Some Ossipee snowmobile trails closed??

[Lakegeezer]

I heard that while route 15 will still be open, several of the off-shoot snowmobile trails in the Ossipee mountains (Castle trails) will be closed to snowmobiles this winter. Can anyone confirm that?

[HUH]

Anyone here anything on this .. Can you still get up mount shaw etc .. What happened to the Moultonborough sno club ?? Lots of no trespassing signs on rt. 109 around the castle prop.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I know the Moultonborough trail master, I will give him a call.

[MAXUM]

It would be nice to know for sure. There is no mention of it on the NHSA web site which if it were a done deal I'd expect to see some mention of it there. I'd be real interested in knowing who and why the trails were closed if it turns out to be true.

[islandAl]

unfortunately. the LRCT has closed all trails to snowmobiling except corridor 15 (and maybe 15A) and Shaw overlook. All the rest are reserved for cc skiing and snowshoeing.

[Island Girl]

If this is true snowobilers should start a letter campaign to LRCT. We contributed to keep the area undeveloped, not to turn off recreational use to some users.

Is this in writing somewhere and to whom do we write?

[KPW]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

If this is true snowobilers should start a letter campaign to LRCT. We contributed to keep the area undeveloped, not to turn off recreational use to some users.

Is this in writing somewhere and to whom do we write?

I think a basic route would be good!

[Lakegeezer]

I know that the Lakes Region Conservation Trust http://www.lrct.org/ has seen their last contribution from me unless they change their minds. Keeping route 15 open is good - but some of the best trails are the ones off of 15. They are less crowded, and not so much a highway. The same organization owns Red Hill. Hopefully their attitude won't spread there. The real shame is that there was no notification from them. No public discussion, or even a discussion among those that donated to keep the Ossipees from being developed. I have sent email to them twice, and got no reply. Without the grooming of the "off 15" trails, it is unlikely that more than a small handfull of people will get to enjoy the trails of the Ossipees in the Winter. It just urks me that I contributed a lot of money to help close my favorite snowmobile trails.

[HUH]

Nor reply from LRCT or moultonborough snomo club ! Anyone have anything

[HUH]

I just got an email from the president of the Moultonborough snomobile club..
No trails on Castle proprty except corridor 15 to white lake state park .. The tree huggers win again .. Very sad to hear .. Shaw mt was one of my favorite local rides .. Oh well there will be at least 2 or 3 sno shoers that will enjoy it all to themselves for one day maybe two ..

[HUH]

Lakes region Conservation trust has closed the Castle in the clouds property to snomobiles.. I dont think they realize what a large part of local culture snomobiling is , not to mention its suppert of the local economy .. I dont believe that they would have gotten the funding they did to buy the property had they revealed thier ultimate goal for the property.. Tree Hugging !!
How many people do they think will, or are capable of snoshoeing to the top of Mt Shaw in Febuary..
Please dont give them another Nickle

[Island Girl]

Start writing to LRCT and tell all of your friends to write
...write your legislators. They only win if you let them.

[Senter Cove Guy]

I also had written to the president of the Moultonboro Snowmobile Club asking him what could be done to retract the trail closings. He suggested writing to the Union Leader. No voice is no action. It's time to start writing:

The email address for letters to the editor of the Union leader is:

letters@theunionleader.com

You can find the "rules" for letter writing at:

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=15747

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I think that the collective voice of the states snowmobilers should be heard. I wonder if the NHSA knows about this? It is bad enough that we lose trails to development, then an organization pretends to save an area from development only to close it to snowmobiles... That is wrong!

[WeirsBeachBoater]

As of now there is going to be one trail only. Corridor 15 will be the only trail open. Supposedly the trust is putting a gag order on the state about this trail closure. It's time for someone to drop a dime to the newspapers!

[HUH]

LRCT is very vague about what they will do with the land leading up to the purchase ..Im sure there are many donators that had no idea this kind of shutdown to the public would take place ..

[Seaplane Pilot]

I think the majority of snowmobilers in NH probably belong to the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association, since membership in NHSA allows a reduced rate now on the cost of a sled registration. I'm sure that they are already aware of the trail closings by LRCT, but it would not hurt to contact them and express your concerns. Following is the contact information taken off of the NHSA website www.nhsa.com

Contact NHSA Office


603-224-8906

603-226-3880

NHSAOffice@nhsa.com

722 Route 3A
Suite 14
Bow, NH 03304

Executive Director:

Gail Hanson
email: execdir@nhsa.com

Office Manager: Irene Russell
email: NHSAOffice@nhsa.com

[HUH]

Good info seaplane ..I already sent them a letter .. And yes you get a somewhat reduced rate when you register. Remember you either join a local club or $30 at the time of registration goes to the grant in aid program (federal funds for trail maintenance) of which LRCT will not get any assistance.. Good luck with them finding volunteers to maintain the trails to the level they have been..

[WeirsBeachBoater]

He said that people should call Paul Gray at the Bureau of Trails in Concord. It is not right that the LRCT misled snowmobilers to get our money then shut us out!!! I hate to say it but this is a tree hugger move!!! I know I will do what I can to tell everyone about this!

[BroadHopper]

I hear that the state cut a snowmobile trail through Crawford Notch. The AMC put out a court order and the state has to fence it off. Any truth to this rumour?

[mcdude]

Click here for article

[HUH]

Intersting article ..
Well I have to go put extra picks in my snomobile track now as Im real anxcious to grind up the flora and scare away all the fawna !!

[Tired of Waiting]

I'm not into snowmobiles but the count for views on this thred was 666, just could not let that stay.

Be safe.

ToW

[HUH]

Yur not superstisious now are ya ?

[HUH]

Dont know if anyone else has tried but I havn't recieved any reply from LRCT..
They seem to have selective response..If you have some money to donate their real friendly..If you want clarifacation on thier policies/ goals you get nothing..

[Island-Ho]

I for one am glad to see that LRCT has set aside a few of the lesser used trails to be used by those of us who don't enjoy hearing a racing sled bearing down on us around a blind corner, forcing us to take cover behind the nearest tree. If LRCT had not bought the property and stopped the development of the slopes, even route 15 would be closed eventually. Your contributions did go to a good cause for all of us.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I think the point is that snowmobilers that donated to this purchase feel they were convienently misled. Also watch how you paint all snowmobilers with that broad brush you are swinging around. I could go on with stories about xc skiers and snowshoe people. I have spent many hours in the seat of a Trail Groomer I have plenty of stories!!! Not all snowmobilers are loud and racers!!!

[JDeere]

I thought that snowmobile trails were only for snowmobiles and other uses were not legal. People XC skiing etc should not be on the trails that are for the sleds

I am sure someone (SKIP) can confirm this or maybe I am wrong but I do not think so.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

The snowmobile trails can be used by snoshoers, xc skiers, snowmobiles. Typically some trails do not allow Wheeled vehicles, such as four wheelers. See, the snowmobilers are willing to share their trails......enough said.

[upthesaukee]

As one who has been told by officials from a couple of snowmobile clubs that it is indeed permissible to use the trails to snowshoe or cross country ski, I also know I can hear the sleds coming and it is far easier for me to step off the trail and allow the sleds to pass unimpeded.


We are also going slow enough to stop and move branches, tree limbs and other debris from the trails. In the event of a tree falling down across the trail, I will contact our local club so that someone can be dispatched out to clear the trail safely.


