Chapparal vs.Crownline

[meredith weekender]

Have been a very happy Crownline owner since 2007. Its time for an upgrade and we are between Crownline 305 or 335 bow rider and the Chapparal 307 bow rider. Looking for input. Thanks.

[GodSmile]

Was at Fay's looking at a Chaparral yesterday and found ourselves wishing for a sort of Comsumers Reports for boat brands... They all make the case that their construction and quality are the best..... One wonders which brands are really top of the pack and what it is that makes them the best...
We have a 22' Chaparral and absolutely love it... that said still have the question about which brands are best.

[VitaBene]

What are both powered by? I think they are both great lines of boats but think many Chappys are sometimes a bit underpowered if you use the base engine (s)

I would also look at t he deadrise in the hull, even at that size. 24 degrees on Crowneline, 22 on Chappy, both good numbers with Crowne having an edge there.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by meredith weekender

Have been a very happy Crownline owner since 2007. Its time for an upgrade and we are between Crownline 305 or 335 bow rider and the Chapparal 307 bow rider. Looking for input. Thanks.

Man, those are some bow riders!! I'm envious. If you go 33 feet I would assume you are considering twin engines?

[Phantom]

I believe (not sure) that one of the key differentiators between boats of this class are wether or not the basic hull itself is the manufacturers design & and actual molding...versus a liscensed design and/or purchased mold

I know in the past Crownline was known for their unique hull designs..... Not so sure now after all the turnover in the Company. If you are not aware, the original Crownline engineers ( amongst other key staff) left Crown many years ago to start the Azure brand. Thus, when you look at an Azure why it looks sooo much like a crownline.

I too am a longtime Crownie, still satisfied and purchased a new 255SS last season. Only drawback is dealing with Winnisquam Marine - we have had nothing but a HORRIBLE experience and use Channel for everything but Warranty related work. Thank goodness there has been no warranty needs to this point.



.

[meredith weekender]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

Man, those are some bow riders!! I'm envious. If you go 33 feet I would assume you are considering twin engines?

The Chapparal 307 has twin Volvo Pentas and the Crownline 335 has twin Mercruisers. Both have duo props.

if you want to look at a gorgeous Bowrider you should go to Irwin and look at the SeaRay 350SLX bow rider. The boat is only a mere $325,000. LOL

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by meredith weekender

The Chapparal 307 has twin Volvo Pentas and the Crownline 335 has twin Mercruisers. Both have duo props.

One thing you may want to consider is the longevity of the power. If I'm not mistaken the dual prop Merc's have a reputation of electrolysis and corrosion issues. Merc may have solved the issue by now,, I certainly hope so.

I've owned both Merc and Volvo power. In my experience the Merc drives have been less expensive to repair and has more widespread parts availability than the Volvo but the Volvo has been more reliable.
YMMV of course.

CT

[WinniMarine]

I can tell you that Crownline has been my favorite brand to work with and sell here at Winnisquam Marine. I have owned 2 Crownlines and will have my 3rd this summer and absolutely love it!!!

Phantom (John), you and I sat down and talked about any of the concerns you had and shook hands at the end. You had a misunderstanding with one of my salesmen and a few things that you wanted taken care of on your boat and I personally saw to everything being taken care of. We are not perfect and we get extremely busy around Memorial Day like every other marina but we care and just as you and I did will address any issue that comes up.

As far as Crownline goes, I think you and many other marinas have the wrong information. I can tell you that with Four Winns we went through ownership changes and bankruptcies which changed the product. Four Winns declared bankruptsy in 2000 and 2009 and changed ownership again last year. Crownline on the other hand NEVER declared bankruptcy. The original owners of Crownline sold to an investment company because they offered a price that couldn't be turned down. Then we had the economic downturn and the investment company wasn't making the Return on Investment that they wanted to so they decided to sell. It took only a few months to transition the company to Tony and Dave that have owned the company since then and they have no plans to sell. Kevin Reim(President), Kevin Lawrance(Engineer) and many of the other employees have been there for over 20 years!!! I work with them almost every day and I can tell you that they care and are the leaders. They are boaters themselves and love the company they work for.

Anthony that you mentioned that went to Azure was fired from Crownline. He had also worked for Monterey and some other companies. He is also no longer the Azure which is now Cruiser Sport. Remember, Azure was Bennington and then Sea Fox and now Cruisers Yacht. They have changed alot...

