a SIGN of things to come.... Braun Bay

[Woodsy]

Got this from a buddy of mine yesterday! Kinda sad really!

Woodsy

[caloway]

I'm marginally ok with them placing a sign. But geez, you'd think they could put the thing in professionally!

[knowit]

They felt the need to ruin a beautiful landscape by the erecting of a billboard in the middle of the sandbar? Who could be so stupid to allow this?

What's next? A traffic signal in the Weirs Channel?

I am just glad I rememeber this lake before we needed all these rules to protect us from ourselves.

[VtSteve]

I am just glad I rememeber this lake before we needed all these rules to protect us from ourselves.

The very same feeling I had. We have several islands owned by the public that can be used for camping, both rustic, and some with full campsites and facilities. Many places to travel to and raft, enjoy the entire lake. There's the occasional problem with locals not wanting any marina expansion, a town beach that was opened up to land traffic, and the usual boaters versus non-boater issues developed, but it was rectified and all can cohabitate there now.

Winni is a publicly owned lake that many want managed as a private association. A well-managed public treasure doesn't have to be none of this and none of that.

[birchhaven]

I hope the got a wetlands permit for that!

[sa meredith]

Is this sign indeed in Braun Bay, or a photo of a sign from another lake...as in, "this is what we are in for, eventually."

If it is in Braun Bay, whose 11 year old kids did they hire to install it?

[jrc]

Wow,

I hope it's a hoax, by that I mean placed by someone other than the MP

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by jrc

Wow,

I hope it's a hoax, by that I mean placed by someone other than the MP

I doubt this is a hoax, I was over there Moday, and saw the MP work barge and the RIB over in that area.... I was wondering what they were up too..... I didn't go over to investigate as I had young children aboard and didn't want to risk an altercation.....
I guess now I know........

[sa meredith]

So......they stuck a metal sign in the lake, which is bad enough, but decided to mount it off center, leaning to one side, and use two supports of unequal length??!!

[knowit]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

So......they stuck a metal sign in the lake, which is bad enough, but decided to mount it off center, leaning to one side, and use to supports of unequal length??!!

Marine Patrol did it , remember. We are not talking skilled engineers here. College kids on break.

[NoRegrets]

It is certainly a great place for appealing graffiti.

[VtSteve]

It's a sad commentary on the state of the lake I think. A tremendous amount of anchored boats here are larger sailboats or cruisers, many that have dinghies so they can go to the beach, the city, whatever. On any given weekend, there are many go fasts, bowriders, large cruisers, whatever, rafting or beached or at anchor in many a different bay. In the old days we'd say (nicely) that someone needs to get l@!d or get the pole out of their @ $E.

God only knows what the powers that be will get annoyed at next.

[4Fun]

That sign would look killer in my game room

[Rinkerfam]

That sign would explain why Patrician Shores became a little uncomfortable Sun. afternoon. We stopped going to Braun Bay a few years back. I am all for live and let live, so don't blast me for this, but Braun Bay and Patrician Shores have historically attracted different boating demographics.

[knowit]

Where exactly is Patrician Shores. I was going to go over there after hitting Braun Bay last week but I could not find it on the Bizer. I really wanted to see it.

[VtSteve]

I remember Patrician Shores from way back when. Not bad prices from what I see. How's the tap water there now? It's not too far up from Meredith on the way to Center Harbor. My cousin years and years ago attended the seminary up near there. Nice location.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

This is sad.

[Seeker]

Why do they have a right to put an ugly sign like that in OUR (the residents of NH) lake? I think it just plain sux. Have them put it on one of the complaining property owners' land if it's even legal.

[BroadHopper]

When I was told twice by the MP to leave because I was too close too the neighboring boats. I was there first and it's the other boats that came too close to me! After telling the MPO that, I still had to leave. I don't know why they singled me out. I only have a 22' boat with grandkids.

[Rinkerfam]

I was talking about the shallow sandy area that actually lies between Patrician Shores and Farrar Point. I wasn't actually talking about the property at Patrician Shores. Sorry for the confusion.

[Winnicandle]

A surprise? hardly.....half the posters on this forum crave more Government control in every aspect of their lives, including recreation.

Someone has to protect us from ourselves.

Change.

Yes we can.

[Tank151]

This is pretty sad. Watch shorthly, they'll be similar signs posted all over the lake! If the MP did place this sign, they should remove it PDQ. If a resident posted it, they should be issued a fine.

Tank

[AC2717]

Is there anyway to confirm that MP put this sign in there, and two, that it is legal to post a sign in the water, no Joke here I would think that a preservation group or even the shoreline protection act might say differently, we need some of our good law versed forum members to do some deligence on this to 1 see how it got there in the first place, who requested it, as the charts already tell you this, and again if it is even legal to just go and plop a sign in the water, cause if that is the case guess what you are going to see all around the lake,

I think we should get a honest to goodness petition going to have this signed removed, a sign that is one hidious and also ruining the scenery of the lake

[Scupper]

Tomorrow an even bigger sign will appear announcing that this project was a result of stimulus money

[Lake Fan]

Originally Posted by Winnicandle

A surprise? hardly.....half the posters on this forum crave more Government control in every aspect of their lives, including recreation.

Someone has to protect us from ourselves.

Change.

Yes we can.

