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Old 07-30-2011, 09:00 PM   #401
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Thumbs up Skydive LACONIA, NEW Hampshire

I can understand that some would try to suggest other alternatives for the Noonans to open an skydiving operation.
Just who, in their right mind would try to deny them, in any neighborhood around this planet??

The Noonans typify ( World Class ) and fully deserve a place right here at LACONIA airport!!

Should/or would it be fair that the people of NH are Way and far behind future well being?? I think not...

Tom has ( And Very Eli quaintly and very Clearly Stated ) in post # 307-4/26/2011, some of where he came from, and will continue on to.
Quote; Speaking of human nature, let me try to put this in perspective for you.

Back in the 1800s, my great grand parents arrived in Boston from Ireland. When they arrived, do you think they were welcome? I can assure that they were not. They were repeatedly told they were not welcome and told to go home. They refused to accept the status quo and stayed. They were then relegated to tenement housing and back breaking labor, because the Irish were considered outsiders and second class citizens. As my grand parents were attempting to seek a better life and leave the tenement housing for the blue collar suburbs of Boston, they too were again told they were not welcome. They refused to let the will of others affect their futures. My parents carried that resolve further, wanting yet an even better life for their children, and did the same thing. They refused to accept the will of others telling them they were not welcome in higher social circles. See the pattern?

It's in my genes.

Our cause is just and our resolve is unconquerable. There will come a day when this process reaches an end. I can't promise that we will be victorious, but I can promise that we will never lay down for anyone and we will fight for what is right until the last bell is rung.

There is only one person that will determine the outcome of my life, my future and my American Dream, and that is me. I apologize if that has inconvenienced a few people on the LAA.

We all have dreams we believe in and are told by others to quit. Some quit, others fight. Those that choose to fight can understand our resolve. Those that choose to quit will never understand our resolve.

"I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul"

- W. Henley (from Invictus)
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:23 PM   #402
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Default Skydive Laconia

Hi VB,

Moultonborough is a beautiful community, but for the business model that we intend to pursue, the close proximity between Weirs Beach and the airport is critical.

While I am on here, I was actually in the area again this past weekend and ran into yet another private jet pilot, this one flies them all over New England as part of a fractional ownership company. He has flown into and out of Laconia many many times.

So......I asked the big questions:
1) Would you stop flying into or out of Laconia if there was a parachute operation landing parachutes on the airport?
Answer: (Again) "Are you kidding me? I'm a pilot, I can fly anywhere."
2) What about taxiing past parachutists as they walk across the field?
Answer: (Again) "I'm a pilot, I can taxi past anything. I do it whenever I fly into or out of any of the other airports with parachuting on them.
3) (My favorite question) Have you ever heard of an insurance policy preventing landing jets at an airport with an on airport parachute operation?
Answer: (Again......) "Seriously, are you kidding me? In my entire professional career, I have never heard of such a thing."


Why are all these pilot surveys so important to you, the citizens of the community that is supposed to be benefiting from your airport?

To date, in three+ years, I have only heard two jet pilots willing to go on record against landing at an airport with parachutes on it. Both pilots are associated with Sky Bright Aviation located on the airport. One is the owner and the other pilot flies for him......... Other than that, I have never heard of a jet pilot with concerns about landing at an airport with an on airport skydiving operation.

For those of you that were at that first meeting in Dec 2008 you would have remembered a pilot of Sky Bright Aviation tell the LAA and all those in attendance about how she was startled (or surprised) by the presence of an onsite parachute operation at an airport located in Belmar, NJ.

The short version of the story is that while landing a private jet at Belmar, NJ, the pilot did not know there was a dropzone there and was surprised to see parachutes landing on the airport and had to make some heading correction to account for the parachutes.

Here is the factual truth to that story, and anyone that was there that night and was/is willing to stand up for the truth, will agree: The pilot stated that she was surprised by the parachutes (or some word similar to surprised). She stated that she was unaware of any parachute activity in the area, was coming in for landing, saw parachutes, and was startled, flying someone's multimillion dollar airplane......

The truth: Belmar, NJ has had a permanent NOTAM for skydiving for like the last 15-20 years. It's in all the charts. When pilots are doing their flight planning, they are supposed to check the charts of the airports they are flying into before they fly into it..... If the charts were checked ahead of time, there would be no way for the pilot to be surprised to find parachutes in the pattern or on an airport with a parachute center. The only way to be surprised, is not to know there is a parachute center there in the first place. The only way not to know that is to not check your charts before you file your flight plan.

Now, even if the pilot forgot to check the charts ahead of time, or even if she did, and simply failed to see the large parachute over the airport indicating that the airport has a permanent skydiving NOTAM, the skydiving aircraft pilots at Belmar, NJ broadcast every take off on the local frequency, call 2 minutes prior to drop to all aircraft on the same frequency and again announce when they drop skydivers "Skydivers in the air over Belmar, NJ, 10,000ft and below, use caution" or something to that effect.

So.......Why wasn't anyone in the flight crew of that multimillion dollar jet listening to the local frequency when approaching a non-towered executive airport? If they had been listening, again, there would have been no way to be surprised by the parachutes in the air. They would have known ahead of time.

So.........the reason I share this story now, is that it brings up an important issue.

To all of those in attendance that night in December 2008, they were treated to a genuine "Oh my goodness" story about a pilot that was startled by parachutes while flying a private jet.

The truth is, she never once said "I knew parachutes were there and I looked for them and couldn't see them." She stated something to the effect that she was unaware there was parachutes landing on the airfield and was startled when she saw one in flight.

(And for those of you following along back home, I believe that very story was even quoted in one of the local papers at the time.)

And that story was supposed to scare everyone in attendance into believing private jets and parachutes can't mix on the same airfield.

So again, I state for the record, I have never met a private jet pilot without direct ties to the Laconia airport that has ever had any issue whatsoever with flying into or out of Laconia if there is a parachute operation on the airfield.

Funny though, how this FBO with the photo of a jet colliding with a tandem skydiving pair in their window and the LAA want you to believe jets and skydiving are such a terrible combination.

Remember the airport belongs to the community, the community does not belong to the airport........

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:32 PM   #403
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Moultonborough airport is a ghosttown. Not the model for a sucessfull parachuting business! Everytime I drive past there, there are no planes taking off, nor is there any cars parked to await rides to see views of scenic NH.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:02 PM   #404
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Moultonborough airport is a ghosttown. Not the model for a sucessfull parachuting business! Everytime I drive past there, there are no planes taking off, nor is there any cars parked to await rides to see views of scenic NH.
I understand Tom's choice of location and business plan. I was just offering an area alternative.

I guess I was looking at skydiving being the destination, not a drive-by activity. One of the popular (I think) places is in Pepperell MA, but people drive many miles to jump there.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:09 PM   #405
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VB,

I tried to send you a PM but your MB is full. Tom knows what market he needs to be in. You and I are on the same page though, we both want him to succeed.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:47 PM   #406
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VB,

I tried to send you a PM but your MB is full. Tom knows what market he needs to be in. You and I are on the same page though, we both want him to succeed.
Sorry, cleaned it out! yep, I hate seeing people going through the grinder when they try to do something a little outside the box.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:36 AM   #407
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A crew of at least 10 of us are driving to Maine on Monday to jump at Skydive New England. It's my birthday present to my 18 year old daughter and my entire family will be jumping. We did the same thing for my son's 18th two years ago and there were almost 20 of us. The people at Skydive NE were great but it's too bad we have to drive all the way there instead of staying in our own back yard.

Keep at it Tom. We'll be eager to jump with you when all this is has been resolved.
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Old 08-10-2011, 04:38 PM   #408
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Default Skydive Laconia

With the recent rise of social media online it has become easier to track the popularity of certain activities and sports based on the "hits" that they receive when posted online.

I invite you all to view a clip uploaded 4 months ago by a friend of mine in Melbourne, Australia. 1.7 million views on vimeo and 200,000 views on youtube, in just under 4 months.

http://www.vimeo.com/22428395

This type of interest could be leading people to the Laconia Municipal Airport. They would be patronizing your stores while they were there.

As the economy continues to spiral downward and the end of your tourist season approaches, I ask the business owners of the area to consider this:

Are you happy with your current level of tourism patronage, or would you prefer additional customers and an extended tourist season?

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:27 PM   #409
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A crew of at least 10 of us are driving to Maine on Monday to jump at Skydive New England. It's my birthday present to my 18 year old daughter and my entire family will be jumping. We did the same thing for my son's 18th two years ago and there were almost 20 of us. The people at Skydive NE were great but it's too bad we have to drive all the way there instead of staying in our own back yard.

Keep at it Tom. We'll be eager to jump with you when all this is has been resolved.
And of course you won't be spending money in Maine on the following:

Gas
Food
Tolls
Lodging
Trinkets
The Jump itself

Is there anyone in Laconia or NH listening? NH people leaving the state to BUY stuff out of state because of some really stupid people in a position of power.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:00 PM   #410
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And of course you won't be spending money in Maine on the following:

Gas
Food
Tolls
Lodging
Trinkets
The Jump itself

Is there anyone in Laconia or NH listening? NH people leaving the state to BUY stuff out of state because of some really stupid people in a position of power.
Sadly, they think they do not need to listen. All they need to do is increase the property taxes on owners that are not allowed to vote due to residency requirements. That is the easy way out and it is killing this great area.

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Old 08-11-2011, 06:27 AM   #411
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Are you happy with your current level of tourism patronage, or would you prefer additional customers and an extended tourist season?

Tom[/QUOTE]

Laconia could be a lot tougher place to persuade than is reasonable to comprehend.

Just consider that in the last 40-years, going from 1970 to 2011, the population of Laconia has declined a little going from something like 17,500 to 17,000.

Laconia usually has an unemployment rate that is a point or two higher than the rest of central NH, except for Franklin, which is about the same.

There's been about four drug related Laconia deaths in the past 12-months.

