Can I take my boat on Squam Lake?

Dave R · 03-12-2008, 11:18 AM

My boat has sleeping berths and a head. I recall reading that boats equipped with these features are prohibited from Squam Lake. Is this true?

winnidiver · 03-12-2008, 11:41 AM

http://www.squamlakeschamber.com/boating.php

Here's your link and it says no.My son had my cuddy on Squam all summer two years ago and no one said anything.It does not have a head.But none asked either. I don't think you would have a problem with a day trip.

Skip · 03-12-2008, 11:53 AM

Your boat would definitely meet the legal definition of a houseboat here in New Hampshire, thereby being prohibited on Squam and several other inland bodies of water:

Restrictions on Boating
Section 270:77
270:77 Squam and Conway Lakes and Silver Lake in Madison. – No person shall at any time place in or upon, or use, or operate upon, Squam Lake or Conway Lake or Silver Lake in Madison any houseboat. Whoever violates any provision of this section shall be guilty of a violation. Boards of health and health officers of towns abutting said lakes shall have power and authority to enforce the provisions of this section.
Source. 1989, 339:2, eff. Jan. 1, 1990.

jrc · 03-12-2008, 12:01 PM

What is a houseboat?

I'm having deja-vu all over again:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ight=houseboat

Skip · 03-12-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

What is a houseboat?

I'm having deja-vu all over again:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ight=houseboat

Yep, I figured that thread would resurface again! And, nothings changed...

Anyway, the boat described above definitely would meet the houseboat definition and would be prohibited from Squam. No loophole here for Dave to "sail through"...

Airwaves · 03-12-2008, 12:49 PM

You can't even put what is legally defined as a houseboat in Squam for the day!

We are looking for a second place in the Lakes Region or Maine so I printed out the Marine Patrol list of restricted bodies of water. It's prevented me from jumping the gun on several properties.

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...estricted.html

VitaBene · 03-12-2008, 01:19 PM

Dave,

I also used to have a cuddy with a chemical head docked on Squam and never had a problem. The bigger issue at Squam was that the SLA ramps only allow very low HP boats to use them. You will have to find a ramp. Squam Boat Livery (at the bridge) has one and I believe the ramp in the middle of the river separating Big and Little is public access with parking down the street. Squam is a beautiful lake and worth the aggravation if your boat is deemed OK.

Skip · 03-12-2008, 01:28 PM

Let me see if I can clarify this.

If Dave has a cuddy with porta-potti, the MP has traditionally overlooked these types of craft as houseboats on the waters mentioned previously.

However, in the case of Squam and the other lakes mentioned, local health officials along with regular law enforcement are empowered to enforce this RSA.

Dave said he has a "head" and "sleeping berths". I took that description as meaning those features are permanent in nature. If so, then there is no gray area, Dave's boat is specifically prohibited from the aforementioned waterways.

Hope this clears it up a little....

Kamper · 03-12-2008, 02:22 PM

If the boat has a port-a-potti that you remove prior to launch, is it still a "houseboat?"

Skip · 03-12-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

If the boat has a port-a-potti that you remove prior to launch, is it still a "houseboat?"

No toilet no houseboat....sail away & enjoy the day!

SIKSUKR · 03-13-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

No toilet no houseboat....sail away & enjoy the day!

Kind of makes you scratch your head.I guess it's better to use the lake as a bathroom.I could understand if there are holding tanks that could possibly be dumped in the lake.

jrc · 03-13-2008, 09:15 AM

This is a size restriction law camoflaged as a health law. Since larger boats almost always have heads and beds, they are effectively banned from Squam.

This is not the first time or last time you will see this.

Skip · 03-13-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

This is a size restriction law camoflaged as a health law. Since larger boats almost always have heads and beds, they are effectively banned from Squam.

This is not the first time or last time you will see this.

You are correct, and this is a law that has been on the books in one form or another for decades.

That is why in many cases it is simply impossible to compare the conditions at Squam Lake with those at Winni. Through various legislative acts both at the State and local level the communities surrounding Squam shut the door on development and expanded boating many, many years ago....long before we faced the problems we see now.

The folks on Squam don't have to try and turn the clock back, as some are trying to do on Winni today. The clock was effectively stopped on Squam many years ago....

