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Old 07-03-2011, 08:40 PM   #1
280ss
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Default Stung by Lakeport- I need advice, please.

This is my first post. I follow the forums regularly and need the advice of the members. Here’s my situation:

I own a beautiful 2000 Formula 280ss and have been storing it at Lakeport Landing for the past few winters. I pay a little extra for the heated storage. Each Fall I drop off the boat on a Sunday night, get a bill by mid-week and pay it, in full, before the weekend.

This year, I received my annual letter in the mail from Ted, asking when I’d like the boat splashed and what work I’d like done. I selected ASAP in the water and NO work done (they give me options like: detailing, tune up, oil change… and other services) I decided to do my own work this summer and save some money.

Weeks passed and I never heard from Lakeport. I called Ted asking when I was going to be splashed and he told me that my boat had been in for 3 weeks. They never called to tell me so how would I know??

I told him I was having a friend pick-up the boat for me that afternoon and Ted said, “the boat isn’t moving until you pay your bill.” I reminded Ted I paid the day I got my bill last fall. That’s when he told me his mechanics did $406.00 of work on my boat and it wasn’t moving until the bill was paid.

Okay, let me be clear, until this point, I never had any issues, disagreements or matters of contention with Lakeport Landing. We had a perfectly functional business-to-customer relationship like anybody does with a marina. Furthermore, they sold my first Formula, on consignment in 1998, and I’ve been a storage customer for the past two winters.

Ted told me they put the boat in the water and one engine was overheating so they went ahead and replaced something. (I’m not much of a mechanic so I don’t know if it was a water pump, impeller or both.) While he was in there, he said he replaced the other one too because when one goes, the other isn’t far behind. $406.00 worth of work.

I told him that nobody called me to authorize any work, I specifically said not to do any services on my boat and everything was running great when I dropped it off in the fall for heated storage. Ted agreed that he should have called, but didn’t, and until I pay him $406, my boat wasn’t leaving their property. I asked for the used parts and he could only produce one beat-up impeller. Who knows if was even from my boat?

This is where I may have messed up: Rather than leave my boat captive at Lakeport Landing until I learned my rights, I gave my credit card over the phone, went to the marina in person and took my boat. Unfortunately, I had choice words with Ted on the phone too while he was running my credit card for the $406.00.

I just got my credit card bill and want to dispute the charge. I believe there was nothing wrong with my boat and they were trying to ring the register after a difficult few years. How the heck do I even know if they did any work?

I paid the ransom to get my boat back for the summer. Do I have any recourse? Can anybody suggest another way to remedy this situation??
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:22 PM   #2
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Post Call your credit card company...

I think that your only recourse is to call up your credit card company and tell them that you want to dispute the charge. I suspect that they will ask for information on the transaction and I am not sure whether they will support you or not. It is worth a shot.

It is quite clear that the marinas a staying alive by getting service revenue. I don't know if Lake Port was being overly aggressive or thought that they were doing you a favor as you asked for the boat ASAP. Personally, I know that I am going to pay a certain amount of money each year for routine service and when this type of thing happens I just chalk it up to the costs of running a boat...as long as the service is done properly (it always has been). I have had all kinds of issues with getting my toys serviced and it appears that the local dealerships (and those in MA) have quite a bit of trouble getting/keeping qualified mechanics. Some of the stuff that I have seen boggles the mind.

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Old 07-03-2011, 09:29 PM   #3
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http://doj.nh.gov/consumer/sourcebook/auto-repairs.htm

Boats are considered motor vehicles.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:41 PM   #4
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Lakeport generally has a good rep, I doubt they were trying to rip you off.

Here is what I would suggest...

It's pretty easy to tell a new impeller from an old one, and they're not that hard to get to. I'd ask them to put the impeller with you there and show you the new parts.

If they look new, it was most likely an honest oversight and something you would have had to have done anyway (and if not, could have caused much more expensive damage).

If they look worn, then I would certainly dispute the charge, and maybe go further than that.

My guess is they did the work, but had some internal communications oversight and forgot to get a formal authorization from you.
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:51 AM   #5
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Wink The Power of Winni.com...

1) Your instruction to "not do anything to your boat" should have been in writing.

2) If "Ted" thinks he's lost you as a customer, you could be without your boat for awhile: it doesn't sound like they need the space at the dock.

3) Accept a compromise on the bill, or perhaps a cleaning of the hull's bottom in exchange for the "oversight".

