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Old 10-23-2006, 12:14 PM   #1
Airwaves
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Default Battle of the boat dollars; State vs Local

I just got a letter from the NH Dept of Safety dated Oct 18. Looks like they are trying to get boaters to deal directly with them. An effective way to do it especially for out of state boaters.

Forgive spelling errors, I am typing quickly, any errors are mine, not theirs:

Quote:
Recently you received your vessel registration renewal for the 2007 boating season in the mail. I would like to take a moment to let you know how the money you spend for that registration is utilized by the State of New Hampshire.

When you send your registration renewal directly to the Department of Safety in Concord in the postage paid envelope which was provided for that purpose, you are making an investment in preserving our public waters, ensuring that when you take to the waters it will be a safe and positive experience.

The New Hampshire Marine Patrol uses these dedicated funds to provide law enforcement personnel, vessel that provide assistance to boaters, effective participation in search and rescue efforts, the placement and maintenance of all State's regulatory markers and other aids to navigation. Your investment in watercraft safety has provided for the implementation of the "C-150" Program initiated in 2006, which provides specially marked buoys to help the boaters identify the 150 foot distance from shore. We have been able to provide more convenient locations for the boater certification courses in all areas of the state, along with the very popular Boater's Guides.

New Hampshire's long-standing commitment to provide a diverse vacation experience, enjoyable and safe for all, is wholly dependent upon your support. Help preserve the quality of this natural resource for generations to come. Please mail you registration early for a quick turnaround.

Very truly yours,
David T. Barrett
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Old 10-23-2006, 12:48 PM   #2
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Budget challenged Marine Patrol sends how many thousands of letters to all registered boat owners at what cost? Seems odd to me.
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Old 10-23-2006, 06:48 PM   #3
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It's an inexpensive way to appeal directly to the boaters.

If it were me I think I'd make it clearer that it is a convenient way to pre-register your boat for next season and that all the money collected goes to fund the Marine Patrol, then get into the things MP do.

All in all very cost effective way to increase their "take" and only reaches the folks they want to reach. Boaters in NH.

I wonder if they sent these letters out to all people with boats registered in NH or if they targeted out of state owners?
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Old 10-24-2006, 08:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves
It's an inexpensive way to appeal directly to the boaters.

If it were me I think I'd make it clearer that it is a convenient way to pre-register your boat for next season and that all the money collected goes to fund the Marine Patrol, then get into the things MP do.

All in all very cost effective way to increase their "take" and only reaches the folks they want to reach. Boaters in NH.

I wonder if they sent these letters out to all people with boats registered in NH or if they targeted out of state owners?
I'm a resident of NH and got the letter. I suspect that they sent it to all registered boat owners - in state and out of state.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:12 AM   #5
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Post Yes

My primary residence is out of state, but the boat is at my secondary residence in state. I received a copy of the letter too. So, they sent it to everyone registered in NH.

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Old 10-24-2006, 07:05 PM   #6
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Default MP letter

I got my new renewel form in the mail, I live in CT and I did not get a letter.
But I can see why, cause most that live out of state will more than likely send to Concord anyway. I am not the landowner in NH, so I will ask my dad what he got. Dad is in Florida and he did not get one. But he did get his renewel notice before he left on the 14th of Oct.
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Old 10-24-2006, 07:14 PM   #7
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Default Boat reg.

Got mine (Conn.) 2 weeks ago. Gonna send it in, rather than register at Heath's like I usually do.
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Old 10-24-2006, 08:03 PM   #8
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Default letter from stste of NH

got my letter along with regestration two weeks ago



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Old 10-25-2006, 06:47 AM   #9
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Default Yesterday

Got mine in the mail yesterday, October 24th.
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:52 PM   #10
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Exclamation Oops!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves
...If it were me I think I'd make it clearer that it is a convenient way to pre-register your boat for next season and that all the money collected goes to fund the Marine Patrol, then get into the things MP do...All in all very cost effective way to increase their "take" and only reaches the folks they want to reach. Boaters in NH...
Airwaves is absolutely correct, I mispoke in a different thread about the allocation of collected boat registrations. For those of you interested, here is a portion of the pertinent RSA regarding same:

