Groton Wind Farm

[vmartino26]

I don't know if this is on point as it isn't directly a "Lakes Region" issue but I'll give it a try. I am totally opposed to the Northern Pass project which continues to move sideways as an issue for now, but if you happen to be in the Plymouth area on Tenney Mountain Highway and look just beyond Tenney Mountain over to the town of Groton, what you'll see on the horizon may surprise you as it did me and my wife. A 24 wind turbine farm is being constructed in the town of Groton. I believe 12 of the turbines are now up. The project is scheduled to be completed in the January 2013 time frame.

My unerstanding is that the power generated from the wind turbines will be dumped into the new england power grid, and the town of groton will receive significant tax money.

It's a stunning site as it changes forever the view of Tenney Mountain. I guess residents of the area were opposed to the farm going forward, but the NH court system threw their case out.

Just wondering if anyone has seen the turbines on the horizone and what your thoughts are. Is this the future?

[BroadHopper]

To top things off, the wind farm is foreign owned and the power is actually going to the southern states. While everyone is focusing on the Northern Pass, this issue snuck through. Now that it is taking notice everyone in the region is p.o.

What other projects came through under the Northern Pass smoke screen?

[HellRaZoR004]

I actually like the looks of these...think they are a great feat of engineering.

[fatlazyless]

Looks like the 24 turbines are up on a ridge just to the west of the Plymouth Wal-Mart, just beyond the closed Tenney Mt ski area, and close to the Rumney Rocks rock climbing area in the White Mountain National Forest.

Wonder if the turbines can be seen from the Wal-Mart parking lot? COuld be very scenic what with the sun setting behind the turbines as seen from Wal-Mart?

Anyone seen the big, new, huge wood utility poles running along Tenney Mountain Highway, and Highland Ave in Plymouth recently installed to carry the electro-magnetic energy from the turbines to the power line close to Route 93?

[JDeere]

Funny, I just noticed them yesterday. What an eyesore.

[IslandRadio]

Funny, I just noticed them yesterday. What an eyesore.

Same here - just noticed them yesterday (Monday). Never saw them before. Maybe it is because the air was unusually clear, and it was a very nice sunset.

Quite visible from the West side of the Rattlesnake Island Peninsula.

[patman]

I don't know why, but...cell towers bother me...windmills don't. There are a bunch of windmills that have gone up in the Bethel/Rangely ME area, and they looked good to me...

[fatlazyless]

www.town-of-groton.com/grotonwind/Groton...

Paying for half the town's yearly budget probably goes a long way to enhance the view of the wind turbines as viewed from the town!

[Happy Gourmand]

Windmills or oil rigs......make mine windmills, please.

[magicrobotmonkey]

I actually like the looks of these...think they are a great feat of engineering.
I agree, I don't know why everyone complains about them. If I had to choose between a ridge covered in wind turbines or a big smokestack, that's not much of a choice...

[NoBozo]

Windturbines are great when they work. The BIG ones are very difficult to maintain because they are way up there on a tower. We have a Three Year Old ($3M) town owned 1.5 MW turbine. The nacelle is 188 feet above ground. Two months ago the gear box failed.

To fix it, the rotor disc has to be taken down, then the nacelle. The crane cost is about $10,000 a day+ set up costs, because it's a special crane for big heights and weights. The quickest way to fix it is to replace the large gearbox (30,000 pounds) with the nacelle on the ground. The gear box is rumored to cost +/- $450,000.

The Canadian company that built it went bankrupt two years ago..the 10 year warranty went "PooF". The town has no Spare Change so the turbine sits there doing nothing. It WAS a sight to see when it was running.

There is No Free Lunch :look: NB

[IslandRadio]

They are quite visible from Rattlesnake Island. Here's what things looked like this (Tuesday) evening in the sunset.

The first picture is a normal view. The 2nd is zoomed in.

Beautiful sunset with Diamond Island in the foreground.

[barefootbay]

Windmills raze hell with the bird population which is all ready in severe decline .

[Hermit Cover]

With gasoline prices so high....we need to " drill Baby drill"...anywhere, everywhere, ....then sell to the highest bidder...great profits for the oil companies and gas prices will go down....Won't they??:emb: Get that oil pipeline finished...will produce zillions of new jobs. Or we can just put up some more of those great big windmills...

[BroadHopper]

Windmills raze hell with the bird population which is all ready in severe decline .

Really? Where's all the frigging Canadian Geese coming from?

[wifi]

Really? Where's all the frigging Canadian Geese coming from?

Actually, the wind farm is owned by the Canadians, and they are running them like giant fans, sucking the geese from Canada and blowing them our way :eek: :eek: :eek:



:laugh:

[Dave R]

Windmills raze hell with the bird population which is all ready in severe decline .

I am no expert, but around here in southern NH, the bird population seems to be thriving/exploding/diversifying. I'm seeing huge numbers of a huge variety of birds lately.

[tis]

Saco, Maine put up a windmill maybe three years ago and it didn't do what it was supposed to do so now it is for sale.

Is THAT where the geese are coming from, Wifi?????:laugh:

[fatlazyless]

From the photos above, it seems like the wind turbines are so far away and so relatively small that they can hardly be seen except through a long distance lens, and besides that, they turn a totally undeveloped, wooded mountain ridgeline high up in Groton, NH, into a wind farm that makes electro-magnetic energy that goes straight into the national grid system. What's not to need about that?

Wind turbines seem to work just like a sailboat as both put the wind to work.


Locals used to laugh and say something like " ..... Groton......what's in Groton ......there ain't nuth'n in old Groton because everything is rotten in Groton ........."

That Groton wind farm is a pretty good, amazing energy engine if you ask me, and I hope it works out good!

[kchadw]

I have seen these turbines and I really have mixed thoughts about them...If they work, and continue to work ...then I guess, it will be ok for many...

I spend time each year back home in N.H. and this year the max so far at five months...in the Lincoln area....What really upsets me is, each year I come north and I see more and more cell phone towers on tops of mtns...A beautiful picturesque view, ruined by cell phone towers...Are they really necessary...People seemed to be adjusting to the lack of service when they weren't there...
I travel through Franconia several times per week..NO, AT&T service in that area...soooo, if I really need to use the cell phone, I wait a few miles ...and of course, I always get calls while in the dead area...so it goes into my list to call back later....I adjust....! Why couldn't these towers be built in the area of the present power lines...or on the edge...the view is already blighted there...All I can figure is, there must be money involved...follow the money trail...as the saying goes...
They can always use fake tree branches on them to make them look like fake hugh trees...that's what they do in sunny Fla....What a rediculous sight that is...

[jrc]

Leaving aesthetics aside, the scary thing about wind farms is economics. It's impossible to tell if they are viable as a long term econonic investment. Today's politics and goverment cloud the real math with magic money, rainbows and unicorns.

Why does the math matter? Because if they don't make enough money to cover their ongoing maintenance, eventually we will all be left looking at broken dangerous hulks owned by long bankrupt investors.

[AC2717]

They can always use fake tree branches on them to make them look like fake hugh trees...that's what they do in sunny Fla....What a rediculous sight that is...

THere is one like this in Louden on Route 106, I almost did not see it, they did a decent job of hiding it but could have been better, it was right on the eds of a tree line - a cell tower that is

[limin]

Windmills are a farce. They don’t supply consistent power. I own almost 100 acres in Groton. The natural beauty of the area was its attraction before the windmills started. Now, it's destroyed for our lifetime. My property abuts the Cockermouth State Forest, in which you can hike to Bald Knob and Mount Crosby and view the surrounding mountains and Newfound Lake. Now when you hike to the summit, you look at windmills on Fletcher and Tenney Ridge. Some of the windmills are located on land leased from Green Acres Land Company. Jane Difley, president of the Society For The Protection Of NH Forests worked on an easement funded through the state of NH and the Forest Society to secure 3.6 million dollars in federal funding to buy a conservation easement on land owned by Green Acres Woodlands, a private timberland owner. She took no stance on the issue of windmills when it was being fought, even though the Cockermouth State Forest is a Society property, which abuts the Green Acres land, and the windmills directly impact the Cockermouth view shed. William Wadsworth, who donated this beloved 1003 acres to the Forest Society, is rolling in his grave. She is fighting Northern Pass tooth and nail and lobbied to protect the view shed surrounding Mount Monadnock in Jaffrey. She has no problem with 24 - 398 foot wind turbines, but is fighting 130 to 185 foot electrical poles. The Newfound Audubon Center has a sanctuary located on the northern end of Newfound Lake in Hebron, within a short distance from these turbines. Propellers chop birds.

I attended the final state Site Plan Review Meeting for the project in Concord last spring. The review committee spent most of the meeting questioning their lawyer to cover their butts and quizzing if any repercussions could be thrown back at them for approving the project. The only condition the committee upheld was a bird mitigation study. Only one Selectmen from Groton attended and he showed up late.

Iberdrola Renewables LLC is a division of parent company Iberdrola, SA, Spain’s #1 energy group, which received several million dollars from our government to construct this wind farm. They prey on small towns, with simple-minded officials, with small budgets. Just ask the residents of Fairfield, NY where the same company built the wind farm known as Hardscrabble Wind Farm. Windmills are literally in resident's back yards and they experience shadow flicker through their windows and interference with electronic devices. Iberdrola refused to pay a cement company they hired in construction due to issues with product quality. In turn, the cement company placed liens on property owners in Fairfield leasing land to Iberdrola for the windmills. Now, their real estate is frozen and they can't sell it.

It's a win win for Iberdrola at the expense of quality of life for humans. Groton didn’t need the tax revenue. We have little infrastructure. The supposed 20,000 homes this will supply power to don't care where their power comes from. Wind power can't be stored, so it's unreliable. After the wind farm was approved by the state, Iberdrola brought up doubt if the power lines were adequate enough to handle the load. That is why the very large poles are now being installed on Tenney Mountain Highway, much to people’s surprise. Not only are they large and imposing, there are two for every old one. The company plays games and hid this fact during the approval process.

There is a history of windmills causing severe fires. The roads to maintain the windmills are accessed from the Plymouth side, not Groton, so the burden of fire danger falls on the town of Plymouth. The land is rugged in the surrounding area and the potential for a devastating forest fire exists. I am worried about my property because I am so close.

Probably the largest tragedy of all is the visibility of these eyesores from pristine Newfound Lake. And now, I’m reading they can be viewed from Rattlesnake Island. Don't think it can't happen in your backyard. Consider lobbying your town to adopt an ordinance against windmills.

[Lucy Goose]

I have seen these turbines and I really have mixed thoughts about them...If they work, and continue to work ...then I guess, it will be ok for many...

