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Old 10-01-2009, 07:10 AM   #1
Belmont Resident
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Default Issue with Fays service dept

My wife brought her boat to Fay’s Boat Yard for a problem she was having with her outdrive clunking or vibrating as she described it. They found a bad gimbal bearing and replaced it water tested the boat and deemed it fixed. Well after driving the boat back to her slip and backing it into the slip she found it doing the same thing. She calls Fays and returned the boat to them. This time they said the shift linkage was the problem and repaired several things associated with that. Tested boat deemed fixed.
The first time my wife uses it the boat is again doing the same thing and seems to be getting worse. At this point I’ve told my wife they do not have a clue and all they have been doing is guessing.
Well as it turns out I was correct, she brought the boat back and they pretty much said it might be this it might be that but they just were not sure and recommended a very costly replacement of outdrive parts.
Also the first time she picked up the boat the cover was full of water because the center pole was not put back up. The mechanics response was that it is not their responsibility to put up the poles.
Insurance company was called, the boat was taken to a different location, the outdrive was inspected by their mechanic and the insurance adjuster. Right away several things came to their attention. Parts were not put back together correctly (bellows left unconnected) and a wire was found hanging which alone was causing her outdrive to corrode at a higher than normal rate. 2 of the steering bushings were so worn we cannot figure out how they were not noticed especially since they had removed the outdrive at least once if not twice. The steering cable was separated and broken.
The last two things were probably inducing considerable play into the steering creating the problem at hand.
I was against using Fays because I do not knowingly give business to anyone who was a supporter of the speed limit bill, but they sell Chaparral boats so my wife thought they would be capable of taking care of the problem.
Thanks to Jason at Irwin Marina for locating and going over the problems in detail with me.
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:48 AM   #2
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Default Surprising...

I am surprised to hear this. Jeff Fay who heads up the service department is an extremely knowledgeable and well respected mechanic. Many people who are island residents in Gilford slip and have service work done there and everyone I have spoken to speaks very highly of their servicing.

This was my first year of slipping my boat / boats there and can tell you that I have had a good experience with Jeff and his crew. I had one minor issue which had nothing to do with their servicing.

It would be in your best interest to bring your findings directly to Jeff to discuss. Maybe at least he would relook at whatever bill may get sent to you.

Good Luck!

Dan
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:09 AM   #3
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Default surprised

She did question the work & amount which is why I decided to put this post up. I feel she payed for service not needed as it had no impact on the problem which seemed to get worse after each visit.
I do not mind paying for work completed properly but what really was the determining factor was when the adjuster and service tech found parts of the outdrive not properly assembled. And when you lifted up on the outdrive it was abvious both piston bushings were worn, there was at least 1/4inch of play in each bushing.

Having worked as a technician for 20 years before becoming a contractor I believe attention to detail, which I feel was lacking here, is very important.
All of my work is completed with that in mind.
Another example of lacking detail, the cover filled up with waterdue to the missing pole and dirty footprints all ober the boat.

I'm sure there are plenty who have had excellent work there but we did not.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:38 AM   #4
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We have a history of 20+ years of good service from Jeff and Merrill keeping the old Slickcraft going. So I am also surprised at the issues you had.

I agree with 308 that you should meet with Jeff to go over your issues and the bill.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:47 AM   #5
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My experience with Fay's, and particularly with Jeff Fay has always been Positive...above and beyond what one might expect from many boat service facilities. ...and Jeff knows I'm just a Tourist who shows up maybe two weeks a year. NB
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:04 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Belmont Resident View Post
Insurance company was called, the boat was taken to a different location, the outdrive was inspected by their mechanic and the insurance adjuster.

