Stereo system

[jeffk]

I may have to get a new stereo system for my boat so I have been investigating them. My boat has 2 speakers in the bow and 4 speakers and a subwoofer in the cockpit. A separate amp drives some of the speakers. I may need a new head unit.

My plans are to drive most of my music through my Samsung Galaxy Note 4, an Android system. AM/FM desired also. I don't need a CD but don't care if one is included. I want marine grade. I want the most advanced Android support possible via USB connection and through Bluetooth and the support of Android music and control protocols like AOA.

I have been looking at some of the Kenwood units but in doing so have come across a problem with stereo units in general. Normally in a boat, you shut off the battery switch to prevent battery drain. The only thing left powered is the automatic bilge pump.

Problem one is that when many of these systems lose complete power from the battery they forget any user settings. They lose radio presets, Bluetooth pairings, etc. It would be impractical to completely set up the stereo each time I take the boat out.

Solution - power the stereo through a direct line to the battery to maintain the settings. However, that introduces problem two. Aftermarket stereos have a reputation for parasitic power usage when off. In a car that is run daily, that may not be a problem. In a boat that might sit for 3 or 4 weeks, it might end up with a dead battery.

Unfortunately information like "Does your system retain settings when disconnected from power?" and "What is the power usage of your system when the unit is shut off?" is not commonly available.

So I want to draw on the forum's experience with stereo systems. Does yours retain settings when the battery switch is shut off? If the stereo is direct to the battery, do you have problems with battery drain (stereo off)? I would especially be interested in more recent models but even brands that work well would give me a place to start investigating.

I am amazed that the marine stereo industry hasn't realized that this is a problem. I chatted with Crutchfield and they admitted it is a problem. There is electronic memory that retains content without power. They should use that in the radios. Sigh. I found a couple units through Crutchfield that retain settings but they have only rudimentary support of Android. Sigh.

Thanks in advance.

[Lakeboater]

A lot of radios have a separate wire that powers just the memory. That wire connects straight to the battery like the auto bilge does. Another wire powers all the other functions and is wired via battery switch. This is how my stock radio in my boat is.

[ishoot308]

I believe Clarion makes or at least made head units that retain their settings without constant power. I have a clarion in my Eastern and it has never lost its settings. I shut the main battery switch off daily.

My pontoon boat loses all its settings when the battery switch is off and it's a real PIA!! Most radio head units will not retain settings unless the yellow memory wire is hooked direct to a 12 volt source.

The memory setting power wire WILL kill your battery eventually. My pontoon boat battery will go dead in about 1 week if I don't shut the main switch down from the radio memory power wire.

There is a technical term for a head unit that retains settings without constant power but I don't remember what it was but do know there are very few of them...

Dan

[8gv]

To offset the parasitic drain from the yellow wire...

If the boat is kept outside consider using a small solar charger. They are $25 or less and have kept my FL boat battery alive well beyond expectations.

Be sure to wire in a fuse close to the battery just in case something unusual happens.

[brk-lnt]

Pretty much every radio you're going to find these days will need constant battery power to retain settings. This shouldn't be a practical concern, the power draw is extremely low. If you're using your boat at least every couple of weeks you'll be fine.

FWIW, I installed a Kenwood marine radio last year and have been very happy with it.

[ishoot308]

I just thought of the term for the head unit that does not require memory power. You need a radio with "non volatile memory". I believe Jensen is the only current producer of a radio that has this feature.

If you get a radio that requires memory power, check the power draw for the memory as every radio is different and I have seen test on line that show some radios have ten times the draw as others. I went through this same scenario last year with my new Bennington pontoon. Sony head units are the worst, at the least the one I have in my Bennington sucks the battery dry rather quickly. I am still looking for a decent replacement unit....

Dan

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Pretty much every radio you're going to find these days will need constant battery power to retain settings. This shouldn't be a practical concern, the power draw is extremely low. If you're using your boat at least every couple of weeks you'll be fine.

FWIW, I installed a Kenwood marine radio last year and have been very happy with it.