I spend time each year back home in N.H. and this year the max so far at five months...in the Lincoln area....What really upsets me is, each year I come north and I see more and more cell phone towers on tops of mtns...A beautiful picturesque view, ruined by cell phone towers...Are they really necessary...People seemed to be adjusting to the lack of service when they weren't there...
I travel through Franconia several times per week..NO, AT&T service in that area...soooo, if I really need to use the cell phone, I wait a few miles ...and of course, I always get calls while in the dead area...so it goes into my list to call back later....I adjust....! Why couldn't these towers be built in the area of the present power lines...or on the edge...the view is already blighted there...All I can figure is, there must be money involved...follow the money trail...as the saying goes...
They can always use fake tree branches on them to make them look like fake hugh trees...that's what they do in sunny Fla....What a rediculous sight that is...

I couldn't agree more!

[Altonbayicefishingfool]

I've never heard of a windmill causing a fire...hmmmm

[ApS]

I've never heard of a windmill causing a fire...hmmmm

I guess they happen...

http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/wind_turbine_fire.jpg

[IslandRadio]

I've never heard of a windmill causing a fire...hmmmm

There are a lot of YouTube videos showing various windmill failures and fires. When they do fail, the results are often spectacular. Many times the result of brake system failures - high wind puts the windmill out of control and eventually the whole thing blows apart.

Of course, conventional electrical systems fail all the time. Heck, there was just a fire on Sleepers Island earlier this year (or last year, I can't remember) caused by an electrical distribution system failing. I also had a similar problem at my own house about 5 years ago. Transformers explode, etc. It's just the way it is. Nothing is completely foolproof or failproof.

[NBR]

It will be years before we know the cost effectiveness of wind power and if it is not fiscally positive the companies will be bankrupt and we will have the eye sores standing for decades.

[NoBozo]

Todays modern computer controlled wind turbines "Feather" their blades as wind speed increases, and fully feather at about 45 MPH of wind speed. When fully feathered the blades will not spin..only idle this way or that in the gusts. The computer keeps the fan disc/nacelle facing into the wind.

A typical 1.5 MW turbine will have a max rotation of 18-19 RPM. The gearbox will Step Up that RPM at a ratio of 1:100..or 1900 RPM at the generator. Smaller turbines spin faster and larger ones spin slower. A 2.0 MW turbine might spin at 14-15 RPM.

An important factor in RPM is limiting "Tip Speed" of the blades. A 1.5 MW turbine applys about 2000 HP to the generator at max load. :) NB

[Misty Blue]

I do not know what the fiscal situation is in Groten but I have a feeling that is is a bad deal for a tourist town.

I picture this...

A company builds some wind turbines on Red Hill. (If the land were available) The land is in the middle of nowhere and is cheap. Not much of a tax gain for the town.

After construction there are very few jobs generated (no pun intended) and I can see no spin off jobs generated in the town either.

The value of homes on Lake Kanasaka would have to drop. Most are there for the lake and the view. A drop in property values means more taxes for everyone in town.

I could be way off here but I can't see working in a place that depends on tourist trade.

BTW...I work for a company that is the largest producer of wind power in the world and as an engineer I have to admit that I think that they are kind of cool. Me bad.

Misty Blue

[NoBozo]

We have a 675 Kw Vestas in town on the grounds of a private school. It was there years before our "Town Owned" turbine and still runs every day without any issues that anyone is aware of.

The Town elected to go for the low bid. We got a $4M turbine for $3M. BTW the siting of our Town turbine is excellent. It's on the highest hill on the island and can be seen for Miles through 360 degrees in ANY direction. Frank...? "How come that thang don't RUN"..? :D NB

[BroadHopper]

I hear folks over at NewFound Lake can see the turbines and the town is asking why they weren't involved in the preliminary hearings.

I also hear you can see the turbines from Rattlesnake Mountain in Holderness. The folks there are upset too!

My guess is that there was p*** poor planning up front. If there were plans to spoil the horizon as far south as Winni and the Paul Bunyan poles on Tenney Mountain highway and it was not given, they should be stop before anything further developed.

What ever happen to the first wind farm on Crotched Mountain? I was told the feds and state bankrolled that project and it was eventually bankrupted. I was told the towers and equipment were vandalized and eventually taken down at the state expense. Concrete posts are the only thing left.

[fatlazyless]

Driving north or south on Rt 93 just south of Exit 26 in Plymouth, as well as when you get off at Exit 26 and drive west onto Rt 25-Tenney Mountain Highway, you get a good look-see at about a dozen of the 200' high towers and the lengthy three-blade propellers attached to each tower as viewed from aproximately five to ten miles away.

I have always thought that NH has incredibly expensive monthly electric bills and supposedly none of the wind turbine electricity is being used in NH, with it all gong to down south somewhere. .......oh well.......
.

[NoBozo]

Didn't want to bring this up. FLL made me do it. NH already EXPORTS Power. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_New_Hampshire

[Belmont Resident]

Didn't want to bring this up. FLL made me do it. NH already EXPORTS Power. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_New_Hampshire

NH generates 100% of it's own power, all while having some if not the highest electric rates in the nation.
So any attempt by power companies to bring wind or towers to our state is just a means to bring cheaper power to the southern states, it does nothing at all for NH. And all those tax savings eventually go away when they apply to the Federal Government for a tax abatement and usually get it.

This how screwed up N-star is, they sell electricity to their customers in Canada at say .10 per unit, if they get the power lines to go through NH they are promising to sell power to the US at .08 per unit. the Canadians are up in arms over this and against the northern Pass project as well.
The numbers are only used for example.

Oh and good ol boy Romney has a personal interest in the Northern pass project.

[wifi]

... FLL made me do it...

...Oh and good ol boy Romney ....

Is this thread now becoming another political advertisement ?

[SAMIAM]

Wind farms are an ugly scar on our beautiful mountains.A total waste of money,as was Obama's billions wasted on bankrupt solar power.
Natural gas is clean and plentiful.Wind and solar power never got a plane off the ground

[SAMIAM]

Wind farms are an ugly scar on our beautiful mountains.A total waste of money,as was Obama's billions wasted on bankrupt solar power.
Natural gas is clean and plentiful.Wind and solar power never got a plane off the ground

[fatlazyless]

To really really really understand and comprehend the need and use for electro-magnetic energy ......aka......"electricity" ...... you must go for one day, 24-hours, with absolutely no electricity in your home or business by turning off the power at your main panel.......just to experience the importance and use of electricity in your daily life. It will give you a very serious appreciation for electricity.


If the Groton wind farm proves out good, then maybe similar wind turbines could be built in the very nearby mountains in the White Mountain National Forest in some of the less visited spots like Mt Isolation or Mt Tecumseh. Mt Tecumseh already has many ski lift towers so why not build some wind turbine towers too?

[gokart-mozart]

Does shovelling up all the dead birds count as a green job?

[Cobalt 25]

Wind generators causing bird deaths and now fires, too? What next? They cause incontinence? But, seriously, are these "issues" worthy of stopping progress?

Alternative forms of producing energy are here to stay. Dealing with climate change demands it. Wind generators may not be perfect yet, but I believe we need to keep building them and thus improving them.

I am excited about the ones being installed on the ridge right behind our house in southern Vermont!

Peter

[Belmont Resident]

Wind generators causing bird deaths and now fires, too? What next? They cause incontinence? But, seriously, are these "issues" worthy of stopping progress?

Alternative forms of producing energy are here to stay. Dealing with climate change demands it. Wind generators may not be perfect yet, but I believe we need to keep building them and thus improving them.

I am excited about the ones being installed on the ridge right behind our house in southern Vermont!

Peter

No problem as long a they don't use our state to make power that is sent to other states. :confused:

[brk-lnt]

No problem as long a they don't use our state to make power that is sent to other states. :confused:

You don't consume anything produced in other states an shipped to NH?

[Belmont Resident]

You don't consume anything produced in other states an shipped to NH?

You totally miss the point. The White Mountains are a virgin untouched area for all to enjoy. There are some power lines that have run through the area for as long as I can remember. Every time you see one it looks like a scar to the area.
I'm against North Country being ruined with towers and or windmills which will ruin the beauty of the area for ever and all for what? So Canadian companies can bring power down to the southern states. In many cases the companies involved are not even in our country, how are we befitting?
Not sure weather you have even researched what the Northern Pass is about but 200 foot towers towering above the trees from Canada down through the heart of our state isn't even necessary when they have unopposed options to bury the power lines and meet almost no opposition to the project.

[brk-lnt]

You totally miss the point. The White Mountains are a virgin untouched area for all to enjoy. There are some power lines that have run through the area for as long as I can remember. Every time you see one it looks like a scar to the area.
I'm against North Country being ruined with towers and or windmills which will ruin the beauty of the area for ever and all for what? So Canadian companies can bring power down to the southern states. In many cases the companies involved are not even in our country, how are we befitting?
Not sure weather you have even researched what the Northern Pass is about but 200 foot towers towering above the trees from Canada down through the heart of our state isn't even necessary when they have unopposed options to bury the power lines and meet almost no opposition to the project.

Quite familiar with the whole Northern Pass project, and I'm similarly opposed to it for multiple reasons. However your post made it seem as if it would be ok to destroy the area if the project provided cheap power to NH residents, but not if it was merely a conduit to other states/areas.

There is a larger issue that needs to be reconciled, which is that population growth and mass consumerism/consumption are not compatible with preserving all areas in pristine conditions in the way they have been for thousands of years.

I won't claim to know the specifics of your lifestyle, so I don't mean that as a comment directed at you, but I do find it curious when people oppose certain projects, but then act in a manner that is a contributor to the things they rail against. EG: anyone driving a Prius to "save the environment" is sans-clue.

[fatlazyless]

The White Mountain National Forest has ski areas; Waterville, Wildcat, Loon, Bretton Woods, Cranmore, Attitash, and Cannon on its property that are permitted by the US Dept Agriculture special use permits. How different are the wind turbines from the ski lift towers and will a wind farm qualify for a special use permit?

Presently, down on TEnney Mt Hgwy in Plymouth, the recently installed wood utility poles are really huge and spaced close together while the huge insulator brackets and power line have yet to be installed. How's that all going to look, a great big utility line running down Highland Ave, FAirground Rd, and Tenney Mt Hgwy in PLymouth?

[Pasquanel]

I watched a documentary on Netflix last night about windmills in the town of Meredith NY called Windfall I wold recommend you all watch it. Particularly those of you who can see no downside to these things!

[bclaker]

Does shovelling up all the dead birds count as a green job?

Might be a good way to get rid of those surplus defecating Canada geese!!!

[kunamola]

This must be what I could see last Monday evening at sunset (it was a clear day) from Abenaki Tower. I was astounded to see wind turbines along a ridge in the distance. Has anyone else noticed this and is it the wind farm in Groton?

[Belmont Resident]

Quite familiar with the whole Northern Pass project, and I'm similarly opposed to it for multiple reasons. However your post made it seem as if it would be ok to destroy the area if the project provided cheap power to NH residents, but not if it was merely a conduit to other states/areas.

