Public Road turned Private

[onthebay]

Our home is located on a dirt road in Laconia. When we purchased our house 5 years ago the road was treated as a public way. It was graded twice a year and plowed in the winter by the city. We also received curbside trash pickup.
After the first year the town decided that we were not a public way but a private road and not entitled to curbside trash pickup. the second year they began putting out information that they were going to cut back on the grading and then finally discussed that they were going to cease maintenence including plowing.
Although there is no formal association a leader was picked and discussions held about what could be done. A lawyer hired and money spent. This held the city at bay for the next two years but at the end of the summer the informal leader sold his house and one of the longtime residents who was well respected in the community passed away.
The letter came during the winter that this was the last year they were plowing and there would be no grading in the spring.
I was told that we do not need a formal HOA but could simply create a maintenence agreement with all of the owners on the street to pay for plowing and grading. Does anyone have expereience with this or examples of existing agreement that they may have been used. What is the benefit or drawback to creating an HOA. Is it expensive attorneys involved.
I will be coming back from FL in a couple of weeks and hope to get a meeting together with the neighbors and am trying to do some homework...Thx

[Belmont Resident]

We have a situation similar but the town isn't changing the status on our road.
First if the frontage of your house uses the current road then it is in fact a road.
If your road frontage is on an existing road then they can opt out of responsibility.
But to the best of my knowledge and this info came from our surveyor, a town cannot discontinue a road and turn it into a right of way if your deed considers it as road frontage.
Also I do snow plowing in the Laconia area and would be happy to look at and give you an estimate on your plowing needs.

[Argie's Wife]

There should be a ruling on whether or not the road is private or public somewhere. I'm not saying you're not giving us full-disclosure with your initial post, but I'm certain, by what you've shared here, there's more history about this somewhere.

A city can't just service or not service a road at whim. There's a decision process behind this, and there should be record on file with the NH DOT (Dept of Transportation) about your road.

Does the trash pick up and grading have to do with the designation of the road? Or are there other factors? I think there's more history here... am I right?

I do know that some towns will go above the letter of the law to provide services, such as grading a road or trash pick up, and that may be your situation here. In other words, if yours truly is a designated private road, then the property owners utilizing that road are solely responsible for the maintenance of the road.

[onthebay]

There should be a ruling on whether or not the road is private or public somewhere. I'm not saying you're not giving us full-disclosure with your initial post, but I'm certain, by what you've shared here, there's more history about this somewhere.

A city can't just service or not service a road at whim. There's a decision process behind this, and there should be record on file with the NH DOT (Dept of Transportation) about your road.

Does the trash pick up and grading have to do with the designation of the road? Or are there other factors? I think there's more history here... am I right?

I do know that some towns will go above the letter of the law to provide services, such as grading a road or trash pick up, and that may be your situation here. In other words, if yours truly is a designated private road, then the property owners utilizing that road are solely responsible for the maintenance of the road.


Not sure where you are going with "more history" The road enjoyed all the benefits of a public road for 20 years. The town took a hard stance on using public moneys for supporting what they considered a private road. The former DPW Director had it classified as a public way but was overuled by the town manager. I don't believe we were the only road affected by this decision.

I am looking for advice on the best way to get the property owners together in order to maintain the road. HOA or a shared maintainence agreement.

[Broadsider]

I lived in a neighborhood that had an informal agreement and no formal HOA. The only drawback was that one homeowner refused to help pay for snow plowing. He said that he was not there in the winter. I assume that either he did not care if the fire department had access to his house, or he calculated that the rest of us would pay for the snow plowing. With no HOA there was no way to force the hold-out to help pay.

I believe that a formal HOA can force everyone to pay their share.

[Happy Gourmand]

onthebay, it sounds like you and your neighbors acknowledge that the road is indeed private, but for whatever reason, the town provided services as if it was public. Sorry to hear it, but you are between a rock and a hard place. I wonder what it would take for the town to accept the road as public...I think as a minimum it would have to be brought up to any town standards...paving...width...drainage...etc...befo re a plan to accept would be considered. I don't know about Laconia, but I know it's been done in other towns.
Good luck...

[Lakepilot]

We are on a "private road" in Wolfeboro. Of course we'd like the town to provide services to us so we've petitioned the town to make it a "public road". They claim a public road has to meet certain criteria and ours doesn't. We have an HOA and have for years. We get together twice per year and talk about road stuff. Without an HOA, some folks won't want to pay for plowing or up keep or whatever. With an HOA, everybody is equal.