Dave R · 03-13-2008, 09:40 AM

Thanks folks. My porta-potti is firmly mounted and has pumpout plumbing permanently attached to the boat. Removing it will be fairly easy, but I find it disturbing that the state requires me to so. That just encourages me and my guests to relieve ourselves in Squam Lake. How odd...

masssteve · 03-14-2008, 01:50 PM

Squam is like driving around in circles in the graveyard all day. Rocks everywere, nothing much to see, and you have to go from one marker to the next or your in trouble. Nice place for a canoe or a pontoon boat, quiet, not much to see but old camps and cottages. It is great for fishing if your into it. Make sure you have a map, a depthfinder, and perhaps an extra prop onboard.

Dave R · 03-14-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masssteve

Squam is like driving around in circles in the graveyard all day. Rocks everywere, nothing much to see, and you have to go from one marker to the next or your in trouble. Nice place for a canoe or a pontoon boat, quiet, not much to see but old camps and cottages. It is great for fishing if your into it. Make sure you have a map, a depthfinder, and perhaps an extra prop onboard.

I have the electronic chart from C-MAP and a paper chart and I did notice that there are a LOT of rocks. I do like to gunkhole so it the challenge does appeal to me. No spare props on board, I have a Bravo 3 and odds are good if I wreck the props I have, I'll do serious damage to the drive as well.

fatlazyless · 03-14-2008, 06:29 PM

Did anybody mention that Squam Lake which is actually two large lakes connected by the aprox 1/8 mile Squam River also has a total ban on the simply dreadfull jetski. No jetskis allowed at Squam, sorry to all strangers, ayuh!

Ok, I'm ready to get five different legal reasons on why a three-seater jetski is a boat and not a jetski, which is a 1989 legal legacy left to New Hampshire pwc-ers that was created by the late, great, State Rep Mike Whalley of Bow, Alton Bay and HK Powersports.

You can be sure that this session's legislature would not be approv'n any 3 seat jetski = boat rule. More likely, they'd be put'n a bounty on those noisy things, or pass a law requir'n that they sound just like a loon!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Squam's ban on jetskis is what precipitated the 1989 cabal of the Republican grip on the legislature, Bow State Rep Mike Whalley, and the NH Marine Trades Assoc to cook up that 3 seats = boat rule. Yes, those were the days!

...time 8:19....waiting for the rest of the story to show up.....

Cal · 03-14-2008, 07:44 PM

Gee , sounds like a real nice place to kayak or canoe...imagine that.

Skip · 03-14-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Yes, I will.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...Ok, I'm ready to get five different legal reasons on why a three-seater jetski is a boat and not a jetski, which is a 1989 legal legacy left to New Hampshire pwc-ers that was created by the late, great, State Rep Mike Whalley of Bow, Alton Bay and HK Powersports...

RSA 270:73 that defines a jet ski as a watercraft that carries one or two persons was codified in 1988. Mike Whalley wasn't even elected to the Legislature until 4 years later in 1992.

Once again my condolences to the Representative's family. For those of you that may be unaware, Representative Whalley's untimely death at the age of 54 occurred only a few weeks ago. The pain of his passing is still fresh in the minds of the many of us out here that knew him and his family, and have tremendous respect for the work he did on behalf of the citizens of this State.

FLL, I will ask that you show some decorum and tread very lightly out of respect to the Whalley family and the late Representative's many friends and supporters, myself included, who are still mourning his death.

fatlazyless · 03-15-2008, 07:06 AM

New Hampshire had another 'red herring' rule similar to the '3 seat=boat, not jetski' rule. The New Hampshire Dept of Resources and Economic Development, DRED, had been wanting to classify atv's as snowmobiles so they would be able to use railroad tracks or corridors which by federal law are open only to snowmobiles and not atv's.

Unfortunately, the federal agency involved just said no to New Hampshire wish to classify atv's same as snowmo's.

And now thankfully, DRED along with www.LWSA.org is about to start construction on a community sailing facility on a lesser used end of the beautifull beach at Ellecoya State Park on Lake Winnipesaukee.

I noticed that the Town of Gilford had an article in their recent election asking whether Gilford residents wanted to contribute $10,000. to the new community sailing home, and the vote was something like 200-yes vs 600-no.

