Bimini & windsheild for bad weather?

[RyanDe]

We're still leaning towards an island place but the one thing that keeps hanging us up is trying to haul three little kids out there if the weather isn't perfect. Even a little sprinkle can get annoying if it's hitting you for 15 minutes in the face so ideally we'd like some kind of full cover to protect us and our stuff if it's raining or cold outside. Are certain boats better for this use case? Any thoughts/ideas on how to accomplish this?

[Slickcraft]

Our previous island boat, the old Slickcraft SS235, had full canvas.

The new island boat is a 22' Eastern hardtop that the Canvas Guys in Gilford closed in. Talking to a canvas shop 1st may be a good idea.

[RyanDe]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

Our previous island boat, the old Slickcraft SS235, had full canvas.

The new island boat is a 22' Eastern hardtop that the Canvas Guys in Gilford closed in. Talking to a canvas shop 1st may be a good idea.

I like. :-) That's what we're thinking, so a custom canvas shop could do something like this to any boat basically?

Do you find you need it going to/from the island?

[Slickcraft]

The Slickcraft canvas was 4 parts. In good but cold weather the aft curtain was taken off, good but warm days the side curtains came off as well. We left the top curtain on all the time however the frame could be folded back.

We leave the Eastern side curtains on then open the aft drop curtains and front window on warm days.

Again, a canvas shop could tell you what can be done with various type boats. I don't think that a bow rider is a good candidate.

[Descant]

The Eastern is great. I prefer a closed bow as opposed to a bow rider. Fixed windshield that you sit behind, as opposed to looking over, gives a lot of protection. Kids think is fun to play/ride in a cuddy (or nap at anchor) and it is a secure place to leave gear. For these reasons I like a boat that you sit in, instead of on top, like a pontoon. I'm not comfortable in rough conditions when there is little or no freeboard, and we go out in all conditions, night and day. r

[ursa minor]

Ryan,

I'm a nearly lifelong islander, grew up doing it with my parents and we're lucky enough have our own place now. Our "big" boat is set up very in a very similar manner to Slickcraft's previous boat. (Slickcraft, very envious of that new Eastern BTW, very nice looking boat.) Here's some quick insight on the transportation questions:

1) Unlike those on the mainland, you have to use the boat to get to your place. There will be times when you need to cross the lake when others can stay at home. (Unless you can plan your trips only in good weather.) With time, you'll get to be able to pick an islander's boat out of the crowd at the docks; we typically have canvas up most all of the time and we favor older boats that have closed in bows as opposed to bow riders.

2) Islanders typically have an "all weather" boat that can deal with reasonable weather conditions (canvas / hard top) and often a second and sometimes smaller boat for quick trips, water sports and so on. (We have a 22 foot cuddy that's a true deep V hull with full canvas and a 17 foot Boston Whaler)

3) Everything that goes to / from the island will need to be transported by boat. We islanders also tend to favor open cockpit space and sheltered seating for this reason. Pontoon boats have come a long way from a few years ago and work very well for hauling stuff, I've seen several that have been modified to have full canvas. We had an 18" pontoon when we were building our place and it was handy for that. There are also a number of contractors around the lake that have commercial barges for larger items.

4) When looking at property, be aware of how it may be affected by varying lake levels, how wind and storms may affect your dock, etc. In the fall, it's very common to have strong west to northwest winds, also the water level tends to drop so look for rocks that could cause problems at lower lake levels. If you have to cross more open parts of the lake its's possible to see 3+ foot chop / whitecaps depending on the location and strength of the wind. If the neighbors have large stone breakwater structures protecting their docks, this is an indication that you'll be seeing some large waves from time to time.

If any of the above is starting to sound like work, you may want to consider looking on the mainland first. I enjoy the island lifestyle and quite honestly would not have been able to afford anything on the mainland that comes close to what we've been able to do on the island. As with many things in life, it comes down to choices and some compromises. Good luck with your search!

[8gv]

I can't imagine a better excuse to own two boats, maybe three!

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by 8gv

I can't imagine a better excuse to own two boats, maybe three!

I am firm believer 3 boats is the number. A midlife crisis boat, a little putting around/fishing boat, and a pontoon boat!

