Mooring...What are your thoughts

_C_H_R_I_S_ · 06-25-2007, 09:14 AM

I have a bucket filled with concrete attached to the front of my jet ski used only as an achor point. I had attached a floating ball to that line so people dont accidently step on it...The back of the jet ski is attached to the dock. It has been like this for three years and there has never been a problem but this year MP decide to put a warning sticker on it saying it is illegally moored. I took the floating ball off from the line thinking they consider it a mooring because this was on there. What are the laws on this? The weight in the front is an achor not a mooring...I take it out when I take the jet ski out at the end of the season. I thought that a boat is not considered moored as long as it is somehow attached to a dock, isnt this correct?

Mooring: a place where a craft can be made fast

Anchor: a mechanical device that prevents a vessel from moving

Let me know what your thoughts are on this situation...I called MP and they didnt have an answer for me, they said to call the mooring department. I will be doing that but want as much info as possible before I do especially if there is no problem with this setup...Thanks in advance.

Gatto Nero · 06-25-2007, 09:39 AM

I had a neighbor complain to Safety Services for a very similar setup (the back of the jet ski was tied to land as opposed to a dock). Safety Services asked me to register it as a mooring. I made the same argument that you did but they said it didn't make any difference if it was attached to land. I needed the ball so that we could grab the line so it really was a mooring. I applied for a mooring permit and got it without any problem. It's only $25/yr so it's not the end of th world and now I'm legal so there is one less thing my neighbor can hassle me about

camp guy · 06-25-2007, 10:24 AM

First let me qualify my answer by saying I am NOT an MP, NOT a lawyer, and, sadly, NOT a waterfront dweller anymore, but, I have a couple of thoughts to add to yours. Thought One: Maybe because you are using the anchor in a "permanent", albeit seasonal and portable manor, it rises to the level of being, in fact, an anchor. Thought Two: Maybe because one end of the jet ski is anchored, and the other end is tethered to the shore you are creating a navigational hazard along the shoreline.

Good luck in sorting this out - keep the Forum posted, please. I'll bet that if one were to circumnavigate the Lake, on the water, they would find any number of methods used to secure a boat. Some more okay (in the eyes of the MP) than others. I repeat myself - Good Luck.

Skip · 06-25-2007, 10:31 AM

I have attached only a portion of the mooring regulations. But as you can see, the "anchor" you describe it is considered a mooring. A ball is not required, as mentioned in the RSA and seasonal use, as you indicated, also makes it a mooring.

Hope this helps explain it a little better.

270:59 Definitions. – In this subdivision:
I. ""Director'' means the director, division of safety services, department of safety.
II. ""Division'' means the division of safety services, department of safety.
III. ""Mooring'' when used as a noun, means a mooring anchor, or other fixed object or stationary point, with or without a mooring buoy together with attached chains, cables, ropes, and pennants and related equipment used for the purpose of securing watercraft.
IV. ""Mooring anchor'' means any anchor or weight which is designed to rest on the bed or to be buried in the bed of a navigable water body, which is designed to be attached by a chain, cable, rope, or other mechanism to a mooring buoy and which is designed to be left in position permanently or on a seasonal basis.

AC2717 · 06-25-2007, 10:42 AM

instead of a mooring ball how bout is you just teather a small float to it like a bumper or something like that, so it is not like a mooring ball sitting ontop of the water, almost like a pick up flag without the flag or flag pole.

Another option can you tie the bow of the jetski tot he dock by installing a whip or maybe even an inexpensive cleat to the dock? I am sur eyou have thought of these things anyway.

is it to heavy to pull in and out of the water when you head out onm the ater, maybe you can just pull it in and out of the water? seems like it could be a lot of work

If there was a rock there that was "somewhat of a danger" in that area you could rope that up and mark that with a bottle and then just tie to that?

GOOD LUCK WITH MP

chaseisland · 06-25-2007, 10:45 AM

Welcome to NH "Live fee or die", the yearly fee is $25 once you get approved for a mooring. Shold you loose your decal that will be another $25.