Couldn't agree more. And who are the rocket scientists who decided that all these "magical" numbers, setbacks, separation distances, etc. are the be-all and end-all to a safe boating experience? You shouldn't need a calculator to figure out if you're okay near another boat anchored in Braun Bay.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

It was probably put up using "stimulus money"

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

Couldn't agree more. And who are the rocket scientists who decided that all these "magical" numbers, setbacks, separation distances, etc. are the be-all and end-all to a safe boating experience? You shouldn't need a calculator to figure out if you're okay near another boat anchored in Braun Bay.

I think you are right, there are no laws in the books saying you have to be 25 feet away from another boat correct? Nor that you have to be 75 feet from shore, rule is if you are still in the water you are in a public area, this discussion has happened many times in this forum with lakeside residents and boaters and island owners,

Now I know this sign is not legal, this issue has been raised, discussed and proven many times
Can someone contact MP and tell them this sign is illegal or a state Rep,
me down here in MA will just have it fall on deaf ears

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

I'm wondering why they felt the NEED to put up a sign like that; what was the reasoning? Unbelievable!!!

[Seaplane Pilot]

What's next - speed limit signs in the Broads?

Pathetic.

[caloway]

Nobody puts up a sign like that unless enough people bitch. Nobody bitches unless they're sufficiently bothered.

I was there last weekend. Apart from the just plain rudeness from people who think they don't need to come off plane until their anchor is in the water, there were: People taking their dog up to shore to take a dump. People smoking up (Their DD must have been underneath taking a nap). Some dude spraying his whole boat with a cleaner and cleaning it in the water (seriously!?!?). A few loud pipes, music, etc.

We're out there to have fun and not be anal, but nobody wants to live near a trailer park. If we can police ourselves a little more, the neighbors will be less likely to do it for us.

On the plus side, the bay is getting a nice chemical slick--which probably cuts down on the bacteria!

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

What's next - speed limit signs in the Broads?

Pathetic.

Don't be surprised....

[John A. Birdsall]

I think that they should put a one way only sign up at the entry to Paugus Bay. Only can go into Paugus Bay. Now that would be cute.

What about a No Passing sign East of Rattlesnake Island.

[LakeSnake]

This is realy getting out of hand. Talk about scarring up the landscape for the interest of a select group. Makes me think of that song "Sign Sign Everywhere a sign...

I would rather see the money it cost to create and then pay wichever one of the three stoggers put the thing up go to enforcing the laws we already have.

[gravy boat]

Caloway,

We were there Friday through Sunday...1/2 day Friday, from 830 to 6 pm Saturday, most of Sunday and sent elsewhere on Sunday. You must have been near us as I saw two boats washing, several folks taking their dogs on shore (near the big rock, more toward the southern end of the boating area). We prefer to stay on the "upstream" side of the sandbar, mostly because the water isn't as warm, if you know what I mean.

Our girls love the place as they can play for hours with the frisbeen, snorkel, etc. But again, we stay a bit on the upstream side where it's a little less crowded.


GB

[meredith weekender]

Its funny that money $$$$ can be spent on stupid signage but the lights on the Governors Island Bridge cannot be fixed or the markers and buoys that are missing since spring cannot be replaced. Obviously safety is not priority number one but harrassing people is.

[robmac]

We were there on Sunday from 9 till 6. One of the worst Bonehead moves was Marine Patrol catch an anchor line and looking like how'd that happen.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by caloway

I was there last weekend. Apart from the just plain rudeness from people who think they don't need to come off plane until their anchor is in the water, there were: People taking their dog up to shore to take a dump. People smoking up (Their DD must have been underneath taking a nap). Some dude spraying his whole boat with a cleaner and cleaning it in the water (seriously!?!?). A few loud pipes, music, etc.

To RinkerFam's point earlier -- it looks as though these Refugee's of Braun are now setting up shop at Patrician Shores. And it's a tragedy.

My last two week-end experiances have led me to unfortunately keep the family away from this area where we have gone religiously and loved for nearly 15 years. It has always been a great FAMILY spot to meet good friends, have fun, and yet maintain a certain level of "boaters etiquette". Never (since leaving Braun Bay nearly 20 years ago) have I ever seen so many inconsiderate boaters in place as I have over the past couple of week-ends. The volleyball nets have arrived, the idea of three or more racks / lines of anchored boats --- There is nothing worse than being at the a sand bar only to find 4-5 "cruisers" decide to set up shop rafting right in front of you!! Hello -- there's plenty of waterfront!! BTW don't even think about setting anchor on/over/or near my front anchor line!!.

We had one pontoon boat actually "walk" his boat in and proceeded to "drop anchor" four (4) feet from our swim platform (when he dropped the mushroom anchor he actually splshed the family sitting on the rear sundeck). To top it off, someone on this potoon boat of roughly 10 people had a dog (retriever I think) which over the course of the next hour barked incessantly at my two Grandgirls as they sat on our swimplatform. Add to that the "spud gun" loud music, etc etc --

If your a long time fan of the area and been there recently you know exactly what I'm referring to ....... unfortunately people bring MP action upon themselves by their behavior...... I suspect within the next season or two this will become the Lakes next No Rafting Zone ----- It truely is a travesty!

and I'm sure I'll take a lot of bashing for this post

[Woodsy]

Phantom...

I am certainly not going to bash you....

Patrician is definitely getting a bit more crowded. Its the unintended consequences of "No Rafting Zones" on the lake. This year the NHMP have decided to target the NRZ as the regulation to enforce.... 2 guys on jetskis and one patrol boat swoop into Braun Bay (and West Alton) and start writing tickets! Kind of a waste of resources, but the wealthy land owners across the bay have obviously decided to force the issue!