Will your Insurance Company pay for some of the repairs?
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:53 PM   #7
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Default Fays

I have a 1979 115 hp Evinrude. The shocks on it were broken and they do not make them anymore. I went to five Marinas and got help from only Fay's he gave me an address out west that make replacements, he also suggested that I go to M&M in Meridith and they might be able to help. I must say that another marina sent me to Fays. This past weekend I busted of all things my steering wheel. Fays had one and the price was decent. I had a small sailboat and a mast line broke Yup Fays Made one up on the spot for me. I have always been treated well there and will continue to go there
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Old 10-01-2009, 03:46 PM   #8
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Default Fays Service

I have been at Fay's for about 9 years. I have had nothing but POSITIVE experiences with their service dept. Steve usually deals with my boat and he is top notch in ALL respects. I've had a few dealings with Jeff and I can speak highly of him also. My experience with Fay's is that they stand behind their work.
I'm not making any assumptions here on what may have happened but on the outside it appears there may be other circumstances involved that we are not aware of. Have a honest conversation with Steve or Jeff, if history is any indication I"m sure they will respond in a positive manner to your concerns.

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Old 10-01-2009, 11:37 PM   #9
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I have had a single experince with Fay's.

My Dad dealt with Fay's re: his sailboat faithfully.

To make a short story shorter, my father's sailboat outboard was giving him trouble. I took it to Fays. The mechanic disagnosed the problem and removed the offending part from another customer's small engine and put it on mine! Smiled and told me the other person could aford the new part!

I was happy that my dad's engine was working again but I never went back to Fay's for anything after that!
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:40 PM   #10
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Default insurance did not cover

No the problem was found to be wear & tear with the initial failed gimbal bearing being due to the grease tube being pulled out of the bearing housing which allowed water to enter and eventually lock it up with rust.
As to all who have had good service I'm happy for you personally before this I'd not heard anything bad about them and they sell this brand of boat.
Honestly if I had not seen the problems I would not believed they could be overlooked.
But I saw where the hose clamp on the belows was not installed in the original place but instead installed back to far so it was not grabbing on anything under the belows.
Then I lifted up on the outdrive myself and saw that the bushings were almost worn thru as well as the wire hanging from the sensor beneith the outdrive that has to do with anti corrosion.
I also understand that you sometimes get tunnell vision and focus on one thing instead of sometimes looking for what is staring you in the face.
What pissed me off the most was the mechanics total lack of care when I confronted him about my wifes cover being stretched to the limit because they neglected to reinstall the pole.
Also the boat was again brought to them either 3 or 4 times and none of the problems mentioned were noticed.
I'm sorry but I just cannot find anything good to say about the experiance.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Belmont Resident View Post
No the problem was found to be wear & tear with the initial failed gimbal bearing being due to the grease tube being pulled out of the bearing housing which allowed water to enter and eventually lock it up with rust.
As to all who have had good service I'm happy for you personally before this I'd not heard anything bad about them and they sell this brand of boat.
Honestly if I had not seen the problems I would not believed they could be overlooked.
But I saw where the hose clamp on the belows was not installed in the original place but instead installed back to far so it was not grabbing on anything under the belows.
Then I lifted up on the outdrive myself and saw that the bushings were almost worn thru as well as the wire hanging from the sensor beneith the outdrive that has to do with anti corrosion.
I also understand that you sometimes get tunnell vision and focus on one thing instead of sometimes looking for what is staring you in the face.
What pissed me off the most was the mechanics total lack of care when I confronted him about my wifes cover being stretched to the limit because they neglected to reinstall the pole.
Also the boat was again brought to them either 3 or 4 times and none of the problems mentioned were noticed.
I'm sorry but I just cannot find anything good to say about the experiance.

I have been trying to understand exactly what the initial problem was/is with the outdrive. You seem to dwell so much on the things that do not relate to the initial problem that I can’t figure out what the problem really is.
Would it be possible to start over and go into detail as to what the problem is/was with the outdrive.
For someone who say’s they are very detail in how they do things, you haven’t done a very good job explaining the initial problem and fix with the outdrive. Your emotions are getting in your way and it is affecting the way you are explaining the real problem.
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:56 PM   #12
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I have to concur with YS. I think the great majority of "Boaters" have no clew HOW mechanical stuff works (and why should they?) and they get frustrated and start throwing stuff around.... to see what sticks to the wall. When they start talking to Second Partys...things just get more complicated.... If the second party says the right things, he has a NEW client.

