Shared dock question

Closetzguy · 04-20-2014, 08:29 PM

I recently bought at the lake and have a home with a dock shared by 3 other homes. We all own 25% of a lake front lot with a 55' dock with 4 boat locations.

The person I bought from and 2 other owners say there is a verbal understanding of who gets what location…..and it hasn't changed in many (over 15) years. One of the owners (with the worst spot) says years ago they drew straws for who gets what spot and it needs to happen again.

There is nothing in the deed or anywhere else documenting this issue. As the "new guy" I just want to get along with my neighbors…..but am getting pressure from the guy in front of me to push towards another drawing of the straws.

Truth is, I actually have the "next to worse spot", outside, wind ward side, so I would have a 75% chance of ending up with the same or better location if we did draw again……but it would not go over well with the two most established owners!

Any thoughts?

ITD · 04-20-2014, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Closetzguy

I recently bought at the lake and have a home with a dock shared by 3 other homes. We all own 25% of a lake front lot with a 55' dock with 4 boat locations.

The person I bought from and 2 other owners say there is a verbal understanding of who gets what location…..and it hasn't changed in many (over 15) years. One of the owners (with the worst spot) says years ago they drew straws for who gets what spot and it needs to happen again.

There is nothing in the deed or anywhere else documenting this issue. As the "new guy" I just want to get along with my neighbors…..but am getting pressure from the guy in front of me to push towards another drawing of the straws.

Truth is, I actually have the "next to worse spot", outside, wide ward side, so I would have a 75% chance of ending up with the same or better location if we did draw again……but it would not go over well with the two most established owners!

Any thoughts?

I think you'll be going through this every year or two, I'd leave well enough alone.

pcmc · 04-20-2014, 09:02 PM

Maybe get the view of the person you bought the property from. See if he remembers the straw episode. I agree with leave well enough alone.

GusMan · 04-20-2014, 09:14 PM

Welcome Closetzguy!

I have had some experience in shared docking and I'd advise you to be very proactive in dealing with the other co-owners.

Now, this was years ago (10+) and not on Winnipesaukee (it was on Merrymeeting which has less restrictive mooring rules than Winnie). I bought a property with a shared dock and ROW. The previous owner had "rights" to a spot on the dock and had a "dedicated" mooring. Despite having by far the largest property and paying the most taxes, being the new guy meant that I was the low man on the totem pole. My boat was slightly larger than the previous owner, so I decided to utilize the mooring. I had no idea what the condition of the existing mooring was, so I decided to place a brand new one at my expense.

Well, as soon as I did that, several of the "old timers" claimed that there were other moorings in that general area and I'd have to move mine. Now, moorings on Merrymeeting did not need permits.. so it was totally he said/she said. The "neighbors" made our life miserable... commenting how our boat was "in the way" and on an "unauthorized" mooring. We decided to sell for another reason, but the conflict with the neighbors made the decision easy. It was also a huge issue when I went to sell the property with a mooring as no lawyer wanted to tackle the situation.

Sorry to be so negative, but be very careful... I hope it works out better for you!

Best Regards,

Gusman

brk-lnt · 04-21-2014, 04:36 AM

I'd either go with an approach of you're new and just want to leave everything as-is for a while before committing to any changes, or else establish an approach of drawing for dock spaces at a regular interval, every X seasons.

You could also say that one of the things you liked about the property was the current dock location (true or not) and so moving to change it doesn't interest you, but if everyone else wants to draw, you'll go along with the group...

secondcurve · 04-21-2014, 04:43 AM

Since you sound like a reasonable guy with not much to lose I'd go to the guy with the poor dock position and tell him he has two options: 1) Leave things as they are 2) If HE is able to convince the other two owners a change is necessary you would be agreeable to the following: Each year a "straw drawing" will occur on Labor Day to determine dock positions for the following year. If this agreement is reached, only sign-off on it if all of the owners are willing to have it recorded in the deed so there are no future problems and most importantly there are no issues when you decide to sell your home.

dpg · 04-21-2014, 05:48 AM

Maybe the four of you all agree to "draw straws" every other season or something just to change things up a little. All other things being equal (expenses, etc.) no reason one person should be stuck with the known worst spot forever.

jrc · 04-21-2014, 06:10 AM

Well since there is nothing in writing, this really becomes a good neighbor question. The guys in the better positions better become good neighbors or the guy stuck in the bad spot for 15 years will force it to be in writing. The only winners will be the lawyers.

