Public dock protocol

[Ken B]

We had a great day on the lake yesterday but I do have one question. What's the protcol for docking at the public docks. I had though it was first in line gets the first open space. Yesterday, some knucklehead at the Alton Bay docks cut "in line" of 3 people who had been waiting for a dock space. I watched this all happen sitting from the bench and the worst part is that he almost caused an accident while doing it.

Ken

[robmac]

your right as courtesy most will work on first come first to dock but not everyone is courteus

[camp guy]

In reality, I don't think there is a formalized protocol, however, common sense says first come first served; but, in boating, there are other factors, most obvious, size. Clearly, a boat has to be the right size for an open space, but this should also include not putting a jet ski in the vacated space of a 38 footer. A healthy dose of common sense must prevail. Sometimes the circumstances occur wherein a space will become available, and a boat appropriate for that space will not take it, usually due to the operator's hesitancy to get into a tight space. Under these circumstances, the "next" boat in line should step up and use that space. Also, waiting boats need to be aware of other waiting boat's needs, particularly regarding the location of open spaces. In Wolfeboro, for instance, cruisers like to dock at the outboard ends of the docks, so, when one of these spaces opens up it is courteous to let a cruiser have it. Also, sailboats usually like to dock on the outboard ends because they don't back up very well when trying to leave.

So, in amongst all this rambling, the protocol is first come first serve, the application of common sense , and courteousness to all.

Have a great 4th of July, and boat safely, and dock courteously.

[jrc]

It is courtesy and common sense to be first come first served, but it is not a law. I got skunked yesterday at the Weirs. After waiting for 10 minutes, a pontoon boat zipped into my spot before I could make my approach.

I've ask the MP informally about this in the past, they said they won't get involved unless people start physically fighting and then they usually just call the town PD.

[Misty Blue]

Ken:

Good subject!


Over the years a sort of protocol has developed. It is not written in to the law books and while Skip has no reference, I am sure that he and the others on the forum adhere to it because it is written in the book of common courtesy.

As I was taught as a boy this is how it generally goes:

Public docking is, as a rule, first come first served. While it is not considered "kosher" to speed up to get in a better spot in the queue, no lines have yet been crossed.

Now while this is not part of the unwritten rule it is considered polite to smile and wave to the others in the queue. It kind of lets them know that you are there, respect their place in line and it is just darn friendly.

When a space opens up the next boat in the queue normally takes it. But there are exceptions...

Size matters! If you are in a 28 foot Carver (gosh I love 'em) and a 20 foot spot opens up it is only logical that the next boat in line take the spot if she can fit.

Conversely, if you and your new found friends in the queue notice two 17 footers docked fore and aft leaving at the same time it is considered a very "Winni" thing to give up the chance and let the Carver dock. It may be her only opportunity till dark and the owner may even buy you a cold one at Garwoods to say thanks!

So Ken, there are the rules. They are not chiseled in stone. They are written in blue skies and crystal waters. If somebody cuts you off, just wave and tell them to have a nice day (they hate that) and pity them because they just don't get it.

Misty Blue.

[Rayhunt]

I see this as a game of musical chairs ..You circle around until a spot opens up.If someone who was there before me is way down the other end of the docks I win. If someone hits the gas and blatently cuts me off then Ive got a beef and will damn sure use my first amendment rights. Some people are just rude and the younger generations seem to be getting ruder. It seems the more people there are the more tolerant we "HAVE TO BE" of one another . However that does not seem to be the case.

[Mink Islander]

Don't be one of the "Jerks in Boats" that we see too often anymore. It can be difficult to see boats leaving at larger docks like Wolfboro. To take your "musical chairs" approach is rude to say the least. Why not signal to the next in line to make sure he/she sees the spot opening up? Wouldn't that be the polite/honorable thing to do? If you have had problems with other boats cutting you off, just remember how it feels and not repeat the behavior to someone else. Perhaps it was someone following your "Musical Chairs" philosophy, no? We can't cure all the JIBs out there, but we can certainly avoid becoming like them....

[NightWing]

I am going to offer another side of the public dock courtesy formula.

It is very annoying to be waiting in line for a spot and to see a boater sitting in his boat with his feet kicked up and reading the paper. Or, see a family of sun lovers laying face down on the sun pad getting a tan, completely oblivious to the fiberglass sharks circling the docks. I can't forget those people cooking out on the gunwale mounted grill, or eating carry out while the waiting line gets longer. I even had one of the paper readers look up and point to the 2 hr limit parking sign next to his boat, as if to say he had a right to use it all. In truth, I suppose he did have some kind of right.

Personally, I always gave up my spot as soon as our shore business was completed. If we had carry out food, it was enjoyed back out on the water. Papers and books were read while on the hook in some quiet cove. As far as tanning goes, I kept the bimini top up because I don't need the extra sun.

All in all, the courtesy issue goes both ways. Common sense and a willingness to share public facilities should govern our docking style.

[jrc]

Rayhunt's musical chairs, is how I got skunked. On windy days, it's hard to just sit in one spot, so I circle. I was down one end of the circle, a boat left a the other end, I saw it, but by the time I turned another boat zipped in. I used to get mad, I don't bother anymore.

Nightwing has a point, but a lot of times, my wife will take our guests to see the sights onshore and I'll lounge around the boat waiting. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The Meredith parking enforcement officer was giving out tickets to boats at the public dock last weekend. She was walking up and down the docks writing down registrations and I saw her place a few bright neon tickets in boats.

Finally on courtesy, what's the rule on blocking boats in. At the Weirs I've been blocked and I have blocked. At Wolfeboro, I narrowly escaped being blocked.

