Sailing Advice

secondcurve · 10-01-2007, 06:35 PM

I have decided to buy a small sailboat for next season and I am now starting the research part of the project. I am thinking about a sunfish or a Laser. The boat will be used on a small pond (150 acres +/-). Can anyone give me some help? What about the new versus used tradeoff? How about price, etc. Thanks in advance.

camp guy · 10-01-2007, 08:17 PM

If you are totally new to sailing, I'd suggest finding a dealer/marina, etc., you are comfortable with and asking them some of these questions. There is a big difference between a Sunfish and a Laser. Also, check with friends and relatives who may have some experience. Not knowing your age makes it difficult to answer, too. Personally, I would buy a used boat to start with and see how you like it. If the "bug bites", then go for it and look for a new model. Be sure and take a demonstration sail BEFORE you buy the boat. Good Luck to you, and remember, keep the pointy end forward.

fatlazyless · 10-01-2007, 08:42 PM

For the bargain basement, off-season low low price of just $2400. I'll sell my 11'11" Echo, which is in terrific shape and has multi-colored rainbow main and jibe, and mahogany rudder and dagger board. No trailer included, so stop by buoy 3 and yank it off the dock for a tow home. The C & L Echo has an easy-to-find picture-perfect website and is the training boat used to train 1st yearers in seamanship, or something, at the Canadian Naval Academy in Canada, somewhere. It's time for me to move up to either a Laser, Force 5, or a Laser 2, if I can find one for cheap.

Winnipesaukee · 10-02-2007, 06:20 PM

Buy used. $5000 for a brand new Laser is a waste unless you need a perfect hull and rig for racing. You get used ones for as little as $600 and up.

If you don't mind me asking, about what do the aspiring sailors weigh? The reason i ask is that some rigs may be too overpowered (such as the full size Laser for me; I sail a smaller-sail Radial). You may also weigh too much for the rig/hull.

You can't go wrong with a Sunfish, either. Might I recommend an O'Day Daysailor, Blue Jay, or an N-10 (aka National 10).

I think a Laser would be too fast for the lake (you'll have to change direction every few seconds). It is also NOT a boat for absolute beginners. If you get your heart set on one, though, take some sailing lessons. Then, when you're comfortable with the basics, a Laser would be no problem to handle. They're just too powerful and "tender." When you're learning the basic skills, you shouldn't have to worry about capsizing.

I say go for the Sunfish. It's more or less indestructable, easy to learn on, quick to rig, fun to sail and race, and there are tons of them for sale. They run about $3500 new--not worth it.

secondcurve · 10-02-2007, 07:34 PM

Thanks all for the advice. Faylazy, thanks for the offer, but I am not quite to the purchase stage yet. Winnipesaukee interesting advice. Sounds like given the size of the pond I'm on and the fact that I am a beginner, you'd point me to the Sunfish. I weigh 200 lbs +/-, but me and me and my siblings have a lot of young children 7-12 so they would be using the boat as well.

fatlazyless · 10-02-2007, 08:06 PM

Camp Rockywold over on Squam Lake, 968-3313, had an advertisement last week w/ kayaks, Sunfishes, and one Laser for sale. The asking price on the Laser was a low $500. and it sold immediately. Squam Lakes Conservation Society, 968-7900, on Rt 3 has a decent '79 Laser with a cover for $1500.

Hey, here's a deal, mention winnipesaukee.com, and the price on my Echo goes from 2400 to 2350!

Winnipesaukee · 10-02-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

but me and me and my siblings have a lot of young children 7-12 so they would be using the boat as well.

Sunfish for sure. My rationale is that especailly since kids will be using it, if they do capsize it, it will be a much easier recovery than, say, a Daysailor.

On a side note, No '79 Laser should never sell for $1500 unless it has a few new sails, perfect hull, and a dolly. For $1500 you can get one ten years newer.

Also, don't buy a Sunfish or Laser that was made between 1988 and 1991; Pearson Yachts drastically cut corners as they were going bankrupt. You might get some ugly hull problems. But you don't need to know that until you are really ready to buy.

Good luck! Sailing rocks!