You can read all about it in the Concord Monitor. Between NH-NPR radio, and the Concord Monitor, what's happening to this state?

A state run community sailing facility, a Winnipesaukee speed limit, and saying an atv is not a snowmo? Like, what exactly is happening here?

Kamper · 03-15-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

... Like, what exactly is happening here?

Hmm.... sounds like thread-jacking to me. All valid points FLL but maybe you should start a new thread for a detailed discussion.

Good luck!

Skip · 03-16-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

Hmm.... sounds like thread-jacking to me...

While this is not the appropriate thread to continue with FLL's diversion, I can assure the reader that the issue regarding DRED, ATVs and the railroad bed is not being portrayed accuratey by him.

Not being a Lake issue, any reader that would like the correct story regarding the rail bed issue can always contact me via PM and I will gladly answer your questions and provide you with correct sources of information regarding the matter.

Skip

SIKSUKR · 03-18-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

I can assure the reader that the issue regarding DRED, ATVs and the railroad bed is not being portrayed accuratey by him.
Skip

Very few of FLL posts are.Here he goes throwing me into a catagory of having one of those dreadfull noisey jetskis.You forgot the polluting part.I'll bet my 4 stroke is quieter than 95% of all powered boats on the lake and it has extremely clean emisions.Here's the best part,I CAN use it on Squam and I bet I'm a LOT more environmently friendly than all those 2 stroke outboards sitting at those docks with their turned up noses.Squam is actually a great lake for PWC's with it's very shallow draft and NO toilet!

SBC · 03-20-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

RSA 270:73 that defines a jet ski as a watercraft that carries one or two persons was codified in 1988...

More specifically, a SKI Craft is what is banned on Squam Lakes. A Personal Water Craft (PWC) is the same classification as a boat. Also see: http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...tricted.html#S and refer to Squam Lake.

This is also a good site to refer to prior to venturing onto a waterway where you have not been as it tells about many other restrictions on that waterway that are good to know i.e. HP limits, speed limits, no petroleum powered, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by masssteve

Squam is like driving around in circles in the graveyard all day. Rocks everywere, nothing much to see, and you have to go from one marker to the next or your in trouble...

Steve, quiturb%#@^in-we're supposed to be having fun here. We'll miss you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

...Removing it will be fairly easy, but I find it disturbing that the state requires me to so. That just encourages me and my guests to relieve ourselves in Squam Lake. How odd...

Dave, know this:http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...0/270-72-a.htm

and for any NH body of water:http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...487/487-10.htm

but more importantly:http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../485-a-mrg.htm While there look at 485-A:2-VIII and 485-A:15.

In the latter note that it requires that if you put it there (including pee & poop) you must clean it up-yewwwwww.

Enough toilet humor. Would you agree that we have some of the cleanest waters in the US? And you want to defecate in them?

Dave R · 03-20-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBC

Enough toilet humor. Would you agree that we have some of the cleanest waters in the US? And you want to defecate in them?

I dunno about the cleanest waters in the US, but I never wrote that I wish to defecate in any lake. I wrote that the state wants me to and that I found it odd.

Dave M · 03-20-2008, 03:36 PM

When you say SKI Craft, are you talking about a boat thats made for sking which has the motor in the middle. Don't understand why they are banned if you can water ski on Squam as long as you keep it under 40mph.

Dave M

Skip · 03-20-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M

When you say SKI Craft, are you talking about a boat thats made for sking which has the motor in the middle. Don't understand why they are banned if you can water ski on Squam as long as you keep it under 40mph.

Dave M

A watercraft defined as a skicraft is by statute prohibited from Squam.

This is the State definition of a skicraft:

RSA 270:73

...V. ""Ski craft'' means any motorized watercraft or private boat which is less than 13 feet in length as manufactured, is capable of exceeding a speed of 20 miles per hour, and has the capacity to carry not more than the operator and one other person while in operation. The term includes a jet ski, surf ski, fun ski, or other similar device. ""Ski craft'' does not include any watercraft or boat with twin hulls and which is greater than 11 feet long, greater than 5 feet wide, and powered by an outboard motor...

fatlazyless · 03-21-2008, 08:39 AM

And one has to wonder how much the NH Marine Trades Assoc, a lobbying assoc for boat sellers, & a regular and long time contributor to many Republican state legislators, had to do with the state's legal definition of a jetski.