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by Mink Islander

Don't be one of the "Jerks in Boats" that we see too often anymore. It can be difficult to see boats leaving at larger docks like Wolfboro. To take your "musical chairs" approach is rude to say the least. Why not signal to the next in line to make sure he/she sees the spot opening up? Wouldn't that be the polite/honorable thing to do? If you have had problems with other boats cutting you off, just remember how it feels and not repeat the behavior to someone else. Perhaps it was someone following your "Musical Chairs" philosophy, no? We can't cure all the JIBs out there, but we can certainly avoid becoming like them....

If you cant hold in one place and wait for a spot and cruise 6-700 yards away to check around its your loss.. Im not going to wave my arms and shout trying to get your attention because you cant wait patiently like everyone else.. Im not saying scoot in front of anyone but if you no where near then thats your mistake.. Please dont be a JFM

[Mink Islander]

At Shep Brown's this past weekend we saw the enforcement person come by and ticket (and in many cases re-ticket) boats that had been docked there for more than 3 hours. In some cases, several days including at least one work boat from a local island maintenance company. At least one didn't even have a current year sticker on it.... She told us that she makes the rounds to all of the Meredith public docks several times a day.

I was doing a trash run on Monday at Glendale and saw a group of teenagers in what looked like a rented Baja who were still trying to understand why they got a ticket for parking at the clearly marked Island Resident only docks.

Glad to see stepped up enforcement. Now if they would just make at least one dock at Center Harbor have only a 1 hr. limit so when you want to go to the hardware store you don't have to wait 30 minutes to get parking....

[JG1222]

"FIRST COME HAS THE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL" - if you're next in line and the spot that opens up is too small, you offer it to the next guy.

Another thing to keep in mind is that "Karma is Cool" - there have been more than a few occasions where if I'm not in a hurry and I notice someone who could use it, I'll let them go ahead of me. By the time you get a spot of your own, more often than not the person you gave the space to will make a point to thank you for it when he/she sees you on shore. This has led to several good conversations for me. It makes you feel good and you might just make a friend (or get a tour of that 38' Sea Ray you let go ahead of you).

On a different note, common sense and courtesy says that if a 40' Carver just pulled away and you are next in line, PLEASE don't tie up your 17' Bayliner dead-center in the space the Carver just vacated. Pick a side so someone else can tie up too (I've seen this happen too many times to count).

One final point - DON'T BE AFRAID TO STICK UP FOR THE OTHER GUY TOO - peer pressure is a powerful force. It's one thing to yell at a the guy who's cutting you, but feel free to bring it to the attention that he's just cut off someone else.

[Bear Islander]

I believe it is also OK to take a space that a waiting boat either can't see or is afraid to use.

The Wolfeboro town docks are very long. Often there are spaces near shore that waiting boats either can't see or are reluctant to try for. I have always been able to find an open space even when many boats are waiting.

Then I look around and find another open spot and try and wave the waiting boats in. Usually they decline the invitation.

My pet peeve is people that tie up to the second post in instead of the one on the end. They probably take two spaces when they park their car as well.

[Rolie]

What is your opinion about untieing and moving a boat to make room for yours? Personally, I would never touch a line to anybody else's boat unless it was obvious that it was becoming loose and a possible hazard.
I have seen boaters move other's boats and wonder about the liability of doing so if the moved boat was either damaged or caused damage because it wasn't properly secured.

[Phantom]

Rolie -- My answer to your question is that in my opinion that is an ABSOLUTE boating NO-NO. I would be furious if someone touched my lines !!

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by Rolie

What is your opinion about untieing and moving a boat to make room for yours? Personally, I would never touch a line to anybody else's boat unless it was obvious that it was becoming loose and a possible hazard.
I have seen boaters move other's boats and wonder about the liability of doing so if the moved boat was either damaged or caused damage because it wasn't properly secured.

I would avoid touching anyone elses boat or lines at all costs.. However there are certain situations where it is unavoidable.. Ive been blocked in by larger boats at the Weirs docks a couple times and had enough manpower on board to move it so we could leave ..And it got tied up better than it was

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rayhunt

I would avoid touching anyone elses boat or lines at all costs.. However there are certain situations where it is unavoidable.. Ive been blocked in by larger boats at the Weirs docks a couple times and had enough manpower on board to move it so we could leave ..And it got tied up better than it was

I have never had to move another boat, but if it were blocking me for an extended period and the repsonsible party was no where to be found, it would get moved and re-tied securely. If it was just an inconvenience due to restricted space (but not completely blocking me) I'd leave it alone.

I would hope that those with beamy boats would not dock adjacent to another beamy boat and block the escape path for other boats. Happilly,I have never seen it happen.

The most common mistakes I see are boats taking up more than a reasonable amount of linear dock space and boats with stern lines too loose and bow lines too tight such that the stern juts out into the channel at an angle. I usaully tie the stern from the cleat opposite the dock side to prevent this yet still allow enough slack to rock and roll without putting major shock loads on the cleats and lines. The bow spring line then controls the fore and aft movement.

[joann721]

This past Saturday afternoon after our first beautiful day on the lake for the summer we returned to Center Harbor to trailer the boat. We have a 19 ft crownline bowrider. We noticed that we were probably 4th or 5th in line for a slip. My husband refuses to pull up to the 10 minute dock because he has to tie up go get the jeep / trailer and wait in line to get the boat out so we "wait" for a real slip- because he is courteous. So we waited... probably 15 - 20 minutes. When our turn finally came...this guy in a small wooden motor boat came out of no where and pulled right in front of us and into the slip... my husband yelled "HEY" what are you crazy... the guy said "NO I AM A RESIDENT- I PAY TAXES... DONT LIKE IT TOUGH".. . I thought my husbands head was going to explode.. not just the words but the way the way the guy said it... Thankfully... when we finally got a slip about 10 minutes later the guy was no where to be seen...

ps- Center Harbor docks could use some patroling....people pull up to the 10 minute dock and just sit there- the people who take the money- and are there working- do nothing while people walk across the street to the grocery / liquor store... and people going in and out of the launch have to go around them... in center harbor on weekends it is a real mess...

thanks for letting me vent... "it was still an awesome day" ....