A few years ago we decided the road should be paved. We hired a contractor and paved it at our cost. 10 years later it still looks great. Much better then any other "town" road. Since we're private we get no trash collection, sewer, plowing, grading or any other service normally provided by the town. They do provide summer water though, which for us year round residents doesn't mean much.

In summary, we do a much better job managing and maintaining our road then the town ever would. I just wish the taxes reflected the fact we get almost nothing from the town, compared to those living on a public road in down town Wolfeboro. You really would benefit from having an HOA.

[tummyman]

Our road was thought to be a public road, but after lots of research, we actually found a deed as to who owned it...a private person, not the town. A HOA is a good idea. The one thing that has not been mentioned here but is the biggest worry is liability if someone is hurt/injured on the private road that YOU are now maintaining. The lawyers will look to you for negligence in maintaining a safe roadway if someone gets hurt. Your homeowners insurance does not cover you unless the road cuts through your deeded lot, as insurance usually stops at your property lines. We did find that by having a HOA, we could then purchase a comprehensive general liability policy to cover us. Costs are not huge for $1M of coverage. Without a HOA, you cannot get the insurance, as individuals cannot insure something they do not own. There are lots and lots of HOA in NH. Go to the State of NH Web site or the NH Secretary of State home page and you can search for Non Profit corporations. Their By-laws and articles of incorporation are all there to see and use. Costs are fairly low to incorporate. Read through a number of them...some are simple and others more complex. It's all about liability that you need to protect yourself from. This is a big deal !

[loneskier]

My parents have a house on that road so I know what you are talking about. The biggest problem I see is that there are not that many full time people on that road. We use the house almost every weekend year round as do our next door neighbors. The first two houses on the left as you drive towards the lake are year round residents. There was talk of having a meeting memorial weekend but it never happened. I monitor this site so I will let you know if I hear anything.

[lawn psycho]

If the road is indeed private, I would strart finding out real fast what the easements are (in writing). Do not go by any assumptions or "local knowledge" especially if you don't have road frontage to a public road.

I've seen a situation where a road that was thought to be a public road was in fact private. One of the interior lots did not have an easement and resulted in a very lengthy court battle for the property holders. In the end, the guy was landlocked and had to pay money to get back what he previously thought was an easement. It wasn't cheap. Those guys don't talk to each other any more either:laugh:

[Kamper]

Even if you do get insurance, consider putting up a sign along the lines of...

"Private Road. Pass at own risk."

This advisory probably does not completely absolve you and the neighbors of liability but it may discourage "Sunday Drivers," and who knows, someone who does get stuck in a pot-hole might just decide it ws their own fault after getting this fair-warning.

Good luck!

[SAMIAM]

Our road in Meredith was a town dirt road that was plowed and graded regularly but, still was a dust bowl in the summer and a mud hole every spring. We tried to get the town to pave it but it were told it was not a priority so everyone on the road got together, got an estimate and paid for the job ourselves. A few neighbors declined so they got a free ride but at least we now have a nice paved road.

[Misty Blue]

Our road(s) is a private road. Always been.

We have always been responsible for it's upkeep. But the town does have some responsibility.

They don't have to maintain it but they HAVE to get EMS, fire trucks, ambulance, etc. down the road. That is why the have to plow. But that comes with responsibilities for you.

For them to plow the road must be a given width and have brush cleared on both sides for the plow truck. That is up to you.

As for the set up of an association...

Since I am a full time resident and a bit of an Alpha, I was approached to run an association to cover the maintainance bills. That, in really means a checkbook. So to start everyone on the road gave me a check (made out to me) and I pooled it to create a new checking account.

Problem #1. To open the account you need a SSN or FID number. To establish a FID would take an accoutant and a bunch of work so I just opened it with my SSN. The account is not in my name.

Every year I assess the owners enough to maintain the account with enough to pay for next year with little to spare. I have never had a problem getting the doe from the people. They are just glad that the road is being maintained and they don't have to deal with it.

Some people have warned me about using my SSN but I am not affraid of lawyers (sorry Skip) and if anything is going to get done, someone has to run with the ball.

'Hope this helps.

Misty Blue

[newbie]

We are on a "private road" in Wolfeboro. Of course we'd like the town to provide services to us so we've petitioned the town to make it a "public road". They claim a public road has to meet certain criteria and ours doesn't. We have an HOA and have for years. We get together twice per year and talk about road stuff. Without an HOA, some folks won't want to pay for plowing or up keep or whatever. With an HOA, everybody is equal.