Laconia is probably the national #1 bad example for how urban renewal can be very bad for the local economy. Just go take a visit to the Laconia downtown area, and look around at the narrow little entrance road that blocks away the entry to the downtown area.
...................

Do yourself a favor, and forget about Laconia, and just head 17-air miles north up to Rt 93-Exit 26, and the Plymouth Municipal Airport which has a very friendly, green grass runway that is perfect for skydivers, plus a big horizon of beautiful mountain views.

You sound like a very good guy so maybe you want to stop beating your head against that Laconia wall and just go north a little bit, up to Plymouth, and you will be happy that you did!

www.chutesup.com/aboutus.htm for an up-in-the-air, flying around, look-see at the Plymouth Airport, and click onto "Maxy's Plane Takes Off / Lands at Plymouth Airport" for an up-close look at Plymouth Airport, and just picture your skydive class landing on that grassy runway.......hey.....talk about a soft and scenic landing spot!!

Plymouth is home to the huge Plymouth State University, which is hugely expensive to attend. It and UNH down in southern NH are something like the most expensive state colleges in the whole country, so the students and visiting PSU parents must have some big money and could be a good new customer demographic to a Plymouth Airport skydive business. www.airnav.com/airport/1P1
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:52 AM   #412
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Just a quick update:

The FOIA information is on it's way to us in Florida. We requested all of the documentation used in both the FSDO and ADO erroneous reporting processes for both flawed and invalid air space analysis reports issued by the ADO.

It will take us some time to go through the hundreds of pages of documents, but when we are done, we will upload the documents on an informational website that we are setting up, so that you, the local public affected by this unjust process the most, can view the information.

As for the FAA's current level of activity in righting this erroneous reporting process, suffice to say, we are very pleased with how high the level of involvement has recently arrived at.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:50 AM   #413
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http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...S_01/708239928
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:46 AM   #414
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fatlazyless...I had to laugh at your evaluation of Laconia. It was spot on !!
Living here all of my 55 years, well as of Thur when I join the senior citizen dept, You have explained Laconia perfect. One thing you didn't mention was the different ethic cultures that Laconia has now. With the population of laconia shrinking slightly(which I agree with), and the growth in different cultures growing RAPIDLY, can only make me think that when the kids of Laconia move on to higher eduacation they stay away from Laconia and not move back. Hence=slightly declining.
I moved out of Laconia 24 years ago and would NEVER move back. Its been a downwards spiral in Laconia since Urban-Renewal back in late 60's early 70's. Remember the old Woolworths in downtown?
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:23 AM   #415
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fatlazyless... Remember the old Woolworths in downtown?
Well....Laconia may be a little bit down, but it is definitely is not out, and here's at least five very good reasons why one would want to make a special visit to Laconia's Main St downtown area!

www.laconiaantiquecenter.com in the huge retail space formerly occupied by Woolworth's & Bloom's

www.laconialibrary.org ...subscriber to the $630/year periodical: The Value Line Investment Survey

http://mccycleandsport.com ...a high quality bicycle store

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Just-S...38811859470067 .. Just Stuff consignments

http://www.earthheartfarm.com/earth-heart-yoga.html ...loose weight & build core strength!

Family Dollar-Laconia-Main St.....needs no introduction
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:45 PM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Are you happy with your current level of tourism patronage, or would you prefer additional customers and an extended tourist season?

Tom
Laconia could be a lot tougher place to persuade than is reasonable to comprehend.

Just consider that in the last 40-years, going from 1970 to 2011, the population of Laconia has declined a little going from something like 17,500 to 17,000.

Laconia usually has an unemployment rate that is a point or two higher than the rest of central NH, except for Franklin, which is about the same.

There's been about four drug related Laconia deaths in the past 12-months.

Laconia is probably the national #1 bad example for how urban renewal can be very bad for the local economy. Just go take a visit to the Laconia downtown area, and look around at the narrow little entrance road that blocks away the entry to the downtown area.
...................

Do yourself a favor, and forget about Laconia, and just head 17-air miles north up to Rt 93-Exit 26, and the Plymouth Municipal Airport which has a very friendly, green grass runway that is perfect for skydivers, plus a big horizon of beautiful mountain views.

You sound like a very good guy so maybe you want to stop beating your head against that Laconia wall and just go north a little bit, up to Plymouth, and you will be happy that you did!

www.chutesup.com/aboutus.htm for an up-in-the-air, flying around, look-see at the Plymouth Airport, and click onto "Maxy's Plane Takes Off / Lands at Plymouth Airport" for an up-close look at Plymouth Airport, and just picture your skydive class landing on that grassy runway.......hey.....talk about a soft and scenic landing spot!!

Plymouth is home to the huge Plymouth State University, which is hugely expensive to attend. It and UNH down in southern NH are something like the most expensive state colleges in the whole country, so the students and visiting PSU parents must have some big money and could be a good new customer demographic to a Plymouth Airport skydive business. www.airnav.com/airport/1P1[/QUOTE]


fatlazyless, won'dered an award at this years Forum Fest for $8.00 and some change. A hole in one, as pictured here; http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...hp?photo=17964


FLL knows how to take a thread ( Off Topic In A Heartbeat ), and also taking a black eye on the tennis courts, for not paying attention, and or...


Thanks to TheNoonans, most of us are very much looking forward to SkyDive Laconia!!!!
Love, Terry
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:40 AM   #417
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Quote:
fatlazyless, won'dered an award at this years Forum Fest for $8.00 and some change. A hole in one, as pictured here; http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...hp?photo=17964


FLL knows how to take a thread ( Off Topic In A Heartbeat ), and also taking a black eye on the tennis courts, for not paying attention, and or...


Thanks to TheNoonans, most of us are very much looking forward to SkyDive Laconia!!!!
Love, Terry
..................

Yes, a very good photo of me taken by Don the Webmaster at the latest August, 2011, Center Harbor, Winnipesaukee.com Forum Fest! Not too bad.....still have all my teeth here....at age 59......soon to be 60.......yikes!....


Tom Noonan comes across as a guy who loves both the sport and the business of sky-diving, and hopefully he will be able to get started in the lakes region, either at Laconia, or 17-miles away in Plymouth. Either spot will be a very welcome addition to the area by me, and fair winds and blue skies to him and his NH sky-diver start-up business!!! Rrriiippp-cccooorrrddd!!!.....rock & roll!!!
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:47 PM   #418
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Quote:
Tom Noonan comes across as a guy who loves both the sport and the business of sky-diving
Thank you Less. I've been involved in every aspect of our sport for the last 12 years. Everything from testing prototype parachute designs to even driving aerial all terrain vehicles out of the back of a Casa at 14,000ft AGL. Skydiving is my life seven days a week, fifty two weeks a year.

I'm just trying to share this amazing world from my perspective, above the earth......outside the plane. Not a perspective that many people get to experience.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:35 AM   #419
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Default Executive Councilor Ray Burton visits Laconia airport

Do ya think they talked at all about Skydive Laconia....I highly doubt it!!!



http://www.citizen.com/news/laconia_...a4bcf6878.html
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:34 PM   #420
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Ray Burton is a good listener, that's for sure, he likes to get out and chit-chat with people in his huge district which covers the whole northern half of the state. He drives around in a big old 1970's, bright yellow Oldsmobile convertible, to attend various local community events and he is the longest serving Governor's Councillor of all five, by far and away, holding his position since sometime in the 1970's. Just like the way that old Oldsmobile holds the road, Ray Burton holds onto his political seat!!!

http://www.nh.gov/council/district1/

Will go look for a good photo of Ray driving his "Ray-Mobile"; it's a 1970's land yacht, a huge old gas guzzler. Wonder if it's got an Olds 455 Rocket V8 under the hood? Off the top of my head, it's probably a 1975 Olds Delta 88 Royale Convertible in bright yellow!


Most likely, Ray would be right there to go for a sky-diver jump........seriously........he likes to get out and meet the people in his district! Apparently, looking at his website, both Plymouth and Laconia are in Ray's district.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:43 AM   #421
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As we approach the holiday weekend, I thought I would just post a quick update.

As I mentioned before, the FAA at a federal level in Washington, D.C. have taken an active interest in investigating the flawed process that led to the two erroneous reports issued by the ADO, and are now actively investigating from the top down. It seems accountability within the FAA is just around the corner.

Ironic that I got ignored by the local FSDO for 87 days after sending him three emails, yet at the FAA's highest supervisory levels, I am responded to via email within 24 hours.

I'm happy to report that the FAA in Washington has taken the shortcomings of this process very seriously, and are actively pursuing a just and fair conclusion to this process.

Enjoy the holiday weekend! Mine will be spent "hanging around" helicopters all weekend......

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:55 AM   #422
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just plane (plain) AWESOME!!!
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:12 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by brk-lnt View Post
I've done enough business travel that I've wanted to jump out of a working airplane several times.

Get seated next to (or even near) a sick crying baby on a 5 hour flight, and you'll think about jumping before you're an hour into it.

Brilliant idea. They should allow you to have the option to jump out of an airplane. I'd take that over an upgrade.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:30 PM   #424
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I am very happy to report that I just spent the last hour on a conference call with the Airports Division directors in Washington, DC, and that for the first time in 3 years in this process, I was surrounded by nothing but positive people. They recognize the failures in the current system and are committed to getting a resolution in place by years end.

They want accountability as much as we do.

They believe that an airport sponsor that signs a federal funding grant assurance contract must do everything within it's power to live up to it's obligation to ensure equal access to all aeronautical activities.

AND

When this process is concluded, they (the directors) intend to enforce the contract obligations personally.

So.....what does that mean in terms of the LAA?

