Is This Normal Loon Activity?

Doyboy · 06-11-2008, 09:36 AM

Last Saturday my 5 year old son and I were watching a mother duck and her seven ducklings swimming just off the end of our dock when out of no where two loons (looking like torpedoes I must say) came up from under the water and attacked them. The first loon grabbed one of the ducklings and held it under the water with its feet while standing up and flapping its wings and doing the famous loon call. This loon shook the duckling until it was dead and then just left it there floating. While this was going on the mother duck rushed the other six ducklings away. After 30 seconds of relative calm the whole thing happened again out a little deeper with both loons involved now. In the end there were only three ducklings remaining and I'm afraid that my son isn't quite as enamored with loons as he used to be (he was very mad at the loons). Everyone I've told this story to is very surprised so I was just wondering if anyone else has seen this. Do they eat the ducklings? I know that the loons are very territorial and I must say that they were very impressive to watch with their underwater speed.

sa meredith · 06-11-2008, 10:08 AM

Wow! What a terrible thing to have seen. No thank you.
Somewhere in this forum, there is a thread about loons and their violent behavior. And what was stated there is consistent with what you saw. They attack from under water like torpedoes. And, it stated there, they attack each other the same way. Furthermore, it was stated, that their call is actually a battle cry. All of this seems consistent with the awful event you witnessed.

tis · 06-11-2008, 11:38 AM

Unfortunately I have heard that they do eat the baby ducks. It is sad, I agree. Somehow thinking that they only eat the fish seems easier.

CanisLupusArctos · 06-11-2008, 11:39 AM

Loons and ducks are in a constant state of feud, I've always heard. Loons attack them regularly. I have also heard that loons regularly dine on duck eggs. So do raccoons, which are also known for dragging other animals into the water and drowning them.

In a battle with ducks, the loons are the superior species that has been around longer. I hear the same kind of loon chatter at night, combined with splashing.

It's traumatic that your son had to be surprised by it, but should serve as a platform for you to explain to him how life/nature works. Big fish eat little fish, and sharks eat big fish, and so on... When I was little I got traumatized when I saw our cat eat a cute little chipmunk. Suddenly I thought our cat was "bad" but I got over it when I started learning that animals kill each other for food and compete for territory and resources as they each try to survive; they all live and they all die, and people are no different. Before my parents knew it, I was reading books about the Tyrannosaurus Rex and watching PBS shows with animals eating each other. (Discovery Channel wasn't around yet.)

Nature keeps itself in balance. Those ducks often swim by with a whole herd of chicks in early summer, and by mid-summer it's just a mother duck with one or two half-grown ducks. Usually the animals that lose the most number of babies have the most number of babies so there's always a couple that survive.

Funny "duck" story about how times and attitudes change - my dad likes to tell the story about the time he brought his grandmother up to the lake soon after he got the place in the 60s. She was raised in the 1880s, and was in her 90s when she saw my dad out on the dock feeding the ducks. She got furious and yelled at Dad for not catching and cooking them. "Don't you realize that's FOOD?" She'd been brought up prior to the era of mass-produced food trucked in from afar.

Orion · 06-12-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanisLupusArctos

Loons and ducks are in a constant state of feud, I've always heard. Loons attack them regularly. I have also heard that loons regularly dine on duck eggs.

Seems that it would be difficult for loons to reach duck eggs since ducks nest away from the waters edge and loons can't really travel over land. They barely can drag themselves out of the water since their legs are too far back for balance on land.

woodswalk · 06-12-2008, 08:11 AM

Over the years, I've seen loons kill adult ducks on three different occasions. One thing in common was the fact that the ducks were in the general area of one of the loons regular feeding areas. This time of year there are certain spots where large schools of small perch will hang out setting the table with easy pickins for some very happy birds.

EllyPoinster · 06-12-2008, 09:52 AM

I've seen a loon attack a full-grown Canadian goose from below driving it out of the water. That goose cowered on the shore for a long time afterward.

Hey - maybe that's where the verb "goose" comes from.

–verb (used with object) 9. Slang. to poke (a person) between the buttocks to startle.

nj2nh · 06-12-2008, 10:48 AM

How horrible! I am not so enamored with loons anymore either as we love watching those baby ducks grow during the summer.

