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Old 04-30-2010, 10:43 PM   #1
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Unhappy Gulf spill = increased cost of fuel,,,

Just saw a discussion about the impact of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico and they ended with the biggest negative impact would be the slow down or halt of off-shore oil drilling!

They said that that consequences of slowing or halting off-shore oil drilling would be $5.00/gal gas and $6.00 - $7.00/gal diesel fuel by this summer,,,

They speculated the higher cost of fuel would do more harm to the fishing and recreational boating industries than the environmental impact of the spill.

I think their point was the environmental impact of the spill is temporary and its regional and ultimately the company will have to cough up $$ for the clean up, and like all spills it will get cleaned up. But the impact to the economy and to consumers is national, and will have a much more significant and longer lasting detrimental consequences to the country as a whole.

Well that’s what I got out of it,,,

Guess time will tell,,,
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:27 AM   #2
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Unhappy Tribulations of an "Oil-Based-Economy"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XCR-700 View Post
"...But the impact to the economy and to consumers is national, and will have a much more significant and longer lasting detrimental consequences to the country as a whole..."
I read of a 20¢ per gallon increase, but it depends on our national policy "going forward".

I don't know who "they" are, but Big Media once reported that "the oil fires in Kuwait would burn for decades". (And were extinguished in a few months). Why does Big Media always express "surprise"?

Keep in mind that natural "oil seeps" occur continuously all over the world. We're just exposed to "a lot" all at once. If nothing is done, this will be "old news" in five months. IMHO.

Anyway...here are the worst spills in history:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7113061.ece
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Old 05-01-2010, 06:46 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
I read of a 20¢ per gallon increase, but it depends on our national policy "going forward".
I believe it was the "national policy" going forward that they were referring to as driving the cost of fuel up rapidly as the White House has already been making comments about halting further off-shore drilling until safety procedures can be evaluated.

Thanks for the link it was both interesting, and it put the spill in to perspective.

And yes I agree about the "Big" media, it seem they are always looking to exploit any situation to boost their ratings, not meaning to downplay this situation, just saying that the media is not a public service, its a business and they are there to make money.

Thanks - GH
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:27 AM   #4
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Spill or no spill, the cost of energy will be escalating in the future, though perhaps the spill will hasten the inevitable.

Most people seem to be living with their heads in the sand about the approaching days of increased energy costs (and energy shortages). Even without the blowout in the gulf, energy prices are on a long term rise as demand continues to increase around the world (China's oil imports in January were 22% above last January!!!!!, and India is not far behind). However supply continues to be roughly level with a slight downward trend (though not enough yet to tell for sure we are at "Peak Oil"). This is why the government is working hard on an Energy bill that will reduce oil usage (and moderate climate change).

Locally, a group is looking at how the Lakes Region will be affected by increased energy prices. LARELLA (the LAkes REgion Living Lightly Association) is hosting a public gathering on "The Transition Initiative: Supporting Local Resilience in the face of Peak Oil" at the Unitarian Universalist Society Gathering Room (in the basement) at 172 Pleasant Street, Laconia (1 block NW of the Train Depot) on Sunday May 16th at 6:30pm. A description of the event follows:

"We are facing a major transition in the next decade or two to having substantially less energy available (and at much higher prices) that will affect every aspect of our lives – transportation, heating our homes, vacations, food selection and quantity, etc. If gas is $12 a gallon, as the Wall Street Journal predicts, our normal approach to life will be turned upside down. How well we cope with these changes depends on how well we plan for them, and how resilient our local region is to disruptions in energy availability.

The workshop will explain terms like Peak Oil, Energy Descent, Local Resilience, and suggest a framework for beginning to plan for the inevitable shift to local economies. We will discuss the implications for the Lakes Region. For example, when the amount of energy per capita available in the Lakes Region decreases 50%, how would we adapt? What choices would we make in the best interests of the local communities? And what is the effect of planning ahead for when this happens rather than waiting until the situation is upon us?

Come join with others who are concerned about how we will prepare for the coming Energy Descent and who choose to create a positive future rather than a reactive, collapsing future. “Re-localization” is the idea of building a future that plays to our strengths rather than to our deficits. We care, and thus we work together to plan for an abundant, post-cheap oil region.
More info available at www.larella.org"

Last edited by Dr. Green; 05-01-2010 at 10:28 AM. Reason: add street address of meeting
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
Keep in mind that natural "oil seeps" occur continuously all over the world. We're just exposed to "a lot" all at once. If nothing is done, this will be "old news" in five months. IMHO.
Not to argue with what has been said...nor the pros and cons of drilling, or any of it...but from what I read, this "a lot all at once" is threatening to do disatrous damage to the ecology and economy of the gulf states. I doubt, for all affected, if it will be "old news in 5 months"...that would be better news than what they are facing. Of course, this IS regional for now...but it will have a wider effect, obviously, as time goes on. It is tragic.
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:07 PM   #6
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This thread, so far, isn't really about The Lake.