Trails can be used jointly, it just needs to be done safely. In joint use areas, sleds need to slow down, and those on foot or skis need to be defensive and yield to the sleds. Be defensive on the trails, protect yourself, be friendly (remember the "what happened to the wave to another boater? thread"????), and ENJOY!!!!.

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Island-Ho

I for one am glad to see that LRCT has set aside a few of the lesser used trails to be used by those of us who don't enjoy hearing a racing sled bearing down on us around a blind corner, forcing us to take cover behind the nearest tree. If LRCT had not bought the property and stopped the development of the slopes, even route 15 would be closed eventually. Your contributions did go to a good cause for all of us.

Well ..no .. not all of us ..
Youll hear the empty beer cans spewing out from my storage compartment and littering the old growth forest, long before you hear the roar of my "RACING SLED"

[GWC...]

Sounds like the LRCT likes P.T.Barnum's old saying about a sucker being born...

Are you people gullible; or are you people gullible.

Sounds like the LRCT played you like a fine tuned piano for your donations.

But think about all the tree huggers you have made happy.

Remember: 'Tis the season...

[GWC...]

Says it all…

"...together with the AMC recreation study, will be the basis for the management plan for these remarkable lands," states Curren."

[WeirsBeachBoater]

We owe a debt of gratitude to everyone who stepped forward to save this land for public access," states Trust president Thomas Curren.

Translated: Thanks for the money suckers, Now we will decide what the definition of public is.

Public: Any tree hugger, or conservationist, as long as they do not come by snowmobile.

I usually stay out of these types of threads but this one really irratates me

[Smith Point]

I just sent LRCT and NHSA a nasty letter

[HUH]

"We are in the process of completing a two-year bioinventory on the property, identifying all wildlife on the land. That information, together with the AMC recreation study, will be the basis for the management plan for these remarkable lands,"

There are currently 320000 squirrels
960 Deer
4 million pine trees

"AND NO PEOPLE"
ON THE CASTLE PROPERTY

[PROPELLER]

I try not to take sides because I recognize the need for preservation of land & to balance that with public use. However, what ticks me off (and this is one example) the AMC built a large elaborate what I believe they call "Hostel" in Crawford Notch. If anyone else tried to do that the AMC would have been the first ones to stop it. In my opinion its hideous looking when you drive through what I believe the most beautiful notch in NH & this large "Hostel" just looms up in front of you. To me it ruins the aesthetics of the area, it takes away from the pristine feel of the notch. Not to mention the traffic it may bring to the area. These are just a few of the arguments the AMC & other groups have used in the past when they are trying to stop something. Seems very hypocritical to me.

Why don't those tree hugging AMC'ers just sleep in the woods! I thought thats what they were all about. Why do they need this elaborate hotel?

[BroadHopper]

I agree with Propeller. That 'hostel' is a little out of character of the AMC I knew. I love the old basic 'hostel'. When I saw how elaborate this one was, I and countless others cease membership. I notice they are getting too political and say this but they do that. I would join another club that is conservative.

[Smith Point]

I just got a reply from the NHSAThe nasty letter that I wrote was not aimed at the NHSA but I thought they should about it anyway.

I am sorry you have some misinformation. I am also sorry you feel that the trails in New Hampshire are not up to your expectations. Our trail system in New Hampshire is comprised volunteer maintained trails over private and public lands. We build and maintain these trails by active club members throughout the state. When a trail is in jeopardy of being closed by the private landowner we, the members of the local club where the trail is located, work very hard with the landowner to overcome his objections to keepng an active trail open. The land you mentioned in your email to the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association, is owned by a private concern known as the "Lakes Region Conservation Trust". They are the people you should be venting your concerns. When they were raising money to purchase the "Castle in the Clouds" property they solicitated donations from the local snowmobile clubs. Donations were sent with the expectation that the trails would be kept open to snowmobiling. We, the surrounding clubs, are as unhappy as you are. Good constructive criticism of their practices should be sent along to the landowners. As long as we are at the mercy of private landowners we will have to work hard to keep them involved in our sport. Again, I am sorry you feel the way you do about New Hampshire trails system. It is comprised of many dedicated volunteers from 115 clubs across the state trying to work with Mother Nature gives us for snow. The trails are open to all snowmobilers registered in the state. The action of the State Legislature in the recent past was to have everyone that registers a snowmobile join a club. The intent of this was to help build the volunteer base and spread out the work load of trail maintenance. Our work is time consuming and unpaid. Thanks for your criticism of our hard work. We will work harder, to attempt, to please more people like you in the future. Signed, Tom Hughes, President Sno-streakersInc. Meredith, N.H. and Vice -President New Hampshire Snowmobile Association

[HUH]

He doesnt sound too thrilled with your letter ... They seem very aware that LRCT solicited money from snomobile clubs only to turn around and close the area to sleds.. I wonder if there is grounds for legal action on the clubs part..

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Has anyone talked to a media outlet about this story??? I think it would make a great topic, maybe for the Sunday paper so that all the tourists can see what these "conservationists" are doing to the travel and tourism industry.

[HUH]

Ive written letters to several papers, nhsa, snomobile mags, lrct..
It cant hurt ..start writing
The squeaky wheel gets the grease ! Let LRCT know how displeased you are with what they have done ...

[mcdude]

This editorial has appeared in the 12/2/04 edition of the Granite State News (Grunter) in Wolfeboro.

Other Voices
Snowmobilers want to see the land too
By MICHAEL HIGGINS
Gilford
Recently an organization by the name of Lakes Region Conservation Trust has acquired 5,400 acres in Moultonborough known as the Castle In the Clouds property. This organization touted as conservation minded non-profit group has led a campaign to acquire the property after it became available in 2001.
The tax liability of this property had put it out of reach for most individuals. And, as the property would be a prime area for development, residents of New Hampshire, especially of the Lakes Region, rejoiced at the idea of conserving such a wonderful peace of land. LRCT was able to acquire the funds to purchase the property through donations and purchased the property in January of 2004.
Many locals were excited to see this area preserved for generations to come.
Unfortunately this ultra conservative group has managed to shut the gate on a large part of the local culture, “snowmobilers.”
We all want to see these beautiful areas preserved, but in the same sense we want to “SEE” these areas.
There are few people who are capable of snowshoeing or cross-country skiing to the top of Mt. Shaw on snow covered trails.
The same idea was attempted in Yellowstone National Park. Only to be reversed, as it had a detrimental effect on the local economy. Conclusive studies showed no detrimental effects on the land or wildlife.
During LRCT’s campaign to raise funds for the purchase the property, its ultimate goal to close trails to snowmobiles was never mentioned. The Moultonborough snowmobile club has done a fine job for many years marking and maintaining the loop trails onto the property.
Now in an effort to protect the land for the people, LRCT has managed to keep the land from the people.
The opinions expressed in Other Voices do not reflect the views of the Granite State News.
Click for link

[HUH]

Hmm didnt know they would print my name..

[madrasahs]

Here's trying to put some sense into Ossipee trails.

First, some snowmobilers at the Forum have complained about snowmobile noise, and how it would result in restrictions. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...?p=207#post207

Now there are restrictions enacted this past Friday in Canada, by Quebeçois:

ST-JOVITE, QUE. - In a decision that could cause ripples across Canada's winter tourism industry, a judge in Quebec has ruled that people living near a snowmobile trail in the Laurentians should be compensated because of noise levels.