On the other hand, I hate Canadian Geese. The loons are free to do with them as they will, but not to the babies.

nj2nh

Merrymeeting · 06-12-2008, 11:39 AM

nj2nh,

If you ever experience duck itch, you might change your mind on the ducklings too!

HUH · 06-12-2008, 08:38 PM

Loons are very territorial.. they also take over each others territories and kill chicks. Most of the crying you hear is territory marking.

wildwoodfam · 06-13-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nj2nh

How horrible! I am not so enamored with loons anymore either as we love watching those baby ducks grow during the summer.

On the other hand, I hate Canadian Geese. The loons are free to do with them as they will, but not to the babies.

nj2nh

Sorry that's a common mistake. But, they are a species of geese, not a nationality!

nj2nh · 06-14-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildwoodfam

Sorry that's a common mistake. But, they are a species of geese, not a nationality!

Hey, now wait a minute. Some of my best friends are Canadian!

But not their geese. No one gave them a passport or a visa and I want them to GO HOME.

It is a species of geese I can totally do without. I don't see them much up there at the lake, but down here in Jersey there are a nightmare. You can't even walk let alone play in a public park without encountering tons (literally) of their remnants. It is really a public health problem.

So, if there are any loons up there who would like to come down here and deal with the problem since dogs, owls and screeching sound-systems don't work, they would be more than welcome!

Sorry for "hijacking" the thread. You may now return to your regularly scheduled conversation.

nj2nh

CanisLupusArctos · 06-16-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

Seems that it would be difficult for loons to reach duck eggs since ducks nest away from the waters edge and loons can't really travel over land. They barely can drag themselves out of the water since their legs are too far back for balance on land.

Oops, guess I heard wrong. This thread has some interesting info about loons.

One thing I noticed last summer showed how hardy they are. The local bald eagle loves to swoop down over Black Cat Shoals and send the seagulls scattering in a cloud of feathers. Last summer he had just done that when he saw a loon in the water ahead of him and decided, "I'll swoop down on him, too!" Ol' Loony wasn't about to allow Ol' Baldy to look superior. He reared up and flapped as loons do, and made the chatter in rebellion at the same time as Baldy swooped 12 inches overhead, making his eagle sound. It made me wonder which one would win, if they decided to engage.

lakershaker · 06-17-2008, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nj2nh

It is a species of geese I can totally do without. I don't see them much up there at the lake, but down here in Jersey there are a nightmare.

In all my years at the lake, I would have agreed with you before this past week. I had never seen the geese up here, and even down in CT where there are more of them than any other bird it seems, I have never seen them in the water. However, on Wednesday, we were driving by boat to Wolfeboro when I saw a whole flock of the Canada Geese in the water. As we got closer, the whole group rose as one and flew down Wolfeboro bay over the town. It was pretty impressive to see 20-30 giant birds rise as one, and they were flying faster than our boat was going, but I agree that we can do without them up here!

2Blackdogs · 06-22-2008, 01:00 PM

CLA, it may have been a draw, the Loon and the Bald Eagle. But Bald Eagles will try to capture even larger birds, like Great Blue Herons and this Swan, who got away missing some feathers.

Skipper of the Sea Que · 06-22-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

CLA, it may have been a draw, the Loon and the Bald Eagle. But Bald Eagles will try to capture even larger birds, like Great Blue Herons and this Swan, who got away missing some feathers.

Great shot 2Blackdogs.

Where was this taken? Around here your home area or someplace else?
Your location is not (yet) listed with your forum profile.

Thanks for sharing the picture with us. This site has quite a collection of spectacular photos.

2Blackdogs · 06-22-2008, 08:16 PM

It's one of a spectacular series taken by a lakefront resort owner who feeds the local swans. The location is Lake Ise, Terrace, British Columbia.

I'll post the series to a Bald Eagle thread at a later time.

My thought on the Loon behavior is that it may be a local event. Loons may all look alike, but birds also have different personalities at different times in their lifespans. They change from typical juvenile behavior, such as where you'll see several non-breeding males diving together, suggesting cooperative fishing.

