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Old 09-02-2007, 11:24 AM   #1
sa meredith
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Default Boat Sinking?????

I read a small piece in the local paper this morning (The Eagle Tribune, out of North Andover MA) that a boat out of Windham, NH completely sank on lake Winni yesterday. 8 people on board, all survived, no injuries reported. Few details, other than to say the boat was a Cobalt and was "a good size bow rider", incident occured at approx. 11:30 AM, and was caused by a swell that filled the bow, and the boat contined to take on water. Story goes on to say the boat came to rest in 100 feet of water and was being recovered today...

Wondering if anyone witnessed this event and has more details...
Was the lake THAT ROUGH yesterday??? I was up on Thursday, and cruised from Paugus Bay to Wolfeboro and never saw so much as a single swell of any size....smooth the whole way.
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:44 AM   #2
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Default It was breezy....

Came back from breakfast and food shopping in Wolfeboro around that time and saw two small sailboats capsized within a 1/4 mile of each other -- one already had a jetski and another boat assisting. The other was over near Parker Island. We stopped by him to see if he wanted assistance but he didn't.

There were 3 ft rollers out there, but I wouldn't call the conditions extreme by any means. Been in much worse on the Broads. Does require some patience and experience to manage those conditions. Glad no one was hurt.
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Old 09-02-2007, 12:29 PM   #3
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Default

The same story was in the Citizen today...

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...043/-1/CITIZEN

Winds at Black Cat yesterday were averaging 6 mph gusting to 15 mph at the time, which was the windiest observation of the day. The wind direction was from the Northwest, blowing down the lake toward Rattlesnake where it occurred, so it's safe to assume the wind could have doubled in speed over open water by the time it got there. Wave heights here were about 1-1.5 feet, with whitecaps. Again, they would've gained some height by the time they got down to Rattlesnake.

They were lucky the hot and humid weather came back long enough to raise up the water temp back to the mid-70s. In the cold spell of last month it dropped into the upper 60s.
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Old 09-02-2007, 04:28 PM   #4
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Wind being blown over the surface of water (from Black Cat to Rattlesnake) will NOT speed up over a long distance.

According to iwindsurf.com, the wind at 11am Satruday in Laconia averaged 13mph with puffs (gusts) to 26mph out of the WSW. Those kinds of winds can produce occasional 3-5 foot waves (with whitecaps).

Since one poster witnessed two boats capsized at the same time*, it should be safe to assume that the wind was very gusty. When the wind is gusty, the waves created by those gusts are much closer together (more dangerous).
Although not the most pleasant ride, a 20+ footer should be able to survive those conditions. Obviously, this Cobalt wasn't.

There were also 8 people in the boat. Depending on the size, it may have been close to being overloaded.

I don't have an opinion yet, but I bet the final verdict will be inexperience for the conditions by the skipper of the boat.

APS, were you out sailing on Saturday? Perhaps you would know what the conditions were like?

*On a side note, if anyone sees a small boat capsized (~15 feet), they most likely know exactly what they are doing, and you should STAY AWAY at least 50 feet in all directions unless they are making it obvious that they need help. Too many stories of ripped sails and props tangled up in rigging.
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Old 09-02-2007, 04:48 PM   #5
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Remember, its Labor Day Weekend, everyone leaves their common sense at home
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Old 09-02-2007, 05:50 PM   #6
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I wonder if there were alot of passengers in the seats located in the bow of this bowrider. It always make me concerned to see the bow on bowridera loaded up with passengers, as I think it would be easy to dunk the bow when overloaded. Overloaded in the bow plus good sized swells = trouble.

I also thought all boats built after 1971 were required to contain flotation enough to keep them from going to the bottom.
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Old 09-02-2007, 06:36 PM   #7
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Default Bowrider

Hi All,
If anyone has info on whether or the boat has actually been located please post for me here on the Forum or send me an email-I'd be interested in scannng for it-also info on its whereabouts of course; Rattlesnake is huge and after the side-scan work I did last year off Rattlesnake looking for Fred Surrette I know exactly how deep it can be around there;

The Eagle Tribune reports "...the Bowrider was being pulled to the surface to make sure the accident wasn't caused by a structural problem..."; They called it a Cobalt;
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Old 09-02-2007, 06:53 PM   #8
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We went up on the Broad's side of Rattlesnake today around 11AM or so. Saw a couple of Sea Tow boats near the Eastern tip. Maybe that's where it went down?

We were also out for a bit yesterday though not near that area. We anchored behind Timber Island for a couple hours and found the ride back to the Weirs very choppy from the wind.

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Old 09-02-2007, 06:58 PM   #9
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Default My feeling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver1111

The Eagle Tribune reports "...the Bowrider was being pulled to the surface to make sure the accident wasn't caused by a structural problem..."; They called it a Cobalt;
I can't imagine there wasn't a structural problem.... Boats are designed.... or a least used to be designed with enough flotation so that even full of water they would not completely sink. Kind of a safty feature.... now if there is a breach in the hull and water gets into what is supposed a dry cavity then you have a problem.....

Have Boat designers abandoned the principles of old?

Now knowing how deep the water is over by Rattlesnake I can't imagine recovery is going to be a simple task......
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Old 09-02-2007, 07:04 PM   #10
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Cobalt Boats doesn't exactly make poor quality boats. Also, I believe an above poster is right: even full of water, the hull would still have enough positive buoyancy to stay at or just below the surface. I hadn't thought of that.

Maybe it was a case of attempted insurance fraud? It IS one of the deepest parts of the lake....
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Old 09-02-2007, 07:44 PM   #11
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Default I'll set the record straight

Winnipesaukee...You're an **** and I expect a full written apology for your stupid and inconsiderate words.