[JG1222]

Joann's last post made me think of another piece of etiquette that's often overlooked - who goes first to the public ramp. You'd think people would use common sense, but there are still those out there that think that if you put your boat in line to use the ramp.

This happened to us last weekend - you'll see a boat crowding the ramp waiting for their trailer to arrive, when ours trailer is being backed down the ramp. We now have to juggle and maneuver around a guy who's trailer is still four of five in line to even get to the ramp.

Public Ramp Protocol is that you go in the order that your car and trailer arrive at the ramp - not the boat. Unless your car is backing down the ramp, you shouldn't be in the immediate area.

Likewise, if you are alone trying to get your boat out - you tie up at a dock, go get your car/trailer, wait in line, and when you back your trailer down the ramp you jog over, get your boat and drive it on the trailer. I can't tell you how many people I've seen get disgusted at this person for "cutting" when it's actually his turn.

[Misty Blue]

Right you are JG.

People don't seem to use common courtesy on the ramps any more than on the docks.

Last year I was towing a boat into the Lee's Mills ramp. This was quite obvious for various reasons.

Just as I was approaching the tini-tiny dock some happy boater pulled down the ramp and just sat there. Half in and half out. Since backing up was not an option I had to pull a quick, somewhat dangerous, maneuver to turn away from the ramp and began to do a 15 minute dosi-doe around the pond.

As I did so I noticed what the hold up was. He had six kids lined up like little duckies in front of the porta-poti and refused to launch until each and every one or them had "checked their tanks"! He wouldn't even launch and go to the public docks!? 'Just kind of waved with a goofy smile.

While I approve of his environmental zeal, a little common sence would have helped.

Misty Blue

[Bear Islander]

I have moved many boats when they were blocking or parked stupid.

Last year I politely asked a man to move because the Mailboat was coming. He said there was no sign and he was here first! I untied his ropes, dropped them in his boat, gave a push and said "have a nice day".

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I have moved many boats when they were blocking or parked stupid.

Last year I politely asked a man to move because the Mailboat was coming. He said there was no sign and he was here first! I untied his ropes, dropped them in his boat, gave a push and said "have a nice day".

I personally aplaud your action but it may have been illegal.

There was a recent post about unauthorised docking and it was pointed out there is a USCG reg against untieing a boat's lines without the operator's permission. The likely exceptions are law enforcement officers or dock masters at a governement facility. If you are the Bear Island Post Master then I think you could get away with it.

I'm sure it is legal to move a boat to open up dockage but any one that does this may be liable for any damages during movement or if the boat goes adrift later.

Good luck!

[Bear Islander]

You may be talking about this.

Section 270:26-a
270:26-a Interference with a Vessel. – No person shall, without the consent of the owner of the vessel, wilfully and maliciously cut away or let loose any vessel which is fastened to any mooring place or lying at anchor. Whoever violates the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a violation.

Moving a boat to another post is not letting it loose.

And when it comes to the Mailboat incident, I am still not guilty. My actions were willful but not malicious, I was kindly helping him correct his error.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I untied his ropes, dropped them in his boat, gave a push and said "have a nice day".

I have always agreed with Bear Islanders common sense approach to the boating issues around the lake but this action of untying someone’s boat is absurd. The guy was jerk but you or anyone else had no right to do such a thing. Call MP and let them deal with it. The action was so absurd I struggle to believe it actually happened. Seems there would be a whole lot more to the story once the boat was secured again.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Rayhunt

Im not going to wave my arms and shout trying to get your attention

A toot on the horn and a wave has always worked for me. Why would I take another boaters turn just because they were a few yards away?

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

You may be talking about this.

Section 270:26-a
270:26-a Interference with a Vessel. ... wilfully and maliciously ...

... My actions were willful but not malicious, I was kindly helping him correct his error.

lol. Thank goodnes for a well placed "and."

"Your honor, he maliciously wished me a good day. I was so traumatised I almost dropped my beer."

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by JDeere

I have always agreed with Bear Islanders common sense approach to the boating issues around the lake but this action of untying someone’s boat is absurd. The guy was jerk but you or anyone else had no right to do such a thing. Call MP and let them deal with it. The action was so absurd I struggle to believe it actually happened. Seems there would be a whole lot more to the story once the boat was secured again.

In most instances I would have called the marine patrol. However with the Mailboat was approaching and a line of children were waiting at the boarding stairs, each with $1.50 in hand for ice cream, it was time for direct action.

And perhaps I was not clear, the guy was in the boat sitting at the controls, I didn't set a boat adrift.

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by JDeere

A toot on the horn and a wave has always worked for me. Why would I take another boaters turn just because they were a few yards away?

Nice try ..but what I said was if someone was down the other end of the docks.. Have you been to the weirs you could be 4-500 yards away ..I sit still and eventually something opens up, but im not going to play traffic cop if people want to try and circle around and cause havoc and confusion in front of the docks..I dont JUMP in front of anyone !

[NightWing]

Wow..........that could have gone south in an instant. The fact that he previously refused to move because there was no sign and he was there first could have been a clue that he wasn't listening to reason. I can't imagine how he would have just sat there while you untied his lines and pushed him off.

He could have been a real hothead....................worse than that, a real hothead with a weapon.