Calling themselves the Coalition for the Protection of the Environment of the Petit Train du Nord Linear Park, about 600 residents took the province, Laurentians municipal government and snowmobile clubs to court when the trail was approved seven years ago.

They filed a class-action lawsuit, arguing the snowmobiles were a source of noise pollution that affected their health.

Entire news story at: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...bec041203.html

I've read that most Quebec snowmobilers are American visitors, followed by European snowmobile renters, then Quebekers.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

It is an ongoing battle to protect our snowmobile trails. I understand the gripe with the loud sleds, there is no real good reason for them on the trails. Keep the noise for the race tracks. I am not preaching, I myself in my younger days had those louds pipes, but now would prefer to run rather quiet and undetected. I like going out for a late night run and I don't want to wake those people who are nice enough to let us pass over their land. Its a full time job trying to save this sport....

[Pepper]

For a number of years we lived in the Northern Heights complex on 11B. Directly behind our unit was a snowmobile trail. On winter evenings we would build a fire in the fireplace and sit on the couch facing the sliding glass doors overlooking the trail. All the lights off, and just the fireplace for illumination. We absolutely loved watching the snowmobile lights winding over the hills and curves of the trail right in front of us. Of the hundreds of snowmobiles we watched travel behind us, only a very few were ever audible. This added to the overall experience, making it somewhat mystical - silent lights in the night, if you will. Of those that did have loud or excessively whiny engines - those were the ones that usually raced up and down the edge of 11B like maniacs, and a few were ticketed by the PD for their infractions. The point of my post is this: the vast majority of the snowmobilers are law-abiding, outdoors loving, peaceful travelers. It is the very few that give a bad name to the many - just as it is with most things (like motorcycles for instance). I sincerely hope that a resolution to the trail issue in Ossippee, and in Canada, can be found. I would hate to see so many loose their opportunity to enjoy mother nature in their favorite way!

[HUH]

There are NO homes on the castle property ! This was a land grab !
Another "Legacy" ya a legacy of shutting people out ...

[BroadHopper]

I would think everyone who is not happy with LRCT should get ask for their money back! Hit them in the pockets!

[MAXUM]

I have it on good information that the NHSA is in discussion with the powers that be concerning this whole mess however they (NHSA) is under a gag order to not release any details at the moment. So I have no idea what is being talked about, but it's good to hear that discussions are underway. Hopefully we all will be happy with the results.

[HUH]

Hopefully they can work it out.. It seems it would be win win if they allowed some access..

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Why don't we all load up our sleds and meet in the LRCT parking lot...lol

[HUH]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

Why don't we all load up our sleds and meet in the LRCT parking lot...lol

Im in ..no trailer though..

[fatlazyless]

Everyone knows about the Waterville Valley snowboard and ski area. What nobody seems to use any more is the WV cross country ski area. It has 105 kilometers of trails on beginner, intermediate and challenging terrain and a small Bombardier diesel powered $80k xc trail grooming vehicle. On the Forest Service sign on Route 49 on the way to WV, it says 'no snowmobile trails available in WV.' For all you city people who don't want to share their xc trail with any flourescent green, 100mph, two-stroke smelly oil, high pitched whiney, high revvin sno-mos, the 105 km of WV xc trails are basically, always totally empty. It ain't like the old days when Tom Corcoran was running WV from 1965-1993. How do you say the xc trails here are very quiet?

[HUH]

I have never once heard a snowmobiler say they did not want to share the trails with xc or snowshoers ..And for the most part the groomed interconnecting trail system in new hampshire exist due to the efforts of snomobile clubs and there members.. The bridges over the brooks , clearing of the downed limbs etc is all done by snowmobilers ..Now there is federal money available to maintain these trails also (grant in aid ) because of snomobilers ..
The only thing you ever hear from the xc skiiers and snowshoers is that they want to share the trails

[fatlazyless]

Like, think about it, if you are beating your lungs out, trying to get up some steep snowy trail on xc skis; does anyone want to share that w/ a noisey, stinky, speedy sno-mobile? Plus, most all sno-mos are still the two-stroke type so they leave behind their stinky oiley odor. Do walkers want share their sidewalk with a car or a truck? Do swimmers want to share their lake with a big fast boat? I think that George Bush is really a closet tree-hugger so won't all you Snow-Mo Bush voters be in for a big surprise when W comes out of his closet, sees the light, and totally bans two-stroke engines from the world. The next war will be US vs. Two-Stroke engines, just like in California.

[HUH]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Like, think about it, if you are beating your lungs out, trying to get up some steep snowy trail on xc skis; does anyone want to share that w/ a noisey, stinky, speedy sno-mobile? Plus, most all sno-mos are still the two-stroke type so they leave behind their stinky oiley odor. Do walkers want share their sidewalk with a car or a truck? Do swimmers want to share their lake with a big fast boat? I think that George Bush is really a closet tree-hugger so won't all you Snow-Mo Bush voters be in for a big surprise when W comes out of his closet, sees the light, and totally bans two-stroke engines from the world. The next war will be US vs. Two-Stroke engines, just like in California.

Well said ...

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by HUH

There are NO homes on the castle property ! This was a land grab !
Another "Legacy" ya a legacy of shutting people out ...

Take a drive down 171 sometime. The homes -- such as they are -- are going in.

It's good lake- (and land-) management to keep bulldozers out of the Winnipesaukee Basin area.

I contribute $100 each year to LRCT, fully expecting no Entitlements.

[HUH]

Originally Posted by madrasahs

Take a drive down 171 sometime. The homes -- such as they are -- are going in.

It's good lake- (and land-) management to keep bulldozers out of the Winnipesaukee Basin area.

I contribute $100 each year to LRCT, fully expecting no Entitlements.

No you cant stop progress ..And yes its nice to see some land kept undeveloped around the lake.
Snowmobiles are a recreational vehicle not a bulldozer
Its bad management to lose their patronage to the area..

[Tyler]

It is bad management to not allow snow mobile activity in this recently purchased land tract by the LRCT. I also contribute yearly to their cause, this will make me reconsider future funding if not resolved in favor of the snow mobile folks.

[Misty Blue]

I spend a lot of time in the woods. Usually with a backpack on my back. Some of the best hiking around is on the SNOW MOBILE TRAILS! Thanks groomers.

I have donated to LRCT for years. I helped to save Five Mile Island, Red Hill and Castle in the Clouds. Saved from what? Development? All human activity?

The decision to close the CC lands to snowmobilers must have been made by a small group within the LRCT who had a personal adgenda. Well the LRCT is not a few decision makers. It is members. Members who donate. Well I'm voting with my feet and they have seen the last dime from me.

Let's hit 'em in the wallet.

Misty Blue

[Skip]

From this morning's Union Leader, interesting reading.....things may not be anywhere near as bad as suspected;

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=48067

[madrasahs]

But...but...

"IT'S A LAND GRAB!"

I saw it on the Internet!