I was on that boat with the other family. If you think we'd risk our kid's and wive's lives for the insurance, you're even stupider than most of your posts. The boat was a 6 hour old Cobalt 246. (A leftover from Thurstons) and it was definately an issue with the boat. It is rated for 15 people. The 4 kids weigh around 100 lbs or less.

The boat suffered a catostrophic failure (of the hull, something not tightened or something, We'll only know when it is recovered). I've logged 200 hours in the past three years on Winnipesaukee and while the waves weren't calm, I've seen worse.

Someday, I'll write the full story of what happened and how some kind people came to our aid. The comments made by a few idiots in this forum made me too angry to do that at this time.

Note: If your Cobalt fills with water, it may sink fast just like this one did. As the skipper's daughter said....just like the Titanic.

On positive buoyancy.....Government regulations and Cobalt only provide positive buoyancy up to 21 feet. (So says Thurston's staff when we asked them at the urging of Marine Patrol)
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_guy64
Winnipesaukee...You're an **** and I expect a full written apology for your stupid and inconsiderate words....

...you're even stupider than most of your posts...

...a few idiots in this forum .

I expect a written apology for your blatant disrespect on this public, family forum and will be writing the Webmaster regarding your outburst. My comment was semi-sarcastic, as we on this forum know niether many of the facts, nor who it was who sunk the boat, and our comments were just based on the little information we had.

Under other circumstances, I'd write my opinion on how a new boat should never experience a "catastrophic failure," and that it is the responsibility of the skipper to inspect his boat before shoving off, but feel that would enrage you further, so I digress.

Enough of that.

Canis, regarding the wind, you are absolutely right. Winds can be very different on different parts of the lake because of the topography. A fine example of this is a section of the Columbia River called "The Gorge." It has canyon walls on both sides, and commonly, the pressure on each side is different, creating wind, which is channeled between the rocks. So if you are standing on the top of the canyon, the wind might only be 10 knots, but at the bottom on the water it might be 30. The sailing is amazing there.

Wind is a very tricky thing. I don't know where your wind meter is set up, but on many, there may be errors due to wind shadows (if you house is east of the meter and the wind happens to be coming from the east, the house may block the wind from the meter.) The general rule of thumb is if something is blocking wind, a meter must be 4 object-heights away from it to get "clean air." So if a house is 10 feet tall, the meter must be 40 feet away.

Okay. Enough wind talk.
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee
I expect a written apology for your blatant disrespect on this public, family forum and will be writing the Webmaster regarding your outburst. My comment was semi-sarcastic, as we on this forum know niether many of the facts, nor who it was who sunk the boat, and our comments were just based on the little information we had.

Under other circumstances, I'd write my opinion on how a new boat should never experience a "catastrophic failure," and that it is the responsibility of the skipper to inspect his boat before shoving off, but feel that would enrage you further, so I digress.

Enough of that.
If you were 10% as knowledgeable as you think, you would be aware of this article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee
Maybe it was a case of attempted insurance fraud? It IS one of the deepest parts of the lake....
Knowing that four children were involved and making your comment would definitely make you the south end of a north bound horse.

The answer to a new boat should never experience a "catastrophic failure" is a good law firm.
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:43 PM   #14
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"Wow" this has gotten sort of ugly. I don't mean to touch any nerves here, but could it be possible (as I have seen what I am about to suggest first hand) that someone forgot to "tighten" the drain plug before launching? I know it sounds like boating 101, but mistakes can and do happen.
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:11 PM   #15
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edit: nevermind. Incorrect math.

Whatever the reason, there is now up to 70 gallons of gasoline in the Lake...
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:53 AM   #16
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boat guy 64,
Glad you and your family are OK. I am not sure I would have been clear headed enough to make my response g rated as you did. When a brand new boat has a catastrophic failure, I have to bet on the probability it was not something the new owners did wrong. It will be interesting to see what went so terribly wrong.

Again. First and foremost we are glad everyone is OK.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:02 AM   #17
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Default I second this post!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy
boat guy 64,
Glad you and your family are OK. I am not sure I would have been clear headed enough to make my response g rated as you did. When a brand new boat has a catastrophic failure, I have to bet on the probability it was not something the new owners did wrong. It will be interesting to see what went so terribly wrong.
First and foremost we should all be glad everyone is OK.

RG is correct... let the experts figure out the reason.. while we all celebrate the fact that all are safe. Cudos to the folks that stopped and helped..

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...043/-1/CITIZEN
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:14 AM   #18
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So is that what we saw yesterday red buoys and two boats? At first we thought it had to do with the sailboat race, then thought someone must be diving as the tow boat had a diver's flag on it. It is so deep there, I wonder if they will find it?
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:28 AM   #19
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Default wow!

As the starter of this thread, I never thought we would actually hear from someone who was in the boat.
Boat guy64...that must of been a terrible thing to experience. As a new boater (4 years) I can't begin to imagine what it would be like at the moment you realize the boat is taking on water. Tragic. Glad everyone is OK.
"Winnipasaukee"...I gotta say, I think you are an ***hole. INSURANCE FRAUD????!!!!! With 8 people on board, including children? And not knowing all the facts? I found your first posting odd as well...something about "overloaded". At that point, noone knew the size of the boat. We did know, however, that all eight people had quick access to their life vest. That should have been a clue that the captain had a good sense of responsibility. You actually wrote "I bet the final verdict will have something to do with inexperience by the skipper...." How dare you? Gather the facts first...as I tried to do when I started the thread. You are a jerk!
Lastly, you write..."whatever he case, there is now 70 gallons of gas in the lake" decent point, but how about wishing well to the 2 families who were on the boat. By the way, an apology is certainly due from you.
People could have died thru no fault of their own...
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:28 AM   #20
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Post Cobalt Sinking

This was the view yesterday off Rattlesnake Is. of the search for the sunk Cobalt. I am very glad everyone survived and I thank the boater(s) who came to the peoples rescue. I am waiting to hear what caused the sinking.

