Did the 1% Win at Kona?

[Shortstop]

My first adult experiences at Winny were visiting a friend. He and his wife took me and mine to a large deep sandy bay he called Kona. There must have been 100 boats rafting in 6-10' of water. No walking around, like Braun, but a community no less. A few years later when I had a boat, we headed there, near Blueberry Isl. --- but no boats --- but 3 new big mansions. Over the next couple years, I heard stories of how it was now off-limits because rich people called the MP and you got chased out. I wanted to see and about 5 years ago, took my family - anchored anout 300 yards from shore and a woman in curlers appeared with arms flailing chasing me from her shore. Then my best friend returned a few weeks later and an older gent appeared from same mansion, again flailed arms, then swam out and shouted profanities at my friends family.
That was 5-6 years ago, and I still see that bay empty today.

With Braun and Patrician pretty crowded today - why don't we go back there and assert our right to use the lake?

[P-3 Guy]

How did a woman in curlers "chase you from her shore"? You have every right in the world to be there. If you want to assert your right to use the lake, you can't be scared off whenever someone says "boo."

[depasseg]

It's been mentioned many times (and I'm confident that the RSA's support this), that the lake is a public resource. The general rule is if your feet are wet, then you are ok (there are specifics about adjustments due to changing water levels and crossing docks, but that isn't relevant here).

There are some crazy people, both on the water and land. If they call the MP, just wait to say hi and then they will go on their way. I think there was a recent post about a guy in Brickyard Cove who sounds just like this person in Kona.

I think I might have to go check out this area. I just need to find some boating friends to go with me. ;-)

[Shortstop]

At the time we were new to boating and I had taken my family and a friends out on the water. When a lady started screaming at us - I knew I was in the right - but it was easier to pull anchor and find another place. I don't want to fight on a weekend when I am hosting friends - even though I know I am right.

I just don't want it to end in her favor.

[Shortstop]

But Yes - depasseg - I will meet you there..... And I urge the rest of you Lake lovers to throw an anchor (legally, of course)
in front of the big mansion, on the way to Center Harbor - and enjoy that beautiful bay.

[depasseg]

I didn't think the Kona Mansion was on the water. Where exactly are you talking about. There are some larger looking houses in the lower right hand corner of this map view:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ko...24db8194217b48

[tbonies]

"anchored anout 300 yards from shore and a woman in curlers appeared with arms flailing chasing me from her shore". Really? 300 yards from shore and she came out? And how big were the fish you were catching? Sounds like someone making stories up for attention to me.

[Shortstop]

I am talking about the shoreline across from Hull and Ministrial Isl ( I thought that was Blueberry).

[Dave R]

I will make it a point to anchor there now.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Shortstop

I am talking about the shoreline across from Hull and Ministrial Isl ( I thought that was Blueberry).

Minister or (more commonly) Blueberry Island.

[Pontoon Goon]

Let's keep in mind it's a huge lake and there are plenty of places to go where you won't bother anybody. As I've grown older I have come to realize one of the most precious things we have is time, why you would choose to waste yours just for the sake of aggravating is beyond me.

[tis]

Just reading these posts not only in this thread but in others, I see big issues coming up in the future. Landowners vs rafters. I like what Pontoon Goon said. Why waste your time going somewhere where you aggravate people?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Pontoon Goon

Let's keep in mind it's a huge lake and there are plenty of places to go where you won't bother anybody. As I've grown older I have come to realize one of the most precious things we have is time, why you would choose to waste yours just for the sake of aggravating is beyond me.

I have never considered time spent an anchor in my boat as wasted. The area would not be no-rafting zone unless it was a great place to anchor and I've been meaning to check it out anyway. Now there's an awesome second reason to anchor there.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by depasseg

It's been mentioned many times (and I'm confident that the RSA's support this), that the lake is a public resource. The general rule is if your feet are wet, then you are ok (there are specifics about adjustments due to changing water levels and crossing docks, but that isn't relevant here).

Iunno. Mitt called MP on me for fishing too close to his place. There's like a 110' hole in front of his house I was trying to catch lakers in.

CG didn't have an issue point their guns at me when we went down to Springfield PT when Sarkozi was up.

[Pontoon Goon]

Dave, I can appreciate that but I guess my point is spending time trying to be a bigger jerk than the other guy takes away from the enjoyment of the lake.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by Pontoon Goon

Dave, I can appreciate that but I guess my point is spending time trying to be a bigger jerk than the other guy takes away from the enjoyment of the lake.

