2-Stroke Restrictions

Vwjay · 07-22-2015, 07:01 AM

Are there currently any restrictions on 2-stoke powered boats or PWCs on Lake Winnipesaukee? I'm an avid boater in the Long Island NY area and have a planned trip to lake Winnipesaukee this Aug with several other boaters. However currently my only operating boats have 2-stoke outboards. My 3.0L powered Starcraft is being prepped for a re-power and won't be ready for the trip. My concern is many areas are banning 2-stoke water craft on fresh water lakes. And I'd rather not trailer my boat or Jetski all the way to NH to find out I can't use it. Also are there any tourist or traveler use permits required for out of state boaters? Parks passes or ramp use permits that I would need to get on the lake legally? Or just current registration in my home state? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Look forward to some lake boating for this summer.

Dave R · 07-22-2015, 07:39 AM

There are no 2 stroke restrictions and no special permits needed (unlike Lake George, for instance). You do need a NASBLA boating certificate though. I hope you have a great time and spend lots of money locally.

SIKSUKR · 07-22-2015, 07:42 AM

There are no 2-stroke restrictions. Some lakes, mostly small ponds have pwc bans but those are only on 2 seaters or less. Winni does have a few small coves with that restriction. A 3 seater is considered a boat in NH so it can be operated anywhere boats are allowed. You can use any public ramp that allow boats without a permit. You do need a boaters certificate if one you hold from another state is not accepted. These can be had at most marinas when you rent there but I'm not sure if you don't. Marine Patrol headquarters for NH is located right on the lake so you could check with them before you arrive.

Lakeboater · 07-22-2015, 08:35 AM

I believe that the Marine Patrol Headquarters has been temporarily moved to the jail property off of Rte 106 in Laconia. This is just while they construct the new lakefront building.

Vwjay · 07-22-2015, 08:43 AM

That's great news. I do hold a NYS boaters Saftey License/permit. Required for PWCs in NYS, suggested but not required for boaters born before 1996. I'll check with the marine patrol if that's acceptable or not. I appreciate the responses. Looking forward to the fresh water lake expierence. Only other lake I boated on was Lake Tahoe.

AC2717 · 07-22-2015, 08:49 AM

as long as it is NASBLA approved you are all set

HellRaZoR004 · 07-22-2015, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vwjay

That's great news. I do hold a NYS boaters Saftey License/permit. Required for PWCs in NYS, suggested but not required for boaters born before 1996. I'll check with the marine patrol if that's acceptable or not. I appreciate the responses. Looking forward to the fresh water lake expierence. Only other lake I boated on was Lake Tahoe.

How did you like Lake Tahoe? I love it out there but have only been during the winter...

I imaging Lake Winnipesaukee is much warmer.

Vwjay · 07-22-2015, 09:57 AM

It was real nice, beautiful blue water, awesome scenery. Cold though, water was 55-60 degs and that was in July. And because it's so large it had surf at times just like the ocean.

DesertDweller · 07-22-2015, 10:25 AM

Lake Tahoe never gets much above 70 degrees (surface temperature) so I am not surprised to hear your numbers. That is a really deep lake. Pretty sure it's 1500 feet deep in some spots.

Vwjay · 07-22-2015, 11:46 AM

Another quick question. How are the public ramps? Are they well enough maintained and engineered that I could use my 04 Toyota Sienna to launch and recover my boat? Or do I need my full size 4x4 diesel Blazer to get it and out? I'll most likely be bringing my 16' fiberglass boat or 3 seater Seadoo PWC.

On another note, I checked with NYS Parks and it appears my Boaters Saftey certificate is indeed NASBLA approved. One less thing to worry about.

VitaBene · 07-22-2015, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vwjay

Another quick question. How are the public ramps? Are they well enough maintained and engineered that I could use my 04 Toyota Sienna to launch and recover my boat? Or do I need my full size 4x4 diesel Blazer to get it and out? I'll most likely be bringing my 16' fiberglass boat or 3 seater Seadoo PWC.

On another note, I checked with NYS Parks and it appears my Boaters Saftey certificate is indeed NASBLA approved. One less thing to worry about.

Most ramps on the lake are in decent shape and not overly steep. The Siena should be fine!

Have a great vacation!!