I personally dont care if there is 1 row or 3 rows of boats as long as nobody is bumping... the lake belongs to everyone! I dont get too twisted if someone parks over my anchor line, its easy enough to politely ask them to move when I go to leave. I find it to be ALOT less stressful if you greet people with a nice hello and offer to lend a hand positioning thier boat.... that way you can kind of "help" put the anchor someplace a little further away. Its everyones lake, and a little courtesy and a lot less me me me go along way to making the lake even more enjoyable!


Woodsy

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

if you greet people with a nice hello and offer to lend a hand positioning thier boat.... that way you can kind of "help" put the anchor someplace a little further away. Its everyones lake, and a little courtesy and a lot less me me me go along way to making the lake even more enjoyable!

Woodsy -- I do not disagree with much of what you've said ....... I am typicaly (much to my wife's chagrin-- who claims I'd talk to a dead cat on the side of the road of it would listen) the first one off the sundeck to help another fellow boater get situated. What I'm referring to is packing boats in like sardines. And I'm sorry -- when a group of 30+ footers set their front anchors and back in over a line of bow anchor lines and set up their rafting line -- I find that just plain RUDE!

and I fully appreciate the fact that it is a result of stepped up enforcement in othr areas ............... until now Patrician has NEVER caught the eye of MP (and with good cause).... Now I feel it is their most likely next spot!!

Spud guns, jet ski's ripping around ...... it's bound to happen...... and like I said it will be a travesty.

[BroadHopper]

I was over at lake Winnisquam Tuesday. The public launch ramp is fantastic! The sand bar next to the bridge was not crowded and my grandkids had a great time. Not one MPO visit. In fact I didn't see one MPO all day! Everyone is very friendly. Reminds me of Braun Bay ten years ago. Everyone was talking about all the s**t that is happening on Winnipesaukee. Speed limits, Ames Farm being close, rafting limitations etc. People say Winni folks are doing it to themselves and I'm afraid they are partly right. They are glad they have their own little world and they tend to keep it that way. I get the same sentiments from Newfound folks and Sunapee folks.

It's sad.

[knowit]

What is a spud gun?

[4Fun]

Potato gun. The center of a redneck BBQ. PVC Pipe, lighter fluid, and potatoes. Properly set up you can shoot them a good 300-500'

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by knowit

What is a spud gun?

http://www.spudtech.com/

From the above ....

" So you want to know just what the heck is a spudgun....

Well you have come to the right place. Spudguns, first of all, are also known by many other names; perhaps you have heard of some of them:

Spudgun (duh!)
Potato Gun (almost duh)
Potato Cannon
Spudzooka
Spudchucker
Potato Launcher
Potato Entertainment Device
Novelty Potato Instrument
Starch Resource Deployment Facilitator (has engineering comic root)

So with all these names, how is one to decide how to go about addressing this subject now. I used to shy away from the 'gun' connotation, as these days that can carry stigma. So potato launcher or such was 'safe.' Now you could probably find the word spudgun in a modern dictionary (added it to your Word Spellchecker yet?)

A SPUDGUN is a simple device made usually from plastic water pipe, designed to launch/shoot/lob a potato or similar object a long way, farther than you could probably throw it, to distances exceeding 300 yards. This maximum range is highly debatable, but in this context (and the entire site, unless otherwise noted) the projectile will be a run-o-the-mill POTATO, non frozen, no chemical modification, and no densification via foreign objects. To shoot such potato any greater distance would require a 'super potato' given that a potato is inherently a LOUSY projectile, as its density is rather low. High muzzle velocities are easily obtained but they sure slow down in a hurry!

The Spudgun Technology Center is now in its eleventh year on the Internet. Starting out as a small single page University-Server served informational article, it has evolved into the premier spudgun site on the internet! Lots of great information and new stuff arriving all the time. I am working on some very interesting projects....check back often!

For more information about spudguns be sure you check out the rest of this informative site and let me know of any questions that may arise. "

[knowit]

Why on earth would anyone have one of these on boat?

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by knowit

Why on earth would anyone have one of these on boat?

To soften up the inhabitants of Cow I prior to the amphibious assault, of course.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by knowit

Why on earth would anyone have one of these on boat?

To deal with Captain Boneheads when the MP's are not around........

[tis]

Oh no, not again you guys!

[Winnicandle]

Originally Posted by knowit

Why on earth would anyone have one of these on boat?

Because one can.

[knowit]

Ok, sorry for taking this off topic ( and to Arkansas)

I am putting my Rebel flag away and hoisting my MP flag with the red circle with a line through it. (Visualize it)

One of the things about Braun Bay that has always bothered me a bit is what do people without Marine Heads or porta potties do while they are camped in the bay all day? I really don't want to think about it, but I suppose we must. I wonder if any water quality tests have ever been done there after a busy weekend. Just food for thought.

PS I think that sign would would look nice rimmed with some pyrotechnic devices. Of course the legal kind you can buy in Tilton at exit 20.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Is it just me or is their a way to combine the two topics?

[knowit]

Nice!

But I believe your two center shots are less than 25 inches apart. I think MP may make you move them to comply.

[Ropetow]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

To soften up the inhabitants of Cow I prior to the amphibious assault, of course.

Or, to feed the inhabitants. Let's see...we can bombard them with hot dogs as the main course, potatos as the side, water (via balloons) as the drink. Of course, with some creativity we could also launch some veggies, other beverages (to lower their resistance) and even ice cream (very well-frozen) for dessert. Hopefully, nobody will request watermelon....