Well, for starters, here is a question that will be asked by the FAA directors that I would not want to have to be the one to answer if I was on the LAA:

"The Noonans first contacted you in July of 2008 expressing an interest in bringing a legal and viable aeronautical activity to the Laconia airport. It is now December 2011, so please tell us, with the millions of dollars you have received in federal funding since first being made aware of the Noonan's intent to operate a skydiving operation on the airport, what have you done in the last 3 and 1/2 years to make the airport more accessible? What did you do to mitigate those safety concerns you raised? You were given millions of dollars intended to be used to make the airport accessible to all aeronautical activities, including skydiving, so what have you done?"

That question is coming, trust me. And it is not going to be coming from the local FAA, it's going to have a postmark on the envelope that reads "Washington, D.C.", and it won't be coming from a secretary.

And answering "Sorry, we didn't know we were obligated to do that" just isn't going to cut it, not when the millions of dollars that the airport received in the last ten years in all tallied up.

Regardless of the outcome of this process, in many respects, we have already won. The "Skydive Laconia" issue reached the desk of Randy Babbitt, the Chief Administrator of the FAA. (His boss is Ray LaHood, DOT Cabinet Member. Ray LaHood reports directly to President Obama.) Hence, there is no one higher in the FAA to bring the issue to, it reached the top of the organizational structure. When I say this is coming from the top down now, that's where I base my position.

Additional victories:

- Within the FAA, the LAA have become the case study on the breakdown of the federal funding grant assurance program and the lack of a national standard of FAA enforcement when such violations occur. Every agent of the FAA from Boston Harbor to San Francisco Bay will be briefed on Skydive Laconia and the LAA before this issue is finalized.

- The local FSDO and ADO ignored us every step of the way. As this nationalization process continues to reach it's conclusion, the directors level of the FAA have personally pledged to include Mary and I in the opinion forming process. What we were not given the opportunity to do on a local level, we will be given the opportunity to do on a national level.

- The conversation ended like this, (paraphrasing): "We recognize the short comings of the system and are intent on correcting them. We cannot get back the three years you lost, but we can ensure, when this process ends this year, that neither you, nor any other aeronautical activity proposer will ever have to go through this again on a federally funded airport."

- It's not just skydivers that should be happy about this. If you fly gliders, powered para gliders, sea planes or any aeronautical vehicle for fun or for business, this process will protect you as well down the road from ever having to go through what we have been forced to endure.

And lastly, now that the FOIA info has finally arrived, Mary and I are in the process of writing our memoir on this ordeal. Thanks to the creator of this thread we even have a wonderful outline of the last three years to keep the story straight. It's a 12 month project for sure, but in the end it will be worth it to put a public record out there that is veritable and just.

So much for "Put up enough red tape and delays and maybe they will just pack up and go away.......". Eh?

I said from the start that we were committed to seeing this through and I meant it.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

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Old 09-07-2011, 06:10 PM   #425
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This is a story for 60 Minutes!

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Old 09-07-2011, 11:45 PM   #426
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I agree with R2B! Although, most of us sided with TheNoonans from the Get & Go here. And also about 60 minutes, in No Way could they ever show what TheNoonans have had to endure to further bring the economy of the Lakes Region Higher, and on into a greater future for all!!

Now, wouldn't it be refreshing to actually see a Government Wing, push us all forward, in these critical times??

We do also pay attention to a few of the winds here what and duly are Closed.

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Old 09-08-2011, 07:20 AM   #427
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It is so ironic that the most vocal opponent to Sky Dive Laconia, Bill Hemmel (Flyguy) gave the Noonans the platform to state their case. In Tom's last post he thanks the "creator of the thread". Very Sweet!
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:56 AM   #428
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I for one am very happy that the Noonans want to bring a new and viable business to NH. It sounds like their perseverence is paying off and they may now have a fair shot at actually opening. Keep up the fight alot of people support your plan. Rob

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Old 09-08-2011, 09:25 AM   #429
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"NEVER GIVE UP"! The Noonans should be an inspiration to everyone that is sick and tired of government (at any level) trying to control our lives. Keep up the great work!
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:34 AM   #430
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"NEVER GIVE UP"! The Noonans should be an inspiration to everyone that is sick and tired of government (at any level) trying to control our lives. Keep up the great work!
Too bad the lady who has to suffer from Mayfew's Funeral Home got cutoff. She doesn't have a chance now without putting together a following. In any respects, I'm pretty excited for the Noonans and gladly look forward to giving them my business and hopefully next summer.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:15 AM   #431
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Too bad the lady who has to suffer from Mayfew's Funeral Home got cutoff. She doesn't have a chance now without putting together a following. In any respects, I'm pretty excited for the Noonans and gladly look forward to giving them my business and hopefully next summer.
I believe this business in the beginning would be a fad and everyone would rush to jump out of a plane, specially lots of people following this thread. In time I feel the number of jumps at Laconia would drop off significantly. Maybe I'm wrong just my .02
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:25 AM   #432
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Default I will

Count me in for sure. It's on the Bucket List, and I'd love to scratch it off.
Maybe next summer????
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:45 AM   #433
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I'm waiting to see if Mr. Hemmel will weigh in on this latest development.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:50 AM   #434
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I bet Obama will bring this up as his job's stimulus plan in tonight's speech.
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:30 PM   #435
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While it sounds encouraging to supporters who want the Laconia Airport to be a home to a sky diver business, every issue like this always has two sides to it, and the Laconia Airport Authority hasn't made too many public comments on why they feel the way they do.

Hopefully, this latest new information in the long running saga will encourage the Laconia Airport Authority to be a little bit more open and public with their thinking on the proposed addition of sky-diving to their facility.

It's seems pretty obvious that the L.A.A., which has no regularly scheduled airline passenger flights, is very happy to welcome private passenger jets, but much less happy to welcome a sky diver business operation? How come .... and why is that?
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:24 PM   #436
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I believe this business in the beginning would be a fad and everyone would rush to jump out of a plane, specially lots of people following this thread. In time I feel the number of jumps at Laconia would drop off significantly. Maybe I'm wrong just my .02
You may just be right with your 2, but I'm hoping not. I have gone to visit 3 different fields in the past 1-1/2 years just to see how they operate with the divers and airplanes since this has been posted. Now I was at these 3 fields on weekends and only twice at each field. I found that they were VERY busy both with divers and planes coming and going and found that it was well organized without any problems. Now I'm older and never would try it, but found it very interesting to watch and I will continue to go and just watch. I spoke to several pilots/divers at each of the 3 fields and never once did I hear a bad word said about either group. I wish anyone out there the best when they try a new or existing business, as you all know we sure need some new economy to get this country going again. Like it has been said many times before, just my 2.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:59 PM   #437
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I agree with RLW,I don't think this proposed venture will be a flash in the pan. People in S.NH thought the same about Sky Ventures in Nashua. It has become a thriving business since opening its doors. I think that a business will flourish when owners have both a passion and love for what they are doing along with a sound business plan in place. With that said I think the Noonans will do well given the oportunity. I hope the powers that be in DC have clearer heads and a fair hearing is given.
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:27 AM   #438
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Default Skydive Laconia

Quote:
It's seems pretty obvious that the L.A.A., which has no regularly scheduled airline passenger flights, is very happy to welcome private passenger jets, but much less happy to welcome a sky diver business operation? How come .... and why is that?
Hi Less,

I don't think you'll ever see a member of the LAA post anything on here, but I think they did a pretty good job explaining from their perspective, why they don't want us here when they answered the ADO during their public comment period, they submitted "Summary Doc for FAA 3-30-11". I have a copy of it, it's a big file at 4mb, but I am happy to send you a copy, or I am sure you can get a copy at the airport from the manager.

It's a report compiled by the LAA, the experts on local topographical conditions, as Mr. Hemmel put it I believe........

The problem with their report is that none of them, literally NONE of them, have any background in aeronautical safety as it pertains to parachute operations. There opinions, as obtuse as they are, have no basis of content based on subject matter knowledge, education, practical application or personal first hand experience. But it reads well to the uninformed.

Remember when the LAA created that now famous (within the FAA) "safety committee" comprised of three members of the LAA that are neither pilots or parachutists or that had absolutely ZERO background experience in aeronautical safety studies as they pertain to parachute operations?

Remember when I asked the LAA to give me the aeronautical safety evaluation backgrounds of the Safety Committee and they had their lawyer send me a letter saying they were not legally obligated to provide me that information?

Well I do. I remember it well. And it is all documented and on it's way to the director of compliance in Washington, D.C. As is their obtuse report they submitted, and every other document that they generated that I have a copy of, including those private emails from the airport manager.

Back to that report, if you read it, you will see that they took that opportunity to go after me personally on page 7 of their report when they quoted me out of context from this forum and tried to paint me as someone who's "priority of responsibilities" as they put it, was not in line with theirs as it pertains to safety.

Well guess what? I have shown the FAA in Washington, DC my global resume that supports my statement that I am considered a subject matter expert on parachute operation safety protocols around the world.

When it's there turn to defend themselves, what can they show? That they sit around a table once a month and look for ways to keep aeronautical activities off the airfield?

They had their opportunity to work with us, to find a mutually beneficial resolution that everyone could agree on. Now we are past that point. Now it's full steam ahead with the FAA, now it's time for accountability.

Now it's going national. The national media is standing by and ready to go as soon as this is resolved. It doesn't take much background research to realize that the LAA and this process represent everything that is wrong with this nation. A small group of over privileged people in a position of power trying to distort local government and policies to satisfy their own agenda, that of keeping "outsiders" out and "insiders" in. And in that process actually PREVENTING new jobs and additional ECONOMIC STIMULUS from being brought to area.

As your store hours and your work hours scale back in November, ask yourself if you made enough money to comfortably get through the winter season, or if you would have preferred the opportunity to make more. This will now be the start of the THIRD winter that you could have ended your season with additional jobs and economic stimulus in your cash registers and your wallets.

When your next election roles around, I hope those of you that have helped bring this thread to 40,000 views remember what it is you are voting for, and who it is you are putting in office and thus onto the LAA.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

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Old 09-09-2011, 09:17 AM   #439
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Landing on grass vs. landing on asphalt?