That all changes with maturity, where bonding, feeding, and responsibility for a successful brood brings defensive posturing and aggression such as described prior. Even then, based on variations in individual bird behavior I've seen, I'd expect some variability in behavior among individual Loons.

NightWing · 06-22-2008, 09:33 PM

The name is not Canadian Geese. They are Canada Geese.

HUH · 06-23-2008, 08:23 AM

Heres a very interesting study done on aggressive Loon behavior. Not sure what the first paragraph is, you have to scroll down a bit.
http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v09...0183-p0186.pdf

2Blackdogs · 06-30-2008, 08:51 AM

The first is the swan in flight, minding his own business. At 60", it is twice the size of a loon.

The eagle, somewhat larger than the loon's 30", has made contact in the second photo. The release of feathers suggests that the eagle tried to grasp further up on the swan.

The following photos show the eagle trying to hold on to the swan's foot with a very determined "look".

Finally, the swan breaks free, floats away, and hides under a dock to recover from some puncture wounds.

Was this a territory issue or food issue? Great Blue Herons are known to be on the Bald Eagle's dinner plate, and they are 46".

Two photos in the sequence have been left out for brevity. This did not occur near Lake Winni so a new thread would be inappropriate. The "edit" option is not working for me to insert these into my previous post as intended.

Since the loon is a strong and deep diving bird, a Bald Eagle would probably not try this on a loon in open water.

06-11-2008, 09:36 AM	#1
Doyboy Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wolfeboro, NH and Reading, MA Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Is This Normal Loon Activity? Last Saturday my 5 year old son and I were watching a mother duck and her seven ducklings swimming just off the end of our dock when out of no where two loons (looking like torpedoes I must say) came up from under the water and attacked them. The first loon grabbed one of the ducklings and held it under the water with its feet while standing up and flapping its wings and doing the famous loon call. This loon shook the duckling until it was dead and then just left it there floating. While this was going on the mother duck rushed the other six ducklings away. After 30 seconds of relative calm the whole thing happened again out a little deeper with both loons involved now. In the end there were only three ducklings remaining and I'm afraid that my son isn't quite as enamored with loons as he used to be (he was very mad at the loons). Everyone I've told this story to is very surprised so I was just wondering if anyone else has seen this. Do they eat the ducklings? I know that the loons are very territorial and I must say that they were very impressive to watch with their underwater speed.

06-11-2008, 10:08 AM	#2
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	might be normal Wow! What a terrible thing to have seen. No thank you. Somewhere in this forum, there is a thread about loons and their violent behavior. And what was stated there is consistent with what you saw. They attack from under water like torpedoes. And, it stated there, they attack each other the same way. Furthermore, it was stated, that their call is actually a battle cry. All of this seems consistent with the awful event you witnessed.

06-12-2008, 08:11 AM	#6
woodswalk Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: GIW NH Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	yikes! Over the years, I've seen loons kill adult ducks on three different occasions. One thing in common was the fact that the ducks were in the general area of one of the loons regular feeding areas. This time of year there are certain spots where large schools of small perch will hang out setting the table with easy pickins for some very happy birds.

06-12-2008, 10:48 AM	#8
nj2nh Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 518 Thanks: 62 Thanked 42 Times in 23 Posts	How horrible! I am not so enamored with loons anymore either as we love watching those baby ducks grow during the summer. On the other hand, I hate Canadian Geese. The loons are free to do with them as they will, but not to the babies. nj2nh __________________

06-12-2008, 08:38 PM	#10
HUH Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 230 Thanks: 21 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	The violent lives of loons Loons are very territorial.. they also take over each others territories and kill chicks. Most of the crying you hear is territory marking.

06-11-2008, 11:38 AM	#3
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,405 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,379 Times in 955 Posts	Unfortunately I have heard that they do eat the baby ducks. It is sad, I agree. Somehow thinking that they only eat the fish seems easier.