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Old 09-03-2007, 04:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee
I expect a written apology for your blatant disrespect on this public, family forum and will be writing the Webmaster regarding your outburst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee
I don't think I'll be posting anymore on this issue until we see some sort of definitive investigation report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee
I hope to get proficient enough with the T to race it in the Statue of Liberty Race and represent the lake with "Lake Winnipesaukee, NH" in vinyl on each side, under the name (which I still can't decide on).
I would prefer that the Lake not be represented by the south end of a north bound horse.

Also, try being proficient in apologizing.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:32 PM   #22
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Default What Really Happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_guy64 View Post
...I was on that boat with the other family...Someday, I'll write the full story of what happened...
It's been almost three years. Do you or the owner of the boat know what really caused the boat to sink? Have you or the owner seen the MP report? I'm still curious as are many others.
Thanks.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy View Post
It's been almost three years. Do you or the owner of the boat know what really caused the boat to sink? Have you or the owner seen the MP report? I'm still curious as are many others.
Thanks.
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady223 View Post
That is persistence SCG!
Inquiring minds want to know!!!
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:50 AM   #25
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Unless you get a copy of the report, I doubt you'll ever hear anything. Skip said the report would be freely available if you don't remove it from the building. I don't know if he ever got a chance to read it or not.

You will never hear anything from someone with a shattered ego after an experience like that. I'm quite sure many, many people saw the boat after it was reclaimed from the bottom.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:15 AM   #26
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Let me just say this.... what does it really matter what happened. What matter, is that the capt got everyone off the boat and everyone was rescued, That is the bottom line.

Now because of insurance, and blame, and fault, etc, etc, etc, and expensive operation was undertaken to recover the boat from over 100 feet off water... in my mind that boat could have just been left. There wasn't enough gas or oil to worry about poisoning the lake it would of slow dispersed to the top of the lake and evaporated.

But the boat was raised, and was hauled off for investigation, the investigation was done and reports where written. Now if the results where anything but weather, of operator error, or some fluke accident I am sure there would have been note worthy new reports. If Cobalt had a defective hull, or Thurston's Service dept. had made a mistake the reports and gossip would have run wild, they didn't....

My guess, is that something totally innocent happened that day out of the control of the capt of the vessel, that cause water entry...a bellows tear, a hull fitting not properly sealed that finally reached a critical point. The problems are numerous.

The bottom line is this... the investigation probably showed that it was a series of issues that lead to the problem, that no one entity was the culprit, and unfortunately, an accident occurred.

Let all hope that if something like that happens to any one of use, that we are able to keep are cool and keep everyone safe.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
Let me just say this.... what does it really matter what happened. What matter, is that the capt got everyone off the boat and everyone was rescued, That is the bottom line.

Now because of insurance, and blame, and fault, etc, etc, etc, and expensive operation was undertaken to recover the boat from over 100 feet off water... in my mind that boat could have just been left. There wasn't enough gas or oil to worry about poisoning the lake it would of slow dispersed to the top of the lake and evaporated.

But the boat was raised, and was hauled off for investigation, the investigation was done and reports where written. Now if the results where anything but weather, of operator error, or some fluke accident I am sure there would have been note worthy new reports. If Cobalt had a defective hull, or Thurston's Service dept. had made a mistake the reports and gossip would have run wild, they didn't....

My guess, is that something totally innocent happened that day out of the control of the capt of the vessel, that cause water entry...a bellows tear, a hull fitting not properly sealed that finally reached a critical point. The problems are numerous.

The bottom line is this... the investigation probably showed that it was a series of issues that lead to the problem, that no one entity was the culprit, and unfortunately, an accident occurred.

Let all hope that if something like that happens to any one of use, that we are able to keep are cool and keep everyone safe.
After I read this thread I sent and email to Four Winns asking about bouyancy (22 ft boat). The basically said they only guarantee positive bouyancy equal to the weight listed on the plate. If you get swamped and exceed it, down she goes.......
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:09 PM   #28
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Default Operator

I'm sorry but I will be shocked if it was not operator error. I think that BR scooped water. I can't believe that short of the outdrive falling off leaving a huge hole that any other opening (transducer) etc would overcome the bilge pump.

If there is a lesson to be learned- trim up (just a few degrees) and keep your bow cover on when the weather gets rough. That open bow creates a giant scoop.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:18 AM   #29
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Default ego

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
Unless you get a copy of the report, I doubt you'll ever hear anything. Skip said the report would be freely available if you don't remove it from the building. I don't know if he ever got a chance to read it or not.

You will never hear anything from someone with a shattered ego after an experience like that. I'm quite sure many, many people saw the boat after it was reclaimed from the bottom.
Shattered ego aside...there is something to be learned from this. If post 301 is indeed accurate (many PMs to me saying they heard the same thing) , people need to realize, myself included, that a bow rider (even a good size Cobalt), in the broads, loaded very close to/slightly over capacity, on a day when the lake is crazy ugly, is a dangerous proposition.
On this particular day, I believe swells were over 3', very windy, and 8 passengers aboard. Certainly not a disaster waiting to happen, but the situation warrents extreme caution, and proper precautuons need to be taken.
This is in no way meant to a negative post toward those families...the fact that they all had PFDs is evidence of a good captain...but once that nose dipped...just too late. A wake up call for everyone else.
Again, possibly my info is wrong, and there was a boat issue.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:45 AM   #30
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Default What I heard

I heard there was an issue with the transducer on the boat. My recollection is the selling marina could never have known about it. It was a construction issue that didn't come to light until the boat was stressed in open waters.

