Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > Home, Cottage or Land Maintenance
Home Forums Gallery Webcams Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2015, 12:29 PM   #1
rgilfert
Senior Member
 
rgilfert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bedford, NH / Rattlesnake Island
Posts: 299
Thanks: 152
Thanked 227 Times in 57 Posts
Default Lake Water Pipe Question

2015 will be the fifth time that I will have opened and closed our Rattlesnake cottage for the summer season. Each year I try to open the cottage as soon as humanely possible after ice-out and then close it back down shortly after Columbus Day in October. Because of the extremely cold water temperature, the absolute worst opening/closing activity is having wade out into the lake to install the 1.25" black PVC pipe for our lake-water feed (this is even worse than having to climb into the septic pump chamber to disconnect surface installed leach field pipe from the pump and trip the check-valve).
This winter I've been trying to think of a way of eliminating the necessity of taking the pipe out of the lake each fall and I haven't been able to come up with a good, foolproof approach. But in the absence of a perfect solution, I would like to bounce a potential half-a$$ed approach off of the membership.
Currently I have about a 70' run of 1.25" black PVC pipe running from the jet pump that is installed under the cottage down to a quick disconnect PVC union at the waterfront (about a 30' drop in elevation). From the union there is a second piece (about 30' long) of 1.25" black PVC pipe that runs out into the lake and terminates with a foot-valve and sieve. Obviously this second piece is the one that I remove each October and then reinstall in April. At 65 years of age....that wading out to waist height in 40 degree water is absolutely miserable and, to be honest, is something that I procrastinate about doing which shortens our summer usage of the cottage.
So all that preamble brings me to my question ..... what would happen if I simply disconnected the union at the lakefront and left the pipe in the water? I'm wondering whether by having the end of the pipe open there would a place for the freezing water to expand towards rather than building up pressure and eventually bursting the pipe? Is this a bone head thought, or might it work?
rgilfert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 01:35 PM   #2
chocophile
Senior Member
 
chocophile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 19-Mile Bay
Posts: 109
Thanks: 14
Thanked 30 Times in 13 Posts
Default Ice Movement

I sympathize with the ice-water bath experience--been there. We remove ours as well. But in the spring, I loop the end back around to shore and drop it in just a few feet of water. I use a 5-gallon bucket of concrete with a re-bar loop on top to weigh it down and keep the end in place. I am able to do this from shore; it can be tricky. When the water is a bit warmer, usually in June, I move it out to the summer location.

We have a treatment system that filters and sterilizes the water, so I am not as concerned about the possibly poorer quality of shallow water.

My main concern about leaving the hose in during the winter is the possibility of ice moving it during the ice-out process. I know some people leave the line in, but I suspect it takes a pretty quiet shoreline (wind and waves) to ensure that it stays in place.

Do you have a wet or dry suit?
chocophile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 01:53 PM   #3
brk-lnt
Senior Member
 
brk-lnt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South Down Shores
Posts: 1,937
Thanks: 532
Thanked 568 Times in 334 Posts
Default

How much does 30' of PVC pipe cost? Seems like you could find a way to leave it in the water, worse case is it breaks and you need to buy some PVC?
__________________
[insert witty phrase here]
brk-lnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 02:06 PM   #4
Jersey Ed
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 24
Thanks: 231
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Why can't you fasten a rope at the foot end of the pipe and several locations along the length of the pipe and leave it out at the land end and use it to pull the pipe out when you want to. Putting it in the spring, I would use a boat to take it out to where you want it. No need to get wet in either direction.
Jersey Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 02:16 PM   #5
tummyman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 774
Thanks: 231
Thanked 628 Times in 226 Posts
Default

Keep it simple....go to Bass Pro Shops or Cabellas and buy an inexpensive pair of fishermen chest waders. Then you can go out in spring and fall, stay dry and WARM with clothes on underneath! Simple solution, since you claim the water depth is not above the waist. My sons use waders to install and remove our dock each year...and they get way up to chest deep in the water. It is a simple purchase and one that can be used year after year. Takes all the pain out of the process. Everyone who does their own docks should invest in these simple items.
tummyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-24-2015, 06:57 PM   #6
Blue Thunder
Senior Member
 