As far as Chapparal goes they also build a nice boat. I like the design, layouts and ride of the Crownline better(As I Should) but Fay's is also a good dealer. I can't say anything bad about them or their boats, their good guys...

Ryan Crawford
VP
Winnisquam Marine

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by meredith weekender

The Chapparal 307 has twin Volvo Pentas and the Crownline 335 has twin Mercruisers. Both have duo props.

if you want to look at a gorgeous Bowrider you should go to Irwin and look at the SeaRay 350SLX bow rider. The boat is only a mere $325,000. LOL

A couple of notes as you make your decision.....

First I don't think at this point you could go wrong with either brand, or either power options...

When it comes to duo-props, my choice would be Volvo Penta... The downside is that they are more expensive down the road if you should have a drive issue. But the drive choice is not all that would drive my decision.

Another point for me would really come down to the Marina that is going to service the boat for warranty work... I have heard equal parts good and bad for both Winnisquam Marine, and Fays..... Now being on the north side of the lake for me, I would chose the Chappy, because I can get it directly to Fay's on the water (assuming the warranty work not major mechanical, for which I would just take the boat to the nearest merc or Volvo authorized service, or trailer it to Fays)...For me to bring a boat to Winnisquam, means I have to trailer it even if it is for a minor non-mechanical issue. Hence I would let this have some weight on my decision as well....

In short I don't think you have an easy decision... I am sure on boat speak louder to you then the other... listen to that voice....

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by WinniMarine

I can tell you that Crownline has been my favorite brand to work with and sell here at Winnisquam Marine. I have owned 2 Crownlines and will have my 3rd this summer and absolutely love it!!!

Phantom (John), you and I sat down and talked about any of the concerns you had and shook hands at the end. You had a misunderstanding with one of my salesmen and a few things that you wanted taken care of on your boat and I personally saw to everything being taken care of. We are not perfect and we get extremely busy around Memorial Day like every other marina but we care and just as you and I did will address any issue that comes up.

As far as Crownline goes, I think you and many other marinas have the wrong information. I can tell you that with Four Winns we went through ownership changes and bankruptcies which changed the product. Four Winns declared bankruptsy in 2000 and 2009 and changed ownership again last year. Crownline on the other hand NEVER declared bankruptcy. The original owners of Crownline sold to an investment company because they offered a price that couldn't be turned down. Then we had the economic downturn and the investment company wasn't making the Return on Investment that they wanted to so they decided to sell. It took only a few months to transition the company to Tony and Dave that have owned the company since then and they have no plans to sell. Kevin Reim(President), Kevin Lawrance(Engineer) and many of the other employees have been there for over 20 years!!! I work with them almost every day and I can tell you that they care and are the leaders. They are boaters themselves and love the company they work for.

Anthony that you mentioned that went to Azure was fired from Crownline. He had also worked for Monterey and some other companies. He is also no longer the Azure which is now Cruiser Sport. Remember, Azure was Bennington and then Sea Fox and now Cruisers Yacht. They have changed alot...

As far as Chapparal goes they also build a nice boat. I like the design, layouts and ride of the Crownline better(As I Should) but Fay's is also a good dealer. I can't say anything bad about them or their boats, their good guys...

Ryan Crawford
VP
Winnisquam Marine

Ryan,

We I will admit that once a complaint is lodged your Marina does tend to react and make sure the situation is rectified, and the customer is happy with the end results.

However, I and others I know have dealt with your marina, and had to go through unpleasant experiences to get the correct end result.

Just because you make the situation right in the end... doesn't mean that you have handled the situation correctly. It just means you have resolved the issue. If customers have to argue and fight to get what they are intittled to it tends to leave a bad taste in ones mouth...

In short you may have resolved the issue Phantom had, but a bad experience tends to linger, and leave a bad taste in ones mouth....

I stopped storing my boat with you guys, not because I was displeased with your service quality... But rather because, I couldn't count on when my boat would be ready... I never made any bones about when I wanted my boat..... but both years I stored my boat with your marina, I made appts. to pick the boat up, and was called the day before and told my boat would not be ready... Now when as a customer, I tell you I want my boat the first weekend in May when I drop it off, and call you as soon as I know ICE out is going to happen and confirm.... To be told that my boat is blocked and can't be retrieved was hard to take... Hence I started using another Marina, who service has been just as good, and has reliably had my boat ready year after year......