[ursa minor]

Originally Posted by 8gv

I can't imagine a better excuse to own two boats, maybe three!

Well, one of the neighbors did come up with an idea to print up tee shirts that say "We're a drinking island with boating problem" I forgot to add the sailboat, the kid's row boat and 3 kayaks.... I think I may have a problem! Love the "Whala", gets me in touch with my inner 17 year old with every ride!

[ursa minor]

A few additional things I forgot from the list I made above:

An island boat will have a windshield wiper (or ideally wipers on both the port and starboard windows). Sounds silly until you try to look through glass in a driving rainstorm without them.

Your nighttime navigation skills will build quickly from necessity.

You'll become an amateur weatherman, always aware of wind direction and the likelihood of pop up thunderstorms. This has gotten a lot easier with the advent of smart phones and weather apps.

Your boat will have a tool box and maybe some key spare parts on board.

[RyanDe]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

A few additional things I forgot from the list I made above:

An island boat will have a windshield wiper (or ideally wipers on both the port and starboard windows). Sounds silly until you try to look through glass in a driving rainstorm without them.

Your nighttime navigation skills will build quickly from necessity.

You'll become an amateur weatherman, always aware of wind direction and the likelihood of pop up thunderstorms. This has gotten a lot easier with the advent of smart phones and weather apps.

Your boat will have a tool box and maybe some key spare parts on board.

What do you recommend for a transport boat (wipers, cover, etc)? We were thinking a littler boat (cheaper to slip) that has cover and can get us to/from the island and a bigger pontoon for once we're there.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

The Slickcraft canvas was 4 parts. In good but cold weather the aft curtain was taken off, good but warm days the side curtains came off as well. We left the top curtain on all the time however the frame could be folded back.

We leave the Eastern side curtains on then open the aft drop curtains and front window on warm days.

Again, a canvas shop could tell you what can be done with various type boats. I don't think that a bow rider is a good candidate.

I would disagree. I tried to post a picture of my 25 ft Mariah Bowrider with full canvas created by Shipshape Marine in Gilford but couldn't . Bow area has a removable canvas cover. With the bimini open, there is an isinglass windshield that zips to the bimini and snaps to the top of the boat windshield. It has an opening that coincides with the windshield walk through, and secures with zippers and snaps , and can be left open, rolled up and secured with snaps. There are port and starboard side curtains and a back cover that zips to the bimini, and snaps to the boat. I can stand upright at the helm and anywhere under the bimini. it is extremely comfortable and keeps occupants warm and dry.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

[ursa minor]

It's possible to make a smaller boat work, it's going to depend on where you'd be keeping your boat and what part of the lake you will need to cross to get to your island destination. We have a relatively short hop from Harilla on Long Island, I could make do with with a lot smaller boat most days. However try that with guests, their stuff, a couple of dogs and throw a little rain and wind in... It happens.

What would concern me most if I were you is the "3 small children" you mentioned. I had two of the above and aside from the obvious safety responsibilities, you'll need room for them to sit and to stow the gear they bring. You'll want them happy and safe for both your and maybe more so, your wife's peace of mind. We up sized to the current 22 footer when our older 19 footer had my wife concerned a couple of times in bad weather and at night. (Kids were 5 & 3 at the time). This boat will and has taken pretty much anything Winnipesaukee can throw at you, it's one less thing to worry about on a Friday night.

It is possible to make a bow rider work with canvas, most come with bow covers, I just have a thing about closed bows. The steep chop on this lake can be surprising, I've had water over the bow a couple of times and prefer to have that fiberglass deck in front of me. Everything is a compromise, your personal preference may vary from what my priorities are.

As an aside, just curious as to how much boating experience you've had? It's not impossible to start with little to none and make an island house work (God bless my parents!) but it's a lot easier if you have some boat handling experience under your belt.

[RyanDe]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

It's possible to make a smaller boat work, it's going to depend on where you'd be keeping your boat and what part of the lake you will need to cross to get to your island destination. We have a relatively short hop from Harilla on Long Island, I could make do with with a lot smaller boat most days. However try that with guests, their stuff, a couple of dogs and throw a little rain and wind in... It happens.