ApS · 10-03-2007, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...Hey, here's a deal, mention winnipesaukee.com, and the price on my Echo goes from 2400 to 2350...!"

I think FLL has the decimal point in the wrong place!

(That said, at under 12' it would be exempt from annual registration "fees").

Having owned both a Sunfish and Laser, it's Sunfish hands-down—especially for such a tiny pond. Just seconds to launch from dock or beach, it's stable and no slouch as to speed. (There is a lot of speed tuning available—including the free "Jens rig" adjustment).

Sunfish (and the many Sunfish clones—"Clonefish") are available from www.Craigslist.com—complete from $300-up: consider that a new Sunfish sail is $250-up!

Both classes have active forums—especially hyper during the summer. Sunfish's is at www.sunfishforum.com.

Unless you understand airfoil dynamics, sailing is a complete mystery for beginners: even with only one sail, get two hour's training in a moderate breeze with a knowledgeable sailor.

fatlazyless · 10-03-2007, 06:29 AM

So, got any suggestion on how to get the seller to lower their price from $1500. down to 750. It's some type of non-profit conservation group that has a rental sailboat program on the side in Squam Lake.

I tried: "The only way you gonna get 1500 is when Ray Charles crawls outta the grave and wants to go sailing, and that's just because he's blind and rich! So, just stick a crowbar in yo wallet and lower yo price!"

It didn't work. The price is still 1500, which is maybe double what I can afford to pay what with New Hampshire's regressive tax system. The rich get fat and go power boating, and us poor slobs mess about in little sailboats.

SIKSUKR · 10-03-2007, 10:28 AM

FLL,maybe Judd Gregg can pay your $2400 price for the Echo with all his lottery winnings.With all the savings of not paying state tax,I'm sure that could go to the FLL poor slobs,poor me club.And by the way,I always thought of people owning sailboats as the rich.What do you know about that.

A little tongue in cheek folks

Winnipesaukee · 10-03-2007, 04:35 PM

Me: not rich.

ApS · 02-01-2008, 07:00 AM

I'm reading that Jeff Linton, who began sailing and racing with a Sunfish, was just announced as the 2007 Rolex Yachtsman of the Year. (This is a very prestigious acclaim among boaters).

Buy a $300 sailboat, and a few years later, walk off with a college scholarship—and a few years later, a trophy and a Rolex watch?

Only in A-mer-i-ca!

Nauset · 02-05-2008, 12:45 PM

Secondcurve, You may want to take a few lessons before investing any money. You will gain more insight into the kind of boat that is right for you and also to see if you actually like it. From the sound of it you may like something that you can take a few passengers out on.

froggy · 02-10-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nauset

Secondcurve, You may want to take a few lessons before investing any money. You will gain more insight into the kind of boat that is right for you and also to see if you actually like it. From the sound of it you may like something that you can take a few passengers out on.

Majority of posts have very good advice: Regardless of the sport, take a few lessons before investing in the equipment. My two siblings and I had a Sunfish as kids; I had one as an adult. Great sailing. It's easy to have two adults aboard. BTW, I've sailed since I was being carried - more than 60 years. Crewed on sailboats from 60' and down to 10-12' Turnabout.

Chris Craft · 03-01-2008, 09:04 PM

If you like fast then get the Laser. They are easy to use and you can grow into it, even get into very competitive racing. They are a little harder to sell because most of the people that want them do ussually want the performance. Places to look for issues with Lasers is just on top of the deck around the cockpit. They get soft there and can crack. Around the mast step can also get some issues if the person rigging it does not know what they are doing. If the hull has olypic rings then it is an olypic class boat, only difference between them and others is that when they were new they were guaranteed to weigh in for olympic racing.

Winnipesaukee · 03-05-2008, 12:38 PM

Also, when buying a used sailboat, try to pick it up. The smaller ones (Sunfish, Laser) should weight about 130 pounds. If it is any more, I'd say away. It means water entered a leak in the hull and the flotation absorbed it.

bodie morey · 04-05-2008, 01:31 PM

I am an ex-sailing counselor at children's summer camp. I have an old Widgeon 12'4" sailboat - the perfect sailboat for learning to sail. Holds several children, stable, points well. A classic boat. Also a good Karavan boat trailer to sell with it.