Thanks.

How long have you gone between uses of the boat, i.e. battery powering the memory retention on the Kenwood? I would like to think that I would be out on the boat at least every week but I know that is probably not realistic. There will be times when two or three weeks go by.

[jeffk]

Your responses echo what I have been reading and hearing. There are not many non volatile memory units available. My current unit is a Clarion, over 10 years old, and I never had a memory loss or battery drain problem so I wasn't aware of the issue.

There is still hope that the head unit is fine and the problem is with the wiring or the amplifier. I don't think it's a speaker problem because ALL the cockpit speakers cut out at the same time. The bow speakers work fine because they are on a separate channel. It's being checked out now.

One good thing, the boat is going to be valeted so it's on a trailer. The bilge pump will not be using any power, not that it was usually needed that much anyway.

I wish I knew what an acceptable value for memory retention load was to allow me to go two or three weeks without worrying about the battery being too weak to start the boat. Then I could ask the manufacturers what their specs are.

[radiocontester]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Your responses echo what I have been reading and hearing. There are not many non volatile memory units available. My current unit is a Clarion, over 10 years old, and I never had a memory loss or battery drain problem so I wasn't aware of the issue.

There is still hope that the head unit is fine and the problem is with the wiring or the amplifier. I don't think it's a speaker problem because ALL the cockpit speakers cut out at the same time. The bow speakers work fine because they are on a separate channel. It's being checked out now.

One good thing, the boat is going to be valeted so it's on a trailer. The bilge pump will not be using any power, not that it was usually needed that much anyway.

I wish I knew what an acceptable value for memory retention load was to allow me to go two or three weeks without worrying about the battery being too weak to start the boat. Then I could ask the manufacturers what their specs are.

Which Clarion model do you have? I would look on Ebay for the same one.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by radiocontester

Which Clarion model do you have? I would look on Ebay for the same one.

I'm not sure I would want to get a 10 to 15 year old unit that may be working but not have much life left on it and go through the hassle of getting it installed. Further, I wouldn't KNOW it if actually worked properly until it was installed. I just did a quick eBay search, none found anyway.

In addition, the current Clarion is AM/FM & Tape & CD. In those days Bluetooth and Android were not around. If the current unit works, I would live with it not doing Android support but if I am replacing it, Android for my music is a must. Clarion has an M505 unit that is interesting. The Android support isn't as complete as the Kenwood. I don't know it's memory only power draw. Just because the old Clarion gave me no problems doesn't mean the new one would be OK. I may call their customer service line.

[radiocontester]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I'm not sure I would want to get a 10 to 15 year old unit that may be working but not have much life left on it and go through the hassle of getting it installed. Further, I wouldn't KNOW it if actually worked properly until it was installed. I just did a quick eBay search, none found anyway.

In addition, the current Clarion is AM/FM & Tape & CD. In those days Bluetooth and Android were not around. If the current unit works, I would live with it not doing Android support but if I am replacing it, Android for my music is a must. Clarion has an M505 unit that is interesting. The Android support isn't as complete as the Kenwood. I don't know it's memory only power draw. Just because the old Clarion gave me no problems doesn't mean the new one would be OK. I may call their customer service line.

Good points all around, I was thinking you had a newer model (i.e. without a tape deck). Keep us posted on your search.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Thanks.

How long have you gone between uses of the boat, i.e. battery powering the memory retention on the Kenwood? I would like to think that I would be out on the boat at least every week but I know that is probably not realistic. There will be times when two or three weeks go by.

I've gone 3 weeks in the early or late parts of the season with no problems. Single battery setup, but boat is valet stored out of the water so bilge pumps don't run while I'm away.

I've also had my wife's car, also with a Kenwood radio, parked for 6 months without draining the battery,

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I've gone 3 weeks in the early or late parts of the season with no problems. Single battery setup, but boat is valet stored out of the water so bilge pumps don't run while I'm away.

