Water Level

Monarch Vu · 07-20-2014, 07:43 AM

New to Lake and have our boat in Parker Marine. Lake is so high we barely fit under bridge. According to the state charts the water is above normal height. Will the state increase outflow?

pjard · 07-20-2014, 07:49 AM

We went by the lake level marker yesterday at Weirs Beach and it was about an inch below full lake.

Slickcraft · 07-20-2014, 08:03 AM

Lake level is in a normal range, they might increase outflow a little but that will not have much of an impact.

http://www2.des.state.nh.us/RTi_Home...+Winnipesaukee

http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel

As the historical data shows docking at Parker could be a problem most anytime of the year.

TiltonBB · 07-20-2014, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjard

We went by the lake level marker yesterday at Weirs Beach and it was about an inch below full lake.

I spoke to someone from Wetlands in Concord last year and he claimed that he didn't know there was a level marker under the Weirs Bridge. At the time the marker showed about 2 inches below "full Lake" and the person I spoke to said that we were at "full lake".

So, although it is an indicator, I am not sure how that marker corresponds with what the people at the state level are thinking.

I also suggested that they increase the outflow at night and slow it down during the day to decrease the current in the Weirs Channel while people are navigating through there. It is my feeling that it is a safety issue. He said that was not possible since they don't work nights so it has to remain where the leave it when they go home.

Last year the substantial current in the channel did not slow until mid July. This year it has not been nearly as bad.

Resident 2B · 07-20-2014, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I spoke to someone from Wetlands in Concord last year and he claimed that he didn't know there was a level marker under the Weirs Bridge. At the time the marker showed about 2 inches below "full Lake" and the person I spoke to said that we were at "full lake".

So, although it is an indicator, I am not sure how that marker corresponds with what the people at the state level are thinking.

I also suggested that they increase the outflow at night and slow it down during the day to decrease the current in the Weirs Channel while people are navigating through there. It is my feeling that it is a safety issue. He said that was not possible since they don't work nights so it has to remain where the leave it when they go home.

Last year the substantial current in the channel did not slow until mid July. This year it has not been nearly as bad.

So they cannot raise it in the morning when they arrive for work and lower it in the evening when they go home? I do not understand why that is impossible.

R2B

TiltonBB · 07-20-2014, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

So they cannot raise it in the morning when they arrive for work and lower it in the evening when they go home? I do not understand why that is impossible.

R2B

That is because you are not a state "worker". It must be on a "need to know" basis and people like us don't need to know!

RLW · 07-20-2014, 01:36 PM

Monarch Vu , I just noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum after joining back in August 2013. We are glad that you have come aboard and joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends.

Thanks for logging in on the forum and speaking up. Enjoy and come on back more often.

jeffk · 07-20-2014, 09:21 PM

The management of the water level is more of an art than a science. The amount of water that flows into the lake depends on a lot of factors that cannot be accurately measured, only guesstimated. When there is a heavy rainfall and several inches of rain enter the lake, it can take 3 or 4, 24 hour days to drain the lake back down. If you drop the rate during the day that could now take 5 or 6 days. Suppose there is another rainstorm in that time? Now too much water is in the lake and you have to take extreme measures to get rid of it.

Further, the amount of water that can be drained is limited by downstream concerns. It's not just Winni that is being managed.

Most of the time, people want a bit less than a full lake to limit erosion and other high water damage. But not too low to cause rock clearance and shallow area problems. These concerns can be in conflict with access through some other areas because of water on the high side of normal. You are not going to make everyone happy.

I think the best you will get is that it is somewhat predictable. I think the dam operators have done a pretty good job over the last couple years keeping things within expected parameters. Except .... the last few weeks has seen the level rising and the dam NOT increasing output. That seems like a goof up.

Lakegeezer · 07-21-2014, 07:46 AM

When the level is full, or above, erosion is going to occur, especially with the multi-foot level wake that comes on weekends. The frequency, wave height and intensity of wake is scouring shoreline much more than it was 50 years ago, or eons before that. This, along with many other things, is accelerating a millennial of lake aging into a century or two.

While I agree that the dam operation staff has done well over the past few years, it would be nice to see more transparency into their decisions. For example, why does the lake discharge report show a 99% drop in flow (4-5 cfs) for two days starting July 11'th? Is it valid data or instrumentation failure? Why is the discharge rate today at 600 cfs, when the lake is at the top range of normal? A weekly blog from the dam operations staff would be appreciated.

Some have proposed that boat wake is no worse for the lake than a good windstorm. Perhaps on the lee side of the broads, this is true. For the narrow sections of the lake, it is not. Nature (other than human nature) never hits the shoreline in the same way.