_C_H_R_I_S_ · 06-25-2007, 10:49 AM

Thanks for the replies so far...Keep them coming. I consider a mooring permanent while this can be moved an taken out with ease so I think of it as an anchor. I am not sure how they could say it is a navigational hazard along the shoreline...It is not even 30 feet from shore and no more than waist high in the water. The dock is shorter than all others around so even though the jet ski is out in front of the dock, it is not even close to being the same length as the others. The depth of the water is too shallow for a boat to be driving through and the only reason one would be in there was to park at the neighbors dock. MP has always been around in there and checking out moorings and even giving the warning stickers to neighbors and never once put one on mine until now.

Skip: Thanks for the info...I have been trying to find the definition of an anchor to see what they say about that and havnt been able to find it. They only refer to everything as mooring and mooring anchor.

""Mooring'' when used as a noun, means a mooring anchor, or other fixed object or stationary point, with or without a mooring buoy together with attached chains, cables, ropes, and pennants and related equipment used for the purpose of securing watercraft."

What do they consider securing the watercraft...The entire watercraft or part of it? When I think of a mooring, I think of a boat sitting out in the water not attached to anything else but the mooring.

""Mooring anchor'' means any anchor or weight which is designed to rest on the bed or to be buried in the bed of a navigable water body, which is designed to be attached by a chain, cable, rope, or other mechanism to a mooring buoy and which is designed to be left in position permanently or on a seasonal basis."

Mooring anchor says any anchor that is attached to a mooring buoy but this isnt the case with my situation.

I have been told that neighbors' relatives have come up in the past with their jet ski and only had it anchored in the water...He got a warning sticker for illegal mooring and they called on it. They had been told that if it is somehow attached to the dock then it would be fine. I have done this for three years and they did this also and havnt had a problem...I dont understand.

Skip · 06-25-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _C_H_R_I_S_

...mooring anchor says any anchor that is attached to a mooring buoy but this isnt the case with my situation....

You have to go back and review what I posted earlier. You would have a "mooring anchor" if you still had the ball attached. You removed the ball so now you meet the legal definition of "mooring", not "mooring anchor". And your admitted seasonal use is also covered in the RSA and still makes it a mooring requiring the requisite permit.

The key word here is "secured". Even though you have an additional tie point that does not meet the mooring definition, you are "secured" in part to a device that meets the legal definition of a mooring. The intent of the RSA does not allow for exclusion because you choose to tie your boat up at both ends. In other words your vessel is secured to both a device that meets the legal definition of a mooring and a dock. Moorings require permits on the big Lake.

I believe this is the explanation you will get when you do get through to the mooring folks.

Sorry, there is no easy way around this one.

jetskier · 06-25-2007, 11:10 AM

Hi all,

We went through much of the same at South Down a few years back. Our jetskis are on moorings and we have been told that the jetskis can not be fastened to the dock in any fashion. So a recognized mooring appears to be completely freestanding from the dock. Our jetski moorings used to be tied to the dock and they are now freestanding with about a 250 lb weight/bouy to the bow.

I think that you have a few choices:

Fasten the jetski to the dock (if this is approved) using rope or dock whips etc...
Install a davit to lift the jetski out of the water
Apply for a mooring permit and moor the jetski without attachment to the dock

Hope this helps.

Jetskier

Bear Islander · 06-25-2007, 11:25 AM

Chris

I think you are trying to split hairs. And the Marine Patrol will not be receptive to that. Skip has posted the definition that applies.

If you are securing any part of any kind of boat to the bottom of the lake in any way you will need a mooring permit.

The same kind of thing was used off the side of my dock for at least 20 years without a permit. One day the Marine Patrol showed up and said it was a mooring. After some research and a few telephone calls I discovered they were correct. Now I have a permit.

_C_H_R_I_S_ · 06-25-2007, 11:30 AM

Skip - I totally understand what you mean...I just wish I could find their definition of anchor(ing) or do they not use that word anymore. Seems like they want mooring and anchoring to be the same. So boats that sit out on the lake for the day while people swim etc from them are technically moored and yet they dont have a mooring permit. If they are considered anchored, then it is moored also because it is resting on the ground and securing the watercraft. Is there a time frame for anchoring vs mooring, certain amount of hours etc?

Jetskier: The dock is full of boats and it is my neighbors property...They let me keep it over there so I wouldnt feel right with taking up their space with a rack etc or even asking for that matter...Plus they are quite expensive.