06-11-2008, 11:39 AM	#4
CanisLupusArctos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,049 Thanks: 15 Thanked 472 Times in 107 Posts	Loons and ducks are in a constant state of feud, I've always heard. Loons attack them regularly. I have also heard that loons regularly dine on duck eggs. So do raccoons, which are also known for dragging other animals into the water and drowning them. In a battle with ducks, the loons are the superior species that has been around longer. I hear the same kind of loon chatter at night, combined with splashing. It's traumatic that your son had to be surprised by it, but should serve as a platform for you to explain to him how life/nature works. Big fish eat little fish, and sharks eat big fish, and so on... When I was little I got traumatized when I saw our cat eat a cute little chipmunk. Suddenly I thought our cat was "bad" but I got over it when I started learning that animals kill each other for food and compete for territory and resources as they each try to survive; they all live and they all die, and people are no different. Before my parents knew it, I was reading books about the Tyrannosaurus Rex and watching PBS shows with animals eating each other. (Discovery Channel wasn't around yet.) Nature keeps itself in balance. Those ducks often swim by with a whole herd of chicks in early summer, and by mid-summer it's just a mother duck with one or two half-grown ducks. Usually the animals that lose the most number of babies have the most number of babies so there's always a couple that survive. Funny "duck" story about how times and attitudes change - my dad likes to tell the story about the time he brought his grandmother up to the lake soon after he got the place in the 60s. She was raised in the 1880s, and was in her 90s when she saw my dad out on the dock feeding the ducks. She got furious and yelled at Dad for not catching and cooking them. "Don't you realize that's FOOD?" She'd been brought up prior to the era of mass-produced food trucked in from afar.

06-12-2008, 09:52 AM	#7
EllyPoinster Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 160 Thanks: 13 Thanked 25 Times in 20 Posts	I've seen a loon attack a full-grown Canadian goose from below driving it out of the water. That goose cowered on the shore for a long time afterward. Hey - maybe that's where the verb "goose" comes from. –verb (used with object) 9. Slang. to poke (a person) between the buttocks to startle.

06-12-2008, 11:39 AM	#9
Merrymeeting Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrymeeting Lake, New Durham Posts: 2,217 Thanks: 299 Thanked 795 Times in 365 Posts	nj2nh, If you ever experience duck itch, you might change your mind on the ducklings too!

06-22-2008, 01:00 PM	#15
2Blackdogs Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	CLA, it may have been a draw, the Loon and the Bald Eagle. But Bald Eagles will try to capture even larger birds, like Great Blue Herons and this Swan, who got away missing some feathers. Attached Images

06-22-2008, 08:16 PM	#17
2Blackdogs Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's one of a spectacular series taken by a lakefront resort owner who feeds the local swans. The location is Lake Ise, Terrace, British Columbia. I'll post the series to a Bald Eagle thread at a later time. My thought on the Loon behavior is that it may be a local event. Loons may all look alike, but birds also have different personalities at different times in their lifespans. They change from typical juvenile behavior, such as where you'll see several non-breeding males diving together, suggesting cooperative fishing. That all changes with maturity, where bonding, feeding, and responsibility for a successful brood brings defensive posturing and aggression such as described prior. Even then, based on variations in individual bird behavior I've seen, I'd expect some variability in behavior among individual Loons.

06-22-2008, 09:33 PM	#18
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	The name is not Canadian Geese. They are Canada Geese.

06-23-2008, 08:23 AM	#19
HUH Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 230 Thanks: 21 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Loon Behavior Heres a very interesting study done on aggressive Loon behavior. Not sure what the first paragraph is, you have to scroll down a bit. http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v09...0183-p0186.pdf

06-30-2008, 08:51 AM	#20
2Blackdogs Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The first is the swan in flight, minding his own business. At 60", it is twice the size of a loon. The eagle, somewhat larger than the loon's 30", has made contact in the second photo. The release of feathers suggests that the eagle tried to grasp further up on the swan. The following photos show the eagle trying to hold on to the swan's foot with a very determined "look". Finally, the swan breaks free, floats away, and hides under a dock to recover from some puncture wounds. Was this a territory issue or food issue? Great Blue Herons are known to be on the Bald Eagle's dinner plate, and they are 46". Two photos in the sequence have been left out for brevity. This did not occur near Lake Winni so a new thread would be inappropriate. The "edit" option is not working for me to insert these into my previous post as intended. Since the loon is a strong and deep diving bird, a Bald Eagle would probably not try this on a loon in open water. Attached Images