Vwjay · 07-22-2015, 04:47 PM

Great, thanks

fatlazyless · 07-23-2015, 06:39 AM

Don't the Marine Patrol's patrol boats use twin 200-hp two-strokes, so what's the deal with not allowing two-stroke outboards? Winnipesaukee is a big lake, and except for the sunny summer weekends, it is basically empty of hardly any boats for most of the time, on a year-round basis.

chipj29 · 07-23-2015, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Don't the Marine Patrol's patrol boats use twin 200-hp two-strokes, so what's the deal with not allowing two-stroke outboards? Winnipesaukee is a big lake, and except for the sunny summer weekends, it is basically empty of hardly any boats for most of the time, on a year-round basis.

As I am sure you already know, 2-stroke outboards are perfectly legal. The OP is from out of state and was just asking the question, as 2-strokes are actually illegal in some states.

AC2717 · 07-23-2015, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vwjay

Another quick question. How are the public ramps? Are they well enough maintained and engineered that I could use my 04 Toyota Sienna to launch and recover my boat? Or do I need my full size 4x4 diesel Blazer to get it and out? I'll most likely be bringing my 16' fiberglass boat or 3 seater Seadoo PWC.

On another note, I checked with NYS Parks and it appears my Boaters Saftey certificate is indeed NASBLA approved. One less thing to worry about.

All set with the license then
also Meredith and center harbor launches would be just fine for the minivan with a 16 or a pwc

Vwjay · 07-24-2015, 08:35 PM

Ordered a Bizer chart to try to familiarize myself with the area before the trip. I believe I'm staying on Mark Island. Will be nice to know what's around and where the problem areas are beforehand.

dpg · 07-28-2015, 11:00 AM

I'm really not much into boating but haven't they stopped selling two stroke motors? Thought I heard they were phasing out their usage but that would be over a good number of years because so many people owned them or something like that?

Dave R · 07-28-2015, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpg

I'm really not much into boating but haven't they stopped selling two stroke motors? Thought I heard they were phasing out their usage but that would be over a good number of years because so many people owned them or something like that?

Evinrude Etec outboards are two stroke and widely available. Old fashioned two strokes are hard to find because they produce too many emissions to be legal, but the law only states the allowable emissions, not the required technology to meet the standards. Evinrude figured out how to make them run cleanly despite being two strokes.

dpg · 07-28-2015, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

Evinrude Etec outboards are two stroke and widely available. Old fashioned two strokes are hard to find because they produce too many emissions to be legal, but the law only states the allowable emissions, not the required technology to meet the standards. Evinrude figured out how to make them run cleanly despite being two strokes.

So there's no restrictions on using a 25 yr old two stroke is there?

Dave R · 07-28-2015, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpg

So there's no restrictions on using a 25 yr old two stroke is there?

Nope. That motor is so under-stressed that it will typically last forever too.

loony · 07-29-2015, 07:35 AM

don't forget to get familiar with the unique hazard marking system in NH.
basically go north an east of a white with black top and south and west of a white with red top marker. Solid black and red markers indicate a channel so you go between them. A white/black near a white/red is not a channel so you go around both of them. You must also go no wake speed if you're within 150ft of basically anything.

fatlazyless · 07-29-2015, 08:01 AM

There's a guy in craigslist.nh in Allenstown who sells old Johnson and Evinrude outboards for aprox $250-750, size 2-10-hp., 1955-1974 He has about 30 different motors in stock, and he replaces the needed parts with new parts made by OMC.

His name is either Johnny Johnson, or Dr. Evinrude ...... cannot remember?

Just go to craigslist.nh, boats, and do a search for Allenstown to see photos. For $300, I got a 1967 Johnson 3 1/2-hp 20" shaft for a sailboat, and it beats the pants off a 2015 Honda 3 1/2-hp four stroke. OIl ration is 25:1, and it runs great on blue Wal-Mart 2-stroke Tech oil for $3.94/quart which will easily last all summer.

Old 2-strokes can last forever if they were made by OMC.

Probably, if he sold these in California, he would go to jail ...... but here in New Hampshire, it's a different story ..... Live Free or Die! What the heck.....even the NH Marine Patrol runs with 200-hp two-strokes?

ursa minor · 07-29-2015, 09:27 AM

Just for clarity, there's a big difference between older 2 strokes (carbureted or fuel injected) and the newer 2 stroke engines. Mercury uses a low pressure air injection in their Optimax engines (these are what the Marine Patrol runs on several of their patrol boats), Tohatsu has a similar LPDI system for some of their engines. Yamaha had several high pressure direct injected two stroke engines in production a few years ago, not sure if they still manufacture these. Evinrude E-Tec engines are all high pressure direct injected and are EPA 3 star rated for emissions which is equivalent to or better than ratings for 4 stroke engines (depending on size and manufacturer). The "new tech" 2 strokes are typically significantly lighter than the same HP engine in a 4 stroke. Weight can be a big factor especially when trying to repower an older boat so it's good that "new tech" 2 strokes are available.