4) You could point "Ted" in the direction of this forum.
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:49 AM   #6
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"Lakeport generally has a good rep, I doubt they were trying to rip you off."

Not anymore and, Yeah, they ripped you off.

If they did ANY work without consulting you first. NO MATTER WHAT....you don't owe them a dime and I would call the police.
There is no talking to be done with anyone except the police and your lawyer.

You didn't authorize any work, and unless you signed some sort of maintenance clause in your storage agreement you don't owe them a dime, and they know it.
Besides anything over certain amount always has to be authorized by the owner before any work goes forward. $400.00 is probably a good number. Not too high and not too low to sound good and for a customer not to make a fuss. He is a shyster.

I'd let them know your going to call the Attorney Generals Office too.

It was illegal for them do anything on your boat, illegal to hold your boat for payment on work not authorized, and to have not called you before the work was done is unconscionable. Holding the boat for payment is simple intimidation. He might as well of held a gun to your head.
Before I did anything though I would certainly get an itemized bill and then start the fireworks.....

I wonder how many other people they did this to this year.

ILLEGAL! No way I would let this go. Maybe the AG's Office would like to do an investigation to see how often this has happened there.

There is a lot of this going around too. I have heard of really high price jacking on services around the lake in the past year or two. And s mentioned we should not be having to make up someones lost business income, just because we are there.

If you don't agree....just hand over your wallets, and bend over.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:02 AM   #7
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If you happened to pay with an amercian express then you are all set. They are great about defending their customers and based on what you said Lakeport was CLEARLY in the wrong. I ran into this problem once before and unless they provided you with a written estimate then they have to eat the charge. Their mistake their problem! I also agree with the previous poster - if the credit card company doesn't back you up go to the state attorney general. That is what I had to do and they were great about it.

Good luck.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:36 AM   #8
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Default Remember folks,

There are two sides to every story.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:40 AM   #9
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Default Credit card dispute

In my opinion you have zero recourse through the credit card company. You paid the charges in order to get your boat, and in so doing, agreed to them. If the card company reads your original email they would quickly conclude you willingly paid and at that point, their responsibility ends. This wasn't an unapproved or fraudulent charge. You admit you approved it. While I agree that the marina has leverage here - pay or don't get your boat back, there were other avenues to pursue before paying the bill. They just take time and probably money to pursue. You opted not to go that route. It is not the card company's job to reimburse you for bad decisions you make. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:51 AM   #10
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Not to be a killjoy but small claims court will most likely be your only recourse. Unless there is evidence of repeated abuse at this specific marina I don't think the AG will get involved. It's unfortunate this happened to you, but there was no other way than pay the bill to get the boat.

Posting your experience here will probably hurt the marina 3 times over in lost business than the $400.00 they collected from you. Some business owners just don't get it! They should have tried to negotiate with you, rather than have you absorb 100% of their mistake.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:53 AM   #11
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And good luck with small claims court. It take about a year and then if you are lucky you get results.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:59 AM   #12
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Default Thank you for the help- I'll take care of this on Tuesday! Happy 4th!

Those who have offered advice, thank you very much. I am going to do all the things you have suggested. The link from TWINS was especially helpful. Thank you. Lakesrider, I will call the AG on Tuesday. Thanks.

I agree with Jetskier too and do regular maintenance every year with scheduled preventive maintenance according to the book and my mechanic. This was an oil change year and I was going to do it with my son.

I also agree that American Express takes great care of the cardholder. I'm 99% sure Lakeport doesn't take Amex.

As I mentioned, I've had a fine relationship with the marina and this was a first. Unless Jonas Pilot is just stirring the pot, I don't understand what the other side of the story could be. I dropped of a boat for heated winter storage and specifically asked for no work to be done and ended up with an additional maintenance bill of $406. Ted said he should have called and didn't. That is the only truth.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:17 AM   #13
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Default well

You say you have a good relationship with Lakeport. That being said, is it possible they actually did you a favor? They figured, well, he's going to have a problem half way home, so 400 bucks (not the end of the world...kind
of tough to keep any marina repair south of 500) and he is back in business.
Yeah, OK, they should have called...but by saying you have good relationship with them, I would assume you have had them do work before. And the ASAP part...they may have thought you needed the boat for something.
Is marina service generally a bit over priced? Of course. Do I think they would lie, or do unneeded work? No, I don't.
All this small claims court/ credit card company stuff???? Christ, they fixed a broken boat for 400 bucks, before making a call. Not really all that evil. Give 'em a break.
They've had enough bad pub for a while.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:29 AM   #14
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Default Local Economy

Congratulations 280ss, you are now part of the local economy!