QUALIFYING LANGUAGE:
Please note that I don't actually know if Cobalt boats have a transducer that goes through the hull. I heard this from someone that owns a marina on Lake Winni (not Thurston's) that I'd rather not name just because I value that friendship and don't want to inadvertantly get someone in trouble.

If this isn't a possible explanation please feel free to challenge it. I'm only sharing what I had heard from a source I personally believe is reliable/honest because I believe some folks here may find it interesting/helpful.
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Old 09-02-2007, 08:30 PM   #31
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee
Wind being blown over the surface of water (from Black Cat to Rattlesnake) will NOT speed up over a long distance.

According to iwindsurf.com, the wind at 11am Satruday in Laconia averaged 13mph with puffs (gusts) to 26mph out of the WSW. Those kinds of winds can produce occasional 3-5 foot waves (with whitecaps).
Laconia and anywhere on the lake's NW-SE runway that is the longest, straightest part of the MOUNT's route experience very different weather at times. This can include large discrepancies in wind speed and direction as well as temperature. It can be a different world out here. (see thread called "I've never seen the lake like this.")

To illustrate this, last week there was a day when the wind howled straight up the lake all afternoon - from Rattlesnake to Black Cat - with 3 foot waves crashing up on the shore as I watched. The wind here was 18 mph gusting to 26, and at the same time the wind was not more than 7 mph at Laconia or Plymouth... on Mount Washington's summit the wind was just 3 mph at the time. If I wasn't physically here I might've thought my instruments were misreading. However, considering that I was watching my stuff starting to blow off the dock and a few leafy twigs fly past the kitchen window, I would say probably not. Just to be sure I checked those other stations again - they were all current, all reporting light winds.

Local topography has a huge effect on weather, including the bending of wind direction to its liking. It's one of the reasons the computer models have such a hard time with New England's weather - so many dominant wind directions, so much topography, not enough disk space for numbers to accurately represent it all.

Open water may not speed wind up - trees and dirt and mountains slow wind down. From here to Rattlesnake is 10 miles, straight shot. For an inland area, that's a long way for wind to go without hitting any obstructions.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:15 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_guy_64
"...Note: If your Cobalt fills with water, it may sink fast just like this one did. As the skipper's daughter said....just like the Titanic...On positive buoyancy.....Government regulations and Cobalt only provide positive buoyancy up to 21 feet. (So says Thurston's staff when we asked them at the urging of Marine Patrol)..."
The "Extreme Boat" websites all urge that Internet disclosures of boating incidents—such as yours—shouldn't be made. Websites are checked by insurance company lawyers for consistency in witness' testimony.

It's good advice, IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee
"...APS, were you out sailing on Saturday? Perhaps you would know what the conditions were like...?"
The wind was too blustery to risk a capsize on a weekend.

I watched cruising sailboats twice my boat's size turn around and go home. My good buddy across the harbor sailed up to my dock—didn't attempt to stop—and scooted back home in his oceanworthy ~24-foot Cape Dory Typhoon.

Like most lakes, the winds were just too inconsistent: as CLA states, topography rules on lakes.

Sometimes I miss the smooth consistency of ocean breezes, but at least lakeside, I can "pick my days" for an enjoyable sailing day.
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Old 09-03-2007, 05:56 PM   #33
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Arrow Example of the Lake on Saturday

My wife and I were out on the Sea Que Saturday. Around 11:45AM I turned on the VHF and scanner I heard the tail end of "something" off of Rattlesnake. Now I know what it was. We were out in an area bounded by Welch Island, Diamond I and Sandy Island starting around noon. The waves were wind driven and it was pretty choppy. Around 1:30 we headed to the Weirs and saw a fair number of boats on the way. Near the tip of Gov I near Weirs Bay we noted these fishermen in the low boat and tried to get a picture to show the size of the waves vs their boat.




Large version of this shot

Off to their right (out of this shot) was a boat pulling a tube.

Very glad that no one was hurt in the sinking by Rattlesnake.
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:14 PM   #34
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Great sailing weather.
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:49 PM   #35
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I'm glad no one was hurt. One big reason is that they all had life jackets.

When there's steady wind from anywhere near north, the wind comes down the broads and builds up some serious waves between Parker and Rattlesnake. I've made that crossing in bow rider before and it can be very scary. One wave a little bigger than you expect can make life interesting. Now add any kind of a mechanical problem on top of that, and things can get real bad in a hurry.

I've had bad weather and I've had mechnical problems, luckily I never had both at the same time.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:12 PM   #36
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Default Zillions of boats

I was coming from Wolfboro to circle Rattlesnake around 2:00pm yesterday, and while the water was rough, it certainly wasn't as bad as I'd seen before. I didn't really think the wind was bad. But, what caught my attention was the number of boats on the water. I don't believe I have ever seen so many boats, especially big cruisers, on the water before at the same time. Incredible. I attributed most of the wave action to that.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:25 PM   #37
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Default Has the boat been retreived??

Has the boat been retreived?? Glad all are ok!!
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:24 PM   #38
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Winnipesaukee:

I just read this thread. You were dead wrong. You subsequently acknowledged this in one of your last posts, but stopped short of apologizing to boat guy 64. You still owe him an apology. I think everyone on the board would think better of you if you apologized.

