Give-way by steering to starboard early folks

Dave R · 07-11-2011, 06:01 PM

I was stand-on twice in normal crossing situations yesterday. Both times the give way vessel slowed enough to come off-plane at about 300 feet. I maintained course and speed as required and there was wide open water behind me.

Both situations were orderly and no laws were broken, however, there's a better way. If the other vessels had simply altered course 10 degrees to starboard, 30 seconds earlier, they could have maintained speed and would have passed well behind me. There was no good reason not to do that, especially with gas as expensive as it is.

If you ever find yourself in a crossing situation with any possibility of a collision course and you are operating the give-way vessel, make a course adjustment to starboard early (if it's safe to do so) and obviously (so that the other boat operator knows you are giving way) and it'll make it easier for everyone.

VtSteve · 07-11-2011, 07:34 PM

Great advice Dave!

I've had people ask me why I don't always drive in a straight line (like most boaters seem to do today). I explained exactly what you just did to them, likening it to Stop signs in the middle of a highway.

However, one certain brilliant 9 year old asked this question.

"Dad, then why did all of those other boats cut inside you in a straight line?"

I muttered because they're $%^^%@$#@....... Just not paying attention

Like many rules of the road, the details and fine tuning come into play in heavier traffic.

NH_boater · 07-11-2011, 08:54 PM

I agree completely. I do this and to the novice, turning and picking lines early is not a concept everyone gets naturally. I often see boats navigating straight lines where turning early would:

- Avoid intersections that force reactive decisions (like coming off plane)
- Avoid pushing traffic into more-narrow passages
- Allow folks to cross wakes near perpendicular
- Keep a natural flow to crossing traffic

I can identify an experienced and thoughtful boater from a half-a-bay away by the way they telegraph their intentions in the way they pick their lines and respond to mine.

chipj29 · 07-12-2011, 05:21 AM

Being on a PWC most of the time, I go starboard well in advance of any crossing situations. That way, since my vessel is smaller and harder to see, I am mitigating the risk and aleviating the other captains fear that I might cross in front of them.

All that, and it just seems easier.

upthesaukee · 07-12-2011, 06:14 AM

As an air traffic controller in my prior life, in a radar environment, if you had a plane crossing in front of another plane at the same altitude, you would aim the "give way" plane at the "stand on" plan early on, and keep the "give way" plane on that heading. With the other plane continuing on its course, the "give way" plane would pass well behind the other, keeping the separation required.

As Dave R suggests, the give way boat can apply this to the lake situation. Just beware that other traffic or even the stand on boat can mess up your best laid plans

.

MJM · 07-12-2011, 07:38 AM

I must say, I have had no issues with the give-way vessel not giving way this year. Had one that waited a little too long (I have a feeling they weren't looking where they were going), but did give way in plenty of time/space.

Hopefully the compliance will continue!

Misty Blue · 07-12-2011, 07:57 AM

Turning to Starboard when meeting, crossing or passing is not a firm law but a good protocol and idea.

The idea is this. Say we are meeting, that is you and I are heading head on.

The proper method is for both boats to give one short blast on the horn and turn to starboard. As we pass eachother my view of the "danger zone" that is from dead ahead to 112 deg. to starboard is not blocked by your boat and vice versa. So you and I can see any traffic that would make us the give way vessel.

That is not the reason that most small boat helms are on the starboard side, but it helps.

Misty Blue

Dave R · 07-12-2011, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NH_boater

I can identify an experienced and thoughtful boater from a half-a-bay away by the way they telegraph their intentions in the way they pick their lines and respond to mine.

That was me!

4Fun · 07-12-2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

That was me!

I wish they would teach this in the boating classes. It's so easy but not a lot of peopole communicate well when driving or boating....

NH_boater · 07-12-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

That was me!

And it was greatly appreciated!!!

Slickcraft · 07-12-2011, 11:06 AM

We make the trip out to Welch on a regular basis, normally on an easy plane at about 25 mph. About 60% of the time when I am stand-on the other boat keeps their plan secret for a while and then goes for WOT so as to race by in front.

Maybe 10 % come off plane to let me pass but often at the last moment apparently waiting to see if I give way first.