There is a larger issue that needs to be reconciled, which is that population growth and mass consumerism/consumption are not compatible with preserving all areas in pristine conditions in the way they have been for thousands of years.

I won't claim to know the specifics of your lifestyle, so I don't mean that as a comment directed at you, but I do find it curious when people oppose certain projects, but then act in a manner that is a contributor to the things they rail against. EG: anyone driving a Prius to "save the environment" is sans-clue.

I agree with you, I am by no means a tree huger opposed to everything.
I just a look around during the summer months and with a little imagination one can see that down the road this whole area is going to be one big traffic nightmare as more and more flood to the now less populated areas of the lakes region.
But there are still some up north areas that should at all cost be left out of reach even for the most wealthy.
Living in this area verses coming up with my boy's to vacation has opened my eyes to things I never really looked at or cared about.
Oh and Super Duty Diesel by necessity of job, but looking to replace an aging gas SUV with a more fuel efficient Tacoma soon. Prius=speed bump!

[Winnisquamguy]

By PAULA TRACY
New Hampshire Union Leader
GROTON — The tiny town of Groton has a huge new source of revenue.

The windfall is from a wind farm now going up along its ridge lines and visible from the Pemi-Baker Valley.

Selectmen inked a 15-year-agreement with the Spanish wind energy giant Iberdrola which brings in $528,000 in the first year. The 2012 Groton town budget is $546,000; if all approved warrant articles are included, it totals $742,000, according to Pamela Hamel, administrative assistant to the Selectboard.

Iberdrola is moving to complete its $120 million, 48-megawatt project by the end of the year.

The Groton payment in lieu of tax agreement states that once the turbines are licensed and operating, each of the 24 turbines will net the town $22,000 a year. The PILOT base fee also increases annually by 2.5 percent, Hamel said.

“It's huge,” Hamel said of the tax impact of the project, which is the only commercial business in town.

She said the community of just under 600 has nine miles of paved road, six street lights, one bridge, no fire department or ambulance, and a tax rate of $12.24 per $1,000 of assessed value. Groton sends about 70 children to neighboring Newfound Regional School District — the town's largest expense.

Hamel said the Groton Selectboard is first looking to use some of the money to capitalize reserve funds and to fix up the roads, which she said are in tough shape.

“We've been on a shoestring budget for so long,” she said.

She noted the town has already received construction payments for 2011 and 2012 totaling $100,000 and also netted $236,000 when the land being used for the project went out of current use. The town will still receive taxes on the private land, but at a higher rate beginning next April.

The reaction from townspeople to the 400-foot-high turbines has been “great,” she said.

Few residents even see the project from their property, because of the way the roads and views are configured.

“We're kind of disappointed about that,” she said.

She acknowledged that not all in the region are as enthusiastic, particularly those who live in the Baker River Valley who are used to looking at ridge lines without any structures.

Surrounding towns do not receive any income because the project lies solely in Groton.

New Hampshire will receive money through its utility property tax assessment, which has not yet been established. It will also receive business enterprise and business profits tax revenue.

The electricity from the project, estimated to be enough to power 20,000 homes, is being sold to NSTAR at an undisclosed price per-kilowatt-hour.

Ed Cherian, the project developer, said 18 of the 24 Groton turbines are now complete.

“We're actually ahead of schedule,” he said.

While he said there are likely individuals and landowners who are not happy with the sight of the towers, the project has enjoyed the cooperation and support of not only Groton, but Holderness, Rumney and Plymouth officials.

The company's first wind farm in Lempster is half the size of the Groton project and almost four years old.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120827/NEWS05/708279935

[fatlazyless]

If all the deceased people in the Plymouth town cemetary on Fairgrounds Rd could talk, they would probably be bitch'n big time about the huge, ugly utility poles and large insulator brackets and wires that now run along the front roadside border of their final resting spot.

Rest in peace ......... not any more buddy......this new Fairgrounds Rd, Plymouth, power line is humongously ugggggly for a combination alive residential and deceased town cemetary area!

I don't know but could be the ugliest thing about the wind farm is not the wind turbines but the new powerline of 100' high wood poles and big wire lines and insulator brackets that now run down Tenney Mt Hgwy-Highland Ave- out front Plymouth police station- over Rt 93-enroute to big power line in Campton.

...................

You know the Town of Ashland leased out enough land in their Pemigewasset River waste water treatment facility to a cell phone tower and gets about $1600/month for it. The spot is similar to Groton as it has little to no effect to people living in Ashland but is highly visible to people in neighboring Bridgewater along the Pemi River. So, one town's unseen monthly money-maker is the neighbor town's ugly view to be look'n at......forever! It's the New Hampshire way!

[songkrai]

By PAULA TRACY
New Hampshire Union Leader
GROTON — The tiny town of Groton has a huge new source of revenue.

The windfall is from a wind farm now going up along its ridge lines and visible from the Pemi-Baker Valley.

Selectmen inked a 15-year-agreement with the Spanish wind energy giant Iberdrola which brings in $528,000 in the first year. The 2012 Groton town budget is $546,000; if all approved warrant articles are included, it totals $742,000, according to Pamela Hamel, administrative assistant to the Selectboard.

Iberdrola is moving to complete its $120 million, 48-megawatt project by the end of the year.

The Groton payment in lieu of tax agreement states that once the turbines are licensed and operating, each of the 24 turbines will net the town $22,000 a year. The PILOT base fee also increases annually by 2.5 percent, Hamel said.

“It's huge,” Hamel said of the tax impact of the project, which is the only commercial business in town.

She said the community of just under 600 has nine miles of paved road, six street lights, one bridge, no fire department or ambulance, and a tax rate of $12.24 per $1,000 of assessed value. Groton sends about 70 children to neighboring Newfound Regional School District — the town's largest expense.

Hamel said the Groton Selectboard is first looking to use some of the money to capitalize reserve funds and to fix up the roads, which she said are in tough shape.

“We've been on a shoestring budget for so long,” she said.

She noted the town has already received construction payments for 2011 and 2012 totaling $100,000 and also netted $236,000 when the land being used for the project went out of current use. The town will still receive taxes on the private land, but at a higher rate beginning next April.

The reaction from townspeople to the 400-foot-high turbines has been “great,” she said.

Few residents even see the project from their property, because of the way the roads and views are configured.

“We're kind of disappointed about that,” she said.

She acknowledged that not all in the region are as enthusiastic, particularly those who live in the Baker River Valley who are used to looking at ridge lines without any structures.

Surrounding towns do not receive any income because the project lies solely in Groton.

New Hampshire will receive money through its utility property tax assessment, which has not yet been established. It will also receive business enterprise and business profits tax revenue.

The electricity from the project, estimated to be enough to power 20,000 homes, is being sold to NSTAR at an undisclosed price per-kilowatt-hour.

Ed Cherian, the project developer, said 18 of the 24 Groton turbines are now complete.

“We're actually ahead of schedule,” he said.

While he said there are likely individuals and landowners who are not happy with the sight of the towers, the project has enjoyed the cooperation and support of not only Groton, but Holderness, Rumney and Plymouth officials.

The company's first wind farm in Lempster is half the size of the Groton project and almost four years old.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120827/NEWS05/708279935

A bunch of smart selectmen in the town of Groton.

Just look at their annual budget and look at the tax revenue coming in.

Some real smart Yankee selectment in Groton.

Why is it that the same folks who are against the Northern Pass are all FOR the Keystone Pipeline?

[BroadHopper]

Now that our view contains windmills, I think we should get a break form our view tax. Shall we charge the Town of Groton?

[Woodsy]

I guess I dont get it..... EVERYBODY wants cheap energy... but NOBODY is ever happy.

Nobody wants Wind Power..... its unsightly and spoils the view

Nobody wants Water Power... the transmission lines are unsightly

Nobody wants Coal Power.... too much emissions and greenhouse gas

Nobody wants Natural Gas.... nobody wants a pipeline

Nobody wants Hydrogen... expensive and requires external electricity

Nobody wants Nuclear.... radiation & nuclear waste

Nobody wants Solar... the solar panels are expensive and unsightly

its just a quick syynopsis of my take on the subject of energy needs. Bottom line is we do need all of these sources and more... if you want affordable energy.

Woodsy

[Rusty]

I guess I dont get it..... EVERYBODY wants cheap energy... but NOBODY is ever happy.

Nobody wants Wind Power..... its unsightly and spoils the view


Woodsy

It's not that Wind Power is just "unsightly" , some people are complaining about the low frequency noise.

Here is a video that was compiled using excerpts of a radio interview with people who live near the Fox Island Wind Farm located in Vinalhaven, an island community about 12 miles off the coast of Maine.. Those speaking are describing their experience of living with turbine noise:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Bw4S98SYHiE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[HellRaZoR004]

It's not that Wind Power is just "unsightly" , some people are complaining about the low frequency noise.

Here is a video that was compiled using excerpts of a radio interview with people who live near the Fox Island Wind Farm located in Vinalhaven, an island community about 12 miles off the coast of Maine.. Those speaking are describing their experience of living with turbine noise:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Bw4S98SYHiE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not to be rude but that was kind of boring. It would have gone a long way for them to get this so called low frequency noise on video rather than have someone rant on and on about it.

I sleep with a fan on at night so it wouldn't bother me one bit.

[BroadHopper]

But this is at the expense of NH natives. The power is going South and the owner is foreign. It only benefits the Groton folks who can't see the windmills from their homes and roads.

I was against the 'Greenshell Alliance' back when they tried to shut down Seabrook nuclear. I see shutting down Bow and other polluting plants which is more dangerous than Seabrook.

There was an interview not long ago with the leader of this alliance and he wish they had not shut down Seabrook 2 because the Bow plant is polluting to this day.

Today 50% of NH's electricity comes from natural gas. Many of the small coal, oil and diesel generators were converted. The coal Bow uses come from the Northwest. It has very low sulfur and other contents compared to the Appalachian coal. Bow is cleaner but very sooty. Just ask any of Bow's neighbors.

[NoBozo]

I think that video was rather misleading at best. It showed many multiple wind turbines seemingly all over the place on Vinalhaven Island. There were at least four or five different Brands AND Types of turbine.

In real life, Vinalhaven has Three 1.5 Mega Watt turbines..TOTAL. They are all the same brand and type. They are intended to supply the island with power. The power was not intended to be exported off the island.

In our case, (Portsmouth, RI,) OUR 1.5 MW Turbine was put on the ballot and the majority won and it was built. It is owned and operated by the town. I posted earlier in this thread about our turbine and it's problems. OUR three year old turbine doesn't make any noise AT ALL..because it's been broke all summer. :D

On more than one occasion I have stood directly beneath the turbine when it was running at full tilt at max capacity. The hum from a room air conditioner is far more obnoxious.