Section 72-A:4
72-A:4 Collection. – The boat fee shall be collected as follows:
I. For boats which are required to be registered with the department of safety under the provisions of RSA 270-E, the fee shall be paid prior to, or at the time of, registration. The fee may be paid to:
(a) An agent of the department of safety duly authorized to issue boat registrations under RSA 270-E. These agents shall furnish a surety bond as required in RSA 41:6;
(b) The town or city clerk, or tax collector in the place where the boat is registered; or
(c) The department of safety.
II. For boats which are exempt from the department of safety registration, the fee shall be paid to the town or city clerk, or tax collector as provided in RSA 72-A:8.
III. In addition to the fee set in RSA 72-A:3, $1 shall be paid to cover the cost of collection. When the fee is collected by a clerk, tax collector, or authorized agent, he or she shall retain the $1 as compensation. When the fee is collected by the department of safety, the fee shall be deposited in the navigation safety fund established under RSA 270-E:6-a.
Source. 1978, 12:1. 1979, 462:1. 1981, 323:4. 1988, 198:8. 1990, 229:5 1999, 193:2, eff. July 1, 1999.

Section 72-A:5

72-A:5 Town Treasurer. –
I. Every clerk, tax collector, and authorized agent shall each week send all boat fees collected to his town or city treasurer. Except as provided in paragraph II, boat fees shall be for the general use of the town or city.
II. When the boat fee is collected by the department of safety, the fee shall be deposited in the navigation safety fund established under RSA 270-E:6-a.
Source. 1978, 12:1. 1979, 484:3. 1981, 323:4. 1988, 198:3. 1990, 229:6. 1999, 193:3, eff. July 1, 1999.


The Navigation Safety Fund mentioned above is defined here:

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270-E
VESSEL REGISTRATION AND NUMBERING
Section 270-E:6-a
270-E:6-a Navigation Safety Fund. – There is established the navigation safety fund which shall be nonlapsing and continually appropriated to the department of safety, division of safety services. The state treasurer may invest moneys in the fund as provided by law and all interest received on such investment shall be credited to the fund. The fund shall only be used to promote the safety of navigation and the administration and enforcement of RSA 270, RSA 270-B, RSA 270-D, and RSA 270-E.
Source. 1999, 193:8, eff. July 1, 1999.


I apologize if my previous error caused any confusion!

Thanks Airwaves.....

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Old 10-26-2006, 08:50 AM   #11
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Default Gilford Appeals to the Governor

Gilford is fighting back.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...266/-1/CITIZEN
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:48 AM   #12
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I got my stack of renewals as well as the letter yesterday.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllyPoinster
Gilford is greedy and misrepresents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laconia Citizen Online
Doten said it was not as if the town was not paying a portion of what they take in to the state, as required by law. The town merely wants to keep its piece of the registration revenue pie, as there are expenses associated with having a town on the lake. Among those costs is the cleanup of milfoil in Smith Cove. That work will be paid for by the town, not the state.
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...266/-1/CITIZEN

The truth is that the Smith Cove area property owners are substantially contributing to the cost of the milfoil removal effort and not through their property taxes; but above and beyond.

Related links:
http://www.gilfordnh.org/Public_Docu...FFCA4-009FFCB5

http://gilfordgrok.com/blog2/2006/07...ulling_wh.html

http://www.nhinsider.com/nhictn/2006...n-milfoil.html

http://www.des.state.nh.us/WMB/exoti...005_Report.pdf
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Last edited by GWC...; 10-26-2006 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:36 PM   #14
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If there are costs associated with being a lakefront community, there is also a whale of a lot of extra revenue generated by horrendous lakefront property taxes with little in the way of services being provided in return.

That said, I've always gone out of my way to see to it that Meredith gets their portion of my boat registration fee, because to my mind they go out of their way to provide extra services for the boating community. I'll likely do so again this season.

It also strikes me that, if the income from boat registrations is important enough for the politicians to squabble over , and, since we boaters can decide who gets the money , it would be a way for us to express our appreciation to towns or organizations (i.e., the MP) that treat us well and lack of appreciation for those that don't.

Anybody interested in a discussion concerning who's been naughty and nice?

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Old 10-26-2006, 08:38 PM   #15
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I have to tell ya,

After reading the Laconia Citizen article linked above there is no way in the world I would given Gilford an extra dollar!