The variations on the lake are amazing. I was off the past two weeks and went out 3 or 4 days when there was absolutely no chop on the water. Wonderful conditions to say the least. I staid in this weekend due to the crowds and the 10-15MPH winds called for on the weather channel. Sounds like I made the right call.
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:45 PM   #39
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Default boat capsizing

I also am glad that all were safe. I can recall in New London Harbor (CT) one summer while teasing my daughter who was sitting in the bow of my bow rider, I decided to get her sprayed. I picked on one wave larger than needed and that wave came over the bow, and over the windshield. To say she got sprayed was too say the least. The water just about filled my boat, I had a large McDonalds cup, and that is what I used to bail the boat. Someone said something about seeing water coming in I will tell you it is scarey and I did not ever pull that joke again.
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:51 AM   #40
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I,too read this thread for the first time.....and Winni.....you definately owe him an apology.I know you were only thinking out loud,but that was a little hurtful.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:33 AM   #41
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Diver1111, what the heck would we do without you?
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Old 09-05-2007, 01:38 PM   #42
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Got a call from Gal today that the search activity has restarted today around 11 am. She promised to take some pics. Hopefully today will yield some favorable results for what appears to be a difficult recovery. My news hound has a ring side seat.
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Old 09-05-2007, 03:02 PM   #43
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Unhappy Missing Cobalt

The search appears to continue. The area seems to have shifted slightly and expanded since this morning. Hopefully Diver1111 will have some luck locating the boat.
4:15 pm

Last edited by Rattlesnake Gal; 09-05-2007 at 03:40 PM. Reason: Add photo
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:18 PM   #44
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Winnipesaukee,

Why is it with each of your posts you half apologize and then you finish by putting your foot back in your mouth? Doesn't your mouth get sore after a while?

I suggest you stop blaming the captain until you know why the boat sank. (I feel sorry for any defendant that ends up with you on the jury.)

We're talking a brand new boat here Buckwheat; unless the captain was operating the boat irratically or had it overloaded I really can't hold the captain much to blame in this case.

The bilge pump would have been shooting water out the side of the hull at the dock/ramp had the plug been out. I've seen more than one boat sink at the ramp due to no plug. Most bilge pumps can't even keep up with "only" the plug being out.

The boat sank; thankfully everyone made it off. PERIOD!

Those kids from the boat went back to school with a whopper of a "What I did this summer" story.

In the end we all have learned from this.......wear your preserver.

My 2 cents.

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Old 09-05-2007, 07:02 PM   #45
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Default Foot in mouth

Winipesaukee,
I too have been found guilty of this communicable disease. Suck it up and apologise, or feel the obfiscation of anything you say in the future. We love to forgive.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:48 PM   #46
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Guys:

Winnipesaukee is clearly ignorant and isn't man enough to admit his error. Let's focus on the boat sinking issue.
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:28 PM   #47
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Default Cobalt down

Started scanning at 7am today. SeaTow met up with me with two boats shortly thereafter. Great guys-know their stuff-persistent. Two salvage divers on board one SeaTow boat, one diver with a rebreather. Scanned 7am to 6:45pm. About a dozen possibles. Divers hit about 5 of them, down to perhaps 128. Deepest scanned depth by me in target area-144 feet. Topography flat for the most part and accomodating, vs. hard rock-this is big help. Mud bottom offers very good contrast against a fiberglass hull. Really tough to scan that deep with my unit, flag it accurately, and send divers down. Viz at 128 feet about 15 feet. Also difficult to narrow down area of sinking from information provided but SeaTow has a good idea-folks are helpful. MP ran defense for us most of the day-thanks MP.

You will see various types of flags & floats east of Rattlesnake in the work area-often overnight. Some go all the way over to the other shore. These are shore-to-shore line-of-sight markers for our scan runs. Please leave all of them-they are not flotsam. Thanks.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:27 AM   #48
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Diver,

What is a "rebreather" and how does it work?

Thanks,

CZ
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Old 09-06-2007, 11:49 AM   #49
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Post Here you go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Zipper
Diver,

What is a "rebreather" and how does it work?

Thanks,

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:14 AM   #50
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Default Topside Cobalt...

Cobalt 246. 24' 3"

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Old 09-06-2007, 02:04 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondcurve
Guys:

Winnipesaukee is clearly ignorant and isn't man enough to admit his error. Let's focus on the boat sinking issue.
I say we hold a public Lynching. Do we have time at the ForumFest? Maybe we could broadcast it live over one of the Cams.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:11 PM   #52
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What happens to a boat like this after it is salvaged? Dry it out and re-sell it?
I'll look for it on EBay.

Glad to hear nobody got hurt, be safe recovering the boat fellas.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:50 AM   #53
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Exclamation Fyi

My MD friend on Rattlesnake Island got stopped by the MPs there.

The MPs advised them that all boats be kept at least a Ľ-mile away from the site of the recovery vessels.

Just a heads-up.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:12 AM   #54
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Ummm......Maybe Maxum would be interested
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:25 PM   #55
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Default still not found?

I take it that the boat has not yet been found?

Ken
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:17 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM
Ummm......Maybe Maxum would be interested
Good one, Samiam- If it's priced like it sunk I might be interested.


I will say in defense of Cobalt, in the reasearch I've done they are not only very highly regarded as to thier quality of construction, they also visually appear to be very well made. My only gripe with them is finding one without a Volvo stern drive and they are pricey.