Too bad you were taken advantage of. Lakesrider is right, it is unconscionable that Lakeport, or any marina, would do unauthorized work on your boat and not release it without payment. Your description of ransom is spot on. Ignore Jonas, some people are just plain negative by nature and refuse to believe others. I think it's a lack of compassion or bad childhood

You are correct Lakeport doesn't take Amex. They told me it was because of the high fee. Maybe it's because of the excellent protection Winnipiseogee speaks of. I bet Visa and Master Card will be advocates too.

Since Mink offered his far-out opinion, I'll offer mine too. I suspect Mink Islander works at or is a customer of Lakeport Landing. Paying a ransom is not considered authorization or consent. I suspect your card company will agree with the majority on this site and you.

Pineedles makes a great point too. Many of us respect the views of long time lake lovers like you and me. With so many choices on the lake, I will choose other vendors to do business with. Even all the way down in Paugus Bay, you can choose Irwin or Paugus Bay Marine over Lakeport. They are all within 100 yards of each other!

Enjoy your boat and go see the fireworks tonight. Happy 4th to you too!!
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:48 AM   #15
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The part whee he says that the guy from the marina tells him "oh no you won't be taking it until you pay the bill" is very suspect and certainly not the way to do anyone any favors. That part alone would have raised the red flag for me.
If he was doing any favors he would have called and said ...."Dude we were out testing your boat and found an issue you may wish to have checked". And then offered to do the work for such and such an amount. Most businesses know full well that if there was no pre-authorization before the work was performed then it is a freebie, unless the customer wishes to pay for it. To tell someone they can't take the boat unless they pay certainly doesn't sound professional to me.
Sure there may be a different side to the story...Call Lakeport ask him to read the thread and reply. Maybe I'll end up sticking my foot in my mouth. But I am going off what 280SS said for the sake of this thread.
But what I said about no authorization, goes for ANY business.
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:04 AM   #16
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Default Say what?

Long Time Laker: you know nothing about me. And even less about credit cards, apparently. There's a not so subtle difference between not authorizing work to be done on your boat and telling a business to charge your credit card with no intent to make the payment. The latter is at least as close to fraud as the former. If Lakeport had your credit card number on file and used it without permission, the card company will reverse the charge. Those are not the facts here, however.

I have no opinion on the whole Lakeport Marine thing. My experience on this forum always leaves me suspect of any newbie member whose first post trashes a local business. There are always at least two sides to a story.
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:38 AM   #17
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Just my two cents, no ax to grind. I started dealing with Lakeport Landing in the 80's. Have had boats stored and serviced their. I have never had a problem with the service department in the past. It sounds like this could have been a simple lack of communication. One of the techs saw a problem and was told to take care of it and somewhere along the line you were not notified. Yes I am sure the shock of having a unexpected bill upset you but if the problem was not addressed you could have had more serious repairs or had to wait to have boat repaired. Try going down and talking to them, I am sure you can work something out or at least get some answers.
Years ago I kept a boat in Alton Bay at one of the marina's year round and asked for a full tune up on the motors. When I stopped in to pay bill I was told they did not accept plastic and could not use boat till bill was paid. That was my last summer at that location.
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:56 AM   #18
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I'll say it again. Going on this scenario....no authorization....No work.
The only favor that got done....according to this scenario....was to the Marina. If it had been me I would have asked for an itemized bill, paid the bill, with no intent to really pay..so that I could get my kidnapped boat back, and notified my CC company. (Maybe my lawyer the AG and BBB.) Luckily he did not pay with cash.
There are no such things as favors. Everything should be strictly business at a Marina. Most are no better than an auto dealership. They think they have you by the gonads and they do. And did apparently in this case as well.

Think about it this way. Your landscaper mows your lawn for a set price every week. That is all he is hired to do. Mow the lawn. But, one day you come home to find him standing there with a a bill stating he applied fertilizer under your rose bushes. You never asked to have the roses fertilized. So you don't want to pay because you didn't request it be done. So the Landscaper says, hey you can't go into your house until you pay me the $400.00 for the fertilizer. What would you do? Yeah...call the police and have the guy escorted away. Absolutely no difference.
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:53 AM   #19
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Preface:

The correct course of action would have been for the Marina to call, describe the problem found, and get authorization for the work. Also, holding the boat hostage was a bad idea.