Blue Thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Eastern MA & Frye Island/Sebago Lake, Maine
Posts: 935
Thanks: 247
Thanked 323 Times in 148 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brk-lnt View Post
How much does 30' of PVC pipe cost? Seems like you could find a way to leave it in the water, worse case is it breaks and you need to buy some PVC?
This is what I do....I made up a neat suction line out of 1 1/2" schedule 40 PVC. I incorporated some tees, 90's, and 45's at the very end so that it looks like a stand with a base and it holds the foot valve about 12" straight up off the bottom. It's very stable and I stay dry both putting it in and taking it out. It's about 30 feet long.
__________________
" Live for today because yesterday is gone and tomorrow may never come"
Blue Thunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 06:47 AM   #7
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default ... Pyrotenax internally heated water lines

Drawing the water out of the lake all year 'round....here's what I did....when I turn on the kitchen faucet, what comes out is Lake Winnipesaukee water with no filters what-so-ever. While I do not drink it, I do brush my teeth with it (in the bathroom). A 3-gal water container lug-a-jug carries treated town water for drinking, cooking and making coffee.

In 1992, I installed a 125' x 1 1/4" black poly tube that goes from the kitchen water pump-storage tank into the lake to a depth of about six feet. Pyrotenax Co ....now maybe renamed Tyco....purchased from Gilford Well sells the Pyrotenax heated waterlines....made in Ontario for use by farmers and others...to draw water from a lake all year round. Something like 888-watts, 220-volts, 3-amps are the specs for 125' ... controlled with a turn knob temperature thermostat powers up the heat wire inside the pvc tube to melt any build-up of slushy ice that clogs it up.

Installation says to bury the tube just six inches down into the dirt, and run it through a two inch pvc tube where it crosses under the rocky embankment and down into the lake.

Gilford Well charged me $1050. for the system which all came in one big box including the 125' black poly tube, internal heat cable, thermostat control and thermostat sensor....it did not include a foot valve. Supposedly, the black poly tube is a high pressure pvc that expands if a freeze-up occurs ...and unlike the hardware store black pvc that cracks when frozen....the high pressure pvc is still usable(?). One year, I forgot to turn on the circuit breaker till February or sometime.... and the pipe froze up....after turning the breaker on....it thawed out in two days and works just fine thereafter.

Installed in 1992....and still works perfectly today...has needed no maintenance since 1992....did it myself....not too shabby.....budda-bing-bang-boom.....made in Ontario, Canada by Pyrotenax.
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 01-25-2015 at 07:22 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
billy (01-25-2015), rgilfert (01-25-2015)
Old 01-25-2015, 10:51 AM   #8
tummyman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 774
Thanks: 231
Thanked 628 Times in 226 Posts
Default

Fatlazyless, your suggestion it makes no sense. Remember, this person is seasonal...you are year round. Why would he spend between $1000 and $2000, do all the work himself, when he could just buy the waders for less than $200? You suggestion is a good one for year round, but not seasonal. Keep it simple......
tummyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 02:14 PM   #9
Ken
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hazlet, NJ and Cow island
Posts: 21
Thanks: 6
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default black pic pipe

We are on cow during the summer. For the winter I just drain the pipe to the water line. I installed a valve there. Just leave it open to drain. Seems to work real well. Been doing it for years now. In the spring, I close the valve and fill the pipe with water, fill the pump to prime it and away we go.
Ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 02:28 PM   #10
Formula260SS
Senior Member
 
Formula260SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NH
Posts: 384
Thanks: 11
Thanked 76 Times in 51 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
We are on cow during the summer. For the winter I just drain the pipe to the water line. I installed a valve there. Just leave it open to drain. Seems to work real well. Been doing it for years now. In the spring, I close the valve and fill the pipe with water, fill the pump to prime it and away we go.
Agreed this is the easiest solution. Water that freezes in the pipe below the waterline will not burst the pipe.
Formula260SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 06:40 PM   #11
Bear Islander
Senior Member
 
Bear Islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 1,757
Thanks: 31
Thanked 429 Times in 203 Posts
Default

My 1.25" black poly pipe has been in the water for 21 years and has never failed. I have a drain down by the water line that I open to get most of the water out. I do have about 25 feet of 1.5" poly pipe over the smaller pipe where it enters the water. This protects the inner pipe from wear against rocks. The outer pipe gets badly rubbed but the inner pipe has always been ok.

I am at the northern point of Bear Island where we get a lot of ice action.
Bear Islander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 06:45 PM   #12
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro
Posts: 5,780
Thanks: 2,078
Thanked 735 Times in 530 Posts
Cool It Floats...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
We are on cow during the summer. For the winter I just drain the pipe to the water line. I installed a valve there. Just leave it open to drain. Seems to work real well. Been doing it for years now. In the spring, I close the valve and fill the pipe with water, fill the pump to prime it and away we go.
I did the same thing, updating with a lengthening to 100'+ of black pipe—using a brass hose-bib for a valve at the (winter) water's edge.

