High tech logging

[loggerdan1]

People of the Lakes Region need to know this ! There are large logging co. From out of the area destroying our forest ! They have nothing to lose ! They just leveled a tract of land off of Bernard ridge road in Meredith.. They are from Me. Here is the problem: How and hell can they move onto a timber lot that has maybe $20,000 to $30,000 worth of timber on it with millions of dollars worth of equipment? It doesn't make sense ! Secondly they don't live around here so the money doesn't go back into the local economy come on folks there are plenty of local logging co. That can do the work ! You don't have to go to Maine to find one ! Also the tops and branches that they are chipping up belong left in the forest not in the back of a box truck ! After all you are only getting pennies for them anyway ! Yes they will try to sell you on no mess left behind when the truth in the matter is the forest will benifit more from the slash left behind period ! Ask them what they get for a load of chip's anywhere from $700 to $1,000 all the sudden the $70.00 to $90.00 you get doesn't seem so fair. Why should you finance their equipment ! If you hired a reputible local logging contractor I gaurantee you that in the end you will put more money in your pocket ! I have been logging for over 30 years and have seen it all and the number one reason that I believe the slash should be left behind is for the deer ! When the snow gets deep like it has been for the last few years the deer browse on my top's for food the large logging co. take everything out of the wood's therefor the deer go hungry ! Please consider having your forest harvested by a local convential logger: Money stay's local and goes back into the local economy,you will get more utilization out of your wood therefor more money in your pocket, the wildlife will benifit greatly. Any question's please feel free to contact me.

Thank You,

Dan Burbank
Moultonborough,NH
danielpburbank@gmail.com

[wifi]

I understand your desire to keep money local, but isn't there a state logging permit from a state Forest Ranger required (for more than 5 trees), and towns add their own rules? Its not like the logging is kept secret, AFAIK.

[loggerdan1]

No! Foresters put out the bids to their favorites and in my opinion are just as guilty for letting them do it. there are no laws that say you need to take out all the slash and there have been study's done suggesting that leaving the slash behind is the best forestry practice.

[Marauder]

I understand your desire to keep money local, but isn't there a state logging permit from a state Forest Ranger required (for more than 5 trees), and towns add their own rules? Its not like the logging is kept secret, AFAIK.

It is private property and they used a NH Licensed Forester, just to let you know!

[Sue Doe-Nym]

By far the worst example of going out of state was the Lakes Region Conservation Trust. Over the past seveal years they have used a logger(s) from Maine to do extensive logging on their Castle in the Clouds property in Tuftonboro and Moultonboro. Nice to remove property from the tax rolls, refuse to make payments in lieu of taxes, and then give business to out of state businesses. Great way to give back to your lacal community.

[Belmont Resident]

Logging outfits have someone looking for lots all over the country ALL the time.
They search communities for lots containing large tracts of harvestable timber then they approach the property owner with an offer. There is nothing illegal about it, they are well within their rights. We see it all the time when we are riding snowmobiles and ATV’s in northern Maine. I can’t tell you how many clear cut areas I’ve seen with not a living tree on it. Someone once told me that if runoff is not a problem then clear cutting is actually healthy and will promote a better growth in the future. Not sure if its true or not.
The sad things is that many abutting land owners know nothing about rules governing logging and before they realize their property has been destroyed the loggers are gone. It happened to us and it was a local logger from Tilton who did the logging abutting our property.

As for the lakes region conservation they have been a topic many times, and since I have nothing good to say about them I’ll leave it at that.

[loggerdan1]

I will try to explain myself better as some readers seem to be missing my point: forester's are just as guilty as the logging contractor's that they hire. They could very easily find a local logging contractor to operate a local project. Most landowner's (after) they do a timber harvest find it hardly worth it by the time they pay taxes on the timber 10% to the state of nh another 20% capital gain's and yet another 20% for a consulting forester wow 50% gone! This doesn't seem very fair.

This is where the local recommended loggers come's in. He will take the time to cut the log's to grade with his chainsaw not some mechanical device that just wack's the log's off where ever just ask a local saw mill where the best grade log's come from they will undoubtly tell you that log's cut to grade by a man with a chainsaw. Chosing a qualified logger you can save the 20% that a consulting forester charge's just get references ! The larger co. do not take the time to do any of this they just need to fill quota's ! Don't fall for the forester trying to sell you on the slash thing as i previously mentioned leaving the slash in the wood's is not only the best method for the forest it benefit's the wildlife especially the deer during the long winter month's.

