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Old 06-30-2010, 11:07 AM   #1
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Default Marine Patrol to Enforce Shoreline and Navigation Light Violations

Please see below a copy of today's press release from the Marine Patrol. We are asking property owners and boaters alike to voluntarily comply with the state law that makes it illegal to display lights that can be mistaken for the prescribed navigation lights of a boat.

In an effort to eliminate confusing/illegal displays of lights that can often affect the stand-on vs. give-way vessel as it pertains to crossing and overtaking situations, we are asking folks to look at how they are illuminating their shoreline property. In addition, accent lighting on vessels that can be mistaken for the prescribed navigation lights also create hazards using the same scenario.

As a result we are making an effort to educate the public of the issue and provide them with notice that Marine Patrol will be enforcing these laws. For reference they are:

RSA 270-D:7:a
Administrative Rule Saf-C 403.19

If you have any questions, or have identified an area of concern, please call MP Headquarters at 603-293-2037. Thank you,

Safe Boating!!

Tim Dunleavy
Lieutenant
NH Marine Patrol


STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE

Department of Safety

Division of Safety Services, Bureau of Marine Patrol



NEWS RELEASE



For Immediate Release, Wednesday, June 30, 2010

Contact: Lt. Timothy Dunleavy, 603-293-2037



N.H. MARINE PATROL STEPS UP ENFORCEMENT AGAINST ILLEGAL OUTDOOR LIGHTING



Gilford, N.H. - The N.H. Marine Patrol is increasing its enforcement actions against illegal lighting along the shores of the state’s lakes. RSA 270-D:7-a makes it illegal to display at any point from the shore visible from the water, any lights that resemble in color or configuration the required navigation lights of any vessel. It is also illegal for a boat to exhibit any other lights which might be mistaken for the prescribed navigation lights.



With the increased availability of energy efficient lights and the variety of colors available, more red, green, and white lights are being displayed along the waterfront. They are being displayed on various structures, including porches, flagpoles, boathouses and docks.



The problem is the confusion that is created by the colored lights that leads boaters to believe they are seeing another boat on the water. Unlike motor vehicles, lights on boats are used for navigation purposes, not for seeing where you are traveling. Red, green, and white lights help boaters determine who has right of way, whether a boat is underway or at anchor, and whether a boat is a sailboat, rowboat, or powerboat.



In addition to the complaints being filed by the public, Marine Patrol officers have also reported certain light displays that are dangerous to navigation. A spotlight shining at the end of a dock toward the water quickly takes away the night vision of an operator that is critical to night navigation. Spotlights can also “drown out” the less bright navigation lights of another boat, making it difficult for boaters to see each other.



The Marine Patrol would also remind boaters that any light being exhibited in addition to the prescribed navigation lights for their vessel is also illegal. After-market accent light fixtures have become very popular the last several years with the emergence of LED (light-emitting diode) lighting. Boat operators must extinguish these types of lights before getting underway on the water.



Marine Patrol will be addressing these issues through education and enforcement. Voluntary compliance is appreciated. Please contact Marine Patrol Headquarters in Gilford at 603-293-2037 with any questions.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:14 AM   #2
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Smile Thanks Tim!

Thank you for the heads up.

But more importantly, thanks for coming aboard and posting!

I, like many others here, appreciate the fantastic job your Department does with the limited funding provided.

Hopefully you will be able to post and keep us up to date on important Marine Patrol messages in the future.

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Old 06-30-2010, 12:17 PM   #3
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Lt Dunleavy,

Thank you for the notification, and I hope that you and the department will continue to use this forum to help get the word out about issue such as this in the future.

The Marine Patrol does a wonderful job....
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:23 PM   #4
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Default Busted for red/green lights on boat house last year

Last August a very nice young MP officer stopped by to tell us that the red and green lights on the end of our boat house were illegal and gave us a copy of the RSA (as far as we can tell they have been there for 30 years or more). We turned them off and changed to yellow as we use them to find the house when we arrive in the early morning hours and I think a lot of people use them to slow for the no wake zone at the North end of Bear (we are about 500ft before the southern beginning. They are on each night from ice out till Nov 1. He said they could be mistaken for a boat and someone could move right or left and hit the island. I said that would be great as he would miss me right or left. The idiot that was navigating solely by what he thought was another boat's light will hit the island anyway.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:55 PM   #5
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Thanks for the note Tim.

We have a white light on a post at the end of our island breakwater that we never use (father in law installed it 30 years ago). He used it to find the dock on those dark and stormy nights prior to GPS. I was looking at it the other day thinking of removal.

But a question anyway. As such a white light could be confused with a stern or anchor light, does it fall into the illegal class? Or are only red and green lights at the shore illegal?
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:24 PM   #6
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Thanks Tim,

What a great way to get the word out. This has me thinking about any and all lights on my property and I will be walking around checking things out this weekend to make sure we comply.

Thanks again for the heads up and as usual great job!