A few years ago we decided the road should be paved. We hired a contractor and paved it at our cost. 10 years later it still looks great. Much better then any other "town" road. Since we're private we get no trash collection, sewer, plowing, grading or any other service normally provided by the town. They do provide summer water though, which for us year round residents doesn't mean much.

In summary, we do a much better job managing and maintaining our road then the town ever would. I just wish the taxes reflected the fact we get almost nothing from the town, compared to those living on a public road in down town Wolfeboro. You really would benefit from having an HOA.


Lakepilot

We are in the exact same situation and about half of the street contributes, but the other half seem to be on a permanent free ride. We have a road association but not an HOA. I think that means Home owners Association, but how do we go about it and how can we force it on everyone. Please help

Thanks

[wifi]

....and how can we force it on everyone....

If its not in the deed when your neighbors bought their place, good luck forcing bills on them....

[lawn psycho]

Lakepilot

We are in the exact same situation and about half of the street contributes, but the other half seem to be on a permanent free ride. We have a road association but not an HOA. I think that means Home owners Association, but how do we go about it and how can we force it on everyone. Please help

Thanks

If it were me and some places were using the free ride, I would make sure the plow trucks know where to pile the snow:laugh:

It's a shame people can't do the honorable thing but this doesn't suprise me. Everybody wants someone else to pay.

You have to look at the legal documents as far as easements go. Even absent an HOA, their can be certain requirements for the maintenance of the easements such as draining and grading.

I can understand if a group wanted to pay for the paving when others where fine with gravel. But the upkeep of the road (plowing, culverts, ditches, etc) should be shared and I would be miffed at people taking the free ride. Certainly worth having an attorney review the documents for the easement.

[onthebay]

My parents have a house on that road so I know what you are talking about. The biggest problem I see is that there are not that many full time people on that road. We use the house almost every weekend year round as do our next door neighbors. The first two houses on the left as you drive towards the lake are year round residents. There was talk of having a meeting memorial weekend but it never happened. I monitor this site so I will let you know if I hear anything.


Could you PM me with your parents name or number? I am trying to get in touch with anybody to see what is going on.

[onthebay]

We have a situation similar but the town isn't changing the status on our road.
First if the frontage of your house uses the current road then it is in fact a road.
If your road frontage is on an existing road then they can opt out of responsibility.
But to the best of my knowledge and this info came from our surveyor, a town cannot discontinue a road and turn it into a right of way if your deed considers it as road frontage.
Also I do snow plowing in the Laconia area and would be happy to look at and give you an estimate on your plowing needs.

I know we will be needing estimates for the upcoming season. PM me an I will give you the details. Maybe you can drive down take a look and put together a quote...

[LIforrelaxin]

onthebay,

You are in a tough spot. I would go directly to the town, and get an understanding of what is going on with your specific road. As others have said, once it is classified as a public road, they can't just tell you, nope sorry it is private. Now what they can tell you, is that they will not pay for grading, or snow plowing. especially if there are no year around residents on the road. It may still be a public road, it just may have just change classifications, to a class of roads, that are not supported in the town budget for maintenance.
But you really need to talk to the town to understand what is going on.

now as for forming an HOA... well there are legalities in that... and everyone on the road would have to agree to it. And then everyone would have to further agree to have their respective deeds updated to include the HOA. Although it is not mind blowing, there is a lot of legal work to creating an HOA, especially one that will be able to enforce its rules, and make people pay.

[GoSnow]

There is a road in Windham that was treated by the town as a public road and the town attempted to stop maintenance & declare it a private road. The home owners sued the town & won. Because the town had set a precedence of maintaining the road, the court declared they must accept it as a public road and continue to maintain it. If you would like to research it, the case was held in the Rockingham County Court during the summer of 1989, the road is Doiron Road. The town appealed the ruling & lost again.

[songkrai]

Who actually owns the road?
Some deeds will state that you have a right to travel on this road - or right of way. Some deeds state that you own half way to middle of road on with your property. Some roads are owned by a third party who has no property on road.

Most towns now are not plowing or maintaining private roads to cut costs and lower budgets.

You may be entitled to a tax abatement for the services that they took away.

Making the road a town/city road can be quite expensive. All new culverts, possibly widening the road. Making the base of road so much crushed stone, gravel etc.

Then in most towns - the voters have to vote to accept the road.

In my little hamlet I have seen people construct a new road in conjunction and consultation with the town Road Agent. And actually bring to road up to and better then town standards only to have the voters at town meeting reject the road.

But the bottom line is you purchased a home on a private road. That is why I highly recommend a lawyer for the buyer when purchasing any home at any time.