[KTO]

Originally Posted by meredith weekender

Its funny that money $$$$ can be spent on stupid signage but the lights on the Governors Island Bridge cannot be fixed or the markers and buoys that are missing since spring cannot be replaced. Obviously safety is not priority number one but harrassing people is.

Actually, I've called MP on two occasions this summer to report a single missing marker and a few weeks later to report four missing markers. Each time, they came within 24 hours to replace them. I was actually IMPRESSED by how quick it took them. :P

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

To soften up the inhabitants of Cow I prior to the amphibious assault, of course.

NEVER!!!!! HA HA HA. I'm actually considering mounting a sign in the channel near my house warning people of hot dog shrapnel.

[travaler18]

We were on lake mead in nv. for a beautful week of houseboating .All of the lake is surrounded by national park so absolutly no shorefront property.You find a spot you like and claim it for as long as you like,as many boats as you like .It was awesome !!!!-------------MABE WE SHOULD DROP THE WATER LEVEL 4 FT AND CLAIM ALL THE NEW EXPOSED LAND AS NATIONAL PARKLAND FOR ALL TO USE!!!!!! NO MORE PRIVATE LAKEFRONT PROPERTY

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by travaler18

We were on lake mead in nv. for a beautful week of houseboating .All of the lake is surrounded by national park so absolutly no shorefront property.You find a spot you like and claim it for as long as you like,as many boats as you like .It was awesome !!!!-------------MABE WE SHOULD DROP THE WATER LEVEL 4 FT AND CLAIM ALL THE NEW EXPOSED LAND AS NATIONAL PARKLAND FOR ALL TO USE!!!!!! NO MORE PRIVATE LAKEFRONT PROPERTY

Get rid of the dam and let nature run her course!

[winnidiver]

I read this thread with a lot of interest. First off after seeing the sign I want to head over there and anchor, because it IS public water.
That being said I can't understand why anyone would want to go to Braun Bay on a weekend in the first place. When I go out with my family or by myself, I try to find a nice quiet spot to anchor swim, and sun. Maybe picnic. I have no desire to park myself in the middle of a crowd of people. I always look forward to sept. when I get the lake without the crowds.
It's a big lake so why crowd yourselves into one little spot? I guess I don't understand the tourist mentality.
Why don't you guys go and explore the lake find all those great places that only a few people go to. You might find a whole new side to the lake experience.
Of course if you do this the Ice Cream barge may not find you.

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by winnidiver

I read this thread with a lot of interest. First off after seeing the sign I want to head over there and anchor, because it IS public water.
That being said I can't understand why anyone would want to go to Braun Bay on a weekend in the first place. When I go out with my family or by myself, I try to find a nice quiet spot to anchor swim, and sun. Maybe picnic. I have no desire to park myself in the middle of a crowd of people. I always look forward to sept. when I get the lake without the crowds.
It's a big lake so why crowd yourselves into one little spot? I guess I don't understand the tourist mentality.
Why don't you guys go and explore the lake find all those great places that only a few people go to. You might find a whole new side to the lake experience.
Of course if you do this the Ice Cream barge may not find you.

I suspect the people that crowd in to Braun like the congestion. Many are looking for the party atmosphere. Not out of control party, just a group getting together for fun. I admit I enjoyed it 10 years ago.

Personally, now I do not like crowds so I head to an area that is quiet. I do wish there were more sandy bottom places for my kids to enjoy though.

[winnidiver]

Out in front of Blueberry is nice and sandy. Also the beach at Long Island is accessible by boat,lots of sand.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

I suspect the people that crowd in to Braun like the congestion. Many are looking for the party atmosphere. Not out of control party, just a group getting together for fun. I admit I enjoyed it 10 years ago.

Personally, now I do not like crowds so I head to an area that is quiet. I do wish there were more sandy bottom places for my kids to enjoy though.

We tend to go there when there won't be big crowds, and leave when it gets crowded. My kids and my guest's kids love the soft sand, shallow water, and lack of wakes there. We anchor at the far end and are often the northernmost boat on the sandbar. We often meet up with friends in other boats, and could be considered part of the "problem" when it comes to crowds there, a couple of times per year. We don't hang out with a party crowd, drink much, play drinking games, or listen to loud music, but the kids can get a little loud with their horseplay sometimes.


If you've never snorkeled in the weed bed at the very end of the bay, in late August, you should give it a try. The whole area is packed with schools consisting of thousands of smaller fish (mostly young yellow perch and blue gills) in the gaps between the weed thickets, and the weed thickets are swarming with larger predatory fish (bass and chain pickerel) looking for a stray smaller fish to make a meal of. It's like visiting an aquarium only a lot wetter.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Phantom

To RinkerFam's point earlier -- it looks as though these Refugee's of Braun are now setting up shop at Patrician Shores. And it's a tragedy.

My last two week-end experiences have led me to unfortunately keep the family away from this area where we have gone religiously and loved for nearly 15 years. It has always been a great FAMILY spot to meet good friends, have fun, and yet maintain a certain level of "boaters etiquette". Never (since leaving Braun Bay nearly 20 years ago) have I ever seen so many inconsiderate boaters in place as I have over the past couple of week-ends. The volleyball nets have arrived, the idea of three or more racks / lines of anchored boats --- There is nothing worse than being at the a sand bar only to find 4-5 "cruisers" decide to set up shop rafting right in front of you!! Hello -- there's plenty of waterfront!! BTW don't even think about setting anchor on/over/or near my front anchor line!!.

