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09-07-2010, 12:19 PM | #1 |
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Thefts from Boats in Alton?
I saw a posting on Craigslist requesting info and a reward because someone had broken into about 20 boats in Alton Bay including at Parker Marine on 9/5. I tried to see if the Citizen had something but I did not find any more info on this. Anyone hear about this?
I feel so sorry for anyone who had something stolen from their boat.
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09-07-2010, 01:19 PM | #2 |
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I had not heard about this but I did see the Marine Patrol had a SUV there Monday morning and the marina staff was checking boats.
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09-07-2010, 02:04 PM | #3 |
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Yeah and if they catch him/her/them keel hauling comes to mind. and I think there would be any number of volunteers to pilot the boat.
Theft off a boat....Is there a different punishment on that? Maritime law used to be different didn't it? |
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09-07-2010, 02:49 PM | #4 |
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The bottom line is this, lock up anything that is valuable. Thieves are getting smarter, they realize that while cars and home now how alarms most boats don't.... Unfortunately most marina's are noted gated around the lake, and this provides easy access... Radios, GPS units, etc etc, even when mounted into the console are easy targets, especially if the thieves are familiar with boats, and the cabin entry is unlocked to get to the access panels....
Although we would all like to think things are safe, there really just is no safe place anymore.... especially in a tourist destination like the lake... The only reason I haven't taken further precautions with my boat, is that I have neighbors that are at the lake all the time... But I foresee the day where I will decide to but a cable and lock to secure the boat to the dock, and the jet ski to the dock.... I would recomend to anyone putting electronics into a boat, that they make it removable, so that it can be unmounted and taken off of the boat when not in use, especially if you keep your boat at a Marina... To all the Marina, and Yacht clubs on the lake, it is time to put entry gates in... I am surprised this isn't a more wide spread occurrence... As for punishment, well I have often been accused of being a bit to cruel in my views... an eye for an eye, and petty thieves should have their hands..... well never mind.......
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09-07-2010, 03:42 PM | #5 |
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Kayaks, too
There was also an article in this morning's paper about kayaks being stolen from Alton. YIKES!
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09-07-2010, 05:11 PM | #6 |
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I don't know if it is related or not but Monday morning the A.P.D. were talking to one of the vendors at the craft fair. I think they had somthing stolen out of their tent overnight. When I came to work Sunday morning it looked like someone tried to get in my back door. We have had problems in the past and I have resorted to putting construction fabric on my windows. Letting the bayrats that hangout across the street know that I will deal with them and not the police{ if I find out they did anything to my property} has been the best deterent though.
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09-07-2010, 05:22 PM | #7 |
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Lakeport Landing
My marina is gated. You need a combination to get on the docks. It doesn't prevent folks from entering by water or air for that matter.
It was on the news somewhere that an owner of a stolen kayak found his kayak on Craigslist. Another owner found his kayak at a pawn shop in Tilton.
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09-07-2010, 07:03 PM | #8 |
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A couple of my friends had their boats broken into at parkers, fire extinguishes were discharged all over the boats and dumped into the river. Looks like kids vandalism, nothing taken from their boats other than the extinguishes. I heard atleast 10 boats in the river were tampered with and 2 camps on the river broken into. Marine Patrol and Alton PD were on the scene.
Since "Joe" passed there has not been a security guard that I am aware of, although I was told there is survielance cameras.
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09-07-2010, 07:35 PM | #9 |
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The same thing happened at Laekport Landing this past weekend as well. There were ~8-10 boats that were trashed and even one that was cast adrift!
What's happening? |
09-07-2010, 09:32 PM | #10 |
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Thefts
Trail cam.... Video option.
Cabelas.com criminals are daredevils...good lighting does not deter most gb |
09-08-2010, 06:22 AM | #11 |
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Sheps
we had a similiar situation back in June, fortunately I don't leave anything worth value on the boat. They did however untie and leave the lines wrapped around the posts and the canvas was left unzipped.