[WINNOCTURN]

the article is out in todays union leader.

to maxum who is your inside source at nhsa? they have had no involement in the negociations. read on and you will see what i was told by nhsa. ask for sargent shultz. i know nathing!!!!!

not responcable for spelling or gramatical errors (no spell checker).

geezer,

my name is george higgins. i have been trying since 10-09-04 to get an answer to the castle trails situation. no one will talk. lrct has asked for a "gag" order between them and ohrv. nhsa is not involved in any of the negociations. i have sent out over 30 e-mails in the past 6 weeks with only 2 replys. there is an artical coming out in tomorrows union leader by carol carter wich i have contributed to. i am inserting some of the e-mails i have sent to give you a picture of what i have run up against.

i wish i had known about this forun earlier. i just signed up and do not have posting privilages. could you post this for me.

george


to lrct

to: lrct@metrocast.net

gentlemen,

can you tell me if snow shoeing and cross country skiing will be available in the castle in the clouds? we really enjoyed the hiking trails that were open this summer.

thanks,

#1

gentlemen,

i have been trying for a month and a half to get the "truth" about the castle trails for this upcoming season. i presume your aware of the stories floating around about lrct closing all but the corridor trail "15" over the castle and opening the remainder of the trails to "snowshoeing and cross country skiing". i have sent out numerous e-mails to every body in nhsa, ohrv, fish and game and lrct with only two replies. one from lucy ford who told me to contact gail hanson at nsha and major tim acerno from fish&game who replied the f&s does not get involved in trail acquisitions, only law enforcement.

nhsa has been asked by ohrv not comment on the issue. gail's answer today was we don't know nuthin. maybe she (nsha) should! i also talked to ohrv, gail sowles, who would only say they were in negotiations with lrct and had agreed not speak (gag order) of the issue.

another issue that has not been mentioned is the castle parking lot being available to connect to the wolfeboro power line trail or to be able to park an unload there.

in my e-mails to nhsa cris runnals and tom willand were included twice, still waiting to hear from either of them.

there was a letter to the editor in last weeks meredith new with regards to closing the castle trails. i have been contacted by the union leader and have relayed my experiences with this situation.

there is more but this should give the basic idea of what is happening.


thanks for listening,


george higgins

member moultonboro smc

#2
jeff balch

i sent out an e-mail on 11-22-04 to multiple groups and individual questioning the status of the castle in the clouds trails this coming season. to data i have received only one reply, major tim acerno. there is a story out there that the lakes regional conservation trust is only going to open up corridor 15 and all other trials would be used for snowshoeing and cross country skiing. the worst part of this story is that the lrct has placed a "gag" order on every one involved so as to avoid any adverse publicity. nhsa seams to be avoiding this issue. i asked for a correct e-mail address for chris runnels on the 22nd and have yet to get a reply from them. i did get it out of the snow traveler.

can some one tell me what is going on.

thanks,

george higgins

#3
original message -----
from: george higgins
to: crunnals@wmconnect.com ; jb.balch@valley.net ; execdir@nhsa.com ; reg2@nhfgd.org
cc: lflemoine@msn.com ; nhtrails@dred.state.nh.us ; cabanas@worldpath.net ; lrs@jackwilleys.com ; prwent1320@aolcom ; ljpolk@juno.com ; info@wildlife.state.nh.us
sent: monday, november 22, 2004 4:14 pm
subject: castle trail situation?????????????????????


gentlemen,

i hope this e-mail is not too confusing. we have been trying to get the full and accurate story about the trail status of the castle in the clouds. the local clubs have worked hard in the past to maintain these trails. the castle has become a "destination" ride for many snowmobilers every year. it adds to the economy of the area. if it is now relegated to just passage way between tamworth and moultonboro all this will be lost.

i am hearing some very disturbing comments with regards to the lrct wanting every thin hushed up about this situation. i thing this bothers me the most. as for keeping it quite, i doubt that will happen. i think it would be better if we knew the "truth" about the situation before things get out of hand.

another key point is will the parking lot be open to snowmobiles? this is an access point to the castle trails, wolfeboro trials and the moultonboro trails.

right now i would suspect there may be some mis-information out there. just looking for an honest answer.

thanks for listening,

george higgins


below is some recent correspondence i have sent out.

questions ask of both nhsa and fish & game

fish&game question

----- original message -----
from: george higgins
to: nhtrails@dred.state.nh.us
sent: tuesday, november 09, 2004 4:43 pm
subject: castle in the clouds trail closings

gentlemen,

do you have any information as to the lakes regional conservation trust closing all but corridor 15 over the castle between moultonboro and tamworth. there are several ugly stories going around already. one being fish and game is being "gagged" by "lrct" not to make this public in order to avoid adverse publicity over this mater. i talked to "nsha" yesterday and got the distinct impression they were avoiding issue.

george higgins

nhsa question

from: "george higgins"
to:
cc:
subject: fw: castle in the clouds trail closings
date: tuesday, november 09, 2004 4:55 pm

gail hanson

can you tell me what nhsa position is in this matter?

thank you.


----- original message -----
from: george higgins
to: nhtrails@dred.state.nh.us
sent: tuesday, november 09, 2004 4:43 pm
subject: castle in the clouds trail closings


gentlemen,

do you have any information as to the lakes regional conservation trust closing all but corridor 15 over the castle between moultonboro and tamworth. there are several ugly stories going around already. one being fish and game is being "gagged" by "lrct" not to make this public in order to avoid adverse publicity over this mater. i talked to "nsha" yesterday and got the distinct impression they were avoiding issue.

george higgins


reply fish&game

from: "margaret morrison"
to: "george higgins"
subject: re: castle in the clouds trail closings
date: monday, november 15, 2004 2:35 pm



as soon as the chief returns from vacation we can answer you. at the moment i have no info.

-----original message-----
from: george higgins [mailto:ghiggins@durhamcompany.com]
sent: monday, november 15, 2004 1:31 pm
to: margaret morrison
subject: fw: castle in the clouds trail closings


still waiting for comment?


----- original message -----
from: george higgins
to: nhtrails@dred.state.nh.us
sent: tuesday, november 09, 2004 4:43 pm
subject: castle in the clouds trail closings

gentlemen,

do you have any information as to the lakes regional conservation trust closing all but corridor 15 over the castle between moultonboro and tamworth. there are several ugly stories going around already. one being fish and game is being "gagged" by "lrct" not to make this public in order to avoid adverse publicity over this mater. i talked to "nsha" yesterday and got the distinct impression they were avoiding issue.

george higgins








reply from lucy ford, nhsa

from: "dennis and lucy ford"
to:
cc: "gail hanson"
subject: castle
date: wednesday, november 10, 2004 8:40 pm



george,
the bot is working with the castle to come up with the trails that will be
used for this year, to date i don't think that they have finalized anything.
when you called the nhsa who did you speech with? if you have more interest
or comments please call and talk with gail hanson our ex director.
thanks
lucy ford
president
nhsa

[MAXUM]

I cannot reveal any names here, but what I can say is that the response that I got falls along the same lines you are getting, which is any conversations being conducted are subject to this "gag" order. I figured this to be something imposed by some legal stipulation or there was some impending court battle going on. Either way it was my understanding that the NHSA is aware of what is going on an I got the impression that some folks there were at least in the know, but what thier direct involvement is in the whole mess is again an unknown factor. It's my bad for assuming that they were directly involved, although I find that really hard to believe, why else would they not be able to comment on the matter? I just don't understand why no information can be let out. Like I had said before I hope that in the end some sort of reasonable solution can be agreed to, seems a bit rash to close everything but one main corridor trail. If I do hear of anything further I'll be sure to post it, but as of now we are all stuck talking to a bunch of clams

[WINNOCTURN]

iformation was give out indicating there was a court ordered "gag" order about takling about the castle. when asked in what court the case was being heared, the reply was i don't know.
a simple call to the clerck of coursts revield there was no case?