Glad to hear everyone was OK. That's pretty darn scary.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:00 PM   #57
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Question Daily Fines

Does anyone know if there will be fines for having the boat at the bottom of the lake? If a snowmobile goes in they have only a few days to retrieve it, then there are daily fines incurred. How many gallons of gas does the average snowmobile carry? Is it similar to a jet-ski?
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:40 PM   #58
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Default let's do it right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatto Nero
I say we hold a public Lynching. Do we have time at the ForumFest? Maybe we could broadcast it live over one of the Cams.
No, no.... to do a proper lynching we need a castle. A big, old Gothic castle with dead trees outside, cobwebs, full moon peeking through the thunderclouds, and we each need a torch.
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:04 PM   #59
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jetskier,

Thanks.

Man, that unit must cost a few $$$$$$.

CZ
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:25 PM   #60
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APS wrote:
Quote:
My MD friend on Rattlesnake Island got stopped by the MPs there.

The MPs advised them that all boats be kept at least a Ľ-mile away from the site of the recovery vessels.

Just a heads-up.
Then shouldn't the MP or MP Auxiliary be running patrols along the perimeter of the search area (a 1/4 mile away) to ensure the safety of the divers (and that no one finds out what happens before the "official statement" if there is a statement)?
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:06 AM   #61
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Default Recovered???

Has the boat been recovered? Headed out to Rattlesnake yesterday, at 11 AM or so, and there no activity at all. No dive boats, no MP, no Sea Tow...nothing. I thought the area was off the eastern part of the island, so we went there and circled around the back side, but saw nothing.
Anyone??????
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:55 AM   #62
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Talking Foiled again

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanisLupusArctos
No, no.... to do a proper lynching ..{snip}.. and we each need a torch.
Well there's one problem right off the bat. I think Cate Park is a no smoking zone.
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Old 09-17-2007, 03:19 PM   #63
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Default Boat Sinking-speculation....

I would be willing to bet that the water circulator pump hose came off the thermostat housing or the pump itself & it filled up the boat while still allowing the engine to run near normal temperature parameters. I have personally seen this happen two other times but both were caught when the bilge pump started running constantly. A boat that size is not required to have positive flotation. Let this be a lesson to all the idiots that go boating with their children on board not wearing life jackets. They save lives.....even if they are "awkward & uncomfortable". Kudos to this boat owner for having the kids in the correct equipment & having the correct safety items on board for just such a accident.
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Old 09-17-2007, 03:59 PM   #64
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Default Questions

Several questions come to my mind too. Things like: Who decides whether to bring the boat to the surface? Who actually does this? Who will be responsible for doing the "autopsy" on the boat - is it an independent entity that does not have a financial stake in the outcome? What happens to the boat - is it possible that an insurance company could decide that the boat is not "totalled" and that they would only provide funds to re-condition the boat?
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Old 09-17-2007, 07:34 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Pine
Several questions come to my mind too. Things like: Who decides whether to bring the boat to the surface? Who actually does this? Who will be responsible for doing the "autopsy" on the boat - is it an independent entity that does not have a financial stake in the outcome? What happens to the boat - is it possible that an insurance company could decide that the boat is not "totalled" and that they would only provide funds to re-condition the boat?
After spending a few weeks at the bottom the boat will most likely be totalled, especially being that the boat only had 6 hours on it. The cost to repair/rebuild this boat to new is probably more than replacement cost. Hopefully the boat was insured for actual cash value, with a high enough agreed hull value set.

A marine surveyor hired by the insurance company will be the entity that determines what happened and what will happen going forward. Depending on the insurance company this may or may not be a good thing. Again, the type of coverage is key here.

This does not mean however that someone may buy it from the insurance company, clean it up and resell it themselves. You may find it on Ebay some day...
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:32 AM   #66
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"This does not mean however that someone may buy it from the insurance company, clean it up and resell it themselves"

The sad thing in NH is that they don't title boats so an unsuspecting buyer may never know they bought a sunk boat... Or there is a concept of a salvage title here?

That scanner photo is pretty darn amazing.
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:54 AM   #67
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Default Orientation?

It's hard to tell just how the boat is sitting on the bottom. It looks like it's upright resting on the starboard side.
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Old 09-18-2007, 11:02 AM   #68
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Bottom looks rather unremarkable, too. (At least on one side)

Good find!
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:30 PM   #69
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Default Ebay

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671
You may find it on Ebay some day...
The funny thing is, the seller of a previously-sunken boat on Ebay could probably get more money with total honesty than by hiding the truth. Has anyone ever watched Jay Leno's "Stuff We Found On Ebay" segments? All the seller would have to do is say the boat spent several days near the deepest part of "The famous Lake Winnipesaukee," mention films like 'On Golden Pond' and 'What About Bob,' say something about the French president recently staying here, and before you know it, someone would bid twice its original sale price.

I can just see Jay Leno asking his audience now: "Sunken boat from famous lake--sold or unsold? SOLD!"
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Old 09-18-2007, 02:10 PM   #70
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Default Someone must know something.....

Noone has any idea of the current status of the recovery???
Rattlesnake Gal...where are you? You've done a great job of being our "eyes" thru most of this. Any activity today? (or maybe you are not at the lake; neither am I)
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Old 09-18-2007, 02:29 PM   #71
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We were out there about 8:30 this morning. Nothing happening although there was a barge heading in the direction to the site..not sure if that was its destination however.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:03 PM   #72
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Default Here's What I Heard

I drove around the site today about 6pm. No activity. However, I heard that the boat is in 103 feet of water and will be raised tomorrow.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:25 PM   #73
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Senter Cove Guy:

Thanks for the update. It's has been radio silence for quite a while. I'm looking forward to getting more information about this unfortunate incident so as to learn something useful for the future. Perhaps you divers can tell us exactly how a boat is raised from 103 feet? Does a diver go that deep to hook on the line or do they fish for the boat? Does the recovery team bring the boat onto a barge? What agency is responsible for the recovery effort? Did Diver 1111 have a role in the location of the boat? How about in the recovery effort scheduled for tomorrow?

