New York's cold weather/small vessel life jacket law

[Seaplane Pilot]

http://maritimeprofessional.com:80/B...in-Effect.aspx

Sounds like a good idea to me. At least some state is recognizing the danger inherent in "small vessels"...

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

http://maritimeprofessional.com:80/B...in-Effect.aspx

Sounds like a good idea to me. At least some state is recognizing the danger inherent in "small vessels"...

SP,

I think this is a great idea. I took my boat out for a very early AM ride on Saturday. As I was letting the engine warm up, I decided that I should throw a vest on for 3 reasons- the water is getting awful cold, I was wearing more clothing than when summer boating, and there was no one out to help if needed.

[rick35]

Well said. I've done the same especially when there's no one around. I hadn't thought about the effect of having more clothes on.

[hazelnut]

Great idea! It is always worrisome, the thought of drowning in near freezing water in the spring and fall. This is a good step in the name of safety on the water.

[LIforrelaxin]

While I agree this is a good idea and I think the law maker in NY did a good thing. The life Jacket in and off itself is not going to save your life in the coldest of months. certainly it keeps you afloat and will help keep the fatigue of trying to stay afloat from killing you. but you still have the issue of hypothermia.

Being in the middle of a big body of cold water in the cold weather, with no one else close by is a very scary thing. My biggest fear with laws like this is that it will give those with out good common sense a false sense of security.

[Cobalt 25]

Last week a fishing boat sank in Cape Cod Bay. 2 crewmembers were in the water for 6 hours in 50 degree water. The ONLY reason they lived to tell about it was because of their survival suits. You hear many fishermen complaining about "regulations" that require them to have safety equipment on board. Do you suppose those guys would complain? Would they have had those survival suits on board if they hadn't been required to? Maybe not...

Which brings us to motorcycle helmet laws in NH. 2 summers ago my son crashed his bike at speed. He's O.K., and if you could see his helmet you would wonder why some folks chose not to wear one. Yeah, yeah, personal freedom, the gum'ment ain't tellin me what to do, etc., etc. But people, especially young people, occasionally make bad decisions. And like it or not, sometimes we have to protect them from themselves. And then the argument, "I'm only hurting myself if I smear my brain matter on the pavement." That seems to ignore the possible reality of long-term health care costs for being disabled, not to mention the heartache of the people who love you.

I, too, support the law requiring cold weather PFD use.

Peter

[ishoot308]

"Which brings us to motorcycle helmet laws in NH. 2 summers ago my son crashed his bike at speed. He's O.K., and if you could see his helmet you would wonder why some folks chose not to wear one. Yeah, yeah, personal freedom, the gum'ment ain't tellin me what to do, etc., etc."

Cobalt;

Not to hijack the thread but...90% of all automobile related deaths in the US are caused by head injury (American Automobile Association). If this is the case and by your logic shouldn't we be required to wear helmets when in a car as well...??

[fatlazyless]

If you was to ask me, I would just have to say:What do you expect from that whacky Democratic State of New York? This is very simply just one of those idiotic solutions that is a-look'n for a problemo that don't exist!

Thankfully, such a wacko law will never get passed here in New Hampshire!

No lifejacket, no problem; no motorcycle helmet, no problem; no seatbelt, no problem.......live free of die!

Besides the water ain't all that cold yet....I still have my little outboard boat in the lake...you see pictures on tv of those crab fisherman running traps in the Bering Sea off the coast of Alaska....if they can do that....then you can boat Winnipesaukee in November....could be a good time to get on the broads with those twin big-block V-8's and go wide-open throttle....no one to bother out there...live freeze or die!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

Last week a fishing boat sank in Cape Cod Bay. 2 crewmembers were in the water for 6 hours in 50 degree water. The ONLY reason they lived to tell about it was because of their survival suits.

Survival suits are exactly why I feel that yes this law is good because it make people put on life jackets which buys them some more time. But the key to surviving in cold weather and water is actually survival suits. Hence someone lacking common sense could be lulled into a false sense of security thinking that by wearing just his life jacket and complying with the law he is protecting himself.

[Cobalt 25]

ishoot,

There's lots of other similar arguments out there like the car analogy- alcohol causes many motor vehicle deaths, ban alcohol, cancer and cigarettes, etc. To me they are just distractions. The issue here is helmets and motorcycles.

I'm a life member of the American Motorcyclist Association and have been riding since the late sixties. Having raced at Loudon and Daytona and a lot more places, I know a little about motorcycling. It is my opinion that it makes sense to wear a helmet. Few would argue that it's safer NOT to wear a helmet. And I get back to my original point- sometimes we have to protect the uninformed and somewhat irrational from themselves. My son would quite possibly be dead or in a vegetative state right now if MA did not have a helmet law.