In this case: An example of the frustration is the "Cover" without the "Pole" thingy. Who cares about a stinkin cover? . A stretched cover is not going to have any effect on the solution to an outdrive that is clunking.

Drive lift cylinder bushings that have a 1/4 inch of play...?? That has nothing to do with outdrive "clunking" and IF this description were TRUE...the cylinders WOULD NOT WORK at all.

I have deep sympathy for people who are not technically inclined because in my opinion they are definitely TARGETS for unscrupulous "Technicians". I think Fays is NOT one of these. I have delt with boat dealers/service technicians off and on, over the past 40 years and my experience has been pretty much NEGATIVE. Because of that experience, I do almost ..all my own work. My most recent experience has been with FAYS...and the experience has been...POSITIVE. NB

Last edited by NoBozo; 10-03-2009 at 10:51 AM. Reason: (SP)
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:01 PM   #13
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Arrow Fay's reputation

Having lived in Fay's neighborhood for years, my Dad and I have used the service dept a number of times. We had pretty good luck with them. And the few times we had to go back, they fix the problem without charging extra.
I have seen it is common practice for marinas to take parts out of other boats when a new one is not available. They know that customers want to be back on the water ASAP.
It is tough to get a good mechanic. Once you find one, you should stick to that mechanic, even if he change marinas. The mechanic that my family rely on have retired from Fay's Boatyard and I have found another one I trust at another marina.
Having said that, I have not been to Fay's for years. he may have lost good mechanics and I am sure he will find better ones. Everyone has their ups and downs.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
I have seen it is common practice for marinas to take parts out of other boats when a new one is not available. They know that customers want to be back on the water ASAP.

I had a situation 25 years ago when my wife and I were touring Eastern Canada on a new 1983 Yamaha Venture motorcycle. The alternator died @ around 12,000 miles on the odometer. It was in Remouski, Quebec. I found a Yamaha dealer who was closed for "Inventory" that day. He took me in....he didn't speak English but his wife did. They called all over Eastern Canada for the part...on a weekend..to no avail.

The dealer had a local bike in for service with the desirable part and called the owner and asked if he could "borrow" the part. The owner said YES. We were on our way a few hours later. COST..?? NOTHING. The dealer said the Yamaha Warranty would cover it AND the "borrowed" part on the other guys bike would be replaced as well.

When I got home, Yamaha had come up with a FIX for a Design Problem and replaced my alternator again with the NEW Modification. Again..FREE

When I finally sold the motorcycle.....it had 145,000 miles on it. NB

PS: There are some good eggs out there.
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:26 PM   #15
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BR, It sounds like you had a bad experience and that is too bad. Boat service is one of those things in life that requires the most trust. Fays did not earn yours so you have to move on (best of luck with your next mechanic). The cover issue is ridiculous- they don't replace poles?? You should get your boat back how you brought it in and it should be as clean or cleaner.

On the other hand, the majority support the quality of work at Fay's and that is good. If I were in the market for a mechanic, I would try them out.
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBozo View Post
In this case: An example of the frustration is the "Cover" without the "Pole" thingy. Who cares about a stinkin cover? . A stretched cover is not going to have any effect on the solution to an outdrive that is clunking.
I think that point of that statement originally was to convey a general lack of professionalism and concern for the integrity of the customers boat on the part of the service department.

