Mooring

[RUGMAN]

I inquired about mooring, Having 50 feet of frontage, wanting to get a mooring permit, having a 25 foot boat is a problem?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by RUGMAN

I inquired about mooring, Having 50 feet of frontage, wanting to get a mooring permit, having a 25 foot boat is a problem?

If your mooring chain has any scope at all, it's going to be in front of one neighbor or the other. (Unless you have no neighbors, or live on a point of land).

.

[TiltonBB]

I am not sure about the rules. Someone will have them.

What I see as a potential problem is when you put a 5 foot line on the mooring your boat will swing a total of 60 feet. Will that interfere with your neighbors navigation?

The weekly rental property next to mine has 40 feet of frontage and they have a mooring. Depending upon the size of the boat that their renter shows up with, and the length of the line they secure it with, it may spend a lot of time in front of my house. I haven't mentioned it..............yet.

[thinkxingu]

It would seem to make sense that since only a waterfront owner/association can get a mooring, that the expectation would be not interfering with the neighbors to either side, and that a mooring in the middle of a 50' frontage would allow 25' either side, total.

Aside of the tie-up line, how much does a mooring ball stray from center regularly?

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[LIforrelaxin]

While I agree with APS that we all pay for a view, we all also pay for the right to have access to the lake. with 50' of frontage you are allowed a dock, and I am sure that you can get a mooring permit.

With the idea of not wanting to have issues with neighbors you would want to make sure that the mooring was right in the middle.... being a lake and not tidal waters, you can get away with out much scope... the issue becomes the leader which at a minimum is going to be 3 feet....

Thus to "truely" stay in front of your property you limit your boat side....
However once again that is the reason for the permit to make sure you aren't going to unreasonably inconvenience your neighbor....

Additionally if you have a neighbor who complains because you have a few friends come over that tie up in raft formation from your dock and the end boat crosses over the implied boundary, then you could always keep a lead line to shore attached to your boat to limit its swing..... and keep crabby neighbors at bay....

[Knomad]

Check with NH Department of Safety Administrative Rules under SAF C408.09

SAF-C408.09.b talks about restrictions as to where you can put the mooring.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

If your mooring chain has any scope at all, it's going to be in front of one neighbor or the other. (Unless you have no neighbors, or live on a point of land).

.

You pay for waterfront land not the view or water in front of it. Right or wrong, that is how it is. I don't know how someone could quantify a view. People in NYC think they have a view (I say what view). Water frontage can be measured.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

You pay for waterfront land not the view or water in front of it. Right or wrong, that is how it is. I don't know how someone could quantify a view. People in NYC think they have a view (I say what view). Water frontage can be measured.

You'd be hard pressed to convince folks that have waterfront or water view property that their tax bill doesn't reflect the fact they can see the water......

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

You'd be hard pressed to convince folks that have waterfront or water view property that their tax bill doesn't reflect the fact they can see the water......

I understand that the view from a property may affect the property value, however, you can only really be taxed on the property that you own. We have seen enough discussions on this forum about who owns the water on the Lake to know that the taxpayers of NH do. Many of us have had neighbors whom have negatively impacted our views (and in our minds the value) from our windows, but the tax man doesn't care!

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I understand that the view from a property may affect the property value, however, you can only really be taxed on the property that you own. We have seen enough discussions on this forum about who owns the water on the Lake to know that the taxpayers of NH do. Many of us have had neighbors whom have negatively impacted our views (and in our minds the value) from our windows, but the tax man doesn't care!

I agree VB!! My point exactly...the assessors rule.

[RUGMAN]

Spoke to marine patrol office, they said they would have to do a site visit in the spring to see if I can get one, My boat is 23-6 in length. May end up only being able to use my dock with whips.Thanks for all the input.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I understand that the view from a property may affect the property value, however, you can only really be taxed on the property that you own. We have seen enough discussions on this forum about who owns the water on the Lake to know that the taxpayers of NH do. Many of us have had neighbors whom have negatively impacted our views (and in our minds the value) from our windows, but the tax man doesn't care!

Yes, you can "only be taxed on the property that you own." But you are taxed on the fair market value of that property.

If that value is increased because of the location, view, frontage, topography, or whatever, that will be reflected in the taxable value. There is no "view tax" or "waterfront tax" but if your property is more valuable because of these things it's assessed value, and tax bill, will be higher. It is very simple.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Yes, you can "only be taxed on the property that you own." But you are taxed on the fair market value of that property.

If that value is increased because of the location, view, frontage, topography, or whatever, that will be reflected in the taxable value. There is no "view tax" or "waterfront tax" but if your property is more valuable because of these things it's assessed value, and tax bill, will be higher. It is very simple.

Tilton: Thanks. Why is this concept so difficult for folks to wrap their minds around?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Tilton: Thanks. Why is this concept so difficult for folks to wrap their minds around?