Some thoughts to ponder though:

How old were the impellers? Being a formula, I'm guessing it has Mercruiser Bravo drives. If they were more than 2-3 years old, they really needed to be changed, they age with time and/or use. It's not a pleasant job and doing it in the water is risky because the pump inlet hose will let water pour into the boat unless you pinch the hose off, but that's not really good for the hose. $406 for parts and labor on a pair of Bravo impellers is pretty reasonable. I know I would not change one in my own boat for less than $200, They are mounted low and are a pain.

I can see how a marina could jump to the conclusion that a customer would like the boat to be operating properly when the customer says to get it in the water ASAP. I know I'd be pretty disappointed to head up to Laconia for a day of boating and discover that my boat is in its slip, but is not useable, and probably needs to come out of the water for the work to be done (and who knows when they could get to it???).

Question to the OP:

If you had driven to Laconia to use the boat and discovered that it was not working correctly, would you have been willing to pay $406 for immediate repairs that "saved" the weekend?

If the answer is yes, then maybe it's not really worth the aggravation of pursuing this problem further. Just take your business elsewhere next time, if you are still bothered by it come Autumn, and enjoy the Summer.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:13 PM   #20
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Default I agree with Jonas Pilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot View Post
There are two sides to every story.
If I came up to a boat in the water and a surprise $406 bill would I be thrilled? No. But would I have had them do the work anyway? Yes. And yes I'd be glad that they started the engine, noticed a problem, and fixed it before it caused more damage.

I'm a very satisfied Lakeport Landing customer and my experience with Ted and his crew has been great. As another "ASAP" boater I know they're slammed early in the season and I can't help but think they were trying to do the right thing by getting the now-fixed boat in the water as quickly as they could.

We own boats. They break and repairs are expensive. At the end of the day I trust the guys at LL and can't imagine things getting to the point where I'm disputing a credit card bill over no call for work that needed to be done anyway.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:38 PM   #21
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Default Stung by LL

280SS, i have to wonder how badly it would have "stung" if, halfway up Paugus one of your engines seized up due to overheating? Would you have blamed the marina for the oversight? Yup, maybe you would have caught it and would have been able to limp back....and maybe not. Either way, you would have had to have the repair done.
We are only hearing one side of this story, as somebody has mentioned. Perhaps the marina was under the impression that you wanted the boat to be operational when you picked it up. I wasn't there, I don't think anybody from this forum was there either. And I have to wonder how confrontational the conversation turned when you discovered the needed repairs had already been done.
Those things do dry up in the winter....had it happen to me. I would have been very happy if the marina had caught it. As it turned out, it disintegrated on my way back to my slip...no damage done, but my boat was tied up for a few days while it was in for the repair.
Not sticking up for anybody here unless and until I hear "the rest of the story".
Have a Happy and Safe 4th.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:31 PM   #22
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Default Really?!

Lakerider, sorry. The comparison you made to the rose bushes does not apply and is indeed comical. I actually laughted! A fair comparison would have been if the landscaper found severe grub damage while mowing, and treated for the grubs, later explaining that it simply something that had to be done before getting worse. That would indeed be a fair comparison.
Your insinuation that a criminal act took place is simply puzzling. Just plain bizarre. The marina made a repair for under $500, and somehow forgot to get authorization. Really, just about it. Call the police??!!
At the marina we use..PBM...it is standard practice that the boats are checked to be in working condition as they get them ready for summer. A list is made of the boats with faults and the owners contacted about repairs. I would guess all Marnias do this.
So, possibly at Lakeport someone accidentally did the work, before calling. Honest mistake....maybe anyway. It does seem like a reasonable conclusion.
Rose bushes, police, lawyers, BBB, criminal.....are you fried?
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:40 PM   #23
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Default I agree with Jonas and Diz

Quote:
Originally Posted by diz View Post
If I came up to a boat in the water and a surprise $406 bill would I be thrilled? No. But would I have had them do the work anyway? Yes. And yes I'd be glad that they started the engine, noticed a problem, and fixed it before it caused more damage.

I'm a very satisfied Lakeport Landing customer and my experience with Ted and his crew has been great. As another "ASAP" boater I know they're slammed early in the season and I can't help but think they were trying to do the right thing by getting the now-fixed boat in the water as quickly as they could.