Thankfully about 30% do steer to starboard early on and pass astern. As Dave has noted that makes it easy on both boats.

LIforrelaxin · 07-12-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

I was stand-on twice in normal crossing situations yesterday. Both times the give way vessel slowed enough to come off-plane at about 300 feet. I maintained course and speed as required and there was wide open water behind me.

Both situations were orderly and no laws were broken, however, there's a better way. If the other vessels had simply altered course 10 degrees to starboard, 30 seconds earlier, they could have maintained speed and would have passed well behind me. There was no good reason not to do that, especially with gas as expensive as it is.

If you ever find yourself in a crossing situation with any possibility of a collision course and you are operating the give-way vessel, make a course adjustment to starboard early (if it's safe to do so) and obviously (so that the other boat operator knows you are giving way) and it'll make it easier for everyone.

This is excellent protocol, however most boaters these days, don't pay good enough attention to everything that is happening around them. Much less know what starboard is.... The reason at times simple protocal and sound tactics are absent on the lake, is that people don't take the time to learn the rules of the road... much less understand that by changing their heading a little bit, will not take them that far off course, and that they can bring their vessel very quickly back to the original vector they where heading on.

BernerGuy · 07-12-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

This is excellent protocol, however most boaters these days, don't pay good enough attention to everything that is happening around them. Much less know what starboard is.... The reason at times simple protocal and sound tactics are absent on the lake, is that people don't take the time to learn the rules of the road... much less understand that by changing their heading a little bit, will not take them that far off course, and that they can bring their vessel very quickly back to the original vector they where heading on.

Isn't learning "the rules of the road" the law in NH?

Dave R · 07-12-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BernerGuy

Isn't learning "the rules of the road" the law in NH?

Yeah it is and I just want to be clear about this fact: In both situations, the other boat operators followed the rules. My point is that there is often more than one way to give-way. If you don't have to come off-plane, you don't have to waste gas going back on-plane.

sa meredith · 07-12-2011, 02:46 PM

[QUOTE=Dave R;162712]I was stand-on twice in normal crossing situations yesterday. Both times the give way vessel slowed enough to come off-plane at about 300 feet. I maintained course and speed as required and there was wide open water behind me.

Both situations were orderly and no laws were broken, however, there's a better way. If the other vessels had simply altered course 10 degrees to starboard, 30 seconds earlier, they could have maintained speed and would have passed well behind me. There was no good reason not to do that, especially with gas as expensive as it is.

If you ever find yourself in a crossing situation with any possibility of a collision course and you are operating the give-way vessel, make a course adjustment to starboard early (if it's safe to do so) and obviously (so that the other boat operator knows you are giving way) and it'll make it easier for everyone.

When I find myself in this situation, and the give way vessel does not change course, I assume he does not know proper procedure, and sometimes dramatically alter my course, leaving no doubt that the other boat is free to do as he wishes. Just too many captains that have no idea. And I'm not interested in confrontation while at the wheel.

SAMIAM · 07-12-2011, 06:35 PM

It's really not rocket science.....if a boat is to your starboard.....think "on your right has the right of way"...........at night he would be seeing a green light.....green is go on the highway and the lake unless you are dealing with a sail, barge, fish or paddle boat. I teach my kids .....think of port wine, port is red and that is the left side of the boat. If you are seeing a red light, you are the stand on boat.
With that said, none of that means anything if you are in a dangerous crossing situation and you should always stand down if you're not sure of a boat that is approaching. Not a big deal as long as everyone is having fun and staying safe.

Happy Gourmand · 07-12-2011, 08:28 PM

General rule is that I never ever have the right of way. I will always give way. Gas is expensive? Really? Where are you going on the lake? More than likely just drilling holes in the water. So what if you get to your destination 2 or 3 minutes later, that just means you get to spend more time on the boat. I know this may not apply to every situation, but is sure applies to most.

hazelnut · 07-12-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

It's really not rocket science.....if a boat is to your starboard.....think "on your right has the right of way"...........at night he would be seeing a green light.....green is go on the highway and the lake unless you are dealing with a sail, barge, fish or paddle boat. I teach my kids .....think of port wine, port is red and that is the left side of the boat. If you are seeing a red light, you are the stand on boat.
With that said, none of that means anything if you are in a dangerous crossing situation and you should always stand down if you're not sure of a boat that is approaching. Not a big deal as long as everyone is having fun and staying safe.