For some reason it seems to me that the Green Crowd were the ones that wanted the turbine. NOW: I think that same crowd has turned, and want the turbine gone. Just a guess. :look: :look: NB

[brk-lnt]

I guess I dont get it..... EVERYBODY wants cheap energy... but NOBODY is ever happy.

Nobody wants Wind Power..... its unsightly and spoils the view

Nobody wants Water Power... the transmission lines are unsightly

Nobody wants Coal Power.... too much emissions and greenhouse gas

Nobody wants Natural Gas.... nobody wants a pipeline

Nobody wants Hydrogen... expensive and requires external electricity

Nobody wants Nuclear.... radiation & nuclear waste

Nobody wants Solar... the solar panels are expensive and unsightly

its just a quick syynopsis of my take on the subject of energy needs. Bottom line is we do need all of these sources and more... if you want affordable energy.

Woodsy

FYI, I applied for a government grant to build a power generation facility. I'll spare you all the details, but the power comes from overweight unruly children sentenced to ride bicycles connected to power generators in dark basements.

This project will teach responsibility to kids, get their doughy asses in shape, and provide a source of cheap renewable energy that doesn't impede anyone's ability to enjoy the outdoors. I haven't heard back yet on the status of my application, but I'm expecting approval any day now.

We already have a room full of exercycles, generators, wiring, etc.

[patman]

I'll spare you all the details, but the power comes from overweight unruly children sentenced to ride bicycles connected to power generators in dark basements.

This project will teach responsibility to kids, get their doughy asses in shape, and provide a source of cheap renewable energy that doesn't impede anyone's ability to enjoy the outdoors.

Now wait just a minute there, the smell will impede my ability to enjoy the landscape! Can you imagine the smell of the raw waste exhaust coming from that basement? Won't that have to be filtered, and then the filters will have to be disposed of? And what of the noise? The incessant whining from those cellulite-laden power sources is going to be unbearable...
:D:D

[Diana]

If you think wind turbines are unattractive, wait until they come for your coal or natural gas. You are not the first state to have your natural resources cxploited for the benefit of consumers in other states, or the profit of owners in other countires.

[brk-lnt]

Now wait just a minute there, the smell will impede my ability to enjoy the landscape! Can you imagine the smell of the raw waste exhaust coming from that basement? Won't that have to be filtered, and then the filters will have to be disposed of? And what of the noise? The incessant whining from those cellulite-laden power sources is going to be unbearable...
:D:D

Forgot to mention, it's going to be right near the Vermont border, so the funny smells won't seem out of place.

[NoBozo]

When the Portsmouth, RI, Town owned wind turbine was first started up.... WE..The Town.. were selling power to National Grid at about 14 cents/KWH. (Retail) NOW: We are selling power to National Grid at a little less than 4 Cents/KWH. OH WELL. :look:

OUR Problem: We have Politicians running the Turbine rather than engineers. So now we have a DEAD Turbine. :look: NB

[barefootbay]

Oil oil oil !!!!!!

[Rusty]

When the Portsmouth, RI, Town owned wind turbine was first started up.... WE..The Town.. were selling power to National Grid at about 14 cents/KWH. (Retail) NOW: We are selling power to National Grid at a little less than 4 Cents/KWH. OH WELL. :look:

OUR Problem: We have Politicians running the Turbine rather than engineers. So now we have a DEAD Turbine. :look: NB

Why is the Turbine "DEAD"?

[ApS]

Now that our view contains windmills, I think we should get a break from our view tax. Shall we charge the Town of Groton?
The "View Tax" is charged even to blind property owners. :eek2:

Plant some trees—selectively—everybody wins. :)

[Treerider]

I dont like seeing ski areas on Mountains,

I don't like seeing long docks that stick way out into the lake

I don't like looking at the blight of multi million dollar homes with huge boat houses on the lake

I dont llike it when I see cell phone towers

I don't like going down south and seeing oil wells and derricks

I don't like seeing high tension lines, ESPECIALLY through the woods

we should all shut of the power, cancel the next oil delivery, no more propane either

Bundle up whiners, its gonna be a long winter, oh, and no wood stoves, they pollute too and make my eyes water, better go to New Orleans or someplace else warm and safe.....

[Belmont Resident]

To really really really understand and comprehend the need and use for electro-magnetic energy ......aka......"electricity" ...... you must go for one day, 24-hours, with absolutely no electricity in your home or business by turning off the power at your main panel.......just to experience the importance and use of electricity in your daily life. It will give you a very serious appreciation for electricity.


If the Groton wind farm proves out good, then maybe similar wind turbines could be built in the very nearby mountains in the White Mountain National Forest in some of the less visited spots like Mt Isolation or Mt Tecumseh. Mt Tecumseh already has many ski lift towers so why not build some wind turbine towers too?

None of this electricity is benefiting NH. Let them build them in the states the electricity is going too not here. Let them build them on top of the hills of Mass or right off the coast so they can see them when they go to the beach.
Nobody wants them down there either and they are the ones all this supposedly cheap power is being brought to. The ones that will benefit the most are the biggest whiners, just look at the progress on the wind farm they wanted to put out in the ocean as an example.
That is the biggest issue most of us have, we do not benefit one bit.

[SAMIAM]

None of this electricity is benefiting NH. Let them build them in the states the electricity is going too not here. Let them build them on top of the hills of Mass or right off the coast so they can see them when they go to the beach.
Nobody wants them down there either and they are the ones all this supposedly cheap power is being brought to. The ones that will benefit the most are the biggest whiners, just look at the progress on the wind farm they wanted to put out in the ocean as an example.
That is the biggest issue most of us have, we do not benefit one bit.

Great point Belmont.Remember how fast Ted Kennedy lobbied to stop the windmill project in HIS neighborhood

[HellRaZoR004]

None of this electricity is benefiting NH. Let them build them in the states the electricity is going too not here. Let them build them on top of the hills of Mass or right off the coast so they can see them when they go to the beach.
Nobody wants them down there either and they are the ones all this supposedly cheap power is being brought to. The ones that will benefit the most are the biggest whiners, just look at the progress on the wind farm they wanted to put out in the ocean as an example.
That is the biggest issue most of us have, we do not benefit one bit.

Even though I don't mind the looks of them I completely agree with you. The energy created here should be used here to drive down our already inflated cost of electricity.

[NoBozo]

Why is the Turbine "DEAD"?

Rusty: See posts number 11 and number 29. :look: NB

PS: "Rumor" has it that the "Town Planner" was managing the turbine and was able to Reset the turbine if an Error Code shut down the turbine due to some problem detected by the software. The whole story seems very merky, and unlikely to me. There are factions involved here and if anybody knows for sure..nobody's talking. I went to a town meeting last week where they were supposed to talk about the turbine problem. The topic was "Tabled" until a later date. :D

[Rusty]

Rusty: See posts number 11 and number 29. :look: NB

PS: "Rumor" has it that the "Town Planner" was managing the turbine and was able to Reset the turbine if an Error Code shut down the turbine due to some problem detected by the software. The whole story seems very merky, and unlikely to me. There are factions involved here and if anybody knows for sure..nobody's talking. I went to a town meeting last week where they were supposed to talk about the turbine problem. The topic was "Tabled" until a later date. :D

Thanks NoBozo.

I wonder how many times the "reset" button was hit just to keep it running?

You would think that some kind of a circuit breaker wouldn't allow the "reset" button to be pushed too many times.

[fatlazyless]

None of this electricity is benefiting NH........
That is the biggest issue most of us have, we do not benefit one bit.

Have to wait until the turbines start operating and turning with the wind to see how much if any noise is made and how it sounds at the relatively close-by Plymouth Wal-Mart parking lot and its' neighboring Health Place-Speare Health Clinic, White Mountain Eye Clinic, and Pemi Baker Community Health Clinic, multiple discipline health professional health care clinic ..... aka ....."The Health Place."

How much noise can five wind turbines make, as heard from a distance of about one mile at the Plymouth Health Place and Plymouth Wal-Mart locations which are located high up on a hill and to the east of the Tenney Montain Ridge which has about five turbines currently looking all complete with all three propeller wings on each unit.

How much noise.......the answer is blowing in the wind?


Another question is what's the negotiated price/kilowatt that N-Star of Boston will pay Iberdrola of Spain for their Groton Wind electricity? How much......what's the price?

The Town of Plymouth has always been so picky-wicky with what they allow in terms of signs and construction so it strikes me as unusual that Plymouth would be at all happy with the 100' wood utility poles, spaced twice as close as the older shorter poles they replace that now run down Tenney Mt Hgwy-Highland Ave-Fairgrounds Rd-Riverside Cemetary-Plymouth Police Dept-Rt 3- crossing above Rt 93, and have yet to get wired with insulator brackets and wire lines enroute to a substation in neighboring Campton.

[BroadHopper]

It took the town three plus years for Lowes to back down and move out. All this crap about ground water, parking lot run off, etc. that they give to developers and they miss the sky above them.

[fatlazyless]

Could be that the Town of Plymouth will get increased larger property taxes from all the newly installed, tall, fat, 100' high utility poles ........have no clue.....is there a property tax-utility pole know-it-all on board here?

The selectmen may want to label the increased revenue as new money they wish they were not receiving ..... Just to save some face ... and distance themself from these monster utility poles ..... ho-ho-ho .......

[BroadHopper]

Believe it or not, the municipal, county and state gets some kind of revenue from the transmission poles. In fact this fee is the largest expense paid by the utilities.

[NoBozo]

I thought some may find this interesting. When our RI Turbine had been running for awhile, I bumped into a guy up at the Turbine site and struck up a conversation with him. I am an engineer and had become Enchanted with this machine. He had a connections with town government but I don't know what kind of connection.

He had a Laptop in his car and showed me how he could link up with the Turbine....via WiFi or Cell Phone I don't know. He could access any parameter he wanted. The website he was accessing was the company in Canada that built the turbine. The builder was monitoring the turbine real time all the time. (They went bankrupt a year later)

He told me this access would be available online to any resident shortly. This Access never happened.

I suspect our Town Planner inherited this Laptop. Weather the Town Planner could Control the turbine from the Laptop or not, is still speculation. :look: :look: NB

PS: This was my Personal interaction with some of the people who built the turbine and local town officials who later managed it in the beginning. I had no connections and was just interested as an engineer. :)

[songkrai]

I guess I dont get it..... EVERYBODY wants cheap energy... but NOBODY is ever happy.

Nobody wants Wind Power..... its unsightly and spoils the view

Nobody wants Water Power... the transmission lines are unsightly

Nobody wants Coal Power.... too much emissions and greenhouse gas

Nobody wants Natural Gas.... nobody wants a pipeline

Nobody wants Hydrogen... expensive and requires external electricity

Nobody wants Nuclear.... radiation & nuclear waste

Nobody wants Solar... the solar panels are expensive and unsightly

its just a quick syynopsis of my take on the subject of energy needs. Bottom line is we do need all of these sources and more... if you want affordable energy.

