2 stroke vs 4 stroke

[winnipiseogee]

Hey Folks -

I'm looking at either a 2005 Merc 200hp Saltwater 2 stroke with 80 freshwater hours or a 2005 Merc 150hp Vornado with 180 saltwater hours. The boat is identical.

The boat with the 2 stroke is slightly more expensive. Anyone care to comment?

I'm not a mechanically inclined person so I rely on the collective expertise of this forum!

[SAB1]

I favor 4 strokes because they are so darn quiet and fuel efficient. I do however, not like saltwater and wouldnt buy a motor that has been in salt unless you dont mind spending a few bucks on it. I am sure plenty of guys wouldnt worry about the salt water issue but I have seen to many issues. 180 hours is not a ton of hours though if it was used for trolling.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

When I think of two strokes, I think of the stink. Do all two strokes smell bad or is that a thing of the past on older engines? Also, does the two stroke pollute more? Thanks.

[Woodsy]

Due diligence!

Both motors are used.... the newer motors have computers that can tell you how many hours... (they told you that) but they also can tell you how long and at what RPM.... ask for the maintenance records.

Have the boat surveyed by a licensed marine surveyor.... its your best defense! I think a survey runs $25 or so per foot. They will check and test engine lubricants, as well as compression and hours etc..

The 2 stroke by its nature pollutes more, although modern 2 strokes are pretty good.

Woodsy

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

When I think of two strokes, I think of the stink. Do all two strokes smell bad or is that a thing of the past on older engines? Also, does the two stroke pollute more? Thanks.

Hi R-Gal!

To answer your questions... no and no.

Evinrude's Etec (which is a two stroke) has proven that two strokes can be extremely clean. They are CARB 3 Star rated and are actually the cleanest burning outboard motors on the market currently. No other brand of outboards produces fewer reportable emissions than the E-TEC.

Four strokes are great and for the most part clean...that is if all the oil that has to be changed regularly is disposed of in a proper manner, which as we all know is highly doubtful...

As an fyi... I own both, a two stroke Etec and a 4 stroke Mercury Verado. Both are great engines!

Dan

[Descant]

I'm not sure you can check this easily, but some folks are very careful about flushing the system after each saltwater use, others are less methodical. Was the boat stored in water or on trailer/valet? For years, I remember hearing "Never touch a boat that's been in saltwater." Nowadays, materials are better and good maintenance programs make a lot of difference.

I agree with Woodsy that a survey is worth it. A surveyor with special accreditation in engines may be worth searching for. I paid $15 a foot last year for a guy with engine cert. Survey took about 6 hours including sea trial, and I paid the marina fee for haul out so we could inspect the bottom.

[Diver Vince]

Generally speaking I prefer a 4 stroke to a 2 stroke. Regarding the 4 stroke with 180 hrs saltwater; the real answer here is how was it maintained. If after it was used, the engine was raised out of the salt water and it was docked by a hose so the engine could be easily flushed and rinsed after each use it should be fine. If the salt water was allowed to accumulate in the engine it could be problematic.
Hint.. see where the boat was docked. Is there a fresh water hose within 10-15 feet of it with a quick disconnect fitting? If the boat was moored (no ready access to fresh water), I'd probably forget about it. I just put 100 hours on a salt water outboard engine and it's in tip top condition because it maintained properly.

[salty dog]

Just a question for knowledgeable members that might influence winnipiseogee. I've seen ads and youtube videos showing possible clear performance differences between 2 and 4 stroke engines, torque and such. Would the 2 stroke offer offer better performance for water sports; quicker hole shots under a load than the 4 stroke? If a sport boat wasn't needed would the 4 stroke be better with a more relaxed ride? This may be all advertising hype but I thought it might be worth bringing up. I've only had Mercruiser small block I/Os so I don't have 1st hand experience.

[ursa minor]

The EFI 2 stroke is updated "old school" technology. With both fuel and oil injection it is considerably more efficient than a carbed 2 stroke more typical from 70's or 80's. That said, it will burn more fuel than a comparable horsepower 4 stroke or a direct injected 2 stroke such as Mercury's "Optimax" or the Evinrude E-Tec. On the plus side, it's relatively light for the horsepower output and it's proven technology that can be serviced by most marine mechanics. They will smoke a little on start up but nothing like the carbed engines did. One of my neighbors has the same engine on a 23 foot walk around cuddy; they've shown it little mercy and it always comes back for more.

The Mercury Verado is a completely different animal. They use a supercharger and other features like variable valve timing, dual camshafts, 4 valves per cylinder and really advanced engine management electronics to squeeze a lot of horsepower out of a small displacement engine. They are quiet and efficient but not really that common here on the lake. The likely pool of qualified technicians is probably a lot smaller as a result; you would likely need to stick to the Mercury dealers on the lake.

I'll agree with the suggestions to get the boat and engine surveyed. On salt water boats also consider that it's not just the engine that can be affected by corrosion. The wiring, electronics and other parts of the boat can show signs of salt water use as well.