Just picture this; you come in for a landing with one of those directionalized parachute wing things on some good quality grass that is a little bit wet. Ok...it's time to assume the skydiver surfer position and slide on home, back to terra firma, and make a sliding landing, where you come in to land and do a slide-in as opposed to a running step-step step landing.....just like a surfboard on the wet slippery grass.

www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6862732 Wow...just look at that healthy green grass and picture yourself coming in for a surfer style surfboard landing, sliding across the grass, with a chute up overhead!


And, then picture yourself doing the same surfer style landing on black asphalt......ouch....just not the same type of landing!
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:09 AM   #440
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Default From the City of Laconia website

http://www.city.laconia.nh.us/index....rt-authority-2

"Current members are: Mayor Matthew Lahey (Laconia), Philip Daigneault (Belknap County Commissioner), Alice Boucher (Selectman, Gilford), Douglas Bartlett (At-Large/Laconia), Donald Flanders (At-Large/Laconia), Newbold LeRoy III (Vice Chair, At-Large/Laconia) Anthony Stracqualursi (At-Large/Laconia), Chris Tierney (Treasurer, At-Large/Gilford), Russ Dumais (At-Large/Gilford)."

If the "Russ Dumais" listed is the Russ Dumais that owns Airport Deli in Gilford I would be surprised that he wouldn't be in favor of more tourists driving by his store? Maybe a different guy?
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:33 AM   #441
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I gotta say Less, I love your enthusiasm!

Next time I am in the area, I promise you I'll get in touch with you and come up to Plymouth if you want to show me that great grass!

As for the asphalt though, in now going on 12 years and over 4000 skydives, I have yet to ever land on asphalt by accident. But believe it or not, we actually can land on asphalt and sometimes even plan to if we are on a demonstration jump and the most suitable landing area is the event's parking lot.

As I am also a professional demonstration jumper, I can tell the LAA first hand that when we jump into stadiums, the most complex of our demo jumps, that with the full blessing of the FAA, we list the stadium parking lots as alternate landing areas if turbulence over the stadium prevents someone from getting into it. The FAA signs off on it, so maybe the LAA might have a tough time if they went that route in an argument......lol

Here is a couple of photos of me landing in Lincoln Stadium last year for a Philadelphia Eagles fan appreciation night.

Note in the second photo, the orange flag, thats the target on the 50 yard line. We exited the airplane over Interstate 95 about a mile and a half north of the stadium over south Philly and despite these "non directional control, subject to wind drift" parachutes....lol, we managed to make it all the way to the stadium and land on the 50 yard line.

Good thing none of those pesky katabatic winds threw us off course.....lol

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 09-09-2011, 11:38 AM   #442
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As I am also a professional demonstration jumper, I can tell the LAA first hand that when we jump into stadiums, the most complex of our demo jumps, that with the full blessing of the FAA, we list the stadium parking lots as alternate landing areas if turbulence over the stadium prevents someone from getting into it. The FAA signs off on it, so maybe the LAA might have a tough time if they went that route in an argument......lol

Here is a couple of photos of me landing in Lincoln Stadium last year for a Philadelphia Eagles fan appreciation night.

Note in the second photo, the orange flag, thats the target on the 50 yard line. We exited the airplane over Interstate 95 about a mile and a half north of the stadium over south Philly and despite these "non directional control, subject to wind drift" parachutes....lol, we managed to make it all the way to the stadium and land on the 50 yard line.

Good thing none of those pesky katabatic winds threw us off course.....lol
Tom,

I don't know if you know or have heard of Dana Bowman. He is a very inspiring speaker, and I have hired him a number of times as a motivational speaker.

http://www.danabowman.com/

He has landed in some very tough spots for the events we contracted him for, Including a paved parking lot and beside a swimming pool in the courtyard of a hotel in Maryland.

When Mrs SteveA did her jump in Florida, they landed Exactly where the jump master had told us to wait for the "landing photo's".

The control the professionals have is amazing.
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:48 AM   #443
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Tom,

First let me say I admit to not having read this whole thread but I can't help but wonder why not just move on and open a facility elsewhere where it's actually welcome (i think that's possible.) I kind of wonder why it so definitely HAS to be Laconia.
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:59 AM   #444
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Tom,

First let me say I admit to not having read this whole thread but I can't help but wonder why not just move on and open a facility elsewhere where it's actually welcome (i think that's possible.) I kind of wonder why it so definitely HAS to be Laconia.
What would you suggest as the next-best airport in the lakes region?
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:48 PM   #445
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What would you suggest as the next-best airport in the lakes region?
No clue the obvious answer is there isn't another - but you already knew that. The Noonans are from Florida, how about somewhere between here and Florida? I'm not against it, I could honestly care less I won't be jumping but have no issue with it opening either. Just an honest question with this kind of opposition I'd think there would be a back-up plan (location.)
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:54 PM   #446
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Have you seen the whitish WACO Bi-plane flying around the lake? My wife and I watched it fly around the lake with the distinctive radial engine all season long and we finally made the call and took the full lake tour. What a great experience. Everyone should do it. http://www.lakesbiplane.com/location.html

Anyway, my point is that ten's of thousands of people will see the parachutes and a percentage of them will tack action and try it. Go off the beaten path and your market shrinks to a core population base. I think the Laconia location is probably the best for population density for this business.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:49 PM   #447
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snip.... A small group of over privileged people in a position of power trying to distort local government and policies to satisfy their own agenda, that of keeping "outsiders" out and "insiders" in. snip.....
Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
Tom, OMFG you have no idea how much of an understatement this was. It's pervasive around the lake unfortunately.

I have a $120k rebuilt shoulder so my chances of doing a jump are long gone or else I'd be one of your first paying customers

What I love the most about this issue is how they issues are dealt with with data and factual evidence, not perception. So many people out their write opinions and cash check that their mouths can cash....

Rock on Tom!
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:35 PM   #448
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I would imagine that the Noonans did some marketing studies and found LAA to be a good airport to do business; And business is all about making money! Sorry to state the cold hard facts FLL and others, but that is what our economy is based on! To move to Plymouth or elsewhere, would waste their hard earned money put into that marketing study! I wish those that don't understand Marketing 101 would crack a book and learn something! You just don't ignore a study because someone says "NIMBY".
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:49 PM   #449
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Very well said Pineedles
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:19 PM   #450
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Dont'cha just know that the green grass runway over in Plymouth is looking like a lot more soft landing than that black asphalt runway in Laconia!

Landing a skydiver on the unfriendly Laconia asphalt could be used as a metaphor to describe how the Laconia Airport Authority is thinking; unfriendly!


Green grass: Plymouth, NH, runway; think 'nice soft landing.'
www.airnav.com/airport/1p1
www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6869793


Black asphalt: Laconia, NH, runway; think 'bloody abrasions on your hands and knees and nose......ouch! ...... !'
www.laconiaairport.com/


It's so simple, and it will not be long before the skydivers all like to refer to Plymouth as "the green, green grass of home!"


If the walls down in Washington at the F.A.A had ears and could talk, you know what those F.A.A. walls would be saying? They say: "But, over at that little Plymouth Airport, their grass is just looking soooooooo green!"

..............

Both airports, Laconia and Plymouth, do have one thing in common; they both have a Wal-Mart for an abutter neighbor, but I think the Plymouth Wal-Mart would afford a much better view of the skydivers disembarking out their airborne airplane. If you want to see the skydivers all go "Exit-stage right" then the Plymouth Wal-Mart parking lot, way up atop a steep hilltop, would be the best spot! RV-er's and truckers use that parking lot like it was a rereational vehicle campground because of its' super mountain view, and to watch the birds of prey that soar down the Baker River valley on the thermal air currents.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:40 AM   #451
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think 'bloody abrasions on your hands and knees and nose......ouch! ...... !'
That's inflammatory and based on assumption only! Why are some people so dead set to interject their baseless fears on others? Oh yeah, now I remember, same tactic was used in another debate.
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:15 AM   #452
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FLLess,

For cripes sake. You don't land on the runway, you land in the grass next to it. The plane takes off and lands on the runway, think 'Less wear and tear on the equipment, equals: lower costs of operations, equals: lower costs to participate in the activity'.

The issue with Plymouth is the same as Lebanon, ME. When you are up in the air the view of Winni is at a distance. I can only imagine how cool it would be to fall toward it.

Jumped for the first time this summer and a group of 10 that have boats on Winni or live within 30 minutes of it, drove our 3 day bachelor party to Maine.

The people that are saying to move away from the resistence are the same type of folks that fold/jump ship when things start getting nasty. At the end of the day if you stand up, having lost, you will know without a doubt that it was not because of your resolve.

Tom, keep up the grind, because that is all it is at this point.
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:51 AM   #453
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And just to add something.

Our group was the first group in the air on Saturday, we left the ground just before 7:30am and that plane only stopped long enough to fuel up until darkness fell on the field. When we woke up the next morning, things had already begun again. This is a mix of tandem, first solo flights and indi's.

While talking with some of the instructors that we jumped with at the end of the day around the fire. They said it is like this every weekend throughout the summer, except when rain slows them down. My instructor jumped with 15 different people that day and was on every other flight up. 31 flights that day and not a single space available for anyone that wanted to repeat that day or the following.

The most interesting thing about the freefall, was how sharp the temp change was. One minute you are COLD and then instantly you are hit with the temp of a mid-July morning. I would have thought it to be more gradual, but it was literally a slap of change.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:03 PM   #454
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The Noonans are from Florida, how about somewhere between here and Florida
Hi dpg,

We actually own a home in Southern New Hampshire. We currently live in Florida, but we are from New England.

I am sure there are ample locations between Laconia and Daytona Beach, and I would welcome anyone that is interested in pursuing a skydiving operation somewhere within that region to contact me, and I would be happy to lead them in the right direction.

