Another E-10 article and the winter months

[Airwaves]

This article was in the Nov/Dec 2009 edition of the Boat US Magazine. Some good tips on how to protect your fuel tank over the winter, but it still doesn't address the issue of what to do when a boat owner CAN'T use his/her boat frequently over the summer months!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

This article was in the Nov/Dec 2009 edition of the Boat US Magazine. Some good tips on how to protect your fuel tank over the winter, but it still doesn't address the issue of what to do when a boat owner CAN'T use his/her boat frequently over the summer months!

I have had excellent reuslts with Stabil ethanol stabilizer and a completely full tank. E10 keeps for at least 7 months that way.

[robmac]

I've had great luck with startron and close to empty. No problems so far.

[ishoot308]

Just an fyi to all... I recently received a memo from Jeff Fay at Fays Marina regarding ethanol fuel and stabilizing products currently available on the market. In his memo he made mention to never mix fuel stabilizers!

This is something I never really thought of... I currently use Stabil Marine formula, but if I pull up to a station that has Startron already introduced in their fuel I normally would think nothing of it and fill up.

I guess what this means is we have to find the stations on the lake that use the same stabilizer and only fill up there, or go to stations that do not stabilze and install it yourself with your favorite blend.

Just thought I would pass this on...

Dan

[NoBozo]

I talked to Jeff Fay in late September about this. He said Fays does NOt introduce any stabilizer to their gas at the pump. They sell various brands of stabilizer on the side....you pick the brand of choice and add it to the tank.

I carry a bottle of StarTron on the boat and a "shot glass" to measure it with. NB

[Airwaves]

I wonder if his comments are aimed more at the stuff that Channel Marine sells vs adding Starton to a tank already treated with Stabill?

My mechanic advised me against using the ValveTech (whatever it's called) that Channel and one or two other places sell because you can not be sure what the percentage of ethanol gasoline to treatment is. He says some national tests have shown plenty of ValveTech in the mixture while others show not enough because it's apparently mixed on sight.
(He also told me that he had a number of boats in the shop with ethanol issues that had used just the ValveTech product)

When I was putting my boat down here to bed I told the marina I had added StaBill for ethanol into the mix and he still told me to mix in Startron!

[kchace]

I guess I'll find out because my boat has an almost full tank of Valvetech WITH a full dose of Marine Sta-Bil. Keep in mind that every brand of gas has various additives in it you never hear anything about not mixing those.

Frankly, I've never heard of an issue mixing fuel additives and doubt there is one.

Ken

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by kchace

I guess I'll find out because my boat has an almost full tank of Valvetech WITH a full dose of Marine Sta-Bil. Keep in mind that every brand of gas has various additives in it you never hear anything about not mixing those.

Frankly, I've never heard of an issue mixing fuel additives and doubt there is one.

Ken

Like Ken said, I'll find out next year the first time I use my boat.

Starting with my first boat, bought in 1999, I stored my boat with a full tank of fuel and used Stabil (red formula) following their recommended dosage and haven't had a problem. THIS year, purely out of convenience, I filled up at West Alton Marina or Channel Marine over the course of the summer because they had the ValvTech fuel. At storage time, I topped up with untreated fuel and added Stabil Marine formula to treat the fuel I added. I'm hoping now that the two different stabilizers won't interact negatively. I believe my wife found something on the ValvTech website that indicated their stabilizer would work with other stabilizers. Stay tuned for the rest of the story in the spring.

On the plus side, both ValvTech and Stabil Marine claim to stabilize ethanol fuel for up to 12 months.

[NoBozo]

The Scary part of this whole Ethonal debate and storeage is...And I firmly believe this.....NOBODY KNOWS. I've read a LOT of articles by the "Experts" and the impression I get is they are all Winging It.

Last few years I've used Sta-Bil with Fays (previously) Non Ethonal gas and never had a problem.

Now I'm using Startron with the ethonal gas. Like the guy said..next spring will tell.

Results May Vary. The good news is that your local technicion will be kept gainfully employed, replacing everything in your engine one part at a time, short of the crankshaft, until the problem goes away. NB

PS: Mechanics used to fix things..now Technicians replace things.