You had me scratching my head there SAMIAM. Recheck what you wrote there. The red light indicates that you are the GIVE WAY vessel. Think seeing red as a stop light. If you see the port side of a vessel as in the "Red" side you are approaching the vessel from, their left/port side. You must give way to that vessel. In contrast if you are approaching a vessel from the right/starboard side you get the "green light" which equals go or stand on.

http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/handbook/lights.htm
http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/handbook/nav.htm
http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/handbook/night.htm

Lake Fan · 07-13-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

About 60% of the time when I am stand-on the other boat keeps their plan secret for a while and then goes for WOT so as to race by in front.

This maneuver is so common I think they must be teaching it in boating classes! Many boaters seem to be afraid to turn their steering wheels a bit and alter course, or they just enjoy playing chicken. As others have posted, I have no problem turning wide and giving the boneheads a lot of clearance.

John A. Birdsall · 07-13-2011, 09:24 AM

when I was first boating I used to get confused as to which is port and which is starboard. My dad said how many letters are in Port, hmmm same number as in left. Right has more letters so that is starboard. Now that I am just a bit older I can see where wine is left, but alas there is no wine left cause I drank it once I got on board. so that means there is no more Port Wine!

SAMIAM · 07-13-2011, 09:37 AM

Your right,Hazelnut..thanks......I read it again and realized I had it backwards

hazelnut · 07-13-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Your right,Hazelnut..thanks......I read it again and realized I had it backwards

No problem. Funny thing is the first part of your post was spot on so I was like huh?

LIforrelaxin · 07-13-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BernerGuy

Isn't learning "the rules of the road" the law in NH?

Learning the rules of the roads in regards to a one time test is certainly the law in New Hampshire. However that is far from learning the rules of the road and having them ingrained in your thought process enough to have them be a natural reaction, to the environment around you....

Nauset · 07-14-2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

General rule is that I never ever have the right of way. I will always give way. Gas is expensive? Really? Where are you going on the lake? More than likely just drilling holes in the water. So what if you get to your destination 2 or 3 minutes later, that just means you get to spend more time on the boat. I know this may not apply to every situation, but is sure applies to most.

Just a word of caution. In the eyes of the law the stand-on vessel is obligated to maintain speed and direction unless the give-way vessel does not take action. It's not a matter of ego, fuel, or being in a hurry. This is most likely to avoid confusion. Imagine two boats meeting on the water at night and both are trying to turn behind the other. In a collision the operator of the stand-on vessel could be liable as well.
Below is the definition from the NH boating course:

Encountering Other Vessels
There are rules that every operator must follow when encountering other vessels.

Two terms help explain these rules:

Give-way vessel: The vessel that is required to take early and substantial action to keep well away from other vessels by stopping, slowing down, or changing course. Avoid crossing in front of other vessels. Any change of course and/or speed should be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel. (A series of small changes should be avoided.)

Stand-on vessel: The vessel that must maintain its course and speed unless it becomes apparent that the give-way vessel is not taking appropriate action. If you must take action, do not turn toward the give-way vessel or cross in front of it.

jrc · 07-14-2011, 12:34 PM

Unfortunately, the boating course uses terminology from the USCG rule and not from the NH laws:

270-D:2 General Rules for Vessels Operating on Water. –
...
III. When vessels are crossing courses or approaching each other in an oblique direction which may involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on its starboard side shall keep out of the way of the other, allowing the latter vessel to keep its course and speed.
...

The vessel on the starboard side is allowed to keep course and speed, not required to do so. As a matter of fact, if you don't understand the other guys intention you need to slow down to steerage speed:

... V. If, when vessels are approaching each other, either vessel fails to understand the course or intention of the other from any cause, such vessel or vessels shall immediately slow to a speed barely sufficient for steerage until the vessels have safely passed each other. If it appears the danger of collision is imminent both vessels shall stop or reverse and not proceed until such danger has been averted...

