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Old 04-24-2008, 07:30 AM   #1
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Default Marina Gas Price Comments

Has anyone had a chance to see what the Marina gas prices are yet?
I just drove by two gas stations on the street in RI and they were $3.55 and $3.59 for 87 Octane.

It is time again to start the gas prices update around the lake.
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Old 04-25-2008, 03:47 PM   #2
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Fay's was $4.05 today, no idea what it will be tomorrow. They were just a little bit busy there today.

There were a few more boats out on the lake today including a few fools up on plane. There is a lot of debree out there and some is water logged hiding just out of sight. It is tempting to get into it on such a nice calm day with little traffic but you may really pay for it.
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:00 PM   #3
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I believe Lakeport Landing will be open this weekend rumor has it gas will be approx $3.90
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Old 04-26-2008, 03:32 PM   #4
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Default Gas prices

It's going to be an expensive summer. So, does anyone know how to sail???
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:09 PM   #5
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3.939 at Irwins today, paid 3.579 last May (.36 difference), 225 gallons in the tanks, ready to go after "debris out". Much more important day than "ice out" IMHO
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:50 PM   #6
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25dollars filled both tanks w/ about 7 1/2 gals at the Irving 3.489 gas station. Cannot remember the last time I bought at a marina.

Slightly off-topic but anyone notice the candid short on tonights NBC Nightly News with the guy sitting behind the steering wheel who says; "We used to drive to New Hampshire every weekend, but not anymore. Not at these prices!"
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Old 04-26-2008, 10:02 PM   #7
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FLL, looks like we have to get used to it!

To take it beyond gas prices for the boat (I am considering not bothering to even register this year), I have 5 weeks open on my place this summer, last year I only had 1!

Brian William's buddy not driving to NH apparently isn't the only one taking a pass!
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:18 PM   #8
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Default A word of caution

So far as I'm aware, some (many?) of the marinas will again be pumping non-ethanol gas (which is said to be a better choice for marine use), while gas stations are pumping gas with ethanol added.

From everything I've read, and the threads that were active a couple of years ago, it is not a good idea to casually mix the two types of gas.

Just something for folks that trailer their boats to be aware of this season.

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Old 04-27-2008, 03:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Duck View Post
So far as I'm aware, some (many?) of the marinas will again be pumping non-ethanol gas (which is said to be a better choice for marine use), while gas stations are pumping gas with ethanol added.
Silver Duck
As I noted elsewhere, the Alton Village Store has a note at the counter that their gas does not contain ethanol. The owner did tell me that they have to pay extra to get gas without ethanol.
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:13 PM   #10
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Melvin Village Marina is selling 89 octane non-ethanol for $3.99
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:02 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=AC2717;68486]Has anyone had a chance to see what the Marina gas prices are yet?
I just drove by two gas stations on the street in RI and they were $3.55 and $3.59 for 87 Octane.

It is time again to start the gas prices update around the lake.

Sheps was at $3.89 on Saturday, they are increasing to $4.39 on their next delivery which could be this week.
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:51 PM   #12
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Default Anchor Marine

$4.01 @ Anchor Marine
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:03 AM   #13
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Default Every chance I get!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristen View Post
It's going to be an expensive summer. So, does anyone know how to sail???
I used a total of 6 gallons last summer.
//went slow, enjoyed every minute of it, except when getting swamped and tossed by large wakes on calmer days (not placing any blame, just keeps me on my toes)
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:26 PM   #14
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Duck View Post
So far as I'm aware, some (many?) of the marinas will again be pumping non-ethanol gas (which is said to be a better choice for marine use), while gas stations are pumping gas with ethanol added.

From everything I've read, and the threads that were active a couple of years ago, it is not a good idea to casually mix the two types of gas.

Just something for folks that trailer their boats to be aware of this season.

Silver Duck
I don't want to get another Ethanol thread going but just wanted to mention that the issue is not mixing ethanol and non ethanol - boaters should not use ethanol.
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady223 View Post
I don't want to get another Ethanol thread going but just wanted to mention that the issue is not mixing ethanol and non ethanol - boaters should not use ethanol.
I would LOVE to not use fuel containing ethanol but it's becoming next to impossible. Since I'm not rich, I trailer my boat to save on slip rental fees and high marina fuel prices. Unfortunately, that means that by filling up on the street, I'm going to get fuel with ethanol 99.44% of the time......I can't avoid it. It also seems, from reading this thread, that most of the marinas (perhaps not all) will have ethanol in their fuel anyways so it would still be hard to avoid fuel containing ethanol in my boat even if I wasn't trailering.

On the plus side, my boat is a 2004 model with a Mercruiser engine. The owners manual for my engine states there should be no problems running gas with up to 10% ethanol. The only precautions that need to be taken occur at winter storage time; either completely drain the fuel tank and fuel system or completely fill the tank and use a quality fuel stabilizer in the right proportion to protect the fuel from degrading during the off-season, which is exactly what I've been doing. So far, so good, I haven't had any problems but I fear that some day, I will have problems and it will be EXPENSIVE!
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Old 04-29-2008, 08:01 PM   #16
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Default Fair fuel prices

I spoke with someone today that said that the Boston harbor marinas were close to $6/gallon. Lake Winnipesaukee marinas seem to be consistently around .50/gallon over the area gas stations. Considering the lake stations are full service with “pump-out” and “water fill-up”, I don’t think that the cost of fuel is all that bad at our local marinas. Let's just hope fuel prices find someway to drop back down!
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:11 PM   #17
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Glad I left it with a full tank! We'll see how far I can stretch that first tank of gas.
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:35 AM   #18
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Here's a news flash from Shell...

Sales were up 55 percent to $114 billion.

Now, doesn't that make you happy for Shell?!?!?!

So much for reducing personal usage by 10%...

