a SIGN of things to come.... Braun Bay

[KonaChick]

Is this picture somewhere on Lake Winni??

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

It would be meaningful to truck in rocks and sand over the ice to a location far from residents whose peaceable times at their heavily-taxed properties are disrupted by today's loud sound systems, a party atmosphere, air pollution, water pollution, trash, cooking fires plus the "personal-smoke-product-of-choice".

Since your overtaxed ears, eyes, nose and internal thinking device is being hampered, are you willing to put some skin in this idea and throw down some money to make it happen.

I don't think its that bad of an idea, but I would probably never use it and I am also not complaining about the additional things that come along with owning property in a very public area, so I will likely invest my money elsewhere. But if I had to guess this would be something the state should have to pay for, no.

[Bucktail]

I live immediately on Braun Bay, I have a front seat view of what happens there throughout the Summer. I have enjoyed the discussion on the thread, with the exception of those pointing the shore side owners as being the primary source of complaint. I have asked the NHMP when they are patrolling what the source of most complaints is; they are almost 100% from boaters, trying to enjoy the bay, via cell phone and VHFs, not the home owners.

I do call the NHMP when:

1. My kids that sail the bay are endangered by boats or aircraft, they are always under my supervision. I do not feel I should have to, at any time, refrain from letting them sail because of unsafe boat traffic.
(By the way, to my surprise the safest and most courteous boaters are the go-fasts, and this is with my kids in 8 foot optis)
2. When the pilot of the SeaPlane opted to over fly their masts by about 50 ft while trying to land in the bay, I went to ask for a more prudent and FAA sanctioned approach to the bay but he left prior to my being able to go over, so I reported him (My father, a Naval Aviator and United Airlines Pilot estimated this clearance and is/was tempted to file with the FAA).
3. Loud Music and the Rebel Yells, not people play volleyball or playing but just yawping
4. Boat Horns
5. Littering

My family enjoy and love our spot and the Bay, we selected it being in the know of Braun Bay. The coming and going of boats (and Planes) and people enjoying the lake are an integral part of our Summer. We maybe called twice this season. All I ask is for people to be courteous and allow my 'peaceful' enjoyment of the bay as well.

I have provided pumps, battery boosters, extension cords, directions, tools and even jammed my knuckles to help folks enjoying the bay, as have my neighbors.

I will also go record that the sign stinks; however, the existing laws that govern navigation and safe mooring have been ignored and abused hence the sign. Give enough people, enough rope and someone will hang themselves. The sign will no longer allow boaters to be ignorant of the law, thereby making the current regs more easily enforced by the NHMP.

Another interesting point is the reason the rafting laws exist at all is for exactly the reason above, if one rafted boat goes up in flames and there are numerous rafters and an inability to disperse, the tragedy math is easy, then fingers will be pointed at our public safety officials for being negligent. As mentioned above I have boarded several vessels across the bay and been on the water my entire life, there is no doubt that with the condition of some of the ships the likelihood of an incident is not exactly remote.

[ishoot308]

Bucktail;

What a great, honest reply from someone "in the bay"! Stick around for awhile, this forum could use more of your contributions.

Dan

[jmen24]

Bucktail, Welcome to the Forum and by no means was my comment directed at those that Do Not complain. Your view on water side living in a heavily used area is a great one. If you get a chance read back through other threads and you will get an idea of where I was coming from with my post above yours. Some folks own waterfront but are terrified of everything else that comes with it and are ripe to complain about it.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Bucktail

"...The sign will no longer allow boaters to be ignorant of the law, thereby making the current regs more easily enforced by the NHMP..."

You're generally in favor of the sign, then.

There are homeowners on both sides of Braun Bay—some quite close to the revelers. (The closest being "for sale"). Could it be that the majority of complainants are those homeowners who face east?

Originally Posted by Bucktail

"...with my kids in 8 foot optis..."

"Optis", for those unfamiliar with the international "Optimist Pram" class, this photo:


While "Optis' are often seen with even "littler" kids at the helm (than the above) an even smaller boat, the 6' "Cape Cod Frosty", is designed for adult sailors:



Since neither is over 12', both have "the NH advantage" of no registration fee required annually.