I hope you guys can see what I mean and dont take me as being a smart @$$...I have it in my mind of what I want to say and it sometimes will come out wrong. Thanks for all the advice...I will try to give them a call this afternoon and see how it goes, I will keep you posted.

kjbathe · 06-25-2007, 11:39 AM

What you describe is a mooring. That MP didn't take notice until now means nothing other than then you got it for free for a few years and are now several dollars ahead of the game.

Secure it to the dock, or make application, write the check and put it behind you. It is what it is...

jrc · 06-25-2007, 12:06 PM

In this context a mooring is permanent or at least seasonal. An anchor is temporary. At the very least it is removed when the boat is removed.

My guess is that you could anchor your jet ski with your makeshift anchor and remove the anchor when you ride the jetski. That seems to conforms to the letter of the law.

Now can you leave the jetski anchored overnight in front of your dock? That's different question. One that we have discussed before.

TomC · 06-25-2007, 12:13 PM

There is an association three or four lots over from me. They have a dock that would normally hold 3-4 boats along its length (the dock looks like it is maybe 75-80' long). To maximize its boat storing ability, they appear to have sunk some sort of attachment points (anchors, mooring weights?) in 5 places about 20 feet off the dock along side of it. People attach the bow of their boat to the dock via the ring or center cleat, then grab a rope at the stern which goes below the water (they are attached to bleach bottle floats) and fasten to the transom eye(s). This way they get 5 boats on the dock instead of 3 or 4 (and as a perhaps unintended benefit, they have their boats protected from dock rash in this way, too).

Are those stern attachment points moorings as well? I am only curious- this situation in no way bothers me, so i'm not going to report them...

Skip · 06-25-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _C_H_R_I_S_

Skip - I totally understand what you mean...I just wish I could find their definition of anchor(ing) or do they not use that word anymore. Seems like they want mooring and anchoring to be the same. So boats that sit out on the lake for the day while people swim etc from them are technically moored and yet they dont have a mooring permit.

Interesting points....but in this case you have already answered your own question in your initial post.

You stated that the fixed point that you use (concrete in a bucket) is left for the entire season. That explanation clearly meets the legal descriptio of a mooring. The word anchor never comes in to play.

When you anchor you utilize a temporary device that you retrieve upon finish. You are not retrieving your concrete bucket, but leaving it in the same spot for the season.

If I left an anchor in a fixed spot for the season it then too would cease to be an anchor and thus become a mooring.

Ah, the classic case of which comes first, the chicken or the egg!

Those folks throwing an anchor out for the day are excercising their temporary privilege of anchoring....they are not using a fixed point and therefore are not mooring.

So, when does anchoring become mooring? The MPs say that occurs when you leave that anchor in overnight, even if its just for one night. While this RSA is clear when it comes to houseboats there is still some debate as to its applicability to other vessels.

That said I firmly believe there is no debate to the situation as you describe. Remember, in law it usually comes down to intent. Your admitted intention is to moor your jet ski on the Lake for the season. To do so requires a mooring permit. In the process you have now attracted the attention of the NHMP. My friendly advice to you is to immediately seek the necessary permit or find other docking opportunities.

Good luck and be safe.....

Kamper · 06-25-2007, 12:52 PM

I have used an anchor as an off-set when tieing to some friend's dock. I used to prefer to leave the line in the water and fish it out with a hook. You can put a loop in your line and hang it to the dock if you'd rather.

Either way, as long as that float isnt there catching anyone's eye, you should be okay. Might not be striclty within the letter of the law though, as Skip pointed out.

Good luck!

_C_H_R_I_S_ · 06-25-2007, 01:17 PM

Thank you all for the input...Very good points all around. I did call the department and they said that whoever gave the information before hand saying that it was fine was wrong and that it is considered a mooring. I thought or at least was hoping I kind of made sense with what I was saying and thinking but I was wrong haha. I will look into the permit and hope they can do it soon because it wouldnt be cool if they towed it while I was waiting on them...Thanks again - Have a great day and summer.

Skip · 06-25-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _C_H_R_I_S_

...I did call the department and they said that whoever gave the information before hand saying that it was fine was wrong and that it is considered a mooring...

Chris....thanks for following through with the proper authorities and then posting the results!

Hopefully you'll get your situation squared away forthwith and get out and do what we should all be doing....enjoying the Lake!