CH
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Old 07-01-2010, 06:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickcraft View Post
... We have a white light on a post ... As such a white light could be confused with a stern or anchor light, does it fall into the illegal class? ...
I'd change it to one of those yellow bug-light bulbs. So far as I know, a constant yellow light has no navigation meaning.

Good luck!
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Old 07-02-2010, 06:24 AM   #8
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Wow,

it's great to have a post directly from Marine Patrol. I noticed it's their first post, and hopefully they will continue to interact directly with boaters on this forum. It seems like the best way to get official information directly to the boaters, and it also seems like a great way to have boating legal questions answered directly by the people who enforce them. (although we do already get some awesome advice on the law from Skip !)
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:11 AM   #9
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Default Thanks for posting!

In the last decade, 'light pollution' from the property owners have been a problem. Not only the green and red navigation lights cause confusion, it is hard to find the flashing light navaid. I use this extensively when navigating on a moonless night. It would be nice that folks shut off unnecessary lights along the shoreline and or use low wattage or yellow bulbs.

A good way to light decks and stairs are those rope lights. It does not 'pollute' as much as spot lights and yard lights.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:39 PM   #10
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Default A valuable resource.

Thanks for the post Lt. Tim!

As you may see from the above posts on the forum the members who do not all get to read the local papers can be a valuable tool in "getting the word out" from NHMP when the members are informed.

I would like to compliment your staff on the awsome job that you do maintaining the Aids to Navigation.

Misty Blue.
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Old 07-02-2010, 08:34 PM   #11
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I "used to" be able to navigate from the Meredith Neck, around Stonedam, through to Eagle and the Weirs even on the darkest of nights (except fog). The only trouble used to be the lights at the Weirs, which would interfere with the ability to see other boats on the water. Instead, I'd head down towards Meredith and turn back towards the Weirs.

Some of the boathouses on Governor's Island ha=d neat lights, which I'd also use as landmarks. Wouldn't you know, one weekend his lights were out
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Old 07-03-2010, 06:52 PM   #12
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Totally agree with removal of confusing lights.
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Old 07-03-2010, 09:14 PM   #13
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Lightbulb

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Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
"...A good way to light decks and stairs are those rope lights. It does not 'pollute' as much as spot lights and yard lights..."
Great idea!

At a yard sale, I bought a string of rope lights for one dollar. They are red, white and blue. 'Guess I can finally place them prominently downstairs this weekend!
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:06 AM   #14
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Thumbs down Some dissenting comments and a couple quasi-rhetorical questions

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Originally Posted by Kamper View Post
I'd change it to one of those yellow bug-light bulbs. So far as I know, a constant yellow light has no navigation meaning.

Good luck!
Close, but solid yellows are used, too.

I already typed this once but for some reason it wouldn't post and I lost it (censorship? ).

Quote:
270-D:7-a Shore Lights. – No person shall display, at any point on the shore visible from the water, any lights that resemble in color or configuration the required navigation lights of any vessel.
Source. 2006, 283:1, eff. Jan. 1, 2007.
"Any vessel". Hmm, what about vessel engaged in towing? I'm sure you won't really see it on Winnipesaukee, but white, red, green, amber, and yellow lights are all used as "navigation lights" on vessels.

So this overbroad law makes all those lights illegal. Examples: any lighthouse, ironically; any light that isn't pink or purple (?) that is on land but visible from the water; Weirs Beach pier; Glendale/NHMP docks.

I am not a waterfront landowner, MP says that they will be enforcing this law? Exactly how so? Does an MPO who believes he sees a light in violation (and he is given a LOT of discretion with this law) think he can tie up to a landowner's dock, walk on his property, knock on the door of the house, and issue a citation? This seems to me to be well out of the jurisdiction of the NHMP. Sounds to me like an unfunded mandate. What if a landowner relies on a set of lights on land to safely navigate back to his docks? Maybe as compensation for shutting them off, the landowner would be given a chartplotter?

I've done a lot of boating at night (maybe...400 hours?), and I have never mistaken lights on land for lights on water or vice versa. Never any close calls, either. The key is knowing the waters one is operating in, slowing down if one sees anything abnormal or questionable, proper use of a compass vs. chart vs. sharp eyes that have had time to adjust to the dark, and doing all of this sober (last but definitely not least...). It really is not that hard.


Quote:
The Marine Patrol would also remind boaters that any light being exhibited in addition to the prescribed navigation lights for their vessel is also illegal.
Are you saying that the use of a spotlight is illegal and will be enforced as such? I have to strongly disagree. While a spotlight can be abused and blind an operator--like what a MPO did to me last summer when he pulled me over, then expected me to safely operate immediately after, I digress--it is an invaluable tool to have at night while navigating.