Have a great Summer on the Lake...
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Old 04-30-2008, 06:12 AM   #19
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Default watch out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady223 View Post
I don't want to get another Ethanol thread going but just wanted to mention that the issue is not mixing ethanol and non ethanol - boaters should not use ethanol.

Boaters with newer boats should not be complacent about use of ethanol. Ethanol has an affinity for water and absorbs water from humid air (i.e. like the air around any body of water!). It then settles out of the gas mixture and creates a layer which can damage the engine. Stabilizer will not prevent this. Sad that this ethanol folly continues to be supported by the politicians and corn growers.
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Old 04-30-2008, 06:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
Boaters with newer boats should not be complacent about use of ethanol. Ethanol has an affinity for water and absorbs water from humid air (i.e. like the air around any body of water!). It then settles out of the gas mixture and creates a layer which can damage the engine. Stabilizer will not prevent this. Sad that this ethanol folly continues to be supported by the politicians and corn growers.
Most boats have a water separator.My PWC does.I'd be more concerned about the type of fuel tank if it is made of fiberglass.
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Old 04-30-2008, 06:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
Boaters with newer boats should not be complacent about use of ethanol. Ethanol has an affinity for water and absorbs water from humid air (i.e. like the air around any body of water!). It then settles out of the gas mixture and creates a layer which can damage the engine. Stabilizer will not prevent this. Sad that this ethanol folly continues to be supported by the politicians and corn growers.
Very true. Ethanol has been wreaking havoc in small engines, especially 2 strokes. You should have seen the carburator on my snowblower last fall. U.G.L.Y.
I was having some probs with my snowmobile this winter. It was running real rough in the midrange, and that was after I took apart and cleaned my carbs. I added some Iso-Heet to the gas, and that cleared it up. I suspected that it had something to do with the ethanol. I will most definately be running at least a small amount of Iso in my PWC this summer.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:37 AM   #22
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Default A possible solution

I hope I inserted this link right http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/boatus/200805/#/10 and it works. If not, its out of the May '08 issue of Boat US on page seven. Its about a law in Oregon that exempts Marinas from having to use blended fuel. It is an interesting read and something our own state should think about. I hope the link works and you all enjoy it.
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:58 PM   #23
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Default no good

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKSUKR View Post
Most boats have a water separator.My PWC does.I'd be more concerned about the type of fuel tank if it is made of fiberglass.
according to the Boat/US article:
"There is no quick fix. When MTBE becomes saturated with water, it remains chemically bonded to the gasoline—MTBE doesn’t phase separate—and a water separator can eliminate the excess moisture. With ethanol-enhanced gasoline, however, once phase separation occurs, additives and water separators can’t help; the only remedy is to have gasoline/ethanol/water pumped from the tank."
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:16 PM   #24
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My bad,I stand corrected.I trailer my boat so I've always used fuel at pumps off the lake and assume they have had the blend since,well since whenever Nh pumps started using it.I've not had any problems in 5 years.I need to know more.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:18 PM   #25
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First you have to get past old fuel lines and fiberglass fuel tanks, which are either dangerous, expensive or both. Get those fixed or somehow avoid ethanol.

After that, the only real way to avoid ethanol problems, if you can't avoid ethanol, is keep your gas fresh. That means buy gas from places that push a lot of fuel, so you know it fresh. Only buy what fuel you can use in a few weeks. Ethanol sucks water from the air, so the longer it's hanging around, the more water you get. Eventually the fuel can't hold the water and problems can happen.
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:36 AM   #26
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Thumbs down Gas Prices

I looked the other day and it was @ $4.09

Looks like there will be a lot of sitting at the sand bar this year.

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Old 05-02-2008, 05:14 PM   #27
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Feel good about NH gas. I just paid $4.77 in FL.
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:51 PM   #28
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Default Marina Gas prices

Melvin Village Marina was $4.19 on Sat 5/3.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:24 AM   #29
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I haven't had the courage to ask the marina here yet. It is what it is I guess.

Oil just blasted to $122 today, so new loads will be pretty darn high.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWC... View Post
Here's a news flash from Shell...

Sales were up 55 percent to $114 billion.

Now, doesn't that make you happy for Shell?!?!?!

So much for reducing personal usage by 10%...

Have a great Summer on the Lake...

I don't get it, I thought the prices were going up for the stations also? I remember a thread a short time ago when people argued filling stations were only making pennies per gallon. So who's jacking up prices OPEC or the oil companies themselves? Oil day traders aren't helping matters any either.
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:03 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWC... View Post
Here's a news flash from Shell...

Sales were up 55 percent to $114 billion.

Now, doesn't that make you happy for Shell?!?!?!

So much for reducing personal usage by 10%...

Have a great Summer on the Lake...
Their sales are up because their prices went up.
What was their profit in terms of percent of their sales? not dollars...percent?
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:28 AM   #32
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Question Phase Separation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
according to the Boat/US article:
"There is no quick fix. When MTBE becomes saturated with water, it remains chemically bonded to the gasoline—MTBE doesn’t phase separate—and a water separator can eliminate the excess moisture. With ethanol-enhanced gasoline, however, once phase separation occurs, additives and water separators can’t help; the only remedy is to have gasoline/ethanol/water pumped from the tank."
Is there any way to check your tank to see if the dreaded phase separation has occurred? I've overwintered my boat at W. Alton Marina with a full tank of gas (about 60 gallons).
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Old 05-06-2008, 03:30 PM   #33
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Their sales are up because their prices went up.
What was their profit in terms of percent of their sales? not dollars...percent?
It's not what people want to hear, but Oil's profit margin is less than Microsoft GM or even McDonald's, yet we're not proposing new taxes for those organizations.
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Old 05-06-2008, 06:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pricestavern View Post
Is there any way to check your tank to see if the dreaded phase separation has occurred? I've overwintered my boat at W. Alton Marina with a full tank of gas (about 60 gallons).
If you had a full tank, it should be ok. The problem mainly occurs if there is air space in the tank which allows moist air into the tank when temperature changes occur.
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Old 05-06-2008, 06:48 PM   #35
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Default another source for non-ethanol gas....