I always assume I'm going to have to yield, so I usually aim for the stern of the crossing boat early, even if I don't have to.

07-11-2011, 06:01 PM	#1
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,974 Thanks: 246 Thanked 736 Times in 438 Posts	Give-way by steering to starboard early folks I was stand-on twice in normal crossing situations yesterday. Both times the give way vessel slowed enough to come off-plane at about 300 feet. I maintained course and speed as required and there was wide open water behind me. Both situations were orderly and no laws were broken, however, there's a better way. If the other vessels had simply altered course 10 degrees to starboard, 30 seconds earlier, they could have maintained speed and would have passed well behind me. There was no good reason not to do that, especially with gas as expensive as it is. If you ever find yourself in a crossing situation with any possibility of a collision course and you are operating the give-way vessel, make a course adjustment to starboard early (if it's safe to do so) and obviously (so that the other boat operator knows you are giving way) and it'll make it easier for everyone.

07-12-2011, 05:21 AM	#4
chipj29 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bow Posts: 1,874 Thanks: 521 Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts	Being on a PWC most of the time, I go starboard well in advance of any crossing situations. That way, since my vessel is smaller and harder to see, I am mitigating the risk and aleviating the other captains fear that I might cross in front of them. All that, and it just seems easier. __________________ Getting ready for winter!

07-12-2011, 06:14 AM	#5
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,547 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,397 Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts	Air traffic controller trick As an air traffic controller in my prior life, in a radar environment, if you had a plane crossing in front of another plane at the same altitude, you would aim the "give way" plane at the "stand on" plan early on, and keep the "give way" plane on that heading. With the other plane continuing on its course, the "give way" plane would pass well behind the other, keeping the separation required. As Dave R suggests, the give way boat can apply this to the lake situation. Just beware that other traffic or even the stand on boat can mess up your best laid plans . __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

07-12-2011, 07:57 AM	#7
Misty Blue Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 658 Thanks: 121 Thanked 283 Times in 98 Posts	Why turn to Starboard? Turning to Starboard when meeting, crossing or passing is not a firm law but a good protocol and idea. The idea is this. Say we are meeting, that is you and I are heading head on. The proper method is for both boats to give one short blast on the horn and turn to starboard. As we pass eachother my view of the "danger zone" that is from dead ahead to 112 deg. to starboard is not blocked by your boat and vice versa. So you and I can see any traffic that would make us the give way vessel. That is not the reason that most small boat helms are on the starboard side, but it helps. Misty Blue

07-12-2011, 02:46 PM	#15
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	Give way [QUOTE=Dave R;162712]I was stand-on twice in normal crossing situations yesterday. Both times the give way vessel slowed enough to come off-plane at about 300 feet. I maintained course and speed as required and there was wide open water behind me. Both situations were orderly and no laws were broken, however, there's a better way. If the other vessels had simply altered course 10 degrees to starboard, 30 seconds earlier, they could have maintained speed and would have passed well behind me. There was no good reason not to do that, especially with gas as expensive as it is. If you ever find yourself in a crossing situation with any possibility of a collision course and you are operating the give-way vessel, make a course adjustment to starboard early (if it's safe to do so) and obviously (so that the other boat operator knows you are giving way) and it'll make it easier for everyone. When I find myself in this situation, and the give way vessel does not change course, I assume he does not know proper procedure, and sometimes dramatically alter my course, leaving no doubt that the other boat is free to do as he wishes. Just too many captains that have no idea. And I'm not interested in confrontation while at the wheel.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave R For This Useful Post:
Lakegeezer (07-12-2011), LIforrelaxin (07-12-2011)

07-11-2011, 07:34 PM	#2
VtSteve Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,320 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 230 Thanked 361 Times in 169 Posts	Great advice Dave! I've had people ask me why I don't always drive in a straight line (like most boaters seem to do today). I explained exactly what you just did to them, likening it to Stop signs in the middle of a highway. However, one certain brilliant 9 year old asked this question. "Dad, then why did all of those other boats cut inside you in a straight line?" I muttered because they're $%^^%@$#@....... Just not paying attention Like many rules of the road, the details and fine tuning come into play in heavier traffic.

