bow numbers required?

gravy boat · 08-29-2010, 11:39 AM

Out of curiosity: is there. ever an acceptable reason to not have any reg/_bow numbers on a boat? Only ask as I am anchored next to a boat without any bow numbers.

Tks -- GB

Bear Islander · 08-29-2010, 12:04 PM

Does it have a motor?

I wonder if it is possible for a boat to be visiting from a different state, or even country, that does not require bow numbers?

tis · 08-29-2010, 12:11 PM

I think if it is 40' or over it doesn't need bow numbers.

Skip · 08-29-2010, 12:29 PM

Here are the exceptions by law:

270-E:9 Exemptions From Displaying Numbers. –
I. A vessel shall not be required to display a number under this chapter if it is:
(a) Covered by a certificate of numbers in full force and effect which has been issued to it pursuant to federal law or a federally approved numbering system of another state.
(b) A foreign vessel temporarily using waters subject to United States jurisdiction.
(c) A vessel owned, or demise chartered, and operated by the United States government, except a recreational-type public vessel; or a vessel whose owner is a state or subdivision thereof, which is used primarily for governmental purposes, and which is clearly identifiable as such.
(d) A vessel's lifeboat.
(e) A vessel which is documented by the United States Coast Guard or its federal agency successor.
(f) A vessel which is being operated under a temporary certificate.
(g) A nondocumented vessel used exclusively for racing events.
(h) A sailboat under 20 feet in length, or any vessel that is only powered by oars or paddles. Any vessel which has an inboard or outboard motor shall not be exempt from displaying a number except as otherwise provided in this section.
II. A vessel which is exempt from displaying a number but which is otherwise required to be registered in this state shall display a decal issued by the state.

Bear Islander · 08-29-2010, 12:53 PM

Wow, the things you find out when you read the law.

"or any vessel that is only powered by oars or paddles"

I have a human powered boat that has a propeller. I'm not sure a propeller qualifies as an oar or a paddle. A neighbor has one of those new kayaks that employ a small propeller that drops down below the water and is powered by bicycle type pedals. Do we need bow numbers?

Skip · 08-29-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Wow, the things you find out when you read the law.

"or any vessel that is only powered by oars or paddles"

I have a human powered boat that has a propeller. I'm not sure a propeller qualifies as an oar or a paddle. A neighbor has one of those new kayaks that employ a small propeller that drops down below the water and is powered by bicycle type pedals. Do we need bow numbers?

Ah, good question.

Now we delve into legislative intent, and the intent is that "human powered" boats be exempt.

Here is the applicable RSA:

270-E:4 Exemptions From Registration. – The following vessels shall be exempt from registration in this state:
I. Sailboats under 12 feet in length, rowboats and canoes powered by sail, oars, paddles, or other human power. Any vessel which has an inboard or outboard motor shall not be exempt from registration except as provided in paragraph II.
II. Vessels registered in another state or country temporarily using the waters of this state for not more than 30 consecutive days.
III. Vessels owned or operated by the United States government.

tis · 08-29-2010, 04:34 PM

Skip, can you explain why when we bought our 40' boat we were told we didn't need to display bow numbers? We did because we didn't think we needed the hassle in case some "new" MPs weren't aware of that rule.

VitaBene · 08-29-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Skip, can you explain why when we bought our 40' boat we were told we didn't need to display bow numbers? We did because we didn't think we needed the hassle in case some "new" MPs weren't aware of that rule.

Your boat was likely documented, meaning that the name is "known" to the USCG, etc so you do not need bow #s. The previous owner likely documented it. Was it named and you kept the name?

Skip · 08-29-2010, 04:42 PM

^^^^what vitabene said^^^^

Irrigation Guy · 08-29-2010, 04:43 PM

Many larger boats are federally documented and therefore not required to display bow numbers. On a boat without bow numbers you will always find a boat name and hailing port which is registered with the coast guard(basically their numbers). This method of registration would allow a boat to be recovered in a foreign country if it was stolen and brought there(it is basically a much stronger ownership position)
I brought my 32' boat here and used it without bow numbers or issues from the NHMP for one season before selling it.

EDIT: beat me to it too, but I added a few details.

When purchasing a documented vessel you would need to update the ownership info with the documentation office of the USCG or register it. It does cost a little more upfront but you don't need to register each year after that, you just return a form and they sent you a sticker which is affixed to your documentation certificate. That is how it was done up until '04 anyway.

tis · 08-29-2010, 05:03 PM

Nope, we bought it new from Irwin Marine.

RailroadJoe · 08-29-2010, 05:06 PM

Thanks, now I know why there were so many boats passing through the Weirs channel without bow numbers.

