far off-course and make their route seem erratic when you are trying to gauge how/where your two vessels will cross.

I don't see the 150' rule as being reliable enough to create any real safety aspect, to me it just seems like another feel-good law with good intentions but bad effect.

[Woodsy]

Brk...


I agree on your classification of boaters... but I disagree with your assessment of the 150' rule.

The one thing that needs to be considered with your assessment is the percentage of the different classifications...

1) A rule (150' separation) that is effectively unique to Winnipesaukee

Its actually Unique to NH (this changes the percentages)

2) Boaters on the lake with no clue at all to proper "rules of the road" and boat operation.

This is probably the lowest percentage of boaters on the lake... at best 3-5% These are your renters and newbies. I think they are the biggest violators, but they are the smallest % of boaters on the lake.

3) Boaters on the lake who are familiar with boating, but primarily due to experience on other bodies of water.

This is another low percentage group... probably 4-5%% We do not see a lot of out of state boats on Winni. Because they have experience, they know most of the navigational rules and the probably have some knowledge of the 150' rule. No doubt they tend to shave the distance more often than not because their experience leads them to believe there is no danger if you are closer than 150'


4) Boaters who are mostly limited to Winnipesaukee but are seasoned and knowledgeable.

This makes up the majority of the boaters on Lake Winni... a good 85% at least. Group 4 is why the 150' rule works... Group 4 is the reason there are very few Boat vs. Boat collisions on Lake Winnipesaukee. They are the majority and they know the rules.

I personally don't get too twisted when someone comes within 150' while on plane unless they are danger close... within 50'. I know of the 150' rule and I am very aware that regardless of the rules, or who violated the rules... The 1 CARDINAL rule is "the Capt is responsible for the safety of the vessel & crew". So in crossing situations, if it looks like the guy doesn't know the rules... I will slow down, alter course slightly or come to a complete stop if I have to.


Woodsy

[SIKSUKR]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DLRwkrBZzsA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[pm203]

So, it looks like Winnfabbs or some other similar sorry group of individuals are not happy that the performance boats are back and have resorted to routinely bothering the Marine Patrol by calling in to complain about noise and performance boats once again. What a crock.

It must be tough to sit at your waterfront home and have to listen to a powerboat pass by. I really feel sorry for you and your outlook on life if that is how you feel.

Its just too bad that the MP has to waste their time to placate the selfish needs of the few that do not know how to get along with others or enjoy their life without complaining.

[Rusty]

So, it looks like Winnfabbs or some other similar sorry group of individuals are not happy that the performance boats are back and have resorted to routinely bothering the Marine Patrol by calling in to complain about noise and performance boats once again. What a crock.

It must be tough to sit at your waterfront home and have to listen to a powerboat pass by. I really feel sorry for you and your outlook on life if that is how you feel.

Its just too bad that the MP has to waste their time to placate the selfish needs of the few that do not know how to get along with others or enjoy their life without complaining.

The only logical answer I can give you is that some alliances don't give up and others do.

BTW it is called "Winnipesaukee Family Alliance for Boating Safety" (WinnFABS).

[BroadHopper]

Whatever happen to WinnFIBS? They may be dormant but my state representative received a phone call from someone who claim he is WinnFIBS. The person was canvassing the possibility to limit the size of boats and motors under the technicality that Lake Winnipesaukee is a reservoir. All surrounding towns get their water from the lake. Due to the tourist based economy my representative don't think it is feasible to legislate.

[Winnisquamer]

Whatever happen to WinnFIBS? They may be dormant but my state representative received a phone call from someone who claim he is WinnFIBS. The person was canvassing the possibility to limit the size of boats and motors under the technicality that Lake Winnipesaukee is a reservoir. All surrounding towns get their water from the lake. Due to the tourist based economy my representative don't think it is feasible to legislate.

Can we put a limit on fun too? Should make a phone call to the fun police. What a nonsense idea to limit those boats regardless whether you are for or against them. What happened to live free or die?

[ApS]

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine:confused: about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

I've changed my opening tab to "Lake Issues": those threads appearing on the screen would be the threads to avoid where controversy is an issue.

"New Posts" would be your next stop. :)


APS, at 5:48 this video is over.... the scenes that you refer to happen between 1:00 and 2:00 mins.... I have watched several times, and I will agree that you do see the "anchor hatch" open, however I don't see an evidence of a flying anchor. This video is extremely poor quality, so it is incredibly hard to say anything concrete....

I can certainly conjecture, as you have done, but it is simply conjecture without any proof... hence I will not conjecture.... the fact of this video, is that the boat was in turbulent water, and the passengers and boat paid the price.

​​•​ ​One of Tres Martin's [performance-boat school] instructions is, "Never let your boat land on its side." (A very strange admonition to most of Lake Winnipesaukee's family boaters). :eek2:


​​•​ ​With this thread "renewed", an oversight needs to be addressed:

While the anchor did fly out of the hatch, it didn't disappear into the mist, as I wrote. :o

For several frames, the anchor can be seen being towed behind—hydroplaning—in the boat's wake.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/chipmunkwhisperer/Fullscreen%20capture%205292015%2091705%20PM.bmp_zp stiectcbv.jpg

:look:


.