Irving on Rt. 25 in Ctr Harbor is another one that does not have ethanol in their fuel.
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:02 AM   #36
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It's not what people want to hear, but Oil's profit margin is less than Microsoft GM or even McDonald's, yet we're not proposing new taxes for those organizations.
Bingo!
I wish I was smart enough to hold onto that Exxon stock my Dad bought back in the early 80's.
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Old 05-07-2008, 09:42 AM   #37
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Default wrong direction

I think this thread is turning into discussion, as opposed to it's intended purpose...helping people find the cheapest gas on the lake. Anyway, just my opinion.
Does anyone know Lakeport's price?
Also:KJ Bathe,
Don't really see the your analogy, at all. Noone, in any way, shape, or form needs to buy McDonald's products, and noone has to do business with Microsoft. But gas and oil???!!! Don't really see where we have a choice. (spare me the part about driving a bike to work, or driving less). Gas prices continue to climb AND CRIPLE OUR ECONOMY, and yet profits for the oil companies are increasing. Yes, they have a product we have to buy...but what is causing the daily increase in prices?
Just venting, as current economic conditions are destroying my life, and everything I have worked for....
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:22 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
I think this thread is turning into discussion, as opposed to it's intended purpose...helping people find the cheapest gas on the lake. Anyway, just my opinion.
Does anyone know Lakeport's price?
Also:KJ Bathe,
Don't really see the your analogy, at all. Noone, in any way, shape, or form needs to buy McDonald's products, and noone has to do business with Microsoft. But gas and oil???!!! Don't really see where we have a choice. (spare me the part about driving a bike to work, or driving less). Gas prices continue to climb AND CRIPLE OUR ECONOMY, and yet profits for the oil companies are increasing. Yes, they have a product we have to buy...but what is causing the daily increase in prices?
Just venting, as current economic conditions are destroying my life, and everything I have worked for....
I can agree with you on all points, but one. First gas prices are killing me, as my commute is 100 miles a day.
However, the gas/oil companies are public companies. In our country, companies are free to make as much money as they can. Do we need gas/oil? Of course we do. However they are not the ones setting the prices...the commodoties traders/brokers are.

Take a look at the profit percentages of the oil companies. On average, their profit is 8-14% of gross. That has not changed, even with higher prices. Exxon/Mobil just made a $10 billion profit last quarter, which was 10% of the gross. In other words, it is costing them more to make it. Their profit percentage has stayed the same.

I am not defending the oil companies, just trying to set the record straight. Would I like to see prices go down? Sure would...but until we reduce our demand significantly, it is not going to happen.
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:57 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
I think this thread is turning into discussion, as opposed to it's intended purpose...helping people find the cheapest gas on the lake. Anyway, just my opinion.
Does anyone know Lakeport's price?

This was my intent, so we really do need gas price updates, the season is here!
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:32 AM   #40
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Unhappy

The Genie's out of the bottle, so let's do this and then get back to gas price updates around the lake....

My point is this: Folks like to pile on the oil companies for making huge profits. Now some folks think we should be taxing those "excess" profits. But these folks weren't rushing to bail out oil companies when they were losing money, bleeding jobs, and being forced to consolidate. So if we start down the slippery slope of taxing excess profits, where does it end? Disney just reported a 22% pop in Q1 results and over $1B in profit. Is it time for the government to crack down on gate fees and start taxing the mouse?

Oil companies are making money, and a lot of it. But that's why many companies go into business in this country -- to make money. It's easy to think they should just give some of that money back because it costs us more to buy their product, but that's not how the free market works. We also have to put the discussion in the proper context. These are not oil companies as much as they are energy companies. And If we think that taxing the energy companies more is going to help gas prices, you need to think again. In reality, companies don't pay taxes, CUSTOMERS of companies pay taxes. Slap a windfall profits tax on these energy companies and they'll just pass that additional cost right through to the pump. Washington taking their cut of the action, of course.

So taxing these supposed excess profits isn't the solution. Especially when certain folks want to start by taxing energy companies with profit margins well below that of many other companies. So what is the solution?

We have a worldwide population that is consuming gads and gads of oil-based products and looking for more. India, China, Europe, and the US are all competing for the same oil coming out of the same limited number of holes poked in the earth. OPEC has no interest in increasing production to ease demand and in this country no one wants to poke more holes off our coast, drill in Alaska, put a wind farm off the Cape, streamline the permitting process to increase refining capacity or approve more Nuclear Power plants. So here we are at $4.09 and climbing. And short of reducing demand, producing more of our own and actively engaging to develop new technologies, there is no current solution.

And we did it to ourselves...
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:06 PM   #41
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Default ...for less than a gallon of gasoline!

Here's how to get a Lakes Region, Meredith McMeal, for less than the price of a gallon of gasoline.

$3.24, 3.00 & 0.24 NH tax, gets you a choice of a double cheeseburger or mcchicken sandwich, choice of 4 different side salads, a yogurt parfait, and a big cup of drinking water. Probably less than the price of just the tip at many other area restaurants

All for 3.24, which is now less than a gallon of gasoline. The Meredith McDonald's is simply head & shoulders above most all other McDonalds.

Something to think about while you are towing the boat north to Lake Winnipesaukee........ $3.24 for a not too bad meal.
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:47 PM   #42
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Default Well

Even though I want this back to gas prices only
what kjbathe is saying is true and I agree, except oil is a commodity, just like a utility is and utilities are regulated by state and federal governments. The Mouse (Disney) is something you can do with out, and therefore even more of a great busines venture because it is not needed yet they increase in profits every year!