Irrigation Guy · 08-29-2010, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Nope, we bought it new from Irwin Marine.

I'm gonna guess a bank or finance company was involved and required it to be documented.

tis · 08-29-2010, 05:30 PM

Nope, wrong again. No loan.

Skip · 08-29-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Nope, wrong again. No loan.

You have me stumped.

There are only a handful of exemptions which you didn't appear to qualify for.

Let me see if I can understand this better.

When you bought the boat did you register it at that time and is that when the dealer said you didn't need to display your assigned bow numbers?

Did you buy the boat and go to a registrant and were told you didn't need to dispaly your assigned bow numbers?

Did you inquire of NHMP and were told, for whatever reason, you didn't have to display bow numbers?

I guess we need more detail of the registration process you followed after buying the boat and who exactly told you that you didn't need bow numbers.

Or is this a trick question....

I know...you're a lovely lady tis and everyone in Wolfie Town knows you...but you still had to register, correct?

tis · 08-29-2010, 06:28 PM

I honestly wish I could remember more but it was quite a while ago. I just remember being told that we did not need to display the bow numbers. I think it must have been the guys at Irwin. Yes, we still would have had to register it, I think maybe with the Coast Guard as was mentioned. But I clearly remember we did not need the bow numbers. (no trick question!

)

Skip · 08-29-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

I honestly wish I could remember more but it was quite a while ago. I just remember being told that we did not need to display the bow numbers. I think it must have been the guys at Irwin. Yes, we still would have had to register it, I think maybe with the Coast Guard as was mentioned. But I clearly remember we did not need the bow numbers. (no trick question!

)

OK..I'll be a gentleman and not ask you what "quite a while ago" means...

Most likely as Local Realtor and VitaBene have previously surmised, this was a case where the dealer wanted to document your vessel.

Boy you had us stumped out here for a bit tis....good excercise for the brain cells!

brk-lnt · 08-29-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

I honestly wish I could remember more but it was quite a while ago. I just remember being told that we did not need to display the bow numbers. I think it must have been the guys at Irwin. Yes, we still would have had to register it, I think maybe with the Coast Guard as was mentioned. But I clearly remember we did not need the bow numbers. (no trick question!

)

If it was a "documented" vessel you would have also needed to inscribe the documentation number on a (paraphrasing) "permanent/structural element of the boat in plain view (on the interior)".

RLW · 08-29-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Thanks, now I know why there were so many boats passing through the Weirs channel without bow numbers.

Yep, they were trying to beat the toll when they ran it.

jrc · 08-29-2010, 07:15 PM

From the USCG website. A documented boat cannot have state numbers. But NH still requires it to be registered and you must display the annual sticker.

Tis, if you're not documented and not displaying state numbers, you must be lucky.

WHAT IS VESSEL DOCUMENTATION?
Vessel documentation is a national form of registration. It is one of the oldest functions of Government, dating back to the 11th Act of the First Congress. Documentation provides conclusive evidence of nationality for international purposes, provides for unhindered commerce between the states, and admits vessels to certain restricted trades, such as coastwise trade and the fisheries. Since 1920, vessel financing has been enhanced through the availability of preferred mortgages on documented vessels.

WHAT VESSELS MAY BE DOCUMENTED?
A vessel must measure at least five net tons and, with the exception of certain oil spill response vessels, must be wholly owned by a citizen of the U.S.

HOW DO I KNOW IF MY VESSEL MEASURES FIVE NET TONS?
Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more. For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage Page.

HOW DO I MARK MY VESSEL?
The official number assigned to documented vessels, preceded by the abbreviation "NO." must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least three inches high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.

The name and hailing port of a recreational vessel must be marked together on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. The vessel name of a commercial vessel must also be marked on the port and starboard bow and the vessel name and the hailing port must also be marked on the stern. All markings may be made by any means and materials that result in durable markings and must be at least four inches in height, made in clearly legible letters of the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numerals. The "hailing port" must include both a place and a State, Territory, or possession of in the United States. The state may be abbreviated.

IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL EXEMPT FROM STATE JURISDICTION?
No, all documented vessels must comply with the laws of the state in which they are operated. The vessel's document must be shown to state law enforcement personnel upon their demand. States may require documented vessels to be registered (but not numbered) and to display state decals showing that they have complied with state requirements

ApS · 08-30-2010, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Nope, we bought it new from Irwin Marine.

But it does have a name on it—I saw that boat out yesterday!

Perhaps you're lucky and Irwin Marine had registered it in your behalf?

'Looks like you'll still need a sticker—ya got one?

tis · 08-30-2010, 06:27 AM

JRC, if you read my post #7 you will see I said we DID choose to display the numbers and yes, I believe we had to have the sticker anyway. We decided that it might be a hassle on this lake with no bow numbers. So we do have the bow numbers and stickers. And yes, we did register it when it first went in the water.

