Bad gas

[Formula]

Has anyone had a problem with there car after filling up late last week at Murphy's Irving on Rt 25 at the neck road?
My wife filled-up Thursday night and drive it about a total of 20 miles when the dash lite-up like a christmass tree and the engine keep stalling out. After speaking with the dealer on Monday monrning they needed to tow it. It looks like bad gas, maybe lots of water or other containments??.
Spoke with the owener and he stated that it was most likely not them as they had no other complaints!
They did end up replacing the one of the in-ground tanks and all of the feeder lines from the tanks to the pumps.

Any help would be appreciated

[Argie's Wife]

I'd think it would be pretty difficult to prove your bad gas came from Murphy's, not to mention gather any compensation from them for your repairs.

Also, the way you write your post it sounds like the incident happened last weekend, but then you write that Murphy's recently replaced one of their in-ground tanks, which doesn't happen overnight. So, what's the time-frame on this?

[Pepper]

As a general rule, if gasoline is contaminated with water, the car won't make it out of the gas station parking lot before the trouble is discovered. If their tanks had been contaminated, their lot would have been full of cars that wouldn't run, and tow trucks hauling them away. Twenty miles is a long way. I would guess the problem is something other than water in the fuel.

[VitaBene]

Murphy's is in the middle of a project to add diesel and replace some other equipment. I guess it is possible that there is some spare sediment loating around.

[Lakesrider]

One thing I always remind my wife of is to NEVER gas up at ANY gas station that has a delivery truck at it. When the delivery is made it makes all of the water and sediment stir up. There are supposed to be filters in the pumps. Now how often do you think those get cleaned? Yep Once a year.
I also tell my wife to always buy from the pump closest to the tanks. If you are buying premium.
One other thing If you believe you got water in your tank from their tanks, You are within your rights to have them do a stick test of the tank. Any reputable gas station will have a stick that they smear a paste onto. They put the stick into the tank. If there is water the paste will change color. If the paste changes color, You can get your refund or let them know you will be letting the division of standards know. Yes the same people that calibrate the pumps.
That in mind...cars today are notorious for computer malfunctions. My '06 Rav4 has 27 different computers. On winter mornings I had a hard time getting the thing to run and it would do what yours did. Several lights came on. even the traction control light. What would that have to do with the engine...who knows. Looks like you in for some fun at the dealers...:(

[Formula]

I'd think it would be pretty difficult to prove your bad gas came from Murphy's, not to mention gather any compensation from them for your repairs.

Also, the way you write your post it sounds like the incident happened last weekend, but then you write that Murphy's recently replaced one of their in-ground tanks, which doesn't happen overnight. So, what's the time-frame on this?

My wife filled- up on Thursday afternoon then drove the car to the end of the neck road. It sat until Sunday when she got as far as Jo-Jos and then it happened. I am guessing that is about 20 miles.
As for the tank replacement i am not sure when they replaced the tank and all piping but i was told that the pupms were down for a few days (not sure how many) and that they turned them back on Wednesday or Thursday. She uses premium fule only.

It is I think more than a coincidence that the dealer had to drain all of the fuel and stated that there is something in the fuel, (it was cloudy when drained and after sitting it sperated into two parts, clear on top cloudy on the bottom) and she filled up 20 miles prior:confused:

I am trying to find out what really happened and that is why i asked if anyone else had a simular problem.

Thanks again for everyones input.

[Irrigation Guy]

They added a diesel tank and repiped all the pumps. It rained for a few days during the time they did the work and they were shut down at least a couple days because of the rain. I suppose if water was somehow introduced to the tank and made it into your car it may have been mixed pretty well while she drove down the neck only to settle out to the bottom of the tank and be picked up by the fuel pump the next morning causing the issue.

Definately possible. One might expect more than just your car had a problem but if they denied the issue to the others too how would anyone else know?

[ApS]

Murphy's is in the middle of a project to add diesel and replace some other equipment. I guess it is possible that there is some spare sediment loating around.
A mix of gasoline and diesel will behave similarly to water-contamination of gasoline in a car.