Last Fall, I left the closing to my BIL, who didn't open the valve as directed. Winter came and went, and we had no problem with the pipe—either below or above the waterline!

When opening-up, a utility pump is dropped into a five gallon bucket of a mix of water and anti-freeze which overwinters in the shower. The mix is then pumped from the highest hose bib, with only the cold faucet open in the shower. The cold side is "officially" primed when water comes from the (higher) showerhead. With the pump thusly primed, the valve to the hot water tank is opened, and the house water pump fills the tank. (Now, only with the hot faucet open). This was a much easier method than priming at the pump itself—something we'd done for many years.

My former neighbors had a similar, but shorter, water pipe arrangement in the lake, but it always floated year-round!
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 08:24 PM   #13
Kamper
Senior Member
 
Kamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Thornton's Ferry
Posts: 1,295
Thanks: 67
Thanked 165 Times in 125 Posts
Default

I remember a similar thread a few years back. Suggestions for future prep included burying the PVC in a trench. Using iron pipe sleeved over the PVC to weigh down the bit in the water, below the freeze line. There was more but I can't remember.
Kamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 12:13 PM   #14
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

Down at the Walmart in Tilton, it has a much bigger selection of differerent styles of waders than at either the Gilford or Plymouth Walmarts. For as low as about $18, they have one-piece, bib overall style waders with shoulder straps attached, that goes up to one's armpits, and it works pretty good too. For about thirty and fifty dollars they have some better quality in different styles....I was surprised to see all the waders in the fishing dept in Tilton, considering that the other Walmarts do not have anything like this inventory.
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 01:38 PM   #15
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,504
Thanks: 3,113
Thanked 1,089 Times in 783 Posts
Default Same setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamper View Post
I remember a similar thread a few years back. Suggestions for future prep included burying the PVC in a trench. Using iron pipe sleeved over the PVC to weigh down the bit in the water, below the freeze line. There was more but I can't remember.
Same set up since the 60's on The Broads. James Gray did the whole shebang and works perfectly! Just open the spigot next to the water line and open all of the faucets in the camp. We have a tankless water heater that is a god send! Takes 15 20 minutes to completely drain the water and pour RV antifreeze in all the drains.

One winter, we stayed at the camp for a week for snowmobiling. I attached a hose at the water line spigot, chop a hole in the ice to put the hose in. I turned on the pump and I was able to have running water for the week. When I leave I just drain the system! Pretty slick!
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 01:46 PM   #16
SIKSUKR
Senior Member
 
SIKSUKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,075
Thanks: 215
Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts
Default

We never took our 1.25 black poly pipe out of the water for 30 years. Never had a problem. We had no wave or ice flow issue though but the freeze never hurt the pipe if it was drained down to the lake.
__________________
SIKSUKR
SIKSUKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 06:41 AM   #17
SeventySeven
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Lake water supply

Here's what we have done with a 20+ year history of success. Not the cheapest, but absolutely the most effective overall:

Obtain a new or gently used deep well pump of proper size for your water needs...we are using 1/3 and 1/2 hp at two locations. Remove any built in check valve(s) in or at the pump. Build what's called a "deadman" from 4" PVC fittings...specifically, the pump slides into a short section of 4" pipe and uses a tee and street 90 fittings pointed up with caps on their ends. Drill many small holes to make a "strainer"...looks like salt and pepper shakers when done. Blank off the opposite with a cap or fittings to capture the pump wires and up-pipe...seal tight as possible to prevent sand entry. Place in not less than 5 feet of good water. Sleeve 3/4" up-pipe and wires in much larger black poly where you hit shore...hopefully under the sand and rocks.

Accumulator tank and pressure switch can live under or in your residence. Install a check valve in the up-pipe where it hits the tank...pressure switch must be installed after the check and before the tank (use a tee). Suggest a manual bypass valve around the check and a local manual drain...all clustered at the tank.

It's silent, reliable (15 years since we last even looked at the pump), can be used mid-winter, self-drains, self-primes, no suction air leak issues, etc.