However, rest assured, the price of gas around The Lake will rise in May and stay high untill Labor Day. Always does.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
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This thread, so far, isn't really about The Lake.
I should think that the impact of rising energy prices, peak oil, and energy descent SHOULD be of interest to those living around the lake as it will have increasing impacts on our lifestyles

Getting here, maintaining here, relaxing - all will be affected

I would think the increased gas prices making (motor) boating, snowmobiling, ATV-ing, jetski-ing, etc. increasingly rare would be of interest
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:03 PM   #8
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Default Oil rig nightmare-perhaps off target...but

Tim Lawton, son of Bob Lawton who owns FunSpot, sent this to me today; Tim is a tug boat captain out of Jacksonville FL;

Check out the attachment he sent me-Good God this is bad.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Horizon Rig mess.pdf (1.33 MB, 331 views)
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:11 PM   #9
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There's absolutely nothing to worry about

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100502/...sDb2lsc3BpbGw-
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:16 AM   #10
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I can only imagine what the press would be saying if this happened durring Bush's presidency and nothing was done........oops,sorry to get political.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:42 PM   #11
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Gas was 3.209 at Mountain View. I got as mush as I could because, speculators will drive up fuel prices this summer. Any excuse will do.

The oil spill in the gulf is a real mess, the effect will go beyond my gas prices issues. But I can not do anything about it.

BTW we have an oil based economy because compared to everything else it's dirt cheap. Oil coal and atomic power come close and they are politically unpopular. All other power sources are very limited (hydro) or toys (solar, wind, corn).
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:54 PM   #12
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Default Point of clarification...

The Fed put a temporary ban on the drilling of new wells off-shore not on the operation of existing wells. Since the east coast was essentially closed to new exploration until only the last month or two the only impact in supply would be the loss of the one platform that was destroyed. At this point any increase greater than the usual seasonal mark up would need a better explanation.

Now the price of shrimp on the other hand... could effect some meals around the lake this season.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:54 PM   #13
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This is certainly a mess. However it will be recovered from. The media will of course blow it out of proportion, and the politicians will use it to get the votes of the earthy crunchy types. But the bottom line is this folks.......

IT IS THE OIL INDUSTRY

Much like the Exxon Valdez after the clean up is done, and the media storm quiets down, it will go back to just the way it was before the disaster.
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
I can only imagine what the press would be saying if this happened durring Bush's presidency and nothing was done........oops,sorry to get political.
I suppose, just like now, they'd follow every single word and action taken. Let's not forget how late the three states were to declare a state of emergency. In Katrina, it was declared sooner, although many thought it would never be soon enough.

The Coast Guard and other military, plus NOAA were on this from the get go. I assume their interest was heightened because the possibility of outside causes existed? Who knows? I always try to get to the drudgereport so I know what I should be thinking I did the same during Katrina, and the flooding in the Midwest, the Galveston hurricane, etc.. Definitely a different kind of coverage.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:25 AM   #15
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Default Maybe we could buy gas from the Russians?

This article pretty much sums it up.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:02 AM   #16
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Cool "Gentrification" = Bad Lake & Bad Energy Policy

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Originally Posted by Dr. Green View Post
"...Locally, a group is looking at how the Lakes Region will be affected by increased energy prices. LARELLA (the LAkes REgion Living Lightly Association) is hosting a public gathering on "The Transition Initiative...Come join with others..."
You ARE car-pooling, right?

Wednesday was another silent day on the lake. Even facing away from the lake, I was able to follow a Loon's progress along the shoreline as he repeatedly surfaced behind me. A single lawn-maintenance crew was also apparent on the opposite shore.

First, it was the mowing of lawns—then the leaf-blower—along a series of lawns on Tuftonboro's shoreline. Thinking of this thread, it then occurred to me that we need to act individually.

No grass = less energy consumption + less pollution (+ fewer Canada Geese ).

Lawn mowing is not just a hopelessly inefficient/waster of petroleum, it is among our community's greatest intrusions into Lake Winnipesaukee's "rural wildness". Switzerland bans even electric mowers on Sunday .