Sure, the cover has nothing to do with the outdrive directly. But, how the technician deals with the minor details can tell you a lot about their overall approach to problem solving and troubleshooting.
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
I have had a single experince with Fay's...The mechanic disagnosed the problem and removed the offending part from another customer's small engine and put it on mine! Smiled and told me the other person could afford the new part..."
Couldn't the part have come from a Fays-owned engine?
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:42 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brk-lnt View Post
I think that point of that statement originally was to convey a general lack of professionalism and concern for the integrity of the customers boat on the part of the service department.

Sure, the cover has nothing to do with the outdrive directly. But, how the technician deals with the minor details can tell you a lot about their overall approach to problem solving and troubleshooting.
Very good point. I was just commenting on the cover seeming to be a big distraction to the poster.. small details ARE also important for just the reason you suggested. NB
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:20 AM   #19
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Default original problem

When the boat was put into reverse it vibrated and clunked as if things were not meshing properly. Fay’s found and replaced a rusted and bound up gamble bearing then returned boat to us. Two or three consecutive returns netted little change and the mechanic pretty much stating they did not know what the problem was, but suggested the possibility of rebuilding the outdrive.
I believe the severely worn bushings coupled with the broken steering cable left enough play in the system to induce a severe vibration due to it being a duo-prop and the amount of torque it produces when put into gear. Pretty much everything from the steering wheel to the outdrive had a large amount of play in it as determined by a different mechanic.
As for getting upset with the marina yes I am. The boat was cleaned up and launched by my wife. I had no time to look into the problem due to my busy schedule that is why we took it to a marine. As for throwing things out there, all of the problems found were found by the mechanic at Irwin’s in short order.
I have a troubleshooting and diagnostics (electro-mechanical engineering) background having done so for 20 years before getting out of it and becoming a self employed contractor. So I have a really good understanding of the operation of most moving parts and was able to fully understand what was presented to me by both Fay’s and Irwin’s.
As for Fays Marina before this happened I had reservations about bringing the boat there.
As you drive into the place you are greeted with a picture of a cross between a dump and a boat junk yard. This has been brought up in conversation long before this happened with people who go there to do work on boats. I’ve been to a lot of marina’s around the lake and Fay’s is one of the most disorganized I’ve seen.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:00 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Belmont Resident View Post
When the boat was put into reverse it vibrated and clunked as if things were not meshing properly. Fay’s found and replaced a rusted and bound up gamble bearing then returned boat to us. Two or three consecutive returns netted little change and the mechanic pretty much stating they did not know what the problem was, but suggested the possibility of rebuilding the outdrive.
I believe the severely worn bushings coupled with the broken steering cable left enough play in the system to induce a severe vibration due to it being a duo-prop and the amount of torque it produces when put into gear. Pretty much everything from the steering wheel to the outdrive had a large amount of play in it as determined by a different mechanic.
As for getting upset with the marina yes I am. The boat was cleaned up and launched by my wife. I had no time to look into the problem due to my busy schedule that is why we took it to a marine. As for throwing things out there, all of the problems found were found by the mechanic at Irwin’s in short order.
I have a troubleshooting and diagnostics (electro-mechanical engineering) background having done so for 20 years before getting out of it and becoming a self employed contractor. So I have a really good understanding of the operation of most moving parts and was able to fully understand what was presented to me by both Fay’s and Irwin’s.
As for Fays Marina before this happened I had reservations about bringing the boat there.
As you drive into the place you are greeted with a picture of a cross between a dump and a boat junk yard. This has been brought up in conversation long before this happened with people who go there to do work on boats. I’ve been to a lot of marina’s around the lake and Fay’s is one of the most disorganized I’ve seen.
Question 1: After replacing the Gimble Bearing, did the outdrive go into reverse without anymore vibration and clunking? Forget about the other problems for now and state whether the outdrive is OK or not.