I don't think Irwin was any way encouraging us to document the vessel, just telling us that we had a choice.

Yes Acres, you did see us yesterday.

NoRegrets · 08-30-2010, 06:57 AM

We bought our boat 10 years ago from Irwin. No loan but my wife did have it registered or documented if you may. We got a wooden board with the assigned numbers engraved into it. This is keep in the bilge. The document is stored in a pouch in the electrical panel, and I put numbers on the bow even though I did not need to. I did not feel like I wanted to stick out. I have 2 friends that did the same and did not install bow numbers. They have never been challenged by the MP.

jrc · 08-30-2010, 09:24 AM

Sorry Tis, didn't read your post close enough.

NoRegrets, technically you are not supposed to have state numbers on a USCG documented boat. But since the USCG doesn't patrol Winnipesaukee, and all the MP cares about is NH laws, no one should ever bother you.

If you ever go on USCG waters, you might want to remove the NH numbers.

Taz · 09-02-2010, 09:38 PM

I am sure the boat was documented with the Coast Guard and bow numbers are not required. However, the boat still needs a registration sticker and if your vessel is documented it is required to have a name and a port registered with the Coast Guard and that name and port are required to be displayed on the stern of the boat.

There are some lien holders who require documentation with the Coast Guard as a condition for obtaining financing.

08-29-2010, 11:39 AM	#1
gravy boat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Gilford year round, West Alton summers Posts: 582 Thanks: 580 Thanked 194 Times in 99 Posts	bow numbers required? Out of curiosity: is there. ever an acceptable reason to not have any reg/_bow numbers on a boat? Only ask as I am anchored next to a boat without any bow numbers. Tks -- GB

08-29-2010, 12:29 PM	#4
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Exceptions...always exceptions! Here are the exceptions by law: 270-E:9 Exemptions From Displaying Numbers. – I. A vessel shall not be required to display a number under this chapter if it is: (a) Covered by a certificate of numbers in full force and effect which has been issued to it pursuant to federal law or a federally approved numbering system of another state. (b) A foreign vessel temporarily using waters subject to United States jurisdiction. (c) A vessel owned, or demise chartered, and operated by the United States government, except a recreational-type public vessel; or a vessel whose owner is a state or subdivision thereof, which is used primarily for governmental purposes, and which is clearly identifiable as such. (d) A vessel's lifeboat. (e) A vessel which is documented by the United States Coast Guard or its federal agency successor. (f) A vessel which is being operated under a temporary certificate. (g) A nondocumented vessel used exclusively for racing events. (h) A sailboat under 20 feet in length, or any vessel that is only powered by oars or paddles. Any vessel which has an inboard or outboard motor shall not be exempt from displaying a number except as otherwise provided in this section. II. A vessel which is exempt from displaying a number but which is otherwise required to be registered in this state shall display a decal issued by the state.

08-29-2010, 04:42 PM	#9
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Vitabene beat me to it.... ^^^^what vitabene said^^^^

09-02-2010, 09:38 PM	#25
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 345 Thanks: 3 Thanked 68 Times in 46 Posts	Documented I am sure the boat was documented with the Coast Guard and bow numbers are not required. However, the boat still needs a registration sticker and if your vessel is documented it is required to have a name and a port registered with the Coast Guard and that name and port are required to be displayed on the stern of the boat. There are some lien holders who require documentation with the Coast Guard as a condition for obtaining financing.

08-29-2010, 12:04 PM	#2
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,757 Thanks: 31 Thanked 429 Times in 203 Posts	Does it have a motor? I wonder if it is possible for a boat to be visiting from a different state, or even country, that does not require bow numbers?

08-29-2010, 12:11 PM	#3
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,408 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,381 Times in 957 Posts	I think if it is 40' or over it doesn't need bow numbers.

08-29-2010, 12:53 PM	#5
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,757 Thanks: 31 Thanked 429 Times in 203 Posts	Wow, the things you find out when you read the law. "or any vessel that is only powered by oars or paddles" I have a human powered boat that has a propeller. I'm not sure a propeller qualifies as an oar or a paddle. A neighbor has one of those new kayaks that employ a small propeller that drops down below the water and is powered by bicycle type pedals. Do we need bow numbers?

08-29-2010, 04:34 PM	#7
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,408 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,381 Times in 957 Posts	Skip, can you explain why when we bought our 40' boat we were told we didn't need to display bow numbers? We did because we didn't think we needed the hassle in case some "new" MPs weren't aware of that rule.