It's more of a point that this is happening all over the lake, not just this bay. If we sit back and let it happen they 'win' and we we continue to lose more and more of the lake.

I wonder if they would appreciate having the MP's called for their behavior.

[Pontoon Goon]

Before you start an Occupy Kona movement think about this. Shortstop is essentially using this forum to rally people to bully two older people. Gutsy move. He claims he was 300 yards out and a women in curlers scared him away but best of all an elderly gent swam those 300 yards to swear at him and I presume he made it back so that is the length of six football fields. This elder gent must have been Jack Lalanne.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

Minister or (more commonly) Blueberry Island.

Oh thanks for this! I never realized that Blueberry was also known as Minister Island.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Shortstop

My first adult experiences at Winny were visiting a friend. He and his wife took me and mine to a large deep sandy bay he called Kona. There must have been 100 boats rafting in 6-10' of water. No walking around, like Braun, but a community no less. A few years later when I had a boat, we headed there, near Blueberry Isl. --- but no boats --- but 3 new big mansions. Over the next couple years, I heard stories of how it was now off-limits because rich people called the MP and you got chased out. I wanted to see and about 5 years ago, took my family - anchored anout 300 yards from shore and a woman in curlers appeared with arms flailing chasing me from her shore. Then my best friend returned a few weeks later and an older gent appeared from same mansion, again flailed arms, then swam out and shouted profanities at my friends family. That was 5-6 years ago, and I still see that bay empty today. With Braun and Patrician pretty crowded today - why don't we go back there and assert our right to use the lake?

My 1995 Duncan wall chart of Lake Winnipesaukee shows that area south of the golf course at "Kona" has been posted "No Rafting" for at least ten years. "Rafting" usually starts with one anchored boat—and in shallow water, shorefront property waterlines and foot valves are at risk. If the NHMP doesn't wish to enforce this long-standing rule, perhaps they can charge an "anchoring fee" instead.

As to "Occupy the 1%", the vast majority of Winnipesaukee shorefront owners aren't in the "1%" demographic.

New Hampshire towns derive a great deal of income from the five-figure annual property taxes they collect. This surcharge relieves the tax burden for NH residents who are not "on" the lake. This "line in the sand" reinforces NH legislators in Concord, that a state tax (or sales tax) won't happen.

Perhaps "visitors" hadn't taken this into account.



.

[SIKSUKR]

FYI. The bay just south of Kona is a no rafting zone. That doesn't mean you cant anchor there but it might explain why some uninformed land owners think you can't.

[noreast]

Originally Posted by Pontoon Goon

Let's keep in mind it's a huge lake and there are plenty of places to go where you won't bother anybody. As I've grown older I have come to realize one of the most precious things we have is time, why you would choose to waste yours just for the sake of aggravating is beyond me.

So, because you are legally going to an area where someone is Illegally bothering you, you are wasting your time? and your certainly not bothering anyone. Yes, if someone feels so entitled to harass you when you are not doing anything wrong. I would not consider it a waste of my time to tweek them. Fun is a perfect way to pass time. I understand what you are saying as a general rule of life, but, I don't feel it applies here.

[laketrout]

I had the same experience when I was near Governors island facing Laconia side. Middle -aged guy came running down the dock at 1st I thought it was an emergency so I went closer only to get sworn at in a very rude manner telling me to get the ^%$ out of the area. Fun ! I wasn't even close to his house/dock. " A few " folks seem to think they own the water too? Life is way to short to get into shouting matches with people.

On a side note someone mentioned Patrician sandbar? Where is that? I am familiar with Braun Bay, West Alton and Paugus Bay sandbars all best during the weekday if I can do it, no one there. During warm and sunny summer weekends many sandbars are like parking lots during peak times before after lunch and before dinner.

Thanks,
George

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by laketrout

I had the same experience when I was near Governors island facing Laconia side. Middle -aged guy came running down the dock at 1st I thought it was an emergency so I went closer only to get sworn at in a very rude manner telling me to get the ^%$ out of the area. Fun ! I wasn't even close to his house/dock. " A few " folks seem to think they own the water too?

On a side note someone mentioned Patrician sandbar? Where is that? I am familiar with Braun Bay, West Alton and Paugus Bay sandbars all best during the weekday if I can do it, no one there.

Thanks,
George

I hope you laughed at him and stayed put.

[Rich]

When land owners do this, just wave back and smile. If they continue, pick up your cell phone, call the MP for them, since they would probably go into their home to complain about you for some made up reason (probably saying you were doing something illegal). Be the first to call!

Or perhaps take a video of the landowner, it seems that YouTube if full of actions like this these days.