As for us, we are continuing to pursue opening a dropzone on Lake Winnipesaukee, it's a large part of our business model, and based on my continued active interaction with the FAA in Washington these days, I am fairly certain we will be able to open at the Laconia Municipal Airport as we have always intended.

As to "Why Laconia?", I promise you that if you read back through the posts, you will get all the answers I can offer and even the minority opposition's views.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:11 PM   #455
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If the walls down in Washington at the F.A.A had ears and could talk, you know what those F.A.A. walls would be saying? They say: "But, over at that little Plymouth Airport, their grass is just looking soooooooo green!"
Less, I continue to enjoy your enthusiasm..........lol

Hi Pineedles,

I think everyone that has read this thread understands that whether a dropzone has a grass runway like Plymouth or an asphalt runway like Laconia, both operations would land their parachutes on grass.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:58 PM   #456
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Exactly my point Tom. Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:39 AM   #457
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My thanks to the Noonans For doing their best to educate some of our children out here!

The grownups that stand up behind them, ( % Wise ) are very much looking forward to the very day that your drop zone will include the Laconia Airport!

Less the bats, you can understand just how much most of us are willing and able to, and also have already welcomed TheNoonans to this area!!

Team' Noonans will live long into the future here!
With Love,
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:25 AM   #458
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FLLess,

For cripes sake. You don't land on the runway, you land in the grass next to it. The plane takes off and lands on the runway, think....

Well, nobody said this before, and this is a new of piece of info to me. This information seriously changes the dynamics of my thought processes in comparing Laconia to Plymouth! So's, the plane lands on the runway, and the skydivers land on the grass field or somewhere soft, that's close to the runway. Somebody should have made this important point more clear to everybody, at an earlier time in this thread. Thanks very much!
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:32 AM   #459
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Well, nobody said this before, and this is a new of piece of info to me. This information seriously changes the dynamics of my thought processes in comparing Laconia to Plymouth! So's, the plane lands on the runway, and the skydivers land on the grass field or somewhere soft, that's close to the runway.Somebody should have made this important point more clear to everybody, at an earlier time in this thread. Thanks very much!
Your first post was in this thread was #18.Post #12 by Flyguy had a graphic of the proposed landing area shown on the grass.It now does not show on my screen but it certainly was there when you posted a mere 5 1/2 hours later and stated this:

Isn't there a large, vacant, and mostly unused parking lot directly across Route 11 from the Laconia Airport. You know, the p-lot with the water tower and the NH State liquor store. It's just a short jog back across the road from the p-lot to the hanger area like a quarter mile or so. Skydiver landing on an asphalt p-lot....at least you'll be able to find a parking spot, easy.

I saw a great sign at the old Waldo Peppers(Home Cookin?) on Rt11 last Sunday while I was eating breakfast.
It read something like this:We are born with 2 ears and 1 mouth.We should listen twice as much as we speak.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:46 AM   #460
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Talking ...always a soft landing guaranteed!

Up in Plymouth, a mere 17-air miles away from Laconia, the Plymouth Airport is basically one single, green grass, 2380' x 90' runway with a real working, vegetable farm that consists of acres of growing vegetables, just a few yards directly west and lined up with the grass runway.

So, should any beginner skydivers overshoot their landing, which seems pretty likely to happen, they will be landing in a farmer's field of vegetables, or maybe even crashing through the large greenhouse's translucent roof.

www.longviewfarmnh.com and take a peek at the 12-photo slideshow and the aerial photo that includes the Plymouth Airport!

Anyway, that would give the mis-directed skydiver a good opportunity for them to eat their VEGETABLES, as opposed to eating the ASPHALT parking lot over in Gilford, that's near the L.A.A. ...
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:50 AM   #461
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From FLL:
"So, should any beginner skydivers overshoot their landing, which seems pretty likely to happen, they will be landing in a farmer's field of vegetables, or maybe even crashing through the large greenhouse transparent roof."

Hate to tell you this again, but it is highly uinlikely that there would be an overshoot on the landing- as much as I lover your banter, and I do, I have to correct you on this one, it is highly controlled
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:37 PM   #462
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Well, nobody said this before, and this is a new of piece of info to me. This information seriously changes the dynamics of my thought processes in comparing Laconia to Plymouth! So's, the plane lands on the runway, and the skydivers land on the grass field or somewhere soft, that's close to the runway. Somebody should have made this important point more clear to everybody, at an earlier time in this thread. Thanks very much!
C'mon Less, ya gotta stay up on these things.....lol Mr. Hemmel made sure everyone on this thread knew all of the grassy areas we wanted to land in before we even had a chance to share them with you when he posted our landing area proposals here on this thread.

But I am REALLY REALLY glad you brought this back up, because it brings up a good point. Despite providing the LAA with a business plan proposal and posting our intents here on the board, most of those minority opposers, have no idea what it is we intend to do when we open at Laconia.

Our intent is to open a tandem skydiving operation to provide tandem skydiving over the lake. Our instructors and aerial videographers will all be professional skydivers with expert skydiving licenses. That will be 99% of our business at Laconia.

Will we welcome sport jumpers? Of course, but we don't expect it to be a regular thing, at least in the first few years of operation. Another thing to consider is this, is a Monday afternoon as busy as a friday or saturday? Not usually on the airport. So if Monday's are slow there, we may choose Mondays to do "sport mondays" to give sport jumpers a chance to enjoy the view without interfering with a busy saturday.

We mentioned this to the LAA and they know we are not planning on training students on weekends, if at all in the first few years. We made that abundantly clear. The problem is, they want to regulate that too, and guess what, they can't. Why? They're not experts. We are. No one knows what conditions are better for tandem, versus sport or sport versus student, than Mary and I up there. We refuse to budge because they have no legal right or safety background to be restricting our business.

Safety is our first priority. With our global safety experience background, we, not the LAA, are in the best position to make safety based decisions on how we choose to run our business. For them to suggest anything to the contrary is not based on any practical knowledge or experience.

So Less, what does that mean to you and I? I agree with you. How 'bout that? I agree that Plymouth would be a great place to train students and I tell you what, I'm even willing to put a Cessna 182 up there to do just that for you.

I even told the LAA that for all intensive purposes, that tandem skydiving in Laconia was our primary objective and that student jumping was going to be non existent at first and minimally existent at best on slow days, once we got things going.

So, call your pals in Plymouth and give them my contact info, and I'll be up there with a plane in no time for you, I promise.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

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Old 09-14-2011, 05:47 PM   #463
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I wonder if Less is really a deprived "Closet Skydiver"..... NB
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:32 PM   #464
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So Less, what does that mean to you and I? I agree with you. How 'bout that? I agree that Plymouth would be a great place to train students and I tell you what, I'm even willing to put a Cessna 182 up there to do just that for you.

I even told the LAA that for all intensive purposes, that tandem skydiving in Laconia was our primary objective and that student jumping was going to be non existent at first and minimally existent at best on slow days, once we got things going.

So, call your pals in Plymouth and give them my contact info, and I'll be up there with a plane in no time for you, I promise.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
SO does that mean you will use me as a tandom test subject, I know I can get you a couple volunteers
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:52 AM   #465
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Update:

The directors level of the FAA continues to work with me and they continue to proactively contact me every few days with new questions and items. The free flow dissemination of facts and evidence has been nothing short of exceptional.

We are in the home stretch on this one. Trust me. Not only vindication from our perspective, that the Laconia Municipal Airport can sustain a skydiving operation and that the LAA, who have no background in aviation safety assessments, despite their "priority or responsibilities"......., will find out all too soon what can and cannot be accommodated on the government's federally funded airport.

If you have a trike, a glider, a power paraglider, or any other aeronautical vehicle that you want to fly into or out of Laconia, you are about to be given a legal and fair opportunity to present your case to the FAA, not the LAA, regarding what can and cannot be safely accommodated.

After all, the FAA, not the LAA, are the experts when it comes to safety.

Now, one more item to mention. I have posted a few times in this thread before that the actions of the LAA have put the NHDOT Department of Aeronautics in a difficult situation, a situation that could very well result in the removal of the state's "block grant" status regarding federal funding.

Well, I brought that point up to the FAA, that the LAA was shown multiple times to be discriminating against us, and that those discriminations were brought to the NHDOT Dep of Aeronautics and nothing was done. We believed (correctly so it would seem) that the NHDOT Dep of Aero, was responsible for ensuring LAA compliance with the federal funding grant assurances, as after all, they were the ones doling out all that money to the airport. And guess what? I was pretty much spot on in my assumption.

Here is where it gets interesting. The NHDOT Dep. of Aero, has continued to fund an airport that was clearly shown to have violated it's federal funding grant assurances. The airport broke the agreement they entered into and then the NHDOT Dep. of Aero continued to fund them anyways.

In this day and age of budget responsibility, do you think when I brought that irony up to the FAA that it fell on deaf ears? I didn't think it would either.....

So now because I was able to document to the FAA that the LAA discriminated against us and that the NHDOT Dep. of Aero was informed about it and did nothing to bring them back into compliance, the "block grant" status of the NHDOT Dep. of Aerro is being investigated by the FAA.

What does that mean to airports across the state that want funding? Nothing really. If the "block grant" status is removed, airports across the state can still request the same level of funding and receive the same level of funding. The only difference is they will request the funds directly from the FAA, like 43 other states currently do and the only change in policy will be that the FAA will ensure the airport's compliance with their funding grant assurances before doling out the money.

So it's a win/win really. I offer you that explanation in case anyone from the other side tries to distort the facts. My version is fact based.

With that, our next step is of course Congress. We want to make sure the people representing us in Congress are fully briefed on what is going on. The meeting is already scheduled for later this week.

I'll be sure to post the results of the meeting next week to keep you in the loop.