We had one pontoon boat actually "walk" his boat in and proceeded to "drop anchor" four (4) feet from our swim platform (when he dropped the mushroom anchor he actually splashed the family sitting on the rear sundeck). To top it off, someone on this pontoon boat of roughly 10 people had a dog (retriever I think) which over the course of the next hour barked incessantly at my two Grandgirls as they sat on our swim platform. Add to that the "spud gun" loud music, etc etc --

If your a long time fan of the area and been there recently you know exactly what I'm referring to ....... unfortunately people bring MP action upon themselves by their behavior...... I suspect within the next season or two this will become the Lakes next No Rafting Zone ----- It truly is a travesty!

and I'm sure I'll take a lot of bashing for this post

I counted 43 boats there a couple of Saturdays ago. A total zoo! Oh and where do the people that don't have porta potties on their boats go to the bathroom? Go a few feet into the woods there and you'll find out. Its always nice to be taking a walk and see the pile of toilet paper behind the tree. Of course, I'm sure when parents are taking their young ones on a nature hike, it should be easy enough to explain to them what that tampon is inside the sandwich bag. Yes, its there! And someone mentioned the music coming from boat(s). I heard one of the boats from the other side of the bay..Don't get me wrong, I was a DJ for 6 years and love music but I don't need to listen to yours. This isn't the Naswa! Not only that...but your choice of disco music really sucks. Ok, now go for a snorkel in the nice warm waters of the cove. Go on a scavenger hunt for a few beer bottles, plenty of red plastic cups...and my favorite....the pile of chicken bones on the bottom. Oh but wait, I do want to thank the person that must of accidentally dropped their $200 pair of Maui Jim sun glasses overboard. I look great in them now. I believe that whole lot of land there is owned by the Danes. I'm sure they would love to see what their land was being used for. Idiots like this are why there are no rafting zones.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by GTO

Idiots like this are why there are no rafting zones.

Summed it up pretty well GTO. It's really sad..

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by GTO

Go a few feet into the woods there and you'll find out. Its always nice to be taking a walk and see the pile of toilet paper behind the tree. Of course, I'm sure when parents are taking their young ones on a nature hike, it should be easy enough to explain to them what that tampon is inside the sandwich bag. Yes, its there! .

I agree with the spirit of your post but for you to see what was onshore,you clearly violated the no-rafting zone rules in Braun.You are not in any way supposed to set foot on that property.As you stated,this is why property owners fight for no rafting zones.Glass houses...

[BroadHopper]

The shore along the Winnisquam sand bar is populated. So it will be hard to 'do your duty' on the shore. Maybe that is why Winnisquam is 'free from harrassment'.

Maybe they should change the rulings from no rafting to 'No duty zones'!

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I agree with the spirit of your post but for you to see what was onshore,you clearly violated the no-rafting zone rules in Braun.You are not in any way supposed to set foot on that property.As you stated,this is why property owners fight for no rafting zones.Glass houses...

As you can see by the post that was quoted, GTO's post was not referring to Braun Bay, it was referring to Patrician Shores. That area has a walking path from the association next door. So, my guess is that GTO was not rafting at all, but taking a nature walk. I've taken that same walk myself and seen many of the same things. I missed the Maui Jim's though

[GTO]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I agree with the spirit of your post but for you to see what was onshore,you clearly violated the no-rafting zone rules in Braun.You are not in any way supposed to set foot on that property.As you stated,this is why property owners fight for no rafting zones.Glass houses...

But no where in my post did I say I was rafting or I even arrived by boat. As a matter of fact, I am a nearby resident that takes daily walks through the woods every day.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I agree with the spirit of your post but for you to see what was onshore,you clearly violated the no-rafting zone rules in Braun.You are not in any way supposed to set foot on that property.As you stated,this is why property owners fight for no rafting zones.Glass houses...

Are there no tresspassing signs on the land behind the sandbar in Braun Bay? I don't remember seeing any but I never really looked.

No rafting zones don't stop you from going on shore. Obviously littering, especially human waste on shore is illegal and just plain gross, but just setting foot on shore is not covered by any boating rules.

[gravy boat]

Hubby and I were sans girlies this weekend so we checked out Braun Bay yeserday (Sunday). Was much more mellow that in recent weekends -- a sure sign of the approaching Fall.

There were several boats with dogs -- most were small in size (Terrier, Pugs, etc.). I saw at least two owners walk their dogs to shore to let them do their business.

I guess it beats letting them go on your boat or in the water, but why wouldn't you leave the dogs home? We leave our dogs home and either stop home mid-day or pay for someone to walk them mid-day.

[SIKSUKR]

My apologies GTO.Did not see that you were refering to Patrician Shores.I don't know why I believe this but I'm pretty sure you are not allowed to be on the shore in Braun Bay.

[changeofplans]

GTO,

I sent a PM to you, not sure if you got it. I was at Patrician a couple Saturdays ago with family and friends (4 boats total) the kids playing having a great time snorkling etc.. until one of the kids lost a snorkel and I handed my Maui's to someone on the boat so I could look for the snorkel in the chest deep water. Long story short my Maui's didn't make it into the boat and the bottom was too stirred up at the time to see them. The model is Kahuna 162-02 they are gun metal gray with light and dark gray kind of Camo frame. If these are the ones you found I love to swap some $$$ for them.