[Mashugana]

Originally Posted by NightWing

It is very annoying to be waiting in line for a spot and to see a boater sitting in his boat with his feet kicked up and reading the paper. Or, see a family of sun lovers laying face down on the sun pad getting a tan, completely oblivious to the fiberglass sharks circling the docks. I can't forget those people cooking out on the gunwale mounted grill, or eating carry out while the waiting line gets longer. I even had one of the paper readers look up and point to the 2 hr limit parking sign next to his boat, as if to say he had a right to use it all. In truth, I suppose he did have some kind of right.
...
All in all, the courtesy issue goes both ways. Common sense and a willingness to share public facilities should govern our docking style.

I see your point and have done my fair share of circling for a space but... The public docks are for all the public unless posted otherwise. The rules and the maximum time limits are posted. It is not like the use it and move on etiquette for a porta-john (do your business and move on - no reading, eating or relaxing). You may not know what everyone in a boating party is doing. While the family is sunning at the dock mom could be shopping on shore. I ask boaters if they are planning to leave soon and get an idea from them as to when that space will be open.

Public docks can be used like a rest area on the highway. Have your coffee, relax, stretch out or whatever. There are all kinds of reasons for people to sit and read the newspaper on board while at a public dock while you wait your turn. Some reasons are better than others.

Maybe someone waited an hour for that dock space and needs to rest! I encourage my family to go off while I stay on board at the dock for an hour or more. I get a break. And if I'm not too tired and there is not a decent turnover of boats, I might leave the dock and wait to pick up the family.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Rayhunt

Have you been to the weirs you could be 4-500 yards away

I have been to all of the public docks and have always been able to get the attention of the boater who was there first. I never saw it as a game of musical chairs.

Imagine if I was 4 yards away how difficult if not impossible to get my attention??!!

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by JDeere

I have been to all of the public docks and have always been able to get the attention of the boater who was there first. I never saw it as a game of musical chairs.

Imagine if I was 4 yards away how difficult if not impossible to get my attention??!!

Please stop trying to spin my analogy. If you were a few yards away or even 50 and were there first obviously id call the spot to your attention if it were elsewhere.. I sit in one place and wait .. If you are milling about and nowhere near the next open space thats your bad.. Milling about or going back and forth always causes confusion and mishaps. Just wait patiently and something will become available ..

[jrc]

Musical chairs logic is similar to how it works, for autos, in a crowded shopping center lot. If first come first served was obvious and common sense, there wouldn't be paper numbers at the deli counter.

I'm trying very hard not to let people get me mad, I just don't like the stress anymore. A shouting match will ruin my whole afternoon. There just aren't enough good afternoons to waste. Now, my wife doesn't seem to have the same attitude, so if you steal my spot, be ready for an earful.

[William_Philipp]

Maybe the boats need blinkers like we use at shopping centers haha. Just an idea. All of these docking stories get me very discouraged to leavevery far from my own dock in Moultonboro, it doesnt seem very practical for me to go all the way down to weirs and then spend more time trying to dock.

[Lakewinniboater]

I have to chime in on this one!! I was in Wolfeboro and witness one of the rudest boaters in years.

When coming into the town docks, most boaters slow down to just above headway speed, but still maintain a pecking order so to speak.

This man in a very small BAJA bow rider barrelled in in front of and weaving in between numerous boats to try to get ahead of them.

Then instead of maintaining a decent position he was going back and forth and trying to jocky in ahead of someone. Then almost hit two boats and wasnt paying attention. I yelled "hey" and he looked at my boat and the two others like.... "yeah, whats your problem".

Now at this point there is about 10 boats in line..... I was about 5th... no big deal. I was one behind him... even though he was a jerk and blew by us... I was still polite. Until, he tried to steal two spots from the #1 and 2 boats in line.

I finally had to speak up and said....."excuse me... there is an unwritten rule about being polite at town docks. you have 4 boats in front of you.... wait your turn."

He said "oh, sorry....I thought I was next". I simply gave him a dirty look and said "well, clearly those boats have been here longer than we have."

A slip opened up and the next guy in line was on the other side and the rude guy STILL tried to jocky in.... so I casually got in front of him and signaled to the gentleman in the other boat and shot the rude man a look.

The worst part is that this guy definitely knew better and was about 55-60 years old..... apparently, his teachings when he was young have been forgotten.

It really did erck me though... not that I like to be the town dock enforcer... but MAN!!!!

[jrc]

William_Phillip, I'll address two of your concerns at once. If you get a jet boat docking at the Weirs will hardly ever be a problem. The entire back side of the Weirs public dock is shallow and very lightly used. A jet boat can zip right back there and find a spot pretty much any time.

Don't take the dock stories too seriously. I've never had to wait more than 10-15 minutes with a bowrider or runabout. The worst time is from noon to 3PM on weekend days. Any other time you usually don't have much wait. A big crusier or a special event will be different.

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by jrc

William_Phillip, I'll address two of your concerns at once. If you get a jet boat docking at the Weirs will hardly ever be a problem. The entire back side of the Weirs public dock is shallow and very lightly used. A jet boat can zip right back there and find a spot pretty much any time.

Don't take the dock stories too seriously. I've never had to wait more than 10-15 minutes with a bowrider or runabout. The worst time is from noon to 3PM on weekend days. Any other time you usually don't have much wait. A big crusier or a special event will be different.

Is that back section open again .. It was off limits or something the past few years.. Used to always park back there under the foot bridge. Best spot bar none

[Aquadeziac]

Usually the back section is just blocked off during Biker Festivites. I always go back there with my jetski. They started two or three years ago of bringing the swim line over to the end of the dock during bike week. In fact I believe it was open this last weekend.

[jrc]

I was there this weekend, the back section was definitely open. As far as I've seen, it's open except bike week.

[Neanderthal Thunder]

Originally Posted by jrc

It is courtesy and common sense to be first come first served, but it is not a law. I got skunked yesterday at the Weirs. After waiting for 10 minutes, a pontoon boat zipped into my spot before I could make my approach.