As always, we remain an open book of facts and actions.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:12 PM   #466
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I just sent the below email to both the City Council of Laconia and Gilford Selectmen:

Quote:
Good afternoon to all,

My name is Tom Noonan and my wife and I have spent the last three and half years requesting to operate a commercial skydiving operation at the Laconia Municipal Airport. To date, our proposal still remains unsupported by the Laconia Airport Authority, and I just wanted to check in with you all to give you a perspective of what will be occurring within the FAA in the near future and the impact it will have our proposal process.

As a background, there have been two "FAA" reports issued by regional FAA agent Michel Hovan of Airports Division, Massachusetts. As I have stated publicly, those reports were erroneous, and created without any guidance or oversight from the FAA in Washington, D.C. Since those reports were issued, I have been in contact with virtually every level of the FAA, including it's chief administrator, Randy Babbitt. I was able to provide Mr. Babbitt's department heads, the director level of the FAA, with verifiable facts and evidence to support that:

1) The LAA discriminated against Skydive Laconia on many occasions in direct violation of their federal funding grant assurances.
2) The NHDOT Department of Aeronautics failed to act to bring the LAA back into compliance.
and
3) Both of the reports issued by the local FAA are completely erroneous.

To validate the seriousness of position and facts, I would like you to consider the fact that at that high a level of the FAA, only factual, verifiable information can pass judgement from the FAA directors, and the fact that I am still in direct communication with them should suggest to you all the validity of the information that I have provided them.

For anyone involved in this process, it is easy to see that we were never given a fair chance by the LAA, and that it is the LAA that forced our position to bring this unjust process a national stage with both the FAA and the media.

I offer the following information for your consideration as it is my sincere belief that justice and accountability within the FAA is just around the corner:

The FAA will very shortly be finalizing a process that will clearly label the Laconia Municipal Airport as viable for a commercial skydiving operation, and equally as important, the FAA will also be enforcing the compliance of it directly and swiftly. If the LAA chooses to remain non-compliant when this process is through, they will forfeit any future federal funding and be required to refund the last ten years of funding they received, that I am finally sure of now.

The FAA has taken the discriminatory practices of the LAA and other airport sponsors across the country that have ignored airport access assurances, very seriously. In this day and age of fiscal accountability, the FAA is about to lead a charge across the nation and put an end to airport sponsors abuse of their funding privileges.

It is also important to understand that the actions of the LAA have now jeopardized the "block grant state" status of the NHDOT. The NHDOT requested to be actively involved in the dissemination of federal funding and the FAA has allowed a handful of states to pursue this role in a test program. I have been able to clearly demonstrate to the FAA in Washington, D.C., that not only did the LAA discriminate against us multiple times during this process, but that when we then informed the NHDOT about the discriminations, they ignored the facts and allowed to airport to continue to receive federal funding. It is with those facts and statements as the foundation for my request, that I asked the FAA to revoke the "block grant' status of the NHDOT and that request is currently under consideration in Washington, D.C.

It is our expectation that by the end of the year, this process will have finally reached it's just conclusion and the FAA will return a verdict that states that Skydive Laconia may be granted access to land our parachutes on the property of the airport, as we contended could be done in July of 2008. We also expect the LAA and the NHDOT to honor that verdict and work with us, not against us, in living up to the federal funding grant assurances that they agreed to.

I am writing to both the City Council of Laconia and the Gilford Selectmen today to renew an offer to meet with you all to help you better understand what impact our business will have on the area, both operationally and financially. My last request to meet with you all and to explain our proposal fell on deaf ears. I can only hope that your willingness to view our proposal with an open mind has increased since my last email and that you consider allowing my wife and I to educate you all on the process that we have been forced to endure, the just outcome that is soon to arrive, and what that means to both communities in terms of new jobs and economic stimulus into the area.

This is your chance to show the community your renewed commitment to economic growth and a just conclusion to the unjust process created by the LAA three and a half years ago.

If you would like to arrange a meeting, please let me know.

Best regards,

Tom Noonan
Skydive Laconia
Now they ignored my request last time, as Mr. Hemmel said because "why should they waste their time......". Well, change is coming, and I have thus informed both groups again, and have again offered to present to them both the facts of the proposal and explain how we can benefit the communities.

So, what do you think? Do you think the City Council and Selectmen should meet with us?

Let them know your thoughts. Email them directly and tell them yes or no if you want them to meet with us.

Now if you email them and tell them "No! Don't listen to reason and facts!", please feel free to post here as to why you don't believe that the leaders of both communities shouldn't take every opportunity to educate themselves on a potential new business that will bring new jobs, extend the tourist season, and more money into the economy. I know one person in that vocal minority thinks it's "disrespectful" of us to pursue justice and fair treatment....but that aside, is there any reason at all for a civic leader not to listen and educate themselves? If anyone can provide a sound valid argument devoid of emotional response, I will be impressed. After all listening costs nothing.

Gilford: selectmen@gilfordnh.org

Laconia: citycouncil@city.Laconia.NH.US

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:14 PM   #467
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It seems you don't care who you inconvenience. I can't help but think that there are more important things that these people should be dealing with.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:50 PM   #468
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I for one feel my tax dollars when spent should be for the benefit of all. That said if grant money is given and the rules of the grant are not followed then all monies should be returned to the general fund.To be in the publics trust and not follow the letter of the law is criminal plain and simple.To not give someone equal oportunity to lawfully utilize an entity which gets funds from taxpayers without a fair hearing which is in part why you get those funds is again illegal.How many other people attempting to start a business have been thwarted due to this practice? If you don't want to allow anyone to be able use the facility then return the funding and operate without them,charge those who do use it enough to continue to do so. JMHO
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:53 PM   #469
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It seems you don't care who you inconvenience.
Often times doing the right thing is inconvenient, but that doesn't mean that the right thing shouldn't be done.


Quote:
I can't help but think that there are more important things that these people should be dealing with.
I don't think that what he's doing is based on your set of priorities.
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:05 PM   #470
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At what cost should a private entity get it's way?
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:13 PM   #471
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In any legal ways
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:28 PM   #472
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At what cost should a private entity get it's way?
The government exists to serve its citizens. He has every right to petition for redress of grievances. I really don't see cost as being a significant factor here.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:08 PM   #473
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The government exists to serve the majority, not the minority.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:25 PM   #474
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The government exists to serve the majority, mot the minority.
OUR government is here to serve all the People according to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights! Too bad some people in the government have forgotten this.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:29 PM   #475
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The government exists to serve the majority, mot the minority.
No. Our government exists to serve ALL citizens. In fact, one of the most important functions of government is to protect the rights of those in the minority.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:37 PM   #476
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You would probably feel differently if it was you and your quality of life that was being forced upon.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:01 PM   #477
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No I wouldn't,for the people and by the people. Equal for all is the key. Not a few chosing for themselves above what is right and what is law.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:30 PM   #478
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Debates like this is exactly the way our government was formed. Without being overly dramatic, it is clear that the Noonans have every right to petition the government, Local, State or Federal. They also have the right to attempt to change the mind of elected officials that turn down ANY request they make.

They don't sacrifice that right just because the officials may have other other issues they would rather address.

1st Amendment to the Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Agree or Disagree... they clearly have the RIGHT to do what they are doing. (Thank you James Madison)
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:34 PM   #479
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And too bad for everybody they effect.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:35 PM   #480
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You would probably feel differently if it was you and your quality of life that was being forced upon.
Do you mean that I might not like it if I had a nice thing going for myself and my buddies at a public facilty that receives federal funding, and an outsider wanted to come in and do something that might mean that we would have to change some things? Sometimes it's hard, but I try not to be judgmental and narrow-minded.

How is "your quality of life being forced upon"?
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:47 PM   #481
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And too bad for everybody they effect.
Just curious, who are the "everybody" that are being effected? Really, I'm not being trying to be provocative, just don't understand your point.
I would defend the "everybodies" just as hard as I defend the Noonans. Just can't figure out who the everybody's are.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:56 AM   #482
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JP, I can understand the safety issues, leaving out the validity of the safety review process for now, safety is clearly a criterea for something like skydiving.

But how can someone opening a skydiving business affect your quality of life? Will your business or family be injured by this business? How?
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:02 AM   #483
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You would probably feel differently if it was you and your quality of life that was being forced upon.
So the addition of a skydiving operation at the Laconia Airport is going to ruin your quality of life and that of the "majority" you include yourself with? You want to explain that?
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:18 AM   #484
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And too bad for everybody they effect.
Maybe the people they "effect" shouldn't have lobbied for federal funding. Why don't those people give the money back and fund it themselves? What makes you or any of them think they have a right to deny the Noonans?

JP, give me a lawful, legitimate reason why they SHOULDN'T be allowed into LAA. Clearly, safety is not a legitimate reason as stated above.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:24 AM   #485
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JP's accusation:
Quote:
It seems you don't care who you inconvenience. I can't help but think that there are more important things that these people should be dealing with.
Here is an excerpt from my initial email to Mr. Babbitt:

Quote:
I understand that you are incredibly busy with much greater issues, and I apologize for burdening you with our issue
But the reality is, for him and everyone up there, it is not I that has inconvenienced them, it is the LAA and the other small town airport sponsors across the country that have ignored their federal funding grant assurances that have considerably inconvenienced them. The people at the top of the FAA ladder do not consider it an inconvenience at all to be provided factual data and evidence highlighting a massive flaw in the federal funding process. My proof? I have been thanked by them numerous times for bringing this problem to a national audience. It seems that in doling out hundreds of millions of dollars to airports across the country, the FAA has an expectation that the hands that are happy to reach out and snatch up all that money will live up to the terms of the agreement that comes with the funding.

Quote:
At what cost should a private entity get it's way?
This process has nothing to do with me or Skydive Laconia at this point now. This is not about a private entity getting it's way. This is about the LAA providing a fair opportunity for everyone that wants to enjoy equal access to the airport. If you think this is about Skydive Laconia at this point, you really have no concept or understanding about what is going on here.

Quote:
The government exists to serve the majority, not the minority.
Wow. Somebody must have slept through civics class........