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09-08-2010, 07:51 AM | #12 |
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We store our boat trailer in a storage facility in Cape Coral, Fla......it is about 20 acres, with an 8' fence topped with barbed wire and it is used mostly for boats and RV's. At night it is not even lighted because the owners release a pack of dobermans that roam until dawn. They've never had a problem with theft.
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09-08-2010, 10:49 AM | #13 |
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I have been trying to Quayside YC to put in a web cam for years. At least we could see who was out and about....
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09-08-2010, 10:53 AM | #14 |
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Stolen Kayaks
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09-08-2010, 10:55 AM | #15 | |
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Stolen Kayaks
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I had also heard that someone found theirs at a pawn shop in Tilton as well. Was this on the actual news station? |
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09-08-2010, 12:10 PM | #16 |
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Kayak thefts
It was in yesterday's edition of either the Manchester Union Leader or yesterday's Laconia Daily Sun.
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09-08-2010, 03:59 PM | #17 |
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You can download yesterdays edition of the Laconia Daily Sun here:
ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2010/9/7L.pdf The only mention of a Kayak was a letter to the editor 1 stolen kayak has been recovered, we’ve got two more to go To the editor, Thanks to the power of print I recovered my neighbors kayak that was stolen from Alton at the end of July and would like to thank the honest woman who turned it in to the Tilton police. I have found out that both of my stolen kayaks were bought by one person at Fast Cash in Tilton. One of the kayaks was a Red Wilderness Pungo, 9-ft with evidence of stickers if they are not still on it. The other is a Heritage Featherlight peach orange color. 9-ft. If you purchased these boats please contact the Tilton police department or Detective McDoogle of the Alton P.D. I appreciate your honesty in advance, and thank-you. D. Jordan Alton
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09-11-2010, 04:24 PM | #18 |
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parker marina
Why didnt the Parker Marina owners report damages to the owners of the boats where they park your boat? THey shoved it under the rug like every thing is ok and mislead investigators .How about the chemicals that were in the water from the fire extinguishers that was shot off all over platform boats ?How about the peoples personal property? Dont tell people that dock their boats that there is survelleince when the only servallience is for their new boats up front not the ones out back. Its unfortunate that today one week after the devestation on Labor Day people were coming to there boat to find destruction because the owners at Parker Marina never took the time to call them. That is a disgrace!
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09-11-2010, 07:19 PM | #19 |
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Green Horn - that's quite a first post... were you one of the victims of theft or vandalism to your boat?
If so, I am sorry that happened to you. Alton is a great little town but it's no Mayberry RFD... we have our share of crime here, too. Unfortunately. Welcome to the forum. |
09-12-2010, 10:06 AM | #20 |
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Good honest people...
Our very good friends here on Winnisquam purchased one of the stolen kayaks from the pawn shop in Tilton. They are also faithful readers of the La Da Sun and when they saw the original letter from D. Jordan, they contacted the police and told them that they might have one of the kayaks.
The kayak is currently in the evidence room of the Tilton Police and my friends were told that it would remain there until the thief was caught and brought to trial. So one of the kayaks has been "recovered" but won't be returned to the owners until after the trial (assuming that they catch the thief). Hopefully, the pawn shop will do the right thing and return the $$ that our friends paid for the kayak. |
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09-12-2010, 02:42 PM | #21 | |
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Good Honest Friends
Quote:
We also had 2 kayaks stolen from us from the same lake as D.Jordan. I was able to track them down and they provided me w/ some useful info. The pawn shop not so much. Would you be able to ask your very honest friends if they recall a Critter green kayak w/the word demo or a red Victory kayak w/ a black" V" Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks |
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09-12-2010, 07:24 PM | #22 |
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Aren't Pawn Shops required to record the transaction and verify the ID of people that pawn items in NH? I believe it is required here in RI.
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09-12-2010, 07:47 PM | #23 |
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Pawn Shop
Yes they are required, but the way they get around it is to have the person that comes in show their ID and sign stating they are there to pawn. They even told me if had the name of the person they would tell me what they brought in...but in this case I dont have the theifs name.
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09-14-2010, 02:22 PM | #24 | |
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LDS Article
In today's paper:
Quote:
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09-22-2010, 11:07 AM | #25 | |
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kayaks
Another letter to the editor in today's Laconia Daily Sun.