"Zip" counts. After waiting for an hour, we got skunked trying to dock our 24' sailboat. Six horsepower is no match for boats with "zip". Next time, we'll anchor off the docks and bring a dinghy for our guests to get into town with.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Neanderthal Thunder

...Next time, we'll anchor off the docks and bring a dinghy for our guests to get into town with.

I've often wondered why people with "big" boats, didn't anchor and use a dinghy. Very few people do on the lake, very few people have dinghys. I wonder how the MP would react to a bunch of large boats anchored in front of the the town docks.

I'm not saying you should have to do this, there should be plenty of spots for a 24' boat and people should respect your place in line. Sailboats with a deep keel and large power crusiers have limited docking opportunities, a dinghy gives them a few more choices.

If the crew and guests aren't crazy about the dinghy, there is a usually a spot to drop them off, then anchor the boat and dinghy in.

[Weekend Pundit]

My biggest gripe about rude people at public docks are the clueless folks that will tie their boats up in such a way that it takes up two slips.

I saw a fellow almost come to blows when a police officer and another party attempted to move his boat at the Weirs docks during Bike Week.

There must have been close to twenty boats waiting to pull in that day. Two boats that had been docked in tandem left at the same time. This fellow pulls in and ties up, taking up two slips even though his boat wasn't any bigger than the boats that had vacated the docks. When asked to either pull forward or back in order to free up another slip, his response was "Screw you! I'm here and I'm gonna stay here!" The aforementioned police officer saw this exchange and asked the boater to move. The officer got a somewhat less profane version of the first response. The officer asked again and got the same response. The fellow proceded to walk away when the officer asked one of the bystanders to help him move the boat. The owner came running back and almost made the mistake of grabbing the police officer. I think that's when he realized that he wasn't going to win this argument......or the officer explained the facts of prison life to him.

In any case, the rude jerk ended up moving his boat in order to make room for another boat. Still, he shouldn't have needed to be told what he did was inconsiderate of others.

[jrc]

The Wiers docks are troublesome. A long time ago there used to be a sign that said something like 8' beam or less. My guess is that there is only about 25-27' between the piers. Since most boats today are wider than 8', if you go inside, you're getting blocked. Most of the time what I see is only the outer most spots are used.

[secondcurve]

JRC:

I've often wondered how those docks got put up like that. My assumption is that they are ancient and it goes back years and years to a time when there were many more smaller boats on the lake. Does anyone know if it would be possible to reconfigure those docks. Big bucks I assume.

[jrc]

Being a bored engineer and a geek, (is that redundant). I thought of two cheap ways to increase the non-blocking docking capacity at the Weirs.

The first way is free. In each U-shaped area, make one side no docking. Right now each U gets two boats before any blocking occurs. If you close one side, the other side will support three or more boats and they can use the closed side to get in and out. Right now the last U with the drop-off dock on one side works this way. You could even squeeze one more boat on inner most spot of the closed side or the bottom of the U. And perhaps you could allow jetskis on the closed side.

The second way requires de-construction. Simply remove every other finger. Today each group of two U's supports four boats before blocking. If you remove the center finger pier, the two U's become one larger U. The larger U can support three boats on each side and one or two along the back. It would be like the Meredith docks.

[topwater]

JRC, I'm not bashing anyone so please don't take this to heart, but here we go again! I agree it is a good idea you have but WHY put it on here? NO-ONE on here will do anything with the idea, nothing, nada,zero!! Step up to the plate and call the Chamber of Commerce and see who to talk to, step up to the plate and DO something with your idea, Its really a good one!! If your looking for a atta boy, here you go. If more people were proactive with thier thoughts instead of mere written words, alot more might get done!

[secondcurve]

Topwater:

You should take your own advice. JRC was simply responding to a direct question. I was over their yesterday and as usual, there was a tremendous amount of wasted space. I have often thought about removing every other finger. However, I haven't thought about setting up the entire docking sytem as the bay one on the far left is configured. JRC, thanks for a creative suggestion.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by topwater

JRC, I'm not bashing anyone so please don't take this to heart, but here we go again! I agree it is a good idea you have but WHY put it on here? NO-ONE on here will do anything with the idea, nothing, nada,zero!! Step up to the plate and call the Chamber of Commerce and see who to talk to, step up to the plate and DO something with your idea, Its really a good one!! If your looking for a atta boy, here you go. If more people were proactive with thier thoughts instead of mere written words, alot more might get done!

No offence taken. I'm guilty, it's too easy to just write a few words on this site. Right now I'm too lazy to do anything more, I don't go there enough and it's just not that important to me.

[JG1222]

Originally Posted by topwater

I agree it is a good idea you have but WHY put it on here? NO-ONE on here will do anything with the idea, nothing, nada,zero!! Step up to the plate and call the Chamber of Commerce and see who to talk to, step up to the plate and DO something with your idea, Its really a good one!! If your looking for a atta boy, here you go. If more people were proactive with thier thoughts instead of mere written words, alot more might get done!

Topwater - Prefacing your comments with "I'm not bashing anyone so please don't take this to heart" doesn't automatically give you immunity for your comments. I for one am open and eager to hear ideas like JRC's, and have put forth similar comments of my own - it's why we call it a "forum" - a place to exchange ideas.

If you take your own advice, you might be more proactive it taking JRC's idea and doing something with it yourself. Instead, you took as much effort to type a response which belittled his contribution, and accomplished the same thing - nothing toward solving the original problem (which I believe was your complaint in the first place).

[aopel]

[QUOTE=Bear Islander]I have moved many boats when they were blocking or parked stupid.