Have a great (and safe) summer,

Skip

Pineedles · 06-25-2007, 03:17 PM

I was told that you may not have a "pulley" type of arrangement for mooring your boat. In other words a ring attached to a looped rope where you attach your boat and you use the pulley to pull your boat out to where the anchor is. Is this Ok or not? We have a permit for the mooring ball.

codeman671 · 06-25-2007, 03:49 PM

According to the actual mooring application that must be filed, permits for moorings used for PWC, sunfish, jet skis, canoes, rowboats, etc will not be issued. (unless under special circumstances as stated)

When I applied for our moorings they would not allow us to use our PWC as registered vessels towards determining our need for the 2 moorings we have. I am not sure how associations such as South Down can get away with it.

Here is the link to the application we had to file:

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...ngs/forms.html

ossipeeboater · 06-25-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC2717

instead of a mooring ball how bout is you just teather a small float to it like a bumper or something like that, so it is not like a mooring ball sitting ontop of the water, almost like a pick up flag without the flag or flag pole.
Another option can you tie the bow of the jetski tot he dock by installing a whip or maybe even an inexpensive cleat to the dock? I am sur eyou have thought of these things anyway.

is it to heavy to pull in and out of the water when you head out onm the ater, maybe you can just pull it in and out of the water? seems like it could be a lot of work

If there was a rock there that was "somewhat of a danger" in that area you could rope that up and mark that with a bottle and then just tie to that?

GOOD LUCK WITH MP

I got bagged with a fender attached to a concrete block last year, this was in 18 inches of water inside the length of mine and my 2 neighbors L-shape docks where there was no possible way to hit it and I still got the sticker. Yanked them out and tied a rope to a tree on the shore and no one questioned it since.

Gavia immer · 06-25-2007, 05:14 PM

One town, at least, will collect a second mooring fee over and above the NH mooring fee. I'd check, it's a 2nd fee, collected annually.

I see several options. You could have a "tie-off" piling driven to one side of your dock -- probably much less than $500 towards the end of the season. No permit is needed for driving a single piling. There is a electric lift that gets attached to the dock -- $1000, but they appear used for less than half that on www.nhcraigslist.com. You could use one or two mooring whips -- $125 for one. Or use lag bolts and attach a 2X6 to the dock to use for the bow -- $18. Depending on the cost of the lag bolts.

Islander · 06-25-2007, 06:24 PM

Are you sure that a single piling does not require a permit? That is interesting news if true.

jrc · 06-25-2007, 06:58 PM

here are the rules, have fun! (Search for dolphin)

http://www.des.state.nh.us/rules/env-wt100-800.pdf

It does seem that a single piling is a minor project not a minimum impact and does require a permit. It does not seem to be something that you can even use the permit by notification shortcut. But it is a slog to read and I could be wrong.

jetskier · 06-25-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

According to the actual mooring application that must be filed, permits for moorings used for PWC, sunfish, jet skis, canoes, rowboats, etc will not be issued. (unless under special circumstances as stated)

When I applied for our moorings they would not allow us to use our PWC as registered vessels towards determining our need for the 2 moorings we have. I am not sure how associations such as South Down can get away with it.

Here is the link to the application we had to file:

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...ngs/forms.html

Hi Codeman671,

The application indicates that they will not issue mooring permits for small craft that can be easily removed from the water. South Down has limited storage and a busy marina that precludes easy removal and storage. I agree that it is not easy to get a mooring...the process requires application to marine safety, a public hearing and ultimately, approval by the govenor's office. In addition, moorings are granted on the basis of how much frontage you have. Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Regards,
Jetskier

SIKSUKR · 06-26-2007, 07:47 AM

I had a friend get a ticket for leaving his PWC on his mooring.Boats only I guess.Here's the rub though,This PWC is registered as a boat!Hmm.

AC2717 · 06-26-2007, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I had a friend get a ticket for leaving his PWC on his mooring.Boats only I guess.Here's the rub though,This PWC is registered as a boat!Hmm.

I use a half canoe with a trolling motor on it to get to my mooring, I also am going to use it to fish. I leave it hooked up to the mooring when I take my boat out. are you telling me I cannot do this? They will tow it away or ticket me, that doe snto make sense if it is the case

Gavia immer · 06-26-2007, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

Are you sure that a single piling does not require a permit? That is interesting news if true.

Sorry. A permit is not required for a single piling when it replaces one damaged or rotted single piling.