But even if you were right about this one..........unless you are selectively reading only what you want to read, the "majority" of the community wants us here. You are the minority JP, not me.

Quote:
You would probably feel differently if it was you and your quality of life that was being forced upon.
This is my favorite statement. It is a shining example of the very self entitled nature of the handful of people up there that are so afraid we will destroy their quality of life.

I hate to break it to you JP, but the quality of life you are so afraid of losing was paid for by my federal tax dollars, and the federal tax dollars of all the business owners and workers up there. The only reason the airport is given funding in the first place is to ensure the community as a whole, not just you, benefit from the facility. The LAA made a deal with the FAA when they reached out and grabbed all that tax dollar funding. All we are doing is ensuring that they live up to the deal they made.

Tell you what? You don't want us there to effect your quality of life? Fine. Go to the LAA, get them to get a loan for about $10,000,000, from a bank and then have them write a check to the FAA for that amount. Then without any future federal funding. You can continue to enjoy your quality of life up there without us. It really is that easy. No funding = no skydiving.

I wonder how "quality" the airport will be though three years later when your asked to personally help pay to repave the runway.

Quote:
And too bad for everybody they effect.
And lastly, as asked by others, please specify as to what the effects will be that we will have on you and your personal quality of life?

You won't have to wait for us to fly your airplane. You can still fly it whenever you want and where ever you want. We're not going to be using your hangar, assuming you have one.

So, what exactly is it that you believe we will effect?

I'm sorry if you feel that you were not trained well enough to fly your plane with parachutes in the air, but I will be happy to bring a competent CFI to you free of charge for a free flight training on your first flight up after we get there if it makes you feel better.

And of course last but not least, this is America, and if nothing I have said makes you feel any better JP, you are welcome to fly out of any of the other local airports in the lakes region.

If I may ask of you, since you seem to be the sole dissenting voice left on this thread, to give us all a little background on your flight experience to help us better understand your perceived inconvenience to your quality of life.

1) Do you own a plane?
2) Do you hangar it at LCI?
3) How many flights a week do you make with it?
4) How many total flight hours do you have?

I don't expect you to answer those questions though, although it would be nice. I expect rather, like Mr. Hemmel, you will just keep shouting at the sky about us without bringing any facts to the table.

And as for Congress. It is my obligation to inform them of the facts. The airport manager contacted congress when she tried to scare them into believing that parachutes landing in the object free area was such a grave safety concern, despite it already being allowed to be done across the nation by the FAA. Was she "inconveniencing" her Congressperson? Or was it okay for her to do it first because she is on your side?

So, I too contacted our Congressperson to give them the facts. But more so, contacted them before this process concluded to ensure that they were briefed about the NHDOT Dept of Aero, and the potential loss of "block grant" status as a result of the LAA. I didn't want our Congressperson to pick up a local paper 3-4 months from now and read the headline "FAA drops New Hampshire from Block Grant program", without giving them the background as to why it was likely to occur and who was to blame for it.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:39 AM   #486
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You would probably feel differently if it was you and your quality of life that was being forced upon.
Its scary but it appears that this is the kind of thinking and reasoning that the Noonans have been dealing with. And they run an airport? Wow! I'm trying to get my mind around how somebody's quality of life is being forced upon. Maybe there is a religion out there that believes people dropping out of the sky is evil. Ya, thats it. Those skydivers must be the devil!
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:22 AM   #487
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Default Angels vs. Demons

I think the angels are from above and the devil is in the ground. Maybe those demons underground are afraid of having to hear the constant thudding of those angels as they land.
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:22 AM   #488
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if you want to go that route, how bout the sea plane that started up last year and takes off and lands with a bunch of boats and jetskis zipping around.

Fear is not a reason for denying things, facts are, in like my struggles with the night club across the street, the facts which have been back up (I cannot get in to it further) have been backed up
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:33 AM   #489
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I have read every word in this very long thread. I know nothing about skydiving and this specific issue has little effect on my life but I enjoy seeing different points of view and how they are discussed.

However, it amazes me that anyone could object to the Noonans' presenting their case in an upfront and transparent manner. IMO this is exactly how our government should function. My perception is that it frequently functions with back room decisions based on money and influence.

Is it sometimes true that the " squeaky wheel gets the grease?" Of course, but is not petitioning for a redress of wrongs one of the fundamental rights we share?

I can only applaud the Noonans' approach.
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:37 AM   #490
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However, it amazes me that anyone could object to the Noonans' presenting their case in an upfront and transparent manner.
For all the free thinkers out there like you that want facts and transparent education, there is still a small handful of people up there that are absolutely opposed to our dissemination of factual information. Unfortunately many of them hold elected positions, so they control the process.

These are the people that denied our repeated offers to do a demonstration skydive into the airport to show the LAA and the local town officials how effectively we could integrate into the daily ops of the airport.

These are the same people that refused to accept our offer to meet with the City Council of Laconia and Gilford Selectmen earlier this year.

Why, you ask?

They know that in both scenarios we will prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that we can integrate efficiently into the airport.

And TRUST ME, they do not want YOU the public to know that. They have made every effort to keep you the community, the primary stakeholders in this process, in the dark to as great an extent as possible.

And why is that? They believe that the less you know, and the less facts that are made public, the easier it will be for them to create an uneducated hysteria.

Mr proof?

To date, no one, literally no one on their side has been able to produce any insurance policy to suggest jet insurers won't allow jets on the airport if we are operating. Yet, Selectman Hayes wants you to believe that. He put it in the paper to scare you.

Remember our first meeting with the LAA in 2008 where the local pilots all showed up riled up? A month prior we submitted a VOLUME of data to the airport manager, but when she sent out her email only a week prior to the meeting telling the locals that outsiders were coming up with an entourage to request to open a skydiving operation, she OMITTED that she had an enormous amount of factual information for them to study beforehand.

And that's the airport's definition of "transparent".

If those in power give us a venue to provide indisputable facts to you, the community that the airport is bound to serve, they would no longer be able to play on your fears and lack of knowledge, and that is their last option at this point. They have no other reason to prevent us from spreading the truth and educating them.

The good news though, is that thanks to Mr. Hemmel, we have this wonderful venue of free speech here on www.winnipesaukee.com and we have forwarded the link to this forum around the country and to pretty much every agent of the FAA we have worked with.

Our cause, and more importantly the unfair treatment we have received, has been forever recorded here on the forum for the world to see. So while your local civic leaders may continue to ignore our request to educate, in their hopes of keeping you in the dark, thanks to Mr. Hemmel, we have a spotlight set on the truth and facts in this process so the community can receive the facts and evidence you are rightly deserving of.

As we now approach 42,000 views, it is safe to say, your getting the facts. And that is the best thing we could ever have hoped for.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:21 AM   #491
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OMG... the horror of Skydivers!!! I read the horror storys all the time in the paper.... jet collides with skydiver midair! Yup read that just last week! NOT!

It truly amazes me how some people react to change... New businesses should be encouraged not discouraged. Welcome the Noonans... help them and encourage them! Let the free market decide if they succeed. Not for nothing but skydiving has been around a looong time, and the safety record is pretty darn good.

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Old 09-20-2011, 12:21 PM   #492
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People in power (politicians and appointed officials) are surrounded by like individuals. They enjoy a smug environment or culture that has morphed away from serving. They use headline statements and repeat that one statement over and over until a casual listener starts to believe it is fact.

This thread is excellent as it is filled with opinion and banter. People research facts to support positions and then re-post. The politicians cannot go any deeper than their headline statements. If they cannot convince Joe Public they are right they hide and hope the situation just goes away. To get satisfaction one must go to the Judicial system if you have funds to proceed.

This "fight" has been a great lesson on the power of communication and the internet. Thanks for the civic lessons, Skydive process, and Winnipesaukee Forum for allowing this regional issue to live on publicly. Even those that posted opposing the business have the right and have offered value to the opinion tree.

I am thankful for Tom and Mary Noonan, the video's (Nepal - WOW) they shared, and look forward to the day we can see open parachutes from the lake.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:31 PM   #493
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Default I just don't understand the logic to the LAA's position

I know I have asked this before but I really need to understand the reason the LAA crowd doesn't want skydiving. Forget about any benefit (or harm) to the community, what is it that they can't take personally with this business. I believe everything comes down to money. Do they believe this will effect their revenues (people have limited funds so the ones that skydive would have flown with them instead) Do they believe it will increase their expenses (higher insurance premiums, hanger and storage rental fees increase). Are they worried they will hit a skydiver and be sued or killed.

For the life of me I can't figure out what their stance is. All I can see is this will increase revenues to all businesses at Laconia airport. More (new) people will come and some of those will want to take a photo or foliage flight. More gas will be sold. More hangar and rental space will be used. Tom has already proven that insurance premiums will not change.

Please help me understand the driving force behind their stubbornness, I just don't get it, there is no logic to it.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:33 PM   #494
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I was going over the original posts of this thread and have a question for TRFOUR, from a post a long, long time ago:

Quote:
Tell me something Bill, how many folks on the board at the time of your licensing, were there that were of the opinion that a pilot and photographer could not possibly fly over Lake Winnipesaukee at a safe altitude of less than 125000 feet?
Terry, was that a Laconia Airport Authority board meeting you reference, or a town board? And did they attempt to influence the altitude that Mr. Hemmel flew as a condition of granting his permission to use the airport?

The reason I ask is this: If it was the LAA, their "jurisdiction" ends the moment the wheels leave the ground. If the LAA attempted to prevent Mr. Hemmel from flying his aircraft below 12,500ft while snapping photos, guess what? They discriminated against him and his business.

The LAA cannot influence an aeronautical business operation as to what occurs above the airport in the sky regarding safety. It's really that simple. Once your off the ground you belong to the FAA and the FARs, not the LAA and the airport manager.

Why is that? Again, because no one on the LAA have any background in aviation safety analysis.