What would concern me most if I were you is the "3 small children" you mentioned. I had two of the above and aside from the obvious safety responsibilities, you'll need room for them to sit and to stow the gear they bring. You'll want them happy and safe for both your and maybe more so, your wife's peace of mind. We up sized to the current 22 footer when our older 19 footer had my wife concerned a couple of times in bad weather and at night. (Kids were 5 & 3 at the time). This boat will and has taken pretty much anything Winnipesaukee can throw at you, it's one less thing to worry about on a Friday night.

It is possible to make a bow rider work with canvas, most come with bow covers, I just have a thing about closed bows. The steep chop on this lake can be surprising, I've had water over the bow a couple of times and prefer to have that fiberglass deck in front of me. Everything is a compromise, your personal preference may vary from what my priorities are.

As an aside, just curious as to how much boating experience you've had? It's not impossible to start with little to none and make an island house work (God bless my parents!) but it's a lot easier if you have some boat handling experience under your belt.

Wow, does three feet make that much of a difference or is it the type of boat too? We've looked at 22', they seem pretty big when you're used to 16-18' boats.

My personally experience driving on a large lake is pretty limited but my wife and I both grew up on small boats(16') on smaller lakes so we're comfortable with boats and the water in general. For the first year we'd probably only go when it's pretty calm and light out and work up to storms and nighttime.

How many days a year would you consider great/okay/bad when it comes to making the journey over? We're also looking at shorty trips so from West Alton to Rattlesnake/sleeper, Shep Browns' to Bear, etc.

[Slickcraft]

IMHO main island boat 22' or 23' minimum for all around use. Secondary boat in the 15'+ range is fine for nice days and grocery run.

In addition to handling rough conditions, there is the matter of transporting lots of stuff. People. Luggage. Lumber. Groceries. Beer. Hot water heater. Furniture. Beds. Paint. Refrigerator. Ladders. Kayaks. Mattresses. Stove. Tools. More beer. And so on.

Think of your main island boat as a 4WD pick up truck.

[ishoot308]

My requirements for an island boat would be...

#1. Must have an outboard for ice out and ice in island access without worrying about freeze ups. I was at my camp this year on March 13th! I would have never done that with an I.O.

#2. Boat must have self bailing hull. Don't like relying on batteries and bilge pumps. Seen too many boats floating after an extended leave...

#3. 22' minimum length.

#4. Must have a hard top....after owning one I wouldn't be without it.

#5. Wipers are a must, both sides for safety.

#6. Must have dual batteries with selector switch so your never stranded with one dead battery.

#7. Dependable and quality GPS for those foggy mornings and to assist in night time navigation. Yes a compass too!!

#8. Permanent mounted spotlight with remote control for night time docking and unloading.

#9. Dash lights must have dimming option.

The above is what works for me, others may / will have varying opinions.

Dan

[ursa minor]

First, good to hear both you and your wife have experience running boats and are comfortable with the whole concept, that's a great start. Second, I'm pretty sure that I've had everything on Slickcraft's list above in my boat at one point or another.

On the 3 foot question, there's more to that than just length. Our 19 was an older outboard boat with an almost flat bottom at the transom. It would plane easily with modest power but you had to slow down a lot when it got rough, going through boat wakes and so on. The 22 has a true deep V hull design (23 degree "deadrise" angle at the transom" that helps a lot on a choppy day. Add a V8 engine low in the hull along with a 70 gallon gas tank and it's a completely different boat.

On the subject of deadrise, a lot of newer boats have shallower V angles often referred to as a modified V hull. The relatively flatter bottom helps with getting the boat on plane and they're often faster than a similar deep V boat with the same power. I think this has a lot to do with the popularity of 25, 27 foot and larger boats for use on the lake; that must size / weight range needed to get a good ride from the typical modified V hull. Bear in mind when I was a kid up here in the 70's a 19 foot boat was considered "big".

If you can find a place on Sleepers or the sheltered sides of Rattlesnake or Bear, you can probably get away with an 18 foot bow rider for a while. There's no way I'd personally want to try that out on the Broads side of Rattlesnake though, maybe some of those members that have experience will chime in on that.