We own boats. They break and repairs are expensive. At the end of the day I trust the guys at LL and can't imagine things getting to the point where I'm disputing a credit card bill over no call for work that needed to be done anyway.
I've kept my boat at Lakeport for 17 years and NEVER had a problem with Ted, Ron or anyone else in the Service Department. During those seventeen years, LLM has winterized and serviced my without any issues such as bad work, over payment or non-authorized work. In fact they have not even charged me for minor repairs.

I have several friends that have their boats at other Marina's around Winnie, but take their boat to LLM for service.

Water pump impellors last only about three years. They should be changed on a frequent interval to avoid a breakdown on the lake. The tow bill alone will cost you $300 - $400 alone!

It sounds to me that there was a miss-communication when you spoke with Ted initially about "launching" your boat.

It's unfortunate that you have a $406 bill, but it could have been a whole lot more if you broke down on the lake....

The folks at Lakeport Landing Marina are OK by me!
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:58 PM   #24
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Comical.....yep funny, and I was somewhat trying to be, as I could just picture a landscaper trying to stop someone from entering their home.

Plain and simple, the work, if done at all, was not authorized. Everyone is simply assuming that this boat was going to crap out in the middle of the broads or something. You can't know that. My biggest thing is that the guy was told he was not going to get the boat until he paid for repairs he did not authorize. I was a mechanic. I was never allowed to perform work on a customers vehicle unless the customer approved of the work. I couldn't just go and change a timing belt, even if I saw it was cracked or frayed, just because I thought it was a good idea and might prevent the valves from being damaged if the belt broke. It had to be authorized. If the marina had simply forgotten to get this authorization, why be so belligerent as to hold the boat for payment? that is my question about the whole thing.

Now then I have given my advise, you didn't ask for it, but now all of you owe me a beer. Pay up or I'm not going to let you use your BBQs this Summer.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:10 PM   #25
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Default Hanlon's Razor

My experience on the lake with a couple of marinas and island contractors has taught me to rely heavily on Hanlon's Razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:35 PM   #26
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Default 280ss

I should preface by saying that I keep and store my boat at Lakeport and have nothing but good things to say about their service dept. They have more than enough business, to suggest any subterfuge to make unneeded repairs to get into someones wallet (especially for 400 bucks!!) is absurd. I know that staff personally and will vouch for Ron and his crew. They are platimum Merc certified, there's not very many marinas on the lake with that cert. When it comes to my boat I trust their technical acumen implicitly. Should they have called and/or made it clear that the impellers needed to be replaced yes, absolutely and if they didn't they need to offer a sincere apology for not calling.

You have a great boat worth I'm guessing north of $50K. You paid (I'm guessing again near $2K) to put it in heated storage and now you have your panties in a bunch over a $400 bill for a maintainence issue discovered this spring by a certified Merc mechanic?? You should have walked over to the sales office and discussed this matter with Erica directly b4 paying your bill. Once you paid you in effect agreed to the work that was performed.

Regardless of my opinion I repeat the question to 280ss asked by Dave R:

When were the impellers last replaced?
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:06 PM   #27
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From a legal standpoint they did not have the legal right to change the parts without authorization. From a customer service standpoint IMHO they did the right thing to protect your investment. I have never done any business with or am I involved with LLM but know several marinas on the lake that have that kind of responsible relationship with thier customers and would have done the same. Would I have voiced my opinion about not being called to the owners YES. But hindsite being 20/20 it was done for my benefit and I would simply ask to be called in the future so as not to be blindsided with an unexpected bill.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:34 PM   #28
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You got a bunch of issues here lets seperate them. First the criminal stuff, if they intentionally billed you for work they didn't do, they commited a crime. Does anyone really they believe they did this, I don't. So leave the police, credit card company and attorney general out of this.

Now the rest, car dealers and boat dealers have been playing this game as long as there have been cars and boats. Every service shop needs more business, so stuff that is near the end of it's usefull life gets flagged and the dealer tries to make a sale. "We noticed your, brakes were worn, your battery was old, your impellar was old, your ball joints, your shocks, or what ever" always followed by " it's really not safe for you to operate the vehicle like this, you could get hurt or cause more damage"

The problem here is they skipped the scare the customer step. You have to decide what to do about it. First, this stuff really does wear out, so maybe you really needed impellars. Too many dishonest people make it tough for honest people. Second $406 is not a ton of money, all the remedies will cost you more than the disputed amount.

I had this happen with batteries, I just switched dealers. With cell phones, there is never a reason not to get a call before do the service.
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:03 PM   #29
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Second $406 is not a ton of money
This is very true, and one the things that has me puzzled about this.