06-25-2007, 09:14 AM	#1
_C_H_R_I_S_ Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mooring...What are your thoughts I have a bucket filled with concrete attached to the front of my jet ski used only as an achor point. I had attached a floating ball to that line so people dont accidently step on it...The back of the jet ski is attached to the dock. It has been like this for three years and there has never been a problem but this year MP decide to put a warning sticker on it saying it is illegally moored. I took the floating ball off from the line thinking they consider it a mooring because this was on there. What are the laws on this? The weight in the front is an achor not a mooring...I take it out when I take the jet ski out at the end of the season. I thought that a boat is not considered moored as long as it is somehow attached to a dock, isnt this correct? Mooring: a place where a craft can be made fast Anchor: a mechanical device that prevents a vessel from moving Let me know what your thoughts are on this situation...I called MP and they didnt have an answer for me, they said to call the mooring department. I will be doing that but want as much info as possible before I do especially if there is no problem with this setup...Thanks in advance.

06-25-2007, 09:39 AM	#2
Gatto Nero Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Isola Gatto Nero Posts: 696 Thanks: 162 Thanked 263 Times in 81 Posts	I had a neighbor complain to Safety Services for a very similar setup (the back of the jet ski was tied to land as opposed to a dock). Safety Services asked me to register it as a mooring. I made the same argument that you did but they said it didn't make any difference if it was attached to land. I needed the ball so that we could grab the line so it really was a mooring. I applied for a mooring permit and got it without any problem. It's only $25/yr so it's not the end of th world and now I'm legal so there is one less thing my neighbor can hassle me about __________________ La vita è buona su Isola Gatto Nero Last edited by Gatto Nero; 06-25-2007 at 11:02 AM.

06-25-2007, 10:24 AM	#3
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,135 Thanks: 284 Thanked 480 Times in 271 Posts	Mooring...what are your thoughts First let me qualify my answer by saying I am NOT an MP, NOT a lawyer, and, sadly, NOT a waterfront dweller anymore, but, I have a couple of thoughts to add to yours. Thought One: Maybe because you are using the anchor in a "permanent", albeit seasonal and portable manor, it rises to the level of being, in fact, an anchor. Thought Two: Maybe because one end of the jet ski is anchored, and the other end is tethered to the shore you are creating a navigational hazard along the shoreline. Good luck in sorting this out - keep the Forum posted, please. I'll bet that if one were to circumnavigate the Lake, on the water, they would find any number of methods used to secure a boat. Some more okay (in the eyes of the MP) than others. I repeat myself - Good Luck.

06-25-2007, 10:31 AM	#4
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	mooring definitions I have attached only a portion of the mooring regulations. But as you can see, the "anchor" you describe it is considered a mooring. A ball is not required, as mentioned in the RSA and seasonal use, as you indicated, also makes it a mooring. Hope this helps explain it a little better. 270:59 Definitions. – In this subdivision: I. ""Director'' means the director, division of safety services, department of safety. II. ""Division'' means the division of safety services, department of safety. III. ""Mooring'' when used as a noun, means a mooring anchor, or other fixed object or stationary point, with or without a mooring buoy together with attached chains, cables, ropes, and pennants and related equipment used for the purpose of securing watercraft. IV. ""Mooring anchor'' means any anchor or weight which is designed to rest on the bed or to be buried in the bed of a navigable water body, which is designed to be attached by a chain, cable, rope, or other mechanism to a mooring buoy and which is designed to be left in position permanently or on a seasonal basis.

06-25-2007, 10:42 AM	#5
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,521 Thanks: 747 Thanked 344 Times in 257 Posts	try this instead of a mooring ball how bout is you just teather a small float to it like a bumper or something like that, so it is not like a mooring ball sitting ontop of the water, almost like a pick up flag without the flag or flag pole. Another option can you tie the bow of the jetski tot he dock by installing a whip or maybe even an inexpensive cleat to the dock? I am sur eyou have thought of these things anyway. is it to heavy to pull in and out of the water when you head out onm the ater, maybe you can just pull it in and out of the water? seems like it could be a lot of work If there was a rock there that was "somewhat of a danger" in that area you could rope that up and mark that with a bottle and then just tie to that? GOOD LUCK WITH MP

06-25-2007, 10:45 AM	#6
chaseisland Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Concord, NH Posts: 152 Thanks: 17 Thanked 66 Times in 42 Posts	Welcome to NH "Live fee or die", the yearly fee is $25 once you get approved for a mooring. Shold you loose your decal that will be another $25.