I think people wrap their minds around it just fine- this post is about a mooring. If your neighbor's boat is on a mooring; that may swing in front of your house, there is not an assessor in the world that will lower the assessed value of your home.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I think people wrap their minds around it just fine- this post is about a mooring."

Sorry. I didn't realize the Forum rules specified one must stay on a single topic. Congratulations on being promoted to the Forum Police Department.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Sorry. I didn't realize the Forum rules specified one must stay on a single topic. Congratulations on being promoted to the Forum Police Department.

Is your role as the Designated Forum Nit-Picker as rewarding as you had hoped?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I think people wrap their minds around it just fine- this post is about a mooring. If your neighbor's boat is on a mooring; that may swing in front of your house, there is not an assessor in the world that will lower the assessed value of your home.

1) I've been present during a assessor's visit, and think they can be swayed by a reasonable argument. (Although I failed to express my own concerns at the time).

2) A long-time buddy called—also a long-time member of this forum, who's never posted—and expressed a solution having zero-movement to a mooring buoy. I'll give him a couple of weeks to join the discussion; otherwise, I'll steal the idea.


.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by RUGMAN

Spoke to marine patrol office, they said they would have to do a site visit in the spring to see if I can get one, My boat is 23-6 in length. May end up only being able to use my dock with whips.Thanks for all the input.

Well it sounds like your doing the right thing... Apply for the morning, and see what they say.... It may also help your cause to talk to your neighbors and see what they say about your plan... (this assumes you are on good terms with your neighbors)..... because including approving comments from neighbors is going to only help your cause....

Note I have a couple of Neighbors with 50' of water front both have moorings...

[V ger]

WINNI-MOOR.pdf

WINNI-MOOR-DETAIL.pdf
I would like to submit the these drawings as a suggestion to limit the swing of a moored boat.

[fatlazyless]

Having noticed that some mooring balls are 18" diameter, and others are 12" diameter, am wondering what's the thinking when deciding whether to go with one size or the other? Also, was surprised to see a 12" mooring ball at Heath's Hardware, made by Taylor-Made, cost the incredibly high price of 129.95, and that's not including any attached line or swivel hardware ..... that's a lot of money for a 12" flotation ball ...... like why not just use an old clorox bottle and some 3/8" el cheapo yellow poly line and make a loop figure-8 knot.... which is very strong, durable and very lo-price. Believe Fay's sells a 200-lb concrete mooring block for $40.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by RUGMAN

I inquired about mooring, Having 50 feet of frontage, wanting to get a mooring permit, having a 25 foot boat is a problem?

Member V-ger's idea:



_____________________________________

•​ I'd be concerned that NHMP would charge for two moorings, plus, it would nearly double your expenses—but any neighbors with undersized lots should approve of the arrangement. (Especially if they can share an anchor and installation costs).

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Having noticed that some mooring balls are 18" diameter, and others are 12" diameter, am wondering what's the thinking when deciding whether to go with one size or the other? Also, was surprised to see a 12" mooring ball at Heath's Hardware, made by Taylor-Made, cost the incredibly high price of 129.95, and that's not including any attached line or swivel hardware ..... that's a lot of money for a 12" flotation ball ...... like why not just use an old clorox bottle and some 3/8" el cheapo yellow poly line and make a loop figure-8 knot.... which is very strong, durable and very lo-price. Believe Fay's sells a 200-lb concrete mooring block for $40.

​​​•​ ​Two hundred pounds weighs a scant 100 pounds underwater—hardly suitable for the extreme weather "cells" we occasionally experience. After severe weather happens, you'd be looking for your boat or swim float!

​​​•​ ​Polypropylene line, especially as it floats, is subject to getting run over, is prone to ultraviolet degradation and, as a mooring line, should be changed every season. A good point is that a Chlorox bottle is easy to see and would make your mooring permit easier to see—when they come looking. I'd take a few turns of line around the handle and epoxy it to reduce friction and wear.

•​ The size of the mooring ball is determined by the weight of the chain securing the boat. (We used heavy woven line and a cork float).

•​ Nearly all of the mooring balls that I've rescued had a center shaft that was nearly rusted-through. Were they "changed out" then wind-blown off a dock?


•​ Member V-ger informs me of the availability of concrete "Habitat Moorings". They're located out of Maine, and sell to saltwater customers. Still, I wonder if scaled-down "habitat moorings" were plentiful in Lake Winnipesaukee—if the State would use them as well—would our crayfish population return?

•​ Does The Neptune Society know of these?




•​ The cousin of the crayfish, the Lobster, aggressively defend their concrete lairs!



.

[V ger]

The attached information reflects common costal practices that would give the lake boater a reliable mooring for years. The installer may want to modify how a mooring is installed to suit the local or length of use.