I'll give you another example: Let's say a direct neighbor of the airport got fed up with all of the shenanigans of the LAA and this process and called me and said "Tom, land here on my property next door". The very following day, we could file a NOTAM, and legally fly our skydiving aircraft directly over the top of the airport and exit the plane. We could open our parachutes and fly over the airport property (where it is the safest place to fly) and then land next door at the neighbors property. The LAA would be powerless to do anything. They don't own the sky and they certainly don't own the property beyond their property lines.

My point is this: Not that we want to do that at all, because we don't, but that the LAA's reign ends at their property line and as soon as the aircraft is off the ground.

I really wish I was around for that debate Terry. When was it? I would assume it would have been placed in the meeting minutes. I would love to forward that info to the FAA in Washington, D.C.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:30 PM   #495
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Quote:
I know I have asked this before but I really need to understand the reason the LAA crowd doesn't want skydiving
Hi Steveo,

Here are the reasons and the responses:

Reason: The presence of parachutes will make the jets stop flying in. That means we lose the $5,000 (gross) fuel sale when a jet stops flying in here.

Response: There is no insurance preventing jets from flying into Laconia. EVERY SINGLE jet pilot, and I am not selective in my interviews, have stated unanimously that they would still fly into Laconia. Even the pilots flying the NASCAR drivers, I contacted them directly as well...... They will still get those fuel sales. Plus our season long fuel sales.

Reason: And this is a direct quote: "We hear the radio over at Skydive New England in Maine, they are 'up-down-up-down' all weekend long." (Paraphrasing now) "You will take over the airport's daily ops if you fly here.

Response: That's life. We expect on a Saturday to make 10-20 flights. If the airport's total average daily ops on a Saturday is 100, we would represent no more than a 10% or 20% increase in daily ops. They think we're gonna fly Twin Otters all day long and drop 23 skydivers over the airport twice a hour all day long, which is entirely not the case.

Reason: Aircraft and skydivers can collide mid air.

Response: Try actually doing some research. Aircraft and aircraft collide every ten days on average across the US. Aircraft and skydivers collide about once every ten years on average.

Reason: We're too busy of an airport for skydiving.

Response: Your really not. You have no idea what average daily ops mean in relationship to skydiving.

Reason: The airport is too small:

Response: Your really not. Do some research. You want to see a SMALL airport that can sustain skydiving, check out Sugarloaf Key airport in the Florida Keys. That is SMALL.

Reason: This is our airport

Response: This is everyone's airport

Reason: They want to land in the object free area!

Response: We really don't. It's listed as an alternate. But as far as the FAA is concerned, if parachutists aren't allowed in the object free area when needed, then neither are departing or landing aircraft that need to use it. Ironic, huh? lol

Hope that helps,

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:57 PM   #496
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Post Hi Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoonans View Post
I was going over the original posts of this thread and have a question for TRFOUR, from a post a long, long time ago:



Terry, was that a Laconia Airport Authority board meeting you reference, or a town board? And did they attempt to influence the altitude that Mr. Hemmel flew as a condition of granting his permission to use the airport?

The reason I ask is this: If it was the LAA, their "jurisdiction" ends the moment the wheels leave the ground. If the LAA attempted to prevent Mr. Hemmel from flying his aircraft below 12,500ft while snapping photos, guess what? They discriminated against him and his business.

The LAA cannot influence an aeronautical business operation as to what occurs above the airport in the sky regarding safety. It's really that simple. Once your off the ground you belong to the FAA and the FARs, not the LAA and the airport manager.

Why is that? Again, because no one on the LAA have any background in aviation safety analysis.

I'll give you another example: Let's say a direct neighbor of the airport got fed up with all of the shenanigans of the LAA and this process and called me and said "Tom, land here on my property next door". The very following day, we could file a NOTAM, and legally fly our skydiving aircraft directly over the top of the airport and exit the plane. We could open our parachutes and fly over the airport property (where it is the safest place to fly) and then land next door at the neighbors property. The LAA would be powerless to do anything. They don't own the sky and they certainly don't own the property beyond their property lines.

My point is this: Not that we want to do that at all, because we don't, but that the LAA's reign ends at their property line and as soon as the aircraft is off the ground.

I really wish I was around for that debate Terry. When was it? I would assume it would have been placed in the meeting minutes. I would love to forward that info to the FAA in Washington, D.C.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

WOW, we've all had a few birthdays since I asked Bill about that there. I never got an answer back from him on that one either, posted by me, to him on 01/16/2009, Post # 21, this thread...

Now, as I remember to the best of my recollection, it didn't take very long to find out just who was joshing, and who had all of the facts in hand at the very beginning of this thread!

So, maybe I was at fault that I didn't put a within that very question to Bill. Truth be known, I have absolutely no idea who and or what processes went into giving him his permissions to operate his business.
However, It was made very clear from the get-go here that Bill was totally against, and in opposition to seeing the Noonan's succeed in theirs.

In trying to find an ( entry level ), in Bill's way of thinking, I decided to pop a question his way to maybe facilitate a further understanding of his seemingly hypothetical, conjecture, to this point.

When it all comes wanting to educate, and soooo much more, this thread needs to be at the top of the heap, ( so to speak )!!!!
Terry
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:44 AM   #497
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I wish Bill would chime in here again. But I assume since the Noonan's brought this to the FAA and they are taking this situation very seriously, I'm sure the "big guys" in town and at the airport have issued a "gag order".
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:48 AM   #498
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Default Thank you for your responce Tom but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoonans View Post
Hi Steveo,

Here are the reasons and the responses:
...the majority of your answers were safety issues which I believe are only smoke screen to the real reasons. It always comes down to bucks!!! Somehow the LAA crowd thinks they will lose money if you come. But, the airport itself should make more money due to your added business needs - gas , storage/hangar fees, also don't you pay a fee every time you takeoff/land? The other businesses (pilots) lose nothing in revenues and actually have a chance to make more - I just don't get it!!!
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Old 09-21-2011, 03:23 PM   #499
TheNoonans
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Default Skydive Laconia

Quote:
It always comes down to bucks!!! Somehow the LAA crowd thinks they will lose money if you come.
Your right Steveo,

They have a perception that if we show up to operate "they" will lose fuel sales because "they" believe that the jets will stop coming to LCI if parachutes are operating.

As with everything else, "they" are wrong. The jets will still fly in to Laconia. "They" will still get their fuel sales from jets.

What is comical though, as I start to read through the FOIA comments, the self entitlement of a few of the letters is absolutely mind boggling. For instance, a local lawyer who hangars a couple of planes at the airport made it clear that if LCI had a parachute operation, he would move his planes out of the hangars and leave the airport. He wrote that to the FAA.......

I mean seriously?

Okay, so let's examine this scenario: An affluent lawyer threatens that he will move his planes (plural) off the airport if the FAA allows us to operate.

And that is the FAA's responsibility how?

The truth is, if you look at the financials, if we showed up and he left, we would buy more fuel from the FBOs in a week that he would buy all year. His rent on a t-hangar or two is lost, versus us leasing out or buying a 10,000sq ft hangar.

And he expects the FAA should be concerned about him, a local lawyer picking up his toys and leaving the sandbox because he doesn't want to play by someone elses rules.

Like I said, this is the well to do, self entitled staking a claim that this is their airport, that it does not belong to the community.

Here's another:

One of the FBOs got a student pilot to write a letter to the FAA concerned that as a student, she shouldn't have to worry about parachutes in the air.

Again, Seriously?

Your training someone to be a pilot, right? And you create an unfounded air of fear and uncertainty in a student over smoke and mirrors. If I was that woman, I would be furious with my flight school for getting me involved in their turf war. It is plain as day to anyone educated in this NIMBY issue, that she was used as a pawn by the flight school. They played on the fact that she is student and doesn't know any better.

Did the flight school, as they asked her to write her letter, tell her that student pilots are trained all over the country by 100s of flight schools with parachute operations on the same airport and that none of them, literally none of them, have ever had a student pilot/skydiver issue.

Did they tell her that she will actually be a BETTER PILOT if she learns to fly on an airport that has a parachute operation? Probably not, better to scare her........

For any educator out there, and it doesn't matter the field, for an instructor to put any kind of negative fear into student's foundation of training is sure to result in inferior training results. It's undeniable and it's been published internationally by some of the most experienced educators on the planet.

So those are just two examples of the results of Mr. Hemmel's fear mongering campaign.

I could go on here, but I won't. I think you get the point.

To be honest, as I read through the letters, most everyone's concerns are based on either one of two things:

1) Self Entitlement
or
2) Lack of knowledge.

I can't help with the Self Entitled crowd, that's an incurable affliction it would seem.

But I can help with the knowledge vacuum.

There is going to come a day in the near future when the few of you out there that feel wronged by our insistence on invading "your turf" as a just cause, are going to be shocked to see our parachutes descending over the airport.

When that day arrives you can do one of two things:

1) Allow logic and reason to escape your faculties and go as bananas as you like privately and publicly.

or

2) Walk on into our hangar and introduce yourself. You will be met by two smiling happy business proprietors, my wife Mary and I.

We will welcome you in, give you all of the education materials you need to set your mind at ease and if that isn't enough, we will even coordinate getting CFIs with experience on airports with parachute operations to conduct monthly seminars for you.

Point is, we will work with anyone that wants to learn.

There really isn't any more I can offer at this point, but I think my offer is fair and just.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:42 PM   #500
TheNoonans
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Default Skydive Laconia

I want to end the day on a positive note.

Check out this link:

This is my friend from Australia. His first video, Experience Human Flight, I posted a link to earlier in this thread. It received 2 million hits across Vimeo and Youtube in 4 months.

This video:

http://www.vimeo.com/29017795

Received ONE MILLION views in a week.

And skydiving, parachutes, BASE jumping and our little "dirt road" industry is just a flash in the pan........lol

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

Enjoy.
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