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Old 10-20-2006, 12:02 PM   #1
Lakegeezer
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Default 2007 Boat Stickers are Green

The state sent out the renewal forms early this year. My green sitcker came back today, with a validation number in the 1700's. The expiration date is December 31, 2007, so I assume it is legal to use the sticker starting today. Skip? Any rules against boating under next year's colors?
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Old 10-20-2006, 03:30 PM   #2
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Default Boat reg decals...wanna risk it?

Good question, another one of those NH only quirky laws.

Look closesly at your new registration and note the date of issuance.

The section of the RSA pertaining to this question states thefollowing:

V. All registrations issued under this chapter shall expire on December 31 next following the date of issuance unless sooner terminated by the department.

Now I know your new reg says the expiration date is 12/31/2007.

However, if your date of issuance (on your new registration) is prior to 12/31/2006 then technically your "new" registration expires the end of this year.

So, do they post date the date of issuance to 01/01/2007?

I do not know, as I always register late and into the year the registration is due.

I would be curious if you could relay what your registration says.

Methinks that we may have yet another RSA that conflicts with itself and actual real world practice.

Back to your original question.

Since you are displaying the same bow numbers I would put the new stickers on if I had them but being careful to carry this year's current registration (which is good until 12/31/2006) and next year's "new" registration.

You show no intent to defraud the State here, the RSA is murky on the procedure and we know the good folks at NHMP would never cite you under these circumstances.

Right?

Err....

Simple answer?

Your guess is as good as mine on that one!
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:07 PM   #3
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Default Green Stickers and Green Boat?

Oh, this one should be good....... my hull is green, and so will be my new sticker. I just hope the NHMP doesn't stop us next year and tell us "there's not enough contrast between the sticker and the hull, go get a different color sticker" like they did when we had black numbers on a maroon hull........ yikes!
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:17 PM   #4
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Default

I always thought that the registration stickers were valid from Jan. 1st until Dec. 31st. of the year printed on the stickers. If that is the case, then the '06 stickers are good until the end of Dec. and there would be no need to display the new ones until Jan. 1st (if you plan to go boating in Jan. ).
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Old 10-21-2006, 05:53 AM   #5
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Default To sticker or not

To put the new stickers on would invite the attention of the NHMP. Stay with your old stickers until 1-1-07 then put the new colors on. For the one with the green hull and others too, just make sure your letters and numbers are the proper size, width, spacing, are a very contrasting color, read left to right with the validation sticker always to the right of the letters and numbers but within six inches of them and that will reduce the chance of unnecessary scrutiny.

The color is the visual key for officers when it comes to the validity of the registration or for that matter the inspection and registration stickers on your car, truck, etc.

We know your anxious but let's enjoy 2006 for a little longer. Still some good days on the water are ahead.
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Old 10-21-2006, 06:38 AM   #6
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Smile That Ol' Lakegeezer, up to his old tricks!

I think Lake Geezer's post was made while his tongue was firmly implanted in his cheek.....

My response was intended to show, especially when it comes to regulations regarding recreational activities here in New Hampshire, that the applicable laws and administrative rules can become very vague.

And I hope the good folks at NHMP are aware of next year's decal color and that the State they work for is already putting them in the mail for boaters!

Nowhere can I find a definitive phrase or verse that says the particular sticker in question must only be displayed from "January 1 until December 31" of the applicable registration year. The simple insertion of that phrase into the applicable RSA would remove all doubt to LG's question.

And quite frankly, since there are no instructions I can find to the contrary, I can imagine that some of those registering early and still utilizing their boats this season may inadvertently apply the decals, as LG as indicated.

At the risk of repeating myself, I have never registered my boat directly with the State. Maybe there is a note or instructions with the decal regarding display periods when they mail it to you? Quite frankly I always register in the community I boat in (Ossipee) so that a substantial portion of the fee stays with the community I play in, vice going to the State's pocket. But that's a whole 'nother story!

Ah, if life & laws were so simple!
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Old 10-21-2006, 08:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
.....Quite frankly I always register in the community I boat in (Ossipee) so that a substantial portion of the fee stays with the community I play in, vice going to the State's pocket. But that's a whole 'nother story!