Woodsy

To go a tad further all lands should be given back to the native Americans who were here first:

Winnecowet Native American Tribe.

Piscataqua Native American Tribe.

Coosuc Native American Tribe.

Souhegan Native American Tribe.

Newichawanoc Native American Tribe.

Wamosit Native American Tribe.

Squamscot Native American Tribe.

Pennacook Native American Tribe.

Amoskeag Native American Tribe.

Winnipesaukee Native American Tribe.

These folks were here first and your house is sitting on their land. And I don't think that they like the view of looking at your house on their land.

[tis]

Have to wait until the turbines start operating and turning with the wind to see how much if any noise is made and how it sounds at the relatively close-by Plymouth Wal-Mart parking lot and its' neighboring Health Place-Speare Health Clinic, White Mountain Eye Clinic, and Pemi Baker Community Health Clinic, multiple discipline health professional health care clinic ..... aka ....."The Health Place."

How much noise can five wind turbines make, as heard from a distance of about one mile at the Plymouth Health Place and Plymouth Wal-Mart locations which are located high up on a hill and to the east of the Tenney Montain Ridge which has about five turbines currently looking all complete with all three propeller wings on each unit.

How much noise.......the answer is blowing in the wind


Another question is what's the negotiated price/kilowatt that N-Star of Boston will pay Iberdrola of Spain for their Groton Wind electricity? How much......what's the price?

The Town of Plymouth has always been so picky-wicky with what they allow in terms of signs and construction so it strikes me as unusual that Plymouth would be at all happy with the 100' wood utility poles, spaced twice as close as the older shorter poles they replace that now run down Tenney Mt Hgwy-Highland Ave-Fairgrounds Rd-Riverside Cemetary-Plymouth Police Dept-Rt 3- crossing above Rt 93, and have yet to get wired with insulator brackets and wire lines enroute to a substation in neighboring Campton.

Are the turbines on the hill up behind WalMart?

[HellRaZoR004]

What's with the mod moving all the posts around, it's getting a little old.

[NoBozo]

My guess is Post #79 did it. :look: NB

[jrc]

To go a tad further all lands should be given back to the native Americans who were here first:

Winnecowet Native American Tribe.

Piscataqua Native American Tribe.

Coosuc Native American Tribe.

Souhegan Native American Tribe.

Newichawanoc Native American Tribe.

Wamosit Native American Tribe.

Squamscot Native American Tribe.

Pennacook Native American Tribe.

Amoskeag Native American Tribe.

Winnipesaukee Native American Tribe.

These folks were here first and your house is sitting on their land. And I don't think that they like the view of looking at your house on their land.

How do we know that these American Indian tribes owned the land first? I mean who was here before the American Indians? Plus how do I know that the tribe in a certain area didn't "steal" their land from a different tribe? There was no single American Indian society, some cultures didn't make it, those rules didn't stop in 1492.

[fatlazyless]

Groton Wind when complete will have 24 turbines spread across the ridges of Tenney MOuntain and Fletcher Mountaiin. Tenney Mountain is home to the now closed Tenney Mt ski area and is maybe one to 1 1/2 miles east of neighboring hill in Plymouth that is home to the PLymouth Wal-Mart and group of professional health care clinics and offices known as "The Health Place" campus, plus a Tractor Supply retail store plus somecoomercial lots for sale.

It's a good spot to view about five of the turbines which have been constructed butyetto be in operation.

[Seaplane Pilot]

To go a tad further all lands should be given back to the native Americans who were here first:

Winnecowet Native American Tribe.

Piscataqua Native American Tribe.

Coosuc Native American Tribe.

Souhegan Native American Tribe.

Newichawanoc Native American Tribe.

Wamosit Native American Tribe.

Squamscot Native American Tribe.

Pennacook Native American Tribe.

Amoskeag Native American Tribe.

Winnipesaukee Native American Tribe.

These folks were here first and your house is sitting on their land. And I don't think that they like the view of looking at your house on their land.

Sounds like a similar anti-colonialism theme being put forth by POTUS. See for yourself - go see this movie: http://2016themovie.com/media/

[Rusty]

I wonder if the low frequencey noise of the wind mills will effect the condominiums at the bottom of the the abandoned ski sloop? Melvin Rd, etc

This is the Wind Turbine location Map in Groton:

[Misty Blue]

I have worked for the power company since 1978. Mostly in production but also in distribution.

To say that the power made in NH goes to the southern NE states is only half the truth.

Power distribution throuout New England is controled by the Indipendent System Operator (ISO). I used to work for them.

While it is true that the major load in NE is in south eastern parts of NE the price is the same every where. For example at six oclock this morning the price of electricity was 19.81 cents per kw. Depending where you are it might be a little bit higher or lower due to impedance losses on those long runs of wire.

The grid is the gred. Power from my plant (I'm at work now) goes on to the grid (115KV) and is supports the high line voltage. This voltage is the same all over NE. In fact we are in sinc. with every AC power source from Canada to the rockies to the gulf. Only Texas is isolated.

So when you say that power from NH goes to other states but cheap power made in NH lowers everybodies bills and cheap power made in CT. lowers everybodys bills.

Misty Blue

[lawn psycho]

Windmills are a farce. They don’t supply consistent power. I own almost 100 acres in Groton. The natural beauty of the area was its attraction before the windmills started. Now, it's destroyed for our lifetime. My property abuts the Cockermouth State Forest, in which you can hike to Bald Knob and Mount Crosby and view the surrounding mountains and Newfound Lake. Now when you hike to the summit, you look at windmills on Fletcher and Tenney Ridge. Some of the windmills are located on land leased from Green Acres Land Company. Jane Difley, president of the Society For The Protection Of NH Forests worked on an easement funded through the state of NH and the Forest Society to secure 3.6 million dollars in federal funding to buy a conservation easement on land owned by Green Acres Woodlands, a private timberland owner. She took no stance on the issue of windmills when it was being fought, even though the Cockermouth State Forest is a Society property, which abuts the Green Acres land, and the windmills directly impact the Cockermouth view shed. William Wadsworth, who donated this beloved 1003 acres to the Forest Society, is rolling in his grave. She is fighting Northern Pass tooth and nail and lobbied to protect the view shed surrounding Mount Monadnock in Jaffrey. She has no problem with 24 - 398 foot wind turbines, but is fighting 130 to 185 foot electrical poles. The Newfound Audubon Center has a sanctuary located on the northern end of Newfound Lake in Hebron, within a short distance from these turbines. Propellers chop birds.

I attended the final state Site Plan Review Meeting for the project in Concord last spring. The review committee spent most of the meeting questioning their lawyer to cover their butts and quizzing if any repercussions could be thrown back at them for approving the project. The only condition the committee upheld was a bird mitigation study. Only one Selectmen from Groton attended and he showed up late.

Iberdrola Renewables LLC is a division of parent company Iberdrola, SA, Spain’s #1 energy group, which received several million dollars from our government to construct this wind farm. They prey on small towns, with simple-minded officials, with small budgets. Just ask the residents of Fairfield, NY where the same company built the wind farm known as Hardscrabble Wind Farm. Windmills are literally in resident's back yards and they experience shadow flicker through their windows and interference with electronic devices. Iberdrola refused to pay a cement company they hired in construction due to issues with product quality. In turn, the cement company placed liens on property owners in Fairfield leasing land to Iberdrola for the windmills. Now, their real estate is frozen and they can't sell it.

It's a win win for Iberdrola at the expense of quality of life for humans. Groton didn’t need the tax revenue. We have little infrastructure. The supposed 20,000 homes this will supply power to don't care where their power comes from. Wind power can't be stored, so it's unreliable. After the wind farm was approved by the state, Iberdrola brought up doubt if the power lines were adequate enough to handle the load. That is why the very large poles are now being installed on Tenney Mountain Highway, much to people’s surprise. Not only are they large and imposing, there are two for every old one. The company plays games and hid this fact during the approval process.

There is a history of windmills causing severe fires. The roads to maintain the windmills are accessed from the Plymouth side, not Groton, so the burden of fire danger falls on the town of Plymouth. The land is rugged in the surrounding area and the potential for a devastating forest fire exists. I am worried about my property because I am so close.

Probably the largest tragedy of all is the visibility of these eyesores from pristine Newfound Lake. And now, I’m reading they can be viewed from Rattlesnake Island. Don't think it can't happen in your backyard. Consider lobbying your town to adopt an ordinance against windmills.


All this typing you put in an can be debunked with one example. The Netherlands. And to think people actually go their to SEE the windmills and buyt trinkets of windmills as momentos of visiting Holland;)

As someone who travels around the world and gets to see very large windmills in operation, they do work. A lot of red herring misinformation is flying up and down these posts.

[CateP]

I watched a documentary on Netflix last night about windmills in the town of Meredith NY called Windfall I wold recommend you all watch it. Particularly those of you who can see no downside to these things!

I watched this same documentary last night and it is excellent! Very informative and eye opening. (disturbing actually) I used to be a big proponent of wind energy, but my view has changed since I saw this documentary. I second the recommendation.

[lawn psycho]

I watched this same documentary last night and it is excellent! Very informative and eye opening. (disturbing actually) I used to be a big proponent of wind energy, but my view has changed since I saw this documentary. I second the recommendation.

So one biased show deters you? Pick any type of energy source and fault can be found. Do you think a coal or oil fired power plant is better? If you want purity you better unplug.

As for windmills, they work. Obviously siting matters. I'd put one in my backyard it if made economic sense.

[BroadHopper]

A good friend of mine owns one of the condos next to the Tenney Mtn. ski area. Even though the tubines are about 2 miles from her property, a realtor/appraisor told her to expect a property devaluation of 20%

She is already taking a hit when the ski area closes. Location, Location, Location.

[Rusty]

I watched this same documentary last night and it is excellent! Very informative and eye opening. (disturbing actually) I used to be a big proponent of wind energy, but my view has changed since I saw this documentary. I second the recommendation.

The documentary didn't change my view of wind turbines but it did influence me a little about the way big business will do anything to get their way. Payoffs to keep people quiet and pit neighbor against neighbor was mostly what this documentary was all about. It didn't really show any evidence that wind turbines cause excess noise or are bad for your health.

The unfortunate thing about wind turbines is that you need many of them in one area to produce enough electricity to make it worth while.

[fatlazyless]

As of August 26, approximately 18 of the 24 wind turbines have been put up. How's the long distance view of them now, looking from Rattlesnake Island?

[Rusty]

As of August 26, approximately 18 of the 24 wind turbines have been put up. How's the long distance view of them now, looking from Rattlesnake Island?

Spin, baby, spin :D

[Belmont Resident]

All this typing you put in an can be debunked with one example. The Netherlands. And to think people actually go their to SEE the windmills and buyt trinkets of windmills as momentos of visiting Holland;)

As someone who travels around the world and gets to see very large windmills in operation, they do work. A lot of red herring misinformation is flying up and down these posts.