[hancoveguy]

One thing I always remind my wife of is to NEVER gas up at ANY gas station that has a delivery truck at it. When the delivery is made it makes all of the water and sediment stir up. There are supposed to be filters in the pumps. Now how often do you think those get cleaned? Yep Once a year.
I also tell my wife to always buy from the pump closest to the tanks. If you are buying premium.
One other thing If you believe you got water in your tank from their tanks, You are within your rights to have them do a stick test of the tank. Any reputable gas station will have a stick that they smear a paste onto. They put the stick into the tank. If there is water the paste will change color. If the paste changes color, You can get your refund or let them know you will be letting the division of standards know. Yes the same people that calibrate the pumps.
That in mind...cars today are notorious for computer malfunctions. My '06 Rav4 has 27 different computers. On winter mornings I had a hard time getting the thing to run and it would do what yours did. Several lights came on. even the traction control light. What would that have to do with the engine...who knows. Looks like you in for some fun at the dealers...:(

As I have posted here before... I have hauled gas in bulk for many many years. I have loaded from almost every wholesaler in New England (Mobil, Valero, Irving, Shell etc) and delivered to hundreds of stations as well as pumping out (removing gas) from quite a few as well. The theory that you shouldn't get gas at a station when the truck is delivering is unfounded. the tanks are so big (in excess of 10k gallons usually) and the filtration systems are so closely monitored and regulated that it makes no difference if there is a truck delivering or not.

As far as water is concerned... there is an acceptable amount of water allowed in a tank before the company is required to remove it. In non ethanol stations it is not uncommon to have 2" of gas on the bottom of the tank. This will not effect the gas dispensed because the stem that feeds the pumps sits several inches off the bottom. The same is true for ethanol stations (99% of gas stations in New Hampshire and Mass) except the amount of allowable water is much much less because water/condensation in ethanol gas causes phase separation in the gas which chemically changes the compound from gas to a varnish like substance. This means different paste for the stick and a different level of filtration. As far as the gas at Murphy's goes... I fuel their almost exclusively and I have never had a problem but that is not to say that the original poster didn't have a water problem as a result of Murphy's gas. It sounds rather probable to me that something went wrong during the changeover and too much water got into the gas. If it was me I would pursue the matter with the station.

My .02 cents
HCG

[Belmont Resident]

I was having similar problems with gas around Laconia area several years back.
I switched to Irving’s fuel for both my Diesel truck and cars and have had no problems since. I specifically had problems at the Z1 on 106 in Concord and the Gilford Mobil. And Irving just happens to be one of the more stable priced stations around.
Also remember that your lower end gas stations like Cumberland Farms and such tend to get the cheaper grade of fuel from an article posted in Consumer reports. While your Mobile and Exxon dealers get what is called the top of the barrel. Not sure if the station in question is a brand name dealer or not.
Either way it’s a bummer because I have heard it’s not a cheap fix to clean out the fuel system unless they have come up with an additive that will stabilize the already bad fuel while it is in your system.

[secondcurve]

One thing I always remind my wife of is to NEVER gas up at ANY gas station that has a delivery truck at it. When the delivery is made it makes all of the water and sediment stir up. There are supposed to be filters in the pumps. Now how often do you think those get cleaned? Yep Once a year.
I also tell my wife to always buy from the pump closest to the tanks. If you are buying premium.
One other thing If you believe you got water in your tank from their tanks, You are within your rights to have them do a stick test of the tank. Any reputable gas station will have a stick that they smear a paste onto. They put the stick into the tank. If there is water the paste will change color. If the paste changes color, You can get your refund or let them know you will be letting the division of standards know. Yes the same people that calibrate the pumps.
That in mind...cars today are notorious for computer malfunctions. My '06 Rav4 has 27 different computers. On winter mornings I had a hard time getting the thing to run and it would do what yours did. Several lights came on. even the traction control light. What would that have to do with the engine...who knows. Looks like you in for some fun at the dealers...:(

Lakesider:

Hopefully, your wife will be able to grasp your advice soon. Keep reminding her. Your post makes it sound like she is a real slow top.

[Lakesrider]

Actually she is quite smart, just not good with car mechanical stuff....

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Formula,
Could she have filled with the wrong fuel? It seems they now have diesel where they didn't before. People will often pull up to "the same old pump" which may now be the diesel pump. A station near me has 2 double sided pumps on each island, 4 islands (4 cars per island) and one pump in one island is diesel. I have seen cars pull up to the wrong pump. Someone usually stops them before they get the wrong fuel. The owner did put an added sign to warn "diesel only" but that doesn't stop everybody.