Speaking for myself:

1) I've had only a natural forest floor at my Winnipesaukee location for 54 years. Should a dandelion pop up, either a grass whip gets it first—or a groundhog.

2) Six cylinders is the largest number of cylinders in any of the cars that I've owned: it got 30+ MPG highway.

3) I installed a new solar water heater in 1982: in 1998, new owners promptly took it out in "remodeling".

4) Crediting the shading from my ample woodlands, I use A/C at the lake only about five days each season: Even in Florida—less-often than that!

5) I heat with wood—much is gathered from my winter windfalls. (And I thank Veterans ).

6) My bat-house keeps bug-numbers down—without the use of propane.

7) I own four sailboats and own only the smallest of gasoline engines: six gallons a year is my average boating petroleum consumption.

8) My two aluminum boats will last for several decades—maybe longer—then can be recycled.

9) Except for a 7-watt night-light, all lights here are extinguished after dark.

Generally speaking, noise accompanies the excess-energy consumption that will be impacting all of us.

If we can discipline our own individual noise-making, we will be ahead in the conservation of petroleum. (And try to avoid new taxes on Energy ).

As a direct result of this oil spill, we WILL get "Cap & Trade"—a world-based tax on American's use of energy.

Follow the money.


[/RANT]
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:11 AM   #17
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Congratulations are in order. That was some giant pat on your own back.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:08 AM   #18
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Congratulations are in order. That was some giant pat on your own back.
But a proper public display of back patting is required to show that you are attempting to offset the carbon released while racing vehicles, that are tuned for performance, not efficiency.

Last edited by jmen24; 05-06-2010 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:20 AM   #19
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It's not fair that you have six boats and some people have only one or even none. That's why the lake is overcrowded.

I'm suggesting a 1970's limit on boats. One boat for every lakefront property, two for islanders. Once these are counted we will subtract them from the actual number of boats on the lake in 1970. Then we will give permits to enough boats to reach those levels. Permits will be given out through a lottery system. It will only be coincidence that contributors to my election fund will get the lions share of the permits.

Gentrification is probably an overall benefit to lake water quality and lake crowding. Think about it and compare the effects of eight 1/4 acre cabins, each with a 1950's spetic system, and a small two stroke outboard, filled to capacity with renters 7 days a week, all summer long. Compared with one 2 acre site, a mcmansion with a 21st centrury septic system, two modern boats with 4 star emmissions, all only used a few weekends a year plus one week in July by a family of four.

Ok I'll give you green lawns work against the mcmansion.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:54 AM   #20
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Pleazzzzzz, jrc,no more limits of anything by the government.
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:22 PM   #21
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You know I was joking right?

But I should be careful about what I say, there are people who will think it was a good idea.

I wasn't joking about mcmansions, in a lot cases razing a bunch of old places for fewer new places will be less damaging to the lake.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:22 PM   #22
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Upon further reflection I decided some things are better off not said,,,

Last edited by XCR-700; 05-06-2010 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:44 PM   #23
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Default Oil is way down now

From 86 or so to 77? Dollar down, oil spill? How can this be happening?

I think Congress should immediately launch an investigation as to why oil is not at 90 bbl now. Manipulation is the obvious answer.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:51 AM   #24
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Red face OVERALL Benefit? Some Scattered Thoughts...

I'd be more concerned that NYSE closing prices for yesterday are to be "re-adjusted" after panic selling.

Oops...I forgot 10)...

10) An 800-watt water purifier throws off a lot of heat. I set a timer for 2-AM, so it warms up the cottage—early. (One—sometimes a pair—of purifiers, that is).

Quote:
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"...It's not fair that you have six boats and some people have only one or even none..."
I forgot— —make that seven. (But mostly only a pair are used at the same time).

Eight to include my brother-in-law's sailboat—the same BIL who installed roof solar panels himself, and whose meter turns backwards at nearly all times. (Keeping our energy prices down).

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But a proper public display of back patting is required to show that you are attempting to offset the carbon released while racing vehicles, that are tuned for performance, not efficiency.
Much of my road-racing career was instructing other drivers—of whom, most were in their own cars.

(In "Street-Survivor" driving schools, learning street driver proficiencies can save in the "energy-hogging" manufacture of replacement cars while avoiding unnecessary street crashes—and costly injuries).

However, I did take comfort in learning that SCCA auto racing caused less shrinking of our petroleum reserves than horse racing!

Last edited by ApS; 05-22-2010 at 09:17 AM. Reason: Removed off-topic "Gentrification" issue for a later time...
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