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Old 08-13-2012, 08:50 AM   #1
AC2717
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Default Polaris Jet Ski Engine Running Issue

My Neighbor has a 1997 Polaris 780 SLT jetski.
They were riding it yesterday morning when all of a sudden it stalled out, it restarted back up but would not go past a certain speed even at full throttle.
and would not stay on idle. Have not had problems like this before on the machine ever.

I took a look at it and it seems like the fuel might be bad. They get their gas from a street gas station and did not stablize it. it gas was in the gas can about a week, but who knows how long at the gas station and then with all the humidity over the past week and a half....By the way they just filled it in the same morning before heading out it was about a quarter full.

So anyways, we changed the plugs, dropped some marine stabilizer in the tank, and a bottle of dry gas. Still wont stay idle, but got litteraly a scooch more power out of the machine. Also Oil is good as well.

My next step is to drain the whole tank and put new gas in there, change the plugs again and hopefully that will solve the problem??? ON a side note when I pulled the plugs and sniffed them they barely had a scent of fuel to them and when we dry fired the engine to check fuel pump there was fuel but barely had the gas smell to it

Only other thing I was thinking about is I did not know and could not find out if the machine had one of those speed switches on it that limited the speed or is it too old. Does anyone know??

Anyone have knowledge on this machine or type of problem?
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:09 AM   #2
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looks like you have a handle on the basic's but don't forget the fuel filter
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:18 AM   #3
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I am going to watch this thread. My Polaris is doing the same thing. Pretty much ruled out the fuel problem. I am thinking it may be the "brain/control box". Mine seems like a coil that won't go to the secondary spark map..
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:58 AM   #4
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Don't ever add dry gas to E10 fuel. Dry gas is alcohol and it's already got 10% alcohol in it.

The sudden aspect of the problem makes me think either a fuel delivery issue or electrical issue.

Check the fuel filter, it has a water separating filter and it might be full of water or crud. It has a replaceable inner element.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:11 AM   #5
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Default Did you put more oil in it?

I found out the hard way when I overfilled my oil(4-stroke) and had the same issue.The oil fouled the plugs.duh.You did say you checked the plugs so probably not the problem.Most newer pwc's have 2-3 speed level settings but this does not sound like that.I would not suspect bad gas so soon either.I would look at the fuel filter AND water separator.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:23 AM   #6
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The Polaris machines do not have a switch or setting to limit speed like the newer machines. Polaris stopped producing watercraft in 2005 I believe.

It looks like the 780 has an actual water separater bowl which should be checked, as well as a small white inline filter.

The following listing is from a 96, I bet the 97 has a similar setup. I posted it to give you an idea of what to look for under the seat.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-1996-POLA..._Parts&vxp=mtr

Beyond that, look to the main jets in the carbs. Its cheape/easier than getting into diagnosing electrical problems.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKSUKR View Post
I found out the hard way when I overfilled my oil(4-stroke) and had the same issue.The oil fouled the plugs.duh.You did say you checked the plugs so probably not the problem.Most newer pwc's have 2-3 speed level settings but this does not sound like that.I would not suspect bad gas so soon either.I would look at the fuel filter AND water separator.
The SLT780 is a 2 stroke with an oil reservoir for injection, so this would not be applicable. If it was an MSX150 you'd be spot on. They had a problem with the dipsticks in this model, if you fill to where the dipstick indicated you'd actually be over-filling the machine. Can you tell I have owned too many Polaris machines?
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:44 AM   #8
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The SLT780 is a 2 stroke with an oil reservoir for injection, so this would not be applicable. If it was an MSX150 you'd be spot on. They had a problem with the dipsticks in this model, if you fill to where the dipstick indicated you'd actually be over-filling the machine. Can you tell I have owned too many Polaris machines?
codeman, are you saying that the oil having too much in it could bogg it down due to airflow??

Also
I was not really thinking electrical because it is not puffing smoke like the fuel is not burning correctly, but I will check the water bowl and the fuel filter, anything else?
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:31 AM   #9
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codeman, are you saying that the oil having too much in it could bogg it down due to airflow??

Also
I was not really thinking electrical because it is not puffing smoke like the fuel is not burning correctly, but I will check the water bowl and the fuel filter, anything else?
No, oil is not the issue. Siksukr mentioned a problem he had on a 4 stroke which I have seen happen as well. The 780 your neighbor has is a 2 stroke, you can't overfill it. He was talking about overfilling the crank case. It had nothing to do with airflow.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:34 AM   #10
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Also
I was not really thinking electrical because it is not puffing smoke like the fuel is not burning correctly, but I will check the water bowl and the fuel filter, anything else?

A timing light would tell you if the timing is advancing, assuming there's something visible rotating at crankshaft speed to aim it at. If the timing does not change with RPM, it could cause the symptom you are seeing.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:37 AM   #11
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Did you happened to check the compression on both cyclinders ?
Ive seen several of those older machines lately melting down a piston.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:43 AM   #12
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how to check on the piston, it is 3 cylinder, when looking in the plug holes, I see movement in all three cylinders when dry cranking
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:44 AM   #13
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Start at the basics.

