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Old 08-05-2015, 07:29 AM   #1
winlessinnh
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Default Gas tank clean out

Does anyone have a recommendation as to who can to fuel polishing and gas tank clean out on the lake?
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:49 AM   #2
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Can you clarify what you are looking for?
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:39 PM   #3
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I just had my carbonator rebuilt on my outboard. They emptied my 55 gallon tank when they did it. I filled the tank and now I have water and have to keep emptying the water separator. I want to make sure the tank is cleaned and instead of dumping the gas I wanted it polished.
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:34 PM   #4
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I've heard of diesel fuel. kerosene, home heating oil, jet fuel polishing, among some other light oils, but never gasoline polishing. Are you buying gas that is contaminated with water?
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:38 PM   #5
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If you are good with your hands and not too worried about working with gasoline around a boat, I can tell you how to get rid of the water in it yourself.

I had to deal with this 2 years ago and developed a pretty good method to do it myself.

You will also need to find out how the water got in your tank after it was previously emptied so to ensure that it doesn't happen again. This took me a while on my boat, but I think I finally found out how it was happening, and I believe I solved the root cause of the problem.

My method is not really 'fuel polishing' (I think this term is mostly for diesel fuel) but if it's relatively fresh gasoline, it will get rid of the water.

55 Gallons sounds like an internal tank, vs a portable tank, but it's doable. I had to pump out and clean 55 gallons myself. In the end, I removed about 2.5 gallons of water. I was able to do this without throwing out 55 gallons of gasoline (this was huge for me at the price of fuel was about $4 a gallon at the time).

Let me know if you would like the procedure, or if you prefer to find someone to pay to do it (I don't have connections for someone else as I did it myself).
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:06 AM   #6
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I haven't found anyone so I'd love if you'd send me the procedure. Thanks
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Old 08-11-2015, 12:14 PM   #7
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I'm happy to share my procedure. I'll include it here in case it can also help someone else, or if you have some questions.

I believe this procedure will only work with water that recently got into the tank and that the gasoline is relatively fresh (not stale). I don't think it will help much if your gasoline has suffered 'phase separation' (Google it if you need to).

First and most important, always remember that you're working with gasoline, and the fumes are heavier than air, and explosive. So be sure to have everything turned off on your boat, the blowers on. Be careful not to have anything that can cause a spark, including static electricity. If you don't know what this means, or not comfortable working with the gas and fumes it can create, don't try this procedure.

I did this myself with my boat in the water.

The best way to get access to the inside of your fuel tank to remove the water is probably via the fuel level sender. Don't try to use the fuel fill pipe or vent pipe as you need to see into the tank. Opening the sender will allow you to look into the fuel tank, which is key to this procedure.

Find the fuel level sender and its mounting plate on your tank. Hopefully it will be in an accessible location to allow you to look into the tank through its opening. If you can find the fuel sender, but its not in a location that will allow you to look into the tank, don't try this procedure, as I'm not sure if you can do the job properly. As you read the rest of this you will see why you must be able to see all the way to the bottom of the tank via hole for the fuel sender.

The fuel level sender may look like, or similar to one of these:








On my boat I had to remove parts of a cabinet by unscrewing things, and remove an ice maker. Then beneath a mounting plate for the ice maker was an access port. Beneath the access port was the fuel sender. Yours will be totally different, but most boats allow for access to the fuel sender in case it needs to be serviced.

Mark the position of the fuel sender before you remove it, draw a line across one side of the fuel sender and extend the line onto the top of the tank. This may or may not be important, as some senders can only be installed one way, but to be sure, use a marker so as to be able to re-install the fuel sender into the same position as it was before you removed it.

Before you try to remove the fuel sender, get yourself a replacement gasket kit for it. The gasket kit will include a new gasket and gasketed cupped washers and screws. You don't want to start this without a new gasket to install when you are done. I've seen these available at Fayes, but most any marine shop should have them.

To remove the water from the tank, I used a non-metallic gasoline proof pump. If it's a hand pump, it will take you some time to pump 55 gallons, but at least you can do it safely without sparks. I used a pump like this one:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mityvac-MV...-Pump/41281696

I liked that it was non-metallic pump, and it was manual so there was no chance of creating a spark. Others told me to use an old electric automotive gasoline fuel pump, but I didn't want to chance any sparks as I turned it on or off. You also want to be careful of static electricity. So a humid summer day is best for this procedure vs a dry winter day.

To help with getting every drop of water, I also used a 3/8 copper tubing that was about 3 feet long (I got this at a local hardware store). This was attached to the end of the tubing from the pump. Being mostly rigid, it allowed me to use it as a wand to get to different spots into the tank though the fuel sender opening without trying to fight with the floppyness of a piece of flexible tubing.

I also purchased 12 5 Gallon gasoline cans from Walmart to allow me to hold the gas as I removed it:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/5-Gallon-A...e-Can/41080329
I got 12 of them, and returned the ones that I never used (Don't try to return any if you used it, they won't accept it if it was used at all).

