Is my sink legal?

[GodSmile]

I'm getting back into boating on the lake after 30 years (yes it's long overdue). I recently purchased a brokerage boat (2005 a 22' cuddy cabin) This boat has a sink, not in the cuddy cabin but behind the pilots station. It only has cold water from a small tank, but it drains into the lake. I remember well when my dad had a cabin cruiser and the law was changed to require a gray water tank for sinks. Is my sink legal or do I need a gray water tank to bring it into compliance?

[Misha888]

There may be no means of overboard discharge, either directly or indirectly(RSA 487:2).

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ents/bb-38.pdf

[jrc]

You need a gray water tank or you need to disable the sink and block the drain line.

Since a sink alone is not very useful, I'd suggest disabling it. I've seen people fill the drain tube with clear RTV. They will insist you permanently block the drain.

I guess you could rig a 5 gallon poly tank to catch the drain and just bring it home and dump it down the sink.

[Lakegeezer]

Reading those regs make me wonder about the "glove compartment" on my boat. I don't use it to keep drinks cold with ice, but it would work nicely for that. It has a drain to the outside at the bottom of it. There is no running water into it though.

[RLW]

GodSmile, I just noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends.

Thanks for inputting to the forum and I'm sure you will get enough answers so that you will know what can and cannot be done.

[dave603]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Reading those regs make me wonder about the "glove compartment" on my boat. I don't use it to keep drinks cold with ice, but it would work nicely for that. It has a drain to the outside at the bottom of it. There is no running water into it though.

My Sea Ray has the same thing, a built in cooler that drains out.
Is this law the reason Sea Ray stopped using built in coolers on newer year boats?

[Orion]

I have a cupholder in the console of my pontoon that has a drain tube going through the floor into the lake. True.

[ishoot308]

What about live wells in fishing boats. Almost all have them???...

[Misha888]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

What about live wells in fishing boats. Almost all have them???...

Maybe they're thinking that one would not void or pour soap on the fish? ^_~

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Misha888

Maybe they're thinking that one would not void or pour soap on the fish? ^_~

If you can't use soap, how are you supposed to clean the fish? We always use a little bit of Dawn to clean our fish and followup with a good disinfectant spray.

[Rich]

I don't see anything in the WD-DD-38 document that talks about cup holders, nor glove boxes, nor other drains of areas that could collect rain water and divert them to the lake.

Even cockpit drains do this to keep boats from filling with water, let's not get too carried away! The next thing we know, this thread will evolve to say that fish need a tube attached to bring their waste into a tank or bag that must be emptied at a state approved pumping station.

[jrc]

Right you guys are getting carried away. A sink is pretty obviously a sink. The law assumes a sink will be used for sink things, washing hands with soap, washing dirty dishes with soap, and dumping out your drink glass.

A live well, cooler, or cup holder is just draining water. Sure you can put bad for the lake stuff in these as well, but this law is focused on sinks and showers. No law can prevent people from doing stupid things.

[Tired of Waiting]

I clean my bilge all the time. I use my boat in many lakes and to keep invasive stuff from spreading it is cleaned on a regular basis. I use soap and other cleaning solutions. Now you cannot rinse it all out, impossible. So when it rains and my boat is in the lake I pump the bilge into the lake. Will they have pump the bilge to grey water station some day?


ToW

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by Tired of Waiting

Will they have pump the bilge to grey water station some day?


ToW

LOL...a bilge pump that returns water to the boat.

[BroadHopper]

My bilge pump drains into the lake. The cockpit drains into the lake. The cooler, glove compartment and 'dry sink' drains into the lake. Only the galley sink, head and shower drains into a holding tank. The outside shower drains into the lake. I'm confuse as to what the EPA consider 'gray' water?

[Misha888]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

If you can't use soap, how are you supposed to clean the fish? We always use a little bit of Dawn to clean our fish and followup with a good disinfectant spray.

not food. Our bins are just empty cavities in the boat.

I was trying to be jocular. *fail*

We all need to be a little more friendly to the lake, as the years go by the water gets more murky and green. More oil, more biological blooms grow . . . crawdads die, though they're making a teeny tiny comeback. We had a couple last year, opposed to many that existed in the 60's, 70's & early 80's.