Thanks Bear Islander for sharing your approach. I too do not hesitate to move a boat up or down a post or two if this will create a space. I have been on the lake all my life and consider this a common courtesy and would not mind if someone did the same to my boat.

That said, I did this in Wolfboro this weekend and one onlooker was appalled and tried to tell me that this was something he had never seen and was unacceptable.

I feel that if a boat is taking up two or more spaces, because it was poorly docked to begin with or because other boats have moved, then fair use says careful repositioning is well within the unwritten code of boating courtesy.

I tried to convey this to the driver of an oversized Formula but his attachment to his possession drove him to tell me I better never touch HIS boat.

I see the point about liability mentioned earlier but I am confident I can tie a boating knot. The world may be turning to lawyers to solve all problems but I still believe in basic trust and watching out for each others boats. I see no point in sitting in a cue while docking sites sit available because no one has the common sense to move a boat. Call me old school but I used to watch my father use the Irwins hoists at the Weirs to drain the water out of our old Chris Craft during off hours. The Irwins didn't mind because they trusted us.

I called MP on the moving issue and they said each town sets their own public dock use regulations. If I find laws addressing this issue, I'll post them. Until then, I'll be moving boats to make the best use of the docks!

[jrc]

I'm still on the fence regarding the whole moving the boats issue.

But how would you feel if they moved your car to make room to park? I know it can be done. I parked in one of those sprawling underground Boston garages once and when I returned my car was completely blocked in. The garage workers had four caster-like devices. They placed one under each wheel of the blocking car and moved it out of my way. After I left they pushed the car into my space. What do you think this guy felt when he returned.

[Lakegeezer]

I barely trust my wife to tie up my boat. Why would I trust a stranger. The days of assuming a boat captain knows what they are doing are long gone. Captain Boneheads are everywhere. I don't think its common protocol anymore to move someone elses boat. While it is unlikely that you would get arrested for moving a boat, you might be in trouble (legal or physical) for participating in a fight that the boat owner picks with you.

[Woodsy]

[QUOTE=aopel]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I have moved many boats when they were blocking or parked stupid.

Thanks Bear Islander for sharing your approach. I too do not hesitate to move a boat up or down a post or two if this will create a space. I have been on the lake all my life and consider this a common courtesy and would not mind if someone did the same to my boat.

That said, I did this in Wolfboro this weekend and one onlooker was appalled and tried to tell me that this was something he had never seen and was unacceptable.

I feel that if a boat is taking up two or more spaces, because it was poorly docked to begin with or because other boats have moved, then fair use says careful repositioning is well within the unwritten code of boating courtesy.

I tried to convey this to the driver of an oversized Formula but his attachment to his possession drove him to tell me I better never touch HIS boat.

I see the point about liability mentioned earlier but I am confident I can tie a boating knot. The world may be turning to lawyers to solve all problems but I still believe in basic trust and watching out for each others boats. I see no point in sitting in a cue while docking sites sit available because no one has the common sense to move a boat. Call me old school but I used to watch my father use the Irwins hoists at the Weirs to drain the water out of our old Chris Craft during off hours. The Irwins didn't mind because they trusted us.

I called MP on the moving issue and they said each town sets their own public dock use regulations. If I find laws addressing this issue, I'll post them. Until then, I'll be moving boats to make the best use of the docks!

3 years ago I was the victim of some dumbass moving my 22' Donzi at the Weirs town docks without my permission to the tune of $1500 damage. Too bad he didnt bother to re-tie my boat properly. I had it tied a specific way to avoid the boat sliding under the dock and causing the exact type of damage that happened. I got nice big gouge that I had to pay for. I waited patiently until the suspected boat owner showed up then contacted the LPD. Of course Capt. Bonehead completely denied all knowledge of moving my boat to the LPD!

If I catch someone moving my boat without my permission there will be some irate words at the very minumum! Nobody has a right to touch anyone elses personal property without the rightful owners permission!

Woodsy

[Skip]

When you untie anothers motorized vessel to move it to another place, you have effectively excercised control over that vessel during the process. One hopes you have obtained the owner's permission to do so or perhaps you should become familiar with the following statute:


TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE
CHAPTER 634
DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY
Section 634:3
634:3 Unauthorized Use of Propelled Vehicle or Animal. –
I. A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if, knowing that he does not have the consent of the owner, he takes, operates, exercises control over, or otherwise uses a propelled vehicle or animal. A person who engages in any such conduct without the consent of the owner is presumed to know that he does not have such consent.
II. As used in this section, "propelled vehicle" has the same meaning as in RSA 637:9, III.
Source. 1971, 518:1, eff. Nov. 1, 1973.

637:9, III....

III. As used in this section, "propelled vehicle" means any automobile, airplane, motorcycle, motorboat or any other motor-propelled vehicle or vessel, or any boat or vessel propelled by sail, oar or paddle.


My gosh folks, lighten up! The world doesn't come to an end if someone has hogged a dock space somewhere. The civil liability you immediately assume when handling someone else’s property without their permission, coupled with the possible criminal liabilities should things go awry, just aren't worth it! If the violation is so grievous it needs immediate attention, notify the local officials in control of the applicable docks to take action. Otherwise just shake your head in disbelief and chalk another story up to Capt'n Bonehead.

I take solace in knowing that after having perused this sight for many years, there are one or two posters here that love to embellish a tale to get a rise out of some of us. But must of us are aware of the incidents where someone has moved ours (or someone else’s) boat. Just be aware of the potential civil and criminal liabilities before you mistakenly believe that it is accepted practice to do so!

Sorry for the editorializing, just don't want an innocent person here making a mistake that could have grave circumstances.....

Skip

[WakeUp]

There is NO formal "protocol!!" We're all at the risk of people engaging in 'common sense!' However...common sense is the least common attribute of humans!! (think hard...you'll understand!!)