when i talked to gail hanson and questioned her as to wether nhsa should be an advocate in the matter i got an answer that whent of in a tangent as to the local clubs jumping on the bandwagon to donate to the lrct for the purchase and not involving nhsa more.

there was to be a directors meeting last night and the subject was to be on the adgender. i hope to here tonight what happend.

winnocturn

[ITD]

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=48067

[mcdude]

The Grunter’ • Est. 1859
RICHARD PIATT, Publisher
MARY SALIBA, Editor
Editorials, while unsigned, represent a consensus of the views of the
editorial board of the Granite State News and Carroll County Independent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let’s trust the Trust
Last week we received and printed a letter to the editor from a concerned Moultonborough resident in regards to the closing of snowmobile trails by the Lakes Region Conservation Trust on the historic Castle in the Clouds property in Moultonborough.
According to the writer, the trust’s goal all along when they raised money to purchase the property for conservation was to close the area to snowmobilers:
“Many locals were excited to see this area preserved for generations to come. Unfortunately, this ultra conservative group has managed to shut the gate on a large part of the local culture, snowmobilers. We all want to see these beautiful areas preserved, but in the same sense we want to see these areas. There are few people who are capable of snowshoeing or cross country skiing to the top of Mt. Shaw on snow covered trails,” stated the letter writer.
Since the first day we heard that the LRCT was in the process of raising funds to purchase the property, we have agreed with those (mainly the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club) who were keenly interested in making sure that the trails on the property be kept open to snowmobilers and since the first day the LRCT has maintained that it will indeed work to keep the trails open to members of the public.
Snowmobiling, when done on well-marked and cared-for trails by responsible individuals allows many people access to beautiful parts of our state that would otherwise be inaccessible during winter. In the case of the Castle property, these trails are well established and have been fantastically maintained by the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club.
Since we published the letter last week we have heard from the LRCT that closing the trails is not what they have in mind at all (see Tom Curren’s letter in this issue) as the letter writer asserted. What is happening at the current time is that the Trust is in the process of working with the Department of Resources and Economic Development (DRED) to provide access to snowmobile trails on the property without charge.
In the process of purchasing the property, the LRCT decided it needed a permanent management plan to effectively conserve the property and in order to establish that plan an overview of the property would need to be conducted.
“The Trust commissioned several studies on the property: a biological inventory of the entire 5,500-acre parcel (identifying all species of wildlife on the land), a trail analysis (identifying and mapping what proved to be roughly 35 miles of trails), a study of the historical uses of Ossipees, an analysis of the hydrogeology of the water sources on the property, and analyses of future financial obligations, including liability coverage, on the possible future uses of the property,” states Curren in his letter.
Curren goes on to state that the trust will be releasing its management plan in the coming weeks and that not everyone will “get everything he or she would want out of this plan.”
We understand the difficulties the Trust is facing in developing a plan that will satisfy everyone. We also understand the concern and frustration of those who have maintained and used the snowmobile trails on the property for years.
The rerouting and closure of some trails to avoid environmentally sensitive areas may be a necessary component of the plan and may cause limited snowmobiling access to the property. We hope that, if this does indeed prove to be the case, the arguments made as to why this needs to be done are valid and limiting access to certain areas is absolutely necessary.
By the same token, we hope that people who may feel that the plan is unfairly limiting access to the property understand that there is a proper way to voice your complaints and that ultimately the Trust (and those that support it financially) is now the owner of the property.Meredith News

Editor’s Note: The letter discussed in this editorial was printed in both the Meredith News and the Granite State News last week, and Mr. Curren’s response may be read in both papers this week.

...Wasn't it a Gilford resident?

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Mr. Curren can twist the words anyway he wants, you watch the result will be the same. Ultra conservative "tree huggers" are making areas off limits due to "endangered flora and fauna". It reads to me: tree huggers vs. snowmobilers...the saga continues. Obviously the LRCT is reading this site, so to them I say hello!

[HUH]

Sounds like the LRCT is on the defensive .. I dont buy it ..sounds like they are trying to " butter up" some people to keep them quiet..
Not here !
And yes im a Gilford resident

[HUH]

Its mid december ..

Snowmobilers worry about NH trails
By CAROL CARTER
Union Leader Correspondent



MOULTONBOROUGH - An updated Castle in the Clouds snowmobile trail lease shouldn't pose a problem for sledders despite widespread fear that "tree huggers" will close many trails, the director of the state Department of Parks and Recreation said yesterday.

"I'm not aware of any problem with this. We're charged by law to find a place for snowmobilers to recreate and I would be concerned about an extensive loss of trails at the castle," said director Rich McLeod.

Officials have been tight-lipped during negotiations with Lakes Region Conservation Trust, sparking rumors that miles of scenic trails will be replaced with a single corridor into Tamworth. The new lease negotiated between LRCT and the Bureau of Trails is now under review by the state Attorney General's Office, McLeod said.

But snowmobilers airing fears on www.winnipesaukeeforum.com insist "tree huggers" will close all trails except Corridor 15 into Tamworth. Irritated snowmobilers threaten a letter-writing campaign and suggest loading up their sleds for a mass protest in the LRCT parking lot.

LRCT President Tom Curren insists fears are unfounded. "There's been a lot of misinformation out there that we expect to clear up in the next week or two," Curren said.

George Higgins, a member and former director of the 710-member Moultonborough Snowmobile Club, said members were told by club officers in October that trails in the 5,200-acre estate will be off limits this winter. Members, many of whom donated to LRCT for the purchase, are concerned they're now getting the boot in favor of cross-country skiing and snowshoeing interests, he added.

Seeking answers from state officials or the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association during the past six weeks was futile, according to Higgins. "I've contacted everybody involved and nobody responds," he said.

Yesterday, Gail Hanson, executive director of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association, referred media questions to LRCT, saying her association isn't involved in those negotiations.

The LRCT raised $5.5 million to buy the popular tourist attraction and keep the landmark open to the public. Potential buyers of the vast estate on Mount Shaw also included a large hotel chain and a wealthy investor who wanted the estate for his personal use.

But during negotiations, former owner J. Paul Sticht lowered the price for LRCT on condition they maintain public access. The LRCT embraced Sticht's request and promised a multiple-use plan catering to all outdoor enthusiasts.

"With 85 miles of trails, we're confident we can accommodate a number of different uses up there," said Curren during an interview three years ago. The trust also signaled plans to reconfigure trails to protect rare plants and trees.

Higgins said he doesn't object to alternate trails bypassing those endangered species but wants the castle to remain a destination riding facility.

"This has always been a destination. It's a nice little day trip where we can have a bite to eat and a nice warm place before going back out on the trail," said Higgins, who estimates as many as 400 snowmobilers visit the Castle's Carriage House snack bar on a good snow day.

In fact, snowmobilers have enjoyed a good relationship with LRCT over the years, Higgins said. The trust sanctioned trail-building on their Red Hill property in Moultonborough, including a major connector from Route 25 to the back of Squam Lake, Higgins recalls.

"We've always had a good relationship with the trust but it would be nice if somebody would tell us what's happening now," Higgins concluded.

[mcdude]

Click for Article

Link to Moultonboro Snowmobile Club

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by mcdude

Click for Article

Link to Moultonboro Snowmobile Club

Here's the text-

Castle In the Clouds Trails.

The Lakes Region Conservation Trust (www.lrct.org) is closing all snowmobile access to trails in the Castle In The Clouds property, other than the main corridor trail (Trail 15). The Union Leader recently had an article about the issue. Note that Corridor Trail #15 is groomed by the State of NH, not Moultonboro SMC.