The main issue is this, gas/oil is somethign that is used every day much like a utility, and as the old saying can go, it looks like a utility, smells like a utility, sounds like a utility, walks like a utility, then it is a UTILITY! and therefore just like the other public companies that run utilities are regulated so too should gas companies, but then in all over our government, not just the top, there are a lot of Oil Babies.

NOW BACK TO THE MATTER AT HAND - HOW MUCH TO FILL MY 70 GALLON TANK!
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Old 05-07-2008, 02:01 PM   #43
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Getting back to the intent of this thread...no matter how we slice it, it is going to be an expensive boating season. Make sure you all save your receipts to submit for the state tax reimbursement...assuming that can still be done.
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:59 PM   #44
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Back when gas was $2/gal we were told how lucky we were because gas in other countries (France, U.K., Japan etc) was $5, $6, $7 /gal. Are the prices in these other countries rising correspondingly? Are they now paying $8, $10, $12 gal? Haven't heard THAT information in the news. I watched Irving across the street raise their gas almost $ .10 in three jumps between 8:30 this morning and 2:00 this afternoon and they got no fuel deliveries at all. How much is enough? $10/gal? $12/gal? Whats the figure? $1000 to fill the tank in my boat? $150 to fill the tank in my midsized car? $15 to fill the tank in my lawnmower for my postage stamp lawn? The Genie is definately out of the bottle and he likes being out.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:25 PM   #45
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Default Lakeport Gas Price

Monday the price at Lakeport was $3.82, anyone find anything lower than that?
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:09 AM   #46
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Default Sta-bil

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
Very true. Ethanol has been wreaking havoc in small engines, especially 2 strokes. You should have seen the carburator on my snowblower last fall. U.G.L.Y.
I was having some probs with my snowmobile this winter. It was running real rough in the midrange, and that was after I took apart and cleaned my carbs. I added some Iso-Heet to the gas, and that cleared it up. I suspected that it had something to do with the ethanol. I will most definately be running at least a small amount of Iso in my PWC this summer.

Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer offers a product for ethanol blends. Might be worth an investment!
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:47 AM   #47
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Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer offers a product for ethanol blends. Might be worth an investment!
Been there, tried that. Funny thing...I never used Sta-bil before last fall. Used it, and had probs on both machines I used it on. Maybe I should have just skipped it.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:23 AM   #48
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Oh well, you can always turn off that gasoline guzzl'n engine, and just drift along between Timber & Governor's' Island, and watch that sun as it sets behind Meredith Bay.

Am patiently waiting for the water temp to reach 60 degrees before reaching out in the Tink-R-Belle; my 11'11" no gasoline, no registration, no insurance sailboat answer to four dollar gasoline!

Wave to me, and I'll wave back!
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:35 AM   #49
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Here is my budget for the day on the lake:

Gas in the Escalade: $100
Gas in the 2 Jetski's: $180
Food and drinks: $75.00
Total: $355.00

Is it worth it? HELL YA!
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:44 AM   #50
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Here is my budget for the day on the lake:

Gas in the Escalade: $100
Gas in the 2 Jetski's: $180
Food and drinks: $75.00
Total: $355.00

Is it worth it? HELL YA!
After spending that much $$ on gas, you better up the budget for the drinks...helps drown the sorrows.
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:47 PM   #51
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After spending that much $$ on gas, you better up the budget for the drinks...helps drown the sorrows.
But make sure you have a designated driver first!!!

(sigh).............It's going to be an awfully expensive summer boating season.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:44 PM   #52
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Default priceless

How many days a week can you afford to do that?
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Old 05-10-2008, 03:28 PM   #53
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If any one wants to go back to the subject at hand. Gas at Lakeport 3.95

Irwin 4.09 and Channel 3.89. Saturday.

Last edited by PC31; 03-12-2011 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:05 PM   #54
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I've never seen Lakeport higher then Channel, thats a first.
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:54 PM   #55
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I've never seen Lakeport higher then Channel, thats a first.
I was surprised also. I'm sure it is just temporary.

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Old 05-11-2008, 12:21 PM   #56
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Fay's still at $4.05 as of Saturday afternoon. It was beautiful out there Saturday -- like having a private lake.
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Old 05-11-2008, 04:35 PM   #57
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Default Mvyc

Mountain View was at $3.98 on Saturday. I still had 7/8 of a tank of last year's "cheap" gas. Lake was beautiful on Saturday. Good to be out again.
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:29 PM   #58
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Shep Brown's was at $4.209 on Saturday. We filled up at the Cumberland Farms on the hill near the Weirs and paid $3.629. This was our first time on the lake this year and the earliest ever. We bought a new boat this spring and were anxious to check it out and we wanted to make sure the roof on our cottage on Bear was intact. It was a very nice afternoon for some early season boating. As for the roof we only had one loose shingle.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:14 AM   #59
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Fay's went up to $4.15 Tuesday evening.

I had gone out Tuesday afternoon when it was $4.05 making a mental note to fill the tank up on Wednesday befor it went up. I was too late but filled up anyway as it is sure to go up again.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:32 AM   #60
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Cool getting gassed

I expect it to hit $5.00 per gallon mid season............ Gotta love it!

Remember....When Bush Took Office, Gas Was $1.46
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:32 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeti View Post
I expect it to hit $5.00 per gallon mid season............ Gotta love it!

Remember....When Bush Took Office, Gas Was $1.46
Let's not forget November 1998 fuel prices...