Bottom line local logger's will spend money at local business's, pay taxes locally that benefit our school's and local business's and if there is a problem you won't have to go to Maine to find them ! Please think before you ink !!

[VitaBene]

If you are looking for a local logger, please consider the Bovill Bro.s out of Moultonborough. David and Bruce Bovill comprise this two man operation.

call Bruce Bovill -Bovill Bros. Logging, Inc.
PO Box 1036 Moultonboro NH 03254
603-427-4087 603-253-8794

[lawn psycho]

The problem is not just in NH. We just had a NH logging company that cleared off several large tracts that a guy in the area owns. Apparently he needed the money. The also took all the chips away. I was able to actually get some of the clean chips from them for $0 however:D

I don't know about the slash from a forestry management perspective. However, I do wonder if leaving it makes those areas more prone to fire as it creates a tinder-box.

[loggerdan1]

Until recent year's logging has been done the same way for hundred's of years (with the exception of skidder's and chain saw's) cut the tree down leave the slash in the wood's. Bio mess (bio mass) is fairly new to the industry 30 year's or so. My point is I can't remember the state burning down because of leaving the slash in the wood's. After all most of the tree is utilized down to 4" therefor not much is left behind.

I Would be more then glad to walk over anyone's timber lot ( no cost no obligation ) and give them an honest opinion of what they have and what to expect for proceed's from a timber harvest. Bruce Bovil is my neighbor and has been logging probaly as long as I have we share logging stories all the time and he and his Brother David are more then qualified to do timber harvesting ! Please keep it local !! Think before you ink !!!

Dan Burbank
Logger 35 year's
Moultonborough, NH
603.236.6749

[GM doc]

People of the Lakes Region need to know this ! There are large logging co. From out of the area destroying our forest ! They have nothing to lose ! They just leveled a tract of land off of Bernard ridge road in Meredith.. They are from Me. Here is the problem: How and hell can they move onto a timber lot that has maybe $20,000 to $30,000 worth of timber on it with millions of dollars worth of equipment? It doesn't make sense ! Secondly they don't live around here so the money doesn't go back into the local economy come on folks there are plenty of local logging co. That can do the work ! You don't have to go to Maine to find one ! Also the tops and branches that they are chipping up belong left in the forest not in the back of a box truck ! After all you are only getting pennies for them anyway ! Yes they will try to sell you on no mess left behind when the truth in the matter is the forest will benifit more from the slash left behind period ! Ask them what they get for a load of chip's anywhere from $700 to $1,000 all the sudden the $70.00 to $90.00 you get doesn't seem so fair. Why should you finance their equipment ! If you hired a reputible local logging contractor I gaurantee you that in the end you will put more money in your pocket ! I have been logging for over 30 years and have seen it all and the number one reason that I believe the slash should be left behind is for the deer ! When the snow gets deep like it has been for the last few years the deer browse on my top's for food the large logging co. take everything out of the wood's therefor the deer go hungry ! Please consider having your forest harvested by a local convential logger: Money stay's local and goes back into the local economy,you will get more utilization out of your wood therefor more money in your pocket, the wildlife will benifit greatly. Any question's please feel free to contact me.

Thank You,

Dan Burbank
Moultonborough,NH
danielpburbank@gmail.com

I don't think a one or two man operation can handle a 60-100+ acre logging operation in a timely manor do you? Wood chips sell so there IS A MARKET for them. Pallet makers buy bull pine, good for nothing else! Time is money and that is all.
A one man operation is only good for select cutting an acre to 3.
I LOVE to see a JD648 with 4-5 TREES coming out of the woods. PRICELESS.
Plus, trees grow back. like a weed.

[loggerdan1]

Trees may grow back like weeds and that exactly what you get after a chipping operation comes in WEEDS! junk wood grey birch,soft maple. and the tops are more valuble left behind then gobbled up by some chipper ! the market that chips are good is the contractor thats trying to pay for his over priced logging operation that he choose to buy ! its safe to say that in the end the landowner typically splits the log value why don't the bio mass guys start splitting the chips with the landowner? I didn't think so. Also why do the large Co. need a 37-40 inch chipper? there is no need to chip anything over 4-6 inches as there is a lot more money in round wood to the landowner then chips. they are chipping a lot of log wood in those stupid things and I have seen it first hand myself !!