Thanks

[RTTOOL]

Originally Posted by gto

i counted 43 boats there a couple of saturdays ago. A total zoo! Oh and where do the people that don't have porta potties on their boats go to the bathroom? Go a few feet into the woods there and you'll find out. Its always nice to be taking a walk and see the pile of toilet paper behind the tree. Of course, i'm sure when parents are taking their young ones on a nature hike, it should be easy enough to explain to them what that tampon is inside the sandwich bag. Yes, its there! And someone mentioned the music coming from boat(s). I heard one of the boats from the other side of the bay..don't get me wrong, i was a dj for 6 years and love music but i don't need to listen to yours. This isn't the naswa! Not only that...but your choice of disco music really sucks. Ok, now go for a snorkel in the nice warm waters of the cove. Go on a scavenger hunt for a few beer bottles, plenty of red plastic cups...and my favorite....the pile of chicken bones on the bottom. Oh but wait, i do want to thank the person that must of accidentally dropped their $200 pair of maui jim sun glasses overboard. I look great in them now. I believe that whole lot of land there is owned by the danes. I'm sure they would love to see what their land was being used for. Idiots like this are why there are no rafting zones.

hey gto thanks for finding my jims where can i meet you so i can get them back...

[jrc]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

...I don't know why I believe this but I'm pretty sure you are not allowed to be on the shore in Braun Bay.

You may be right, there may be a tresspassing issue with the shore in Braun Bay. My point was just that a No Rafting Zone has nothing to do with walking on shore.

I'm sure one intent of some NRZs is to limit the number of boats, which has the effect of limiting the number of people. Which of course limits the number of meatheads that cause trouble and pollute.

[Misty Blue]

The shore at the "rafting area" in Braun Bay is the Kona wildlife management area. It is state property and extends from the skimobile path on the north side of the bay to the first house on the western side of the bay over Goodhue hill almost to the neck road.

I have hunted there for most of my life and have been supprised by how little impact the boaters have had on the area. Very little human waste. I did have to pick up some cans last week from the water. F....Jerks!

There are enough critters there doing their buisness that I don't think Scruffy the pooch will cause a serious inpact on the ecology of Moultonborough.

Live and let live, let nature be your teacher.

Misty Blue

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by jrc

Are there no tresspassing signs on the land behind the sandbar in Braun Bay? I don't remember seeing any but I never really looked.

As a land owner in NH (beyond the waterfront on Lake Winnipesauee) I can tell you that unless there are No Tresspassing signs every 50 feet (and the locals tend to rip them down) then the property is open to the public and authorities will do nothing.

We have tried on a number of occasions to post our property but the signs are ripped off and trash accumulates! Wanna bet the sheriff's relatives are involved? Hardwood trees have also disappeared!

[jrc]

AW has it right, I own some land along a river. I have more than a few issues with teenage party trash. I put up signs and they tear them down. The police always say, "no sign, no crime"

Technically, criminal tresspassing in NH is knowingly being somewhere you should not be. It's the "knowingly" part that's hard. I've heard stories of people videotaping themselves telling tresspassers to leave, then they can't later say that they didn't know. Too much work for me.

So seeing no signs in Braun Bay, I can go on shore until someone (a LEO or a landowner) tells me to leave. Then I can never return, because then I "know".

[GTO]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

hey gto thanks for finding my jims where can i meet you so i can get them back...

Come on RT, I know you don't wear your Jims when you ride your jet ski.....anyway, if they are yours....look on EBAY

[SBC]

Originally Posted by AC2717

I think you are right, there are no laws in the books saying you have to be 25 feet away from another boat correct? Nor that you have to be 75 feet from shore, rule is if you are still in the water you are in a public area, this discussion has happened many times in this forum with lakeside residents and boaters and island owners,

Now I know this sign is not legal, this issue has been raised, discussed and proven many times
Can someone contact MP and tell them this sign is illegal or a state Rep,
me down here in MA will just have it fall on deaf ears

This may not answer all the questions but may give some weight to the legality of posting a sign. Could save folks a few headaches if they bother to read it,

Here's an excerpt from the rules:

SAF-C 407.03 - Rafting as defined in RSA 270-42 V (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-42.htm)
shall be prohibited in the following areas of Lake Winnipesaukee unless covered by one of the exceptions specified in RSA 270:45:...

(4) Braun Bay - There shall be no rafting within 300 feet of both fish and game property lines as delineated by Marine Patrol with orange mooring balls.
Boat Restriction - area of Paugus Bay - contact Laconia for regulations. Public Water Supply
(5) Braun Bay at a distance less than 75 feet from shore lines as delineated by Marine Patrol with orange mooring balls.

Among many other locations named.

And to be clear here is the rafting rule:

PART Saf-C 407 RAFTING RULES

(a) In addition to and in conjunction with the requirements of RSA 270:44, no person, except as otherwise provided herein, shall, in a prohibited location or at a prohibited time:

(1) Form or allow a boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats;

(2) Form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft if any part of such raft is:

a. Less than 150 feet from shore; or

b. Less than 50 feet from any other raft; or

c. Less than 50 feet from any occupied single boat which is stationary upon the waters of the same lake or pond; and

(3) Anchor a single boat and cause it to remain stationary upon the waters of a lake or pond other than momentarily if any part of such boat is:

a. Less than 150 feet from shore; or

b. Less than 50 feet away from any raft; or

c. Less than 25 feet away from any other single boat which is stationary upon the waters of such lake or pond.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

"...2 guys on jetskis and one patrol boat swoop into Braun Bay...and start writing tickets...Kind of a waste of resources, but the wealthy land owners across the bay have obviously decided to force the issue...!"