Originally Posted by Bucktail

"...I have asked the NHMP when they are patrolling what the source of most complaints is; they are almost 100% from boaters, trying to enjoy the bay, via cell phone and VHFs, not the home owners..."

Any idea what the nature of these called-in complaints is? Braun Bay's southerly exposure should be fairly calm. (Except for the day I was cruising there! )

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Any idea what the nature of these called-in complaints is? Braun Bay's southerly exposure should be fairly calm. (Except for the day I was cruising there! )

I would guess the complaints are for boats being to close to each other and maybe noise. While the 25 foot rule is a little overboard in my opinion, some folks anchor way too close to other boats late in the morning on weekends when the sand bar is full. There's also the occasional inconsiderate boater with really loud music playing. Oddly, it's usually middle-aged or older single (assuming single, they show up alone in their boats) guys doing it, the music is fairly modern (like something a 14 to 19 year old female would enjoy), and it's really really creepy and amusing to witness.

[Bucktail]

I am one of the Eastern facing houses and, again, my neighbors and I are not the source of the complaints, unless they are not telling the truth when I have asked if they complain.

I do not know the reasons for the complaints, but there is no lack of reason for complaint on any given day. From noise to unsafe boating to public drinking to lascivious behavior.

Acres per Second, please do not parse my comments and quote them out of context, I would not qualify my comments as an endorsement of the sign. I even say "The sign stinks". I also go on to say it is necessary as people, even in this thread, are unfamiliar with the existing laws making it difficult and contentious to enforce same. I suspect that if existing laws are unenforceable then more stringent laws will be proposed, as we are seeing happen.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Bucktail

Acres per Second, please do not parse my comments and quote them out of context, I would not qualify my comments as an endorsement of the sign.

Welcome to the forum and be proud that you have been parsed by the king.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Welcome to the forum and be proud that you have been parsed by the king.

Sik, You beat me to it!!

[Bucktail]

LOL, here also...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Welcome to the forum and be proud that you have been parsed by the king.

Thank yew...thankyewverymuch.

(But you're catching up!)

Originally Posted by Bucktail

"...I am one of the Eastern facing houses and, again, my neighbors and I are not the source of the complaints, unless they are not telling the truth when I have asked if they complain..."

That explains it: it's the west-facing homes that have Braun Bay rafting "in their face": it'd be instructive to hear from those folks as well.

(And yes, welcome to the forum).

Originally Posted by Bucktail

"...please do not parse my comments and quote them out of context, I would not qualify my comments as an endorsement of the sign. I even say "The sign stinks". I also go on to say it is necessary as people, even in this thread, are unfamiliar with the existing laws making it difficult and contentious to enforce same. I suspect that if existing laws are unenforceable then more stringent laws will be proposed, as we are seeing happen..."

Boiled down, the context is both:

1) "...the sign stinks..."

2) "...it is necessary..."



Making it a question might have improved my original post:

"You're generally in favor of the sign, then?"

[Bucktail]

No, I am not in favor of the sign, it stinks. I am also not in favor of speed limit signs on our highways; however, they are necessary to enforce the rules of the road allowing for safety and localization and not imposing a universal speed limit, which would have to go to the lowest common denominator.

That denominator wrt rafting would be no rafting.....which I would oppose.

Apologies for the bad analogy.

In my view I would prefer the sign be removed, boater safety certification, which addresses the laws on the sign, and the existing laws enforced through citation.

[breathe easy]

Here is the bill introduced by Moultonboro NH House Rep Betsey Patten for the 2010 session and her contact info if you care to write and let her know how you feel about this proposed legislation.
Phone: (603)253-6927
Email: blpatten@hotmail.com
New bills are scheduled for public hearings after the first of the year and the public is welcome and encouraged to attend and speak their mind for or against and also welcome to write to all committee members. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hous....aspx?code=H22

HOUSE BILL 1466
AN ACT relative to rafting of boats in Braun Bay.
SPONSORS: Rep. Patten, Carr 4; Rep. Knox, Carr 4; Rep. Stevens, Carr 4

COMMITTEE: Resources, Recreation and Development

ANALYSIS

This bill establishes restrictions on the rafting of boats in Braun Bay.