(Gee, who was in the Oval Office besides Monica? )

November 1998

Heating Oil $.784 per gallon
Propane 1 $1.088 per gallon
Kerosene $1.025 per gallon
Electricity 2 $.134 per kilowatt hour
Natural Gas 3 $.784 per therm 4
Gasoline (Self-Serve Regular) $1.016 per gallon
Gasoline (All Grades) $1.161 per gallon
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:47 AM   #62
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Unhappy Nice try, but...

Quote:
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Remember....When Bush Took Office, Gas Was $1.46
Remember.... that prices are up another 50% since the Dems assumed control of Congress with a promise of reducing prices with a comprehensive energy plan. As the branch that creates the laws and approves the spending, I'm anxiously awaiting for them to reveal said plan. The reason they haven't? This is a demand problem, not a political problem.

Glad I topped off at $4.05...
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:18 PM   #63
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Remember.... that prices are up another 50% since the Dems assumed control of Congress with a promise of reducing prices with a comprehensive energy plan. As the branch that creates the laws and approves the spending, I'm anxiously awaiting for them to reveal said plan.
While our dependence on middle east oil threatens to cripple our economy and create a bleak future for our children here is the Democrat's plan:

1. Drill our own vast oil resources in ANWR? NO
2. Drill our own vast additional resources in the Gulf of Mexico? NO
3. Drill our own vast additional resources on the west coast? NO
4. Use our vast resources of oil shale in our western states? NO
5. Build more refineries? NO
6. Build more hydroelectric plants? NO
7. Build nuclear plants? NO
8. Build windmill farms off the coast? NO

How do you develop an energy policy based on "NO"?

You see, we MUST get the oil from our enemies. Any and all attempts to develop our own resources until alternative energy can be developed are unacceptable to Democrats and they will block them as they did this week.

Everything the Democrats (and many RINO's) in Congress do is anti-energy.

It's only a matter of time until the price and lack of supply and refining capacity makes it impossible for many of us to get to the lake or afford to take our boats out.
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:33 AM   #64
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Thumbs up nice link

Excellent post and link, Boater! It does say it all.

Seems the environmentalists have no problem messing up other parts of the world where millions of people live (Middle East), as long as we don't disturb a few caribou. Do they forget that we have to transport that oil through our oceans to feed our energy needs here?
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:35 AM   #65
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You hit the perverbial nail on the head boater.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:02 AM   #66
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Their ultimate goal is to make all of us "go green". Make it so expensive that we are forced to use as little oil as possible. It is all part of the global warming scheme.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:43 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boater View Post
While our dependence on middle east oil threatens to cripple our economy and create a bleak future for our children here is the Democrat's plan:

1. Drill our own vast oil resources in ANWR? NO
2. Drill our own vast additional resources in the Gulf of Mexico? NO
3. Drill our own vast additional resources on the west coast? NO
4. Use our vast resources of oil shale in our western states? NO
5. Build more refineries? NO
6. Build more hydroelectric plants? NO
7. Build nuclear plants? NO
8. Build windmill farms off the coast? NO

How do you develop an energy policy based on "NO"?

You see, we MUST get the oil from our enemies. Any and all attempts to develop our own resources until alternative energy can be developed are unacceptable to Democrats and they will block them as they did this week.

Everything the Democrats (and many RINO's) in Congress do is anti-energy.

It's only a matter of time until the price and lack of supply and refining capacity makes it impossible for many of us to get to the lake or afford to take our boats out.
The Energy Information Administration, which is the Energy Department's independent analytical arm, estimated that if Congress had cleared Bush's ANWR drilling plan the oil would have been available to refiners in 2011, but only at a small volume of 40,000 barrels a day -- a drop in the bucket compared with the 20.6 million barrels the U.S. consumes daily.

At peak production, ANWR could have potentially added 780,000 barrels a day to U.S. crude oil output by 2020, according to the EIA.

"Even if oil was flowing, it would be too small amount to reduce the price" of crude or gasoline, said Daniel Weiss, energy expert at the Center for American Progress, a think tank in Washington.

"President Bush's claim ignores the primary causes behind record high oil prices: a cheap dollar, high demand from China and India, and speculators driving the price up. Drilling and sullying the Arctic would not address any of these causes of high oil prices,
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:04 PM   #68
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You all forget that the current administration's solution to high gas prices was ethanol. How's THAT working out for us? 'Scuse me if I don't exactly trust the republican administration's energy policy.

And btw, even if we started exploring ANWR now, we would not realize the increased supply until 2013!!! And at what savings? An estimated $0.50 per barrel. That's worth what, a nickel at the pump? Wow, that's totally worth it! That's a point Newsmax and Boater forgot to note.

The bottom line is that the free market will sort things out; when gas gets too expensive, alternative energy will become a more viable and economical option, which will in turn drive the price of oil down as demand wanes. Its going to take a long time and there is no easy solution- we are going to suffer though many years of growing pains, but we have to get sicker before we get healthier.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:24 PM   #69
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The greenies need to stop protesting wind farms, and other alternative energy sources.

The motto: Not In My Backyard!! Just ask Ted Kennedy about that one.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:37 PM   #70
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The greenies need to stop protesting wind farms, and other alternative energy sources.
Clearly you are NOT an environmentalist, but my guess is that if there was a proposal to build a wind farm in or around Winni, your would be against it just as 95% of the people on this board would be... NIMBY syndrome is not exclusive to "greenies".

A friend of mine has been fighting tooth and nail against a proposed wind farm in the St Lawrence River adjacent to his summer home. He is about as conservative as they come.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:29 PM   #71
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The greenies need to stop protesting wind farms, and other alternative energy sources.

The motto: Not In My Backyard!! Just ask Ted Kennedy about that one.
Teddy Bear let the Gov, of Ma have the final say, Mitt the pit.. Vowed to Veto it!!!! Go figure.. Gov Patrick, DEM>>>>> ......... is all for it..