All he has to do is dock in the position he wants, what can the other guys do? None of them own any spot more than any other.

A compromise now with a new person in the mix makes sense, why should he suffer forever. If you guys can't figure this out, you're going to have other discussions about your shared property. Wait till you find out which part of the shared beach you get stuck with.

Sue Doe-Nym · 04-21-2014, 10:37 AM

In hindsight, you would have been well advised to have the docking arrangement given to you in writing as a condition in the P & S and PRIOR to closing. Ideally, the document would have been signed by all 4 dock owners.

Your present options are pretty much limited to the ones mentioned above.

Good luck!

camp guy · 04-21-2014, 11:21 AM

Sue Doe-Nym is exactly right. This siutuation existed all around the Lake, and there are a lot of people bemoaning the fact that the dock space allocation isn't written down to prevent this very situation.

I am surprised that the real estate agent didn't "catch" this situation knowing full well that a problem could accur. You, as the buyer, are ultimately responsible, but, then again, you, as the buyer, aren't necessarily schooled in the intracacies of "shared property".

By the way, how are maintenance costs divided among the 4 of you?

Since you are the "new guy" in the equation, maybe now is the time to settle this situation once and for all. Maybe rotating docking positions is an option.

Good luck.

SAB1 · 04-21-2014, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

In hindsight, you would have been well advised to have the docking arrangement given to you in writing as a condition in the P & S and PRIOR to closing. Ideally, the document would have been signed by all 4 dock owners.

Your present options are pretty much limited to the ones mentioned above.

Good luck!

+1 here.

Anyway Nick, I probably would leave well enough alone and stick with it the way it is especially if the water depth is adequate for all boats. The only wind you need to be concerned with where you are is the North West.

Happy Gourmand · 04-21-2014, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Closetzguy

I recently bought at the lake and have a home with a dock shared by 3 other homes. We all own 25% of a lake front lot with a 55' dock with 4 boat locations.

The person I bought from and 2 other owners say there is a verbal understanding of who gets what location…..and it hasn't changed in many (over 15) years. One of the owners (with the worst spot) says years ago they drew straws for who gets what spot and it needs to happen again.

There is nothing in the deed or anywhere else documenting this issue. As the "new guy" I just want to get along with my neighbors…..but am getting pressure from the guy in front of me to push towards another drawing of the straws.

Truth is, I actually have the "next to worse spot", outside, wind ward side, so I would have a 75% chance of ending up with the same or better location if we did draw again……but it would not go over well with the two most established owners!

Any thoughts?

Seems like the fairest way to solve this would be to rotate through dock positions every year. But, good luck getting the folks with the preferred slips to agree to anything like that.

tis · 04-21-2014, 12:15 PM

I agree with Phantom G, but as he said, good luck, especially with the ones who have the best spots. What a shame you have to deal with this. I hope you can work it out.

secondcurve · 04-21-2014, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camp guy

Sue Doe-Nym is exactly right. This siutuation existed all around the Lake, and there are a lot of people bemoaning the fact that the dock space allocation isn't written down to prevent this very situation.

I am surprised that the real estate agent didn't "catch" this situation knowing full well that a problem could accur. You, as the buyer, are ultimately responsible, but, then again, you, as the buyer, aren't necessarily schooled in the intracacies of "shared property".

By the way, how are maintenance costs divided among the 4 of you?

Since you are the "new guy" in the equation, maybe now is the time to settle this situation once and for all. Maybe rotating docking positions is an option.

Good luck.

I'm sure the real estate agent knew about the situation but her/his interests weren't aligned with the buyer's. The only thing he/she cared about was closing the deal and picking up a commission check.

pcmc · 04-21-2014, 01:49 PM

I am trying to imagine how bad the worst spot might be??? On the flip side, it could make the most sense that the best boat operator parks in the most challenging spot, if that is what makes this the worst dock space.