I've also had my wife's car, also with a Kenwood radio, parked for 6 months without draining the battery,

Super! THANK YOU! I have a note into Kenwood product support asking the important questions but with its excellent Android support and your good experience, Kenwood is looking to be the lead choice at this point.

That is, if I need a new head unit. I feel far more prepared if it comes to that point. When I first heard about these issues I felt it was a lose lose proposition; a serious problem with none of the information needed to make a good choice readily available.

Forum to the rescue!

[jbolty]

I have an RV and a couple other vehicles that sit a lot. Have a solar trickle charger on each to keep the battery alive.

Here's one example.

http://www.harborfreight.com/15-watt...ger-68692.html

[NHskier]

I had to replace a 2002-era Sony unit with a current Sony model in mid 2014. Was just at the marina today for first day of the season, cleaning etc. The unit had retained all settings over the winter.

While I wasn't thinking about Bluetooth capability at that time, I wish I had. Tried out an inexpensive Bluetooth FM transmitter I just picked up from Amazon - worked great so I'll be a happy camper music-wise this year.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by NHskier

I had to replace a 2002-era Sony unit with a current Sony model in mid 2014. Was just at the marina today for first day of the season, cleaning etc. The unit had retained all settings over the winter.

While I wasn't thinking about Bluetooth capability at that time, I wish I had. Tried out an inexpensive Bluetooth FM transmitter I just picked up from Amazon - worked great so I'll be a happy camper music-wise this year.

Very interesting. Was the battery disconnected over the winter and on a trickle charger (usual practice) so the Sony retained settings without power?

[thinkxingu]

This is what came with my new Harris--used it yesterday for the first time, and it's pretty nice. Also has a non-volatile memory, so you'll never lose your settings if disconnected.
http://polkmarine.com/stereo-source-unit.html

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[BroadHopper]

Check this site out, it contains top quality marine audio and provide a wealth of information answering most of the topics listed here.

https://www.rocktheboatmarinestereo.com/

I purchase a JVC head unit that is waterproof not potted. I also purchased DC Gold speakers that are submergeable. 9 years of heavy metal both are still going strong!

Another note: I replace the OEM Babb speakers which were 29 years old with the DC Gold, as DC Gold bought out Babb. Babb were also waterproof.

These products are available on rock the boat marine. Feel free the hail me if you want to check out the audio system!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

This is what came with my new Harris--used it yesterday for the first time, and it's pretty nice. Also has a non-volatile memory, so you'll never lose your settings if disconnected.
http://polkmarine.com/stereo-source-unit.html

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Thanks thinkxingu!

I think I just found my new head unit!! The specs on that head unit look great and Polk audio makes great stuff!

Dan

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

This is what came with my new Harris--used it yesterday for the first time, and it's pretty nice. Also has a non-volatile memory, so you'll never lose your settings if disconnected.
http://polkmarine.com/stereo-source-unit.html

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Thanks. I think the unit might be too big for my dash. I will check it out further and keep it in mind.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Check this site out, it contains top quality marine audio and provide a wealth of information answering most of the topics listed here.

https://www.rocktheboatmarinestereo.com/

I purchase a JVC head unit that is waterproof not potted. I also purchased DC Gold speakers that are submergeable. 9 years of heavy metal both are still going strong!

Another note: I replace the OEM Babb speakers which were 29 years old with the DC Gold, as DC Gold bought out Babb. Babb were also waterproof.

These products are available on rock the boat marine. Feel free the hail me if you want to check out the audio system!

Yup, I have been on the site previously checking things out (and Crutchfield, West Marine, and the manufacturer's sites, and a couple more that I don't remember. Also downloaded user manuals with specs and installation info.). I have not seen info on the non volatile memory or the power drain to maintain memory settings.

Nice pricing on the Kenwood.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Thanks. I think the unit might be too big for my dash. I will check it out further and keep it in mind.

Looking through the User's manual it barely mentions Android and AOA is not supported. My phone should have access via Bluetooth protocols but I would worry that not mentioning Android translates into not having paid much attention to it or testing it thoroughly. I would have to have a chat with product support if I were to consider it.