Explanation: Matter added to current law appears in bold italics.

Matter removed from current law appears [in brackets and struckthrough.]

Matter which is either (a) all new or (b) repealed and reenacted appears in regular type.

10-2182

03/05

STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE

In the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Ten

AN ACT relative to rafting of boats in Braun Bay.

Be it Enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court convened:

1 New Section; Braun Bay. Amend RSA 270 by inserting after section 132 the following new section:

270:133 Braun Bay. No person shall form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay at any time when there are already 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay. In this section, “raft” shall have the same meaning as in RSA 270:42, IV. Any person who violates this section shall be guilty of a violation.

2 Effective Date. This act shall take effect January 1, 2011.

[jst_4_kiks]

for that bill to even be worried about by the MP's, they would have to have boats sit in that bay all day long just to watch how many boats are rafted together. get a life and stop complaining about little things that just are not going to go away no matter how many of the braun bay land owners complain. that bay has been a wnni hot spot for years.

have the MP got out and worry about the real violators on the lake. reckless boating, drinking, over loaded boats, etc.

[Airwaves]

I don't understand how this changes anything. Doesn't current rafting laws restrict the number of boats in a raft to two or three anyway? What am I missing or has she just not read the current law?

[tis]

I don't think so Airwaves. I think if there is a no rafting zone, you can only tie two boats together. If it is not restricted I believe you can tie as many boats as you want together.

[Airwaves]

So her proposal would limit Braun Bay to only three "rafting" groups after that no more than two boats can tie up together anywhere in the bay?

How does she propose to identify the first three rafts before all others are illegal?

I'm guessing this is another law the Marine Patrol did NOT ask for!!!

[tis]

MP, just comes around and if there are more than 2 they tell them. I don't know how often they warn them as opposed to giving them a ticket. But I have seen MP go over to them. I think the last couple of years that has been one of the things they really watch for.

[BroadHopper]

And that is, Who was there first and who are the real violators?

Many times I would be one of the first ones there and anchor well away from others. I will have my 3 daughters family and four grandkids. Your typical family with no loud noise except for kids squealing.

Others will come in and become disrespectful and raft or anchor within 25 feet. Guess what, I will be the one asked to move or get out. Some of the other boaters will tell the MP, you got the wrong guy. It doesn't matter, once they single someone out, that guy is gone.

So, how are the going to determine the good from the bad if they pass this law? Post an MP on Braun Bay all day? I'd rather have them going after the 'boneheads'.

[Bucktail]

I believe the intent is to limit the capacity of the bay to 3 rafts, consisting of three or less vessels and after that, no more more rafts period, irrespective of number of vessels.

The hardest question to answer in this posted by Broad hopper, Who has to move when a person arrives first and is outside the prescribed distance? I suppose a call to MP could establish you were there first when they come to crack down or you could try to explain the law to the encroacher and risk altercation ....

The bay is already a designated no rafting zone on the charts, here is the regulation currently on the books and is a part of the Boaters Safety course:

Rafting in New Hampshire

Raft is defined as "any group of two or more boats which are stationary upon the waters of a lake or pond and which are congregated together, whether anchored, secured to one another, or adrift, provided that at least one of the boats in the group is occupied." Rafting is "forming or being a member of a raft."

* There are designated locations where, and times during which, the size of rafts is limited and a minimum distance is required between boats and rafts.
* Currently, there are rafting restrictions in certain locations on Lake Winnipesaukee, Lake Sunapee, and Ossipee Lake.
* No one in a prohibited location or at a prohibited time may:
o Form or allow a boat, which you are operating or in charge of, to join a raft consisting of three or more boats.
o Form or allow a boat, which you are operating or in charge of, to join a raft if any part of such raft is less than 50 feet from any other raft or less than 50 feet from any occupied single boat that is stationary on the waters of the same lake or pond.
o Anchor a single boat and cause it to remain stationary on the waters of a lake or pond, other than momentarily, if any part of such boat is less than 50 feet away from any raft or less than 25 feet away from any other single boat which is stationary on the waters of such lake or pond.
* Exceptions to the rafting restrictions are:
o Boats anchored or moored at marinas, yacht clubs, or private docks with the owner's permission
o Boats involved in or attending a fireworks display, marine events, or other designated public events
o Boats on any body of water of less than 400 acres or on any estuary or tidal waters of the state

[Airwaves]

The bay is already a designated no rafting zone on the charts, here is the regulation currently on the books and is a part of the Boaters Safety course:

It is? It seems to me that there is no rafting near the fish and game lines and within 75 feet of shore. Unless Braun Bay is much smaller than I thought!

