Under the Lake

[roundisland1]

Hi All,

I've been diving in the lake for years and have seen a measurable decline in general water quality and clarity in the last seven or eight years. Can anyone tell me if there is a group that monitors the impact of large boats located in large groups (ie. condo dock communities). To be specific, are there any checks and balances in place to protect against overboard discharge of heads? We would hope this would not be a concern however we also know that some feel the lake is theirs and they can do with it what they please. If there is such a group, I would like to volunteer to dive those locations and take samples. Is there a group that will test them?

[Rattlesnake Gal]

You might find what you are looking for at N.H. Department of Environmental Services. Good luck and thanks for caring about our great lake!

[Dave R]

While I applaud your desire to do something to help the health of the lake, I think the proposed effort will be futile. With all the free toilets around the lake and the vast collection of pump out stations, I cannot imagine that anyone on the lake would purposely put raw sewage in the lake; but if they did, how on earth would you be able to tell which boat did it?

I would guess that if indeed the lake clarity has gone down, it's much more likely due to runoff from the lake's shore due to all the new construction and existing homes, not sewage pumped from boats. It's impossible to duplicate the natural filtering capability of undisturbed duff on the forest floor. No matter what is done to slow the runoff on disturbed ground the near the shore, disturbing the ground never improves the filtering.

[Kamper]

The City of Laconia draws their drinking water from the lower end of Paugus Bay (the drain for the whole lake). Someone there must monitor levels of various bacteria. I would expect that information will be available to the public.

Good luck!

[roundisland1]

To all those who care,

Thank you for your responses so far. What I would like to do is to monitor the water in and around places like Silver Sands, Smiths Cove etc. This would allow us to determine if there are any problems local to the large operations located there. If so, it could become the responsibility of the governing property to take action to maintain their ability to oversee such operations. I will approach the State EPA and Fish and Game to find out who is responsible for oversight. Any other help would be appreciated.

[Airwaves]

If I had to venture a guess, and it certainly is a guess. I would say that you will probably find that the problem is with landscape runoff and outboard motors rather than the larger vessels dumping sewerage.

Mass has county extension services that you could contact for advice, I don't know if NH does or not but you might try contacting someone at UNH, maybe they could do their theses on it!

[Dave R]

The water clarity in and around marinas is probably terrible, but it may not be from anything the escapes the boats. I would speculate it is caused by the stagnation of the water in the areas that have been dredged and the constant localized churn of the sediment from the boats passing above. I could be way off too. I am curious about your findings...

[T.H.E. Binz]

The Lake Winnipesaukee Watershed Assoication currently monitors water quality with UNH under a NHDES-funded program. I urge you to join and become a water quality monitor. Their website is:
http://www.winnipesaukee.org

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by roundisland1

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me if there is a group that monitors the impact of large boats located in large groups (ie. condo dock communities).

To be specific, are there any checks and balances in place to protect against overboard discharge of heads?

Buy a boat with a head on board and you will learn first hand - real fast.

You'll also learn about overboard discharge of grey water, as well - real fast.

Speaking of septic, what kind of septic design would one experience if doing a walk-about on Round Island?

[jrc]

If you do any web seaching for Winnipesaukee or Winnisquam water quality data, you will find the quality is always reported as "pristine" and the trend for the last twenty years is towards cleaner water. I can't reconcile this with the divers observations that the water is getting less clean and less clear.

While vigilence is always proper, there are no measureable facts to back up the belief that Winnipesaukee and it's neighbors are degrading.

If you think about it, you can see why. When my parents weekended on their boat, many of their slip neighbors dumped gray water (shower water) into the lake, now that's illegal and new boats in NH pump graywater into holding tanks. Few boaters violate the dumping rules.

There always finger pointing at the McMansions for their lawns. I can't argue that some lawn chemiclas must be getting the lake. But on the good side all these properties are being built with modern septic systems, all sized for full time occupancy. Many of the camps that were replaced had marginal septic systems.