It looks like a nice unit.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Looking through the User's manual it barely mentions Android and AOA is not supported. My phone should have access via Bluetooth protocols but I would worry that not mentioning Android translates into not having paid much attention to it or testing it thoroughly. I would have to have a chat with product support if I were to consider it.

It looks like a nice unit.

What exactly are you looking to do beyond music control that is so important? When tethered with Bluetooth, I can control my Android phone music player and Pandora--can't think of much more that I'd care to do.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

What exactly are you looking to do beyond music control that is so important? When tethered with Bluetooth, I can control my Android phone music player and Pandora--can't think of much more that I'd care to do.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Not all bluetooth support is created equal. There can be all kinds of glitches between phone and the other end. They publish compatibility lists because sometimes the two simply will not play nice together. When a stereo product specifically describes Android operations, I have a reasonable belief that they have actually tested some Android devices and that they work. If they do not call out Android they may simply be assuming the generic Bluetooth protocols will work on all devices that "support" them. I wish that was true but it simply is not. When I see a compatibility list and it says Samsung Galaxy Note 3, I'm guessing my Note 4 will also work.

If I see a stereo supports AOA, an Android specific protocol, it is likely it will work with my phone. Again it also shows that Android support is a serious consideration for the manufacturer.

When you see Bluetooth listed in a spec, it is often accompanied with disclaimers that things may not work as expected and to consult the compatibility list.

I wouldn't want to buy and install a stereo and then find it doesn't really work well with my phone. Then have to return it.

Having said all that - you being able to use the Polk stereo with your Android phone is reassuring and eliminates my concern for this unit.

The size may still be an issue. I need to get a look at the dash (boat is at the marina) to see if it would fit?

Thanks for the additional info.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Not all bluetooth support is created equal. There can be all kinds of glitches between phone and the other end. They publish compatibility lists because sometimes the two simply will not play nice together. When a stereo product specifically describes Android operations, I have a reasonable belief that they have actually tested some Android devices and that they work. If they do not call out Android they may simply be assuming the generic Bluetooth protocols will work on all devices that "support" them. I wish that was true but it simply is not. When I see a compatibility list and it says Samsung Galaxy Note 3, I'm guessing my Note 4 will also work.

If I see a stereo supports AOA, an Android specific protocol, it is likely it will work with my phone. Again it also shows that Android support is a serious consideration for the manufacturer.

When you see Bluetooth listed in a spec, it is often accompanied with disclaimers that things may not work as expected and to consult the compatibility list.

I wouldn't want to buy and install a stereo and then find it doesn't really work well with my phone. Then have to return it.

Having said all that - you being able to use the Polk stereo with your Android phone is reassuring and eliminates my concern for this unit.

The size may still be an issue. I need to get a look at the dash (boat is at the marina) to see if it would fit?

Thanks for the additional info.

Interesting--I've used PCs, Macs, and multiple audio and video machines both for home and car (I used to sell A/V gear and now teach media classes) and have never--legitimately--had any issues with Bluetooth. Take that back--over a decade ago I couldn't use a car head unit for audio because it wasn't AD2P, but that was in the very infancy of Bluetooth.

In any case, good luck!

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[NHskier]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Very interesting. Was the battery disconnected over the winter and on a trickle charger (usual practice) so the Sony retained settings without power?

Winterization and storage is handled by a marina so can't be 100% sure, but I believe the batteries are disconnected during winter storage.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I wouldn't want to buy and install a stereo and then find it doesn't really work well with my phone. Then have to return it.

Buy from Amazon, easy returns.

As for the Bluetooth compatibility issue, you shouldn't have any problems with current-generation name brand head units.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Super! THANK YOU! I have a note into Kenwood product support asking the important questions but with its excellent Android support and your good experience, Kenwood is looking to be the lead choice at this point.

BTW, this is the unit I bought: http://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-KMR-D3...ie=UTF8&psc=1&