Ah, if life & laws were so simple!
Can you expand on this Skip? Every fall the state sends me the renewal form, I usually wait until March or April and send it back with my money. So all that money goes to the state?

Is my other choice to take that registration renewal form to my favorite marina on launch day and pay them? Then that money goes to the town?
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Old 10-21-2006, 09:25 AM   #8
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Originally posted by Skip
Quote:
At the risk of repeating myself, I have never registered my boat directly with the State. Maybe there is a note or instructions with the decal regarding display periods when they mail it to you? Quite frankly I always register in the community I boat in (Ossipee) so that a substantial portion of the fee stays with the community I play in, vice going to the State's pocket. But that's a whole 'nother story!
About a week after the renewal forms arrived I received a letter from the state Division of Safety Services asking that the forms be returned directly to the Department of Safety in Concord as "an investment in preserving our public waters, ensuring that when you take to the waters it will be a safe and positive experience." It went on to describe what the dedicated funds support - the NH Marine Patrol and its programs.

I had no idea that where you register your boat determines how the money gets distributed. Since I don't use my boats in my home town, I don't think I'll be registering them there anymore.
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Old 10-21-2006, 12:27 PM   #9
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Default Where the money goes....

Yes, if you register your boat locally the registration fees stay with that community. If you send your money into the State, it goes in to the big black hole in Concord.

There is a nasty little battle going on right now between the State and the local waterfront towns as tthere appears to be a move by the State to secure funds that normally went local.

I read in the past few weeks that Laconia would stand to lose between 100k & 200K a year if they lose local registration fees. Gilford was not far behind, and I am sure Wolfeboro is close.

I am heading to camp for the rest of the day, but when I get back (if someone else hasn't already done so) I will try to find the articles on this subject and some of the pertinent regulations.

Suffice to say, when all is said and done I think it is much fairer to register locally where you recreate (to help offset costs you afford that community) then to send it to Concord, but that's just my opinion....

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Old 10-21-2006, 01:42 PM   #10
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I happen to have an old NH boat registration in my pocket and I looked, I could not find a box for a "date of issuance", just an expiration date.

Just to be safe I'd keep both registration certificates on board if you put the 2007 sticker on the boat now.

RE: boat registration money going to the state vs local community if you register through Concord...haven't we established that MP gets its funding exclusively through boat registration fees? If those fees go to local communities then it stands to reason it comes at the expense of funding for the Marine Patrol?
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Old 10-21-2006, 03:58 PM   #11
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Skip:

Unfortunately, most folks are probably going to register via Concord since the mail makes this option very convenient. That is what I did.
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:29 PM   #12
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On the back of the renewal form it says this about the boat fee portion of the registration cost:
1. If you register with the town, the town keeps it.
2. If you register at a marina, the town where the marina is located gets it.
3. If you send the renewal to Concord, the State gets it.
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Old 10-21-2006, 05:48 PM   #13
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Post Citizen editorial reference boat registrations...

As I do some more research, here is a recent Citizen editorial from 10/18/2006 criticizing the State for trying to scoop the aforementioned fees from local governments:

Boat registration tug-o-war

Here is the original article in the Citizen that sets the stage for the editorial referenced above:

State, Gilford at odds over registrations

Being aware of how the funds get distributed at the State level, while knowing the overall financial impact of the local communities incur that are never reimbursed by the State, it is still my opinion that you (and the community) are much better served by purchasing your registration locally where you boat most often!

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Old 10-21-2006, 06:46 PM   #14
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If all property were treated equal, same valuation regardless of location, then I would understand her point. However, shorefront property is valued and thus taxed higher and this scenario provides the community with a benefit from abutting the Lake.

Sounds like double dipping by the communities without regard for the needs of MP and the boating public.

If MP is not receiving its fair share from Concord, then its time for new blood in Concord and with elections around the corner, perhaps due thought needs to be given when voting.
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Old 10-21-2006, 08:01 PM   #15
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Smile Hmmmmm......let's try this again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWC...
...If all property were treated equal, same valuation regardless of location, then I would understand her point. However, shorefront property is valued and thus taxed higher and this scenario provides the community with a benefit from abutting the Lake....
A couple of things to remember....

When you send your money to Concord it goes into the State's general fund, it is not earmarked specifically to any agency....the Governor & the legislature appropriate the funds where they feel necessary.