It would seem that the pawn phop received stolen property and should reimburse the buyer. Quote:
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09-26-2010, 10:51 PM | #26 |
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pawn shop should do right thing
I can't believe the Pawn shop won't give that kind women her money back. I guess that's what you get for being honest. even though they didnt know it was stolen when they sold it they shouldnt stick it to an innocent buyer. everyone should keep this in mind and think twice about doing business with the Tilton Pawn shop on route 3 because you might just get it stuck to you too
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09-27-2010, 12:17 AM | #27 | |
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Quote:
Or Any Pawn Shop! Are you Daft?...
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09-27-2010, 04:27 AM | #28 |
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The pawn shop owner will not refund my friend's money because he claims that the police told him that he didn't have to. This might be legally correct, but from a moral and business standpoint, wrong, wrong, wrong.
I guess anyone considering buying anything from a pawn shop should take a "stolen until proven otherwise" attitude about the merchandise and ask themselves if they want to be "robbed" of the purchase price and the item purchased, should it turn out to have been stolen property. I think that the Tilton pawnshop made a very poor decision in not refunding my friend's money. |
09-27-2010, 04:50 AM | #29 |
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I'd be willing to bet that this was not the thief's first transaction with this pawn shop. In that business, you must get a pretty quick line on people to survive and this shop must have their "stinkmeter" turned way down.
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09-27-2010, 05:46 AM | #30 |
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The person who bought the stolen kayaks from the pawn shop can sue the pawn shop. It might not be worth the trouble, but it is an option.
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09-27-2010, 08:07 AM | #31 | |
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law?
Quote:
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09-27-2010, 04:35 PM | #32 |
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You would have to know the property was stolen. If you buy property, not knowing it was stolen, you've done nothing wrong. I guess it gets a bit fuzzy if you buy a Rolex from someone on the street at 1/10th it's real value. Google scienter.
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09-27-2010, 05:06 PM | #33 |
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I may be incorrect here, but I believe that anyone who purchases stolen property knowingly or not, is still considered in possesion of stolen property and this is quite against the law.
I believe the pawn shop has the responsibility to ensure what they are buying is not stolen. If they decide to buy an item without doing their proper due diligence, they are still responsible. Dan |
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09-27-2010, 07:12 PM | #34 |
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Even if the police believes the pawn shop violated the law cited below, they have to prove it in a court. The DA might not feel it's worth the headache or that the case is unwin-able. This is a criminal case and must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The person buying from the pawn shop has a strong civil case against them, regardless of the criminal case.
637:7 Receiving Stolen Property. – I. A person commits theft if he receives, retains, or disposes of the property of another knowing that it has been stolen, or believing that it has probably been stolen, with a purpose to deprive the owner thereof. II. The knowledge or belief required for paragraph I is presumed in the case of a dealer who: (a) Is found in possession or control of property stolen from 2 or more persons on separate occasions; or (b) Has received other stolen property within the year preceding the receiving charged; or (c) Being a dealer in property of the sort received, retained or disposed, acquires it for a consideration which he knows is far below its reasonable value, or (d) Purchases property from a law enforcement officer working in an undercover capacity, or an agent of such law enforcement officer, where such property has been explicitly represented as stolen. III. As used in this section, ""receives'' means acquiring possession, control or title or lending on the security of the property; and ""dealer'' means a person in the business of buying or selling goods |
09-28-2010, 05:16 AM | #35 |
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I bought a cast iron bank at an auction in Concord years ago for my son. Two weeks later the auctioneer notified me that it was stolen and had to report that I bought it from him at auction. I retrieved the bank from my son and turned it over to the Concord police. No money ever came my way. The auctioneer didn't offer to reimburse me.
It's called "let the buyer beware!". |
09-28-2010, 09:23 AM | #36 |
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Why haven't the police obtained the identity of the "alleged" thief from the pawn shop owner? In RI the pawn shop is required to have the verified ID of every person that pawns an item. Several crimes have been solved because stolen items turned up in a pawn shop.
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09-28-2010, 09:36 AM | #37 | |
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Lengthy investigation...