Not the nearest landowner.

His place is up for sale...and who would buy it?

Well, someone in the "chemicals" trade, maybe?

[HUH]

After reading this thread im realy dissapointed in the way things are going. When does this type of nonsense end.. Roping off and signing every decent spot on the water that we the taxpayers own? Enough is enough!

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Well, someone in the "chemicals" trade, maybe?

I think the owner of Jack Daniels distillery may be interested!

[Gilligan]

I remember some years ago there were several signs posted in Braun Bay with rafting restrictions. They were smaller than the one pictured above and were placed 75 feet from shore. Anyone else remember those or have pictures?

The sign that is there now is hard to read from most parts of the bay. If there are already some boats at anchor there you will probably not even see the sign. Well intentioned idea to publicize the information but poorly executed.

The older signs were more aesthetic and easier to read. They also served the purpose of showing the 75 foot distance from shore
.

[CL 240 LS]

Betsey Patten is filing a bill to ban rafting in Braun Bay. Read the Moultonborough BOS minutes.

http://www.moultonborough.org/Pages/...11-19-2009.pdf

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by CL 240 LS

Betsey Patten is filing a bill to ban rafting in Braun Bay. Read the Moultonborough BOS minutes.

http://www.moultonborough.org/Pages/...11-19-2009.pdf

Hopefully it will fail. When bans are selective, it just concentrates the boats somewhere else. An all or nothing approach will work. Otherwise, the lake is less attractive to boaters.

[breathe easy]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Hopefully it will fail. When bans are selective, it just concentrates the boats somewhere else. An all or nothing approach will work. Otherwise, the lake is less attractive to boaters.

Just curious as I am not a boater and don't live on the lake. Would a ban on rafting benefit the private lakeshore property owners, presumably because it keeps all the boats from congregating close to their shore ?

[TomC]

Originally Posted by breathe easy

Just curious as I am not a boater and don't live on the lake. Would a ban on rafting benefit the private lakeshore property owners, presumably because it keeps all the boats from congregating close to their shore ?

yes, i would say that's the specific intent.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by CL 240 LS

Betsey Patten is filing a bill to ban rafting in Braun Bay. Read the Moultonborough BOS minutes.

http://www.moultonborough.org/Pages/...11-19-2009.pdf

Second in a conspiracy to curtail boating on the lake.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by breathe easy

Just curious as I am not a boater and don't live on the lake. Would a ban on rafting benefit the private lakeshore property owners, presumably because it keeps all the boats from congregating close to their shore ?

Of course bans benefit shoreline residents, but it is not a reasonable benefit. The problem is that when one area is banned, it concentrates those who raft into fewer spots. It would be best for all lakeshore property owners to share the rafting traffic, or just ban rafting all together. When one ban is approved, it is unfair to the rest of the property owners. What makes Braun Bay more special than Bahama Beach, Advent Cove, Buzzels Cove, Green's Basin, etc? In my view, there have been already too many bans approved, and some should be reversed. Then, Braun wouldn't have as much pressure and yet another ban would not be needed.

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Of course bans benefit shoreline residents, but it is not a reasonable benefit. The problem is that when one area is banned, it concentrates those who raft into fewer spots. It would be best for all lakeshore property owners to share the rafting traffic, or just ban rafting all together. When one ban is approved, it is unfair to the rest of the property owners. What makes Braun Bay more special than Bahama Beach, Advent Cove, Buzzels Cove, Green's Basin, etc? In my view, there have been already too many bans approved, and some should be reversed. Then, Braun wouldn't have as much pressure and yet another ban would not be needed.

In the inner Green's Basin rafting s banned!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

"...Of course bans benefit shoreline residents, but it is not a reasonable benefit. The problem is that when one area is banned, it concentrates those who raft into fewer spots. It would be best for all lakeshore property owners to share the rafting traffic..."

Alhough my adjacent two miles of shoreline is protected, shallow, long, and straight, this "dock-soaker" shows the probable reason there have been no rafters anchored here in recent years.

[OCDACTIVE]

I have been watching this thread and reading it with some great amusement as well as making me bitter to say the least.

I have been going to Braun Bay for decades. First off I love congregating with my fellow boaters. I really do enjoy meeting different people and hearing great boating stories. The bay is one of the only large sandbars that this can be done at. I know of many of the others bays and sandbars but none that I know of provides for such a large sandy area with a private shoreline where you are not in front of someones inhabited property.

That being said, I have seen Braun Bay in its best of times and worst. 4th of July weekend or a hot sunny weekend could be the most crowded.. If you don't like crowds you really shouldn't be on the lake on those particular times. However most of the weekends it is busy but not over crowded.... but thats why people go there not for solitude. There is no way to keep people from anchoring right next to you on a weekend day. I have tried keeping my distance but it simply fills up. And you can either get upset or not go.

The best piece of advice was to bring your digital camera along. I get there early in the day and snap a few pictures. When the marine patrol inevdiably show up, you have proof that other boaters anchored too close to you. However I have never had to do that. When the MP's show up it is usually late afternoon and time to go anyway.