[Pine Island Guy]

I can't speak on the efficiency differences or pollution or saltwater… but I can toss out a vote based on my experience with a Honda 135hp 4 stroke… so quiet when it idles, you can’t hear it… smooth operation and zero emissions “stink”… super easy maintenance including no worries about mixing oil/fuel etc… and after 14 years and thousand hours, have only had to change fluids, filters, and plugs… starts first time every time!

See y’all on the lake! -PIG

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

I'll agree with the suggestions to get the boat and engine surveyed. On salt water boats also consider that it's not just the engine that can be affected by corrosion. The wiring, electronics and other parts of the boat can show signs of salt water use as well.

Marine Surveyors do not really "survey" an engine. Some will do a compression check and visual inspection, anything beyond that is typically left to a mechanic.

After owning many 2 strokes and a few 4 strokes I would go Verado as long as it is not cosmetically corroded up from sitting in salt. If it was tilted out of the water the inner water jackets should be fine. That would be an early Verado, so check online to see if there are any inherent problems with that year.

The Verado is an exceptional motor. If it has the digital throttle and shift it is even more impressive. We had a 300 Pro last year and loved it.

What is the boat? 50hp is a big size difference, make sure that a 150 is big enough to push it efficiently. Last year we had a 180 Dauntless, when we got it, it was powered by a 135 Optimax. It was a salt water motor and had rust issues in the steering pivot tube. We tried to dismantle it and found the corrosion went much deeper and it was not cost effective to repair, so we sold it for parts and went with a clean 115hp 4 stroke Merc. It was a great motor, but the difference in horsepower and torque between the 2 was very noticeable. The boat lost 8mph top speed, a lot of hole shot and would not plane well with a load. The 115 had 60 hours on it, was mint, and was propped properly. I should have gone with a new 150hp verado at that time but the 115 was a really good deal. I was not happy with the overall package in the end so we sold it and went to a Dauntless 200 with a 200hp Verado. Really loved that boat!!!!

We had another boat that had twin 135hp Hondas with 1000 hours, they were perfect. The 4 strokes really go the distance.

[TiltonBB]

I rented a 4 stroke outboard in Naples Florida two weeks ago and it was very impressive. It was a 175 HP Evinrude on a 24 foot Hurricane deckboat and was amazingly quiet and smooth. My Winnipesaukee boat has the 8.1 Volvo I/O and I assumed that the outboard would be a big dissapointment by comparison. I was wrong. It was a great day.

I have always had a mental block about any saltwater boats. There is a website "Lakeland Boating" which has a great boat search feature and most all of the boats are on the great lakes so all of the boats are freshwater boats. I have found it to be an excellent resource and actually bought a 34 foot boat in Alexandria Bay, New York several years ago and had it trucked to the Lake. There are some great deals on that site, even after you pay for trucking.

It is just my opinion but once the salt corrosion starts it doesn't stop. I am not willing to take someone else's word that they flushed their motor after every use.

[winnipiseogee]

So that boat is a 2005 Whaler Eastport 205 cuddy cabin. I really liked the boat and thought it would be particularly safe for my my wife to take back and forth from the islands.

I ended up going with the freshwater boat even though it had a 2 stroke. I had a colleague of Shep Browns survey it for me. The boat came back as perfect. Only defects were that there were rubmarks on the bow from the trailer and the seat cushions were a little faded. Seller offered to redo the gel coat and get replacement cushions before I even asked.

I hadn't found a surveyor for the saltwater boat yet but I had close ups photos of both boats. The freshwater boat looked showroom new by comparison. Not that anything was really wrong with the saltwater boat but ever weld, every bolt, every seem showed some level of corrosion. I just don't have faith the corrosion did not go deeper.

Oh well - would have loved a 4 stroke but reliability and condition are far more important to me.

Thanks as always!

[ishoot308]

I think you made the right move.

Congrats on your new boat!!!

Dan

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I rented a 4 stroke outboard in Naples Florida two weeks ago and it was very impressive. It was a 175 HP Evinrude on a 24 foot Hurricane deckboat and was amazingly quiet and smooth. My Winnipesaukee boat has the 8.1 Volvo I/O and I assumed that the outboard would be a big dissapointment by comparison. I was wrong. It was a great day.

I don't think Evinrude makes a 4 stroke that big. Did you mean 2 stroke? Those E-TEC engines are awesome and the only outboard I'd buy. I love the light weight, simplicity, and low maintenance of two strokes; when those attributes are combined with efficiency and low emissions, it's a combination that's hard to beat.

[Diver Vince]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I don't think Evinrude makes a 4 stroke that big. Did you mean 2 stroke? Those E-TEC engines are awesome and the only outboard I'd buy. I love the light weight, simplicity, and low maintenance of two strokes; when those attributes are combined with efficiency and low emissions, it's a combination that's hard to beat.

There's a lot of competition amongst the outboard manufacturers and that's a good thing for us. I can't say enough good things about my 175 HP Suzuki on a 21 foot deck boat in the Carib. Gives new meaning to the word "quiet". Extremely reliable and fuel efficient.