My first time using this website - don't know how to contact you etc.

codeman671 · 04-05-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey, here's a deal, mention winnipesaukee.com, and the price on my Echo goes from 2400 to 2350!

Of course what he doesn't want to tell you is that he has it listed in the classifieds for $1750...

I am not sure about that rainbow sail...

fatlazyless · 04-07-2008, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

Of course what he doesn't want to tell you is that he has it listed in the classifieds for $1750...

I am not sure about that rainbow sail...

4 photos now in NH craigslist.....just search 'echo sailboat'.....I decided to keep the trailer for use w/ its' replacement...an old fixer-upper 14' Force 5 which is the poorman's version of a Laser except it was never was anything close to the commercial success of Laser.

Come on down and take a test sail today in the small ice-eater, open water!

Ya know there's still about ten snowmobiles out sleddn' on the lake as of yesterday, April 6.

Hey codeman or anyone else, the entire boat including the sails are in almost new condition as this 20 year old boat has almost no use. New price is $5550. Canadian, from the manufactorer's website. My boat's price is $1750. And just for codeman, will be happy to repaint the hull from brite blue to purple. A purple hull with rainbow sails....golleeee...won't that be colorfull Maybe add some purple pompoms to the sails, too!!

10-01-2007, 06:35 PM	#1
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084 Thanks: 1,267 Thanked 557 Times in 286 Posts	Sailing Advice I have decided to buy a small sailboat for next season and I am now starting the research part of the project. I am thinking about a sunfish or a Laser. The boat will be used on a small pond (150 acres +/-). Can anyone give me some help? What about the new versus used tradeoff? How about price, etc. Thanks in advance.

10-01-2007, 08:17 PM	#2
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,135 Thanks: 284 Thanked 480 Times in 271 Posts	Sailing advice If you are totally new to sailing, I'd suggest finding a dealer/marina, etc., you are comfortable with and asking them some of these questions. There is a big difference between a Sunfish and a Laser. Also, check with friends and relatives who may have some experience. Not knowing your age makes it difficult to answer, too. Personally, I would buy a used boat to start with and see how you like it. If the "bug bites", then go for it and look for a new model. Be sure and take a demonstration sail BEFORE you buy the boat. Good Luck to you, and remember, keep the pointy end forward.

10-01-2007, 08:42 PM	#3
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	C & L Echo sailboat For the bargain basement, off-season low low price of just $2400. I'll sell my 11'11" Echo, which is in terrific shape and has multi-colored rainbow main and jibe, and mahogany rudder and dagger board. No trailer included, so stop by buoy 3 and yank it off the dock for a tow home. The C & L Echo has an easy-to-find picture-perfect website and is the training boat used to train 1st yearers in seamanship, or something, at the Canadian Naval Academy in Canada, somewhere. It's time for me to move up to either a Laser, Force 5, or a Laser 2, if I can find one for cheap.

10-02-2007, 06:20 PM	#4
Winnipesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 233 Thanks: 14 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Buy used. $5000 for a brand new Laser is a waste unless you need a perfect hull and rig for racing. You get used ones for as little as $600 and up. If you don't mind me asking, about what do the aspiring sailors weigh? The reason i ask is that some rigs may be too overpowered (such as the full size Laser for me; I sail a smaller-sail Radial). You may also weigh too much for the rig/hull. You can't go wrong with a Sunfish, either. Might I recommend an O'Day Daysailor, Blue Jay, or an N-10 (aka National 10). I think a Laser would be too fast for the lake (you'll have to change direction every few seconds). It is also NOT a boat for absolute beginners. If you get your heart set on one, though, take some sailing lessons. Then, when you're comfortable with the basics, a Laser would be no problem to handle. They're just too powerful and "tender." When you're learning the basic skills, you shouldn't have to worry about capsizing. I say go for the Sunfish. It's more or less indestructable, easy to learn on, quick to rig, fun to sail and race, and there are tons of them for sale. They run about $3500 new--not worth it. __________________ Sail fast, live slow!