08-29-2010, 04:43 PM	#10
Irrigation Guy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 484 Thanks: 89 Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts	Many larger boats are federally documented and therefore not required to display bow numbers. On a boat without bow numbers you will always find a boat name and hailing port which is registered with the coast guard(basically their numbers). This method of registration would allow a boat to be recovered in a foreign country if it was stolen and brought there(it is basically a much stronger ownership position) I brought my 32' boat here and used it without bow numbers or issues from the NHMP for one season before selling it. EDIT: beat me to it too, but I added a few details. When purchasing a documented vessel you would need to update the ownership info with the documentation office of the USCG or register it. It does cost a little more upfront but you don't need to register each year after that, you just return a form and they sent you a sticker which is affixed to your documentation certificate. That is how it was done up until '04 anyway.

08-29-2010, 05:03 PM	#11
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,408 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,381 Times in 957 Posts	Nope, we bought it new from Irwin Marine.

08-29-2010, 05:06 PM	#12
RailroadJoe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 620 Thanks: 259 Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts	Thanks, now I know why there were so many boats passing through the Weirs channel without bow numbers.

08-29-2010, 05:30 PM	#14
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,408 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,381 Times in 957 Posts	Nope, wrong again. No loan.

The Following User Says Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
Irrigation Guy (08-29-2010)

08-29-2010, 06:28 PM	#16
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,408 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,381 Times in 957 Posts	I honestly wish I could remember more but it was quite a while ago. I just remember being told that we did not need to display the bow numbers. I think it must have been the guys at Irwin. Yes, we still would have had to register it, I think maybe with the Coast Guard as was mentioned. But I clearly remember we did not need the bow numbers. (no trick question! )

The Following User Says Thank You to RLW For This Useful Post:
GTO (08-30-2010)

08-29-2010, 07:15 PM	#20
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	From the USCG website. A documented boat cannot have state numbers. But NH still requires it to be registered and you must display the annual sticker. Tis, if you're not documented and not displaying state numbers, you must be lucky. WHAT IS VESSEL DOCUMENTATION? Vessel documentation is a national form of registration. It is one of the oldest functions of Government, dating back to the 11th Act of the First Congress. Documentation provides conclusive evidence of nationality for international purposes, provides for unhindered commerce between the states, and admits vessels to certain restricted trades, such as coastwise trade and the fisheries. Since 1920, vessel financing has been enhanced through the availability of preferred mortgages on documented vessels. WHAT VESSELS MAY BE DOCUMENTED? A vessel must measure at least five net tons and, with the exception of certain oil spill response vessels, must be wholly owned by a citizen of the U.S. HOW DO I KNOW IF MY VESSEL MEASURES FIVE NET TONS? Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more. For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage Page. HOW DO I MARK MY VESSEL? The official number assigned to documented vessels, preceded by the abbreviation "NO." must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least three inches high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area. The name and hailing port of a recreational vessel must be marked together on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. The vessel name of a commercial vessel must also be marked on the port and starboard bow and the vessel name and the hailing port must also be marked on the stern. All markings may be made by any means and materials that result in durable markings and must be at least four inches in height, made in clearly legible letters of the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numerals. The "hailing port" must include both a place and a State, Territory, or possession of in the United States. The state may be abbreviated. IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL EXEMPT FROM STATE JURISDICTION? No, all documented vessels must comply with the laws of the state in which they are operated. The vessel's document must be shown to state law enforcement personnel upon their demand. States may require documented vessels to be registered (but not numbered) and to display state decals showing that they have complied with state requirements

08-30-2010, 06:27 AM	#22
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,408 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,381 Times in 957 Posts	JRC, if you read my post #7 you will see I said we DID choose to display the numbers and yes, I believe we had to have the sticker anyway. We decided that it might be a hassle on this lake with no bow numbers. So we do have the bow numbers and stickers. And yes, we did register it when it first went in the water. I don't think Irwin was any way encouraging us to document the vessel, just telling us that we had a choice. Yes Acres, you did see us yesterday.

08-30-2010, 06:57 AM	#23
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	We bought our boat 10 years ago from Irwin. No loan but my wife did have it registered or documented if you may. We got a wooden board with the assigned numbers engraved into it. This is keep in the bilge. The document is stored in a pouch in the electrical panel, and I put numbers on the bow even though I did not need to. I did not feel like I wanted to stick out. I have 2 friends that did the same and did not install bow numbers. They have never been challenged by the MP.

08-30-2010, 09:24 AM	#24
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Sorry Tis, didn't read your post close enough. NoRegrets, technically you are not supposed to have state numbers on a USCG documented boat. But since the USCG doesn't patrol Winnipesaukee, and all the MP cares about is NH laws, no one should ever bother you. If you ever go on USCG waters, you might want to remove the NH numbers.