If you're nearby, I think you'll understand a little more in a few weeks when we get some strong sustained WNW winds and you can get a look out to the Broads. Things can get pretty "sporty" considering this is an inland lake...

Good luck, you're asking all the right questions!

[RyanDe]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

If you're nearby, I think you'll understand a little more in a few weeks when we get some strong sustained WNW winds and you can get a look out to the Broads. Things can get pretty "sporty" considering this is an inland lake...

Good luck, you're asking all the right questions!

We're planning on renting another boat mid Sep to tour around more. Will this give us a better idea of the true lake? We went this last Thursday and it didn't seem bad at all but I think it was a pretty calm day.


We'll probably end up with a small/cheap boat and upgrade in a year or two once we understand what we want/need. Stability and comfort in cold/wet weather is high on the list since we'll have to go out no matter what to get to an island place. So self bailing hull, deep V hull, windshield wipers...

Can a hard top be put on any boat?

[ursa minor]

Trying the lake on different days and seasons is a good idea. Summer weekend boat traffic can stir things up depending on location, definitely different than mid week.

Bear in mind that every boat is a compromise, it's going to be hard to find everything that myself and others have listed above the first time out and especially in a used boat. Hard tops are not common on smaller boats either and can limit your mainland options ( I don't think you can rack / valet a boat with a hard top, would need a wet slip.) it may be possible to retrofit a hard top, there's plenty of ocean fishing boats that have them but it's likely a custom job and not inexpensive. I'd want to be sure I really liked a particular boat before going in that direction.

[codeman671]

Ahh, the quest for the perfect island boat.

I looked for 10 years and went through 20+ boats. My favorites were always 24' tritoons with big power and full enclosures. You could hang out on them, transport materials and make quick trips back and forth. Every change I made had its advantages and disadvantages.

One season I had a 25' tracker pontoon with a hard top as my work boat. The roof was great, but it was a twin tube and didn't have full enclosure. The motor was a 115 but it was a dog. There is something to be said about a boat you don't care about. I could throw whatever on it, not cover it, and never worried. Didn't even care when my leonberger ate one of the seats!

Another favorite was a whaler dauntless 200 with a 200 verado.
It ran 50+, had decent deck space and didn't have to be covered. A simple 3 sides enclosure could have been added had I needed it.
Awesome boat.

My suggestion is pick out the place first, we can help you find the right setup to match.

[uschisk]

We started with 3 younger kids - 4,6,8 when we bought the camp. We started with a 20 ft bowrider with canvas, then upgraded to our 25 ft Monterey bowrider with a camper top canvas. It is much easier - larger boat, can stand up under the camper top and move around. If the weather is bad, we have the whole family, 2 large dogs, friends, all our stuff (in the head we don't use other than as a storage closet) in the boat without issue.
You will need a boat that is ok in the rain, because you will end up boating in the rain at some point.
Also consider your boat ride. We had no idea what we were doing when we bought, and we lucked out. We boat from Shep Brown's to Mark Island, so we have some protection from Bear Island the entire way, which really helps.
We use our boat for fun as well, with the kids and friends, tubing, water skiing, etc so we really wanted a bow rider.

[RyanDe]

Thanks! We're leaning towards a used <$15k 21-22ft boat to get us started. We'll use it for a year and see how well it works and probably upgrade/change things up after that. I guess it does matter where we end up, if it's on the east of Bear vs the east of cow that could make a difference as far as what we need to get there.

Are pontoons (three pontoons) pretty stable in rough waters? That's an option since they're pretty large even if we can can't fully enclose them if we could cover the back and put everyone/everything in there it might give us more room.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by RyanDe

Are pontoons (three pontoons) pretty stable in rough waters? That's an option since they're pretty large even if we can can't fully enclose them if we could cover the back and put everyone/everything in there it might give us more room.

Yes they are very stable and a great choice for your first island boat based on your budget! You can fully enclose them very easily as well and I highly recommend it. Because of their deck size, they can carry a lot of material such as furniture, groceries and whatever is needed at your island home. A very handy boat to have and I guarantee when you get another boat you will still keep the pontoon because of how handy it has become!

Good luck!

Dan