I doubt they just outright hit him with a fraudulent charge for no work done. *If* that is true, then you have to image their total profit on this can't be very much, $200ish at most? Why would they risk their reputation as a marina, and with an apparently long standing customer for $200?

I've never heard of anyone else claimed LL did unauthorized work like this, so it doesn't seem like a trend. They'd have to be doing it with a high frequency in order for it to be worthwhile, which makes it likely we would have heard from someone else with a similar report.

I still think they did the work in good faith and had an honest mix-up. Their handling of the overdue bill sounds a bit harsh, but I'm inclined to think the conversation was a little more nuanced than what was laid out here (no offense to the OP, but in the heat of passion things can be mis-remembered).

As others have pointed out, there is a way to handle this as a strict interpretation of the law, and a way to handle it after first determining if it really seems like there was genuine malice or fraudulent intent.

I'd bet that LLM did *not* value $200 (or even $406) above their reputation and history with a previously loyal customer.
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:03 PM   #30
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Brk-Int with due respect, the reputation thing is hooey. I don't know these guys from Adam, but this happens everywhere. You really have to watch or you won't notice.

The reason it's a small amount is because people won't fight as hard for a small amount. The reason it's a normal wear item is because people expect to have this stuff wear out. The reason there was no call because, the customer might have said no, or the customer might have asked for the worn parts.

People like this really don't consider it wrong, the parts are worn, they will need to be replaced. Might as well do it now when I can make the bucks now, instead of next season, when the customer might go somewhere else or even do it himself.

To be sure 280ss should ask to see the work order, it should say when and where they attemped to contact the customer. It won't say it because they didn't and everyone in that shop knows they need customers permission to do a repair.

This is my guess and opinion, I wasn't there and have no facts beyond the words in this thread.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:28 AM   #31
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Before calling the AG;
Before calling the BBB;
Before calling your credit card company;

Wouldn't it be a good idea to stop in to LL and speak to someone in charge and try to get this worked out?
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:54 AM   #32
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Brk-Int with due respect, the reputation thing is hooey. I don't know these guys from Adam, but this happens everywhere. You really have to watch or you won't notice.

The reason it's a small amount is because people won't fight as hard for a small amount. The reason it's a normal wear item is because people expect to have this stuff wear out. The reason there was no call because, the customer might have said no, or the customer might have asked for the worn parts.

People like this really don't consider it wrong, the parts are worn, they will need to be replaced. Might as well do it now when I can make the bucks now, instead of next season, when the customer might go somewhere else or even do it himself.

To be sure 280ss should ask to see the work order, it should say when and where they attemped to contact the customer. It won't say it because they didn't and everyone in that shop knows they need customers permission to do a repair.

This is my guess and opinion, I wasn't there and have no facts beyond the words in this thread.
The marina appears to have fallen down on the job by doing unauthorized work and leaving the boat owner's boat at its slip for several weeks before contacting him to say that it was ready for use. The situation was made worse by Ted's failure to adequately apologize for his oversights. Not great work on the part of the marina but nothing outrageous either.

My feeling is the boat owner is technically correct, but he has overreacted. We have all been in similar situations and with the benefit of time and/or experience realize the other party wasn't being unreasonable. Perhaps a bit sloppy but not unreasonable. The boat owner could apologize but that is probably not a viable option since the marina has most certainly read this thread. At the end of the day he won't recover much, if any, of his money; his Fourth of July weekend was likely ruined as he fretted about the situation and he has to deal with finding a new marina in the fall. Hopefully, he will come to his senses and drop his complaints before the situation gets worse.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:26 AM   #33
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Too bad someone from LL doesn't reply. I'd sure want to get my side of the story out there if I was taking a beating.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:32 AM   #34
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I don't understand all the people telling him the Marina did him a favor by replacing impellers, if that is what they did. We still don't really know what they did so far. Everyone is simply assuming it was the impellers. Could have been thermostats. Could have been exhaust elbow gaskets.

In the original post he stated that he told them NOT to do any work to the boat because HE was going to do the work on the boat HIMSELF.