Don't get me wrong. Winnipesaukee is still a very clean lake when compared to others. But the mechanisms that cause increased aging are easy to find. Government (fed, state, local) action can help reduce "cultural aging", but those methods are not popular or as effective as everyone doing their part.

Our responsibility, as stewards of the lake, is to become better educated on the issues and causes of reduced quality, then take steps to reduce our contributions to the lake's aging.

We can start by reducing the speed and volume of water running off our properties. Remove pet's waste. Don't use phosphorus based fertilizer on our lawns. Greatly reduce use of insecticides, such as diazinon (for ants) and pyrithrines (for mosquitoes) - as a very small amount will wipe out microscopic algae eating creatures. Maintain septic systems. Help to educate others.

We all contribute to the lake aging faster. The lake can absorb some human activity, but not an infinite amount. The first steps to a cure is awareness and stewardship.

The point of all this is, while we should all do our part, the state controls the dam - which along with weekend boat traffic - is also a major contributor to lake aging.

NH_boater · 07-21-2014, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarch Vu

New to Lake and have our boat in Parker Marine. Lake is so high we barely fit under bridge. According to the state charts the water is above normal height. Will the state increase outflow?

Parker. Fit under OK. Lake rises. Can't fit under. Parker not friendly or accommodating IMO.

No more Parker for me.

Descant · 07-21-2014, 09:41 PM

To the post about the Wetlands folks not knowing about the lake level marker: DES is a busy place with several divisions. The wetlands folks really don't have much to do in this area. The Dam Bureau is the place that controls the 300 or so dams that the state owns. There are also many owned by private parties, Village Districts, etc. that they inspect/monitor.

In addition to fitting under bridges, there are concerns about low water at the end of the season and being able to use docks when lake levels are low. They used to consider Labor Day as end of season and start lowering water accordingly. In the last decade, they have been more looking at Columbus Day as the end of season and that has resulted in a much better situation for those with shallow water docks.

Farfrumbehavin · 07-23-2014, 03:52 PM

If the lake is 71 sq miles and you tried to drop the level 1in, you need to dump 139,029,844 gals of water. If you let 600 cu ft/sec through the damm you would dump 16,156.800 gals in a 1hr period. So you would drop the lake more than 1 in overnight if you released 600 cu ft/sec and no other water was entering the lake from brooks, rivers, springs etc..... so if you release 600 cu ft per/sec for a 24 hr period and the level stayed the same then you will know how much water is entering the lake per hr. Of course we would have to make some adjustment for evaroration, water that is removed from the lake on bathing suits, ducks feet and such. Problem is the conditions are changing constantly so as soon as you think you have it all figured out it starts raining or it cools off and you gotta start figuring out the eqaution all over again. The solution might be to have DES run three shifts so they can pass accumulated data on the the next shift coming into work. Then it gets real dificult because one land owner wants the level higher and one wnts it lower proving that you just can't keep evry one happy. I vote for leaving things the way they are, and think that the people who are in charge of controlling the lake level do an incredible job. I would suggest giving them a raise but that would raise boat reg fees and even more people would complain! WOW my brain is tired, I need to go sit down and cool off.

07-20-2014, 07:43 AM	#1
Monarch Vu Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Water Level New to Lake and have our boat in Parker Marine. Lake is so high we barely fit under bridge. According to the state charts the water is above normal height. Will the state increase outflow?

07-20-2014, 01:36 PM	#7
RLW Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alton Bay on the mountain by a lake Posts: 2,023 Thanks: 563 Thanked 444 Times in 311 Posts	*Monarch Vu ,* I just noticed that you are fairly new to *posting* on the forum after joining back in August 2013. We are glad that you have come aboard and joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends. Thanks for logging in on the forum and speaking up. Enjoy and come on back more often. __________________ There is nothing better than living on Alton Mountain & our grand kids visits.

07-21-2014, 07:46 AM	#9
Lakegeezer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 1,657 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 342 Thanked 618 Times in 278 Posts	Thoughts for a Monday morning When the level is full, or above, erosion is going to occur, especially with the multi-foot level wake that comes on weekends. The frequency, wave height and intensity of wake is scouring shoreline much more than it was 50 years ago, or eons before that. This, along with many other things, is accelerating a millennial of lake aging into a century or two. While I agree that the dam operation staff has done well over the past few years, it would be nice to see more transparency into their decisions. For example, why does the lake discharge report show a 99% drop in flow (4-5 cfs) for two days starting July 11'th? Is it valid data or instrumentation failure? Why is the discharge rate today at 600 cfs, when the lake is at the top range of normal? A weekly blog from the dam operations staff would be appreciated. Some have proposed that boat wake is no worse for the lake than a good windstorm. Perhaps on the lee side of the broads, this is true. For the narrow sections of the lake, it is not. Nature (other than human nature) never hits the shoreline in the same way. Don't get me wrong. Winnipesaukee is still a very clean lake when compared to others. But the mechanisms that cause increased aging are easy to find. Government (fed, state, local) action can help reduce "cultural aging", but those methods are not popular or as effective as everyone doing their part. Our responsibility, as stewards of the lake, is to become better educated on the issues and causes of reduced quality, then take steps to reduce our contributions to the lake's aging. We can start by reducing the speed and volume of water running off our properties. Remove pet's waste. Don't use phosphorus based fertilizer on our lawns. Greatly reduce use of insecticides, such as diazinon (for ants) and pyrithrines (for mosquitoes) - as a very small amount will wipe out microscopic algae eating creatures. Maintain septic systems. Help to educate others. We all contribute to the lake aging faster. The lake can absorb some human activity, but not an infinite amount. The first steps to a cure is awareness and stewardship. The point of all this is, while we should all do our part, the state controls the dam - which along with weekend boat traffic - is also a major contributor to lake aging. __________________ -lg