Quote:
These can be very complex investigations and take quite an amount of time. The fact that they have recovered some goods and can track them back through a pawn shop, so early in the investigation, means they have a better chance of succesful prosecution. These investigations can be like pulling at a loose thread on a sweater. The more you pull the bigger the thread gets. The god folks that turned the kakyak in that provided the initial leads should be commended for their honesty. It is a break like they provided that can sometimes net a whole ring of thieves! |
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09-28-2010, 11:36 AM | #38 |
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So if you had stuff stolen and someone bought it at a pawn shop, found out it was stolen and returned it, or turned it in to the police.....Would you compensate them anything in return?
I don't think I could not. |
09-28-2010, 08:15 PM | #39 |
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i think the police know who it is since pawn shops keep a record of who sold them stuff - so the police can file charges now that they have the evidence. legally the new victim, who is out the $200 has to collect from the thief, but good luck trying to collect a penny from him\her. maybe a small claims court claim against the pawn shop is a good idea. but that's a pain too. the pawn shop should just fork over the money if it has a conscience
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09-29-2010, 03:28 PM | #40 |
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Pawn shop
The pawn shop makes quite a profit. Consider this, if the pawn shop owner paid the thief $100.00 for the kayak, then sold it to someone for $200.00, they have made a $100.00 profit.
When it is discovered to be stolen and the honest person returns it to the police, the pawn shop owner refuses to refund them the $200.00 and insists that legally they have to collect it from the thief (who only received $100.00 from the pawn shop owner). The pawn shop owner has made $100.00 free and clear. There is absolultely NO incentive for them to be dilligent in making sure that any goods that they take in are not stolen, because if they sell the item, they keep all of the money and make a profit. |
09-29-2010, 03:55 PM | #41 | |
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Dealer penalties for pawning stolen goods
Quote:
JRC several posts up provided everyone with RSA 637:7. I'll repeat it here: "...The knowledge or belief required for paragraph I is presumed in the case of a dealer who: (a) Is found in possession or control of property stolen from 2 or more persons on separate occasions; or (b) Has received other stolen property within the year preceding the receiving charged; or (c) Being a dealer in property of the sort received, retained or disposed, acquires it for a consideration which he knows is far below its reasonable value, or (d) Purchases property from a law enforcement officer working in an undercover capacity, or an agent of such law enforcement officer, where such property has been explicitly represented as stolen. III. As used in this section, ""receives'' means acquiring possession, control or title or lending on the security of the property; and ""dealer'' means a person in the business of buying or selling goods..." This law holds a pawn shop or dealer to very high standards if they violate the law. If the item in question is valued between $500 and $1000 then the dealer is guilty of a Class B felony, and above $1000 a Class A felony. Yes there is always some dealer that may try to make a fast buck but actual prosecutions are rare as the offending dealer will face basically the same charges as the thief he bought from. |
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09-29-2010, 06:06 PM | #42 |
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Skip,
This kayak new, was probably valued at over $500.00, however, it was purchased "used" for less than that at the pawn shop and probably does not meet the threshold for a class B felony. I appreciate your respectful disagreement. However, my friend is out a few hundred dollars and the pawn shop has profited from this sale. Where is the justice? |
09-29-2010, 06:28 PM | #43 | |
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Quote:
The justice occurs when the thief is prosecuted. Yes, I know, in many cases justice is never served when the thief escapes or fails to make restitution. My point was that a pawn shop employee does indeed face significant risk if he knowingly deals in stolen goods. I can tell you from personal professional experience that pawn shops are under constant scrutiny from a variety of law enforcement agencies. That said some always still fall through the cracks. Unfortunately much dealing in stolen goods actually takes place via the internet via third parties such as Craig's List, which is much harder to track. Finally for a variety of legal reasons once a criminal investigation is taking place no restitution will take place until the case is ajudicated. This is also true in most civil cases. The short answer? Many times there simply is no justice, and that is truly sad. |
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09-29-2010, 10:07 PM | #44 |
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restitution
Regardless of the variety of legal reasons why the pawn shop might not have to, or want to make restitution, there still remains the moral obligation to do so. they could do the right thing if they wanted to, but they chose not to.