And from the LRCT

In recent weeks, the Trust has received responses regarding snowmobile usage at the Castle ranging from thoughtful to threatening in tone. While I have had the opportunity to speak with responsible and understanding snowmobilers, I understand that others have apparently decided to mount a "pressure" campaign on the Trust. The Lakes Region Conservation Trust has a history of working cooperatively with the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club and has opened land to snowmobilers that had been closed to such use for years. I consider the vast majority of snowmobilers to be enthusiastic and community-minded outdoorspeople. I am heartened that a number of thoughtful snowmobilers have alerted us to misinformation that is being circulated, and I look forward to working with them and with their colleagues in the future.

In the coming weeks, the Trust will complete and make public its management plan for the Castle property. Our first responsibility is to protect the wildlife habitat and clean water resources on the property. Our second is to provide balanced public access to the public in light of that first and unending responsibility. Undoubtedly, every member of the public will not "get" everything he or she would want out of this plan; undoubtedly there will be disagreement with some aspects of it, but it will be a balanced plan compiled in good faith and based upon the information we have gathered carefully during 3 years of study. I trust that fair-minded people will consider our work in that light.

And our third responsibility is to work with people of good will from all walks of life, whatever their recreational traditions are, to create both a sense of respect for each other and gratitude for the natural landscape. There are enough occasions for conflict in the world; the outdoors ought to be a place where people of good will can go to appreciate and enjoy what they have been so fortunate enough to inherit here in New Hampshire. That is how we have conducted our business as a responsible private conservation landowner, and that is how we will proceed in the future. Thank you for your consideration and your understanding of who we are and what we do.

Sincerely,

Thomas S. Curren
President, Lakes Region Conservation Trust

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Here's the text-

Castle In the Clouds Trails.

The Lakes Region Conservation Trust (www.lrct.org) is closing all snowmobile access to trails in the Castle In The Clouds property, other than the main corridor trail (Trail 15). The Union Leader recently had an article about the issue. Note that Corridor Trail #15 is groomed by the State of NH, not Moultonboro SMC.

And from the LRCT

In recent weeks, the Trust has received responses regarding snowmobile usage at the Castle ranging from thoughtful to threatening in tone. While I have had the opportunity to speak with responsible and understanding snowmobilers, I understand that others have apparently decided to mount a "pressure" campaign on the Trust. The Lakes Region Conservation Trust has a history of working cooperatively with the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club and has opened land to snowmobilers that had been closed to such use for years. I consider the vast majority of snowmobilers to be enthusiastic and community-minded outdoorspeople. I am heartened that a number of thoughtful snowmobilers have alerted us to misinformation that is being circulated, and I look forward to working with them and with their colleagues in the future.

In the coming weeks, the Trust will complete and make public its management plan for the Castle property. Our first responsibility is to protect the wildlife habitat and clean water resources on the property. Our second is to provide balanced public access to the public in light of that first and unending responsibility. Undoubtedly, every member of the public will not "get" everything he or she would want out of this plan; undoubtedly there will be disagreement with some aspects of it, but it will be a balanced plan compiled in good faith and based upon the information we have gathered carefully during 3 years of study. I trust that fair-minded people will consider our work in that light.

And our third responsibility is to work with people of good will from all walks of life, whatever their recreational traditions are, to create both a sense of respect for each other and gratitude for the natural landscape. There are enough occasions for conflict in the world; the outdoors ought to be a place where people of good will can go to appreciate and enjoy what they have been so fortunate enough to inherit here in New Hampshire. That is how we have conducted our business as a responsible private conservation landowner, and that is how we will proceed in the future. Thank you for your consideration and your understanding of who we are and what we do.

Sincerely,

Thomas S. Curren
President, Lakes Region Conservation Trust

I was not aware that the state had any grooming equipment ?

[mcdude]

Access will be allowed to snowmobilers despite the AMC's protest
click for story

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I love it. Its about time someone stood up to these AMC and LRCT types. What if we said no x country skiing on snowmobile trails??? Oh that would be tragic. To borrow from a famous quote "Can't we all, just get along?"

[HUH]

I really can't see why the different winter activities can't coexist.
I enjoy an occassional snowshoe and I'm an avid downhill skier, so I can appreciate the perspective.. But the peaceful solitude it seems cc skiers/snowshoers assume is their right, herein lies the "rub".. You will have times of solitude out there on the trails, but as the world becomes more and more crowded these times will be fewer and fewer..
Also I believe railroad beds as old and unused as they might be have some permanent easement restrictions on them .. The AMC claiming they own land under a railroad bed won't hold water ..

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by HUH

You will have times of solitude out there on the trails, but as the world becomes more and more crowded these times will be fewer and fewer..

Sounds like a good reason for the LRCT to exist?

Originally Posted by HUH

I really can't see why the different winter activities can't coexist. But the peaceful solitude it seems cc skiers/snowshoers assume is their right, herein lies the "rub"....

I recall a dog-sled operator being granted "peaceful solitude" by a snowmobile last year.

[trfour]

Before any ride began, "In my group", Everyone was well schooled about safety and the rights of way.

1. Respect Everyone, stay on, and to the right of the trail. DO NOT JOY Ride Off THE TRAIL

2. Snow Shoe'rs and Cross Country Ski'rs, and any animals, Have the Right Of Way!

3. No matter how much horse power that is under the hood of your sled, "Do Not Spin your track", so as not to deteriorate the trail for others, and try to make it easier for the Groomers whom have to groom the trails for all of us!

4. In my 20 years of snowmobiling, NH., ME., Canada and MA. common sense Rules!.. We have had so many enjoyable rides together and are here today to share........

PS........ If a moose happens to hitch a ride on your handlebars,.. "You", muffed Up!

"Let us all keep the Vision"!

[upthesaukee]

Great advice, TRfour.

And for those afoot on a trail used by snowmobiles as well, don't use the on foot right of way right up to the point of impact!!!!!! As one who hikes (snowshoes) on some snowmobile trails, I can hear the machines good ways off, and always get to the side of a wide trail and stop in a position where I can be seen easily, and usually will actually get off the trail. A friendly wave and smile to the snowmobilers and we all part company as "happy campers".

Lets get some good snow in the lakes region this year so we can enjoy our outdoor activities, and above all, lets share the trails, and be safe.

[chaynes68]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Here's the text-

Castle In the Clouds Trails.

The Lakes Region Conservation Trust (www.lrct.org) is closing all snowmobile access to trails in the Castle In The Clouds property, other than the main corridor trail (Trail 15). The Union Leader recently had an article about the issue. Note that Corridor Trail #15 is groomed by the State of NH, not Moultonboro SMC.

And from the LRCT

In recent weeks, the Trust has received responses regarding snowmobile usage at the Castle ranging from thoughtful to threatening in tone. While I have had the opportunity to speak with responsible and understanding snowmobilers, I understand that others have apparently decided to mount a "pressure" campaign on the Trust. The Lakes Region Conservation Trust has a history of working cooperatively with the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club and has opened land to snowmobilers that had been closed to such use for years. I consider the vast majority of snowmobilers to be enthusiastic and community-minded outdoorspeople. I am heartened that a number of thoughtful snowmobilers have alerted us to misinformation that is being circulated, and I look forward to working with them and with their colleagues in the future.