I think instead of giving waterfront owners these ridiculous mandates, we should be asking boaters to know where they're going. Why is everybody so happy to hear this news? "baaaaaaaaaahhhhhh"
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:22 AM   #15
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Default Spotlights

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Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee View Post
Are you saying that the use of a spotlight is illegal and will be enforced as such? I have to strongly disagree. While a spotlight can be abused and blind an operator--like what a MPO did to me last summer when he pulled me over, then expected me to safely operate immediately after, I digress--it is an invaluable tool to have at night while navigating.
The law is not referencing spotlights. It says that it is illegal to have lights that may be confused as navigation lights exhibited. Using a spotlight intermittently as an aid in navigation is not the same.

Last edited by Pricestavern; 07-08-2010 at 04:28 AM. Reason: Clarity/Accuracy
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:48 AM   #16
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Post NHMP Officer's authority pursuant to RSA 270-12-a

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee View Post
... Does an MPO who believes he sees a light in violation (and he is given a LOT of discretion with this law) think he can tie up to a landowner's dock, walk on his property, knock on the door of the house, and issue a citation? This seems to me to be well out of the jurisdiction of the NHMP...
RSA 270:12-a. I, (a) gives the Director of the Division of Safety Services or his duly authorized representatives (NHMP Officers) that exact power.

However I think that in actuality most folks would be warned that the particular lighting was in violation and given an opportunity to fix the problem and a citation would probably only be issued in a case of refusal to comply or gross negligence.

One thing to remember is the civil liability inherent in this issue. There is a statute that prohibits this type of lighting. But if someone gets in an accident and claims that they were confused or misled by a lighting display, the property owner could easily find themselves liable in civil court.

With that in mind I would think that a property owner would welcome a visit and warning by a NHMP Officer if they have lighting that could cause issues.

And as the LT stated in his post, a call to the good folks at NHMP can clear up any confusion or answer specific questions in reference to this particular issue!
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:16 AM   #17
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I think this law is much todo about nothing. How many people have lights on shore have red/green lights pretending to be boats, and then how many people really can't tell these red/green lights are on shore and not on a boat? Finally how many people who do make this mistake, cause an accident?

This is a very small number times a very small number times a very small number.

But it's obviously a law and within the MP jurusdiction. If they start issuing citations for every white light on shore, saying that someone might mistake it for an anchor light, they are not going to have much time for anything else.
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
With that in mind I would think that a property owner would welcome a visit and warning by a NHMP Officer if they have lighting that could cause issues.
Again, I am not a waterfront property owner, but I sure wouldn't. Since the "violation" would occur at night, possibly when I am sleeping, I would NOT want anybody on my property and especially approaching my house. A phone call or letter would be much more appropriate.
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:00 PM   #19
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I was out on the water last night, and became quite confused. I noticed several "boats" displaying one white light and one red light, that seemed to be traveling backward!

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Old 07-17-2010, 02:29 PM   #20
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Good one, Winnipesaukee !!!

hahha.................. I saw those same boats .........
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:16 AM   #21
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Cool Keep the bug- and spider- populations down, too...

Quote:
If they start issuing citations for every white light on shore, saying that someone might mistake it for an anchor light, they are not going to have much time for anything else.
Do what I do: extinguish every outdoor light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee View Post
I was out on the water last night, and became quite confused. I noticed several "boats" displaying one white light and one red light, that seemed to be traveling backward!
Backwards would have a green light displayed.
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:07 PM   #22
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Does this help?
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Old 07-23-2010, 06:35 AM   #23
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I read this thread earlier and was satisfied in my mind that we were not in violation of this rule. We don't light up our dock or have any landscaping lights installed.

Not so! Last week some friends picked me up for a sunset boatride and we ended up anchored about 1/2 mile directly south of our camp. I was amazed to see that a little novelty solar-powered LED dragonfly decoration in one of my flowerpots was visible from that distance. I sat there and watched it as it changed colors (including red and green). At that distance, all you saw was the light and the color, there was no way to tell if it was onshore or off.

Needless to say, as soon as I was dropped off, that dragonfly was moved to the back of the camp.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:14 AM   #24
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Default light change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
RSA 270:12-a. I, (a) gives the Director of the Division of Safety Services or his duly authorized representatives (NHMP Officers) that exact power.

However I think that in actuality most folks would be warned that the particular lighting was in violation and given an opportunity to fix the problem and a citation would probably only be issued in a case of refusal to comply or gross negligence.

One thing to remember is the civil liability inherent in this issue. There is a statute that prohibits this type of lighting. But if someone gets in an accident and claims that they were confused or misled by a lighting display, the property owner could easily find themselves liable in civil court.

With that in mind I would think that a property owner would welcome a visit and warning by a NHMP Officer if they have lighting that could cause issues.

And as the LT stated in his post, a call to the good folks at NHMP can clear up any confusion or answer specific questions in reference to this particular issue!

Marine patrol stopped by our dock last week (after dusk) to inform us of the lights on our dock and give us literature on the law. I informed them (because I read it here first) that we had ordered new domes to replace the green/red and they would be in place in a week or two. They were both very professional and friendly and then they went to the next dock to inform them.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Marine patrol stopped by our dock last week (after dusk) to inform us of the lights on our dock and give us literature on the law. I informed them (because I read it here first) that we had ordered new domes to replace the green/red and they would be in place in a week or two. They were both very professional and friendly and then they went to the next dock to inform them.
Thanks for that first hand update.