Can anyone show me one report showing a decline in water quality?

[roundisland1]

GWC,

The "spider drop down" kind of reflects your apparent written personality. I understand that the state requires that all boats with heads carry a special inspection sticker indicating that their vessel has been inspected for plumbing that does not enable overboard discharge. If it is found during inspection your are given 48 hours to get the situation rectified or you vessel is removed from the lake. The same is true for grey water discharge systems with respect to plumbing on vessels with sink/kitchen facilities. This is good news that I was unaware until today. I have contacted the NHDES and will be working with one of their grant groups to assist in both the millfoil removal and water sampling programs. As for round island, all facilities are grandfathered outhouses all located no less than 100 ft. from the shore line. The state's requirement is now 50 ft. That is the minimum of ground distance from mean high water required to provide for adequate filtration. The same is true for gray water from camps. Hope to hear more from you when it comes to learning real fast. I have a lot of learning to do at 47.

[roundisland1]

Thanks jrc,

I am looking into the lake temperature trend over the near past to see if it might be because of warmer water temps. There is no data for underwater temps available. I see quite a bit more slime, growth and fuzz on the bottom in recent years. The visibility in sites I have been in for years is noticably lower and may be due to more growth in the water from all contributing factors. Its a good thing we have the six months of winter. They tend to kill nasty organisms shallow growth and settle out suspensed stuff. The constant water into (mountain springs) and out of the lake (rivers) is also good for its clarity. During brisk SW winds, we have seen UFO's both floating and suspended in the water on the West side of the island. That tends to point a straight line towards a particular shoreline facility and hence part of my original question. Thanks for the input.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

roundisland1, have you been to NH DES site yet?
It looks like their New Hampshire Volunteer Lake Assessment Program is right up your alley.
The Fact Sheets for Lake Biology is very interesting.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by roundisland1

GWC,

The "spider drop down" kind of reflects your apparent written personality. I understand that the state requires that all boats with heads carry a special inspection sticker indicating that their vessel has been inspected for plumbing that does not enable overboard discharge. If it is found during inspection your are given 48 hours to get the situation rectified or you vessel is removed from the lake. The same is true for grey water discharge systems with respect to plumbing on vessels with sink/kitchen facilities. This is good news that I was unaware until today. I have contacted the NHDES and will be working with one of their grant groups to assist in both the millfoil removal and water sampling programs. As for round island, all facilities are grandfathered outhouses all located no less than 100 ft. from the shore line. The state's requirement is now 50 ft. That is the minimum of ground distance from mean high water required to provide for adequate filtration. The same is true for gray water from camps. Hope to hear more from you when it comes to learning real fast. I have a lot of learning to do at 47.

Happy to read that you realize one is never too old to learn.

Also, happy to read that Round Island has a great filtration system. Would not want the inhabitants who might acquire their drinking water from the Lake to be drinking their own recycled water.

Stop by Fay's someday and ask Merrill how much the state will fine him for putting a boat in the water, say from the ocean with a head, if it still has unplugged outlets that would allow discharge into the Lake of black or grey waste water.

For someone who is familiar with the Island's grandfathered rules as you, one might think you have spent a few days at the Lake and being water quality conscience, as your original post professes, does seem a bit strange that you were unaware of basic septic rules for all boats, irregardless of size.

But then again, you seemed to zero in on large boats. Another person at the Lake with an agenda, perhaps?

If this were during the sixties, then you would have a viable target for grey water being discharge into the Lake. Times change and sometimes for the better.

Perhaps those SW UFO's are something coming home to roost? Homing pigeons tend to do that, too.

[Silver Duck]

roundisland1

First, every cruiser on the lake eventually gets a visit from a very pleasant and very, very thorough gentleman from the DES. Said gentleman physically goes over the boat "with a fine tooth comb" to ensure that it has been conigured to make overside waste discharge impossible before the sticker is applied.