Jim Gordon founder of http://www.capewind.org , Bought a home off my bro, http://www.clifdenhouse.net/
Cool guy.. I personally love the Idea.. I am building out Geo Thermal and Solar for my home today...

go Green, Get Lean!
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:38 PM   #72
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Clearly you are NOT an environmentalist, but my guess is that if there was a proposal to build a wind farm in or around Winni, your would be against it just as 95% of the people on this board would be... NIMBY syndrome is not exclusive to "greenies".

A friend of mine has been fighting tooth and nail against a proposed wind farm in the St Lawrence River adjacent to his summer home. He is about as conservative as they come.
You could not be more wrong about me. No, I am not an environmentalist. That part you are right about. However, if I could put a windmill or 10 in my yard, and generate power for myself and my neighbors, I would (for a small fee of course). I HATE paying my fuel oil bill.

I would just have to swerve around the towers when I am snowmobiling around the yard.

And yes, I would put a cell phone tower in my yard too. I could use the extra $$.

The world is changing. Our direct area is changing. People need to start changing with it.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:35 PM   #73
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Default Peak Oil...

If you Google "Peak Oil" you'll see what it's probably all about. www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net seems to be one of the most popular sites about it. I think that was #1 in the Google results.

An analogy: When you have a leaf pile you're hauling off to the woods in barrels, you can fill that barrel pretty fast when the pile is still fresh. After you get past the halfway point in the pile, it takes you longer to fill the barrel, even though you still have half the leaves left. The smaller the pile gets, the longer it takes you to fill the barrel.

According to this info, oil fields are like that, too. Recent news reports have hinted that the world's oil supply is at that critical halfway point right now.

Do the Googling. The information isn't getting a lot of press because too many viewers care more about Britney Spears getting her life back together. If the predictions are true, then Boat gas is cheap now. There's gotta be a way to use lake algae or seagull poop for boat fuel. Any engineers out there?
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:52 PM   #74
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People really need to read up on refineries, especially about exporting diesel for fun and profits. Guys like Rush are pretty good at getting talking points out, but not much for facts.

BTW, refiners shifted production from gas to deisel, for fun and profit.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:44 AM   #75
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Here's a bipartisan method for reducing the price of gasoline. It could be priced by the quart....aka.....only .95/quart.....like wow....what a deal!

Is Winnipesaukee boating gonna welcome a new style of boating? Will we be seeing lightweight aluminum skiffs with long narrow hulls powered by a small outboard that sips gas as it putts along at a low speed, and never get up on plane. Something like a Prius car designed for the water.

In about 1994 a Japanese fisherman crossed the Atlantic Ocean in a very lightweight 26' boat powered by a 1 1/2hp Tohatsu outboard, if I recall correct, www.tohatsu.com. Picture cruising all the way from Meredith to Wolfeboro in such a boat while using a minimal amount of gasoline. Maybe even getting passed.......good grief...by a sailboat.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:44 PM   #76
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BTW, refiners shifted production from gas to deisel, for fun and profit.
Even though refiners have shifted some more production to diesel, they can only move a limited percentage to diesel. To go beyond that can take a major reconfiguration of the refinery systems, something they have neither the time nor capacity to do.
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Old 05-21-2008, 06:41 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Here's a bipartisan method for reducing the price of gasoline. It could be priced by the quart....aka.....only .95/quart.....like wow....what a deal!

Is Winnipesaukee boating gonna welcome a new style of boating? Will we be seeing lightweight aluminum skiffs with long narrow hulls powered by a small outboard that sips gas as it putts along at a low speed, and never get up on plane. Something like a Prius car designed for the water.

In about 1994 a Japanese fisherman crossed the Atlantic Ocean in a very lightweight 26' boat powered by a 1 1/2hp Tohatsu outboard, if I recall correct, www.tohatsu.com. Picture cruising all the way from Meredith to Wolfeboro in such a boat while using a minimal amount of gasoline. Maybe even getting passed.......good grief...by a sailboat.
That is cool. I just read the story. Not my cup of tea but wow what a trip.

Direct link http://www.tohatsu.com/news/seiko.html
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:55 PM   #78
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Default Gas prices around the world

Here's something I came across today. I'm no greenie and don't believe any of Al Gore's BS about climate change (can't call it global warming anymore after a record amount of snow this winter). My question is with Canada being a large producer of oil why is there price so much higher (at least a dollar more) than in the US? I guess it's the taxes up there. If we drilled in ANWR, off the coasts of CA and FL, in North Dakota, and maximized the technology of coal shale in the west, I don't think we'd see that much decrease in a price of gas, IMHO.

Nation City Price in USD Regular/Gallon
Netherlands Amsterdam $6.48
Norway Oslo $6.27
Italy Milan $5.96
Denmark Copenhagen $5.93
Belgium Brussels $5.91
Sweden Stockholm $5.80
United Kingdom London $5.79
Germany Frankfurt $5.57
France Paris $5.54
Portugal Lisbon $5.35
Hungary Budapest $4.94
Luxembourg $4.82
Croatia Zagreb $4.81
Ireland Dublin $4.78
Switzerland Geneva $4.74
Canada Ottawa $4.67
Spain Madrid $4.55
Japan Tokyo $4.24
Czech Republic Prague $4.19
Romania Bucharest $4.09
Andorra $4.08
Estonia Tallinn $3.62
Bulgaria Sofia $3.52
Brazil Brasilia $3.12
Cuba Havana $3.03
Taiwan Taipei $2.84
Lebanon Beirut $2.63
South Africa Johannesburg $2.62
Nicaragua Managua $2.61
Panama Panama City $2.19
Russia Moscow $2.10
Puerto Rico San Juan $1.74
Saudi Arabia Riyadh $0.91
Kuwait Kuwait City $0.78
Egypt Cairo $0.65
Nigeria Lagos $0.38
Venezuela Caracas $0.12
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:22 AM   #79
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Default We must act now or pay later!

