Marker SE of Treasure Island

[jazzman]

I came across a black and white marker the other day that was very confusing... It's located about 500 feet SE of Treasure Island. I guess in the past I've always been more in the channel between Treasure Island and Alton and never noticed it.

Since it's SE of Treasure Island and it's a black and white marker, that would say you should pass between it and Treasure Island if I'm travelling East. Usually if there is an offshore hazard, there will be a red and white marker in the area too marking the opposite extent of the hazard. In this case there isn't one.

Looking at the Bizer map, it shows a depth of 5 feet North of the marker and plenty of water South and West. Of course I couldn't see that at the time since that area is in the break area on the laminated map I have on the boat.

What am I missing here? Another boat was kind of looking at that marker too and he decided to to go South of it. I went North of it (between the marker and Treasure Island). Neither of us hit anything. If it's really marking shallow water between it and island, I'd think it would be red/white.

[znh]

That is a bit odd.

Why would you ever go towards the island here ? Especially with it so shallow ?

[jazzman]

Well, it says if headed east or west go north of this marker... I was headed due east. I didn't know if there was a big rock just south of the marker... Seems to me the marker should be red/white

[jrc]

That one confuses a lot of people. The intent seems to be go east of the marker, when on a north/south course. The fact that the marker is the wrong color for a east/west course seems to be overlooked.

That's why I never use the compass and marker rules to navigate, they are just too limited. Given time you could find a dozen more spots like this. Some are documented in the old posts in this forum.

Use a reliable chart (Bizer) and stay out of the shallow spots.

[Phantom]

Want confusing --

Took me a few years to get comfortable "splitting" two Black tops at the North end of Mink / Eastern tip of Bear at FL#30

I completely understand it -- but hard to explain when I have "Newbies" aboard !


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[znh]

Originally Posted by jrc

That one confuses a lot of people. The intent seems to be go east of the marker, when on a north/south course. The fact that the marker is the wrong color for a east/west course seems to be overlooked.

That's why I never use the compass and marker rules to navigate, they are just too limited. Given time you could find a dozen more spots like this. Some are documented in the old posts in this forum.

Use a reliable chart (Bizer) and stay out of the shallow spots.

This pic above is from the Bizer chart app...so if someone was using this they could very well end up on the wrong side of this. I know we go by here often enough but are usually further South in the channel there so never worry about it but it is odd that it's there like that...

[jrc]

Yes that's my point about the color system, I don't use it.

Look at the chart, the shallow area is clearly visible, go on the other side of the marker. The marker could be purple, doesn't matter if you have the chart.

[znh]

I agree with you 100%. But I know others who are all about 'follow the chart'...but here common sense should trump the charts or buoys. My Dad is a 'follow the chart' type of guy but I point out inconsistencies like this to him and he's not sure what to do...

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by jrc

The marker could be purple, doesn't matter if you have the chart.

Read what he said !!

He is following the Chart !!

He is just ignoring the color codes and reading the chart depths & hazards (which are marked)


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[LakeSnake]

The two color system has its limitations. In some cases the MP have to make a judgement call as to what works best for the most common traveled paths.

Just think of the alternative; if it was a red marker then when traveling North/South you would need to stay west of the marker - basically be heading directly for the island.

As already stated - read and understand you map. Mine is right next to the drivers seat and comes out whenever I am not dead sure on what the best navigation is. And I have been on Winni since 1979. No shame in making sure. You need to be dead right or you will possibly be dead in the water.

[SIKSUKR]

There are definately confusing markers on the lake but usually those are because of other close markers which can confuse.When I look at the Bizer as shown here I see no confusion at all.North and east of the black and south and west of the red means go between the 2.

[znh]

I don't see a red marker here...or anything to go between ?

[Striper295]

Originally Posted by znh

That is a bit odd.

Why would you ever go towards the island here ? Especially with it so shallow ?

I'm a newbie and looking a this I would probably go between the two blacks as it seems to be a channel. I'm only guessing from the basic format of the pic.
The water depth seems good between them as well.
BUT again I'm not one to follow on the water at this point

[jrc]

I think we were talking about the lone black marker near the bottom of the island.

The three markers on top are more clear. There is a shallow spot between the uppermost black marker and FL24. Then a clear channel between the FL24 and the black marker nearest the island.

[Island-Ho]

Has anyone noticed the dashed green lines on the chart? They sometime indicate the route that the Mount Washington travels, but they also indicate the recommended route in many other locations. In the case of the black tip south of Treasure you would proceed east of the marker as the line clearly indicates. Remember, you go north and/or east of a black tip, which ever makes more sense. It's pretty clear if you look at the chart.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by znh

I don't see a red marker here...or anything to go between ?

The red marker is FL24 which doesn't look real red compared with the numbers 24.The suggested route is clearly shown with the dashed lines going between FL24 and the black spar.

[Bizer]

Originally Posted by jazzman

I came across a black and white marker the other day that was very confusing... It's located about 500 feet SE of Treasure Island. ...

Originally Posted by LakeSnake

The two color system has its limitations. In some cases the MP have to make a judgement call as to what works best for the most common traveled paths.

Just think of the alternative; if it was a red marker then when traveling North/South you would need to stay west of the marker - basically be heading directly for the island. ...

To expound upon LakeSnake's response: With the NH buoy system, there are two "Zones of Ambiguity" (as Bizer calls them): southeast and northwest. In this case, the hazard is northwest of the buoy so boaters should stay south and/or east of this buoy. The ambiguity is: Should the buoy be red (so that one passes to the south) or black (so that one passes to the east). The other ambiguity zone arises when the safe route is northwest of a buoy. So, if the buoy is southeast of the hazard (as in this case) or northwest of the hazard, look at the chart. In this case, boaters should stay southeast of this buoy.

There are other buoys that lie in a zone of ambiguity: southeast of Ragged Island; southeast of Pig Island; northwest of Ayers Point; southeast of Whortleberry Island; Light #1. A good rule-of-thumb: If there is a lone buoy near land, the hazard usually lies between the buoy and the nearest shore.

Another thing to consider: the area south and east of this buoy is white on Bizer's chart signifying a depth in excess of six feet. On Bizer's chart, it is safe to boat in places where the water color is white. Bizer offers a cash reward to anyone who can find a shallow area (less than six feet deep at normal lake levels) that is not marked in blue. In 19 years, only three people have found such errors. All three boaters were rewarded with $250 for making Bizer's chart more accurate.

And one last item on this particular buoy: It is primarily for the M/S Mount Washington. Most of the area between this buoy and Treasure Island is deep enough for most boats, but not deep enough for the M/S Mount Washington.

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

The red marker is FL24 which doesn't look real red compared with the numbers 24.The suggested route is clearly shown with the dashed lines going between FL24 and the black spar.

As per the Nautical Chart Manual, lighted buoys are a magenta symbol regardless of the light's color. In this case, the light's color is white. The number "24" is red because the companion spar buoy is red.