Boat Guy 64 are you out there? If so, can you add anything at this time?
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:13 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy
I drove around the site today about 6pm. No activity. However, I heard that the boat is in 103 feet of water and will be raised tomorrow.
Gal and I really want to get some pics of this long awaited event and have thrown ourselves on the task of enjoying another beautiful day on the quite lake. It is 11AM now and still no activity at the site. This would be the day to do it. Perfectly clear, flat as it gets mid day, no wind, no traffic, no wakes.

If things start up we will start a new thread called “Cobalt Recovery Pictures” so we don’t clog this one. We will post as close to real time as we can. Fingers crossed that it happens today.
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:48 AM   #75
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Default Boat Sinking

Been so long I guess we will never know now. Did anyone get any pics of it at Marine Patrol Headquarters? at least everyone involved is safe. Thanks to some quick thinking fellow boaters.
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Old 10-28-2007, 04:58 PM   #76
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I think the comment above yours pretty much sums it up.

Patience, Grasshopper.
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:46 PM   #77
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Default info????

So now the calendar reads December, winter is in full swing, first ski trip is this Friday, my thoguhts are already turning to the opening of camp on 5/23/08, and still I wonder...what happened??????????/
I would think any investigation would have now taken place, and any appeal or difference of opinion would have already been voiced. Someone, somewhere must have some inside information. Maybe they wish to share it????
Perhaps the friend of the owner who has already posted here could simply tell us if the insurance company has settled. Simple question. Have they settled?
I remain curious.
Anyway...
17 degrees outside, and hoping the day comes soon when I am cruising across the broads on a warm Friday afternoon, heading to Wolfeboro for drinks...
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:53 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith
..... heading to Wolfeboro for drinks...
Hopefully you have a designated Captain
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:14 PM   #79
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Default another sinker

in all probability it was handled as in this situation:

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...spx?NewsID=608

only the owner may have decided to take the offer and sign the nondisclosure release if he was offered enough to make it worth his while.


Either way looks like Cobalt isn't the only one producing fiberglass sinkers.
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:11 PM   #80
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Dear boat guy64 and the others involved in the Cobalt sinking,

First of all let me say that i am so glad that you and your family are ok. Second i believe every word you say about Cobalt boat hull failure. Let me tell you and any other interested parties my story and you can make your own judgment....

I am a very experienced boater and have been since i was 5 years old. My family built planing hull boats for 20 years. Models were 16'-32' runabouts and cruisers. I have owned boats from sail to power, skiboats to large cruisers. I am a member of the Seattle Yacht Club. My family's passion in life was boating.

In April of 2005 my family and I met the local Cobalt dealer here (Seattle Boat) on Lake Washington (where we live) to test drive (sea trial) a basically new (38 hours old) cobalt 282. We were with the salesperson from Seattle Boat and did everything he asked us to do while he continued to "sell" us.

We were starting out basically from a dead stop and were getting up on plane. We were running about 45-50 mph (the boat is marketed to do 68 mph). We were going strait ahead running parallel (150-200 yards to the south) of the 520 bridge having a very nice relaxing time on the water. Suddenly, out of nowhere, and within a milli-second the port bow and port side raised up so quickly and so high that no one had anytime to react. Unfortunatly every one was ejected/fell out of the boat. The boat stopped (thank god) and layed back down about 50 yards away. We were just able to make it back to the boat just long enough (about 60 seconds) to get life jackets on and then the boat sank in about 200' feet of water. It all happened so shockingly fast.

There were multiple injuries but (again thank god) nobody died that day.

Now the really sad part......Cobalt boat company, the dealer and their respective insurance companies Chubb and American Hardware ignored us for years. You would think that Cobalt would want to know what caused the accident and bring the boat up. Instead they immediately pointed the finger at me, their client, and said I must be the cause of the accident! They had many theories (none of which admit any wrongdoing on their part of course). They speculated that I must have operated the trim tabs and/or power trim incorrectly (if those little trim tabs or power trims can cause a boat to eject its occupants in a milli-second in excellent sea conditions Cobalt should recall every boat they have ever made with trim tabs in the interest of public safety!!).. They said i was going too fast for conditions because their manual states the operator should have at least 10 hours experience. They said I was reckless and wake jumping because we crossed over our own wake! (all the sworn testimony from my family and the salesperson state the exact opposite). I find it sickening that they would accuse me of putting my family in jeopardy like that. They also said I should have read all the manuals before taking the test drive. I submit to you; how would Cobalt or its dealers ever sell a boat if you had to have 10 hours behind the wheel and read the hundreds of pages in all the manuals before taking a test drive??? (If this isnt proof of Cobalt's absence of reality i dont know what is)

Maybe because i am stubborn or maybe because i just refuse to let people make false, malicious, accusations about me and my family I spent nearly $20,000 to have the boat raised off the bottom of the lake. I have spent countless thousands on marine architects and marine surveyors and other experts to prove to Cobalt and Seattle Boat the serious problems they have with their design and quality, to restore my good name and hopefully save some lives in the process!