What's more important, being able to say I can "live free or die" or have my son?

The same applies to boating safety laws.

[Phantom]

Well I don't know about NH, but Mass has had a long standing regulation that between Labor Day & Memorial Day anyone in a non motorized craft (canoe, rowboat, Kyak, etc) must WEAR a life jacket. Unlike this new NY law it doesn't include powercraft.

Again, here I think the consideration is the size of the available bodies of water. There is nothing even close to Winni (or Winnisquam for that matter) down here. The majority of the boats in the water after Cloumbus Day are eithor fisherman (powerboats) or canoes & Kyaks

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by FLL

...just a solution that's look'n for a problem!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you was to ask me, I would just have to say:What do you expect from that whacky Democratic State of New York? This is very simply just one of those idiotic solutions that is a-look'n for a problemo that don't exist!

Thankfully, such a wacko law will never get passed here in New Hampshire!

No lifejacket, no problem; no motorcycle helmet, no problem; no seatbelt, no problem.......live free of die!

Besides the water ain't all that cold yet....I still have my little outboard boat in the lake...you see pictures on tv of those crab fisherman running traps in the Bering Sea off the coast of Alaska....if they can do that....then you can boat Winnipesaukee in November....could be a good time to get on the broads with those twin big-block V-8's and go wide-open throttle....no one to bother out there...live freeze or die!

Actually FLL Winnipesaukee is now cold enough to be an issue. According to the Winnipesaukee.Com website the water temperature this week has been 51 and 50
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/tempcal/index.cgi

So according to the chart below from Boatsafe.com you would probably lose consciousness within an hour and die within 3 hours. Given the lack of boating traffic on the lake this time of year it is not unreasonable to think that if you are in a canoe or kayak and go into the water without some kind of survival gear you are in real trouble because you could easily wait hours to be rescued!

Hypothermia Chart
If the Water
Temp. (F) is:/ Exhaustion orUnconsciousness / Expected Time of Survival is:
32.5/ Under 15 min./ Under 15 - 45 min.
32.5 -40/ 15 - 30 min./ 30 - 90 min
40 - 50/ 30 - 60 min./ 1 - 3 hours
50 - 60/ 1 - 2 hours/ 1 - 6 hours
60 - 70/ 2 - 7 hours/ 2 - 40 hours
70 - 80/ 3 - 12 hours/ 3 - Indefinite
Over 80/ Indefinite/ Indefinite
http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hypothermia.htm

Now I'm not saying there should be legislation, but I am pointing out the foolishness of going out on the water in cold weather without cold weather gear!

[Pineedles]

Laws are fine, but more lives have been saved by common sense than any law.
November 7th, 2009
The Great Sage of the 21st Century
Pineedles

[NoRegrets]

Hats off to the great sage of the 21st century! No man made law can supersede the laws made by Mother Nature! Common sense is the fear that should keep us from becoming statistics....

[fatlazyless]

Typically, when you fall out of a kayak or small sailboat into 50 degree water, you automatically climb up onto the swamped boat to get out of the cold water. Ditto for a motorboat, assuming you were wearing the safety lanyard.
...............

In New Hampshire, people younger than 16 are required to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle but not when riding on a motorcycle.

If you ever fell off a bicycle and smacked your head against the curb, while wearing a helmet as I have, you'll definately wear a helmet in the future.

Any chance there's a NH legislator reading this who could submit a bill to address this situation?

[Kamper]

A major advatange to a life-jacket is that it will hold your head above water. When you hit very cold water most people 'gasp' and draw water into their lungs. Trying to expel that water by coughing while simultaneously trying to stay afloat and struggling to get back in the boat often proves to be too much for people.

To help fight this reflex, try to put a hand over your moth and nose if you fall overboard.

Also, muscles frequently cramp when shocked by cold. A PFD will keep you up so (hopefully) a rescuer can pull you in.

Good luck!

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Typically, when you fall out of a kayak or small sailboat into 50 degree water, you automatically climb up onto the swamped boat to get out of the cold water. Ditto for a motorboat, assuming you were wearing the safety lanyard.
...............

In New Hampshire, people younger than 16 are required to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle but not when riding on a motorcycle.

If you ever fell off a bicycle and smacked your head against the curb, while wearing a helmet as I have, you'll definately wear a helmet in the future.

Any chance there's a NH legislator reading this who could submit a bill to address this situation?

FLL, I hope you got a new helmet after hitting your head with the one you were wearing. It will not be any good after a single impact or if the seam tape has become worn or damaged, but you are 100% correct about wearing a helmet when bicycling.

