Rock Relocation

CaptT820 · 06-27-2016, 01:14 PM

I will start this post with the fact that I know a lot of the DES regulations in relation to removal or relocation of anything relating to public waterways, including Lake Winnipesaukee. I have yet to find anything regulatory relating to my case, so if anyone can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it.

We are looking to properly remove of several significant rocks off our shore that were placed there during the previous homeowner's tenure. The rocks are clearly there by manmade occurances and are therefore not natural by any means. The previous homeowner created a submerged rock structure on which to anchor their wooden dock. The dock is long gone, some posts are submerged and all of the rocks are still there. The rocks inhibit full access to our dock. Does this require a permit to relocate the rocks, as the rocks are not in their natural state, or can we just move them?

I know it seems like we need permits to do everything these days, but I figured I'd throw it out there for discussion.

secondcurve · 06-27-2016, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptT820

I will start this post with the fact that I know a lot of the DES regulations in relation to removal or relocation of anything relating to public waterways, including Lake Winnipesaukee. I have yet to find anything regulatory relating to my case, so if anyone can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it.

We are looking to properly remove of several significant rocks off our shore that were placed there during the previous homeowner's tenure. The rocks are clearly there by manmade occurances and are therefore not natural by any means. The previous homeowner created a submerged rock structure on which to anchor their wooden dock. The dock is long gone, some posts are submerged and all of the rocks are still there. The rocks inhibit full access to our dock. Does this require a permit to relocate the rocks, as the rocks are not in their natural state, or can we just move them?

I know it seems like we need permits to do everything these days, but I figured I'd throw it out there for discussion.

How do you plan to move the rocks? Heavy equipment?

Descant · 06-27-2016, 10:09 PM

Most contractors are very familiar with the regs and can tell you quickly whether your job needs a permit. The resident expert on this forum is "Shore Things" (DES), so watch for her post. Or just call DES. They talk to everybody for free. Most permits also go through your local Conservation Commission. Since they usually meet monthly, a permit that goes through them is often on hold for a month or two until their next meeting. Not a big deal since many contractors are backlogged that far at this time of year.

winnipiseogee · 06-28-2016, 05:29 AM

I'm not sure about the regs but I can share my experience. We had a home on the lake where a previous owner had built a half ass platform deck out over the water. To do so he had similarly made a big pile of rocks. under the deck. As you can imagine the ice flow each year significantly damaged the deck.

We wanted to remove the deck and the rocks because it covered a portion of our sandy beach. We hired a reasonably respected contractor to get the permits and were ultimately told that we could continually receive permits for replacing the deck but we would not get a permit to remove it.

2 years later the owner of one of the largest most respected waterfront contractors told me I was dumb to apply for the permit. Nothing I wanted to do would have require a barge or heavy equipment. He said I could have removed it all and had DES shown up they might have said I was "wrong" to do so but there was 0% change they'd have me rebuild the artificially made structure.

CaptT820 · 06-28-2016, 06:19 PM

SecondCurve- I have tossed around a lot of ideas on how to remove the rocks and some form of buoyancy system seems to be the choice that is cheapest. To move a 500 pound rock (average largest rock we have) you only need 8 cubic feet of air buoyancy, so I was thinking some sort of PVC raft style system may work and then lift the rocks individually into deeper water.

I would love to avoid getting large equipment involved due to the cost if nothing else, albeit it would be the fastest and most effective way to deal with the problem. I am still kicking around solutions.

secondcurve · 06-28-2016, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptT820

SecondCurve- I have tossed around a lot of ideas on how to remove the rocks and some form of buoyancy system seems to be the choice that is cheapest. To move a 500 pound rock (average largest rock we have) you only need 8 cubic feet of air buoyancy, so I was thinking some sort of PVC raft style system may work and then lift the rocks individually into deeper water.

I would love to avoid getting large equipment involved due to the cost if nothing else, albeit it would be the fastest and most effective way to deal with the problem. I am still kicking around solutions.