07-11-2011, 08:54 PM	#3
NH_boater Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 298 Thanks: 14 Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts	I agree completely. I do this and to the novice, turning and picking lines early is not a concept everyone gets naturally. I often see boats navigating straight lines where turning early would: - Avoid intersections that force reactive decisions (like coming off plane) - Avoid pushing traffic into more-narrow passages - Allow folks to cross wakes near perpendicular - Keep a natural flow to crossing traffic I can identify an experienced and thoughtful boater from a half-a-bay away by the way they telegraph their intentions in the way they pick their lines and respond to mine.

07-12-2011, 07:38 AM	#6
MJM Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 262 Thanks: 0 Thanked 23 Times in 11 Posts	I must say, I have had no issues with the give-way vessel not giving way this year. Had one that waited a little too long (I have a feeling they weren't looking where they were going), but did give way in plenty of time/space. Hopefully the compliance will continue!

07-12-2011, 11:06 AM	#11
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and West Alton Posts: 3,216 Thanks: 1,172 Thanked 2,000 Times in 914 Posts	We make the trip out to Welch on a regular basis, normally on an easy plane at about 25 mph. About 60% of the time when I am stand-on the other boat keeps their plan secret for a while and then goes for WOT so as to race by in front. Maybe 10 % come off plane to let me pass but often at the last moment apparently waiting to see if I give way first. Thankfully about 30% do steer to starboard early on and pass astern. As Dave has noted that makes it easy on both boats.

The Following User Says Thank You to Slickcraft For This Useful Post:
Seeker (07-14-2011)

07-12-2011, 06:35 PM	#16
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,836 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	It's really not rocket science.....if a boat is to your starboard.....think "on your right has the right of way"...........at night he would be seeing a green light.....green is go on the highway and the lake unless you are dealing with a sail, barge, fish or paddle boat. I teach my kids .....think of port wine, port is red and that is the left side of the boat. If you are seeing a red light, you are the stand on boat. With that said, none of that means anything if you are in a dangerous crossing situation and you should always stand down if you're not sure of a boat that is approaching. Not a big deal as long as everyone is having fun and staying safe.

07-12-2011, 08:28 PM	#17
Happy Gourmand Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ruskin FL Posts: 1,025 Thanks: 187 Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts	Right of Way General rule is that I never ever have the right of way. I will always give way. Gas is expensive? Really? Where are you going on the lake? More than likely just drilling holes in the water. So what if you get to your destination 2 or 3 minutes later, that just means you get to spend more time on the boat. I know this may not apply to every situation, but is sure applies to most.

07-13-2011, 09:24 AM	#20
John A. Birdsall Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norwich, CT Posts: 599 Thanks: 27 Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts	port/starboard when I was first boating I used to get confused as to which is port and which is starboard. My dad said how many letters are in Port, hmmm same number as in left. Right has more letters so that is starboard. Now that I am just a bit older I can see where wine is left, but alas there is no wine left cause I drank it once I got on board. so that means there is no more Port Wine!

07-13-2011, 09:37 AM	#21
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,836 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	Your right,Hazelnut..thanks......I read it again and realized I had it backwards

07-14-2011, 12:34 PM	#25
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Unfortunately, the boating course uses terminology from the USCG rule and not from the NH laws: 270-D:2 General Rules for Vessels Operating on Water. – ... III. When vessels are crossing courses or approaching each other in an oblique direction which may involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on its starboard side shall keep out of the way of the other, allowing the latter vessel to keep its course and speed. ... The vessel on the starboard side is allowed to keep course and speed, not required to do so. As a matter of fact, if you don't understand the other guys intention you need to slow down to steerage speed: ... V. If, when vessels are approaching each other, either vessel fails to understand the course or intention of the other from any cause, such vessel or vessels shall immediately slow to a speed barely sufficient for steerage until the vessels have safely passed each other. If it appears the danger of collision is imminent both vessels shall stop or reverse and not proceed until such danger has been averted... I always assume I'm going to have to yield, so I usually aim for the stern of the crossing boat early, even if I don't have to.

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