I don't know KnotK, what about Venezuala at 12 cents a gallon?

The real point is, whether or not we ever see prices go back down, the future is certainly out of our control if we don't get more domestic control over such a critical resource, both by reducing growth in demand (alternatives), and finding our own sources in this hemisphere. The Congress seems content doing a lot of finger pointing with no plan. We need a plan and a leader to implement it.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:50 PM   #80
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Orion,

I agree with you. The finger pointing isn't going to help any of us out in the long run. For some of us older folk that can remember back to the late 70's when gas almost doubled, interest rates were on the rise toward 20% as well. Not exactly the same as what is happening today, but similar. We all survived but it was painful for many. Hopefully we all survive this hickup too.

And, as for Venezuala, the government controls CITGO so I would think that it is probably subsidized to keep it $0.12 a gallon.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:17 PM   #81
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I also am not sure that drilling more will help. There certainly is no shortage of oil now. Refinement seems to be the bottle neck as far as that is concerted. Also all the environmental regulations for so many different blends of fuel. Low Sulfer deisel has driven up the prices HUGE. The week US currency, feer generated by the media, speculation on the comodities market, demand from countries like China....... I could go on and on. The price IMO is hear to stay and I think it is not going to stop tell we hit about 5 bucks a gallon. Then it will take some kind of new technology to come into play be it hydrogen or what ever.

I purchased a Hybrid Escape last month and so far have to say that I am impressed with it. The fuel savings alone over my truck pays for the car and then some! If they came out with a hydrogen fuel cell that could let me fill up with water I would pay 100K for it (I drive a LOT). The good news is that the higher the price of fuel the more that alternatives will be pushed and they become more viable.
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:29 AM   #82
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I also am not sure that drilling more will help. There certainly is no shortage of oil now. Refinement seems to be the bottle neck as far as that is concerted. Also all the environmental regulations for so many different blends of fuel. Low Sulfer deisel has driven up the prices HUGE. The week US currency, feer generated by the media, speculation on the comodities market, demand from countries like China....... I could go on and on. The price IMO is hear to stay and I think it is not going to stop tell we hit about 5 bucks a gallon. Then it will take some kind of new technology to come into play be it hydrogen or what ever.
The $135/barrel cost driver is for crude, not refined fuels. More wells means more of the raw material. You are correct that refining is also a bottleneck, but the big driver right now is the control that the Middle East has on the cost of crude.......and China is just beginning to ramp up demand. Wait a few years and we'll look back fondly on these days when China was just starting to industrialize.

It's a 3 part fix: Reduce demand where possible (just helps slow down growth, realistically); more sources for crude; increased refining.
.....and our leaders are still just hand-wringing.

Here's how we can help here at Winni. Boats running at "no wake" speed get, on average, about double the MPG than at "cruising" speed. For most of us our purpose for coming to the lake to enjoy the lake. So, take a 2 hour cruise instead of a 20-minute cruise and enjoy the view, the quiet, and the company.
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Old 05-23-2008, 08:56 AM   #83
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Of course we could just be positioning ourselves to be the only country with oil left if they ever run out in the Middle East, Canada, Venesuela (sp)......

The reason that I do not think that the problem is supply side on crude is that we have HUGE reserves. Demand has dropped in the US (a little) yet prices continue to skyrocket. Get a strong dollar again and the price will fall about 30%. As soon as you let people speculate on a commodity like oil you drive the price up as well. Blaming the Middle East for not giving us enough or Chavez IMO is wrong. I was amazed the other day to see how much of our oil we ship out of this country.

Once the alternatives hit oil will be worthless and those countries are going to be bumming. The Middle east only has oil so IMO they do not want the price of oil this high because they know that at this price point alternative start to become more viable. When oil was 30 bucks a barrel who cared....
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:31 AM   #84
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Back when gas was $2/gal we were told how lucky we were because gas in other countries (France, U.K., Japan etc) was $5, $6, $7 /gal. Are the prices in these other countries rising correspondingly? Are they now paying $8, $10, $12 gal?
I guess the answer is yes:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&cl...um=11&ct=title


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Old 06-10-2008, 08:24 AM   #85
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"WASHINGTON - With gasoline prices topping $4 a gallon, Senate Democrats want the government to grab some of the billions of dollars in profits being taken in by the major oil companies."

I like that they got it right in their use of "grab". How will that help any of us?

And my favorite quote from today's story is, "The oil companies need to know that there is a limit on how much profit they can take in this economy," said Sen. Richard Durbin of Illinois, the Senate's No. 2 Democrat.

Yah. That thinking is exactly how this country was built. We're going to tax ourselves out of this problem. Brilliant...
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:38 AM   #86
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"WASHINGTON - With gasoline prices topping $4 a gallon, Senate Democrats want the government to grab some of the billions of dollars in profits being taken in by the major oil companies."

I like that they got it right in their use of "grab". How will that help any of us?

And my favorite quote from today's story is, "The oil companies need to know that there is a limit on how much profit they can take in this economy," said Sen. Richard Durbin of Illinois, the Senate's No. 2 Democrat.

Yah. That thinking is exactly how this country was built. We're going to tax ourselves out of this problem. Brilliant...
that is crap to be honest. lets tax them so when their profits get cut they just raise price. and youknow what the whole thing about other countries, well guess what, they get schooling, health care, dental care, and other perks that we have to pay for. Here we pay for the gas and these things. That arguement does nto hold water and I for one am sick of hearing it.
Gas needs to be regulated like a utility, but you know what they will screw that one up as well.

Oh wait can we start drilling now? pretty please, wish this would have never stopped
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:54 AM   #87
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Default Marina Gas Price Comments

To put things in perspective....