There is a huge difference, between quality service and reliability... Most places have quality service, it the reliability that is harder to achieve....I dealt directly with your Dad, and both times told him... My displeasure was not about the quality or lack of service... My boat was delivered ready to go, with all work performed each time.... My displeasure was over the reliability to get my boat delivered on time... If I had been called at the beginning of the week, vs. the afternoon before I was to pick it up it would have made all the difference in the world... but to have my truck packed, family members waiting and excited for a boat ride, and to find out at the last minute, that the boat wasn't going to be ready, was unacceptable... Especially when both times I was told, that the main issue with getting me my boat was that it was blocked in by other boats, and your marina didn't believe they could get enough boats moved around to get mine out in time.

Sorry for my rant here.... But I think it is important for Ryan to understand... that issue can always be rectified in the end, and the customer walks away pleased... The real goal however is to not have the issues arise in the first place... I have had several friends that have had sour experiences with Winnisquam Marine...and of course my own... They have always been rectified, but the fact that they happened in the first place is what is wrong...

I would never tell anyone not to do business with Winnisquam.. and have sent many friends there to look at boats... The only thing I have told my friends to do is to stay on top of them when they are working on your boat, to make sure that the work is completed on time.

[WinniMarine]

LIforrelaxin, until 2007 I preferred the Volvo Penta also and we were one of their largest dealers in New England. They then came out with the SX-A and DP-A drives and we started having problems that we are still seeing. Mercruiser addressed many of their issues such as corrosion and harsh shifting and we starting seeing fewer problems with them over Volvo Penta so we made the switch to selling all Mercruiser. They are both good drives but Mercruiser is much better to work with when you do have a problem. They take great care of their dealers which allows dealers to take better care of their customers...

I just also want to make the point that over half of our customers are on Winnipesaukee and you do not need to own a trailer to have us service your boat. We are in and out daily at Silver Sands Motel ramp which is less than 10 minutes from our dealership. We also travel to boats at other locations. We have as many if not more technicians than all of the Winnipesaukee dealerships which gives us the capability to service you quickly. We are in the "Top 5" dealerships for Crownline, Premier and Palm Beach and that's not by just selling boats on Winnisquam...

We work on a weekly schedule during the spring and it is crazy!!! The guys are working 6 or 7 days weeks and we don't know what's going to be completed for that week until Friday and we try to call those customers as soon as we know. It's typically just a few boats out of the 120-150 a week that we are putting out of the service shop and those are normally completed by the end of the weekend. We don't get weeks behind like other places do, you wouldn't believe the stories I hear talking with my friends that work at other marinas. I don't know how it ended up being your boat both years that was blocked in but that's not typical. We store in the buildings and storage lots based on when people want their boats in the spring, we send out a mailer to ask a date in March and we schedule weekly based on output in the past so we do have a system in place that typically gets the job done.

The important thing is that we care and go way out of our way to take care of customers when a problem arises. There are many places that employees are burned out and they have issues all the time so it's just damage control. We are not dealing with unhappy customers all they time as most people are very happy and when we have a problem we take care of it...

Ryan Crawford
VP
Winnisquam Marine

[meredith weekender]

We ended up deciding to go with the Crownline 335SS and are very excited with our decision. Although the Chapparral was a good contender the Crownline won out. Julie and Ryan over at Winnisquam Marine were absolutely Great to deal with. There response to our questions and unannounced visits to look at the boat a few times was welcoming. We had previously experienced their service department with our Four Winns boat several years ago and they were always on top of things including meeting us at the old Burger King site for a minor Warranty Service. Its going to be a fabulous summer boating.

[ishoot308]

I think you made a good decision! Besides being a great boat, I can't say enough good on how I have been treated at Winnisquam Marine. Great people and great service!

Congrats!!

Dan

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by meredith weekender

We ended up deciding to go with the Crownline 335SS and are very excited with our decision. Although the Chapparral was a good contender the Crownline won out. Julie and Ryan over at Winnisquam Marine were absolutely Great to deal with. There response to our questions and unannounced visits to look at the boat a few times was welcoming. We had previously experienced their service department with our Four Winns boat several years ago and they were always on top of things including meeting us at the old Burger King site for a minor Warranty Service. Its going to be a fabulous summer boating.