[nightrider]

Aopel, I agree with Woodsy. Just because you can tie a boat knot doesn't mean you know how to position a boat correctly on the dock posts, with appropriate tension on the lines, such that damage won't occur. Especially someone else's boat. If the stern slips by a post and starts rubbing a concrete dock or worse yet slips under the dock, as in Woody case, severe damage can occur. Better not to touch what is not yours to touch.

[Gavia immer]

Paint schemes can cost as much as an entire boat. Somebody should have relocated Woody's boat when it was getting scratched, and fixing apparent docking errors should not be illegal.

Who would think twice about moving a canoe? Who would NOT think twice about moving a monster boat? My dad used to move boats all the time, but few boats in his day had big mortgages on them. Even while just walking town docks, he would readjust a boat's ropes if the boat became a hazard or appeared about to become one.

[aopel]

Thanks all for your input on moving boats.

I anticipated a series of legalistic respones and it's sad to see that's what the world has come to. If I followed this thinking, I would not have helped many people over the years - from towing boats in distress to retying boats that were drifting away from docks.

As for Wake Up's comment about common sense, I have more faith in our ability to help one another than to think everyone out there is somehow less capable than I.

That said, I am slowly accepting the changed lake - with the worship of homes and boats over any sense of community. A new, material "me" ethic that puts things above people.

I'll limit my visits to public docks to weekdays to try to avoid any need to "touch" anothers boat.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by aopel

Thanks all for your input on moving boats.

I anticipated a series of legalistic respones and it's sad to see that's what the world has come to. If I followed this thinking, I would not have helped many people over the years - from towing boats in distress to retying boats that were drifting away from docks.

As for Wake Up's comment about common sense, I have more faith in our ability to help one another than to think everyone out there is somehow less capable than I.

That said, I am slowly accepting the changed lake - with the worship of homes and boats over any sense of community. A new, material "me" ethic that puts things above people.

I'll limit my visits to public docks to weekdays to try to avoid any need to "touch" anothers boat.

I think retying someomes boat or towing them is very different from moving a secured boat and potentially damaging it as was the case in Woodsy's post.I know I would be furious if I came back to find my boat moved and damaged because of that.Two totally different situations.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by aopel

.........................If I followed this thinking, I would not have helped many people over the years - from towing boats in distress to retying boats that were drifting away from docks......................

If I may add a comment; towing a boat in distress or retying a boat drifting away are not the same as moving a boat to allow you a parking spot.

The two scenarios you introduced are an act of protecting life and limb or protecting property. There is no protectional motive in moving a boat to increase space for you.

Upon docking, the owner assumes responsibility for any harm that may come to his boat, other property, or another boat as a result of his placement. I would imagine that responsibility would shift to the person who moved his boat, and that could open up a very large container of crawling things...........

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Skip

When you untie anothers motorized vessel to move it to another place, you have effectively excercised control over that vessel during the process. One hopes you have obtained the owner's permission to do so or perhaps you should become familiar with the following statute:


TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE
CHAPTER 634
DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY
Section 634:3
634:3 Unauthorized Use of Propelled Vehicle or Animal. –
I. A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if, knowing that he does not have the consent of the owner, he takes, operates, exercises control over, or otherwise uses a propelled vehicle or animal. A person who engages in any such conduct without the consent of the owner is presumed to know that he does not have such consent.
II. As used in this section, "propelled vehicle" has the same meaning as in RSA 637:9, III.
Source. 1971, 518:1, eff. Nov. 1, 1973.

637:9, III....

III. As used in this section, "propelled vehicle" means any automobile, airplane, motorcycle, motorboat or any other motor-propelled vehicle or vessel, or any boat or vessel propelled by sail, oar or paddle.


My gosh folks, lighten up! The world doesn't come to an end if someone has hogged a dock space somewhere. The civil liability you immediately assume when handling someone else’s property without their permission, coupled with the possible criminal liabilities should things go awry, just aren't worth it! If the violation is so grievous it needs immediate attention, notify the local officials in control of the applicable docks to take action. Otherwise just shake your head in disbelief and chalk another story up to Capt'n Bonehead.

I take solace in knowing that after having perused this sight for many years, there are one or two posters here that love to embellish a tale to get a rise out of some of us. But must of us are aware of the incidents where someone has moved ours (or someone else’s) boat. Just be aware of the potential civil and criminal liabilities before you mistakenly believe that it is accepted practice to do so!

Sorry for the editorializing, just don't want an innocent person here making a mistake that could have grave circumstances.....

Skip

Skip

You are really stretching one here! Untying and retying a boat is not "exercising control over" in the context of a "DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY" statute.

Next thing you will be saying we can't roll over a car that's in 2 parking spaces.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Skip

You are really stretching one here! Untying and retying a boat is not "exercising control over" in the context of a "DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY" statute.

Next thing you will be saying we can't roll over a car that's in 2 parking spaces.

Nope, never said that "tying and untying a boat" violates the statute in question.

I clearly warned that once you do, you immediately assume civil liability for the vessel and "should things go awry" (such as in Woody's case) criminal liabilites were (and are) possible. By the way, your analogy about moving a car clearly falls under this same statute.

The statue is pretty clear. You may not like or agree with it, but it is the law in this State. I am sure most of the readers here can comprehend its fairly obvious meaning and intent and understand that the moving of another person's vessel, without the owner's consent, is an unwise thing to do in less than emergency circumstances.

Skip

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Skip
{snip}
Next thing you will be saying we can't roll over a car that's in 2 parking spaces.

Only if you've got a monster truck ! But in the context of this discussion I think we all know that getting into someone's else's car, even if to move it into a proper parking spot, is a no no. We're I to damage that car or someone else's in the process, I would be held liable. Same logic applies to boats even if old tradition allows such movement ... which I think is Skip's point.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

You are really stretching one here! Untying and retying a boat is not "exercising control over" in the context of a "DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY" statute.