[Mr. V]

I got a load of bad gas one time, and the problem became evident not immediately, but about five or so miles down the road.

Got towed back to the small town I was visiting and left the car with a mechanic, who discovered a lot of water.

I'd just fueled up at a local station, and had a receipt.

With my receipt and the repair invoice from the mechanic I had little difficulty persuading the insurance carrier of the gas station to settle up with me for all of my damages caused by the bad gas, both actual and consequential.

As with most things in life, remember these two important words: "Just ask."

[Woodsy]

The diesel nozzle is MUCH larger than a gasoline nozzle.... the diesel nozzle will not fit into a gasoline only tank....


My guess is its bad gas.... the new Cumby's in the Weirs had an issue last year and made it right by covering the costs of the repairs. (at least thats what the LaSun article at the time stated)


Woodsy

[NoBozo]

The Pump Nozzle for Diesel fuel is usually "Clad" with a GREEN rubber protector boot. Gasoline nozzles are "Clad" with BLACK rubber. :) NB

[dpg]

As a general rule, if gasoline is contaminated with water, the car won't make it out of the gas station parking lot before the trouble is discovered. If their tanks had been contaminated, their lot would have been full of cars that wouldn't run, and tow trucks hauling them away. Twenty miles is a long way. I would guess the problem is something other than water in the fuel.

No, not necessarily true...

[LIforrelaxin]

Formula,

If you truely believe you have an issue with bad gas that has come from Murphy's I would suggest the following:

1) get a sample of the gas removed from you tank to have it analyed

2) get in touch with a lawyer and find out what has to be done to get a sample from the tank at Murphies and have it analyzed, this needs to be done immediately.

3) see if there are commonalities that will allow a scientist to say the bad gas in your car came from the tanks at murphys

Now with that said, how much gas did you wife put in her car at murphy's to say she filled up is not enough information... also when was the last time she filed up and once again how much did she put in.

That you got a hold of bad gas is probably not in question, the question is where did it come from..... even if there was some moisture in the gas from Murphy's sitting for a few days over a weekend is probably not enough time for full phase separation to happen to the degree that it is going to cause you major problems. However if you got a hold of some bad gas a week or two ago and the problem has just been festering, a few days to allow some good separation to happen, may have just been the final straw.

[NoBozo]

If the dash lit up like a Christmas tree, and the car was towed to a garage, I would think the first thing that would be done is to Scan the cars OBD II computer for the problem. :look: NB

EDIT: I happened to be in a Toyota Service Dept. today to pick up some oil filters. I asked the service manager if the OBD II Computer can detect Water/Diesel fuel in the gas of a car that just stopped running. Apparently the codes that may appear will NOT indicate bad gas. :( NB

[ghfromaltonbay]

This past April I got a bad batch of gas at Cumberland Farms and my car died the following afternoon after going approx. 40 miles. My dashboard lit up with every symbol imaginable. The car is a 2010 Malibu which at the time had only 7500 miles on it. My car was towed on Saturday evening to Cantin Chevrolet to be serviced on Monday. On Sunday I happened to drive by the Cumberland Farms station using a borrowed vehicle from my good friends and saw 3 Petroleum services trucks working on the tanks and the station was shut down. I stopped in the store and told the assistant manager about my car and he almost threw me out of the store insisting it was an "electrical problem". I spoke with the men working outside and they told me the truth - they got a bad batch of gas on Friday afternoon and the station closed down by 9 pm. Unfortunately I bought gas at 7:15 and still had my receipt. I was so furious that I emailed the Laconia Citizen to tell my story. I was sure I wasn't the only customer who got the bad gas on Friday evening. Attached below is the article that appeared that Tuesday in the Citizen. On Monday I got the car back from Cantin and the service dept. also gave me a sample of the bad gas as proof. I returned to Cumbies and the Manager himself was there. He could not have been nicer. He took a copy of the Cantin bill and filled out a claim form which he forwarded to Corp. headquarters. The next day (Tues.) when I returned to NJ I got a call from headquarters, and a check for the full amount of the repairs ($280) was in my mailbox the following Monday along with a $25 gift card.