06-25-2007, 10:49 AM	#7
_C_H_R_I_S_ Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the replies so far...Keep them coming. I consider a mooring permanent while this can be moved an taken out with ease so I think of it as an anchor. I am not sure how they could say it is a navigational hazard along the shoreline...It is not even 30 feet from shore and no more than waist high in the water. The dock is shorter than all others around so even though the jet ski is out in front of the dock, it is not even close to being the same length as the others. The depth of the water is too shallow for a boat to be driving through and the only reason one would be in there was to park at the neighbors dock. MP has always been around in there and checking out moorings and even giving the warning stickers to neighbors and never once put one on mine until now. Skip: Thanks for the info...I have been trying to find the definition of an anchor to see what they say about that and havnt been able to find it. They only refer to everything as mooring and mooring anchor. ""Mooring'' when used as a noun, means a mooring anchor, or other fixed object or stationary point, with or without a mooring buoy together with attached chains, cables, ropes, and pennants and related equipment used for the purpose of securing watercraft." What do they consider securing the watercraft...The entire watercraft or part of it? When I think of a mooring, I think of a boat sitting out in the water not attached to anything else but the mooring. ""Mooring anchor'' means any anchor or weight which is designed to rest on the bed or to be buried in the bed of a navigable water body, which is designed to be attached by a chain, cable, rope, or other mechanism to a mooring buoy and which is designed to be left in position permanently or on a seasonal basis." Mooring anchor says any anchor that is attached to a mooring buoy but this isnt the case with my situation. I have been told that neighbors' relatives have come up in the past with their jet ski and only had it anchored in the water...He got a warning sticker for illegal mooring and they called on it. They had been told that if it is somehow attached to the dock then it would be fine. I have done this for three years and they did this also and havnt had a problem...I dont understand.

06-25-2007, 11:10 AM	#9
jetskier Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Reading, MA and South Down Shores Posts: 850 Thanks: 57 Thanked 183 Times in 114 Posts	A reference point Hi all, We went through much of the same at South Down a few years back. Our jetskis are on moorings and we have been told that the jetskis can not be fastened to the dock in any fashion. So a recognized mooring appears to be completely freestanding from the dock. Our jetski moorings used to be tied to the dock and they are now freestanding with about a 250 lb weight/bouy to the bow. I think that you have a few choices: Fasten the jetski to the dock (if this is approved) using rope or dock whips etc... Install a davit to lift the jetski out of the water Apply for a mooring permit and moor the jetski without attachment to the dock Hope this helps. Jetskier

06-25-2007, 11:25 AM	#10
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,757 Thanks: 31 Thanked 429 Times in 203 Posts	Chris I think you are trying to split hairs. And the Marine Patrol will not be receptive to that. Skip has posted the definition that applies. If you are securing any part of any kind of boat to the bottom of the lake in any way you will need a mooring permit. The same kind of thing was used off the side of my dock for at least 20 years without a permit. One day the Marine Patrol showed up and said it was a mooring. After some research and a few telephone calls I discovered they were correct. Now I have a permit.

06-25-2007, 11:30 AM	#11
_C_H_R_I_S_ Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Skip - I totally understand what you mean...I just wish I could find their definition of anchor(ing) or do they not use that word anymore. Seems like they want mooring and anchoring to be the same. So boats that sit out on the lake for the day while people swim etc from them are technically moored and yet they dont have a mooring permit. If they are considered anchored, then it is moored also because it is resting on the ground and securing the watercraft. Is there a time frame for anchoring vs mooring, certain amount of hours etc? Jetskier: The dock is full of boats and it is my neighbors property...They let me keep it over there so I wouldnt feel right with taking up their space with a rack etc or even asking for that matter...Plus they are quite expensive. I hope you guys can see what I mean and dont take me as being a smart @$$...I have it in my mind of what I want to say and it sometimes will come out wrong. Thanks for all the advice...I will try to give them a call this afternoon and see how it goes, I will keep you posted.

06-25-2007, 11:39 AM	#12
kjbathe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 281 Thanks: 3 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts	It's a mooring. What you describe is a mooring. That MP didn't take notice until now means nothing other than then you got it for free for a few years and are now several dollars ahead of the game. Secure it to the dock, or make application, write the check and put it behind you. It is what it is...