More importantly if you stay away from the heavy equipment you should be safe doing it yourself especially since these rocks were placed there by the previous owner. Good luck.

depasseg · 06-29-2016, 03:18 PM

You might find this thread helpful:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=19843

songkrai · 06-29-2016, 04:06 PM

I think that Taylor Rental has a submergible backhoe.

Onshore · 07-05-2016, 11:33 AM

Yes you need a Wetlands permit to relocate rocks within public submerged lands. and yes if they were placed there by a previous owner you should have no issues obtaining the permit that is required.

06-27-2016, 01:14 PM	#1
CaptT820 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 122 Thanks: 86 Thanked 46 Times in 27 Posts	Rock Relocation I will start this post with the fact that I know a lot of the DES regulations in relation to removal or relocation of anything relating to public waterways, including Lake Winnipesaukee. I have yet to find anything regulatory relating to my case, so if anyone can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it. We are looking to properly remove of several significant rocks off our shore that were placed there during the previous homeowner's tenure. The rocks are clearly there by manmade occurances and are therefore not natural by any means. The previous homeowner created a submerged rock structure on which to anchor their wooden dock. The dock is long gone, some posts are submerged and all of the rocks are still there. The rocks inhibit full access to our dock. Does this require a permit to relocate the rocks, as the rocks are not in their natural state, or can we just move them? I know it seems like we need permits to do everything these days, but I figured I'd throw it out there for discussion.

06-27-2016, 10:09 PM	#3
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,031 Thanks: 1,211 Thanked 1,511 Times in 983 Posts	Call your contractor Most contractors are very familiar with the regs and can tell you quickly whether your job needs a permit. The resident expert on this forum is "Shore Things" (DES), so watch for her post. Or just call DES. They talk to everybody for free. Most permits also go through your local Conservation Commission. Since they usually meet monthly, a permit that goes through them is often on hold for a month or two until their next meeting. Not a big deal since many contractors are backlogged that far at this time of year.

06-28-2016, 06:19 PM	#5
CaptT820 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 122 Thanks: 86 Thanked 46 Times in 27 Posts	Equipment for Rock removal SecondCurve- I have tossed around a lot of ideas on how to remove the rocks and some form of buoyancy system seems to be the choice that is cheapest. To move a 500 pound rock (average largest rock we have) you only need 8 cubic feet of air buoyancy, so I was thinking some sort of PVC raft style system may work and then lift the rocks individually into deeper water. I would love to avoid getting large equipment involved due to the cost if nothing else, albeit it would be the fastest and most effective way to deal with the problem. I am still kicking around solutions.

06-28-2016, 05:29 AM	#4
winnipiseogee Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 297 Thanks: 67 Thanked 152 Times in 79 Posts	I'm not sure about the regs but I can share my experience. We had a home on the lake where a previous owner had built a half ass platform deck out over the water. To do so he had similarly made a big pile of rocks. under the deck. As you can imagine the ice flow each year significantly damaged the deck. We wanted to remove the deck and the rocks because it covered a portion of our sandy beach. We hired a reasonably respected contractor to get the permits and were ultimately told that we could continually receive permits for replacing the deck but we would not get a permit to remove it. 2 years later the owner of one of the largest most respected waterfront contractors told me I was dumb to apply for the permit. Nothing I wanted to do would have require a barge or heavy equipment. He said I could have removed it all and had DES shown up they might have said I was "wrong" to do so but there was 0% change they'd have me rebuild the artificially made structure.

The Following User Says Thank You to secondcurve For This Useful Post:
CaptT820 (06-29-2016)

06-29-2016, 03:18 PM	#7
depasseg Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 129 Thanks: 16 Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts	You might find this thread helpful: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=19843

06-29-2016, 04:06 PM	#8
songkrai Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 725 Thanks: 35 Thanked 145 Times in 98 Posts	I think that Taylor Rental has a submergible backhoe.

07-05-2016, 11:33 AM	#9
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 500 Thanks: 12 Thanked 400 Times in 143 Posts	Yes you need a Wetlands permit to relocate rocks within public submerged lands. and yes if they were placed there by a previous owner you should have no issues obtaining the permit that is required.

The Following User Says Thank You to Onshore For This Useful Post:
CaptT820 (07-21-2016)