All the usual cautions still apply for fall draining but plumbed properly most of the work is done by opening fixtures, bypass and drain. Think it through.
SeventySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 10:04 AM   #18
Bear Islander
Senior Member
 
Bear Islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 1,757
Thanks: 31
Thanked 429 Times in 203 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventySeven View Post
Here's what we have done with a 20+ year history of success. Not the cheapest, but absolutely the most effective overall:

Obtain a new or gently used deep well pump of proper size for your water needs...we are using 1/3 and 1/2 hp at two locations. Remove any built in check valve(s) in or at the pump. Build what's called a "deadman" from 4" PVC fittings...specifically, the pump slides into a short section of 4" pipe and uses a tee and street 90 fittings pointed up with caps on their ends. Drill many small holes to make a "strainer"...looks like salt and pepper shakers when done. Blank off the opposite with a cap or fittings to capture the pump wires and up-pipe...seal tight as possible to prevent sand entry. Place in not less than 5 feet of good water. Sleeve 3/4" up-pipe and wires in much larger black poly where you hit shore...hopefully under the sand and rocks.

Accumulator tank and pressure switch can live under or in your residence. Install a check valve in the up-pipe where it hits the tank...pressure switch must be installed after the check and before the tank (use a tee). Suggest a manual bypass valve around the check and a local manual drain...all clustered at the tank.

It's silent, reliable (15 years since we last even looked at the pump), can be used mid-winter, self-drains, self-primes, no suction air leak issues, etc.

All the usual cautions still apply for fall draining but plumbed properly most of the work is done by opening fixtures, bypass and drain. Think it through.
There is a problem with using a deep well pump in the lake. I have considered this option in the past and I think it would work well except that you are running 240 volt electricity into the lake. In my opinion this is an extremely dangerous thing to do. The possibility of someone in the water being electrocuted is unacceptable high.
Bear Islander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 11:01 AM   #19
SeventySeven
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Lake water supply

I will never argue with anyone wanting to "put safety first" and thank you. In delivering my basic thoughts, to keep things readable, I decided to chance that future discussions, like this one, would bring out the required details. Hence:

Our two working installations are at 120 volts. A separate grounding conductor travels with the pump conductors, back to the legally required disconnecting means on dry land, and said conductor is in addition to what is required in the current 2014 version of NFPA 70 (aka "The National Electrical Code") as amended for New Hampshire. The branch circuit which feeds the pump carries legally and currently required GFCI protection, tested weekly, which is beyond the manufacturers monthly recommendation. In the mentioned 20 year history, there has never been a fault of any kind.

I assume and expect anyone doing any work involving the supply of electrical energy to any device is having that part of the work done by a properly licensed electrician. That electrician, doing his job correctly, would likely build out an installation quite similar to ours.

Regardless of my thoughts, anyone feeling uncomfortable with this approach should simply not do it.

Again, I can't thank you enough for bringing this to the surface for discussion. You have appropriately brought up what should be everyone's first topic, safety. I apologize for not doing so myself at the outset.
SeventySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SeventySeven For This Useful Post:
secondcurve (04-05-2015)
Old 04-05-2015, 11:44 AM   #20
Bear Islander
Senior Member
 
Bear Islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 1,757
Thanks: 31
Thanked 429 Times in 203 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventySeven View Post
I will never argue with anyone wanting to "put safety first" and thank you. In delivering my basic thoughts, to keep things readable, I decided to chance that future discussions, like this one, would bring out the required details. Hence:

Our two working installations are at 120 volts. A separate grounding conductor travels with the pump conductors, back to the legally required disconnecting means on dry land, and said conductor is in addition to what is required in the current 2014 version of NFPA 70 (aka "The National Electrical Code") as amended for New Hampshire. The branch circuit which feeds the pump carries legally and currently required GFCI protection, tested weekly, which is beyond the manufacturers monthly recommendation. In the mentioned 20 year history, there has never been a fault of any kind.

I assume and expect anyone doing any work involving the supply of electrical energy to any device is having that part of the work done by a properly licensed electrician. That electrician, doing his job correctly, would likely build out an installation quite similar to ours.

Regardless of my thoughts, anyone feeling uncomfortable with this approach should simply not do it.

Again, I can't thank you enough for bringing this to the surface for discussion. You have appropriately brought up what should be everyone's first topic, safety. I apologize for not doing so myself at the outset.
Electrocutions in pools and lakes is on the rise. Consequently I believe anyone unnecessarily putting line voltage into a lake is making a mistake.