As I thought about how to find and rid my tank of water, I remembered that water is heavier than gasoline and will sink directly to the bottom of the tank. Thinking about this more, and knowing that food coloring is water based, I thought 'bingo', I'll get some food coloring and use that to color the water to make it easy to see. I tested this idea and was surprised at how dramatically it allowed the water to be seen separately from the gasoline. There was no doubt about seeing the water!

Here's the secret sauce: Go to a local grocery store and buy a small bottle of black food coloring, since we're shopping at WalMart here's a link, but you can get this as most any grocery store:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/McCormick-...Color/10309022

Get all of your parts together, some fuel cans, tools, and paper towels to pick up any drips. Shut off all your boat's circuit breaker switches, disconnect AC power, basically anything that could create a spark. I left my blowers on to be sure that no gas fumes would get into the bilge. Remember that gasoline fumes are heavier than air and can sink into your bilge.

Now remove the fuel sender and set it to the side. Don't bend anything. If the wires are not long enough, you may need to cut wires to it. In this case you may need a crimp tool and butt crimp connectors to put it back together, or if you are lucky there will be nuts or screw terminals to remove and replace.

Once the fuel sender is removed you have two choices. Your need to decide if you want to remove ALL the fuel, or try to only remove the water. If you think you can see and easily get to the lowest point of the tank with the wand that is on the end of the fuel pump line, then you can try to only remove the water. If you can't easily see the lowest point of the tank, then you should do your best to remove all the fuel.

Remember that water is heavier than fuel and will sit on the bottom or on the lowest point of the tank.

You may need a flashlight to see what you are doing in these next steps.

Here is where the black food coloring comes in! Drop several drops of the black food coloring (you only need a few drops) into the tank. Try to rock the boat a bit to allow the food coloring to find the water. If there is water in the tank, the water will take on a black haze and this will allow it to be easily seen.

If there is no water in your tank, the black food coloring will sink to the bottom and you will see it sitting on the bottom of the tank as a few black spots sitting on the bottom of the tank.

If there appears to be a layer of black, this is your water. Use the pump and wand to get to the water and pump it into a gas can. Try to get every drop. As you get all of it, you will see small droplets that appear to 'float' on the bottom of the tank. Keep in mind that some tanks may have internal baffles that may prevent you from getting to, or seeing every corner of the tank. A small inspection mirror may help you to see into corners of the tank, don't drop it into your tank!!

If you think you can remove all the black, then you are done and probably don't need to pump out much gas. But if you're sure, just pump out all of the gasoline into the plastic gas cans.

I filled 11 gas cans with gas. I then took them home.

I let them sit for a week without touching them to allow the water to settle to the bottom. Then I placed a few drops of the black food coloring in each can. With this, I was able to find every drop of water. I then siphoned out the water from each can into another can to collect the water.

Here's what the water will look like with a few drops of the black food coloring. The black is the layer of water inside of a red gas can. You're looking through about 2.5 gallons of clear gasoline (you can't see the gasoline in this photo as it is too transparent) down to about 2.5 gallons of water (which is now black):



When I was done, I had collected about 2.5 gallons of water. I brought this to my town's hazardous waste collection day for proper disposal.

When you are done, reinstall the fuel level sender using the new gasket kit and new cupped washers. Be sure that nothing will leak. If you had to cut any wires to the fuel sender, reconnect them using barrel connectors and a proper crimping tool. You should also double check this area after your first gas fills to be SURE that you have no leaks at this point. If you want to be double sure, perhaps pay a marina to do a pressure test on your fuel system to be sure there are no leaks.

I decided to burn the gas in the cans in my car. This worked well, no wasted gasoline.

I hope this helps. It seems like a lot of details, but it's not too bad in practice. Most of the time was spent using the hand pump. I think it took me a couple of hours to do this job. It is helpful to have someone to help you (hopefully no one that smokes ).

This procedure saved me several hundred dollars. A marine tech can do this for you, but it will cost between $100 and $150 per hour for their time. Then they will want to dispose of the gasoline, which will cost a bit for both the contaminated fuel drum and the hazardous waste fees. I also was able to recover all but 3 gallons of the fuel and burn it in my car, so no wasted money there.

Again, be careful! Gasoline fumes are explosive!

Don't forget to find out how the water got into your tank in the first place. You want to fix this so that it doesn't happen again.

Let me know if you have any questions.
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Last edited by Rich; 08-12-2015 at 01:37 PM. Reason: grammar and check position of fuel sender
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Old 08-11-2015, 12:43 PM   #8
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Default ..... cleaning a red, six gallon tank?

So's, what works for cleaning out one of the bright red, 6-gallon portable gas tanks?


What comes to mind is to place a small amount of sand into the tank, and then shake the tank all about, sort of like using sand paper to clean the inside surfaces, and then rinsing several times with a small amount of gasoline to clean out any sand residue.


So, what do you think .....is this a good idea for cleaning the six gallon tank?
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:16 PM   #9
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cleaning what out of a small tank?

Do you mean a metal tank, and to clean it of rust, or corrosion? Buy a new tank IMHO.

If you are talking about a plastic tank, if there is water in it, my black food coloring procedure will easily identify the water, and then the water can be siphoned out easily.