Decision made that is excellent... now for the best part to come... enjoying the boat this summer!!!!!

[tbonies]

Sounds like you made a great decision to me as well. I no longer have a boat serviced and stored at Winnisquam Marine but I did for years and had consistent outstanding support from them. It's always fascinating how recurring issues sometime only seem to gravitate around selected individuals.

[Sailor Jerry]

If you are planning on doing your boating on the big lake, then I would stick with the Chapparal and Fay's boat yard. You can't go wrong with either. It is always difficult doing business with a marina that is not on the same lake as you, as much as they tell you different. Logistics = time. Summer is short and can't wait for some one to come get my boat and bring it back to another lake? My 2 cents.

[Ms Molly McKever]

Originally Posted by Sailor Jerry

If you are planning on doing your boating on the big lake, then I would stick with the Chapparal and Fay's boat yard. You can't go wrong with either. It is always difficult doing business with a marina that is not on the same lake as you, as much as they tell you different. Logistics = time. Summer is short and can't wait for some one to come get my boat and bring it back to another lake? My 2 cents.

Yes but, Ryan Carwford VP at Winnisquam marine said.( We are in and out at Silver Sands Motel daily which is less than 10 minutes from our dealership.)If they are 7 days a week and less 10 minutes travel time,That not bad.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

Yes but, Ryan Carwford VP at Winnisquam marine said.( We are in and out at Silver Sands Motel daily which is less than 10 minutes from our dealership.)If they are 7 days a week and less 10 minutes travel time,That not bad.

I have had service done right at the Glendale docks from Winnisquam Marine. There are NO service issues with them whatsoever being on Winni.

Dan

[Ms Molly McKever]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I have had service done right at the Glendale docks from Winnisquam Marine. There are NO service issues with them whatsoever being on Winni.

Dan

Is Winnisquam marine working on boats at the Glendale town docks.?
I did not know that was allowed.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

Is Winnisquam marine working on boats at the Glendale town docks.?
I did not know that was allowed.

As a Gilford resident and islander I am allowed use of those docks. Yes they met me there twice during the week to take care of some quick stereo amplifier issues I was having. If it could not be fixed quick, they would of pulled the boat and taken to their facility.

[BlackcatBoater]

I think the issue that I would have in the back of my mind is if there is a breakdown on the lake- if my dealership was on a different lake I would have to rely on somebody to tow me to the launch ramp that would be closest to them. Whereas if my dealer was on the lake they would be much more convenient to come get me; or possibly fix it right there. I have a Honda, so I don't have to worry!

[Sailor Jerry]

Molly,

Commercial use by another business other than a Gilford owned taxpayer can only be had if the thousand dollar permit fee is paid. Any other use and activity are strictly prohibited and can result in severe penalties. I wonder how many permits are issued at that price? My guess, not many.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

Yes but, Ryan Carwford VP at Winnisquam marine said.( We are in and out at Silver Sands Motel daily which is less than 10 minutes from our dealership.)If they are 7 days a week and less 10 minutes travel time,That not bad.

Winnisquam would put me in and out at Glendale. I was a gilford resident and had an island sticker on the boats, plus guest passes. I am sure they are not servicing just anyone at Glendale. Ryan runs a great business.

[Ms Molly McKever]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Winnisquam would put me in and out at Glendale. I was a gilford resident and had an island sticker on the boats, plus guest passes. I am sure they are not servicing just anyone at Glendale. Ryan runs a great business.

ishoot308 and codeman671,I was not asking what you can do at the Glendale docks. 1) Can Winnisquam Marine service boats at the Glendale docks. 2) If Winniquam Marine puts boats in and out and has a Gilford sticker for the Glendale docks. Y do they pay silversands for in and out like Vp Ryan said.
Just trying to understand statements made on this thread, Mabe Winnisquam Marine can chime in. Thanks

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

ishoot308 and codeman671,I was not asking what you can do at the Glendale docks. 1) Can Winnisquam Marine service boats at the Glendale docks. 2) If Winniquam Marine puts boats in and out and has a Gilford sticker for the Glendale docks. Y do they pay silversands for in and out like Vp Ryan said.
Just trying to understand statements made on this thread, Mabe Winnisquam Marine can chime in. Thanks

Define service...