06-25-2007, 12:06 PM	#13
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	In this context a mooring is permanent or at least seasonal. An anchor is temporary. At the very least it is removed when the boat is removed. My guess is that you could anchor your jet ski with your makeshift anchor and remove the anchor when you ride the jetski. That seems to conforms to the letter of the law. Now can you leave the jetski anchored overnight in front of your dock? That's different question. One that we have discussed before.

06-25-2007, 12:13 PM	#14
TomC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 547 Thanks: 9 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	There is an association three or four lots over from me. They have a dock that would normally hold 3-4 boats along its length (the dock looks like it is maybe 75-80' long). To maximize its boat storing ability, they appear to have sunk some sort of attachment points (anchors, mooring weights?) in 5 places about 20 feet off the dock along side of it. People attach the bow of their boat to the dock via the ring or center cleat, then grab a rope at the stern which goes below the water (they are attached to bleach bottle floats) and fasten to the transom eye(s). This way they get 5 boats on the dock instead of 3 or 4 (and as a perhaps unintended benefit, they have their boats protected from dock rash in this way, too). Are those stern attachment points moorings as well? I am only curious- this situation in no way bothers me, so i'm not going to report them...

06-25-2007, 12:52 PM	#16
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	I have used an anchor as an off-set when tieing to some friend's dock. I used to prefer to leave the line in the water and fish it out with a hook. You can put a loop in your line and hang it to the dock if you'd rather. Either way, as long as that float isnt there catching anyone's eye, you should be okay. Might not be striclty within the letter of the law though, as Skip pointed out. Good luck!

06-25-2007, 01:17 PM	#17
_C_H_R_I_S_ Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you all for the input...Very good points all around. I did call the department and they said that whoever gave the information before hand saying that it was fine was wrong and that it is considered a mooring. I thought or at least was hoping I kind of made sense with what I was saying and thinking but I was wrong haha. I will look into the permit and hope they can do it soon because it wouldnt be cool if they towed it while I was waiting on them...Thanks again - Have a great day and summer.

06-25-2007, 03:17 PM	#19
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,535 Thanks: 1,059 Thanked 652 Times in 363 Posts	Mooring line to dock I was told that you may not have a "pulley" type of arrangement for mooring your boat. In other words a ring attached to a looped rope where you attach your boat and you use the pulley to pull your boat out to where the anchor is. Is this Ok or not? We have a permit for the mooring ball.

06-25-2007, 03:49 PM	#20
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,360 Thanks: 210 Thanked 764 Times in 448 Posts	According to the actual mooring application that must be filed, permits for moorings used for PWC, sunfish, jet skis, canoes, rowboats, etc will not be issued. (unless under special circumstances as stated) When I applied for our moorings they would not allow us to use our PWC as registered vessels towards determining our need for the 2 moorings we have. I am not sure how associations such as South Down can get away with it. Here is the link to the application we had to file: http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...ngs/forms.html

06-25-2007, 05:14 PM	#22
Gavia immer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 193 Thanks: 21 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	One town, at least, will collect a second mooring fee over and above the NH mooring fee. I'd check, it's a 2nd fee, collected annually. I see several options. You could have a "tie-off" piling driven to one side of your dock -- probably much less than $500 towards the end of the season. No permit is needed for driving a single piling. There is a electric lift that gets attached to the dock -- $1000, but they appear used for less than half that on www.nhcraigslist.com. You could use one or two mooring whips -- $125 for one. Or use lag bolts and attach a 2X6 to the dock to use for the bow -- $18. Depending on the cost of the lag bolts.

06-25-2007, 06:24 PM	#23
Islander Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 321 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts	Are you sure that a single piling does not require a permit? That is interesting news if true.

06-25-2007, 06:58 PM	#24
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	here are the rules, have fun! (Search for dolphin) http://www.des.state.nh.us/rules/env-wt100-800.pdf It does seem that a single piling is a minor project not a minimum impact and does require a permit. It does not seem to be something that you can even use the permit by notification shortcut. But it is a slog to read and I could be wrong.

06-26-2007, 07:47 AM	#26
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	I had a friend get a ticket for leaving his PWC on his mooring.Boats only I guess.Here's the rub though,This PWC is registered as a boat!Hmm. __________________ SIKSUKR