If something else is inside the tank, use some small amount of gasoline to rinse it out onto paper towels, then burn the trash.

I wouldn't use sand inside any fuel tank. It won't absorb anything and would certainly screw up your engine's fuel system if any of it got picked up by the fuel line.
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:48 AM   #10
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Rich, unbelievable detail to the process. You should write training manuals for a living. Thanks for the procedure and for taking the time to explain it. Now I have my weekend project picked out.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:27 PM   #11
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Thanks, I'm glad you found it helpful. I made a couple of edits to clarify some things, you may want to read it again. Please be sure to let us know how you make out.

I have been in the computer and electronics industry for years. Being an engineer of various types over all of these years basically means I'm very detail oriented, bordering ADD, OCD, and I'm sure a few other three letter acronyms!
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Old 08-13-2015, 07:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
So's, what works for cleaning out one of the bright red, 6-gallon portable gas tanks? What comes to mind is to place a small amount of sand into the tank, and then shake the tank all about, sort of like using sand paper to clean the inside surfaces, and then rinsing several times with a small amount of gasoline to clean out any sand residue. So, what do you think .....is this a good idea for cleaning the six gallon tank?
I haven't tried it (yet) but sand may be the way to go for a steel tank with a rusted interior bottom.

First, remove the cap and fuel-management assembly. Then pour an eighth-inch of sand and large gravel into the tank, add a cup of water, secure it with a couple of lines, suspend it over the lake, and let boat wakes shake it up for several days.

Over winter, the interior will rust again, but there may be a desirable chemical treatment available: motorcyclists suggest a product called "Kreem".

If you're spiffying up the tank in other ways, parts, floats, gaskets and decals are available from www.nymarine.ca/.

Test the tank with gasoline. If the above treatment reveals a perforation, it's time to discard the tank. Within the past decade, replacement metal tanks were available from Defender Marine catalogues; but not sure if that's true today.



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Old 08-17-2015, 09:22 AM   #13
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I could imagine a grain getting stuck in a seam and getting dislodged later.

Be sure to use a good fuel filter after this. I would think that even one grain of sand into your carb/fuel injection system would not be good.

I would do this only if the tank was an old vintage tank to keep a vintage look on an old 'show' boat.

Otherwise, for the cost of a new tank, I'd prefer to replace it.

Not to say that this type of yankee remedy wouldn't work.
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winlessinnh View Post
Rich, unbelievable detail to the process. You should write training manuals for a living. Thanks for the procedure and for taking the time to explain it. Now I have my weekend project picked out.
Did you make any progress on this? If yes, how did you make out?
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:20 AM   #15
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Rich, I didn't get a chance this weekend but now I'm thinking that the problem isn't water in the gas. I had the carburetors rebuilt this winter and the motor has been running rough so I just thought it was water. The first couple of times it choked out I drained the separator and it seemed to run great for about 15 minutes and then choked out again. It happened again this weekend before I pulled the boat and I drained the separator again but his time when it choked out I noticed that if I took it our of gear I could rev it no problem which tells me it's something else. In fact I could restart it again unless I took it out of gear and gave it more throttle. I finally made my way to the boat ramp going about 5 mph and pulled it. I plan on taking it back to the shop that did the rebuild.
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:29 AM   #16
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Ok let us know, good luck!
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:43 PM   #17
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I didn't reread this thread to see if you did this but here is what a friend discovered on his 454 based in Hampton this weekend. They had similar issues and had drained the fuel tank, changed the fuel filter, changed plug wires, coil, and put a rebuilt carb on. No luck. They brought in a tech and he was starting to do a compression test and there was the problem...A cracked spark plug. The crack was barely visible but thats all it needs to short. It took a few minutes under way to clear the carbon or whatever from that cylinder but now she purrs. FWIW
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Old 08-19-2015, 10:32 PM   #18
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wow Rich! That's awesome .. your technical writing is excellent .. thanks for all of your shared nuggets of info )
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:58 AM   #19
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Thank you! I can only hope that it helps someone.
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:23 PM   #20
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Default Verdict is in

Well I hope the verdict is in. What I didn't explain earlier is last year I was having trouble with my 90hp Merc. Wouldn't start, stalling out, limited power. Took it to a dealer and he rebuilt the carbs. A lot of sludge from 13 years of ethanol. Drained and cleaned the tank. I put the boat in the water this year and filled up the tank with gas and still had a problem with poor running. Stalling out, no power, etc. I figured it was water this time. I put additives in the fuel, kept draining the water separator, and finally a couple weeks ago when I was still having problems with it I came to the conclusion it wasn't water. Wouldn't run in gear but I could rev when out of gear.

Took it back to the dealer, he had the mechanic clean the 4 carbs 4 times and still couldn't get it to run. Finally they took and had it cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner and it's running fine. (or so they say. Still to be tested.) Oh well, a wasted fishing season.
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Old 08-31-2015, 05:03 PM   #21
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Carbs can be funny and there are a lot of small passages in them, so I can see how an ultrasonic cleaning could do a better job.

Let us know how it goes when you get to test it. Hopefully your problem is solved.

I run Starton in all my engines now (except my car).
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