Second, the type of boat that you're pointing a finger at simply can not be trailered in and launched casually. They must be handled by pros, and are generally slipped in a marina. I strongly doubt that any of the marinas would knowingly tollerate a boat that dumped waste ove the side!

Third, not all marinas have murky water in the cruiser slip area. At Shep Brown's, for instance, the water stays pristine throughout the boating season.

Fourth, if a marina community ever saw "floaters" around somebody's boat, you better believe that they would take steps in a hurry. (Yecch!)

And fifth, why would somebody with a perfectly good marine sanitation system use the lake as a toilet? Not particularly likely!

From the tone of your post, I gather that you don't like cruisers; but, you would do better to point that finger elsewhere when you're looking for the source of those UFOs.

Silver Duck

[snowbird]

I'm inclined to believe the big boats with heads aboard are in compliance with the law. My concern is with those that have no facilities and spend the day out on the lake.

As for clarity, I have been a lake volunteer participant measuring water clarity each July for the past dozen years. Last year, there was a dramatic change, from 27 feet as measured by the Secchi disc in 2004, to only 19 feet last year. Nothing this dramatic had been observed in previous years. And there is a great increase in the bright green algae [inches to feet in diameter] that clings to rocks. There was none of this a few years ago.

I would describe our lake as still pristine up to about five years ago. Not anymore.

[Silver Duck]

Snowbird

That is rather frightening. What is theorized as being the cause of that sudden change? And, please post this year's data once the survey is complete!

Silver Duck

[secondcurve]

What do the divers on the board such as Grant, Winnidiver and Senter Cove Guy have to say about water quality changes from their diving experiences? Thanks!

[66WINN]

I wonder if there is a correlation between the amount of traffic and the visibility in the lake? Could the fact that there are substantially more boats using the lake cause more sediment to be stirred up with less time for it to settle to the bottom? I don't know the biology behind algae growth as it relates to particulates in the water; maybe someone else could answer that.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by snowbird

As for clarity, I have been a lake volunteer participant measuring water clarity each July for the past dozen years. Last year, there was a dramatic change, from 27 feet as measured by the Secchi disc in 2004, to only 19 feet last year. Nothing this dramatic had been observed in previous years. And there is a great increase in the bright green algae [inches to feet in diameter] that clings to rocks. There was none of this a few years ago.

I would describe our lake as still pristine up to about five years ago. Not anymore.

It will be interesting to see if the lake cleans up this year. As I recall, last year there were heavy spring rains and the lake was at unusually high levels. We blamed the lack of clarity on the excessive spring run-off and water lapping at new ground. This year, we had virtually no snow for run-off, it has been a fairly dry spring, and the lake level is very low for this time of year. So - will we see it more clear? I hope so! For those waiting for a report on the pristine nature of Winni - I think you can find those reports among the writers in this forum. My experience on the lake is only a bit over 20 years, but I assure you, the differences from the early 1980s are easy to see. More weeds, less clarity, more algae blooms, fewer fresh-water clams. It is difficult to find a clean sandy bottom any more. 20 years ago, it was easy. The lake is not pristine any more. Take a swim, let your hair dry, and notice how crinkly it is. Or, swim in a t-shirt, let it dry, and notice how it can practically stand on its own because it is so stiff. There is lots of "stuff" in the water. We can discuss the cause, but the results are not up for debate.

[jrc]

I found some online data. If you look the link, scroll down to Lake Winnipesaukee, there are several measured sites. Look for the column labled Sechhi. It give the depth in meters that the Sechhi disk is visible. This a direct measure of water clarity. You will see that from 1979 to 2001 many readings improved. There are a couple of spots that stayed the same, but not one spot is worse than 1979.

http://www.des.state.nh.us/wmb/lakes...mmary_2005.pdf

This show how to read the chart:

http://www.des.state.nh.us/wmb/lakes...mans_guide.pdf

One thing to consider is that water clarity is just one measure of water quality. If we get the zebra mussels many fear, we may have water that is too clear to support other animals.