Any of the newer 2 strokes mentioned above have almost zero smoke / odor, nothing like the old school engines. I had a Mercury 115 "tower of power' back in the day, on a cold start it looked like the boat was on fire!

SIKSUKR · 07-29-2015, 12:18 PM

Even my older(2004) Yamaha pwc had oil injection and never smoked.

tbonies · 07-29-2015, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

There are no 2-stroke restrictions. Some lakes, mostly small ponds have pwc bans but those are only on 2 seaters or less. Winni does have a few small coves with that restriction. A 3 seater is considered a boat in NH so it can be operated anywhere boats are allowed. You can use any public ramp that allow boats without a permit. You do need a boaters certificate if one you hold from another state is not accepted. These can be had at most marinas when you rent there but I'm not sure if you don't. Marine Patrol headquarters for NH is located right on the lake so you could check with them before you arrive.

What coves on Lake Winni have a restriction that prohibits 3 seat PWCs? I have never heard of this.

upthesaukee · 07-29-2015, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbonies

What coves on Lake Winni have a restriction that prohibits 3 seat PWCs? I have never heard of this.

3 seat PWC's are considered boats. There are restrictions for PWCs with less than 3 seats. Not having a PWC, I can't give you chapter and verse of where the restrictions are.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

SIKSUKR · 07-30-2015, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbonies

What coves on Lake Winni have a restriction that prohibits 3 seat PWCs? I have never heard of this.

You need to reread my post.I said nothing about restrictions on 3 up pwc's.

Vwjay · 08-08-2015, 07:00 PM

So here's a question I now have. Since the state of NH considers 3 seat PWCs boats. Can they be lit and operated at night? Or is there still a night time restriction on them?

fatlazyless · 08-09-2015, 07:10 AM

That's a great question ...... attach a red/green plus a white light and use your 'pwc/3-seater NH boat' as a boat with navigation lights for boating at night...... seems reasonable?

With the New Hampshire Republicans now in the majority, maybe a donation to the NH Marine Trades Assoc., a boat dealer lobbyist group in Gilford, could make this night navigation item become the law? If they can define a 3-seater pwc to be a boat then ......

Believe a paddle canoe or paddle kayak only needs a single white light which can be a small battery lantern or even a just a candle lantern.

chipj29 · 08-09-2015, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vwjay

So here's a question I now have. Since the state of NH considers 3 seat PWCs boats. Can they be lit and operated at night? Or is there still a night time restriction on them?

The answer is no, you can not run them at night.

Woodsy · 08-09-2015, 05:15 PM

We should ask the MP...

But I do believe if the proper lights are attached, the PWC can be legally operated at night BECAUSE they are classified as a boat and registered accordingly. I have seen several PWC's with a "light kit" out at night...

Woodsy

Vwjay · 08-09-2015, 09:37 PM

I'm not sure I'd actually do the lights. But I'm intrigued enough that I may reach out to the MP just to hear what they have to say.

chipj29 · 08-10-2015, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vwjay

I'm not sure I'd actually do the lights. But I'm intrigued enough that I may reach out to the MP just to hear what they have to say.

I just found a thread on this forum that covers this topic.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=13943

FWP · 08-10-2015, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

The answer is no, you can not run them at night.

Question ? can you absoulty prove that statement ?

fatlazyless · 08-10-2015, 11:05 AM

You know the Gilford-Laconia Wal-Mart had a couple sets of these red-green/white battery operated, after-market, l.e.d. boat navigation lights in the marked-down discontinued section of their boating section with the red discount pricing ..... just the other day...... whoa-baby!.

SIKSUKR · 08-10-2015, 12:06 PM

Looks like the answer is yes according to the MP.

chipj29 · 08-11-2015, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWP

Question ? can you absoulty prove that statement ?

Nope, not since I read the link that I posted

Vwjay · 08-27-2015, 07:26 PM

Returned from my trip. Was a great time. It was a bit of a learning curve with the red/white and black/white buoy systems. And there was a lot well hidden rocks but a good trip none the less. Would definitely comeback again. But next time with a GPS unit and a lake card.