Weather they work or not LP the fact remains the NH produces 100% of it's own power.
None of the power produced from these plans, windmill or Northern Pass is going to benefit NH. Yes there may be some jobs created but very few will be employee's from NH communities.
I firmly believe that if the power is going to benefit another state then we should not have to endure the scare on our landscape. Furthermore there is absolutely no reason to build towers spanning the Canadian border to Mass when there is an option to bury any power lines. This would eliminate most if not all opposition to the the Northern Pass project. As for windmills I think enough study has been done to determine that they don't produce enough electricity to offset the cost at least in NE. From my understanding there isn't enough windy days to produce enough electricity to make them cost effective unless they are on the coast.

[songkrai]

"TOKYO, Japan, September 14, 2012 (ENS) – The Japanese government has decided to phase out nuclear power by sometime in the 2030s and shift the country in the direction of renewables, energy conservation and natural gas.

There will be a 40-year limit on the lifespan of nuclear power plants, no new plant construction and no expansion of existing nuclear power facilities."

LINK (http://ens-newswire.com/2012/09/14/japan-to-zero-out-nuclear-power-by-2030s/)

Some are just so short sighted here in New Hampshire.

[Winnisquamguy]

Saw this on last nights news.....

Wind power is all the rage in Massachusetts, which has invested nearly $6 million in projects since 2010, and across the country, where President Obama touted its importance during the first presidential debate, but a review of wind power projects in the state reveals these projects are facing numerous problems from mechanical failures to lower-than-forecast energy savings.
New wind turbines are regularly sprouting up in Massachusetts, touted by Gov. Deval Patrick as proof that the heart of the clean energy revolution lies here. They are paid for partly through a surcharge on consumers' electric bills.
The clean energy revolution is sometimes not living up to its promise, as seen in the wind turbine at Forbes Park in Chelsea. It's been idle for almost three years, installed as part of a high-end green condominium development, which is also at a standstill.
"Absolutely it's frustrating to see it not moving. And we're hopeful that it will get spinning again soon," said Andy Brydges of the Massachusetts Clean Energy Center, which investshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19740899/2012/10/04/mass-wind-projects-hitting-turbulence-setbacks-for-green-energy#) money collected from electric bill surcharges in clean energy projects around the state.
"Why isn't that turbine moving?" FOX Undercover reporter Mike Beaudet asked.
"The whole development isn't moving. It was a real estate development that was meant to be a green development," Brydges said.
The failed development comes with a public cost. The Chelsea project received $500,000 in 2007 from a state trust funded by the electric bill surcharges.
"Was that a waste of money?" Beaudet asked.
"I don't think so. I think if you look at all the money we've spent on wind, we're getting a very good dollar-per-kilowatt hour return on our investmenthttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19740899/2012/10/04/mass-wind-projects-hitting-turbulence-setbacks-for-green-energy#). It's too bad, and hopefully that project will come around if the housing market rebounds, and it'll get restarted and prove to be a viable project in the long term. So it's an unfortunate, but we hope a temporary situation," Brydges said.

For the rest click on link.
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19740899/2012/10/04/mass-wind-projects-hitting-turbulence-setbacks-for-green-energy

[Boater]

>>>>>>>>>>

[BroadHopper]

Reminds me of the above. Lots of government money went into it as research and development. The project amount to nothing.

Why can't we have water turbines built into the sides of the bank of the Piscataqua river? As the tides flows in and out, the water will give a steady power to an attached generator. Out of sight, out of mind.

[fatlazyless]

It looks like all 24 wind turbines are up, but with the curve of Fletcher ridge it's difficult to say if it is 23 or all 24. Driving down Rt 93 north or south, you can catch a very very quick view between the trees in the close proximity to Exit 26, Plymouth, looking up the Baker River valley. All the towers and 3-blade propellers, which supposedly are 300' high, are a reflective white color.

These two mountains that are home to the 24 turbines are just south of White Mountain National Forest and are seperated from it by the Baker River.

It seems like local people have varying different opinions on the new 24 wind turbines....but one thing is for sure......they are very, very easy to see from the very well used Rt 25-Tenney Mt Hgwy in Plymouth, plus the newly installed 100' wood utility poles and wires that run down Tenney Mt Hgwy are also very easy to see.


Wind power......catch the power from a windy mountain ridge high up in Groton, NH........owned by the largest electric utility co in Spain ... www.iberdrolarrenewables.us/groton.html .....sell the power to N-Star electric utility in Boston, MA. .....pay a large signifigant property tax to the small town of Groton, NH.


Question for this Sunday morning: So, who the heck benefits from these here 24 wind turbines that are each about 300' high and why?

The headquarters building for the local electric utlity, the New Hampshire Electric Coop, is located on Tenney Mt Hgwy in Plymouth, and the 24 turbines can easily be seen from that location, but how-o-how do those turbines do anything to benefit the NH Electric Coop users who sure pay some very high electric rates? This includes myself. Every time I drive past the Electric Coop, I think about that and try to figure how the turbines have anything to do with the local users of electricity??? So, what's the connection? Is there a connection between the two?


Maybe try googling: "Wind farm proves windfall for tiny town of Groton" Union Leader, August 2012 for an article and email comments.
.........


From the Oct 1, 2012, Waterville Valley WigWag, authored by David Britton, an article titled : "Wind Farm: Something New On The Horizon".

If the WigWag is on the internet, I couldn't find it, but here's some of the info from the article.

"Each of the 24 turbines will net the Town of Groton $22,000/year and this increases by 2.5% annually."

"Iberdrola is moving to complete its $120 million, 48-megawatt project by the end of the year."

" Selectmen inked a 15-year-agreement with the Spanish wind energy giant Iberdrola which brings in $528,000 in the first year. The 2012 Groton town budget is $546,000: if all warrant approved warrant articles are included, it totals $742,000."

"Each of the 24 wind towers is, from foundation to tip of blade, about 300 feet high."
........

Here's a couple of comments.....

"I think the windmills are actually quite beautiful. There is a sleek elegance to them and they follow the ridgelines with an almost fluid quality. Now if Groton will only curb the urge to spend, spend, spend, their citizens might actually see real benefits from having the power company essentially pay all their taxes."

"While the windfall may benefit one small town, it is an eyesore as far away as Lake Winnipesaukee and Squam Lake region. A number of towns were never involved or notified about the situation. Is this the future? Big brother destroying the scenery? Maybe we can abilished the 'view' tax."

[NoBozo]

Our Town Owned 1.5 MW Turbine has been inactive since June 16 with a broken gearbox. The engineers report just came back yesterday. Lots of metal shavings in the oil. Gears and bearings chewed up. :(

The engineers are calling our turbine an orphan. It seems 3 out of the 5 of this turbine (AAER Canada..now defunct) installed in the U.S. has failed the gearbox at around 3 years. Ours is just over that. The warranty was for two years.

SO: AFTER we spend $800K to fix it, the report says.. AND... IF the new gearbox...same model as the last, lasts 10 years, with all routine expences and income considered....the turbine will run a deficit of ($400K) per year. We still owe $2.4M on the current loan. :eek:

I used to like this machine. Let the buyer beware. NB

[Rusty]

IMHO this orphan windmill should be scrapped before Portsmouth, RI goes bankrupt.

Here is the breakdown for the gearbox replacement cost, recurring additional costs (annual), annual revenue estimate, and operating cost:

http://localhostr.com/file/lq7l70L60PPD/Porstmouth-RI-windmill-costs.jpg

[NoBozo]

RUSTY: I considered linking to the town website but knowing Don's aversion to OFF Lakes Region stuff I didn't link.

Here's what I posted on our local "Portsmouth Patch". Google "Patch".

"I just read the entire report as well. I Voted against the turbine. When I watched it being built I became a BIG supporter. Looking at the Balance Sheet in this report, one can only conclude THIS turbine is an albatross. This report makes the decision easy. I am really saddened to say this, but I think it's time to take the machinery down and put the remaining tower to some other use.

BTW: Fairhaven, MA just put up Two turbines just like ours this past spring."

:look: NB

[Rusty]

NoBozo,

I think it's educational for the Lakes Region folks to know what problems other communities are having with windmills.
The more we learn about it, the more it will help us make a decision if a Lakes Region town wants to put up one similar to the RI one.

I hope Don allows you/us to keep the forum up to date with the Portsmouth, RI turbine problem.

[BroadHopper]

Google prior wind farms project in NH. All are failure and millions of dollars are lost. If I find the feds bankrolled this wind farm and the farm eventually failed, I would make sure there will be no more money pits in our hills.

[tis]

Wind is a great idea, solar is a great idea, as are other forms of newer energy. However, they are not perfected and if and until they are, we shouldn't be throwing money at them. With all the things that we can do, it seems we could use these or some other kind of energy. We are so cold in NH, it makes it harder than warmer climates to make alternative energy work.

Now wasn't that a brilliant statement? Nothing nobody doesn't know but just had to vent I guess. :laugh:

[Rusty]

Having worked in the mechanical engineering field most of my life I have a tendency to enjoy reading technical documents like the "Gear Box Failure" of the Portsmouth, RI wind turbine. http://www.portsmouthri.com/documents/Turbine_Gearbox.pdf

I would love to be in Germany when they Perform the forensic teardown of failed gearbox to narrow down root cause of failure.

The only ones that have failed in NH are buried at the foot of Crotched Mountain (and they were a big failure) so I guess no one will be writing anymore reports about them.

The other wind farms in NH haven't been running long enough to have failures (to my knowledge anyway) so we'll just have to wait and see.

[BroadHopper]

I took a ride up 93 to see a friend of mine off Tenney Mountain Highway. As soon as I crest wind sock hill past Ashland, I saw the windmills clear as day. WOW! It travels from one hill to the next, to the next! What a way to greet the tourists to the White Mountains!

As I was traveling the Tenney Mountain Highway, it is obvious of the Paul Bunyan size utility poles and wires. I can imagine a semi snapping one of those poles and the thousands of volts traveling through the wet ground. Its like a nightmare!

[NoBozo]

Probably only Rusty would be interested in this Video of the Portsmouth Town meeting where the consulting engineer presents his case..A replication of the report that Rusty linked to... BUT More detailed... This will be tedious...but informative to those with an engineering background. :look: Be prepared to spend over an hour. :) NB

PS: I have had the opportunity to read an "unpublished" paper report...WELL beyond the report on the Portsmouth Website that Rusty linked to. I am impressed with the consulting engineer from Seattle.

http://www.theportsmouthrecord.com/TownCouncil/ptc.10.23.12.Flash.htm

[Rusty]

Thanks NoBozo.

Everyone in the video seemed to be very calm considering the severity of the gear box problem/s.