Here are the undeniable facts:
1) According to NOAA; wind speeds were from the south 6-10mph. Seas were 6"-12" chop. In short it was a very pleasant day on the water, a day in which any boat, including a Cobalt should be more than able to handle with ease. (Conversely if the boat can not handle those simple conditions the salesperson should have told me so and not directed me to go to the south side of the bridge and Cobalt should instruct people that their boats can not handle these mild conditions)
2) We were going in a straight line.
3) We were going just over half throttle at 45 mph.
4) We did not hit anything. The bottom of the hull is perfect.
5) The trim tabs were all the way up in the neutral position.
6) The power trims were all the way down or in their neutral position.
7) The hull to deck joint failed catastrophically from the transom to the winshield. As it turns out Cobalt does not "bond" the hull to the deck. Instead they use the cheap and easy way; sheet metal screws under a rub rail.
8) The starboard hull collapsed inward nearly 10". (We know this because the micro-commander module in the engine compartment was mounted on the starboard hull. When the hull concaved in it smashed the microcomander box against the starboard engine block.)
9) The boat has significant freeboard but has no bulk heads and little to no lateral support for the hull.
10) In the absence of bulkheads and significant lateral support Cobalt designs their boats to use the deck to obtain the needed lateral support for the hull. In short a Cobalt is a "shoe box" boat; If you put a heavy object in a shoe box the sides fold in but if you put the top of the shoebox on and tape it to the box the sides will hold and not concave in.
11) Many of the screws used to secure the deck to the hull were missing and so badly drilled at the top of the hull they provided little to no strength. In one area near the transom there was no hull to drill into so Cobalt filled the area with putty and screwed into said putty.
12) This poor Cobalt design and manufacturing of the hull to deck joint caused the hull to fail nearly killing my family.

I have now spent well over $100,000 to make Cobalt and Seattle boat do the right thing. Frankly i have strong principles or right and wrong and I expect people I do business with to have integrity and do the right thing. Because of this simple belief I refuse to let people or companies get away with murder which is exactly what Cobalt has tried to do. Instead of being honorable they have stalled and ignored us and continued, rather feebly to point the finger at me and their very own dealer even after the evidence (the boat) was quite literally brought to the surface and put right in front of them.

Trial is set for August. There we will be vindicated and hopefully the boating public will be educated and wary of Cobalt boats, their warranty, and their claims of treating their clients as "part of the family".

Cobalt boat company's web site and brochures want their clients to believe they are "part of their family" alright......that is until their product fails and nearly kills you. They ignore you, hang you out to dry, and to add insult to injury try and blame their clients they proclaim to care so much about! Any prospective boat buyer should think twice before buying a Cobalt boat.

If anyone would like pictures of the mountains of evidence i have please let me know.

Here is some other good reading that might help explain what happened to you and I and things for people to watch out for.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Screwit.htm

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/HullFailPart1.htm

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/HullFailP2.htm
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:52 PM   #81
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Mpeterson:

You sound very educated about all things boats. I have always wondered why we didn't hear anything on the Winnipesaukee Cobalt boat failure. It seems strange. Do you have any theories? In any event, good luck with your lawsuit and please let us know how it turns out.

Thanks
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:55 PM   #82
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Default My God...

Wow! After 1.5 years, and 47000 views, this thread has the single most informative post.
How, on God's green earth, did you find us, mpeterson?
What a horrific story.
Please be sure to let us know what becomes of the trial.
If I had to venture a guess, I would say Cobalt will settle with you in the next month or so, and you will be asked to sign a Confidentiality Agreement as part of the settlement. Who knows...
Quite an education, for me anyway, on the way a boat is constructed, and where errors can occur. I simply had no idea.
The report of the findings of the sinking on lake Winni have never been published here, and I often wonder what was found.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:01 PM   #83
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Default wow!

Wow, mpeterson, what a story. And what an education. Best of luck with your lawsuit, and thank you for such an informative post.
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:12 PM   #84
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Default sinking boat in paugus bay

not sure if this has been talked about, but while driving to weirs today we passed this 35 fountain that sank while moored.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:49 AM   #85
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.....who knows...maybe Cobalt used the same epoxy glue as what the Boston big-dig used for gluing its concrete ceiling panels in place....ouch.....

....whoopsie.....there goes the bow area....hey look....the bow is separating and the boats splitting along its seam....that's ok....cold water can be very invigorat'n


....remember old Noah....of Noah's Ark fame.....now he was a wise old boat builder....he knew to build his ark with aluminum.....it was an aluminum ark....and that's why all the animals were saved.....aluminum hull & aluminum rivets....all cut from an aluminum tree growing in the nearby aluminum jungle........ !
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Old 06-02-2009, 07:22 AM   #86
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Now that's an education on design and construction. Glad to hear all aboard survived,sorry that a company that prides itself on top quality doesn't appear to in construction.
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:01 AM   #87
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Default Free advice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
"...How...did you find us, mpeterson...?"
I just Googled Colbalt sinking: even with my misspelling, this site was brought up.
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...t%2Dsinking%22

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
"...The report of the findings of the sinking on lake Winni have never been published here..."
Don't expect it to, either. Whenever "a settlement" is reached between the two or more parties, a gag order will be placed on them by the judge. Violations of the gag order can be very expensive to the violator.

As for mpeterson...

>>>>>>> sigh <<<<<<<


I need to re-emphasize my previous advice—found here:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...1&postcount=17
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:57 AM   #88
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When you're in the business of mass production a certain percentage of the product is going to have issues. This is not necessarily a poor reflection on the company, rather a fact of life. On the flip side there is a whole lot of ignorance in thinking that just because an item has a big shot price tag doesn't mean it's any better than the rest, just more expensive.

What bothers me is if for argument's sake Cobalt were to settle any pending lawsuits and recognizes that they either have a design or internal QA problem it does the general pubic a disservice to allow these findings or admission of guilt by a particular party to be quelled with a gag order.
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