Question 2: How many times did your wife bring back the boat, 2 or 3 times? Certainly you must know if it's 2 or 3. After your wife brought back the boat the first time, what did she say they did to it? Then, after she brought the boat back the 2nd time, what did your wife say they did to it. Then if in fact there was a 3rd time, what did your wife say they did to it? Or did your wife keep bringing it back and each time they said “I don't know what's wrong"? Also did you bring the boat back at anytime?

Question 3: Everything from the steering wheel to the outdrive that had a large amount of play does not happen overnight. Why was all of this neglected over the years that it took to happen? Must be your maintenance schedule was a little lax.

Question 4: When you put the boat away last year, was everything working good? It seems to me that the boat must have had the same problem and you just ignored it. Then you stored it away with out properly greasing the Gimble Bearing which caused it to rust.

Question 5: If you know so much about mechanical parts and how they work, why didn't you at least look the boat over a little bit before you made your wife get into so much trouble. It seems like you have plenty of time to complain about it now.

Question 6 : Did you finally get the problems fixed and did they do it right the first time?


I really don't understand why you brought the boat to Fay's in the first place. Your remarks about them makes it look like no matter what they did you wouldn't have been satisfied. Also because you were the third party in this whole thing, do you think maybe there was a communication gap between you, your wife, and Fay's?

This whole thing reminds me of people who take there car to be serviced no more than once in ten years and then complain because they find things wrong with it.
I kinda think that maybe you might be are one of these people.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
Question 1: After replacing the Gimble Bearing, did the outdrive go into reverse without anymore vibration and clunking? Forget about the other problems for now and state whether the outdrive is OK or not.

Question 2: How many times did your wife bring back the boat, 2 or 3 times? Certainly you must know if it's 2 or 3. After your wife brought back the boat the first time, what did she say they did to it? Then, after she brought the boat back the 2nd time, what did your wife say they did to it. Then if in fact there was a 3rd time, what did your wife say they did to it? Or did your wife keep bringing it back and each time they said “I don't know what's wrong"? Also did you bring the boat back at anytime?

Question 3: Everything from the steering wheel to the outdrive that had a large amount of play does not happen overnight. Why was all of this neglected over the years that it took to happen? Must be your maintenance schedule was a little lax.

Question 4: When you put the boat away last year, was everything working good? It seems to me that the boat must have had the same problem and you just ignored it. Then you stored it away with out properly greasing the Gimble Bearing which caused it to rust.

Question 5: If you know so much about mechanical parts and how they work, why didn't you at least look the boat over a little bit before you made your wife get into so much trouble. It seems like you have plenty of time to complain about it now.

Question 6 : Did you finally get the problems fixed and did they do it right the first time?


I really don't understand why you brought the boat to Fay's in the first place. Your remarks about them makes it look like no matter what they did you wouldn't have been satisfied. Also because you were the third party in this whole thing, do you think maybe there was a communication gap between you, your wife, and Fay's?

This whole thing reminds me of people who take there car to be serviced no more than once in ten years and then complain because they find things wrong with it.
I kinda think that maybe you might be are one of these people.
Belmont, adhering to the first question, you may want to wait a few hours before answering the next in line.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:52 PM   #22
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I was against using Fays because I do not knowingly give business to anyone who was a supporter of the speed limit bill...
Thanks to Jason at Irwin Marina for locating and going over the problems
BR,
I have to wonder whether Fay's Speed Limit support may be the true cause of your trouble with them. That is fine, but if it is the case you really should have just been honest about it, said it plainly, and posted this in the "anti-SL" threads. I wonder if what you are really trying to accomplish is to dissuade people from patronizing a speed limit supporting marina (Fay's) and instead push them towards one that opposes the speed limit (Irwins).
Going elsewhere with your business to make your political point is your right and is admirable. Asking others to avoid them because of their political persuasion is also fair, they put themselves in this position knowing of this risk. But if you are trying to besmirch their professional reputation and challenge the quality of their work just because they have a different political stance than yours, that would be underhanded and shameful.
I mainly patronize Fay's when my own marina, Meredith, is too busy or unable to help. I have known Merrill since we were kids and they are all very knowledgeable and helpful. Where else can you go and pick up a used $100 outdrive part for $10? Where else can you get a professional marine mechanic to climb into and listen to your engine, go for a ride, and give you a cause-guess and repair estimate, all for nothing? I "lean" towards the marina's that helped us get the speed limit as my small way of thanking them, but I believe all of the Lake's mechanics are competent and professional and would certainly never stoop to insulting their competence and professionalism over their opinion on something so irrelevant to the two. I really hope that is not what you are doing here.
 