As far as the rafting laws, I do not agree with them what so ever. 25ft, 50ft etc etc.... Where do these numbers come from?? It isn't like we are staying on board over night and have to worry about safe distances in case of a anchorline snapping. I can understand distance from shore and enough room in case of a medical emergency you can get boats out, but if you have two boats rafted why do they need to be further away then one boat anchored?

As far as this new bill "no rafting" in braun bay. This is just another feel good law that won't accomplish anything. People will still congregate there and raft there until it is split up. It isn't a law to ban boats but to keep them from roping together. What does that accomplish?

Too many laws to regulate a few people that don't have regard for others anyway. Pass a law they will break it regardless. It only takes away from our personal freedoms and adds another regulation to an already over regulated lake.

[Taz]

I am confused. Isn't rafting in Braun Bay already banned? The legal definition of a raft in NH is 3 or more boats isn't? Unless she wants to ban 2 boats tied together. Then you would have to define RAFT in Braun Bay differently than other areas of the lake that ban rafting as you can tie 2 boats together in areas that ban rafting.

If thats the intent of the bill, to ban tieing 2 boats together, I don't see what that will accomplish. The bay will still be filled with anchored boats on warm sunny weekends. What will change?

[NoRegrets]

You are correct. It is a no rafting area. I think the next law will try to create a no anchor zone! OCDACTIVE is absolutely correct in his postings. How sad for people to spend their lives trying to rule others.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by Taz

I am confused. Isn't rafting in Braun Bay already banned? The legal definition of a raft in NH is 3 or more boats isn't? Unless she wants to ban 2 boats tied together. Then you would have to define RAFT in Braun Bay differently than other areas of the lake that ban rafting as you can tie 2 boats together in areas that ban rafting.

Yep, the rules and labels are confusing. Rafting is TWO or MORE boats tied together. Here on Lake Winnipesaukee, the No Rafting Zones (NRZs) really mean RESTRICTED rafting zones. In those NRZs rafting is restricted to no more than TWO boats together.

The sign shown in Woodsy's thread starter says Rafting Restrictions. The first bulleted item on that sign says: No more than two boats per raft.

So, a No Rafting Zone on Winnie actually means rafting Restricted to no more than 2 boats per raft. You may also note that other NRZ restrictions may vary from zone to zone - such as distance from shore.

I am not in favor of banning all rafts in Braun Bay or anywhere else on the Lake. I don't see how this proposal would benefit the citizens of NH.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Another name on the list of people to vote out when they are up for re-election. This is going to be fun!

[lawn psycho]

Can someone clue me in? Who is the "aggrevied" party in this? Is it one or two homeowners? Is there a behavior that needs to be curtailed from people or is it realistically their mere presence that people are working to get rid of?

I do believe that people should be respectful of people's property, however, I fail to see the difference between boats "rafting" or 200 single boats all anchored in a given area.

If loud music is an issue, have that enforced. Trash, trespassing, are the issue then have MP enforce those laws. If someone is doing the aforementioned behavior, bans imposed on rafting are going to have ZERO impact on changing that persons behavior.

Personally, when I have watched people throw their cigarettes in the water right next to their own boat in the sand bar area, now THAT should be loss of lake privileges for LIFE!

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Alhough my adjacent two miles of shoreline is protected, shallow, long, and straight, this "dock-soaker" shows the probable reason there have been no rafters anchored here in recent years.

Aps you have used that same picture multiple times to try to prove multiple different points. Last time I think it was to say a high speed boater caused those (which is doubtful). So what are you getting at?

[ApS]

The picture appeared just once: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...&postcount=211

What I stated in late August:

"I haven't witnessed anything like this wake since one snapped my BIL's 23-foot monohull sailboat's ½" nylon dock line; fortunately, a visitor had his camera handy and photographed 'The Incoming Wake'. (And the soaked aftermath ).

"We never saw the boat!"

(Translated, that means I never saw the boat that made that wake).

Since then, I'd kept my eyes peeled and have identified the boat—after a second soaking.

What I'm "getting at" was to try to provoke the thought that rafting may need to be allowed to concentrate somewhere: Winnipesaukee's "Boat demographics" have changed in recent years.

Over lunch, I wouldn't want to be rafting and hit by a wake like that, when it can so thoroughly soak a dock even with the lake "down" in late-August.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Aps you have used that same picture multiple times to try to prove multiple different points. Last time I think it was to say a high speed boater caused those (which is doubtful). So what are you getting at?

It was probably the Mt. Washington!

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Alhough my adjacent two miles of shoreline is protected, shallow, long, and straight, this "dock-soaker" shows the probable reason there have been no rafters anchored here in recent years.

You don't even know what a 'dock soaker' is unless you live on the east side of The Broads between LSP and Ames Farm. It is more of a 'dock destroyer'. Mute point.

[ApS]

You appear to be aiding my point, that there are fewer places available today for a quiet raft-up due to disturbances.

The monies spent by the MPs to personally advise rafters of the law would be better spent on creating a safe and sandy place with appropriately-spaced mooring balls.

It would be meaningful to truck in rocks and sand over the ice to a location far from residents whose peaceable times at their heavily-taxed properties are disrupted by today's loud sound systems, a party atmosphere, air pollution, water pollution, trash, cooking fires plus the "personal-smoke-product-of-choice".

(A website devoted to "social-rafting" named themselves "Lake Trash".
You can't make this stuff up!)

"...Pass a law they will break it regardless..."

Maybe so, but a gasoline fire at an unregulated raft-up like this one—a State Park—could produce a headline that won't allow the NHMP the luxury of ever looking the other way.