I pay an incredible amount of money in RE taxes to Gilford every year, I do NOT place a drain on the town, I don't live there, I don't have chidren going to the schools, I don't even get plowed out by the town during the winter!

So...What happens to my money?

It goes go pay for the things in town that that "townies" don't have to pay for!

I pay nearly $5,000 in property tax to Gilford, They are complaining about an exrta $48 that would go to fund the Marine Patrol?

I think you know what the next two words that I have to say to the Town of Gilford are. .... ...
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Old 10-27-2006, 12:27 AM   #16
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After raeding an article in the online NH Union Leader, it would seem that an Executive Councilor needs to read skip's post dated 10-25-2006 03:52 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip
Section 72-A:4
72-A:4 Collection. – The boat fee shall be collected as follows:
I. For boats which are required to be registered with the department of safety under the provisions of RSA 270-E, the fee shall be paid prior to, or at the time of, registration. The fee may be paid to:
(a) An agent of the department of safety duly authorized to issue boat registrations under RSA 270-E. These agents shall furnish a surety bond as required in RSA 41:6;
(b) The town or city clerk, or tax collector in the place where the boat is registered; or
(c) The department of safety.
II. For boats which are exempt from the department of safety registration, the fee shall be paid to the town or city clerk, or tax collector as provided in RSA 72-A:8.
III. In addition to the fee set in RSA 72-A:3, $1 shall be paid to cover the cost of collection. When the fee is collected by a clerk, tax collector, or authorized agent, he or she shall retain the $1 as compensation. When the fee is collected by the department of safety, the fee shall be deposited in the navigation safety fund established under RSA 270-E:6-a.
Source. 1978, 12:1. 1979, 462:1. 1981, 323:4. 1988, 198:8. 1990, 229:5 1999, 193:2, eff. July 1, 1999.


Section 72-A:5


72-A:5 Town Treasurer. –
I. Every clerk, tax collector, and authorized agent shall each week send all boat fees collected to his town or city treasurer. Except as provided in paragraph II, boat fees shall be for the general use of the town or city.
II. When the boat fee is collected by the department of safety, the fee shall be deposited in the navigation safety fund established under RSA 270-E:6-a.

Source. 1978, 12:1. 1979, 484:3. 1981, 323:4. 1988, 198:3. 1990, 229:6. 1999, 193:3, eff. July 1, 1999.

The Navigation Safety Fund mentioned above is defined here:

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270-E
VESSEL REGISTRATION AND NUMBERING
Section 270-E:6-a
270-E:6-a Navigation Safety Fund. – There is established the navigation safety fund which shall be nonlapsing and continually appropriated to the department of safety, division of safety services. The state treasurer may invest moneys in the fund as provided by law and all interest received on such investment shall be credited to the fund. The fund shall only be used to promote the safety of navigation and the administration and enforcement of RSA 270, RSA 270-B, RSA 270-D, and RSA 270-E.
Source. 1999, 193:8, eff. July 1, 1999.
online NH Union Leader article link:
http://gamma.unionleader.com/article...6-43ca010175a7
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:16 AM   #17
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Originally posted by Silver Duck
Quote:
It also strikes me that, if the income from boat registrations is important enough for the politicians to squabble over , and, since we boaters can decide who gets the money , it would be a way for us to express our appreciation to towns or organizations (i.e., the MP) that treat us well and lack of appreciation for those that don't.
Good point - we do get to decide where the money goes but there is no one "right" answer here.

If the community where you keep your boat actually funds facilities and/or programs that benefit the boating public, such as town docks, fire boats or milfoil prevention/eradication, then they deserve your consideration. If they don't, and the money is just another source of revenue for the general coffers, I'd frankly rather see it go to the State where it will be dedicated to the Marine Patrol.
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Old 10-27-2006, 11:58 AM   #18
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Default Play & Pay!

This is an excellent opportunity for the 'average Joe' to financially express his opinion. Now, if we could only have local, state, and federal fees/taxes work the same way!

Last edited by jimbob1603; 10-27-2006 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 10-27-2006, 02:02 PM   #19
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During the "Great Speed Limit Debate" we all pretty much agreed the MP needed better funding. I had no idea that my boat registration $$$ were going into the towns general fund. I will send my registration to the state... to better fund the MP!