Its no surprise to me that you found them professional and friendly. In reality they are trying to do everything humanly possible to get people aware of the issue and comply voluntarily, including their willingness to post here.

Great to hear your story!
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Marine patrol stopped by our dock last week (after dusk) to inform us of the lights on our dock and give us literature on the law. I informed them (because I read it here first) that we had ordered new domes to replace the green/red and they would be in place in a week or two. They were both very professional and friendly and then they went to the next dock to inform them.
Just curious GTO since you know there is an issue with your lights why are you still using them while waiting for your new domes? Now that you stated here in a public forum that you know there is an issue with them could you be held liable if there was an accident? Glad the MP's were nice about it, that has been my experience in the couple of dealings with them over the years.

Skip, comments about liability?
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:47 PM   #27
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Are there any requirements to have either lighting or reflectors on your dock?

I would think reflectors might be a good practice.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEJ View Post
Just curious GTO since you know there is an issue with your lights why are you still using them while waiting for your new domes? Now that you stated here in a public forum that you know there is an issue with them could you be held liable if there was an accident? Glad the MP's were nice about it, that has been my experience in the couple of dealings with them over the years.

Skip, comments about liability?
There's that old saying that goes something like this; "you can be sued by anybody, at any time, for any thing!".

As always intent and "state of mind" are important factors in determining culpability and responsibility.

Two things come to mind:

I have never heard or read of a verifiable accident that has occured on Winni due to the fact that a boater was intentionally or accidentally led astray by shore lights. But I do believe the potential does exist and that is why the NHMP is taking a proactive approach to minimize or eliminate the possibility.

But with that said, if a government official has spoken to me on the record about a potential problem, I will assume that there is a record of that conversation. Hence, I myself would douse the lights until the replacement parts arrived.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:28 PM   #29
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Default read again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEJ View Post
Just curious GTO since you know there is an issue with your lights why are you still using them while waiting for your new domes? Now that you stated here in a public forum that you know there is an issue with them could you be held liable if there was an accident? Glad the MP's were nice about it, that has been my experience in the couple of dealings with them over the years.

Skip, comments about liability?


Never said I was still using them.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:39 PM   #30
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Marine patrol stopped by our dock last week (after dusk) to inform us of the lights on our dock and give us literature on the law. I informed them (because I read it here first) that we had ordered new domes to replace the green/red and they would be in place in a week or two. They were both very professional and friendly and then they went to the next dock to inform them.
I'm curious, GTO. Did he mention anything about the dock light that illuminates the NW quadrant of the lake?
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:30 PM   #31
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Never said I was still using them.
Good response and a good way to CYA.
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:32 PM   #32
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Never said I was still using them.
I think the point he was trying to make is that he was surprised you were still using them until MP stopped by even though you were aware they were in violation of the law.

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Old 08-05-2010, 05:30 PM   #33
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I think the point he was trying to make is that he was surprised you were still using them until MP stopped by even though you were aware they were in violation of the law.

Nowhere did I write I was using them before they came or after they arrived. I said MP came at dusk. Never said the lights were on at any time.
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Old 08-05-2010, 05:32 PM   #34
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I'm curious, GTO. Did he mention anything about the dock light that illuminates the NW quadrant of the lake?
Give me a break on that one Gatto, I need a beacon to guide me back to the docks after the fireworks.....plus I slipped them both a 20 and they turned the other way
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:43 PM   #35
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I'm curious, GTO. Did he mention anything about the dock light that illuminates the NW quadrant of the lake?
He probably thought it was the sun setting...
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:21 PM   #36
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Nowhere did I write I was using them before they came or after they arrived. I said MP came at dusk. Never said the lights were on at any time.
Not picking on you....really.....but how would they know you had them if they weren't illuminated and it was dusk?

I wouldn't think it illegal to possess such lights....but illuminating them....well....

Anyway, ......I'll move on....thanks for playing.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:33 AM   #37
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Default my guess....

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Not picking on you....really.....but how would they know you had them if they weren't illuminated and it was dusk?

I wouldn't think it illegal to possess such lights....but illuminating them....well....

Anyway, ......I'll move on....thanks for playing.

They probably noticed the red and green domes (easily visable) during the day and then didn't make their rounds to educate everyone until dusk...that would be my best guess
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:38 AM   #38
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They probably noticed the red and green domes (easily visable) during the day and then didn't make their rounds to educate everyone until dusk...that would be my best guess
Yeah, they saw the domes during the day! Yeah, that's the ticket
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:20 AM   #39
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Default lol...

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Yeah, they saw the domes during the day! Yeah, that's the ticket
As DEJ mentioned....CYA. Anyways, I thought after seeing that crane in front of your place for a couple of weeks, that you were building that rock seawall high enough to block the lights from around the lake
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:38 AM   #40
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Default My guess

I am sure during the week they checked out the lake front properties of a particular area and then they needed to address the owners when they where available. A in person visit is much more costly then a form letter, but it does add a personnel touch.