07-22-2015, 07:01 AM	#1
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	2-Stroke Restrictions Are there currently any restrictions on 2-stoke powered boats or PWCs on Lake Winnipesaukee? I'm an avid boater in the Long Island NY area and have a planned trip to lake Winnipesaukee this Aug with several other boaters. However currently my only operating boats have 2-stoke outboards. My 3.0L powered Starcraft is being prepped for a re-power and won't be ready for the trip. My concern is many areas are banning 2-stoke water craft on fresh water lakes. And I'd rather not trailer my boat or Jetski all the way to NH to find out I can't use it. Also are there any tourist or traveler use permits required for out of state boaters? Parks passes or ramp use permits that I would need to get on the lake legally? Or just current registration in my home state? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Look forward to some lake boating for this summer.

07-22-2015, 07:42 AM	#3
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	There are no 2-stroke restrictions. Some lakes, mostly small ponds have pwc bans but those are only on 2 seaters or less. Winni does have a few small coves with that restriction. A 3 seater is considered a boat in NH so it can be operated anywhere boats are allowed. You can use any public ramp that allow boats without a permit. You do need a boaters certificate if one you hold from another state is not accepted. These can be had at most marinas when you rent there but I'm not sure if you don't. Marine Patrol headquarters for NH is located right on the lake so you could check with them before you arrive. __________________ SIKSUKR

07-22-2015, 08:35 AM	#4
Lakeboater Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 391 Thanks: 20 Thanked 130 Times in 93 Posts	Prison property I believe that the Marine Patrol Headquarters has been temporarily moved to the jail property off of Rte 106 in Laconia. This is just while they construct the new lakefront building.

07-22-2015, 08:49 AM	#6
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,521 Thanks: 747 Thanked 344 Times in 257 Posts	as long as it is NASBLA approved you are all set __________________ Capt. of the "No Worries"

07-23-2015, 06:39 AM	#13
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Don't the Marine Patrol's patrol boats use twin 200-hp two-strokes, so what's the deal with not allowing two-stroke outboards? Winnipesaukee is a big lake, and except for the sunny summer weekends, it is basically empty of hardly any boats for most of the time, on a year-round basis. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

07-22-2015, 07:39 AM	#2
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,974 Thanks: 246 Thanked 736 Times in 438 Posts	There are no 2 stroke restrictions and no special permits needed (unlike Lake George, for instance). You do need a NASBLA boating certificate though. I hope you have a great time and spend lots of money locally.

07-22-2015, 08:43 AM	#5
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That's great news. I do hold a NYS boaters Saftey License/permit. Required for PWCs in NYS, suggested but not required for boaters born before 1996. I'll check with the marine patrol if that's acceptable or not. I appreciate the responses. Looking forward to the fresh water lake expierence. Only other lake I boated on was Lake Tahoe.

07-22-2015, 09:57 AM	#8
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It was real nice, beautiful blue water, awesome scenery. Cold though, water was 55-60 degs and that was in July. And because it's so large it had surf at times just like the ocean.

07-22-2015, 10:25 AM	#9
DesertDweller Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Las Vegas, NV and Moultonborough, NH Posts: 361 Thanks: 24 Thanked 84 Times in 70 Posts	Lake Tahoe never gets much above 70 degrees (surface temperature) so I am not surprised to hear your numbers. That is a really deep lake. Pretty sure it's 1500 feet deep in some spots.

07-22-2015, 11:46 AM	#10
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another quick question. How are the public ramps? Are they well enough maintained and engineered that I could use my 04 Toyota Sienna to launch and recover my boat? Or do I need my full size 4x4 diesel Blazer to get it and out? I'll most likely be bringing my 16' fiberglass boat or 3 seater Seadoo PWC. On another note, I checked with NYS Parks and it appears my Boaters Saftey certificate is indeed NASBLA approved. One less thing to worry about.

07-22-2015, 04:47 PM	#12
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Great, thanks

07-24-2015, 08:35 PM	#16
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ordered a Bizer chart to try to familiarize myself with the area before the trip. I believe I'm staying on Mark Island. Will be nice to know what's around and where the problem areas are beforehand.

07-28-2015, 11:00 AM	#17
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,560 Thanks: 149 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	I'm really not much into boating but haven't they stopped selling two stroke motors? Thought I heard they were phasing out their usage but that would be over a good number of years because so many people owned them or something like that?