Similarly, with regard to the lack of a speed limit on frozen lakes while the state has a land speed limt of 45mph for snowmos.

If there was no place to snowmo at 75mph, what happens to the demand for fast sleds?

Here's a link http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...NION/803210347
to an editorial in today's paper titled 'State's role shouldn't be to promote atv's.'

SBC · 03-24-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

And one has to wonder how much the NH Marine Trades Assoc, a lobbying assoc for boat sellers, & a regular and long time contributor to many Republican state legislators, had to do with the state's legal definition of a jetski...

Last year the legislature re-defined "ski craft" so as not to confuse the interpretation with those vessels we also know as Ski Nautique, Ski Boat, Moomba, Correct Craft, etc.

One really good spot to ski at Squam is Sturtevant Bay in Center Harbor.

Weirs guy · 03-24-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

If there was no place to snowmo at 75mph, what happens to the demand for fast sleds?

It doesn't change much, just like the demand for fast cars, and consenting adults still choose to go that fast when no one is looking. Its really a lot of fun, everyone should try it once!

03-12-2008, 11:18 AM	#1
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,974 Thanks: 246 Thanked 736 Times in 438 Posts	Can I take my boat on Squam Lake? My boat has sleeping berths and a head. I recall reading that boats equipped with these features are prohibited from Squam Lake. Is this true?

03-12-2008, 11:53 AM	#3
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Houseboat prohibition... Your boat would definitely meet the legal definition of a houseboat here in New Hampshire, thereby being prohibited on Squam and several other inland bodies of water: Restrictions on Boating Section 270:77 270:77 Squam and Conway Lakes and Silver Lake in Madison. – No person shall at any time place in or upon, or use, or operate upon, Squam Lake or Conway Lake or Silver Lake in Madison any houseboat. Whoever violates any provision of this section shall be guilty of a violation. Boards of health and health officers of towns abutting said lakes shall have power and authority to enforce the provisions of this section. Source. 1989, 339:2, eff. Jan. 1, 1990.

03-12-2008, 12:49 PM	#6
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	There is a list! You can't even put what is legally defined as a houseboat in Squam for the day! We are looking for a second place in the Lakes Region or Maine so I printed out the Marine Patrol list of restricted bodies of water. It's prevented me from jumping the gun on several properties. http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...estricted.html

03-12-2008, 01:28 PM	#8
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	cuddy versus porta potti/berthing Let me see if I can clarify this. If Dave has a cuddy with porta-potti, the MP has traditionally overlooked these types of craft as houseboats on the waters mentioned previously. However, in the case of Squam and the other lakes mentioned, local health officials along with regular law enforcement are empowered to enforce this RSA. Dave said he has a "head" and "sleeping berths". I took that description as meaning those features are permanent in nature. If so, then there is no gray area, Dave's boat is specifically prohibited from the aforementioned waterways. Hope this clears it up a little....

03-14-2008, 06:29 PM	#17
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Did anybody mention that Squam Lake which is actually two large lakes connected by the aprox 1/8 mile Squam River also has a total ban on the simply dreadfull jetski. No jetskis allowed at Squam, sorry to all strangers, ayuh! Ok, I'm ready to get five different legal reasons on why a three-seater jetski is a boat and not a jetski, which is a 1989 legal legacy left to New Hampshire pwc-ers that was created by the late, great, State Rep Mike Whalley of Bow, Alton Bay and HK Powersports. You can be sure that this session's legislature would not be approv'n any 3 seat jetski = boat rule. More likely, they'd be put'n a bounty on those noisy things, or pass a law requir'n that they sound just like a loon! Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Squam's ban on jetskis is what precipitated the 1989 cabal of the Republican grip on the legislature, Bow State Rep Mike Whalley, and the NH Marine Trades Assoc to cook up that 3 seats = boat rule. Yes, those were the days! ...time 8:19....waiting for the rest of the story to show up..... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 03-14-2008 at 07:43 PM.