On another note, A marine patrol vessel was pulling in and out of properties in the forty islands and I asked them what they where doing. The marine patrol was identifying ways to enter the property if there was a emergency. This way they would be able to avoid some of the underwater obstacles in front of some homes.

I thought that was very commendable
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:53 PM   #41
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Yeah, they saw the domes during the day! Yeah, that's the ticket
Good answer, Good answer .....Richard Dawson.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:36 AM   #42
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Post Message is getting out....

Coming through the Alton Bay area last night on Route 11 I noticed that several prominent boathouses that used to display red and green lights (similar to navigation lights) had changed bulbs. They were now amber in color.

This was a change since my last trip through there about a month ago.

Apparently the NHMP is indeed getting the word out this summer....
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:49 PM   #43
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coming through the alton bay area last night on route 11 i noticed that several prominent boathouses that used to display red and green lights (similar to navigation lights) had changed bulbs. They were now amber in color.

This was a change since my last trip through there about a month ago.

Apparently the nhmp is indeed getting the word out this summer....
apparently nhmp has one rule for people to change their lights.
The law is no similar to boat lights. What about bridges with the
lights there is on exception to the rule i see...
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Old 08-21-2010, 10:47 AM   #44
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Default lights

We had a neighbor that had a new boat many years ago, If I recall it was a Grady White. Nice boat. However the green light and red light were reversed and after several comings and goings, We told him one night. He went home turned on his boat lights and was out with a screwdriver to fix the problem. so has anyone else mixed up there lights when replacing a bulb or something?
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:35 AM   #45
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... What about bridges with the
lights there is on exception to the rule i see...
Under Federal rules, bridges are lighted same as a channel (red right returnning from the sea), and piers same as a vessel.

As far as I can tell State rules don't require anything. Those lights under bridges are advisory and I have only seen them on Winni. They may be on other places but I haven't seen them on the rivers I have been on. From the posts here it looks like NHMP is discouraging anything too complex on docks.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:52 PM   #46
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Default Accent Lights

Just wondering--if you display blue accent lights while at anchor, you're not in violation of the law? If i read Lt Dunleavy's post correctly, it's only a problem to have those lights on in addition to your required NAV lights when you're underway.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:05 PM   #47
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This was addressed in another thread earlier this year that I started asking if I could basically be running at night with my under deck (blue) lighting switched on.

After a lot of debate (forum style) I simply directed the question to MP in am email.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17536


The answer to your question is your NOT in violation while at anchor !

The flip side of that is that emphatically you cannot be "underway" with anything other than your require navigation lights on (this includes interior lighting).



.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:55 AM   #48
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This was addressed in another thread earlier this year that I started asking if I could basically be running at night with my under deck (blue) lighting switched on.

After a lot of debate (forum style) I simply directed the question to MP in am email.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17536


The answer to your question is your NOT in violation while at anchor !

The flip side of that is that emphatically you cannot be "underway" with anything other than your require navigation lights on (this includes interior lighting).



.
This part I have to question. I have dash lights, navigation GPS etc. that are lit.
Cuddy cabin lights that show through windows. You telling me they say that none of these can be on whilst I am navigating??

Need a reference law number to verify.

ToW
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:14 AM   #49
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Default Interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
This was addressed in another thread earlier this year that I started asking if I could basically be running at night with my under deck (blue) lighting switched on.

After a lot of debate (forum style) I simply directed the question to MP in am email.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17536


The answer to your question is your NOT in violation while at anchor !

The flip side of that is that emphatically you cannot be "underway" with anything other than your require navigation lights on (this includes interior lighting).



.

I had my skirt lights on while at anchor and watching the fireworks display in Wolfeboro bay. Marine Patrol pulled up along side and very nicely informed me that I had to turn them off and they were in fact illegal to use in the state of NH. I specifically asked him if it was illegal even though I was at anchor and not underway. He informed that they are not to be turned on at anytime while in NH waters...

FWIW;

Dan
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:17 AM   #50
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This part I have to question. I have dash lights, navigation GPS etc. that are lit.
Cuddy cabin lights that show through windows. You telling me they say that none of these can be on whilst I am navigating??

Need a reference law number to verify.

ToW
A number of cabin cruiser owners as well as I were pulled over and politely asked to turn out the cockpit and cabin lights while underway. This was not recently and I know of no one that got a citation.

Although they did not mention dash or equipment lights.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:22 AM   #51
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A number of cabin cruiser owners as well as I were pulled over and politely asked to turn out the cockpit and cabin lights while underway. This was not recently and I know of no one that got a citation.