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Old 10-27-2006, 06:18 PM   #20
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Default MP funds

Big argument over Marine Patrol funds, education (boating) has happened on this forum in the last two years. Yes the towns have or at least some of them have public docks and launches and I along with my family appreciate that. But we need the marine patrol to be funded more to serve and protect the boating world. I recall the state saying they are not giving them additional funding, I doubt if the cities or towns provide them with any funds, but expect them to do a job.

I got my registration paperwork a couple weeks ago I guess and today I got the letter. As an out of stater I will be sending my fee to the state so that the Marine Patrol will get at least a slice of my dollar.
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Old 10-27-2006, 10:49 PM   #21
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Default It would be nice to see a specific plan

I want the Marine Patrol to be better funded but it would be nice to get a specific plan, i.e. "We will add 4 boats and 10 officers next year with a focus on X, Y, and Z programs and enforcement. To fund this we will need $XXX and will increase registration cost by $NN." My registration costs around $60. I would happily pay an additional $5 if that would go directly to the Marine patrol for targeted improvements. That would net about $500,000 (100,000 registered boaters) which I think would nicely fund significant improvements. Why is this so hard and why do we need to play these games, pitting state against town?
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Old 10-28-2006, 02:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffk
I want the Marine Patrol to be better funded but it would be nice to get a specific plan, i.e. "We will add 4 boats and 10 officers next year with a focus on X, Y, and Z programs and enforcement. To fund this we will need $XXX and will increase registration cost by $NN." My registration costs around $60. I would happily pay an additional $5 if that would go directly to the Marine patrol for targeted improvements. That would net about $500,000 (100,000 registered boaters) which I think would nicely fund significant improvements. Why is this so hard and why do we need to play these games, pitting state against town?
I hardly think that they need more boats, have you seen the armada they have? Many never leave the dock. Are two large cruisers really necessary along with everything else they have? I think one that size is more than sufficient. Maybe a bit less spent on floating "toys" and more spent on training officers, maybe pay increases to get quality people, or just more shift hours to allot may be a better use of funds.
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Old 10-29-2006, 01:17 PM   #23
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How many boats are in the Marine Patrol fleet and how many are on Winnipesaukee vs the rest of the state?
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Old 10-29-2006, 06:40 PM   #24
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Default agreement

I see no need of patrol boats larger that that black moriah with two outboards on the stern. The two big boats use a few people on board to operate it, and use a hell of a lot of fuel and I doubt if they could catch a boat in a chase. I think they should sell them boats (ON THE OCEAN) and use smaller crafts on the lake that are not costing so much.

Someone said that they would gladly send in an additional $5.00 to help fund the Marine patrol. That is good, why not do it and see just what happens!
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Old 10-29-2006, 07:29 PM   #25
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Default Marine PatrolBoats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves
How many boats are in the Marine Patrol fleet and how many are on Winnipesaukee vs the rest of the state?
I remember back in the 1950's when there were only two Steelcraft Cruisers covering the whole Lake. You still saw them more than you wnated to see them.
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Old 10-29-2006, 08:59 PM   #26
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Default Another article

Here's a link to an article that I haven't seen yet. This whole thing is very interesting. I've seen the ways many, many towns spend money (a minor example: cobblestone crosswalks....huh?) and I bet dollar for dollar we'd get ALOT more for our money by directing it to Marine Patrol than to any town. I will say though I'm glad it's me who will be making the decision about my boat reg. bucks.

http://www.eagletribune.com/nhnews/l...0094236?page=0
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:41 PM   #27
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Post Very Interesting

I just sent my registration(s) directly in to the state. I think that the money is much better spent directed to boater's services (such as Marine Patrol). Having boater's fees directly subsidize a town's tax base is very much off target. IMHO

Just my 2 cents.

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Old 10-29-2006, 10:56 PM   #28
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Maybe you misunderstood?

J.A.B. wrote in part:
Quote:
The two big boats use a few people on board to operate it, and use a hell of a lot of fuel and I doubt if they could catch a boat in a chase. I think they should sell them boats (ON THE OCEAN) and use smaller crafts on the lake that are not costing so much.
Those vessels are not used by the USCG or the Marine Patrol for chasing down violators of the law.