Motorist gets a case of bad gas
Laconia:

By GAIL OBER
gober@citizen.com


Tuesday, April 20, 2010
A poorly mixed batch of gasoline delivered to a Weirs gas station caused a headache for a New Jersey woman who, not realizing the problem, pumped some of the fuel into her new car.

Gail H. said she stopped by the Weir Beach Cumberland Farms store around 7 p.m. last Friday. She said she and at least two other motorists noticed the gas pumps were working very slowly so, after getting a little less than a gallon, she topped off her tank at another gas station.

She said she began having engine problems shortly thereafter and brought her car to Cantin Chevrolet.

Service Manager Steve Hurst said her "check engine" light was on and his repair was to remove the gas tank, empty it and clean the gas lines.

"Hopefully, the gas filter stopped whatever it was," Hurst said. "Whatever it was, we cleaned it."

Cumberland Farms spokeswoman Carin Warner confirmed Monday that there was a delivery of bad gasoline and, by 7:30 p.m. Friday the store manager had shut down all of the gas pumps and notified headquarters.

She said the company emptied all of the underground tanks, cleaned all of the lines and filters and reopened for gasoline service Sunday evening around 7:30 p.m.

Warner said anyone who pumped gas into their cars late Friday afternoon and thinks they are having problems should bring the repair receipts to the manager of the Weirs Cumberland Farm Store who will forward them to corporate headquarters for reimbursement.

"We absolutely want to make this right," Warner said.

"We care deeply about the quality of gas we deliver and, as soon as we realized there was a problem, we acted immediately," she said.

Ms. H. said she brought her receipts and a sample of the gas Cantin's took from her tank to the manager. She added that, as of Monday afternoon, her car was running fine.

It's now 6 months later and the car is still running fine thanks to Cantin's repair.

[Pepper]

This past April I got a bad batch of gas at Cumberland Farms and my car died the following afternoon after going approx. 40 miles. ...

Well then, I stand corrected. :blush:

[fatlazyless]

Sometime, maybe 6 months ago or so, the Cumberland Farms in the Weirs was running ads in the local LaDaSun & Citizen letting people know that they had received a bad tanker load of gasoline. It advised that anyone with bad gas related problems should let them know, bring related car repair receipts, and how people would get reimbursed. So's, just goes to show, at least one local gasoline seller, Cumberland Farms w/ Exxon or Gulf gas was good enough to stand up and do the right thing as opposed to deny...deny...deny any claims from customers.

Hello Cumberland............& goodbye Murphy's!

[Formula]

Go tthe car back two days ago. The total bill was about $700.00 that included 5 hours labor to drain the tank, "recycle" the bad gas, fill the tank with new gas, road test. Seams a little over priced.
The car is running perfect now. I did get about a pint of the old gas for show and tell! You can see the "other" fluid in the clear bottle. Once you shake it up, it blends all together and it is all cloudy. After sitting for an hour or so it seperates again. I hope to have it tested soon.
Then a conversation with the owner of the gas station again about making me whole.
Thanks for all of your inputs

[SAMIAM]

Formula, you must have gone to a dealership for that work. Every time I go for service they try to "upsell" me for some useless repair such as radiator flush, transmission fluid replacement, fuel injector cleaning etc, etc.
Recently, I needed brakes and rotors....they quoted $546.00 and I went to my local mechanic......same job just under $400. Same with an air filter.....Cantins wanted $45 and Irving charged me $25 for the same filter.
They told me I needed transfer case seals and I got a second opinion......they were not needed. They only "weeped" a few drops after towing my boat but were full and in perfect shape.
I don't mean to imply that they are dishonest. They are just trying to solicit work for the dealership and are charging top dollar.
I'm just going to get a second opinion any time I need work.

[fatlazyless]

I went to my local mechanic.........got any recommedations for a car like a "new" five year old Chevy Impala?