GFCI devices are wonderful, if they work, if they are not bypassed due to nuisance tripping, if they were installed in the first place, if you remember (or know how) to test them.

In recent years the use of low voltage lighting and other devices in the vicinity of swimming areas is on the rise. Low voltage devices are the only certain way to protect swimmers. I have in the past looked for a low voltage submersible pump option but have been unable to find one.

Anyone thinking this is not a real problem should google "electrocution lake" and read for themselves.
Bear Islander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 07:44 PM   #21
SeventySeven
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Your view has merit. Again, sincere thanks.
SeventySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 09:48 AM   #22
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

I can't offer you a perfect solution, but after seeing the ridiculous piping job that was done on my place when I bought it, I decided that a complete redo was in order.

I have a typical jet pump on shore that pumps up to the camp and draws out of the lake. Everything was put together with threaded fittings, the pump was out in the weather and the electric (110) was done via a junction box that was just thrown on the ground and mind you with no cover on it. Unacceptable!

First thing I did was to install a weather proof and covered gang box on the side of my deck at the water. I installed a GFI outlet and isolated the circuit back at the main panel in the house. I then poured a small concrete slab to put the pump on and built a "dog house" to cover the pump and protect it from the weather. I wired in a new cord from the pressure switch that will just plug in to that outlet I installed. If it's a 220 you can use an L6-30 twist lock. With that all squared away I pulled off all the plumbing fittings and replaced them with quick release cam locks. These are the bomb! http://www.camlock-fittings.com/ To prime the pump I also installed a vertical filler with a cam lock as well. These cam locks can be bought either online or locally. I got mine at the well/pump shop in Alton near the traffic circle on 28.

For deploying my draw line I use a simple milk crate and run the end of the hose through the handles of the crate and tie it off so the end of the line can't be pulled out. I then attach a rope to the crate so I can lower it into the water gently till it hits bottom with a couple of rocks to weight it down. At the end of the rope I tied a loop that is easy to grab with a hook for removal in the fall. One thing that could be done different is to tie a rope long enough to the crate to reach back to shore and tie to a tree leaving it submerged on the lake bottom.

I never get wet when I deal with my system and with the cam locks installation and removal is a snap. The other nice thing with those cam locks you can get a plug to seal the ends of your lines over the winter time.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
rgilfert (04-15-2015), SeventySeven (04-13-2015)
Old 04-15-2015, 05:39 AM   #23
rgilfert
Senior Member
 
rgilfert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bedford, NH / Rattlesnake Island
Posts: 299
Thanks: 152
Thanked 227 Times in 57 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
.....the plumbing fittings and replaced them with quick release cam locks. These are the bomb! http://www.camlock-fittings.com/ To prime the pump I also installed a vertical filler with a cam lock as well. These cam locks can be bought either online or locally. I got mine at the well/pump shop in Alton near the traffic circle on 28.
Thanks Maxum!! The pipe going from my septic pump up to the leach field uses this type of fitting and I agree they are fantastic. I wanted to use them for our fresh water feed as well but I didn't know what they were called and couldn't find them via google on the internet. I'll definitely swap them out when I put the pipe back in the water this year (hopefully sometime next week!!).

BTW our fresh water pump is a jet pump like yours however it is installed under the cottage (20+ ft above the lake level) versus at the lakefront. Is there a reason that you put it there? I've noticed that most of my neighbors have their pump down by the lake as well.
rgilfert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2015, 11:51 AM   #24
SIKSUKR
Senior Member
 
SIKSUKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,075
Thanks: 215
Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts
Default

Pumps are limited by how much they can lift water. Basically around 26 ft. You can push water much higher so some installations must be at the low side.
__________________
SIKSUKR
SIKSUKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2015, 12:47 PM   #25
garysanfran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco/Meredith
Posts: 1,488
Thanks: 602
Thanked 629 Times in 320 Posts
Default Do you have electricity during the winter?

We have used a low voltage external pipe heater for decades. It's similar to this...Never had a problem. Flick a switch in the spring...Voila! Water.

http://www.heatline.com/
__________________
Gary
~~~~_/) ~~~
~~~~~~~~
garysanfran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2015, 10:49 AM   #26
Slickcraft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Welch Island and West Alton
Posts: 3,210
Thanks: 1,166
Thanked 1,999 Times in 913 Posts
Default

We got the water in at camp on Welch last week. The process involved:

1. Close the drain valve just above the lake water level.

2. Close the drain at bottom of water tank and UV system.

3. Reinstall the two filter canisters with new cartridges.

4. Turn on the power and watch the gauge run up. Done.

Last fall we had ISS install a new pump system with a submersible pump that stays in the lake in about 12' of water, 30' beyond end of breakwater. Pump is mounted on a stainless steel frame and held at about a 45 degree angle.