Or maybe the forum water users (boaters) should start a rolling gathering, sort of a on-water-forum-fest. Pick a good place to anchor each weekend, and then many of us can try out all of these various places on the lake.

This way a lot of us would get to try different spots on the lake that we may never have thought of visiting, and we can get to know each other on the water.

I'm not talking about rafting in a no-rafting zone, but legally anchoring and enjoying the day.

[AC2717]

Rich, I think you just stumbled onto a great idea of having a forum fest anchoring every weekend or so around the lake so we can all learn our way around and check out different spots and meet people

[ericnh]

You can come as close to shore as you like, just make sure when you are 150' or closer you are moving at headway speed (5mph or less). Further, if the area is a "no-rafting" you may still anchor out... but at least 50' from another boat. Property owners think they own the water... and that is wrong. The swim rafts and docks they have on the lake are a privilege. The lake is everyones.... I still try to maintain a good distance from shore to ensure everyone has some privacy. One time we anchored out at least 200' from shore in an area people park their boats and the owners of a home started freaking out...yelling at us and making a big deal about it. We moved so we could enjoy ourselves without angry eyes on us... 10 min later another boat anchored out in the same spot.

[Joebon]

A dock isn't always a privilege. Sometimes, it is a right. Although, I agree that the lake doesn't belong to anyone, but it is regulated by the state.

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by depasseg

I didn't think the Kona Mansion was on the water. Where exactly are you talking about. There are some larger looking houses in the lower right hand corner of this map view:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ko...24db8194217b48

This is the Blueberry beach you are talking about. Yes it used to be open to rafting and swimming.

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by ericnh

You can come as close to shore as you like, just make sure when you are 150' or closer you are moving at headway speed (5mph or less). Further, if the area is a "no-rafting" you may still anchor out... but at least 50' from another boat.

I believe the rule is 25' from another single boat and 50' from two boats rafted together (where rafting is permitted).

[Bear Islander]

Actually waterfront property owners due have riparian rights to the waters adjacent to their property. A lot of people get this wrong.

That is why waterfront owners get to put out rafts, docks, moorings etc. These are Common Law rights that go back centuries.

Yes, the state owns the lake. And property owners have absolutely no right to tell anyone to move their boat or prevent them from anchoring. However it is not correct to say they have no rights to the water next to their property.

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Someone parked their boat on our raft one day. They then climbed on the raft and hung out for a while. Is that legal due to the raft being located on the lake in front of our house?

[tbonies]

Originally Posted by Greene's Basin Girl

Someone parked their boat on our raft one day. They then climbed on the raft and hung out for a while. Is that legal due to the raft being located on the lake in front of our house?

It depends.
A). Do you wear curlers?
B). Do you flail your arms?
C). Does your husband also do the same?
D). Is your raft located about 300 yards off your shoreline?
E). Did the violator look like the original poster of this silly thread?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Greene's Basin Girl

Someone parked their boat on our raft one day. They then climbed on the raft and hung out for a while. Is that legal due to the raft being located on the lake in front of our house?

It is still your property Jill. More than anything it is downright rude to do what they did.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Actually waterfront property owners due have riparian rights to the waters adjacent to their property. A lot of people get this wrong.

That is why waterfront owners get to put out rafts, docks, moorings etc. These are Common Law rights that go back centuries.

Yes, the state owns the lake. And property owners have absolutely no right to tell anyone to move their boat or prevent them from anchoring. However it is not correct to say they have no rights to the water next to their property.

Here's an interesting article that references the littoral rights afforded to waterfront property owners. Although this article is focused on docks, the fundamental information gives a good overview of these littoral rights.

https://www.nhbar.org/publications/d...ue.asp?id=6549

[MeredithMan]

First, there seems to be a prevailing attitude on this forum that if someone owns a nice waterfront property, that person is a self-absorbed, arrogant A.H. Sorry, folks, not always the case. And let's remember that each of us is fighting a battle that the other person doesn't know about....family break-up; serious illness; addiction; etc....cut people some slack.

Second, regarding GBG's question of people tying up to her raft: you can absolutely tell them to get off. We had a similar issue with people on swim floats tying up to our mooring. I called the Mooring People in Belmont and was told that even though the lake is public waters, people's moorings and docks are private property and if people are not given permission to be on them, (unless it's an emergency or matter of safety), the waterfront property owner can ask, (tell), them to leave.