If it's so bad, put all of your heads together and have the dock rebuilt to favor everyone evenly. When it comes to enjoying your investment vs regretting seeing your neighbor, it's only money, anything can fixed but friendships unfortunately seem to be the hardest!

Wish you the best.

pcmc · 04-21-2014, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I'm sure the real estate agent knew about the situation but her/his interests weren't aligned with the buyer's. The only thing he/she cared about was closing the deal and picking up a commission check.

Gosh I hate to agree with you on this, but.......

SAB1 · 04-21-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcmc

If it's so bad, put all of your heads together and have the dock rebuilt to favor everyone evenly. When it comes to enjoying your investment vs regretting seeing your neighbor, it's only money, anything can fixed but friendships seem to be the hardest!

That could be pricey proposition. Yikes.

pcmc · 04-21-2014, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAB1

That could be pricey proposition. Yikes.

Yes, but IF it could be done reasonably the others may end up grateful. I not saying rebuild a massive dock configuration, maybe a small alteration would do. We don't have a waterfront property, but have had some projects at the house done by some local fellows. The price was great, and we are very happy with the work. We look forward to crossing paths with Tim when we are at the lake.

pcmc · 04-21-2014, 02:25 PM

Closetzguy, if it's not to much trouble post a pic of the situation with the dock and maybe a solution or alternative option can be achieved.

Who knows, maybe one of the poster's here offering kind advice will see its their dock.

(kidding)

04-20-2014, 08:29 PM	#1
Closetzguy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Andover, Ma and Tuftonboro, NH Posts: 97 Thanks: 15 Thanked 28 Times in 13 Posts	Shared dock question I recently bought at the lake and have a home with a dock shared by 3 other homes. We all own 25% of a lake front lot with a 55' dock with 4 boat locations. The person I bought from and 2 other owners say there is a verbal understanding of who gets what location…..and it hasn't changed in many (over 15) years. One of the owners (with the worst spot) says years ago they drew straws for who gets what spot and it needs to happen again. There is nothing in the deed or anywhere else documenting this issue. As the "new guy" I just want to get along with my neighbors…..but am getting pressure from the guy in front of me to push towards another drawing of the straws. Truth is, I actually have the "next to worse spot", outside, wind ward side, so I would have a 75% chance of ending up with the same or better location if we did draw again……but it would not go over well with the two most established owners! Any thoughts? Last edited by Closetzguy; 04-20-2014 at 09:39 PM.

04-20-2014, 09:14 PM	#4
GusMan Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 42 Times in 24 Posts	Shared docking.. Welcome Closetzguy! I have had some experience in shared docking and I'd advise you to be very proactive in dealing with the other co-owners. Now, this was years ago (10+) and not on Winnipesaukee (it was on Merrymeeting which has less restrictive mooring rules than Winnie). I bought a property with a shared dock and ROW. The previous owner had "rights" to a spot on the dock and had a "dedicated" mooring. Despite having by far the largest property and paying the most taxes, being the new guy meant that I was the low man on the totem pole. My boat was slightly larger than the previous owner, so I decided to utilize the mooring. I had no idea what the condition of the existing mooring was, so I decided to place a brand new one at my expense. Well, as soon as I did that, several of the "old timers" claimed that there were other moorings in that general area and I'd have to move mine. Now, moorings on Merrymeeting did not need permits.. so it was totally he said/she said. The "neighbors" made our life miserable... commenting how our boat was "in the way" and on an "unauthorized" mooring. We decided to sell for another reason, but the conflict with the neighbors made the decision easy. It was also a huge issue when I went to sell the property with a mooring as no lawyer wanted to tackle the situation. Sorry to be so negative, but be very careful... I hope it works out better for you! Best Regards, Gusman

04-21-2014, 04:36 AM	#5
brk-lnt Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Down Shores Posts: 1,937 Thanks: 532 Thanked 568 Times in 334 Posts	I'd either go with an approach of you're new and just want to leave everything as-is for a while before committing to any changes, or else establish an approach of drawing for dock spaces at a regular interval, every X seasons. You could also say that one of the things you liked about the property was the current dock location (true or not) and so moving to change it doesn't interest you, but if everyone else wants to draw, you'll go along with the group... __________________ [insert witty phrase here]