Isn't the short answer, "Reposition that boat at your own financial risk"? (Because homeowner's insurance should cover the unlikely consequences.)

But that shiny Corvette parked diagonally across two parking spaces, though...

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

But that shiny Corvette parked diagonally across two parking spaces, though...

Not a Corvette, but isn't there a rumor a certain cantankerous marina owner who moved an improperly parked car with a forklift? I wonder if there were financial or legal ramifications or if the story is even true.

[Airwaves]

I was just surfing this thread since I don't have a lot of interest in it. I don't move boats that aren't mine and if I caught someone on my boat, well, I wouldn't post about it.

I did see something that Skip posted that caught my eye and I have no idea what it means:

TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE
CHAPTER 634
DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY
Section 634:3
634:3 Unauthorized Use of Propelled Vehicle or Animal.

Can someone explain to me what Unauthorized Use of propelled ANIMAL is?

Lots of visions are floating around in my little mind, none of them good.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by jrc

Not a Corvette, but isn't there a rumor a certain cantankerous marina owner who moved an improperly parked car with a forklift? I wonder if there were financial or legal ramifications or if the story is even true.

Yes, I heard that story when I was a slip renter in that noted establishment. Legend has it that it was a high end car......a Mercedes perhaps, and the owner had been told several times not to park there because it created a blockage.

Well, the story went that the car was picked up with the fork truck and placed in one of the racks. It was also said that the owner of the car never blocked anyone again.

As far as credibility goes, I know the man and I believe he has the temperment to do it. I have also watched him pilot a fork truck and I would bet he could build a house of cards with that truck and never knock anything down.

That is one of the stories that makes Winni great.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by jrc

Not a Corvette, but isn't there a rumor a certain cantankerous marina owner who moved an improperly parked car with a forklift? I wonder if there were financial or legal ramifications or if the story is even true.

Yes that forklift story is true, and if in that case it was a Mercedes, it has happened more than once. A friends Chevy SUV was taken for a ride there as well, with some damage occurring. The truck was not parked illegally nor improperly. It was parked exactly where the marina owner told him to park.

[NightWing]

There was some talk here recently about moving boats at docks and someone mentioned a certain marina that was said to move cars when they were parked incorrectly. Wouldn't that marina love to have this:

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...x_1&frame=true

[LIforrelaxin]

Isn't technology grand....I hate parking garages enough as it is let alone a computerized one.........

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by jrc

Not a Corvette, but isn't there a rumor a certain cantankerous marina owner who moved an improperly parked car with a forklift?

Dealing with Capt Boneheads on a regular basis can cause a person to be cantankerous.

He is also a very generous and giving person, especially regarding youths of the area.

There are two sides to every coin - try spending a little time observing the other side.

[ApS]

Moving a car or truck with a forklift requires some skill, but there was this excerpted post from last year:

Originally Posted by chipj29

"...At some point during the day, someone moved their truck and trailer. With a forklift..."

[jrc]

Originally Posted by GWC...

Not a Corvette, but isn't there a rumor a certain cantankerous marina owner who moved an improperly parked car with a forklift?

Originally Posted by jrc

Dealing with Capt Boneheads on a regular basis can cause a person to be cantankerous.

He is also a very generous and giving person, especially regarding youths of the area.

There are two sides to every coin - try spending a little time observing the other side.

I never said who was cantankerous, you're just guessing, but you're probably right. Maybe the shoe fits? He has every right to be whatever he wants, it's his life and his business. I stand by my description of his demeanor. I make no judgements on his value as person.

This thread evolved from moving boats to moving cars, I relayed a humorous anecdote. It was not meant to bash a person, that's why I didn't mention his name.

[kjbathe]

After reading a great deal about the car moving incidents, and being a very happy customer of said establishment, I inquired with the staff one day about what exactly "the deal" was.

In a very matter-of-fact way I was told that, yes, they've moved cars with forklifts and that forklifts are likely to cause damage when used to move automobiles. If you park your Aston Martin and block the active/working loading areas, they have no problem picking it up and moving it so that the facility continues to function for everyone.

That simple and no-nonsense explanation made perfect sense to me... Maybe that's why I enjoy doing business with them.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by kjbathe

After reading a great deal about the car moving incidents, and being a very happy customer of said establishment, I inquired with the staff one day about what exactly "the deal" was.

In a very matter-of-fact way I was told that, yes, they've moved cars with forklifts and that forklifts are likely to cause damage when used to move automobiles. If you park your Aston Martin and block the active/working loading areas, they have no problem picking it up and moving it so that the facility continues to function for everyone.

That simple and no-nonsense explanation made perfect sense to me... Maybe that's why I enjoy doing business with them.

That explanation does make perfect sense. However, when ones vehicle is parked right where said marina owner wanted it, there should no reason for moving it. Especially with a forklift.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Moving a car or truck with a forklift requires some skill, but there was this excerpted post from last year:

And what does this have to do with anything? Perhaps the trailer, which was a small PWC trailer, was unhitched and moved by hand.

[rander7823]

Can someone explain to me what Unauthorized Use of propelled ANIMAL is?

Lots of visions are floating around in my little mind, none of them good.[/QUOTE]

C'mon this is New Hapsha the law proabaly dates back 1642 or something like that when someone's horse got stolen.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by chipj29

And what does this have to do with anything? Perhaps the trailer, which was a small PWC trailer, was unhitched and moved by hand.

The story is getting more interesting, but all I did was search "forklift"...the story from last year appeared...and I was intrigued by a vision of both truck and trailer being moved as a unit. Nowadays, trailers are normally padlocked on the hitch.