I expect that after the criminal is prosecuted, or the statute of limitations expires if he isn't, the kayak will go back to the orginal owner but there's hardly any chance the buyer who turned it in is ever going to see a penny from the thief. |
09-30-2010, 01:52 PM | #45 | |||
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Identity and record inspection
This was mentioned earlier, the identity must be verified and recorded.
Quote:
Quote:
If it was minors then the pawn shop is in violation : Quote:
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10-01-2010, 01:55 PM | #46 |
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I don't get it. Shouldn't the pawn shop give the money they received back and be on the hook for what they paid out since it was their screw-up?
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10-01-2010, 02:36 PM | #47 | |
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Quote:
How was it their screw-up? If indeed they didn't follow the law in this transaction then they should be prosecuted and be responsible for a portion or all of the restitution. And I am sure that the agency investigating this crime is looking into that aspect of the matter as well. But if the Shop followed all legal procedures in this transaction then how are they responsible? The person responsible is the criminal that stole the item and pawned it. That's the way our criminal justice system works. I'll repeat it once again. Either criminally of civilly, when an item is in dispute before a Court any law enforcement agent or party's attorney will advise that no restitution take place until the dispute is adjudicated. For a variety of reasons if restitution takes place before a trial the restitution can be used to minimize or negate the charges. It's not like TV. A case like this can take upwards of a year to work it's way through the system. The victims that bought the item are entitled to full restitution. That restitution needs to come from the guilty party. Because the investigation is still on going we do not know yet who all the accused may be. And under our system of Justice we will not know who the guilty party is until they are convicted. Part of the sentencing in cases like these involve penalty and restitution. I haven't stepped foot in a pawn shop in years (actually since I was stationed in Charleston, SC). But way back then I knew when I bought an item the receipt clearly stated "buyer beware" in South Carolina legalese. Does anyone know if that is part of the receipt when you purchase from a pawn shop up here? |
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10-01-2010, 03:29 PM | #48 |
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A case like this took 3 weeks for an arrest in Providence RI in the past year.
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10-02-2010, 08:12 AM | #49 |
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Why does the pawn shop get to keep the profit from the sale?
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10-02-2010, 08:40 AM | #50 |
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Why should they return it if they did not do anything wrong?
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10-02-2010, 10:01 AM | #51 |
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10-04-2010, 07:02 AM | #52 |
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Do you happen to know what the name of the boat that was cast a drift? Our boat, we think, was taken for a ride or something that weekend. When we got to the marina to go for a boat ride, my husband and I noticed that the ropes were different and there were several, 12, deep scratches in the fiberglass that wasn't there before.
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10-04-2010, 10:09 PM | #53 |
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return the $
they should return the money because it's a good business decision that will generate goodwill with this customer and others. a bad reputation is much more costly than the lost profit in this case. they have a dissatified customer and many others who now know about it through the newspapers and this forum. think about the goodwill that would be gained by refunding the money. forget the legal argument. its the morally right thing to do. |
10-04-2010, 10:42 PM | #54 | |
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Now with that said, you will need more the a couple of scratches and the fact that you believe your boat was tampered with to build a case for your boat being involved in all this at this point in the game. However if you truly believe it was you need to talk to the authorities as soon as possible.
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10-05-2010, 05:49 AM | #55 | |
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10-05-2010, 06:39 AM | #56 |
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10-05-2010, 06:43 AM | #57 |
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10-05-2010, 10:02 AM | #58 |
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I still don't get it
They bought stolen property didn't they? What am I missing here?
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10-05-2010, 02:15 PM | #59 |
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They are essentially being rewarded for dealing in stolen property. It appears that as long as they can prove that they followed a certain protocol, they can keep the profit.
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10-05-2010, 06:05 PM | #60 |
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I think if they did not know it was stolen, and they took reasonable precautions to ID the seller then they are as SOL as everyone else. The kayaks were taken from the pawn shop (which paid money for them), and I doubt the police reimbursed the pawn shop. Why should they lose on both ends (refund the original owner, and lose the property to police seizure)?