I view this issue as both a boater and waterfront property owner. As boaters, one of our favorite things to do is pack a lunch and anchor in a calm spot and hang out for a while. We always try to go somewhere secluded, but if we have to be in front of a person's home, we stay quite a ways out in respect of their privacy and their right to enjoy the water in front of their home to swim, play catch with their kids, etc. After all, it is their HOME. As a waterfront property owner, this is something that is very important to me. It is why I bought waterfront...to be able to enjoy the lake right at my doorstep.

It really comes down to what is legal vs. what is obnoxious. While it is legal to shout profanities at the players at a Red Sox game, it is also obnoxious. While it is legal to be a few inches from a person's face and be in their personal space, it is also obnoxious. Likewise, while it is legal to anchor your boat as close as you want to a complete stranger's waterfront HOME and hang out, it is also obnoxious.

[thinkxingu]

I get just close enough to use my binoculars to look in windows.

JK, but I think what we're talking about here is representative of a greater problem facing America, which is the "Culture of Me." Essentially, that everybody needs to be cool and that everyone else comes second. If people were just reasonably thoughtful of others, this thread, and others like it--read: Braun Bay thread shutdown, 150' rule thread--wouldn't exist.

Be the change...

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[thinkxingu]

^ This guy nailed it.

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[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Greene's Basin Girl

Someone parked their boat on our raft one day. They then climbed on the raft and hung out for a while. Is that legal due to the raft being located on the lake in front of our house?

Funny story, but my inlaws have a raft with a fake owl on it so birds don't land on it. Bass fisherman one day was floating by and had a fish on. He got tangled up with the raft. He climbed on it to untangle his line. In doing so he stumbled on the owl and broke it. Two days later they had a brand new owl with a card in a ziplock bag taped to it apologizing. Kind of restored a little bit of what I had for humanity.

[SAMIAM]

Thinking about the original post and it dawned on me that 300 yards is almost 1/5 of a mile nearly out of range of a human voice on the lake.....and an elderly man swimming that far to yell at them?
Looks more like a hit at the 1% crowd
it's not just evil, selfish shorefront owners that are always at fault. Some rafters are not exactly enviromental stewards, evidenced by cans, bottles, paper and the occasional diaper and condoms that wash up on peoples beaches and many owners report that they have to listen to stereo's with hiphop music sprinkled with lyrics that include the F bomb.
Everybody has a right to enjoy the lake....including the property owners

[SIKSUKR]

Agree Samiam. To put it in scale at the lake, If you're sitting on the Naswa beach its less than 200 yards across the channel. 300 is a looong way off shore.

[laketrout]

The lake for me is about having fun and relaxing & Life is just to short to get into battles with the 1% percent of ___ fill in the blank people that own houses on the water or boaters who think they own the water.

[znh]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Be the change...

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I assume this is from the bit longer Gandhi quote "Be the change you wish to see in the world"


This to me is the crux of these 'arguments'.

Do 'we' want to be the change that focuses on not creating conflict and focusing on 'peace' or do we want to be the change that goes out of our way to create conflict and aggravation for others?

To me the choice is clear. It is an ENORMOUS lake with thousands of nice spots to drop anchor, to go out of your way to just piss someone off seems like a huge waste of time and energy. But this is why they say 'misery loves company'...people going out of their way to create these conflicts are just as miserable, if not more so, then the miserable people on shore yelling at you...

[patman]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

It really comes down to what is legal vs. what is obnoxious. [...] while it is legal to anchor your boat as close as you want to a complete stranger's waterfront HOME and hang out, it is also obnoxious.

That reminds me of an episode of The Sopranos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitec...deposit_battle

[Dave R]

Took a cruise over by the area described in the original post on Saturday. Looks like it would be a lovely place to anchor and wade, but one would have to be WAY too close to shore to do so, IMO. I would not anchor in water shallow enough to wade from the boat there unless the houses were not there. I would not anchor in deep water and swim to shallow water there either. No one yelled at me.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Looks like it would be a lovely place to anchor and wade, but one would have to be WAY too close to shore to do so, IMO. I would not anchor in water shallow enough to wade from the boat there unless the houses were not there. I would not anchor in deep water and swim to shallow water there either.

OP specifically mentioned 8-10' of water, "no wading like Braun," but that it was nice and sandy.

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[Dave R]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

OP specifically mentioned 8-10' of water, "no wading like Braun," but that it was nice and sandy.

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Yup, that's why I specified wading. If you are going to anchor in 8 to 10 feet of water why does the sandy bottom matter? Mucky bottoms hold the anchor just as well.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Yup, that's why I specified wading. If you are going to anchor in 8 to 10 feet of water why does the sandy bottom matter? Mucky bottoms hold the anchor just as well.