All pipe stays in place for the winter, just open drain valves at end of season. I was concerned that the pipe would freeze and burst just below the drain valve. Steve at ISS said that he has installed about 25 such systems and never has had a problem. And he guaranteed the system, if the ice did it in he would fix it.

After getting the water in I left the system pressurized with the power off for 2 days and there was no loss in pressure. So no leaks after that cold winter.

We used to have a jet pump under the camp and a water hose that had to be put back in the lake. And then we had to prime the system which always took way too long. I don't miss the old jet pump one bit.
Slickcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 10:19 PM   #27
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,003
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 1,498 Times in 975 Posts
Default Agreed

Slickcraft is absolutely right. We had ISS install a well pump many years ago and it has been basically trouble free. Several years ago, the plastic pipe rubbed through against the rocks at the shores edge. I cut out a small section and put a 4" PVC pipe as a sacrificial piece over the intake and it is good protection.

We also used to deal with priming the jet pump, etc and we had to replace the pumps frequently. same with old plumbing that is open under the house. That usually meant a day to see if things worked, and if not, a second day (weekend) to get parts and fix before the family would agree to come up. We all got tired of that after only a few decades. Slow learners.

Now we know that:

Roughing it is slow room service.
Luxury is getting a call from Steve a couple of days after ice-out that says the water is on, the furniture is outdoors and we cleaned the house and washed the windows. This gives us several extra weekends to play, when we used to fix and clean. Priceless.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 09:20 AM   #28
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,813
Thanks: 1,011
Thanked 878 Times in 513 Posts
Default

Why is it people complain about the priming of jet pump systems.... I was allowed to share a well with a neighbor for a while and got used to the easy life... But a few years back decided to go back to my own water system. (sharing sometimes doesn't work out)....

It takes me about 30 mins, to get the pipe in the water... I don't worry about getting it immediately in the right spot......prime the pump... and have running water...... I don't use any special tactics I Fill the water line to the pump and bell housing and give the air a path to escape... As long as your fittings are tight so your not sucking in air... these systems are really easy to manage....

As long as the foot valve is underwater you should be all set... I used mine for the first weekend, with it only in a few feet of water..and throwing distance from shore.. Last weekend with a wetsuit on, I moved it out to a deeper location, in just a few simple minutes...
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 12:23 PM   #29
Island Girl
Senior Member
 
Island Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Central MA
Posts: 2,352
Thanks: 18
Thanked 535 Times in 179 Posts
Default Scott designed auto prime

A very good friend designed a way to auto prime the pump. It consists of an extra length of thin pipe and a shut off valve. Open the valve, use an electric or gas pump to pump water into the line near the foot valve. This fills the thick pipe and primes the pump. Bada Bing...

Roger, come and take a look. It has never failed.

Put the basket under the dock and tie so it won't move... run the pump primer, turn on the jet pump and there is water. (as long as there are no issues under the house with broken pipes). When the water gets lower the basket can be moved deeper (and the water is warmer to do that)

Before this system, I always had trouble with the prime. If the system lost prime, there I was under the porch trying to prime it again. I suffered for years.

IG
__________________
Island Girl

....... Make Lemonade
Island Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 04:48 PM   #30
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgilfert View Post
Thanks Maxum!! The pipe going from my septic pump up to the leach field uses this type of fitting and I agree they are fantastic. I wanted to use them for our fresh water feed as well but I didn't know what they were called and couldn't find them via google on the internet. I'll definitely swap them out when I put the pipe back in the water this year (hopefully sometime next week!!).

BTW our fresh water pump is a jet pump like yours however it is installed under the cottage (20+ ft above the lake level) versus at the lakefront. Is there a reason that you put it there? I've noticed that most of my neighbors have their pump down by the lake as well.
Keeping the pump as close to the water as I could just seemed to make the most sense from an "engineering" standpoint. Less line to keep primed and less overhead for suction. These pumps have less trouble pushing water, but do on the suction side. So long as yours isn't having any problems I wouldn't move it.

Yeah those fittings are awesome no question and well worth the extra money to install them. Threading fittings to assemble or disassemble is just dumb when you can have a few strategically placed cam locks.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.40696 seconds