03-12-2008, 11:41 AM	#2
winnidiver Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 54 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	http://www.squamlakeschamber.com/boating.php Here's your link and it says no.My son had my cuddy on Squam all summer two years ago and no one said anything.It does not have a head.But none asked either. I don't think you would have a problem with a day trip.

03-12-2008, 12:01 PM	#4
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	What is a houseboat? I'm having deja-vu all over again: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ight=houseboat

03-12-2008, 01:19 PM	#7
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,531 Thanks: 1,570 Thanked 1,607 Times in 822 Posts	Dave, I also used to have a cuddy with a chemical head docked on Squam and never had a problem. The bigger issue at Squam was that the SLA ramps only allow very low HP boats to use them. You will have to find a ramp. Squam Boat Livery (at the bridge) has one and I believe the ramp in the middle of the river separating Big and Little is public access with parking down the street. Squam is a beautiful lake and worth the aggravation if your boat is deemed OK.

03-12-2008, 02:22 PM	#9
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	If the boat has a port-a-potti that you remove prior to launch, is it still a "houseboat?"

03-13-2008, 09:15 AM	#12
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	This is a size restriction law camoflaged as a health law. Since larger boats almost always have heads and beds, they are effectively banned from Squam. This is not the first time or last time you will see this.

03-13-2008, 09:40 AM	#14
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,974 Thanks: 246 Thanked 736 Times in 438 Posts	Thanks folks. My porta-potti is firmly mounted and has pumpout plumbing permanently attached to the boat. Removing it will be fairly easy, but I find it disturbing that the state requires me to so. That just encourages me and my guests to relieve ourselves in Squam Lake. How odd...

03-14-2008, 01:50 PM	#15
masssteve Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: North Reading, MA & Laconia, NH Posts: 67 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Squam is like driving around in circles in the graveyard all day. Rocks everywere, nothing much to see, and you have to go from one marker to the next or your in trouble. Nice place for a canoe or a pontoon boat, quiet, not much to see but old camps and cottages. It is great for fishing if your into it. Make sure you have a map, a depthfinder, and perhaps an extra prop onboard.

03-14-2008, 07:44 PM	#18
Cal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pitman , NJ Posts: 627 Thanks: 40 Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts	Gee , sounds like a real nice place to kayak or canoe...imagine that. __________________ Paddle faster , I think I here banjos

The Following User Says Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
Alton Bay (11-18-2010)

03-15-2008, 07:06 AM	#20
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	New Hampshire had another 'red herring' rule similar to the '3 seat=boat, not jetski' rule. The New Hampshire Dept of Resources and Economic Development, DRED, had been wanting to classify atv's as snowmobiles so they would be able to use railroad tracks or corridors which by federal law are open only to snowmobiles and not atv's. Unfortunately, the federal agency involved just said no to New Hampshire wish to classify atv's same as snowmo's. And now thankfully, DRED along with www.LWSA.org is about to start construction on a community sailing facility on a lesser used end of the beautifull beach at Ellecoya State Park on Lake Winnipesaukee. I noticed that the Town of Gilford had an article in their recent election asking whether Gilford residents wanted to contribute $10,000. to the new community sailing home, and the vote was something like 200-yes vs 600-no. You can read all about it in the Concord Monitor. Between NH-NPR radio, and the Concord Monitor, what's happening to this state? A state run community sailing facility, a Winnipesaukee speed limit, and saying an atv is not a snowmo? Like, what exactly is happening here? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

03-20-2008, 03:36 PM	#26
Dave M Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 395 Thanks: 4 Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts	When you say SKI Craft, are you talking about a boat thats made for sking which has the motor in the middle. Don't understand why they are banned if you can water ski on Squam as long as you keep it under 40mph. Dave M

03-21-2008, 08:39 AM	#28
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	And one has to wonder how much the NH Marine Trades Assoc, a lobbying assoc for boat sellers, & a regular and long time contributor to many Republican state legislators, had to do with the state's legal definition of a jetski. Similarly, with regard to the lack of a speed limit on frozen lakes while the state has a land speed limt of 45mph for snowmos. If there was no place to snowmo at 75mph, what happens to the demand for fast sleds? Here's a link http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...NION/803210347 to an editorial in today's paper titled 'State's role shouldn't be to promote atv's.' __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!