07-29-2015, 07:35 AM	#21
loony Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 101 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	don't forget to get familiar with the unique hazard marking system in NH. basically go north an east of a white with black top and south and west of a white with red top marker. Solid black and red markers indicate a channel so you go between them. A white/black near a white/red is not a channel so you go around both of them. You must also go no wake speed if you're within 150ft of basically anything. Attached Images

07-29-2015, 08:01 AM	#22
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	There's a guy in craigslist.nh in Allenstown who sells old Johnson and Evinrude outboards for aprox $250-750, size 2-10-hp., 1955-1974 He has about 30 different motors in stock, and he replaces the needed parts with new parts made by OMC. His name is either Johnny Johnson, or Dr. Evinrude ...... cannot remember? Just go to craigslist.nh, boats, and do a search for Allenstown to see photos. For $300, I got a 1967 Johnson 3 1/2-hp 20" shaft for a sailboat, and it beats the pants off a 2015 Honda 3 1/2-hp four stroke. OIl ration is 25:1, and it runs great on blue Wal-Mart 2-stroke Tech oil for $3.94/quart which will easily last all summer. Old 2-strokes can last forever if they were made by OMC. Probably, if he sold these in California, he would go to jail ...... but here in New Hampshire, it's a different story ..... Live Free or Die! What the heck.....even the NH Marine Patrol runs with 200-hp two-strokes? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

07-29-2015, 09:27 AM	#23
ursa minor Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tuftonborough & Franklin MA Posts: 265 Thanks: 99 Thanked 143 Times in 64 Posts	Just for clarity, there's a big difference between older 2 strokes (carbureted or fuel injected) and the newer 2 stroke engines. Mercury uses a low pressure air injection in their Optimax engines (these are what the Marine Patrol runs on several of their patrol boats), Tohatsu has a similar LPDI system for some of their engines. Yamaha had several high pressure direct injected two stroke engines in production a few years ago, not sure if they still manufacture these. Evinrude E-Tec engines are all high pressure direct injected and are EPA 3 star rated for emissions which is equivalent to or better than ratings for 4 stroke engines (depending on size and manufacturer). The "new tech" 2 strokes are typically significantly lighter than the same HP engine in a 4 stroke. Weight can be a big factor especially when trying to repower an older boat so it's good that "new tech" 2 strokes are available. Any of the newer 2 strokes mentioned above have almost zero smoke / odor, nothing like the old school engines. I had a Mercury 115 "tower of power' back in the day, on a cold start it looked like the boat was on fire! __________________ " Any day with a boat ride in it is a good day" Last edited by ursa minor; 07-30-2015 at 02:17 PM.

07-29-2015, 12:18 PM	#24
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Even my older(2004) Yamaha pwc had oil injection and never smoked. __________________ SIKSUKR

The Following User Says Thank You to SIKSUKR For This Useful Post:
upthesaukee (07-30-2015)

08-08-2015, 07:00 PM	#28
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So here's a question I now have. Since the state of NH considers 3 seat PWCs boats. Can they be lit and operated at night? Or is there still a night time restriction on them?

08-09-2015, 07:10 AM	#29
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	That's a great question ...... attach a red/green plus a white light and use your 'pwc/3-seater NH boat' as a boat with navigation lights for boating at night...... seems reasonable? With the New Hampshire Republicans now in the majority, maybe a donation to the NH Marine Trades Assoc., a boat dealer lobbyist group in Gilford, could make this night navigation item become the law? If they can define a 3-seater pwc to be a boat then ...... Believe a paddle canoe or paddle kayak only needs a single white light which can be a small battery lantern or even a just a candle lantern. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

08-09-2015, 05:15 PM	#31
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,948 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	We should ask the MP... But I do believe if the proper lights are attached, the PWC can be legally operated at night BECAUSE they are classified as a boat and registered accordingly. I have seen several PWC's with a "light kit" out at night... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-09-2015, 09:37 PM	#32
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm not sure I'd actually do the lights. But I'm intrigued enough that I may reach out to the MP just to hear what they have to say.

08-10-2015, 11:05 AM	#35
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	You know the Gilford-Laconia Wal-Mart had a couple sets of these red-green/white battery operated, after-market, l.e.d. boat navigation lights in the marked-down discontinued section of their boating section with the red discount pricing ..... just the other day...... whoa-baby!. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

08-10-2015, 12:06 PM	#36
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Looks like the answer is yes according to the MP. __________________ SIKSUKR

08-27-2015, 07:26 PM	#38
Vwjay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Returned from my trip. Was a great time. It was a bit of a learning curve with the red/white and black/white buoy systems. And there was a lot well hidden rocks but a good trip none the less. Would definitely comeback again. But next time with a GPS unit and a lake card.

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