[NoRegrets]

I do not like the complexity and lack of long term live testing with the "E" issue. As the vessels are underway the fuel is constantly being mixed (depending on the tank baffel system), used, and refreshed. I am not sure the impact on the compounds when they sit for a few winter months. They may separate and react with each other resulting an undesirable outcome. I have used 2 different treatments this year but have burned them through with no issues. I know the fuel does not go as far as it used to before we were forced to use ethanol.

Thank you all for the information and the live testing. Hope no one faces problems in the spring (selfishly expecially me!)

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

I do not like the complexity and lack of long term live testing with the "E" issue. As the vessels are underway the fuel is constantly being mixed (depending on the tank baffel system), used, and refreshed. I am not sure the impact on the compounds when they sit for a few winter months. They may separate and react with each other resulting an undesirable outcome. I have used 2 different treatments this year but have burned them through with no issues. I know the fuel does not go as far as it used to before we were forced to use ethanol.

Thank you all for the information and the live testing. Hope no one faces problems in the spring (selfishly expecially me!)

I have at least 2 full years (maybe 3???) using E10 and storing it over the Winter in a full tank. No problems at all.

[fatlazyless]

The Dec 1 N Y Times has an article on the US EPA considering an increase from 10 to 15% ethanol.
My links never work so if you google 'NY Times ethanol 15%' it should be first on the list. Believe the reason is to create a stronger market for US grown corn and cut down use of imported crude oil.

"EPA signals support for higher ethanol blend but delays decision..."

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

My mechanic advised me against using the ValveTech (whatever it's called) that Channel and one or two other places sell because you can not be sure what the percentage of ethanol gasoline to treatment is. He says some national tests have shown plenty of ValveTech in the mixture while others show not enough because it's apparently mixed on sight.
(He also told me that he had a number of boats in the shop with ethanol issues that had used just the ValveTech product)

Yes Valve Tech is put in on site from what I know. And like an bulk application, you can never be certain how good the mixture ratio is. Because it is not throughly mixed. Most of the Marina's on the lake are using Valve Tech.... I Know because I have asked many of them. Fays, and Anchor are the only two exceptions I know of that aren't adding Valve Tech.

As for mixing the various brands of treatment. If there is an issue There would also likely be an issue of adding to much of anyone of the treatments. Of all the treatments I have seen, all indicate that over application is not harmful. Also knowing some about chemistry, I think what you would find is there are a lot of simularities in these different brands..... In short until I see some concrete evidence, I find it hard to believe that there would be a problem. Unless you filled the tank and added a full treatment of star tron, and a full treatment of Valve Tech, all at the same time. If you regularly use star tron, and use untreated gas like I do, and then stop on the water because you need to, and fill up with pretreated Valve Tech fuel, I don't see an issue.... just don't go add more star tron on top of the pretreated fuel.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The Dec 1 N Y Times has an article on the US EPA considering an increase from 10 to 15% ethanol.
My links never work so if you google 'NY Times ethanol 15%' it should be first on the list. Believe the reason is to create a stronger market for US grown corn and cut down use of imported crude oil.

"EPA signals support for higher ethanol blend but delays decision..."

BOATUS are lobbying against any increase.

http://wired2fish.com/WhatsUp.aspx?ArticleID=2890

[lawn psycho]

So with all this concern about statification, would a slow turning agitator in the tank decrease the chance of sludge formation?

I need to get my design and patent application going quickly!!

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Lawn Psycho

So with all this concern about statification, would a slow turning agitator in the tank decrease the chance of sludge formation?

I need to get my design and patent application going quickly!!

I think the problem is on the molecular level, keeping the liquid agitated won't matter as far as I know. The best defense against sludge forming is to use the gasoline quickly, next is treat it and keep the tank full.

I am still confused why adding treatment to Valvetech gas would be a problem and I was under the impression only Channel and someone on the northern end of the lake were selling Valvetech on the lake, most others were not.

I guess I'll find out around Bike Week how the 20 year old boat wintered with ethanol!

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

According to the Valvtect website, these marinas are selling Valvtect-treated fuel on the lake:

Channel Marine
West Alton Marina
Lanes End Marina
Melvin Village Marina
Trexlers Marina
Pier 19 Grocer

I know for certain Channel and West Alton were selling it because I purchased from both of them this year. Most of the fuel in my boat's tank is Valvtect. I topped off with 20-30 gals of untreated street gas on the way home from winterizing and added enough Marine Stabile to treat that. Now I'm crossing my fingers hoping the Valvtect and Stabile play nice together!