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...estricted.html
SAF-C 407.03 - Rafting as defined in RSA 2760:42 V shall be prohibited in the following areas of Lake Winnipesaukee unless covered by one of the exceptions specified inRSA 270:45:
(4) Braun Bay - There shall be no rafting within 300 feet of both fish and game property lines as delineated by Marine Patrol with orange mooring balls.

(5) Braun Bay at a distance less than 75 feet from shore lines as delineated by Marine Patrol with orange mooring balls.

[Bucktail]

I see what you mean, I had not seen that reg. I just checked two charts, and they both designate Braun Bay as being the area west of Glines Island to Kona Point. Yet the no rafting area is limited to the 'Sand Bar'area, perhaps this expands that definition and no rafting zone.

Any thoughts?

[ApS]

Looking north, this is an aerial view of Braun Bay:

That's Gilnes Island in the lower-right quadrant of the photo. The questioned area of Braun Bay is opposite—10-o'clock to the left. Hermit Cove is just behind (north of) Gilnes Island, with a rather indistinct Hermit Island nestled in it.



(Lettering—or something—appears to have been photoshopped from the lower right corner).

At present, all I have available is a Lake Winnipesaukee chart from 1987.

On it, Duncan shows just two rafting zones on all of Lake Winnipesaukee!
(Wentworth Cove south of Governor's Island, and a large, west-facing shoreline on Long Island).

The probl...issue of rafting appears to have been generated within the last 20 years or so.

I still don't understand why boaters in the area would comprise most of the complainants. Could NH Fish & Game be a part of the complaints?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by breathe easy

270:133 Braun Bay. No person shall form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay at any time when there are already 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay. In this section, “raft” shall have the same meaning as in RSA 270:42, IV. Any person who violates this section shall be guilty of a violation.

now look at the sign in this thread. only a Raft of 2 boats is permitted!!!!!!!!

Hence this legislation is no good anyways..... unless the change other existing laws....

This is trash legislation.....

Now another note, Does Betsy Patton even use the lake, I know where she lives, she is one of my neighbors. However Her and her late husband sold of the lake access property they had. Because they never used it. In short, she is willing to back something like this, but does she every even go out on the water, to understand the problem or issue.......

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

now look at the sign in this thread. only a Raft of 2 boats is permitted!!!!!!!!

Hence this legislation is no good anyways..... unless the change other existing laws....

This is trash legislation.....

Now another note, Does Betsy Patton even use the lake, I know where she lives, she is one of my neighbors. However Her and her late husband sold of the lake access property they had. Because they never used it. In short, she is willing to back something like this, but does she every even go out on the water, to understand the problem or issue.......

Must be an election coming up. With all the negative impacts regarding the current budget, fundings, and the school funding dilemma, she needs a 'feel good' law to make everyone thinks she's a good doobie.

[lawn psycho]

I'm just going to equip my bowrider will 50 ft outriggers and deploy them when I arrive at any sandbar.

Ain't no stinkin' late comer going to spoil my prime sun bathing spot

[braunbayboater]

Does anyone have an update on the legislation? As a lake shore owner in Braun Bay I think the sign s--ks and is totally unnecessary. If the boaters rafting are a problem or if some rude boaters think that everyone in NH wants to hear their music, the MP should deal with those rude boaters (there are only a couple of them). I have property on Braun Bay because I like seeing the boats and spend many hours at the sand bar myself with my Grandkids but this past summer there were a few days that I decided to stay home since the "rude" boaters were there those days.

[Airwaves]

The House Committee on Resources, Recreaton and Development voted the bill "Inexpedient to legislate".