Although they did not mention dash or equipment lights.
I beleive on most boats the dash lights are on the same circuit/switch as the nav lights.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:12 PM   #52
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Default Night vision is literally critical when night boating

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I beleive on most boats the dash lights are on the same circuit/switch as the nav lights.
You are correct. That is why I added a separate toggle switch to turn off those blinding dash lights. All boats should be so-equipped as very often those gauges also reflect in the windshield. I just flick it on momentarily to check status once in a while. I probably should have made it a dimmer switch instead of a toggle, but it was one I had already. Any marina could easily do this for you.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:20 PM   #53
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You are correct. That is why I added a separate toggle switch to turn off those blinding dash lights. All boats should be so-equipped as very often those gauges also reflect in the windshield. I just flick it on momentarily to check status once in a while. I probably should have made it a dimmer switch instead of a toggle, but it was one I had already. Any marina could easily do this for you.
Most high end boats and all performance boats come with a separate dash switch. I do what Orion do to keep my visibility intact. High Performance boats has the white light attach to the stern and at the windshield toward the bow in order to prevent the white light blinding you.
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Old 09-06-2014, 06:19 AM   #54
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I had my skirt lights on while at anchor and watching the fireworks display in Wolfeboro bay. Marine Patrol pulled up along side and very nicely informed me that I had to turn them off and they were in fact illegal to use in the state of NH. I specifically asked him if it was illegal even though I was at anchor and not underway. He informed that they are not to be turned on at anytime while in NH waters...

FWIW;

Dan
That is a complete contradiction to what was mailed to me...... See below, this is the email I received (less my personal info- name address, etc)

The key phrase here is "while underway"



July 3, 2014

Dear Mr xxxx
I checked with one of our Sergeants before responding to your question. He stated that the law is very clear on this and they do not allow any lights on a boat while it is underway OTHER than the approved navigational lights.


Bruce A. Klinger - Communications Specialist II
New Hampshire State Police - Marine Patrol Bureau

Headquarters - 31 Dock Road Gilford, NH 03249
603-293-2037 Fax @ HQ: 293-0096

Communications – IPOC
110 Smokey Bear Blvd Concord, NH 03301
www.marinepatrol.nh.gov
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:10 AM   #55
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Default And the Law/rules say

Here is a copy of CHAPTER Saf-C 400 WATERCRAFT SAFETY RULES,

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rule.../saf-c400.html

See red paragraph.



Saf-C 403.15 Lights on all Motorboats.



(a) All motorboats, including boats propelled by outboard motors, shall while under way, carry lights with distances of visibility on clear nights shown as follows:



(1) For class A and I motorboats:



a. A bright white light aft to show all around the horizon; and



b. A combined light on the fore part of the vessel and lower than the white light aft, showing green to starboard and red to port, so fixed as to throw the light from right ahead to 2 points abaft the beam of their respective sides; and



(2) For class II and III motorboats:



a. A bright white light in the fore part of the vessel as near the stem as practicable, so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 20 points of the compass, so fixed as to throw the light 10 points on each side of the vessel, namely, from straight ahead to 2 points abaft the beam on either side;



b. A bright white light aft to show all around the horizon, and higher than the white light forward;



c. On the starboard side, a green light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 10 points of the compass, so fixed as to throw the light from straight ahead to 2 points abaft the beam on the starboard side;



d. On the port side, a red light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 10 points of the compass, so fixed as to throw the light from straight ahead to 2 points abaft the beam on the port side; and



e. The side lights shall be fitted with inboard screens of sufficient height and so set as to prevent these lights from being seen across the bow.



(b) Each motorboat shall carry only the combined light or separate side lights as appropriate to its class. Additionally, one white light at the stern so constructed that it shall show an unbroken light over an area of the horizon of 12 points of the compass so fixed as to show the light 6 points from right aft on each side of the vessel.



(c) When propelled by both sail and machinery a motorboat shall carry the lights required by this section for a motorboat propelled by machinery only.



(d) Every white light prescribed by this section shall be of such character as to be visible at a distance of at least 2 miles. Every colored light prescribed by this section shall be of such character as to be visible at a distance of at least one mile. The word "visible" in this paragraph, when applied to lights, means visible on a dark night with clear atmosphere.



(e) Any motorboat may carry and exhibit the lights required by the federal requirements for preventing collisions at sea, 1960, International Rules of the Road, federal act of September 24, 1963, 33 USC 1051-1053, 1061-1094, 77 Stat. 194-210, as amended, in lieu of the lights required by this section.



Hope this helps us all


ToW
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Old 09-08-2014, 02:02 PM   #56
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The Marine Patrol would also remind boaters that any light being exhibited in addition to the prescribed navigation lights for their vessel is also illegal. After-market accent light fixtures have become very popular the last several years with the emergence of LED (light-emitting diode) lighting. Boat operators must extinguish these types of lights before getting underway on the water.


Marine Patrol will be addressing these issues through education and enforcement. Voluntary compliance is appreciated. Please contact Marine Patrol Headquarters in Gilford at 603-293-2037 with any questions.
This is a portion is the law that I disagree with, there have been many times where the stern light blends in with the shore and is not visible until you are upon the other boat. If a small degree of accessory lights were allowed, it would, in my opinion, help distinguish a boat from the shoreline.