07-21-2014, 09:41 PM	#11
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,030 Thanks: 1,209 Thanked 1,509 Times in 982 Posts	Lake Level Marker To the post about the Wetlands folks not knowing about the lake level marker: DES is a busy place with several divisions. The wetlands folks really don't have much to do in this area. The Dam Bureau is the place that controls the 300 or so dams that the state owns. There are also many owned by private parties, Village Districts, etc. that they inspect/monitor. In addition to fitting under bridges, there are concerns about low water at the end of the season and being able to use docks when lake levels are low. They used to consider Labor Day as end of season and start lowering water accordingly. In the last decade, they have been more looking at Columbus Day as the end of season and that has resulted in a much better situation for those with shallow water docks.

07-20-2014, 07:49 AM	#2
pjard Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 626 Thanks: 453 Thanked 184 Times in 97 Posts	We went by the lake level marker yesterday at Weirs Beach and it was about an inch below full lake.

07-20-2014, 08:03 AM	#3
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and West Alton Posts: 3,216 Thanks: 1,172 Thanked 2,000 Times in 914 Posts	Lake level is in a normal range, they might increase outflow a little but that will not have much of an impact. http://www2.des.state.nh.us/RTi_Home...+Winnipesaukee http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel As the historical data shows docking at Parker could be a problem most anytime of the year.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TiltonBB For This Useful Post:
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07-20-2014, 09:21 PM	#8
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,130 Thanks: 201 Thanked 421 Times in 239 Posts	The management of the water level is more of an art than a science. The amount of water that flows into the lake depends on a lot of factors that cannot be accurately measured, only guesstimated. When there is a heavy rainfall and several inches of rain enter the lake, it can take 3 or 4, 24 hour days to drain the lake back down. If you drop the rate during the day that could now take 5 or 6 days. Suppose there is another rainstorm in that time? Now too much water is in the lake and you have to take extreme measures to get rid of it. Further, the amount of water that can be drained is limited by downstream concerns. It's not just Winni that is being managed. Most of the time, people want a bit less than a full lake to limit erosion and other high water damage. But not too low to cause rock clearance and shallow area problems. These concerns can be in conflict with access through some other areas because of water on the high side of normal. You are not going to make everyone happy. I think the best you will get is that it is somewhat predictable. I think the dam operators have done a pretty good job over the last couple years keeping things within expected parameters. Except .... the last few weeks has seen the level rising and the dam NOT increasing output. That seems like a goof up.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lakegeezer For This Useful Post:
Greene's Basin Girl (07-21-2014), LFOD (07-22-2014)

07-23-2014, 03:52 PM	#12
Farfrumbehavin Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 52 Thanks: 7 Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts	If the lake is 71 sq miles and you tried to drop the level 1in, you need to dump 139,029,844 gals of water. If you let 600 cu ft/sec through the damm you would dump 16,156.800 gals in a 1hr period. So you would drop the lake more than 1 in overnight if you released 600 cu ft/sec and no other water was entering the lake from brooks, rivers, springs etc..... so if you release 600 cu ft per/sec for a 24 hr period and the level stayed the same then you will know how much water is entering the lake per hr. Of course we would have to make some adjustment for evaroration, water that is removed from the lake on bathing suits, ducks feet and such. Problem is the conditions are changing constantly so as soon as you think you have it all figured out it starts raining or it cools off and you gotta start figuring out the eqaution all over again. The solution might be to have DES run three shifts so they can pass accumulated data on the the next shift coming into work. Then it gets real dificult because one land owner wants the level higher and one wnts it lower proving that you just can't keep evry one happy. I vote for leaving things the way they are, and think that the people who are in charge of controlling the lake level do an incredible job. I would suggest giving them a raise but that would raise boat reg fees and even more people would complain! WOW my brain is tired, I need to go sit down and cool off.