10-03-2007, 10:28 AM	#10
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	FLL,maybe Judd Gregg can pay your $2400 price for the Echo with all his lottery winnings.With all the savings of not paying state tax,I'm sure that could go to the FLL poor slobs,poor me club.And by the way,I always thought of people owning sailboats as the rich.What do you know about that. A little tongue in cheek folks __________________ SIKSUKR Last edited by SIKSUKR; 10-04-2007 at 09:19 AM.

10-02-2007, 07:34 PM	#5
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084 Thanks: 1,267 Thanked 557 Times in 286 Posts	Thanks all for the advice. Faylazy, thanks for the offer, but I am not quite to the purchase stage yet. Winnipesaukee interesting advice. Sounds like given the size of the pond I'm on and the fact that I am a beginner, you'd point me to the Sunfish. I weigh 200 lbs +/-, but me and me and my siblings have a lot of young children 7-12 so they would be using the boat as well.

10-02-2007, 08:06 PM	#6
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Camp Rockywold over on Squam Lake, 968-3313, had an advertisement last week w/ kayaks, Sunfishes, and one Laser for sale. The asking price on the Laser was a low $500. and it sold immediately. Squam Lakes Conservation Society, 968-7900, on Rt 3 has a decent '79 Laser with a cover for $1500. Hey, here's a deal, mention winnipesaukee.com, and the price on my Echo goes from 2400 to 2350!

10-03-2007, 06:29 AM	#9
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	So, got any suggestion on how to get the seller to lower their price from $1500. down to 750. It's some type of non-profit conservation group that has a rental sailboat program on the side in Squam Lake. I tried: "The only way you gonna get 1500 is when Ray Charles crawls outta the grave and wants to go sailing, and that's just because he's blind and rich! So, just stick a crowbar in yo wallet and lower yo price!" It didn't work. The price is still 1500, which is maybe double what I can afford to pay what with New Hampshire's regressive tax system. The rich get fat and go power boating, and us poor slobs mess about in little sailboats.

10-03-2007, 04:35 PM	#11
Winnipesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 233 Thanks: 14 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Me: not rich. __________________ Sail fast, live slow!

02-01-2008, 07:00 AM	#12
ApS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro Posts: 5,788 Thanks: 2,085 Thanked 742 Times in 532 Posts	Finding "Gold" in a Sunfish I'm reading that Jeff Linton, who began sailing and racing with a Sunfish, was just announced as the 2007 Rolex Yachtsman of the Year. (This is a very prestigious acclaim among boaters). Buy a $300 sailboat, and a few years later, walk off with a college scholarship—and a few years later, a trophy and a Rolex watch? Only in A-mer-i-ca! __________________ Every MP who enters Winter Harbor will pass by my porch of 67 years...

02-05-2008, 12:45 PM	#13
Nauset Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 95 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	Secondcurve, You may want to take a few lessons before investing any money. You will gain more insight into the kind of boat that is right for you and also to see if you actually like it. From the sound of it you may like something that you can take a few passengers out on.

03-01-2008, 09:04 PM	#15
Chris Craft Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you like fast then get the Laser. They are easy to use and you can grow into it, even get into very competitive racing. They are a little harder to sell because most of the people that want them do ussually want the performance. Places to look for issues with Lasers is just on top of the deck around the cockpit. They get soft there and can crack. Around the mast step can also get some issues if the person rigging it does not know what they are doing. If the hull has olypic rings then it is an olypic class boat, only difference between them and others is that when they were new they were guaranteed to weigh in for olympic racing.

03-05-2008, 12:38 PM	#16
Winnipesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 233 Thanks: 14 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Also, when buying a used sailboat, try to pick it up. The smaller ones (Sunfish, Laser) should weight about 130 pounds. If it is any more, I'd say away. It means water entered a leak in the hull and the flotation absorbed it. __________________ Sail fast, live slow!

04-05-2008, 01:31 PM	#17
bodie morey Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bodie Morey I am an ex-sailing counselor at children's summer camp. I have an old Widgeon 12'4" sailboat - the perfect sailboat for learning to sail. Holds several children, stable, points well. A classic boat. Also a good Karavan boat trailer to sell with it. My first time using this website - don't know how to contact you etc.