Check Spark, then compression.

if either of those 2 are not where they should be then that would be a problem

Next check your fuel system start with the pickup in the tank(make sure its still there) then make sure the check valve is not clogged, then replace your fuel filter and check your water separator if you have one. then check your fuel pump( blow into the inlet with both inlet and outlet removed, it should make a chirping noise, if not take it apart and see what's going on. Lastly check your Carburetors, drain your float bowls( if you have them, check for water) you should just take them off and give them a good cleaning.

Take the fuel out of the tank and put it in a clear container and wait 1 min. If there is any significant amount of water it will separate out in seconds before your eyes(that way your not throwing away good gas)

With this all checked you have spark, compression, and fuel. the only main thing left is the pump. Make sure you didnt suck something out and wipeout any vanes or blades on your impellor.

If you do all this it will run and you will find the problem

I would bet you clogged your carbs up since 90% of all problems are carburator related
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbsracingengines View Post
Did you happened to check the compression on both cyclinders ?
Ive seen several of those older machines lately melting down a piston.
The 780 is a 3 cyclinder.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:35 PM   #15
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Default Sounds like main cpu fuse or one of the sensors

First get the service manual so you have test proceedures and diagrams to locate the sensors such as oil and overheat and the main cpu fuse. Polaris had a limp in mode on their machines when the cpu lost primary power or it did not get a reading from one of the sensors. When it goes into limp in mode you will have smooth operation through a certain range of the throttle then at greater throttle the rpms will not increase and the engine will run rough. The main fuse is the most likely since if it lost primary power while running it would stall. On restart you would be starting in Limp in.
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:50 PM   #16
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Great thread on others with similar problems. One poster mentions that the SLT780 only had an rpm limiter (limp mode) for overheats only. They list some good troubleshooting tips pertaining to sensors.

http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=228772
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:10 AM   #17
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Default roll over

Was the machine flipped over while horsing around? My daughters machine ate a cylinder after it was flipped back over in the wrong direction. There is a red arrow depicting the correct direction of rotation in the event the machine is turned over while riding. IF the machine is not rolled in the correct direction, it scoops water into the exhaust system. Serious engine damage may occur. (A new piston at $1,400.00 in my daughters case)

The damage was discovered when the mechanic scoped the cylinder through a spark plug port. It took him one minute to discover the problem.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:59 AM   #18
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Was the machine flipped over while horsing around? My daughters machine ate a cylinder after it was flipped back over in the wrong direction. There is a red arrow depicting the correct direction of rotation in the event the machine is turned over while riding. IF the machine is not rolled in the correct direction, it scoops water into the exhaust system. Serious engine damage may occur. (A new piston at $1,400.00 in my daughters case)

The damage was discovered when the mechanic scoped the cylinder through a spark plug port. It took him one minute to discover the problem.
nope to this, was running just fine then just stalled out and then restarted and no much how much gas you give it, it goes the same speed, and will not hold idle.
I am wondering about the limp mode. I have to see if he has the manual for the machine to find where the fuses are
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Great thread on others with similar problems. One poster mentions that the SLT780 only had an rpm limiter (limp mode) for overheats only. They list some good troubleshooting tips pertaining to sensors.

http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=228772
good info but wicked confusing for a back yard guy

i think where to go is to check fuel filter, water bowl, then check fuses and then possibly disconnect the digital display as it is broken anyways and has been for a couple of years and might just be placing the machine into limp mode as stated in this other thread listed above. but I think further than that might not be worth it, but that is their decision not mine
I will work my best on it

real quick, where is the fuse panel on this machine, I am not with it, and will not be until Saturday
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:37 PM   #20
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The limp mode is definately something I would look at.They are normally triggered by high temp or low oil though but only in a 4-stroke for the latter.After cooling off though the limp mode hi temp sensor should allow it to operate properly for at least a little while so I don't know about that except if the temp sensor is bad.I might check that.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:41 PM   #21
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the engine cooled for multiple hours before I looked at it, i wonder if it is stuck. what i really need is a repair book and diagram as this is not my machine, I asked my neighbor to search for their owners manual.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:58 AM   #22
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Just found this in a forum:FWIW

Update #2:

OK, now I feel I'm making some headway.

Browsing the helpful tech threads here on the polaris models, I tried to reset the MFD, since it seems there is some sort of sensor error or failure(s) that can make the thing limit.

Here's what happened.

I went back outside after 20 minutes and fired it up. Boat ran perfectly. Shut it down, fired back up and it was rev limiting. (Seems it wasn't the plug wires or that was only part of it).

I held the mode and set buttons for 5 seconds til the CAL screen came up on the MFD. Hit set and it returned to normal and the blinking light went off. At that point, I refired and it ran perfectly. Shut it off and restarted only to rev limit.

I've repeated this sequence now 4 times, so I am sure it is something along the line of a sensor or the MFD itself that is causing the issue. This particular ski has a failed fuel baffle, such that it reads empty all the time. I've never owned a machine that rev limited on low fuel, but maybe this SLT does?