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10-06-2010, 09:49 AM | #61 |
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Unjust enrichment
I believe there is a legal term called "Unjust Enrichment". NB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unjust_enrichment |
10-06-2010, 11:47 AM | #62 | |
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Or, the other scenario is that they pay $100 for the kayak and sell it for $200 to someone. It's reported stolen, somehow traced to the pawn shop, which has records of who they sold it to (maybe?), and it gets repossessed from that person. The pawn shop would have made $100 (not $200) on the sale, perhaps the law should require them to refund their profit. But to who? What happens if the original owner ultimately gets his kayak back? Is he then liable to refund the pawnshop back their money?
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10-06-2010, 12:36 PM | #63 |
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The honest person that bought the kayak and then returned it to the rightful owner is out $200.
The thief and the receiver of stolen goods (pawn shop) are each $100 richer. That just don't settle right with this Swamp Yankee, sorry.
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10-06-2010, 02:02 PM | #64 |
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I couldn't agree more RI. Thanks for your comments.
I feel strongly that the pawn shop should refund their profit (even better, the whole purchase price) to my friend. Anyone who might have purchased one of the other stolen kayaks from the same pawn shop would probably be very hesitant to return it based on my friend's experience. Sad! |
10-06-2010, 02:24 PM | #65 |
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How were they enriched? They still have the money that they received for selling the stolen kayaks thats how. This is what I don't get.
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10-06-2010, 08:35 PM | #66 | |
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pawn shop was enriched
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It appears that the pawn shop was enriched by $100 (or whatever profit they made on the sale) and the honest victims who bought it from them are $200 poorer. the pawn shop should return the $200 to the victim and just give up their profit of $100, or whatever. and then the pawn shop is only out $100, or whatever they paid the crook - it could have been even less. a $100 loss for a business compared to their total annual income hurts a lot less than a $200 loss to an individual compared to their total annual income - generally speaking. and whatever happened to good customer service or the customer is always right? wouldn't it be worth a $100 expense to a business to get some good publicity out of doing the right thing and returning the money to the honest victim who did the right thing? |
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10-06-2010, 08:51 PM | #67 | |
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Overall, I'm not sure any common pawn shop is terribly concerned about their "public image". I'm also not sure when/if the original victim gets their kayak back. If that is expected to happen in reasonable time, then it seems like the pawn shop doesn't really owe the victim anything. You could argue that they owe a refund to the person who unknowingly purchased the stolen kayak from the pawn shop. IMO, much of this hinges on whether or not the pawn shop takes reasonable precautions in their business to ensure they are not buying stolen property. If they regularly engage in shady business, then they probably deserve to get a financial hit from this. If they operate as lawfully as reasonably possible, I don't think they are on the hook for anything. What if the process looked like this: (kayak stolen) thief sells kayak to pawnshop 1 for $100. Pawnshop 1 sells to pawnshop 2 for $150. Pawnshop 2 sells to innocent bystander for $200. Innocent bystander cleans up item and sells back to pawnshop 1 for $250 pawnshop 1 sells to new innocent bystander for $300. Kayak is finally realized to be stolen, and confiscated from buyer 2. Who owes whom money (and what amount)? Yes, this is a purposefully complicated exercise meant to attempt to illustrate a point.
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10-06-2010, 09:15 PM | #68 | |
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pawn shop #1
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Pawnshop#1 should be out $250 for being stupid enough to pay $250 for something it already paid $100 for! and you should have to pay $50 for making me strain my brain trying to follow your example |
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03-30-2011, 02:59 PM | #69 |
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Update
The owner of the pawn shop has been indicted for receiving stolen property.
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/story...tolen-property |
03-30-2011, 05:04 PM | #70 | |
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I must have missed this thread last fall as it appears people posted about Parker Marine issues and thefts at the same time. My boat was vandalized and the fire extinguisher discharged but luckily I empty my boat of anything of value so there's nothing to be stolen other than the whole boat. I have no sympathy for thieves and think the punishment should be removing a hand and which one is chosen by coin toss. Heads = left, tails = right |
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