[GM doc]

Trees may grow back like weeds and that exactly what you get after a chipping operstion comes in WEEDS! junk wood grey birch,soft maple. and the tops are more valuble left behind then gobbled up by some chipper ! the market that chips are good is the contractor thats trying to pay for his over priced logging operation that he choose to buy ! its safe to say that in the end the landowner typically splits the log value why don't the bio mass guys start splitting the chips with the landowner? I didn't think so. Also why do the large Co. need a 37-40 inch chipper? there is no need to chip anything over 4-6 inches as there is a lot more money in round wood to the landowner then chips. they are chipping a lot of log wood in those stupid things and I have seen it first hand myself !!

So "junk wood" isn't good for the woodchip fired power plants?
I guess you use an axe an an ox to harvest trees correct? Then hand split the little limbs for fire wood too.
Come on man, watching a whole tree get chipped up in a minute is AWESOME!!!! (and is money in the trailer)

OH, Do you cut your grass?

[SAMIAM]

I disagree about the wisdom of leaving slash in the woods.It might make the birds and the bugs happy but not the landowner.I had a 5 acre lot logged a few years ago and let him leave the slash.....huge mistake.You can't even walk on the property there are so many branches,limbs,and dead wood.It's a mess.

[lawn psycho]

I don't think a one or two man operation can handle a 60-100+ acre logging operation in a timely manor do you? Wood chips sell so there IS A MARKET for them. Pallet makers buy bull pine, good for nothing else! Time is money and that is all.
A one man operation is only good for select cutting an acre to 3.
I LOVE to see a JD648 with 4-5 TREES coming out of the woods. PRICELESS.
Plus, trees grow back. like a weed.

There is definitely a market for chips:D I have over 10000 sq ft of flower and shrub beds and if I used the overpriced stuff from the nursery (even at the wholesale prices that I get) it would cost me a fortune every year.

I hawk the area and any time I see the local tree guys doing a job I get them to deliver chips. I've also got one guy who knows I take them and will call me every now and then seeing if I want them.

The big guys with the logging skidders, huge chippers, tractor trailers have even pointed the chute into my truck bed to give me a load. Of course they tell me any damage to the back window is on me:eek:

Personally I don't like the look of a clear lot when they leave the slash. I have no idea what is considered best practice from a forestry management perspective. I will say that when it's left alone that the trees do seem to grow back quicker than you would think.

And for those who think only the colored chips look good, here's a picture of one of my shrub beds using mixed chips (hard and softwood). http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=15898&ppuser=11811

My neighbor who used to insist on the $40/yard dark brown chips has switched all his beds to natural chips after seeing me do mine. Price is right baby! And if anyone says they suck nitrogen from the plant, I have lush healthy plants to prove otherwise. I put all my chips down right off the truck when the wood is green too.

[TiltonBB]

Interesting thoughts but isn't this just a local guy with a chainsaw complaining because he cannot compete with the big guys? (WalMart syndrome)

Apparently someone needed some land cleared and made a business decision to use someone besides him and he is not happy with the decision. You can't tell from the information posted whether the decision to use the larger company was based on price, quality, or service but the complaint just reads like an ad for someone's tree service.

Why else would you put in your phone number and offer a free appraisal/estimate? That, coupled with the fact that he just joined the forum in Feburary 2011 seems a little fishy.

Hey, haven't we seen this act before?

Just what it sound like to me, I could be wrong.

[Sunbeam lodge]

Interesting thoughts but isn't this just a local guy with a chainsaw complaining because he cannot compete with the big guys? (WalMart syndrome)

Apparently someone needed some land cleared and made a business decision to use someone besides him and he is not happy with the decision. You can't tell from the information posted whether the decision to use the larger company was based on price, quality, or service but the complaint just reads like an ad for someone's tree service.

Why else would you put in your phone number and offer a free appraisal/estimate? That, coupled with the fact that he just joined the forum in Feburary 2011 seems a little fishy.

Hey, haven't we seen this act before?

Just what it sound like to me, I could be wrong.

How do use the "thank you for this post" response ?

[MarkinNH]

How do use the "thank you for this post" response ?

Click on the Blue "Thanks" button with the Thumbs up symbol, that is in the lower right corner of the post you wish to say Thanks to.

[Sunbeam lodge]

Click on the Blue "Thanks" button with the Thumbs up symbol, that is in the lower right corner of the post you wish to say Thanks to.

I dont seem to have a thumbs up Blue thanks button

[Sunbeam lodge]

I dont seem to have a thumbs up Blue thanks button Just an edit and a quote button No Icon has a thumbs up. It has to be here somewhere?

[upthesaukee]

Sunbeam Lodge...if you do not have a thanks button next to the quote button, I would email our intrepid webmaster.