The Democrats have controlled the U.S. Senate and House for two years.
A new Speaker of the House was appointed 'Nancy Pelosi', to preside over the House and hand-select what bills would come before Congress.

There hasn't been one bill reviewed or voted upon, pertaining to
a long-term energy plan, or control of gasoline/oil supplies.
They had control and havent taken one step closer to solving any of these problems ! They don't have a clue. FYI... At the time Speaker Pelosi took office two years ago, the price of gas was $2.25 a gallon. In less than two years the price has almost doubled! What does this tell us.......

There also hasn't been any new oil refineries built in this country for over 40 years, up until recently. Even if we had all the oil we wanted, we don't have the means to process it. Blame the oil companies for that. Bad planning and foresight on their part, shame on them!

Had this country taken a long-term approach and developed an energy plan back in the 80;s (maybe it was he 70's ?), when we were gas rationing
and got a wake-up call, we probably wouldn't be in our current situation.
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:02 AM   #88
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Default Right on!

You're right on all counts, bigdog!
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:43 AM   #89
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I was looking through the Winni gas prices on the other thread to see if there were any odd trends. In general, everyone is trending up equally. High on the lake right now is $4.75 and low is $4.19. Average price today is $4.64 vs. $4.02 a month ago.

*IF* this past month's upward trend continues unchanged the rest of the summer, my projection shows we'd be paying an average of $6.35 / gallon on the lake at Labor Day. I have no idea if prices will continue to climb the way they did to start this season (I'm thinking they would level off somewhat) but $6.35 certainly grabbed my attention.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:30 PM   #90
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that is crap to be honest. lets tax them so when their profits get cut they just raise price. and youknow what the whole thing about other countries, well guess what, they get schooling, health care, dental care, and other perks that we have to pay for. Here we pay for the gas and these things. That arguement does nto hold water and I for one am sick of hearing it.
Gas needs to be regulated like a utility, but you know what they will screw that one up as well.

Oh wait can we start drilling now? pretty please, wish this would have never stopped
Read the foreign news sites and you will see why regulation is not working.

British people are currently protesting their government's fuel taxes which put their gas prices much higher than ours right now. Their liberal party is currently in power and the conservatives are quickly gaining ground as a result of those in power taking the blame for what's going on.

I have many friends who are British and I've yet to hear more than one positive comment about their health system because the quality isn't there. In Canada, the national health service is falling apart - there are many Canadian healthcare seekers who cross the border into the US in order to self-pay for quality and timeliness that aren't available from a government.

The more money any given government gets its hands on (regardless of the source), the more it will borrow against tomorrow's anticipated revenue, and the further into debt it will go, until finally it becomes financially impossible to support any longer. We could tax the windfall profits of the oil companies, but the government will very quickly learn to rely on that income. That will be a problem when the bubble bursts. What goes up comes down just as quickly. There are already career investors selling their oil stocks as a result - cashing in now instead of waiting to see what happens. Something has to break - no one knows what it will be, but whatever it is, the current oil profits are not sustainable long-term and therefore a tax on their profits could never be a reliable source of income for the government.

In countries that regulate the price of gasoline by subsidizing it (like Indonesia,) the governments are feeling the financial strain and calling it quits on subsidies. There have been riots when the people of those countries discovered what it really costs.

What's all this mean for the marinas around here? If so many other countries are feeling shock of high-priced oil, then we Winnipesaukee Boaters can't expect our leaders to be able to change anything. Our problem starts with the fact that there's very little supply cushion in oil right now. Demand and supply are just about equal. Knowing this, Wall Street oil buyers are panic buying. The panic buying model is best illustrated by the rush of people who go to the store as soon as the weatherman mentions a chance of snow. They fear it might be the Great Blizzard and that they may face a shortage of personal supplies so they mob the stores to buy a million things they probably won't even use. With daily oil output currently meeting demand (barely), the Wall St. buyers are going into panic-buy mode at the mention of the slightest possible interruption in the supply (which would cause a shortage, if it happened.) These guys on Wall St. want to own barrels of oil in the event of such a shortage.

So where do marina gas prices (and others around the lake) go for the summer? As long as the news on possible interruptions to the oil supply are quiet for the summer, prices would stay about where they are now.

Don't let the lack of a shortage fool you: We're in a situation where it wouldn't take much of an interruption in supply to create one. If a hurricane starts to form, or if news breaks that a strange-looking man is lighting off firecrackers within 10 miles of an oil pipeline, the Wall St. oil buyers are going to speculate that there will be a sudden shortage and they will bid up the oil price on that day. We will feel it in the form of higher gas prices, as will everyone else in the world (when the foreign oil markets react in the same way.) If the threats to the supply keep coming, the price will keep rising as long as supply remains only slightly greater than demand. Everyone will look to and blame their ruling powers regardless of what party they are, and people in many countries will demand that any taxes on fuel be removed.

What we really need is a much bigger oil supply cushion like we always used to have... or the means to make up for any shortage that comes along. "Having a cushion" is the universal safety solution for just about everything, like when you go hiking in the White Mountains, you bring an extra set of clothing (I hope!). Your original set of clothing is enough, but White Mountain weather could change all that.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:23 AM   #91
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Default The answer.

Good post CLA.

Now here's the answer once and for all.....

electric cars & nuclear power plants


If the "greenies" had realized that nuclear power is really "green" power in the '70s we would be in a better position today (not to mention the deaths of so many coal miners over the last 30 years).
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:42 PM   #92
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Now here's the answer once and for all.....

If the "greenies" had realized that nuclear power is really "green" power in the '70s we would be in a better position today (not to mention the deaths of so many coal miners over the last 30 years).
You seem to forget about Texas Utilities and their coal fired energy plants and capitalism and political activists (they are waiting in the wings, should they be needed, again).

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