Same goes with summonses, except the revenue generated from them goes to the Court having jurisdiction.

As for a community having lakeside property, no new revenue is generated by the higher appreciated homes along the water. That is a common misconception about how the property tax system works in this State. The community in question has an annual budget. The budget is paid for (in most part) by the property taxpayers. Your portion is determined by the tax rate mil multiplied by your assessed value. In the case of the lakeside homes in Wolfeboro, Laconia or Gilford this simply means that the higher assessed homes on the water contibute to a larger portion of the pie than the homes away from the water, however the size of the pie stays the same. The pie only increases in size if the local legislative body bakes a bigger pie, which they usually do on a annual basis!

The total taxes a community collects is driven up (or down) by how much the community spends and therefore needs to raise, not by the assessed value of the community. If you want to control property taxes in any community the solution is simple but rarely heeded. You just have to control (and in most cases reduce) spending! It's simply as simple as that.

Anyway, the property tax system is a whole 'nother thread.

In the case of the NHMP, you have to ask your State legislator why the State does not shift more funding to this agency. One of the multitude of reasons may be because the folks at Safety that are responsible for the overall budget request for that Department do not go to bat for it, feeling that any additional funding for Safety has priority elsewhere. Yes, we are all aggravated by the boneheads out there, but imagine you are sitting in Concord dividing up the pot. Do you dump a lot of money in an agency that oversees a recreational activity that overall has an excellent safety record with minimal injuries/deaths per thousands/millions partaking? Or do you shift limited funding to landbased agencies given the reprehensible carnage (and ever increasing violent crime rate) we still have on the highways of this State? Remeber, almost all residents of this State can relate to crime or problems on our byways/highways. Right or wrong, those of us with boating in our blood and the demand for more NHMP are still in a significant minority in this State. Most people in this State with the ears of their local legislator really cannot identify with the issues we relate to daily here with our warterborne adventures!

That said, what I believe the Clerk is protesting is the fact that if the State takes every cent of the registration fee from her community, there is no guarantee that any of that money would find it's way to the NHMP. Most likely, the NHMP will find itself lucky (outside of grant money) to even receive even funding this bufdget cycle, and could even find it's budget cut or having to shift more of it's resources to the seacoast. If so, the surrounding towns on the big Lake (and other waterside communities) will find the burden of providing some or all of the safety services falling on their respective shoulders, with less money in their general fund to pay for same.

Example. If the $81,000 Gilford received last year were put in the State's general fund via the boat registration process, that $81,00 could be eventually applied to landscaping services at the Statehouse instead of a nickel ever finding it's way to the NHMP. In the meantime, to maintain the same level of municipal services in Gilford, the Gilford taxpayers would have to tax it's citizens an extra $81,000 to make up the difference.

I think that the local legislators realize this dilemma and that's why they have refused to earmark all registration fees to be deposited in Concord.

I salute them, it's one time that they have kept their hands out of the cookie jar!
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Old 10-21-2006, 10:31 PM   #16
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You make a lot of valid points, as usual.

However, it would be nice if the value and tax situation were as it should be...

The valuation increased...

The tax billed increased...

and $81,000 is a drop in the bucket to Gilford's spenditis condition.

A lot of Reps bought the fear version for a speed limit to make the Lake safer.

Question: Why is Concord not pushing to better fund MP if so many there believe the Lake is unsafe?

Funding should reflect their feelings - or does it? Perhaps their votes were for job security and not reflective of their true feelings.

Then, again, what business person would spend thousands for a return of much less? Guess they have a money tree in their yard and think MP has one also.

P.S.- Your response was of its usual quality. I'm just exacerbated with Concord's methodology.

Interesting links:
http://www.sos.nh.gov/2006%20Receipt...ates/index.htm

http://www.sos.nh.gov/2006%20Receipt...pacs/index.htm

http://www.sos.nh.gov/political%20page.htm
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Old 10-22-2006, 05:05 AM   #17
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Post Cometh the Tax Man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWC...
... it would be nice if the value and tax situation were as it should be...
Boy, do we agree on this point!

And therein lies the rub, the inability of some (I will be polite & not say "so many") communities in this State to assess properties fairly and of course to spend tax dollars wisely!