It does also raise an interesting question that I have not seen raised, do the MT Washington and the Wolfes Tavern (the paddle boat) have exemptions from this law? They have a tremendous amount of additional lights displayed while underway in comparison to the cockpit lights of pleasure boats. Don't get me worn, I love seeing those and enjoy how they look at night, I am just not sure how effective this part of the law is and would like to hear other boaters opinions.
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Old 09-08-2014, 02:32 PM   #57
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Default Commercial vessels

I don't see any exceptions for commercial vessels. Perhap the Mt Washington fleet and the Bell are violating the law?
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Old 09-08-2014, 02:42 PM   #58
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I don't see any exceptions for commercial vessels. Perhap the Mt Washington fleet and the Bell are violating the law?
Or the law is improperly defined?
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:42 PM   #59
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I don't see any exceptions for commercial vessels. Perhap the Mt Washington fleet and the Bell are violating the law?
Actually the rules posted only apply to Class A,I,II and III boats which covers boats up to 65 feet in length.


In addition the definition of boat is

Quote:
270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter:
I. "Boat'' means every description of watercraft other than seaplanes, capable of being used or used as a means of transportation on the water and which is primarily used for noncommercial purposes, or leased, rented, loaned or chartered to another for such use.
Seems to me that the Mt Washington or Winni Belle don't have to abide by any laws referring to "Boats"
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Old 09-09-2014, 07:25 AM   #60
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Default Leased. rental

So that is why the leased pontoons are cruising around with their dock lights glaring!
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Old 09-09-2014, 07:28 AM   #61
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Aren't those boats considered charters as they sell tickets to passengers?
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:32 AM   #62
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The law is being interpreted to give the MP the most opportunity to stop suspicious boats at night. Just obey the MP guy when he says "turn off those cabin lights". What he is really saying is, are you sober enough to understand me?

Its not right, but until you want to fight it in court just obey.
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Old 09-09-2014, 03:33 PM   #63
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The law is being interpreted to give the MP the most opportunity to stop suspicious boats at night. Just obey the MP guy when he says "turn off those cabin lights". What he is really saying is, are you sober enough to understand me?

Its not right, but until you want to fight it in court just obey.
So we are all ok with that? It's not enforced fairly, and we are in fear of getting pulled over because it's vague?
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:10 PM   #64
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So we are all ok with that? It's not enforced fairly, and we are in fear of getting pulled over because it's vague?

I'm not okay with that. At the moment it's a case of "You get the justice you can afford." .
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:56 PM   #65
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Default Insufficient lighting

In my opinion the lighting laws need to be changed.

Anyone who has boated at night will tell you that it is sometimes difficult to see boats and that some boat lighting blends in with the shore. A few more lights on the side of a boat similar to the marker lights of a large truck would help a lot.

I had a flybridge cruiser on the lake for many years. After too many close calls at night, when approaching boats did not seem to see my boat, I decided to leave some of the cabin lights on at night. It eliminated the problem.

I would respectfully suggest that unless additional lighting was a hazard to navigation it should be ignored by the Marine Patrol. Citations and warnings should be used to solve a problem, not generate activity and revenue.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:10 AM   #66
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I would respectfully suggest that unless additional lighting was a hazard to navigation it should be ignored by the Marine Patrol. Citations and warnings should be used to solve a problem, not generate activity and revenue.
Agreed, and to me cockpit lighting helps visibility and doesn't hurt navigation as in most cases, its lower in the cockpit and not like a docking light that shines directly at other boats.

Off topic:
I have also heard rumor that the noise ordnance is now being tested at the scene and is you are over the limit at idle, they tow your boat, how can that be???
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:30 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni View Post
Agreed, and to me cockpit lighting helps visibility and doesn't hurt navigation as in most cases, its lower in the cockpit and not like a docking light that shines directly at other boats.

Off topic:
I have also heard rumor that the noise ordnance is now being tested at the scene and is you are over the limit at idle, they tow your boat, how can that be???
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Old 09-10-2014, 03:45 PM   #68
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Off topic:
I have also heard rumor that the noise ordnance is now being tested at the scene and is you are over the limit at idle, they tow your boat, how can that be???
I have wet mufflers. At low speed and when the motor is cold there is very little water passing through the devices. I have more noise at idle. But at planning speed and higher the water passing through really quiet down the exhaust. I have a piece of paper that says I passed back in the 90's when the law says to test at WOT. Now your telling me the laws have changed and I am not grandfathered?
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:21 PM   #69
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I have wet mufflers. At low speed and when the motor is cold there is very little water passing through the devices. I have more noise at idle. But at planning speed and higher the water passing through really quiet down the exhaust. I have a piece of paper that says I passed back in the 90's when the law says to test at WOT. Now your telling me the laws have changed and I am not grandfathered?
One thing that makes me unhappy about NH is how they change laws or application of the laws without any hearings or notice. Not at all customer friendly.

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Old 09-10-2014, 10:29 PM   #70
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Default Hearings?