Those two buttons should be in the lower right corner of the thread you are looking at and either wish to quote or say "Thanks".

[Rusty]

Just an edit and a quote button No Icon has a thumbs up. It has to be here somewhere?

When you are signed in go to the post that you want to thank and the button will be in the lower right hand corner of that post.

Like this:

http://localhostr.com/file/aToy7lc/Thumbs%202%20Up_800x205.JPG

[TiltonBB]

When you are signed in go to the post that you want to thank and the button will be in the lower right hand corner of that post.

Like this:

http://localhostr.com/file/aToy7lc/Thumbs%202%20Up_800x205.JPG

See if you can get that fixed right away. I could use that pat on the back!

[Winnisquamguy]

There is definitely a market for chips:D I have over 10000 sq ft of flower and shrub beds and if I used the overpriced stuff from the nursery (even at the wholesale prices that I get) it would cost me a fortune every year.


My neighbor who used to insist on the $40/yard dark brown chips has switched all his beds to natural chips after seeing me do mine. Price is right baby! And if anyone says they suck nitrogen from the plant, I have lush healthy plants to prove otherwise. I put all my chips down right off the truck when the wood is green too.

The problem you have when you use wood chips like that over the mulch is bugs, and termites. You have to be very careful where you put them, its not good to put them around your foundation for instance. You might be saving money but it COULD become costly if you get a bug problem.

[lawn psycho]

The problem you have when you use wood chips like that over the mulch is bugs, and termites. You have to be very careful where you put them, its not good to put them around your foundation for instance. You might be saving money but it COULD become costly if you get a bug problem.

Termites in Maine? Not likely. "Bugs" are your friend as it means healthy soil. Also, I have 20 inches of gravel between the much beds and foundation as that's where the drip line from the roof hits. Not to mention I have granite steps both front and rear and instead of a deck I have a cobblestone patio. I'd like to see the termites eat those:laugh:

I actually spend time trying to increase my "bug" population for the sake of a show quality lawn. There are a lot of myths about wood chips that have been proven false by peer-reviewed University trials.

[fatlazyless]

Locally, there's the Bridgwater Power plant (no website) near Rt 93-Exit 24 which is where 53' van trailers loaded with wood chips go to sell their wood chip loads. It produces electro-magnetic energy, aka "electricity," powered up by burning woodchips.

Anyone know how much a loaded 53' van trailer, full of wood chips, will receive in payment?

Also locally, there's the www.cersosimolumber.com with locations in Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts and New York. Locally, they have sawmill businesses in Wentworth which is Rt 93-Exit 26 or 28, and in Tamworth.

Anyone know what they pay for sawmill logs just as a talking average to get an idea?

Are there any NH paper mills left that take pulp logs or have they all been closed up?

Is it viable to turn pulp logs into electricity now that so many paper mills have been closed after about 125-years of paper making in NH? As a business, Electricity must be just like green cash because it is automatically exchanged and accepted immediately into an infinite market for electricity. There's probably never a problem with selling electricity.....it goes into the grid.....and its' all very mysterious how that all works and this computer would not be working too good without electricity....and guess what happens when you do not pay your electric bill after about three months?

[jmen24]

I disagree about the wisdom of leaving slash in the woods.It might make the birds and the bugs happy but not the landowner.I had a 5 acre lot logged a few years ago and let him leave the slash.....huge mistake.You can't even walk on the property there are so many branches,limbs,and dead wood.It's a mess.

Samiam, I could not agree more with your feelings that goes for the hunters as well.

The statement that the slash is food for deer is a funny one and one that is made, thinking that most folks don't spend any time in the woods around here.

Unless the tops are laid in the fall, most of all the food supply is gone by the time winter comes around and this food source is only availabel for one winter season. Then anyone that walks that property has to wait close to 10 years for the majority of the slash to decay enough to walk through.

Leaving the slash behind IMO is the lazy man's way of keeping his costs low.

Charge a decent rate to cover your costs and allow for profit to purchase the equipment that will allow you to compete with the larger companies. If you don't want to go the route of being a larger operation, that's fine too, but don't complain when others do and start to bury you in production. Keep up your game and you will be fine, just don't try to compete directly with them. I work in a similar industry and understand your frustrations, but you will not stop it from happening and allowing yourself to get stressed enough to come on here to critisize will do nothing for your blood pressure. Just remember why you started in the game to begin with and get back to that. Then enjoy everyday out in the woods.