Old 10-12-2009, 07:01 PM   #23
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Default Irwins

I havnt had any experience with Fays ,but i give nothing but praise to Jason and the Irwin crew .
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:44 PM   #24
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BR,
I have to wonder whether Fay's Speed Limit support may be the true cause of your trouble with them. That is fine, but if it is the case you really should have just been honest about it, said it plainly, and posted this in the "anti-SL" threads. I wonder if what you are really trying to accomplish is to dissuade people from patronizing a speed limit supporting marina (Fay's) and instead push them towards one that opposes the speed limit (Irwins).


Why do you feel the need to drag this thread down the path of the speed limit battle? I think BR's intent was to disclose and discuss service related problems. I don't feel this was a pitch to dissuade patrons because of Fay's speed limit support.

As far as my own input to the TOPIC, I have found the sales department at Fay's to have ZERO follow through after multiple attempts to do business with them. I also have found Merrill to be a miserable SOB to deal with. When I first bought my property on the lake, I wanted to use Fay's as my home base but he was adament about only renting to patrons who bought boats from them. I know two people that same season that did not buy boats from him yet were able to rent slips from him. I tried to do what he wanted, I tried to work with the sales department to buy a boat as I was in the market anyhow and the morons simply would not follow through.

The following year I tried to work with them again, this year he stated that he would rent me a slip but quoted me $20 higher a foot than his normal rate because I was not an existing customer. WTF??? I actually considered paying it but then had another issue with him. We have multiple boats being island dwellers and we dont always use the same boat to go back and forth. I informed him that I had 2 boats and would pay for the footage for the larger boat (a whopping 2 feet at that time) since I may have either one there. He would allow this, and told me that he would kick me out and with no refund if he found any boat other than the one listed on my paperwork. So I went elsewhere and have been much happier since without looking back.

I seem to recall an article a while back where they were quoted as having some sort of system installed to capture/remove any gas spills that leak into the lake from their gas dock. If the bottle of Simple Green sprayed into the water by their gas attendants is what this system is comprised of I would not be surprised. I can't imagine DES would approve of this common occurence.

I have other reasons for not dealing with them for more than gas sales, but nothing that needs to be posted publicly. Definitely not speed limit related.

On a mechanical note, a bellows that is not properly hooked up can sink a boat.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:11 PM   #25
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I don't feel this was a pitch to dissuade patrons because of Fay's speed limit support.
You are entitled to feel however you wish. BR admitted he was prejudiced by Fay's SL support and others were also questioning the coherence of and motive for his story. If his motive is SL-related, he should have posted in the anti-SL section.
This has nothing to do with you. Please don't start on me again. If you don't like what I have to say please ignore my posts, as I do with those of yours that are not directed at me (if I was to ever see one).
 
Old 10-12-2009, 09:49 PM   #26
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You are entitled to feel however you wish. BR admitted he was prejudiced by Fay's SL support and others were also questioning the coherence of and motive for his story. If his motive is SL-related, he should have posted in the anti-SL section.
This has nothing to do with you. Please don't start on me again. If you don't like what I have to say please ignore my posts, as I do with those of yours that are not directed at me (if I was to ever see one).
My post was directed towards the topic and was not confrontational towards you. Get over yourself. There is a place for speed limit debate, this is not it. That's all I am saying... Your motives are quite clear.
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