I had disconnected the fuel baffle from the Ebox as well as the temp sensor, but that had no change. I'm wondering if the MFD sends a signal to the CDI and once it's "limiting", it won't stop until there's a reset or something???

I feer I'm close to a solution, but I know that someone must have experienced this before, so I'm hoping for a chime in to either tell me I'm an idiot or tell me I'm right and here's the sequence to unfukk this machine, lol.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:06 AM   #23
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Definately read this thread.Lots of interesting fixes to try.

http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=228772
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:39 AM   #24
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Good info here, and the links you guys provided...

...and a Yamaha guy has the sequence..

Good reading..Thanx.
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Old 08-20-2012, 07:33 AM   #25
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Default Update!!

Still no luck but there was a revalation:
Clean fuel filter, clean carbs, throttle working correctly, gas seems to be a non issue (meaning it is not bad)
dash unit not the problem - disconnected it off and ran the same with it on or off
here is what is happening now:
runs almost like in limp mood, when you hit a wake and the machine either gets bumped by the wake or tilts up into the wake (as in comes out of the water a little and has less resistance maybe, or maybe something it sticking and the bump knocks it loose for a little bit), she takes off up to full speed, then eventually slows herself back to the slower speed, or if going good and start to make a turn the same things happens. I though it was tugging the wires in the dash unit, so i look at that, and there was no movement there

at this point I am thinking the ECM might has an issue, but I have not been able to find locate the water bowl on the machine to check this, as tilting up may make room for more gas flow and then turning shifts something around in there. Does anyone know where it is - is it the part that the fuel line runs into after the filter and gets separated into three lines to go into each carburator, I doubt it but I cannot see anything else.

Also I checked all wiring connections all are good and tight, engine also only about 7 years old-but was an exact replacement to the original.

I am going to get back on it, the end of this on the water bowl, before I hand it over to H&K, does anyone else have any ideas?
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:31 AM   #26
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Still no luck but there was a revalation:
Clean fuel filter, clean carbs, throttle working correctly, gas seems to be a non issue (meaning it is not bad)
dash unit not the problem - disconnected it off and ran the same with it on or off
here is what is happening now:
runs almost like in limp mood, when you hit a wake and the machine either gets bumped by the wake or tilts up into the wake (as in comes out of the water a little and has less resistance maybe, or maybe something it sticking and the bump knocks it loose for a little bit), she takes off up to full speed, then eventually slows herself back to the slower speed, or if going good and start to make a turn the same things happens. I though it was tugging the wires in the dash unit, so i look at that, and there was no movement there

at this point I am thinking the ECM might has an issue, but I have not been able to find locate the water bowl on the machine to check this, as tilting up may make room for more gas flow and then turning shifts something around in there. Does anyone know where it is - is it the part that the fuel line runs into after the filter and gets separated into three lines to go into each carburator, I doubt it but I cannot see anything else.

Also I check all wiring connections all are good and tight, engine also only about 7 years old-but was an exact replacement to the original.

I am going to get back on it, the end of this on the water bowl, before I hand it over to H&K, does anyone else have any ideas?
My recommendation at this point would be to pass it off to a dealer, although my advise would be to use Rochester Sports Center on route 125. Its a bit further out, but Carl and crew are excellent with these.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:16 PM   #27
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c'mon someone has got to have ideas here.
This is the Winni Forum, there is always answers!!!!
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:30 PM   #28
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c'mon someone has got to have ideas here.
This is the Winni Forum, there is always answers!!!!
ECM's are not cheap, and not returnable. If you think it is electrical such as ECM, I would let the dealer mess with it. If they mis-diagnose it, they own the part.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:05 AM   #29
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Given the last situation you mentioned, my thought is one of the floats is bad. When you hit the wake it would move the float into the correct position.

With a multi carb setup, having one carb not working correctly will allow the engine to run, but it will be running down a cylinder and will be very noticable. Low rpm will seem somewhat normal (there are tell tale signs of a cylinder not firing but it has to be heard and you need to know what to listen for, most folks just hear noise when listening to an engine run), but when you increase the throttle the bad cylinder will increasingly drag on the other two. This prevents the total package from optimizing and running out to higher rpm.

A question for those familar with this engine. Are the floats on these rubber or brass?

To test a bad float: Remove the float pin hinge and submerge in gasoline, look for bubbles. If no bubbles, release and see if it floats. If it passes both those test, pick it up and shake it next to your ear, there should be no sound at all (hold the pine hinge when doing this).

Either way I would not run this unit for prolonged periods, if it is a cylinder not firing, that puts a lot of pressure on the crank and will wear out the bearings next to that rod.

I would be very surprised if it was electrical related, given the last situation you presented. That would be a one in a million shot that two very different events (wake and turning) would recreate a lost connection.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:15 AM   #30
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jmen seems reasonable to be that, I did not even think about that. if that is the case, I am not touching it, carbs are not my things especially with three sync with each other
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:29 PM   #31
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ttt ... ...
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Old 07-23-2014, 07:47 AM   #32
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I am so sorry I forgot to post the results.

SO it turns out that one of the Piston heads developed a small pin hole in it.
Had a new head put on it, running like a champ now
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