In the coming weeks, the Trust will complete and make public its management plan for the Castle property. Our first responsibility is to protect the wildlife habitat and clean water resources on the property. Our second is to provide balanced public access to the public in light of that first and unending responsibility. Undoubtedly, every member of the public will not "get" everything he or she would want out of this plan; undoubtedly there will be disagreement with some aspects of it, but it will be a balanced plan compiled in good faith and based upon the information we have gathered carefully during 3 years of study. I trust that fair-minded people will consider our work in that light.

And our third responsibility is to work with people of good will from all walks of life, whatever their recreational traditions are, to create both a sense of respect for each other and gratitude for the natural landscape. There are enough occasions for conflict in the world; the outdoors ought to be a place where people of good will can go to appreciate and enjoy what they have been so fortunate enough to inherit here in New Hampshire. That is how we have conducted our business as a responsible private conservation landowner, and that is how we will proceed in the future. Thank you for your consideration and your understanding of who we are and what we do.

Sincerely,

Thomas S. Curren
President, Lakes Region Conservation Trust

I love all the doublespeak going on in this guys letter. Evil threatning snowmobilers pressuring them to open trails in sensitive areas. Notice the last sentance....we're private landowners (we can do as we please in other words).

Some very interesting revelations:

1) Their FIRST priority is conserving wildlife, second is letting people use the land. This means NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES, maybe no unmotorized ones either. Wonder if the guy that lowered the price on this land was told this.

2) They have been working on this plan for 3 years. Does that mean they have been planning to close this area for 3 years?

Here's something to ponder. Say there's 40 miles of trails 12+/- ft wide on this property. Thats about 60 acres of trails (if you total the square feet). This is a 5400 acre parcel of land, 60 acres is 1% of the property that was used for sledding. Its a big sandbox there's room for everyone! The habitat they are trying to protect has been used by snowmobilers for years. If it is still alive then its not affected by our riding so what is there to protect?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there are some areas that are more sensitive than others. So maybe small portions would need to be rerouted or closed but not all of it!

Be a man loose the doublespeak! "WE BOUGHT THE LAND, WE DECIDE WHO USES IT. NO SNOWMOBILES EXCEPT FOR CORRIDOR 15. THATS THE WAY IT IS". People will have more respect for you when all is said and done.

thats the way i see it.....

[HUH]

Originally Posted by chaynes68

I love all the doublespeak going on in this guys letter. Evil threatning snowmobilers pressuring them to open trails in sensitive areas. Notice the last sentance....we're private landowners (we can do as we please in other words).

Some very interesting revelations:

1) Their FIRST priority is conserving wildlife, second is letting people use the land. This means NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES, maybe no unmotorized ones either. Wonder if the guy that lowered the price on this land was told this.

2) They have been working on this plan for 3 years. Does that mean they have been planning to close this area for 3 years?

Here's something to ponder. Say there's 40 miles of trails 12+/- ft wide on this property. Thats about 60 acres of trails (if you total the square feet). This is a 5400 acre parcel of land, 60 acres is 1% of the property that was used for sledding. Its a big sandbox there's room for everyone! The habitat they are trying to protect has been used by snowmobilers for years. If it is still alive then its not affected by our riding so what is there to protect?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there are some areas that are more sensitive than others. So maybe small portions would need to be rerouted or closed but not all of it!

Be a man lose the doublespeak! "WE BOUGHT THE LAND, WE DECIDE WHO USES IT. NO SNOWMOBILES EXCEPT FOR CORRIDOR 15. THATS THE WAY IT IS". People will have more respect for you when all is said and done.

thats the way i see it.....

Whats realy disturbing is that they purchased the land partialy with snowmobilers money !!

[HUH]

Well whats up ? The snow is here ??

In the coming weeks, the Trust will complete and make public its management plan for the Castle property. Our first responsibility is to protect the wildlife habitat and clean water resources on the property. Our second is to provide balanced public access to the public in light of that first and unending responsibility. Undoubtedly, every member of the public will not "get" everything he or she would want out of this plan; undoubtedly there will be disagreement with some aspects of it, but it will be a balanced plan compiled in good faith and based upon the information we have gathered carefully during 3 years of study. I trust that fair-minded people will consider our work in that light.

[HUH]

The snow was here

[Lakegeezer]

Tom Curren was quoted in the Citizen. Liability issues are being brought up. A bit more clear about the process, but no news about the upcoming season (if it ever snows).

http://www4.citizen.com/December_200...h_1230_04a.asp

[WeirsBeachBoater]

He stated that nothing is better than a face to face discussion. When is he going to set up the meeting. He better book a big hall.

[GWC...]

If you read the article, it clearly mentions Summer, as the appropriate meeting time.

Interestingly, the prior owner allowed snowmobiling in today’s litigious world.

Sounds like the Trust is not very trusting of Humans. Wonder how that makes the volunteers feel?!

Just my opinion; yours may differ.

[HUH]

First of all if they would reply to people who have questions there would be less speculation .. I tried to get real answers in a completely civil manner several times and got nothing ..Not even a "we're working on it" ..
The only fact we have is that the trails are closed and the land is posted !

[Lakegeezer]

CASTLE TRAILS:

As many of you know the Castle in the Clouds is under control of the Lakes Region Trust. Tom Curran has been talking with the director of Dept. of Economic Development of which the NH Bureau of Trails is part of. After the Trust’s bio survey and a study of uses by a LRT committee it has been determined that the Castle property will go the way of multiple use.

Trails will be separate for each user group. We are the losers. There are about 32 miles of trails that were groomed since the early 1970’s. Nine gates will be placed at various junctions to direct snowmobiles onto just ONE trail through the property. Corridor Trail #15 will be the only trail snowmobiles are allowed on. All other former loops will be off limits and only for hikers, snowshoers, and cross-country skiers. We can go to the top of Mt. Shaw only. Then we can proceed down the backside towards White Lake State Park. Our only other loop would be to go through White Lake to Wonalancet and eventually Sandwich Notch. The State of NH trails bureau is still working with the LRT on details. No lease has passed on, as the LRT does not accept funds from government agencies. An agreement is on hand that both parties need to sign.

The bottom line is that the Castle is no longer a destination for snowmobiliers, but simply a through trail to North Conway, Ossipee, and Sandwich Notch.

Update: Received confirmation on 12/16/04 from the Bureau of Trails that the Corridor trail #15 through the Castle is all set for this season. Gates are being put up today (12/17) on old trails we cannot use.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

There must be some legal or other resource to fix this. This is ridiculous. I will keep my thoughts to myself, so that Tom Curren doesn't get upset. Right Tom??? You are monitoring this right? Snowmobilers will prevail...

[secondcurve]

Tom Curren:

I consider myself an environmentalist and only in the past several years have I purchased sleds and enjoyed the Castle trails. I smiled when I learned that these trails would be protected forever by the Trust. Now to find that the trails will be greatly limited days before the season is set to open is quite disturbing.

To hear your double speak is even more disturbing. Insurance? I guess there is lower liability exposure on one trail as compared to multiple trails? Doubtful.

Supposedly the Trust has been working on the plans for 3 years and now days before the season is set to open it announces that only one Castle trail will be available for use? Why couldn't you and the Trust have announced that the trails would be open as usual this winter, but next winter things might change AFTER THOUGHTFUL, HONEST AND OPEN DISCUSSION OCCURRED IN THE OFFSEASON?