Portsmouth, RI thought they bought a Cadillac and it turned out they got a Zastava Koral. :(

[NoBozo]

We have had an almost clean sweep of the 7 member town council....from Republican to Democrat. A previous Democrat town council voted to build the turbine. The 2 Democrats that were the minority on yesterdays council now have plenty of like minded company in todays council. They have been steadfast in their desire to repair the turbine for reasons one can only guess. :look:

SO: I predict the turbine will be repaired...No Matter how much it costs every year to run. Dam the (Deficits) .....Full Speed Ahead. YUP

After all, it's GREEN and "the right thing to do". :D NB

[fatlazyless]

Just noticed about an hour ago, that two of the more prominently placed windmills were turning round & round; they look pretty good too, something about their movement makes them a lot better looking than in a stationary position. Start em up.......that wind is blowing good......let's go make some electro-magnetic energy.......baby!

:banana::banana: Two dancing bananas represent two out of the 24-total wind turbines turning, maybe five miles away up top the mountain ridgelines in Groton, as seen while driving down Rt 25-Tenney Mt Hgwy, westbound in Plymouth, while driving to the Wal-mart! One can get a pretty good, up-closer look from the Wal-mart parking lot.

Round and round and round they go; cranking out electro-magnetic energy, paying out $22,000+/year, for each wind turbine, in local property taxes to the Town of Groton www.grotonnh.org, click on GROTON WIND, plus supposedly making a profit too; pretty danged amazing!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_electricity

Attention: On Monday at 8:40-am, there will be a 20-question, multiple guess quiz on the etymology of electricity.

[Rusty]

Just noticed about an hour ago, that two of the more prominently placed windmills were turning round & round; they look pretty good too, something about their movement makes them a lot better looking than in a stationary position. Start em up.......that wind is blowing good......let's go make some electro-magnetic energy.......baby!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::ban ana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banan a::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Round and round and round they go; cranking out electro-magnetic energy, paying out $22,000/year plus in prop taxes to Groton, plus supposedly making a profit too; pretty danged amazing!

The Groton payment in lieu of tax agreement states that once the turbines are licensed and operating, each of the 24 turbines will net the town $22,000 a year. The PILOT base fee also increases annually by 2.5 percent.

$22,000 x 24 = $528,000/yr to the little town of Groton.

Spin Baby Spin!! :D

[NoBozo]

I am a BIG fan of Vestas..the Biggest wind turbine company in the world: I was snooping around on the internet today and found this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-29/denmark-won-t-support-vestas-through-financial-hardship.html :look: NB

[NoBozo]

OH: BTW: Hey Less..those stinkin bobbin bananas are very distracting....Just Sayin..:D NB

WAIT A Freakin Minute: I think Rusty ..embelished on Less's post.....YUP..

[Pineedles]

You can stop any moving avatar by hitting the Esc key.

[fatlazyless]

:banana::banana::banana: three dancing bananas represents three wind turbines out of 24-total turning.....looking in the rear-view mirror, driving eastbound on Rt 25- Tenney Mt Hgwy, I could see three wind turbines turning earlier today....this morning! Believe they are located on up high along Fletcher Mountain ridgeline........ayuh........by golly......round & round & round & round they go......making electro-magnetic energy......aka electricity!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity

"Wind power is of increasing importance in many countries." In the wikipedia article on electricity, "wind power" is a clickable link and there's a photo of a wind farm too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power

[RANGER CANOE CO]

Plymouth get THE POLES.:eek: What a JIP :confused: I HATE THEM THINGS. :eek2: (poles)

[fatlazyless]

None of the ten or so wind turbines were turning today, but still a very impressive sight! Now that all the leaves have fallen off their trees, it has dramatically opened up the view from Rt 93, northbound, running the relatively short stretch between Exits 25-north to Exit 26, so now one gets about a 60-second look at the flat ridgeline atop Tenney Mountain while driving north, and the late afternoon sun clearly illuminates that ridgeline. Each one of the 300 (or 400?) foot high, all-white wind turbines has a reflective white surface, and easily catches and reflects the low angle, late afternoon sun; at least it does this time of year, so they really stand out against the blue sky beyond. Sometime soon, like in the next couple-three weeks I suspect, all the 24-turbines will be turning, and it will be some extraordinary sight to clearly and easily see about ten of them while driving north on Rt 93.

Who knows, maybe the state can rename that short stretch of Rt 93, between Exit 25 and Exit 26, to be the "WIND TURBINE MILE" and put up an informative and historic sign?

:banana::banana::banana:three dancing bananas represents three out of 24 turbines turning.

[fatlazyless]

Almost all of the 24 white wind turbines were turning with the winds yesterday morning......maybe 16 to 20 could be seen from the Tenney Mtn Hgwy as you get off at Rt 93-Exit 16....and their looks kind of grow on you.......they seem to look
a lot better when turning than when not turning. What the heck.....at least they are doing something and making somebody some money.....and as you probably already know......one cannot eat the view!

Each turbine costs maybe 5-million dollars because supposedly the whole project cost 120-million, and there's 24-wind turbines.

Anyone know how much electricity one turbine makes in a 24-hour day, and how does that translate into how much does Iberdrola get paid by N-Star for directing their wind power juice down to Boston? Unlike a car with a battery, all the power that goes into the grid must get used immediately because the electric grid has no storage reservoir for electric power similar to a car's battery.

Apparently, Groton must have a lot of year-round wind to make this very expensive project doable?

Who knows but as ski areas start to fade away what with the warmer winters, and more wind turbine towers get built, maybe New Hampshire will become known as the "Wind Turbine State." Looking at the ten or so wind turbines that are relatively close up to the Boulder Point-Plymouth medical center that is high up on a hill, it is very easy to see all the old and no longer used ski area trails of the now defunct Tenney Mountain Ski Area, and the neighboring wind mills high up the ridge. So's in this location, the mountain has gone from a ski area to a wind turbine area? Unlike a ski area, a wind farm is a business that runs every day and month of the year......just so long as the wind is moving.

:banana: Will refrain from posting all 24-dancing bananas here so just use your imagination!:banana: Could be that Iberdrola wanted to get all 24 turning by Christmas as their long term goal?:banana:

[Pineedles]

Just a helpful reminder that you can turn off FLL's dancing bananas by pressing the Esc key.:)

[NoBozo]

It was Six Months this week since our town owned !.5 MW Turbine (Portsmouth, RI.) has turned. :look: Nothng happening to change that as far as I know. NB

PS: I guess we (Taxpayers) are still paying the mortgage though. :D

[fatlazyless]

About 3-4 miles away, in Campton on Fairgrounds Rd, someone has a huge brown bull and two gurnsey cows that get pastured in a meadow that looks up to the Tenney Mt ridge that is now the new home for all the 24 wind turbines. On a day like today with some big wind blowing, it makes for an interesting picture with all the turbines spinning around big time....they seem to look much better when spinning than when stationary......and it is a bit of a shock to know that about five-million dollars was spent for each individual turbine....and that these will supposedly make a profit? ....the answer to that is blowing in the wind?

And, at least three of the towers are lit up at night with bright red, flashing, triple-light beacons presumably for airplane safety, so's all the homes lining along Lower Beech Hill Rd in Campton that used to have an uncluttered mountain view now get to look at red lights every night........oh well.......tough nuggies and too bad! Maybe it will take five years or so to see how and what these turbine towers and red lights do for the local residential property values. While the local town assessors tend to be a little optimistic with the numbers....the actual selling price is what it is.....as always!

[BroadHopper]

The Newfound area is facing the possibility of 90 industrial wind turbines between 400 to 500 feet tall. This number comes from the combined turbines of Groton Wind and the proposed Newfound area Wild Meadows and Groton's Spruce Ridge projects. We're being inundated with wind farms. It starts with an innocent meteorological tower approved by the local town. Once the met tower is in, the wind company can go straight to the SEC for application approval for a project if it is over 30 mw, without any say from the local town in which it will be built. The company and supporters of wind energy claim anyone can file intervener status to object to a project, but the SEC has never turned down a wind turbine project in NH. The SEC is using a ten year old energy policy that was formed by utility companies.

[CaptT820]

Unfortunately the red lights are required by the FAA if a tower of any kind (wind, electric, commercial building, etc.) exceeds 200-ft from ground surface in height.
As for concerns with the Northern Pass project, there is a good chance that a "portion" of it will end up being placed underground. The "portion" is still yet to be determined, but right now it appears that around 40 miles of the project may end up underground. I know that at least 2 miles of it as of right now will definitely be underground. Unfortunately it would be nice to put all the lines underground, but as always it comes back to cost, where it is 1/5th the price in most cases to place the lines above ground surface.

[BroadHopper]

Just a helpful reminder that you can turn off FLL's dancing bananas by pressing the Esc key.:)

This is the best advice I heard in ages :D

[Scott's Yott]

Birds are over rated anyway...Alls they do is POOP on my car

[BroadHopper]

Looks like the Wind Farms are getting the local govts attention.

http://laconiadailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/65413-lrpcwindfarms

[fatlazyless]

From the Feb 28 Plymouth Record Enterprise, Talk of the Towns column in the Groton section, it says that the Town of Groton is looking for suggestions on what to do with the recent ten thousand dollar payment it received from Iberdrola Wind which was payment for the facility testing period.

"Regarding the two seperate donations to the Town in the amount of $5,000 each from Groton Wind in payment for the facility testing period, the Board is asking for suggestions on what to spend the money on. It has been suggested that electric power be permanently installed in the Ball Park, another suggestion was for a new copier in the Selectmen's Office. Contact the selectmen's office with your thoughts 744-9190."

Jo O'Connor, grotonnews@yahoo.com

[NoBozo]

It will be TEN Months this week since our $3M Town Owned !.5 MW Turbine (Portsmouth, RI.) has turned. Broken $800K gearbox. Nothng happening to change that as far as I know. :look: NB

PS: See post #101 and #102 for background.

[fatlazyless]

Over on Belknap Point Rd, on the Winnipesaukee waterfront in Gilford, not too far up from the NH Marine Patrol Hdqtrs, there's a single family house that besides having a very nice looking tennis court, also has a pretty good sized electric-generating wind turbine atop a tall steel tower near their tennis court. Yesterday on Sunday, while bicycling in that area, I noticed it for the first time and was a little surprised that the local Gilford zoning would allow for such a big wind turbine in a shoreline residential area but then again whatdoIknowaboutit anyway?:rolleye2:


Who knows but just maybe that wind turbine can get the electric meter for the house to go backwards or something? Seems like it might just be a great way to turn your windy waterfront location into a mini-Winni windfarm! At the time yesterday afternoon, the wind turbine was spinning & spinning & spinning & spinning & spinning ........ad infinitum! .....it was pretty danged windy yesterday! ....... so it must have been making and selling electricity back into the electric grid to the NH Electric Coop ...... wow......how about that! I think I want one just like that on my little lot so's I can go do the same thing....put those windy kilowatts to work selling electricity for me!