Transporting a child/minor on a motorcycle without them wearing a helmet is, well, stupid.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

In New Hampshire, people younger than 16 are required to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle but not when riding on a motorcycle.
Any chance there's a NH legislator reading this who could submit a bill to address this situation?

I'm pretty sure anybody under 18 must wear a helmet on a motorcycle.

[ApS]

A reminder: respected sources I've read...state—if in cold water—to keep your winter clothes on!

To "That 'Great Sage' of the 21st Century"...

1) New York's cold weather/small vessel life jacket law has some great irony to us on Lake Winnipesaukee: it specifically applies to small vessels that—when breached—are required by law to remain afloat!

I'm sure forum member Cobalt 25 recalls the Winnipesaukee incident from last season when a boat larger than 21' sank to the bottom!

2) When it comes to law making, I'm sure we all know that "common sense" isn't common—at all! If opponents of any equivalent New Hampshire law had their way, the only bill that could pass the legislature would read:

"All operators of vessels smaller than 21-feet on New Hampshire waters between November and April—under penalty of summons and fine—shall be required to use common sense."

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

A reminder: respected sources I've read...state—if in cold water—to keep your winter clothes on!

To "That 'Great Sage' of the 21st Century"...

1) New York's cold weather/small vessel life jacket law has some great irony to us on Lake Winnipesaukee: it specifically applies to small vessels that—when breached—are required by law to remain afloat!

I'm sure forum member Cobalt 25 recalls the Winnipesaukee incident from last season when a boat larger than 21' sank to the bottom!

2) When it comes to law making, I'm sure we all know that "common sense" isn't common—at all! If opponents of any equivalent New Hampshire law had their way, the only bill that could pass the legislature would read:

The first few deaths on Winni this season happened early on, and they drowned when their small boats capsized. Two of the men in early May were not wearing PFD's in 47 degree water.

I have long known about the federal requirements for flotation in smaller boats. The only problem with the thread about that boat sinking was it's entire content. It wasn't the boat's fault, nor the manufacturer that that boat sank. I wish you wouldn't dismiss common sense with such reckless abandon APS.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

A reminder: respected sources I've read...state—if in cold water—to keep your winter clothes on!

To "That 'Great Sage' of the 21st Century"...

1) New York's cold weather/small vessel life jacket law has some great irony to us on Lake Winnipesaukee: it specifically applies to small vessels that—when breached—are required by law to remain afloat!

I'm sure forum member Cobalt 25 recalls the Winnipesaukee incident from last season when a boat larger than 21' sank to the bottom!

2) When it comes to law making, I'm sure we all know that "common sense" isn't common—at all! If opponents of any equivalent New Hampshire law had their way, the only bill that could pass the legislature would read:



"All operators of vessels smaller than 21-feet on New Hampshire waters between November and April—under penalty of summons and fine—shall be required to use common sense."

If it were that easy we could make your law stand year round and not need any other boating rules or laws.

[SIKSUKR]

And if proponants of any equivalent NH law had their way the bill would read:
"All operators of any vessels have no comman sense and we the great saviors will legislate you on every little tidbit of how to become like us.

[gtxrider]

Originally Posted by Kamper

A major advatange to a life-jacket is that it will hold your head above water. When you hit very cold water most people 'gasp' and draw water into their lungs. Trying to expel that water by coughing while simultaneously trying to stay afloat and struggling to get back in the boat often proves to be too much for people.

To help fight this reflex, try to put a hand over your moth and nose if you fall overboard.

Also, muscles frequently cramp when shocked by cold. A PFD will keep you up so (hopefully) a rescuer can pull you in.

Good luck!

They put seat belts in cars so the paramedics can find the body. The same for PFD in COLD WATER the, this reduces the need for divers to recover drowned boaters.

How long can a person survive in 40 degree water?

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by gtxrider

... How long can a person survive in 40 degree water?

http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_...es/hypothermia

Cold Water Temperatures Decrease Time Before Exhaustion and Decrease Survial Time

Water................Epected Time Before Exhaustion...Expected Time
Temperature (F)..or Unconsciousness....................Survival

32.5°............... < 15 minutes............................ 45 minutes
32.5° – 40°....... 15 – 30 minutes....................... 30 – 90 minutes
40° – 50° .......... 30 – 60 minutes .................... . 1 – 3 hours
50° – 60° .......... 1 – 2 hours ........................... . 1 – 6 hours
60° – 70° .......... 2 – 7 hours ............................. 2 – 40 hours
70° – 80°........... 3 – 12 hours............................ 3 hours – indefinite
> 80°................ indefinite................................. indefinite

---------

You forgot one. Motorcyclists wear helmets to make it easier to pick up their heads.