They are utility boats.

They are designed for heavy weather. They are designed to take the prop wash from a USCG or Medical helicopter.

So, if you are in trouble on Lake Winnipesaukee, the past few days are a good example, do you want an 18 foot Sears aluminum boat with an outboard trying to rescue you? Or maybe a 25' boat that Marine Patrol might have on hand, or whatever else may be available?

Do you want a vessel with a crew on board that is designed for heavy weather and rescue operations headed out onto the lake to save your ass?

I know that many folks on Winnipesaukee have labeled the former CG boats "Battleships" but when the weather is bad those "Battleships" can and will save your life and the lives of your loved ones.

Or I can lend them an 8' rowboat.
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Old 10-30-2006, 04:51 PM   #29
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I had not thought too much about that, I have seen one of these boats out on patrol during the day. And then on the 4th of July firworks out of Alton Bay they put that large craft at echo point and the stern was not lite up it was on the bridge and we came much too close. 50% of that dark boat could not be seen at night. I have no idea if they corrected that or not.

It has its uses I will grant that, but I think it is too big. And when they had the steel crafts in the 50's the towns had their police boats out patroling. Mr. Cates did Alton Bay and knew where everyone was. and he had a 15' starcraft with an evinrude on it I believe. I could be wrong, but he knew what I had.
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Old 10-30-2006, 07:48 PM   #30
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I believe the "Battleships" are 41 or 44 footers, certainly not the largest vessels on the lake by a long shot.

As for the stern light I don't know the answer to that one off the top of my head. I think it needs to be on the stern because there is an all around white light required on the masthead so if that is the only white light you saw then you might want to point that out to them, but I am not certain without looking up the regs on that size boat.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...ze=big&cat=502

Times have certainly changed since Mr Cates patroled Alton Bay, the islands are more populated for one not to mention the increase in the use of the lake. There is a lot to be said about having officiers assigned to specific areas of the lake getting to know residents but that goes to the staffing issue again.
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:18 PM   #31
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Default Was it the Anchor light you saw?

J.A.B
I looked up the lighting rules for both NH and the CG to see if the stern light has to be on the stern. This is what I found.

Quote:
From the NavRules. Rule 21. C.
"Sternlight" means a white light placed as nearly as practicable at the stern showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 135 degrees and so fixed as to show the light 67.5 degrees from right aft on each side of the vessel.

From the NH Boaters Guide
If less than 65.6 ft. (20 meters) long, these vessels must exhibit the lights as shown in Figure 1. Remember, power-driven vessels include sailboats operating under power. The required lights are:
• Red and green bow lights visible from a distance of at least one mile on a dark clear night
• An all-round white light or both a masthead light and a sternlight. These lights must be visible from a distance of at least two miles on a dark clear night. The all-round white light (or the masthead light) must be at least one meter (3.3 ft.) higher than the bow lights.
Then I got thinking, if you nearly ran into the Marine Patrol “Battleship” during the 4th of July event then it could be that it was there as a fixed station and had it’s “anchor” light on?

Quote:
From the NH Boaters Guide
All vessels are required to use a white light visible for 360 degrees and visible from a distance of two miles whenever they are moored or anchored away from dock between sunset and sunrise.

From the NavRules Rule 30 a & b
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
i. in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
ii. at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
So maybe what you saw wasn't the stern light but the anchor light?
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Old 10-31-2006, 07:19 PM   #32
John A. Birdsall
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Default Anchor Lights

airwaves I won't disagree, however with traffic flow coming out of Alton Bay after the fireworks, and that boat stopped (I doubt if at anchor) without stern lights on, just a mast head, he was a hazzard to navigation. It was like having an additional 40-45' of land off 20" or so of shore aimed at the other shore. It was dangerous and should have stern lights on.

They were not out their doing bouy replacements as some of the older steel ships would do during the day.

By the way I think I saw one of those steelcrafts going into Paugus Bay on the 14th of Oct.
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Old 11-01-2006, 12:45 PM   #33
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There really isn't a disagreement on my end. You where there I wasn't.

I'm just wondering if what you saw might have been the anchor light. The photos I've seen of the 41' boat on the forum aren't clear eough or close enough for me to spot a stern light.
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