[V ger]

A mooring is determined by the number of surface connections not the number of anchors.

Like most plastic cleaning fluid bottles bleach bottles are most often made of HDPE so epoxy is not likely to stick to them.

CFR 33.62.35 Mooring buoys are white with a blue horizontal band......
The NH boating guide shows the same.

Will the bleach bottle be equipped with a blue horizontal band?

Was the woven line actually a braided line?

If an "overhand loop" is used to attach a line to a ring or shackle it should be cow hitched to provide more bearing area and less abrasion producing motion.

[V ger]

Example of bridle style mooring pendant

[Senter Cove Guy]

Originally Posted by RUGMAN

Spoke to marine patrol office, they said they would have to do a site visit in the spring to see if I can get one, My boat is 23-6 in length. May end up only being able to use my dock with whips.Thanks for all the input.

What was the final result? Just curious.

[RUGMAN]

Got it, I was glad I did.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Well it sounds like your doing the right thing... Apply for the morning, and see what they say.... It may also help your cause to talk to your neighbors and see what they say about your plan... (this assumes you are on good terms with your neighbors)..... because including approving comments from neighbors is going to only help your cause....

Note I have a couple of Neighbors with 50' of water front both have moorings...

The neighbor has 40 feet of frontage and rents the property out weekly all summer long. He is not on the property during the summer. I have 100 feet of frontage. This boat with the attached jet ski was there for a week this summer although there have been many other times that boats on his mooring were swinging in front of my property for a week.

What to do? This picture is my deck and docks and my boat is in a boathouse and comes out between them when backing out. What would you do?

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The neighbor has 40 feet of frontage and rents the property out weekly all summer long. He is not on the property during the summer. I have 100 feet of frontage. This boat with the attached jet ski was there for a week this summer although there have been many other times that boats on his mooring were swinging in front of my property for a week.

What to do? This picture is my deck and docks and my boat is in a boathouse and comes out between them when backing out. What would you do?

THAT doesn't seem right! You, my good man, or lady, are a saint!

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The neighbor has 40 feet of frontage and rents the property out weekly all summer long. He is not on the property during the summer. I have 100 feet of frontage. This boat with the attached jet ski was there for a week this summer although there have been many other times that boats on his mooring were swinging in front of my property for a week.

What to do? This picture is my deck and docks and my boat is in a boathouse and comes out between them when backing out. What would you do?

i'd talk to my neighbor and show him the picture and explain the problem. Hopefully, he is reasonable.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

"...What to do? This picture is my deck and docks and my boat is in a boathouse and comes out between them when backing out.
What would you do...?"

• Before confronting your neighbor with the problem, research what the other abutting neighbor is experiencing, and what was done about it.

• Offer to buy your neighbor a new mooring chain—then make it a really heavy mooring chain. (To pull renters' boats further towards the mooring block—and away from your dock).

• Lastly: modify your downwind dock to permit easier departures. (Cut a corner off).

This problem isn't going away and with boats progressively getting bigger on the lake, is likely to get worse at some time.

.

[RUGMAN]

looks like your neighbors mooring block is not in the middle of his property,based on what I had to go thru, the block should be in the middle, preventing the stern part of the boat from encroaching on abutters within reason. Your picture looks like almost the entire boat is on your property. I would speak to your neighbor and ask that mooring block be moved, The chain needs to have some slack in it. I would not buy your neighbor a new chain or modify your dock, you must pay big taxes to have that spot.

[TiltonBB]

Thank you for the suggestions.

Before I cut off any dock or buy gifts for the neighbor I would like to research more about the mooring regulations. I would be surprised if they can have boats on a mooring that impede a neighbor's navigation.

Since they have only 40 feet of frontage if there is a 25 foot boat on the mooring that swings 5 feet away from the mooring they are blocking 60 feet of frontage.

What is not evident in the picture is the dock on the left is 40 feet long and 12 feet wide and I can put a boat on that side too.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by RUGMAN

looks like your neighbors mooring block is not in the middle of his property,based on what I had to go thru, the block should be in the middle, preventing the stern part of the boat from encroaching on abutters within reason. Your picture looks like almost the entire boat is on your property. I would speak to your neighbor and ask that mooring block be moved, The chain needs to have some slack in it. I would not buy your neighbor a new chain or modify your dock, you must pay big taxes to have that spot.

I agree. Want them to alter their property, their lifestyle pulling in and out and most importantly want them to be the ones doing the work or paying for it because of someone else's problem/screw up?

Move the mooring so the boat sits in the right location and that's the end of it. If your neighbors not a total clown he/she shouldn't have an issue with that absolutely reasonable request of putting his own boat (or his renters) in front of his own house.

[SIKSUKR]

If thats one mooring then the pwc should not be on that hook.I'd start there.