04-21-2014, 04:43 AM	#6
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084 Thanks: 1,267 Thanked 557 Times in 286 Posts	How I'd Handle The Issue Since you sound like a reasonable guy with not much to lose I'd go to the guy with the poor dock position and tell him he has two options: 1) Leave things as they are 2) If HE is able to convince the other two owners a change is necessary you would be agreeable to the following: Each year a "straw drawing" will occur on Labor Day to determine dock positions for the following year. If this agreement is reached, only sign-off on it if all of the owners are willing to have it recorded in the deed so there are no future problems and most importantly there are no issues when you decide to sell your home.

04-21-2014, 11:21 AM	#10
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,135 Thanks: 284 Thanked 480 Times in 271 Posts	Shared dock question Sue Doe-Nym is exactly right. This siutuation existed all around the Lake, and there are a lot of people bemoaning the fact that the dock space allocation isn't written down to prevent this very situation. I am surprised that the real estate agent didn't "catch" this situation knowing full well that a problem could accur. You, as the buyer, are ultimately responsible, but, then again, you, as the buyer, aren't necessarily schooled in the intracacies of "shared property". By the way, how are maintenance costs divided among the 4 of you? Since you are the "new guy" in the equation, maybe now is the time to settle this situation once and for all. Maybe rotating docking positions is an option. Good luck.

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04-20-2014, 09:02 PM	#3
pcmc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 412 Thanks: 211 Thanked 106 Times in 73 Posts	Maybe get the view of the person you bought the property from. See if he remembers the straw episode. I agree with leave well enough alone.

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04-21-2014, 05:48 AM	#7
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,560 Thanks: 149 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	Maybe the four of you all agree to "draw straws" every other season or something just to change things up a little. All other things being equal (expenses, etc.) no reason one person should be stuck with the known worst spot forever.

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04-21-2014, 06:10 AM	#8
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Well since there is nothing in writing, this really becomes a good neighbor question. The guys in the better positions better become good neighbors or the guy stuck in the bad spot for 15 years will force it to be in writing. The only winners will be the lawyers. All he has to do is dock in the position he wants, what can the other guys do? None of them own any spot more than any other. A compromise now with a new person in the mix makes sense, why should he suffer forever. If you guys can't figure this out, you're going to have other discussions about your shared property. Wait till you find out which part of the shared beach you get stuck with.

04-21-2014, 10:37 AM	#9
Sue Doe-Nym Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,372 Thanks: 710 Thanked 758 Times in 393 Posts	In hindsight, you would have been well advised to have the docking arrangement given to you in writing as a condition in the P & S and PRIOR to closing. Ideally, the document would have been signed by all 4 dock owners. Your present options are pretty much limited to the ones mentioned above. Good luck!

04-21-2014, 12:15 PM	#13
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,405 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,379 Times in 955 Posts	I agree with Phantom G, but as he said, good luck, especially with the ones who have the best spots. What a shame you have to deal with this. I hope you can work it out.

04-21-2014, 01:49 PM	#15
pcmc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 412 Thanks: 211 Thanked 106 Times in 73 Posts	I am trying to imagine how bad the worst spot might be??? On the flip side, it could make the most sense that the best boat operator parks in the most challenging spot, if that is what makes this the worst dock space. If it's so bad, put all of your heads together and have the dock rebuilt to favor everyone evenly. When it comes to enjoying your investment vs regretting seeing your neighbor, it's only money, anything can fixed but friendships unfortunately seem to be the hardest! Wish you the best.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pcmc For This Useful Post:
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04-21-2014, 02:25 PM	#19
pcmc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 412 Thanks: 211 Thanked 106 Times in 73 Posts	Closetzguy, if it's not to much trouble post a pic of the situation with the dock and maybe a solution or alternative option can be achieved. Who knows, maybe one of the poster's here offering kind advice will see its their dock. (kidding)