[John A. Birdsall]

I note on here that people are referring to big boats that have heads on them, (Navy Term)nnI have seen smaller boats with heads in them. I think one that I am thinking of mainly had one under the windshield and I think that boat was only 24', and was not a cabined boat either.. I hope that all would concider the lake as a place to swim, and remind all that people do use the lake for drinking water. Some might say what about the gas and oil that motors put into the lake while running. Recall that gas and oil floats and theirfore for the most part evaporates. Keep our water as best we can and do what is right.

[ApS]

Last year, I couldn't locate my mooring all season until October, when I dragged it to shore from just 15½' of water depth.

From the looks of the water clarity mid-April this year, clarity could grow much worse. Unless the level comes up, the sun will be warming the shallows sooner, encouraging algae blooms. Waterline inlets will become blocked again—was it in 1996?

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

"...not all marinas have murky water in the cruiser slip area. At Shep Brown's, for instance, the water stays pristine throughout the boating season..."

"Pristine" would describe water that was at least drinkable, such as we had up until 1970. In that year—thereabouts—the lake was reclassified as a class "B" lake—down from class "A". Wolfeboro's Brewster Academy began a water-quality study then although I don't know the conclusion of the study or where my contribution/share got spent.

The causes of degradation and algae production are many and, as stated previously, clarity is only one measure of lakewater quality.

Here are a few causes:

Phosphorus
Nitrogen
Aluminum/acid rain
Ridge development
Septic tanks
Loss of tree cover
Loss of ground cover, particularly pine needles

Take just one example—Phosphorus:
Detergent-producers have made their products less "bubbly" for clothes washing by a major reduction of phosphorus content.

Dishwasher detergent manufacturers demanded an exemption from reducing or eliminating phosphorus—and got it.

In 1970, I doubt ¼ of Winnipesaukee cottages had electric dishwashers: Today, all the new homes certainly do, and every time a "tear-down" gets replaced, ditto.

Both phosphorus and nitrogen, carried by design into soil through septic leachate, foster algae growth as they arrive in the lake by gravity and rain.

I'll defer to member shore things as to further discussion though: The topic is huge.

__________________________
We have met the enemy, and it is us.
— Pogo

[roundisland1]

Hey jrc and Rattlesnake Girl,

Happy summer coming! jrc, thanks for the links. The long range clarity data is interesting. As a scientist and engineer, I must say it is flawed in that the clarity needs to be measured on the same day in the month of every year that it is measured. The clarity varies significantly through the summer. In addition, I should clarify a bit. My statement about clarity included the growth suspended in the water as well as that clinging to sturcture including rocks, lake spaghetti, branches, etc underwater. There is significantly more slime (green), floating fuzzz on the bottom and combinations attached to structure. I,m printing and about to read the laymans guide so I might go beyond that level of understanding. Thanks again and lets hope for a great year in 06.

[jrc]

There may be some water quality changes in Winnipesaukee. I'm just trying to keep focused on facts.

When I used "pristine" I meant it in the technical way, as used by University of New Hampshire Center For Freshwater Biology, in these two reports:

http://www.winnipesaukee.org/pdf/Mer...002-Report.doc

http://www.winnipesaukee.org/pdf/Mou...eport-2002.doc

Unfortunately the NH DES does not publish all their data online, they say this:

" Entire reports are generally not sent to individuals, but the data on a particular lake is sent upon request. The data is also put in a computer. A data summary for a particular lake, along with explanatory information, is available upon request.

Summary data for all the lakes surveyed in the program is available from DES's Public Information Office at 271-2975. The document title is Quality of New Hampshire Lakes and Ponds: A Layman's Guide, and the cost is $4.00."

It does publish it's volunteer data for Winnisquam here:

http://www.des.state.nh.us/wmb/VLAP/2004/winnisquam.pdf