[loggerdan1]

Just this morning I had 17 deer feeding on my tops that I'd left last friday. I was about to cut some more trees and didn't for fear of hitting them they were so close they were waiting for me to cut down more trees!! So don't anyone out there tell me that the deer don't depend on the tops for winter browsing !! get off your butts and come out and have a look for yourself !! and then and only then will your opinion matter !!!

[lawn psycho]

Where's the eating popcorn emoticon when you need it? Don, can you please add one?

[SIKSUKR]

I think peoples opinion only matter if they agree with you. You can't make people like spinach by pushing their face in it and yelling eat! If anything you've alienated people that had open minds at the beginning of this thread.

[Winnisquamguy]

Termites in Maine? Not likely. "Bugs" are your friend as it means healthy soil. Also, I have 20 inches of gravel between the much beds and foundation as that's where the drip line from the roof hits. Not to mention I have granite steps both front and rear and instead of a deck I have a cobblestone patio. I'd like to see the termites eat those:laugh:

I actually spend time trying to increase my "bug" population for the sake of a show quality lawn. There are a lot of myths about wood chips that have been proven false by peer-reviewed University trials.
I was just not speaking about you, I was talking in general its not a good thing to do. YOU also mentioned you have 20" between the chips, and the foundation, again I, was just stating in general its not good to put the chips directly against the foundation! And yes bugs are great for your lawn.

[Winnisquamguy]

Anyone know how much a loaded 53' van trailer, full of wood chips, will receive in payment?

Its been a few years but they were paying about $20.00 a ton and a trailer holds 23-25 tons. There is also another plant up in Whitefield, NH

[jmen24]

Just this morning I had 17 deer feeding on my tops that I'd left last friday. I was about to cut some more trees and didn't for fear of hitting them they were so close they were waiting for me to cut down more trees!! So don't anyone out there tell me that the deer don't depend on the tops for winter browsing !! get off your butts and come out and have a look for yourself !! and then and only then will your opinion matter !!!

Your right buddy, those deer will have food for years to come on those tops you just dropped. Next time if you ask nicely, I would be willing to bet that they would move off to the side so you can work and collect a days pay. Apparently if you were more worried about making money and not feeding deer you would have never even started this thread.

Man, I wasn't even against you, at all. I disagreed with you about how long that food source sticks around and you proved my point, tops you cut last week. What about the tops you cut last summer or three years ago? The material is still there, but where's the food?

Your not the only person that spends considerable time in the woods. Your solution is short term gain, long term loss.

"they were so close they were waiting for me to cut down more trees!!":laugh:

[loggerdan1]

Glad you mentioned it ! Instead of being thrown into a boiler they are decomposing like mother nature intended !! Becoming future top soil , FOOD FOR INSECTS,which is the exact point I have been trying to make thank you for bringing my point to light ! Your not as dumb as you sound.

[jmen24]

Create habitat instead of a multi-acre mess, then you and I are in complete agreement. I don't care if you leave the tops, just clean it up so it is usable, by the landowner and hunters. At the same time you create habitat for rabbit, fowl, and other small game, while it is taking the better part of a decade to decay.

As a hunter I appreciate you feeding the deer, just keep us in mind when you take that last look at the lot before leaving. Dragging a deer across 2 acres of tops and slash is not a fun time. Work with other people, then everyone is happy.

[loggerdan1]

i have hunted my entire life as does my father,brother,nephews and my three sons. we all own land here in north central,nh we also respect wildlife and their surroundings. if you get the chance view local logging projects both convential and bio mass then let me know which operation has more deer. remember my problem with bio mass is not just concern about deer its the fact that the timber in nh is being depleted at an alarming rate just go to any saw mill and ask them what the average dia. of a log was 30 years ago compared to today. as for leaving the slash if done properly you can't tell the difference between bio mass and convential. the writer in a earlier post with five acres of land well five acres is not really considered a timber lot it is more of a yard and probably would be considered a service rather then a logging project. did he get paid for any timber i wonder? if he did he should not be complaining about brush. no bio mass operation is going to come out and do a harvest on such a small piece of land. after all they have millions of dollars invested. so for you with the five acres shame on you you shouldn't have been so cheap and hired someone to take the trees down in your back yard and if you want to have a real timber harvest done well you'll have to by a real piece of land !!:cheers:

[Jonas Pilot]

Dan, they won't listen if you yell.

[Rusty]

loggerdan1,

I'm sure you read the Forum Rules (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/faq.php?s=&do=search&q=moderate&match=all&titlesonly=0)before posting here, but if not I thought I would show you why you shouldn't post in all caps:


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