[Formula]

Formula, you must have gone to a dealership for that work. Every time I go for service they try to "upsell" me for some useless repair such as radiator flush, transmission fluid replacement, fuel injector cleaning etc, etc.
Recently, I needed brakes and rotors....they quoted $546.00 and I went to my local mechanic......same job just under $400. Same with an air filter.....Cantins wanted $45 and Irving charged me $25 for the same filter.
They told me I needed transfer case seals and I got a second opinion......they were not needed. They only "weeped" a few drops after towing my boat but were full and in perfect shape.
I don't mean to imply that they are dishonest. They are just trying to solicit work for the dealership and are charging top dollar.
I'm just going to get a second opinion any time I need work.

When we first had the problem we were not sure what the problem was and since the car was still under warranty and needed to be towed the thought was it was a warranty issue. After the dealer took the computer reading that is when we found out it was the gas and not covered under the warranty:(
The hope is that the gas station owner will be a stand-up guy and pay for the repairs. If not then i will need to tak it to the next level.

[ghfromaltonbay]

Well then, I stand corrected. :blush:

Pepper, maybe if I had gotten $20 worth of bad gas I would not have gotten far, but the problem was that by the time I bought gas at Cumbies the pump filters were already clogging up. I pumped just over 1 gallon of gas into my car which took more than 1 minute to do. I and another customer using the same pump on the other side both said there must be something wrong. He and I gave up and drove out. I then went to the Mobil across from Lowe's in Gilford and put $20 worth in to top off the tank. While I was there, the other Cumbie customer also pulled in and we chuckled that we both had the same idea. I still wonder to this day if that guy with the orange Charger also had a problem later. So, I had a mix of about 14 gallons of good gas and 1 gallon of bad gas in the tank. Maybe that's why I made it another 42 miles before the car died.

Cantin, I feel, did not gouge me at all compared with Formula's experience. They had to drop the tank, clean and drain it, put in 5 gallons of gas and road test - came to $280.14. Cumbie reimbursed the whole amount. Since I called GM roadside assistance I never was charged for the tow from the corner of Lily Pond Rd. & Route 11 to Cantin's. Thank goodness for OnStar. They were a real life saver. Nothing like breaking down 300 miles from home on a Saturday afternoon when the dealer was closed for the weekend. Thank goodness too for 2 of my favorite Forum Friends who came to my rescue!

[LIforrelaxin]

Go tthe car back two days ago. The total bill was about $700.00 that included 5 hours labor to drain the tank, "recycle" the bad gas, fill the tank with new gas, road test. Seams a little over priced.
The car is running perfect now. I did get about a pint of the old gas for show and tell! You can see the "other" fluid in the clear bottle. Once you shake it up, it blends all together and it is all cloudy. After sitting for an hour or so it seperates again. I hope to have it tested soon.
Then a conversation with the owner of the gas station again about making me whole.
Thanks for all of your inputs

Just be careful if you go to the "next level" that it is worth the effort and cost... if you have to go through legal actions to get back 700$ it just may not necessarily be worth it....

[SAMIAM]

Good luck with that, Formula........they are insured for that and he should make it right.
Fll....I go to Cantins for routine service so they can read out the computer but find that Red Hill Irving is at least 30% cheaper on repairs.

[Formula]

I was able to stop by and see the owner yesterday and he made full restitution no questions asked, no problems at all. I am impressed by the owners’ decision to do what is right. I waited for about 10 minutes and I had a check in my hand before I left the building. I understand these things happen, it is all about how you are treated and how the businees handles the situation. I can tell you that I will continue to give them all of my business.

Thanks for everyone’s comments and input!

[fatlazyless]

........1589 different views on bad gas at a local gas station, supposedly from 1589 different computer addresses and not just repeat viewers.......hmmmmm.....got to wonder if Murphy had seen this thread.....nobody one knows except for Murphy? Anyway....700 smackeroonies at Cantin's.....that sounds wicked high....must be those Cadillac prices...

[ghfromaltonbay]

........1589 different views on bad gas at a local gas station, supposedly from 1589 different computer addresses and not just repeat viewers.......hmmmmm.....got to wonder if Murphy had seen this thread.....nobody one knows except for Murphy? Anyway....700 smackeroonies at Cantin's.....that sounds wicked high....must be those Cadillac prices...

FLL,

Formula never mentioned which dealer charged him $700. It was I who had my car's gas tank cleaned at Cantin's for $280. Steve Hurst and his service dept. could not have been nicer, too. They open at 7:30 and my car was all set to go by 11:30 am.