I have been against President Bush's plan to drill in Alaska, but after this debacle I am now having second thoughts. Tom, in the long run people like you retard conservation efforts by dictating what type of recreation the public should be allowed to enjoy, thus chasing away good, honest and like minded allies. In short, power plays turn people off and dilute the strength of conservation efforts. Finally, If you had had the integrety to inform people up front of what your vision for the Castle property was, I would have respected you much more. Tom your vision is clouded. Please reconsider your actions.

Mark Evitts

[JG1222]

As an outside observer, I can’t help but observe the overtly childish behavior many of you are exhibiting here. I choose the word “childish” carefully and intentionally because it tough not to draw the comparison to a four year-old throwing a temper tantrum in the grocery story because they’re not getting exactly what they want.

I think back to a time when skateboarders would use local strip malls to skate down the stairs, railings, benches, etc. The property owners, for whatever reason, decide to ban this activity from their property. Despite the many rational explanations (mostly having to do with liability issues), the kids all whine about it being their “right” to skateboard, and how “skateboarding isn't a crime”, and “we’ve been doing it for years”, etc.

Yes, many of you have been snowmobiling on Castle property for years, but that doesn’t make it your “right”. The only thing that would make it your “right” is if you were to own the Castle property.

So, where does that leave you? You could build a respectful and informed case to try to change the owner’s (or in this case the LRCT’s) mind, or you can bitch and whine about how those tree-hugging SOB’s will never get another red cent from you, blah, blah, blah… I commend the first group, and I’m positive that they’ll have a better chance of accomplishing something than the second. Hey, maybe the first group might even get a reasonable owner to offer some sort of a compromise to closing the property off to snowmobilers entirely (perhaps like allowing Route 15 to stay open?).

Listen, private owners don’t owe you, me, or anyone an explanation or "public discussion" as to what they decide to do with their land unless it adversely affects or harms other people. Any reasons they choose to give are given out of courtesy - not requirement. If the Castle property owners decided that they were going to ban only the blue snowmobiles this year, as ridiculous as it sounds, it would still be their right.

Oh, and if your argument is that the LRCT “tricked” you into giving them your money, just keep in mind that the supposed reason you gave them a donation in the first place was to support them in their efforts to conserve the land using their best judgment. So far, I've seen nothing that has led me to think that the LRCT is not doing what they believe is in the best interest of the land. If the reason you donated is to ensure you can snowmobile wherever you want, maybe you should check the receipt for that donation you made to see if it was to the right organization.

[Great Idea]

I too snowmobile and I too have enjoyed the trails at Castle in the Clouds however..... protecting the land should come first above the rights of a few over the many. Yes we as snowmobile users are in the minority. As for the contributions you/we made to the protect/save the land? We got what we paid for. The main route through the property is open. As others have pointed out without the land having been purchased by the LCRT folks developement/houses would have surely been the result thus NO access would be occurring. I would be willing to venture that the snowmobilers got their percentage worth out of their contributions as well. I know the bulk of the money came from folks who certainly aren't running around on snowmobiles. (Go ahead rant and rave that I am stereo typing etc. however I would put money on this one) Stop being selfish. You get to use a small portion of the land.... its better than nothing AND your beloved lake will be protected by the conservation. That area is a major watershed area into the lake and snowmobiles certainly due far more damage to the area than the other users.... ie hikers/snow shoes/skiing. "Tree hugging" is good economics.... once our future Repulicans recognize the connection between a clean/desirable environment and CASH..... watch out!!! Tree hugging and conservation will become a "conservative" favorite theme in the coming years. Lets stop whining and realize the cup is half full. We saved the land and we can still use it some. Concentrate on cleaning up our sport (ie 2 strokes ) and perhaps in the near future more areas or trails will open up for usage. Now there's an idea........

[ITD]

What are we protecting the woods from? Riding a snowmobile over a foot of snow leaves no trace after the snow is gone. Global warming?? When I was younger CO2 gas was going to cause the next ice age, now it’s global warming which is it?? Hydrogen is the answer, only problem right now it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than we yield after using it. Where does this energy come from? Fossil fuels, nuclear power, or renewable sources (which are scarce and questionable as far as how environmentally friendly they are (hydro and wind) solar is too inefficient right now).

Tom Curren and the trust should be ashamed for not stating their intention of closing off the trails when they asked for money, I don't buy that they just decided to close them after careful study. Without maintenance and use these trails will close in quickly, then only the squirrels will have access.

“"Tree hugging" is good economics....” Kyoto would have hobbled America while third world countries (China being the largest) have no restrictions. Tree hugging without careful thoughtful study is extremism, worse for us than the so called "ills" they try to save us from.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Great Idea

I too snowmobile and I too have enjoyed the trails at Castle in the Clouds however..... (etc.)

Though I generally agree with your post, I note that it is your first, and that you've raised "politics". My donations to the Sierra Club stopped when they adopted a similar party-bashing attitude. Audubon may be next, based on their most recent mailings.

Politicizing contributions is a self-fulfilling prophesy for failure.

Recently the Forum has generally adopted a politics-free convention, so your single political reference is a little out-of-bounds.
Cloak your political reference in "knuckle-dragging troglodites" language.

We'll know who you mean, and we'll continue to try -- together -- to save the Big Lake.

[Island Girl]

LRCT is a registered Charitable Trust in the state of NH. As a non-profit land trust, they have an obilgation to their donors in order to receive the benefits of being a non-profit and a land trust. This is not the same as a private property owner.

For more reading:
http://www.uvlt.org/html/NH_Liability.html Addresses the fact that LRCT would not be liable for people who injure themselves while snowmobiling on the Castle property.

http://www.lta.org/sp/revision.htm Some interesting reading on the responsibilities of Land Trusts.

And for what it is worth, Mr. Curren, I did contact LRCT via email and never got a response. My husband did contribute to save the Castle land for conservation and public access. I resent the put down on your website to the contrary.

My question is who elects the board of directors of LRCT? Where are the reports from which LRCT made the trail closing decisions? I believe the donors have a right to see those reports.

[HUH]

You dont actualy think Tom Curren would lower himself to post on a public forum ..After all we are only the ones who would use the land ..
Hello Tom anyone home ??

[Just Sold]

With all the discussion on LRTC and the trails now the bottling plant wants to expand up there. http://www.citizen.com/January2005/0..._01.13.05a.asp

Wonder which side the LRTC will be on. One concern in the artilce is about the size of the road with increased semi-tractor trailer traffic from the bottling plant.

[HUH]

They were worried about snomobiles damaging the fragile ecosystem ..
Well how about a nice convoy ..and perhaps a plastic bottle manufacturing plant.. Ive done work in many of this type facility..and reguardless of the effort to stop runoff, chemical spill and vapors its futile .. Makes a few snomobiles seem harmless

[Ski Man]

Well said JG1222. The fact that most of the people here are so quick to attack anyone who opposes snowmobile trails, calling them "treehuggers" or extreemists, or whatnot, is very disheartening. I haven't seen anyone calling you rednecks or white trash.

Talking about how you "accept skiers and walkers" is an empty claim, since these activities are very low-impact, and affect your ride little, while your activity affects their enjoyment significantly.

The fact is that although the actual area of a snowmobile trail might be small, the area affected by the vehicles is much louder. Even the "quiet" snowmobiles are loud enough to scare away wildlife. Beyond how this affects the hikers and skiiers, the animals have the right to exist as well, and not be bombarded with loud machines whining by every few minutes.