Is one of these not-so-small residential wind turbines that makes your electric meter go backwards an expensive and unattractive looking, money-losing contraption, or is it a money-saving machine whose appearance sort of grows on the owner every time he/she gets the monthly electric bill?

.................

This is probably the answer to my point about a supposed Gilford zoning ordinance that prohibits wind turbines. A quick google search of "New Hampshire RSA wind turbines" found this http://www.nh.gov/oep/resourcelibrary/swes/ which has a link to HB310, a NH law passed in 2008 that says among other things that "collection of renewable energy shall not be unreasonably limited by use of municipal zoning powers or the unreasonable interpretation of such powers except where necessary to protect the public health, safety, and welfare."

Picture hereth yon reader .... a high quality photograph, taken on a bright sunny day, of said not-very-small wind turbine atop a tall steel tower nestled attractively next to yon tennis court on a luxurious Lake Winnipesaukee, Belknap Point, Gilford, waterfront residential lot that includes a very nice, single family, shoreline residence......spin-spin-spin!

It also has a link, Renewable Energy Incentives, for renewable energy incentives that includes property tax exemptions applied to tower and wind turbine from individual towns(?).

Like, money probably makes a huge big difference in how people think about having a wind turbine on their residential property; receiving electricity credit off your monthly electric bill by causing your electric meter to run backwards, being property tax exempt from local property tax, and getting federal tax credits as well are among the items to consider when thinking about installing a personal wind turbine tower on your property.

Is a residential wind turbine something you might consider, and is it a winner or a loser type of an item?

http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/small-wind

[NoBozo]

The Democrat Town Council (Back Then) Voted to build a !.5 MegaWatt Town Owned wind turbine. SO the town built it. ($3M) The Republicans won the Next town council election. During the Republican tenure..the turbine Broke and because of this...The Republicans last November were replaced by Democrats... (Go Figure).

The wind turbine has been Dormant for Over a year now and the Democrat Town Council seems to be IMPOTENT. They don't know nothin about no stinkin turbine. You can't make this stuff up. :look: NB

EDIT: You probably have to back up a few posts to Get It.

[BroadHopper]

I heard thru the internet, that someone is going around damaging, defacing signs set up by the opposition to wind mills. Someone took a number of these signs and clogged up the storm drain in front of a number of the local police stations. That's a pretty bold move!

[NoBozo]

I'm not sure what BH was inferring ..about people against windmills. I Voted against the windmill in the beginning. Being a fiscal conservative I didn't think borowing $3M during a recession was justified.

The town voted to Build It anyway. Once the turbine started going up I started to Like It. i became a supporter as long as it RAN and produced power. Then it broke. And then the guy from Seattle came out and looked at it. He prounounced it a "Dead Horse"..every which way you massaged the numbers...... It was a "Dead Horse".

So the Dead Turbine sits there in plain view of every tourist that comes over the bridge to the island from the North and those that exit the island heading north.

OH WAIT: There is a NEW (TOLL) bridge that tourists will have to cross to get to our little island of Aquidneck from the north..which you will have to use to get to NEWPORT. Our economy IS Tourism..just like the Lakes. The OLD bridge was free since it was built in 1956.

Don't have a RI EZPass...?? No problem. It will cost out of staters $10 round trip. NO toll collecters. A Scanner above the road will record your licence plate and send you a bill if you don't have the "Correct" transponder. Welcome to Our State. :eek: NB

PS: Rhode Island has been Democrat for the past 70 years. (95%)

[BroadHopper]

according to wind turbine association AEE. Spanish manufacturers are rapidly laying off workers. Investors in wind turbines no longer look attractive. The heart of the problem are the subsidies needed to cover the gap between the cost of producing electricity and the price charged to consumers. The German wind program is imploding, Germany is now facing up to the hard realities of maintenance costs, and backup power. As stated in the Heartland Institute science director Jay Lehr's June 17 Wall Street Journal commentary predicting wind developers lack of funds for the dismantling of their turbines will lead to a scene from a scifi movie with the earth covered with rusting hulks all over the land scape.

[songkrai]

The Groton payment in lieu of tax agreement states that once the turbines are licensed and operating, each of the 24 turbines will net the town $22,000 a year. The PILOT base fee also increases annually by 2.5 percent.

$22,000 x 24 = $528,000/yr to the little town of Groton.

Spin Baby Spin!! :D

The bottom line is.

Move to Groton. Where property taxes are real cheap.

[NoBozo]

I haven't posted in some time. I thought this might interest some of you who are interested in Wind Turbines. The Portsmouth, RI.. 1.5 MW wind turbine Owned by the town has been inactive for going on 4 years due to a failed gearbox. This turbine was the first such installation .. in RI and much celebrated.

Today, (1/28/16) the turbine came "down to the ground". It will be replaced by a NEW 1.5 MW "Direct Drive" turbine in the next few days. Direct Drive means NO GEARBOX. :look: NB

http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20141105/NEWS/311059970

EDIT: Here are some pictures of our Late turbine.

http://www.eastbayri.com/news/government-politics/portsmouths-broken-turbine-finally-coming-down-photos/

[wifi]

When it "worked", did it generate any revenue ? Any guarantee the new company will last long enough for support? Is this just another liberal, global warming faux pas to save face ?

[NoBozo]

When it "worked", did it generate any revenue ? Any guarantee the new company will last long enough for support? Is this just another liberal, global warming faux pas to save face ?

There was a book written by Jack London in the very early 20th Century called "The Cruise Of the Snark". Most of his books were novels. The Snark was a real life description of his quest to have a Yacht built to his specifications.

When things didn't go as he would have liked..(he was being scammed by the builders)..He and his wife would say....Just think of that "Beautiful Bow".
-------------------
When my wife and I would drive by the Portsmouth Wind Turbine...WE would say....."Look at that wonderful Wind Turbine". :) NB

EDIT; According to the article in a previous post, the turbine made $340,000 over the three years it ran. The problem was...IT DIED before it could pay off it's bills.

[NoBozo]

The OLD Wind Turbine has been totally removed. The skyline is EMPTY as you drive on to the island. OMG. The BIG Crane was removed this morning. Seven years ago this crane cost $10K/day plus $10k Setup fee. It is a BIG Crane.

NOW: The NEW word is the NEW turbine will NOT be installed...until maybe in June. :look:

My thoughts as an engineer, Maybe the NEW Turbine needs a NEW Foundation...That take's time.....The "Story" changes .............AS Required :( (Sarc) NB

[Cobalt 25]

Thanks for the updates, NoBozo.

wifi, a quote from you, "Is this just another liberal, global warming faux pas to save face ?"

It would appear you do not believe in the concept of global warming, in spite of the findings of over 97% of the world's climate scientists. Fine, nothing that I could possibly say could convince you otherwise.

But for the rest of the folks interested in learning more about wind generators, I hoping my personal experience with them will be of value.

I recently moved from our home which was situated maybe a quarter mile from the largest array of wind generators in MA. Our home was one of the closest to these structures.

Noise- maybe 5% of the time I was out of doors (which was a lot, we heated with wood and I harvested the fuel from our property plus I love being outside) I could hear a soft whooshing noise. I could never hear it from inside the house, even in the summer with the windows open.

Effects on property values- I sold our house myself and in interviewing maybe 50 parties all together I did not hear ONE person bring up the wind generators in a negative manner. Several had positive responses, most never even mentioned them.

Percentage of time on line- of the 19 structures, 10 were highly visible to me. I observed that those 10 generators usually had all 10 working at once, occasionally one would be down.

Economics- a solid business model is to sell your product to the highest bidder, regardless of location. The towns of Florida and Monroe derive property tax income from this project, for a total of $257,000 per annum. They can provide power for 10,000 homes. I do not know the profit margin of the company, but I hope they are doing well.

I believe we need to explore all possibilities when it comes to trying to minimize the very real impact of global warming. Wind power for electrical use is really in it's infancy. The Model T didn't have GPS, and wind generators will get better if we support their development in spite of early complications.

Here is a website with more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosac_Wind_Power_Project

I hope this adds to the discussion...

Peter

[NoBozo]

The Portsmouth Wind Turbine site: They are digging a big hole on the site. It seems they are going to plant a new foundation for the new turbine. I monitor the site with binoculars..:D...I can't get inside the fence without getting arrested... and probably beaten. :look: NB

[NoBozo]

As of yesterday things are getting moving. There are now three BIG "Tubes" lying horizontal in the high school parking lot that will comprise the tower.

A BIG crane is also on site but has not yet been erected. This kind of crane arrives on site with multiple flat bed trucks in attendance and needs to be assembled on site...booms, outriggers, EDIT (19 flatbed trucks) (6-15-16 )etc..

Other big turbine component parts are further up the hill....maybe a turbine hub..and other stuff. No turbine blades yet.

This turbine will be Direct Drive..No gear box. This type of turbine is generally taller and the fan disc is greater in diameter, EDIT: I was Wrong: compared to a Step UP geared turbine of the same output. (1.5 MW) These blades are 114' in length..compared to the old geared turbine with 123' blades.:look: NB

[NoBozo]

The weather has been fantastic. These guys are not standing still. (Bay Crane Inc) As of this afternoon (Wednesday, 15th..@1545) All three "tubes" are erected and the nacelle is on top. These guys work from dawn to dusk...didn't see anyone even stopping for lunch. Nacelle is 250 feet above ground. The old turbine was 212 feet above ground. :D NB

Note: The blades are not only on site..as of 1530, they were moving them up to the dirt lot where the tower is. :) :)

[NoBozo]

Noon Thursday everything was done. The crane is being disassembled by a small crew. The only thing left is to throw the big switch connected to the Grid. :)

The new turbine is now privately owned, leasing the land it sits on from the town. The turbine owners will charge the Town 15.5 cents per KWh for the power it makes for the next 25 years. The rest of us pay 10 cents. :look: NB

[NoBozo]

The NEW Portsmouth, RI (now privately owned) wind turbine started running on Tuesday. This direct drive turbine is supposed to be 1.5 MW. The fan disc is distinctly smaller than the original 1.5 MW geared turbine. I'm thinking this new turbine may be "Downrated" ...maybe to 1.0 MW. Let the SCAM continue :eek:

The best part...every minute the turbine runs...The town will pay 15.5 cents/Kw for the power......going into the Grid...weather the town needs the power or not. Local rates are about 10 cents/Kw. :eek: NB

[NoBozo]

SHORTLY: Rhode Island will have the Block Island offshore wind farm up and running. This fall. FIVE 6.0 MW turbines on pedestals in the sea. 30 MW total. That's BIG. I can't be sure..I think the electric rate will be 23 cents/Kw..or something. It's just hard to comprehend how this is happening. :eek: NB