I also don't understand why everyone is being so complacent. Do you all just let people do stuff to your possessions and investments without questioning anything? That is all the OP is doing. Questioning. That is why he posted here. He was looking for advise to something that happened to him. I am a bit surprised as to the non support he got by people telling him that the Marina did him a favor. A favor to the tune of over $400.00.
A favor would have been to have found and corrected the issue and told him to have a nice day and enjoy the boat. Then there would have been a totally different type of thread going on. And for the so called profit of only $200.00 that someone mentioned, they would have had a big marketing day on this forum. Everyone is saying that $400.00 is nothing to get your panties in a bunch over...so why did the Marina, by telling him he couldn't take the boat unless he paid? I mean if their profit was only $200.00 in the whole deal you have to wonder why they were so adamant about not letting him take the boat at all. Especially when it was their mess up.
To allow companies to just nonchalantly charge people for work that was not authorized, and BTW, BS asking as to when his impellers were last changed, which has nothing to do with the issue, is, well, BS. The issue is that work was preformed without authorization. Not to question his maintenance schedule.
And why is it his responsibility to go back and talk to the marina? Again? Why wouldn't the Marina, if it is sucha n outstanding place, have come up with a solution right on the spot? Instead of getting the whole thing whacked out on the internet.
Once again.....
Go back and read the original posting. He asked that NO work be done. There were no FAVORS done, and non should have been done without consulting with the owner of the vessel first. Favor or billed.
I may not understand why the OP didn't call the marina if after a few weeks he hadn't heard from them for an ASAP splash in....but, I have to also question why a Marina would allow a boat to sit in a slip, with a $400.00 bill sitting there for those weeks as well. Most marinas want the space back when it is busy.
Yes this was a complete breakdown in communications on both parties, but not something that should simply be accepted as OK or normal.
We all have the responsibility of watching over our investments and money.
There may not be that much of it left in a few years the way things are going with the economy. And I for one don't want to fund someones retirement, simply because I let things slide.

BTW if $400.00 is nothing to get panties in a bunch, I'll PM you my address and you can send it to me...I'll donate it at the Forum Fest.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:39 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakesrider View Post
I don't understand all the people telling him the Marina did him a favor by replacing impellers, if that is what they did. We still don't really know what they did so far. Everyone is simply assuming it was the impellers. Could have been thermostats. Could have been exhaust elbow gaskets.
People are assuming it was the impellers because the OP stated that, "I asked for the used parts and he could only produce one beat-up impeller."
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:21 AM   #36
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Default Lesson learned

Lakeport isn' known for stealing, lying, or scams. I would bet a fair amount that the work did need to be done and it was done well.

The problem is they didn't communicate. Like every car dealer, car mechanic, boat dealer, boat mechanic, marina, etc, etc that I have ever dealt with, they are not good with customer relations. They range from terrible to good on each and every transaction. It depends on their mood and which way the wind blows.

So I wouldn't worry about the AG, BBB, etc, they didn't scam you.

The second problem is one that the marina created by doing work without permission. Unless you have an open business understanding that work will be done as needed, they should never do work without permission.

For me that is the same as reaching into my wallet and taking the money without asking me. It is a simple communication that should be done to avoid this mess. They could even ask early on in the relationship if it is okay to do work needed under a certain price without asking.

With that said, if they did this to me, and then gave me an ounce of an attitude they would lose my business overnight. That is your only real recourse.

You expectations are too high (That is not an insult to you my friend). To me this is the statis quo in the mechanical fields. I have been disappointed time and time again.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:23 AM   #37
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I was going off this statement...

Ted told me they put the boat in the water and one engine was overheating so they went ahead and replaced something. (I’m not much of a mechanic so I don’t know if it was a water pump, impeller or both.) While he was in there, he said he replaced the other one too because when one goes, the other isn’t far behind. $406.00 worth of work.

Just guessing it was not an itemized bill, as it should be, if the owner could not tell what work was performed. BTW I have a bunch of old impellers in a box in my garage as well. I mean how hard is it to simply write "R&R impellers" on the bill.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:41 AM   #38
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This thread is taking a very slanderous turn, opined by 3rd parties who have no direct experience with what I, and many others on here, consider a top notch facility. A minor miscommunication concerning a relatively inexpensive, but needed repair that let 280ss get back to his dock to start his boating season without the expense of a SeaTow or any unnecessary drama. jrc's know them from Adam comment is a prime example.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:31 AM   #39
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Is this more libel than slander, as you have never heard my voice?

Rereading my posts, I find one sentence where someone might conclude I attributed bad behavior directly to Lakeport Landing. The bulk of my posts and my intent was to communicate that this is a frequent occurrence at many dealers. I have no facts of the situation, I was just offering advice to the orignal poster.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:56 AM   #40
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This thread is taking a very slanderous turn, opined by 3rd parties who have no direct experience with what I, and many others on here, consider a top notch facility. A minor miscommunication concerning a relatively inexpensive, but needed repair that let 280ss get back to his dock to start his boating season without the expense of a SeaTow or any unnecessary drama. jrc's know them from Adam comment is a prime example.