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by Misha888

not food. Our bins are just empty cavities in the boat.

I was trying to be jocular. *fail*

We all need to be a little more friendly to the lake, as the years go by the water gets more murky and green. More oil, more biological blooms grow . . . crawdads die, though they're making a teeny tiny comeback. We had a couple last year, opposed to many that existed in the 60's, 70's & early 80's.

Are crawdads the same as crawfish? There were so many in the 50's and 60's.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

My bilge pump drains into the lake. The cockpit drains into the lake. The cooler, glove compartment and 'dry sink' drains into the lake. Only the galley sink, head and shower drains into a holding tank. The outside shower drains into the lake. I'm confuse as to what the EPA consider 'gray' water?

Here's what the NH doc says:

Once on board, the inspector checks all onboard facilities that are designed to receive or hold
sewage or greywater, including sinks, showers, holding tanks, valves, and plumbing. Starting at
the various receiving fixtures, the plumbing is traced to the final onboard holding tank(s). There
may be no means of overboard discharge, either directly or indirectly (RSA 487:2). Waste
must be removed from boat holding tanks at marina pumpout stations. Upon completion of the
inspection, boat registration and statistical data is collected and, if found in compliance with state
law, the boat is identified with a DES decal. If the boat is not in compliance, the corrective
measures are outlined and a schedule is agreed upon for reinspection.

It also mentions that you can call 603-271-2963 for more info.

I think the only questionable one is the 'dry sink' and cooler. I have a dry sink on my boat that has been inspected by the NH-DES, and it also goes overboard with the cockpit drains. So either NH-DES missed it in their inspection, or this is OK.

What would I do? Call them and ask. I found them very friendly and helpful when they were on our dock inspecting boats and inspecting my previous boat.

I asked if they wanted to re-inspect my current boat as it was new to me, but they declined, as it already had a NH-DES inspection sticker on it.

[Tired of Waiting]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

LOL...a bilge pump that returns water to the boat.

Yup, that's why I asked. We are dealing with the Govment after all.

ToW

[GodSmile]

Love these threads... back to my original question about the sink Thanks to all who told me what I didn't want to hear. It's not compliant. Taking care of that. Would remove the sink altogether if it wasn't molded into the inner hull. Since it's taking up space I will come up with the simplest gray water tank I can find.
Since it was sold new on the lake I will like to think when it was sold it had a graywater tank, which was subsequently removed.
I hate government regulations, but I love the lake too much to not show proper respect for it.

[Woodsy]

Before you add a "graywater" tank.... actually call DES and verify all of the info yourself!! I seriously doubt someone would go through the trouble of removing an existing tank. Lots of boats have sinks that drain into the bilge and subsequently into the lake.

Woodsy

[Misha888]

Originally Posted by Green's Basin Girl

Are crawdads the same as crawfish? There were so many in the 50's and 60's.

http://revolution-computing.typepad....d1cfea9970b-pi

[Descant]

"Since it was sold new on the lake I will like to think when it was sold it had a graywater tank, which was subsequently removed."

I'm under the impression from my marina that it is illegal for them to launch a boat that is not holding tank compliant. (How long ago was it 'new'?) If the marina removed the tank, I think they would be similarly obligated to properly seal it. Even on the ocean, most boats have holding tanks with a 'Y' valve, although greywater sometimes is not part of that system, only blackwater. I'd think, properly fixed and certified, it would be a "plus" if you ever want to sell the boat.

[GodSmile]

I think what happened is the previous owner must have removed the tank to make room for a cooler. I just need to find a correctly sized tank, because a) I can use the sink without doubt that I'm legal and ; b) when I sell there will be no concerns.

[jrc]

I'd suggest a removable tank, preferably 5 gallons or less. Once you install a tank, now you have to empty it. You probably don't want the expense of a deckplate, and hoses for a marine pump-out.

If you can remove it and take it to a shore facility, a toilet, you can just dump it like a porta-potty. Five gallons of water will weight 40 lbs, plus the tank. So any bigger gets to be a challenge to muscle out of the bilge.

If you do want a pump-out capable tank, have it professionally done. You don't want to collapse it the first time you empty it.

[GodSmile]

So, for less than $25 I was able to easily install a removable tank. I did verify that the setup is legal. Thanks for the advice. Really helped.