Case in point, my home town of Dover. If you keep your eyes to the news in the ensuing months you will probably read of where this City has gone awry in it's assessing department.

Back to the sticker issue. I think the State refusing to issue decals to local communities while it was sending them out through it's own early renewal process speaks volumes to a lack of fairness here. That alone was enough to raise the hackles of local officials. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident and I think the lady in question works in a field where she is all to familiar with those kinds of shenanigans!

A question of too little dollars and too many people with their hands in the pot!

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Old 10-22-2006, 08:11 AM   #18
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Default date of issuance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves
I happen to have an old NH boat registration in my pocket and I looked, I could not find a box for a "date of issuance", just an expiration date.

Just to be safe I'd keep both registration certificates on board if you put the 2007 sticker on the boat now.

RE: boat registration money going to the state vs local community if you register through Concord...haven't we established that MP gets its funding exclusively through boat registration fees? If those fees go to local communities then it stands to reason it comes at the expense of funding for the Marine Patrol?
***************************************
Airwaves I took my old registration out and halfway down the page is a red line, just below the red line they insert the date that your check/money is paid. I think that is the validation that the fees had been paid.

And like a car I think you can put that on the boat when received and start using it.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:40 AM   #19
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You're right, I missed that on the old registration in my wallet. My reg says it was paid 14 Oct 02 (can't read the expiration date but I'll assume it's 12/03) so I guess I can put the new sticker on and start using it right away if I were so inclined.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:46 AM   #20
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I think that NH is just trying to get back at me for spending time in FL. FL always sends me my FL boat renewal just as I am leaving in May. This has caused loss of documents by Oct.
Now NH sent me the renewal in Oct. I received it the day I was leaving. I wonder where it will be in May when I need it??? In one of the 60 boxes I packed??? I am moving my NH residence to a new home in Wolfeboro and will be unpacking boxes for years.???

Green matches my boat. It is about time.

Now about the insurance on your boat not valid after a certain date. (Nov. 1??)
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Old 10-22-2006, 12:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves
You're right, I missed that on the old registration in my wallet. My reg says it was paid 14 Oct 02 (can't read the expiration date but I'll assume it's 12/03) so I guess I can put the new sticker on and start using it right away if I were so inclined.
Yes, I think you have received sufficient mileage from the old registration and sticker...
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Old 10-22-2006, 03:45 PM   #22
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Why would you say that?
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Old 12-23-2006, 08:22 AM   #23
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Default ...just got the sticker

Just got next year's stickers back fom the boat desk, down in Concord, and went and slapped them over the old ones. Oopsie, did I do a bad or what? Does this mean I cannot go boating now and have to wait until January 1 to keep from getting a violation ticket?

Also, what's the rules for bass fishing? It's all open season through the winter through the non-frozen open water, which obviously is the whole lake, as long as I'm rigged for bass and not for the out-of-season trout. If I'm using a spinnng rod rigged with some small fly and a light sliding bullet weight and fishing in water 10' deep or less, close to shore, that's legal for bass, correectimondo?

How about fishing at that stream that empties into Ellecoya Park? What's legal there?
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:20 PM   #24
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What is the color of the 07 sticker?
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:34 PM   #25
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i have a sport "old town" canoe which i am planning to put a 3 Hp motor to fish. Will this need to be registered and can it be done at Moultonboro town hall?
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:38 PM   #26
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Post Registration information...

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix
i have a sport "old town" canoe which i am planning to put a 3 Hp motor to fish. Will this need to be registered and can it be done at Moultonboro town hall?
Yes and and I believe yes.

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270-E
VESSEL REGISTRATION AND NUMBERING
Section 270-E:4
270-E:4 Exemptions From Registration. – The following vessels shall be exempt from registration in this state:
I. Sailboats under 12 feet in length, rowboats and canoes powered by sail, oars, paddles, or other human power. Any vessel which has an inboard or outboard motor shall not be exempt from registration except as provided in paragraph II. II. Vessels registered in another state or country temporarily using the waters of this state for not more than 30 consecutive days.
III. Vessels owned or operated by the United States government.
Source. 1990, 229:1, eff. Jan. 1, 1991.
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