I took it to mean that you thought the OP was too close to the homes. If that was not your intention, I apologize.

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[Rich]

Because I posted an idea in this thread, I also want to say:

I don't condone being obnoxious anywhere on the lake.

But there are some places on the lake where it may be ok to play loud music, etc. These places would be somewhere without others nearby. 'Others' here mean other boaters, homes, people on a beach, etc. Where are these places located? It depends on the situation at the time. If you're the first boater at a location and no one else is there, and there are no homes are nearby, then perhaps you can play your music loudly, or do other 'obnoxious' things. But the moment another boater shows up, or you are made aware that there is a home nearby, you should turn down your music (no matter the type of music, or whatever you were doing) and be polite.

To the home owners that say that people should not anchor right in front of their home as they spent a lot of money to buy that home, or to pay the high taxes, I still say that the law is correct in that anyone should be able to anchor, even feet from their shore/raft/dock. But the boater should act accordingly and be polite and respectful. Not that I would do it.

To me it's the same thing as if I wanted to park my car at the curb in front of their home. As long as I wasn't doing anything illegal, nor being disrespectful, then there is no reason someone should ask me to leave (yes, peering into people's windows is not being polite and could be considered illegal). If I wanted to get out and sit in the back of my pickup truck and enjoy lunch with my family, then I have the right to be there (unless it's a no parking zone, etc.). So why can't I enjoy the lake wherever I go if I'm not being a pest (and my quiet presence can't be considered 'being a pest').

I also don't assume that someone that has a property (nice or not) on or near the lake are self-absorbed, arrogant nor an A.H. in any way. The homeowner's own actions could only make me come to this conclusion.

NOTE: I don't own a pickup truck, and I always try to be polite, friendly and helpful.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

You can anchor off my property anytime you want. Swim over and join us!
If you act like an ass hat you'll be treated like one. Simple as that. Mutual respect.
I wouldn't bother yelling at an obnoxious boater more than once. Just like the geese, you'll be moved along. Your choice how that happens.

It's a big lake, we should all be able to have fun without ruining another's.

[Rich]

Thanks! And if you see my boat, swim or boat over and say hi! We like making new friends!

If we're making lunch, or having snacks, as long as we have enough to share, you're also welcome!

It goes both ways!

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by Rich

Thanks! And if you see my boat, swim or boat over and say hi! We like making new friends!

If we're making lunch, or having snacks, as long as we have enough to share, you're also welcome!

It goes both ways!

That's it! Summers are too short. Making friends and sharing is what makes it all worth while. If you look due north from the sand bar in Paugus you'll see our crowd...everyone is always welcome.
Life's too short...play hard!

[depasseg]

I think the original intent of the OP was lost. Originally (15 years ago), there were hundreds of boats enjoying the lake right there in that spot. And now that there are a couple big houses there, there are no boats.

[Rich]

As some of us are saying... why? Go there, boat there!

Be polite and if the residents give you grief, call the MP on them first!

Quietly, respectfully, take back the lake!

[NHMOMMA]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

It's more of a point that this is happening all over the lake, not just this bay. If we sit back and let it happen they 'win' and we we continue to lose more and more of the lake.

It is true. The squeaky wheel and all.

Doing the right thing, in a nice way, perhaps will teach others the rules. Don't forget, people from all over come here to the lake, and not all were raised with our New England manners.

But there are not enough hours of summer in NH to use them up being angry.

At least, that is what I have learned over the years.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

FYI. The bay just south of Kona is a no rafting zone. That doesn't mean you cant anchor there but it might explain why some uninformed land owners think you can't.

For your information.
The original owners in the original white house that owned all of that waterfront had the state make this a no wake zone. The Hank sisters. The Hank sisters had connections or just knew what the laws could be.
They sold out to a developer. Then the McMansions came about.
All of the Hank sisters are passed on now. They owned the yarn shop in Meredith long time ago.

[Misty Blue]

I have been in Braun Bay most of my life. Before the no rafting zone was put in at the top of the bay many, many boaters were up there. Now the numbers are fewer but the laws have caused them to spread out over a larger area. Now they are sometimes behind Glines island and spread out to the western part of the bay.

Ya know, this happens two days a week for about six hours a day for about eight weeks a year. Come on. Let's share people!

Reminds me of a story. (What doesn't.)

A neighbor complained to the wife and I that he had a boater who anchored in front of his house every Wednesday afternoon and got necked with a woman.

Deb noticed a telescope by the picture window and said "Hey pal, shouldn't this thing be pointing up"?

Misty Blue