Good Point, let me state that I was a customer of LP for close to 10 years, so my post isn't just assumptions.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:24 PM   #41
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Whoa, this thread has gotten very messy...which is sad as the original poster was just looking for advice on what to do.

280ss,

Sorry to here about your misfortune at LakePort Landing. Now first of all think about what 400$ means to you before you go any further... Sure Small claims court is a possibility, but that means a day away from work. Sure you could fight the charges through the credit card company, but in the end you may still have to pay the charge and that is a negative on your credit report. so with that to ponder, let me tell you what I would do...

Assuming that "Ted" is the Maintenance Manager at LakePort, I would talk to his boss, with Ted Present. Let his boss decide how to resolve the situation. If you can't prove that they didn't do the work, this is your best avenue. The bottom line is the work was probably done, authorized or not. Should they give you something for free? The answer is no. Should they compensate you for their mistake of not getting authorization, yes... If they asked you to pay for the parts and they will eat the labor, I would be happy with that and walk away.

Now by walking away, I mean walk away as a customer that will not return.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:35 PM   #42
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I have to agree with Lakesrider on this one. I own an independent tire shop and if someone dropped a car off at my shop in the spring and told me it had been in storage for the winter and wanted to have the air pressure checked and said they would be back to pick it up in a couple of hours. If I replaced all 4 tires because I thought they were bald and handed them a bill for $400 when they got back and told them they could not take their car until they paid it I bet I would have a very upset customer on my hands. Because the person paid the bill there is probably nothing they can do now but this is very poor business practice and the shop did not do this customer any "favors" at all.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:14 PM   #43
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Default Arrogance

The sheer arrogance of the marina is what irks me. Years ago, I contested a charge for work on my boat at Shep Brown's (old management, not the Littlefields). I got my money back but was told never to come back, that they would no longer store my boat or work on it.

Pure arrogance!
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:23 PM   #44
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Default Gotta look at it both ways ....

I think Ted is guilty of not communicating.

1. He should have called you when the boat got dumped in the water.
2. He should have called you when they found that the engine was overheating.
3. He shouldn't have fixed the 2nd engine without approval.

I think you are guilty of overreacting to an unexpected bill. Put yourself in their shoes. The boat gets dumped in the water. As they should, they start it up an check to make sure things are operationally OK. Nope, it's overheating. Boat is now wet, and clogging up their ramp. Disregarding the poor lack of communication, here are the choices that Ted would have to give to you, had he called you:

1. Pull it back out of the water, and let it clog up the yard, and tell you you're gonna have to pay another lift fee to get it wet again.
2. Leave it in the water, so you can drive your overheating boat to some other yard, where you can pay another yard to haul it out, and you can rebuild the engine yourself.
3. Leave it in the water, and let you find out the problem when you show up to have a nice weekend on the lake.
4. Fix it, so you can actually use your nice Formula.

99% (if not 100%!) of Lakeport's customers would have said "fix it". You've really got no choice. You can't fix it yourself, because you can't pick it up. You can't drive it someplace else, because it will overheat. I'll bet 95% of customers would have taken the advice to do the precautionary fix on the other side.

If I were Lakeport, I would do the following:

1. Tell my service department to make sure they communicate better.
2. Send you 1/2 your money back, for the side they didn't "have to" fix.

If I were you, I would do the following:

1. Let it go. Had they made the call, you'd certainly have told them to at least fix one side.
2. If they don't call you first, call them, tell them that you're sorry it got to this, and ask them if they would be willing to reimburse 1/2 your bill.

If you both like the response, you can can both continue to do business together. If either one doesn't wish to settle it, than you won't have to worry about each other again.

My bet says they settle, if you're nice about it.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:03 AM   #45
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Iron Fish had a great response. I think your best course of action is to go directly to Ted and have a civil conversation between to adults and square it away. Its the communication thing and I find that if you actually speak your concerns the other party also being a reasonable adult will be receptive and you both can come out of this better people. Then you can enjoy the rest of the summer and you both will have a better respect for each other...

Good luck and I hope that this bit of advise helps some...
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:16 AM   #46
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280ss..............Please finish the story. What did you do and how did things turnout?
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