The legislature holds lots of hearings, but they're held from January to May when they are in session. Belonging to an association, NHLAKES, Gilford Islands, Bear Island, Marine Trades Assoc., etc will put you on a mailing list. Even if you live out of state in the winter you can provide input through your association or through the Rep. or Senator where you spend your lake time.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:55 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni View Post
Off topic:
I have also heard rumor that the noise ordnance is now being tested at the scene and is you are over the limit at idle, they tow your boat, how can that be???
This is surely just what you state a rumor. The problem with rumors is that they create confusion.

Now they may test your idle noise level to verify a suspicion that you are over the law at idle. That I will believe. And if you are over the legal limit at idle, they will probably ask you to get your boat off the water until a formal test can be conducted both at speed and at idle. This also gives you the time to correct the problem, so that hopefully when you show up for the test you have a boat that will legally pass.

I doubt very much that they would tow your boat. The Marine Patrol will not even tow a distressed boat, unless it is in immediate danger.

Now what may have been witnessed is a repeat offender of the law, getting caught. If that is the case then I would suspect that they have the right to impound the boat, to prove that the boat was brought into compliance, for a date at some point, and was then found to have been tampered with and brought out of compliance currently. This however is conjecture on my part....

Rumors are Rumors. If there is truly concern about this happening, I would suggest someone correspond directly with the Marine Patrol.
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:02 PM   #72
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In my opinion the lighting laws need to be changed.
There is no doubt the law governing recreational boat lighting need to be revisited. Cockpit and cabin lights are usually not a problem. However the now popular underwater accent lights can be an issue, as they can drowned out the nav lights from a distance. I have noticed this several times this summer. As for dashboard instrument lights, they are just like instrument cluster lights in a car... they are not a problem, unless the effect your night vision. Even the rules for cars don't detail the instrument cluster lights.

And oh by the way that is the difference when you look at the Mount, it is a commercial Vessel and laws are different.
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:49 AM   #73
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Default Totally agree!

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There is no doubt the law governing recreational boat lighting need to be revisited. Cockpit and cabin lights are usually not a problem. However the now popular underwater accent lights can be an issue, as they can drowned out the nav lights from a distance. I have noticed this several times this summer. As for dashboard instrument lights, they are just like instrument cluster lights in a car... they are not a problem, unless the effect your night vision. Even the rules for cars don't detail the instrument cluster lights.

And oh by the way that is the difference when you look at the Mount, it is a commercial Vessel and laws are different.
One moonless dark evening, I detected a boat in my path solely by the dash lights as he didn't have ANY nav lights! With the availability and now lower cost of LED lighting, I would like to see an acceptable standard allowing for a lighted side stripe, perhaps running the length of the boat, maybe in the green and red colors per the bow light rules. With the low power consumption of LEDs they could even be tied into the ignition to operate any time the motor is operating and the shifter is in gear (sort of like daytime running lights in a car). I often see boaters who put their anchor light on instead of their nav lights or forget to put any on at all.
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:41 AM   #74
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Now your telling me the laws have changed and I am not grandfathered?
I have the same situation on the mufflers, I have never been tested. I will not go into who, but this is what I was told by someone that was stopped, tested and if not for being near their dock, was told they were getting fined towed and now allowed on the lake until its fixed and retested.
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:10 AM   #75
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Broadhopper, what Webbsat said is exactly what I was told. These people were stopped despite the fact that they had the paper from a previous experience. That means our paper could be no good either. We always carry it in the boat with us but seems like now it might be just a useless piece of paper. I didn't hear anything about the towing though.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:17 AM   #76
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Default playing Devil's Advocate

What I don't understand is how Marine patrol has jurisdiction on land. If they have no jurisdiction on a boat once it is tied up to private property (dock), how do they have the right to tell me what to do/use on land?
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:50 AM   #77
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What I don't understand is how Marine patrol has jurisdiction on land. ... ?
To specifically answer your question, It's written into the statute.

There was a lengthy thread a few years ago where it was explained that almost any NH sworn police officer can act if observing a crime. Woodsy provided insight on the details.
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Old 09-15-2014, 08:04 AM   #78
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To specifically answer your question, It's written into the statute.

There was a lengthy thread a few years ago where it was explained that almost any NH sworn police officer can act if observing a crime. Woodsy provided insight on the details.
without going into detail and also a search, is it s crime? (again just looking for insight, not questioning
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:50 AM   #79
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I have decided to send a letter to the Marine Patrol, for clarification on how noise violations are dealt with. I will post the reply here when I receive it.

As for a certificate showing that you passed the noise certification. I would think after a year or so it would not be valid. Mainly because, there is no way to know how the boat has or hasn't been modified in that time. I am not saying that it isn't worth keeping on the vessel, because, an officer may look at it and decided that maybe it isn't as loud as he initially thought. But just like we have cars checked yearly for safety... Things can and do change.
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Old 09-15-2014, 01:09 PM   #80
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Perhaps start a new thread? I thought this was was about lighting.
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