Is Gilford going to allow Winnisquam to do oil changes in boats tied to the docks? No. Drop in and pull outs with a sticker- no problem. A quick adjustment to something on the boat would be fine, but nothing major would be allowed. Part of it would also depend on the time of the year. When I took delivery of my Skydeck they assembled it in the back lot as it was too tall to travel over the road assembled. This was in the spring on a quiet mid-week day. Gilford would not like that on a sunny July Saturday afternoon.

I am not sure if they have a Gilford business use permit for Glendale or not. Silver Sands is a privately owned launch so of course they have to pay there. When using Glendale, if they do not have a permit they use the permit of the property owner as they are transporting the owners property (the boat).

[BlackcatBoater]

I think we have swayed far enough from the main topic- Meredith Weekender- lets see some pictures of this boat!

[meredith weekender]

Originally Posted by BlackcatBoater

I think we have swayed far enough from the main topic- Meredith Weekender- lets see some pictures of this boat!

heres a couple of pics of her.

[Lakeboater]

Beautiful boat. Where was the second picture taken?

[BlackcatBoater]

Beautiful- that's quite the rig! Makes ice out even longer at this point!

[VitaBene]

Looks great MW!!!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by meredith weekender

heres a couple of pics of her.

Very nice, and you know you went big enough when it takes not one, not two, but three axles to haul her around. Now a boat like that needs a good name. Any ideas yet?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by WinniMarine

LIforrelaxin, until 2007 I preferred the Volvo Penta also and we were one of their largest dealers in New England. They then came out with the SX-A and DP-A drives and we started having problems that we are still seeing. Mercruiser addressed many of their issues such as corrosion and harsh shifting and we starting seeing fewer problems with them over Volvo Penta so we made the switch to selling all Mercruiser. They are both good drives but Mercruiser is much better to work with when you do have a problem. They take great care of their dealers which allows dealers to take better care of their customers...

Ryan Crawford
VP
Winnisquam Marine

It's interesting to hear you say that because the Volvo's are pretty popular and put in some very expensive boats. I'd personally never own one because I am well aware of their less than stellar reliability.

I'm curious about the Merc corrosion problems, is it just that the cathodic protection is not sufficient or a matter of having the right type?

[Sailor Jerry]

Codeman671,

Please read the rules for the use of property and ramp at Gilford's Glendale facilities. You may have a permit to move your personal property, but Winnisquam marine does not. Ask them to show you there receipt to the town. They don't have one! Just because it's your property they are moving does not allow them to use that dock commercially without the permit fee paid. Don't you think all other marina's would like to use that ramp as well? That's why all the Winnipesaukee owned marinas pay big property tax. You want to run with the big dogs, you need to pay up!

[meredith weekender]

We finally got our new boat launched last Friday and our loving it. Although it does seem to be a BIG boat at this point, a few weeks of boating will make that feeling go away. Heres to a GREAT summer on the water.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Sailor Jerry

Codeman671,

Please read the rules for the use of property and ramp at Gilford's Glendale facilities. You may have a permit to move your personal property, but Winnisquam marine does not. Ask them to show you there receipt to the town. They don't have one! Just because it's your property they are moving does not allow them to use that dock commercially without the permit fee paid. Don't you think all other marina's would like to use that ramp as well? That's why all the Winnipesaukee owned marinas pay big property tax. You want to run with the big dogs, you need to pay up!

Well the parking attendant that works for the town of Gilford, who was sitting at the dock admiring the boat, didn't have a problem with it....The island sticker was on the boat (I put it on when it arrived). After being an islander for many years they were familiar with most of us by face.

I am not sure if Winnisquam actually has a permit to be there or not, but being that its my boat being moved and I have the use of the ramp I do not see a problem. Nor did Gilford.

I am no longer an islander, nor am I a Gilford resident either so it doesn't matter to me now. Heck I don't even own a boat now!

[Descant]

I don't have an interest in either brand at this point, so I ignored the thread. Finally, curious as to why it was still alive, I read a few of the most recent entries.

NOTHING O DO WITH BOATS., The Gilford /Glendale ramp!?

Time for some self discipline here, folks.