Skydive Laconia?

[flyguy]

If you've missed the news lately, two Floridians are trying to open a tandem skydiving operation at the Laconia airport in Gilford. In spite of the heavy transient and jet traffic that we experience all summer- especially NASCAR race weekends- they insist that they want to jump directly over and land on the airport. This of course will result in them falling directly through the flight paths of current traffic.

There's a Laconia Citizen article on it here.

I've got nothing against skydiving - I've done it myself - but this proposal is similar to placing a skate park next to RT93. I can't imagine a worse idea for the Laconia airport for many, many reasons.

So- do YOU want people jumping out of planes above YOUR home?

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Why would any normal person even want to jump out of a working airplane?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

Why would any normal person even want to jump out of a working airplane?

I've done enough business travel that I've wanted to jump out of a working airplane several times.

Get seated next to (or even near) a sick crying baby on a 5 hour flight, and you'll think about jumping before you're an hour into it.

[SteveA]

This is from the Gilford Steamer (1/1/09). More details from the folks proposing the business. They sound pretty experienced. I think if the safety issue work out. It would be a great business for the area.

http://www.gilfordsteamer.com/pdf/GIL.2009.01.01.pdf (go to the 2nd page on this PDF)

I wouldn't do it, but Mrs. SteveA jumped last spring in Key West. I think I was more scared about the whole thing than she was. She loved it and wants to jump again. The video of the dive company made of the whole jump is very cool.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

... Get seated next to (or even near) a sick crying baby on a 5 hour flight, and you'll think about jumping before you're an hour into it.

Yup, that will do it

PS: loved that picture that flyguy posted

[ushaggerb]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I've done enough business travel that I've wanted to jump out of a working airplane several times.

Get seated next to (or even near) a sick crying baby on a 5 hour flight, and you'll think about jumping before you're an hour into it.

Brilliant idea. They should allow you to have the option to jump out of an airplane. I'd take that over an upgrade.

[TheNoonans]

I am very happy to report that I just spent the last hour on a conference call with the Airports Division directors in Washington, DC, and that for the first time in 3 years in this process, I was surrounded by nothing but positive people. They recognize the failures in the current system and are committed to getting a resolution in place by years end.

They want accountability as much as we do.

They believe that an airport sponsor that signs a federal funding grant assurance contract must do everything within it's power to live up to it's obligation to ensure equal access to all aeronautical activities.

AND

When this process is concluded, they (the directors) intend to enforce the contract obligations personally.

So.....what does that mean in terms of the LAA?

Well, for starters, here is a question that will be asked by the FAA directors that I would not want to have to be the one to answer if I was on the LAA:

"The Noonans first contacted you in July of 2008 expressing an interest in bringing a legal and viable aeronautical activity to the Laconia airport. It is now December 2011, so please tell us, with the millions of dollars you have received in federal funding since first being made aware of the Noonan's intent to operate a skydiving operation on the airport, what have you done in the last 3 and 1/2 years to make the airport more accessible? What did you do to mitigate those safety concerns you raised? You were given millions of dollars intended to be used to make the airport accessible to all aeronautical activities, including skydiving, so what have you done?"

That question is coming, trust me. And it is not going to be coming from the local FAA, it's going to have a postmark on the envelope that reads "Washington, D.C.", and it won't be coming from a secretary.

And answering "Sorry, we didn't know we were obligated to do that" just isn't going to cut it, not when the millions of dollars that the airport received in the last ten years in all tallied up.

Regardless of the outcome of this process, in many respects, we have already won. The "Skydive Laconia" issue reached the desk of Randy Babbitt, the Chief Administrator of the FAA. (His boss is Ray LaHood, DOT Cabinet Member. Ray LaHood reports directly to President Obama.) Hence, there is no one higher in the FAA to bring the issue to, it reached the top of the organizational structure. When I say this is coming from the top down now, that's where I base my position.

Additional victories:

- Within the FAA, the LAA have become the case study on the breakdown of the federal funding grant assurance program and the lack of a national standard of FAA enforcement when such violations occur. Every agent of the FAA from Boston Harbor to San Francisco Bay will be briefed on Skydive Laconia and the LAA before this issue is finalized.

- The local FSDO and ADO ignored us every step of the way. As this nationalization process continues to reach it's conclusion, the directors level of the FAA have personally pledged to include Mary and I in the opinion forming process. What we were not given the opportunity to do on a local level, we will be given the opportunity to do on a national level.

- The conversation ended like this, (paraphrasing): "We recognize the short comings of the system and are intent on correcting them. We cannot get back the three years you lost, but we can ensure, when this process ends this year, that neither you, nor any other aeronautical activity proposer will ever have to go through this again on a federally funded airport."

- It's not just skydivers that should be happy about this. If you fly gliders, powered para gliders, sea planes or any aeronautical vehicle for fun or for business, this process will protect you as well down the road from ever having to go through what we have been forced to endure.

And lastly, now that the FOIA info has finally arrived, Mary and I are in the process of writing our memoir on this ordeal. Thanks to the creator of this thread we even have a wonderful outline of the last three years to keep the story straight. It's a 12 month project for sure, but in the end it will be worth it to put a public record out there that is veritable and just.

So much for "Put up enough red tape and delays and maybe they will just pack up and go away.......". Eh?

I said from the start that we were committed to seeing this through and I meant it.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Resident 2B]

This is a story for 60 Minutes!

R2B

[trfour]

I agree with R2B! Although, most of us sided with TheNoonans from the Get & Go here. And also about 60 minutes, in No Way could they ever show what TheNoonans have had to endure to further bring the economy of the Lakes Region Higher, and on into a greater future for all!!

Now, wouldn't it be refreshing to actually see a Government Wing, push us all forward, in these critical times??

We do also pay attention to a few of the winds here what and duly are Closed.

Terry

[Pineedles]

It is so ironic that the most vocal opponent to Sky Dive Laconia, Bill Hemmel (Flyguy) gave the Noonans the platform to state their case. In Tom's last post he thanks the "creator of the thread". Very Sweet!

[robmac]

I for one am very happy that the Noonans want to bring a new and viable business to NH. It sounds like their perseverence is paying off and they may now have a fair shot at actually opening. Keep up the fight alot of people support your plan. Rob

[Seaplane Pilot]

"NEVER GIVE UP"! The Noonans should be an inspiration to everyone that is sick and tired of government (at any level) trying to control our lives. Keep up the great work!

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

"NEVER GIVE UP"! The Noonans should be an inspiration to everyone that is sick and tired of government (at any level) trying to control our lives. Keep up the great work!

Too bad the lady who has to suffer from Mayfew's Funeral Home got cutoff. She doesn't have a chance now without putting together a following. In any respects, I'm pretty excited for the Noonans and gladly look forward to giving them my business and hopefully next summer.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Too bad the lady who has to suffer from Mayfew's Funeral Home got cutoff. She doesn't have a chance now without putting together a following. In any respects, I'm pretty excited for the Noonans and gladly look forward to giving them my business and hopefully next summer.

I believe this business in the beginning would be a fad and everyone would rush to jump out of a plane, specially lots of people following this thread. In time I feel the number of jumps at Laconia would drop off significantly. Maybe I'm wrong just my .02

[sa meredith]

Count me in for sure. It's on the Bucket List, and I'd love to scratch it off.
Maybe next summer????

[gtagrip]

I'm waiting to see if Mr. Hemmel will weigh in on this latest development.

[Steveo]

I bet Obama will bring this up as his job's stimulus plan in tonight's speech.

[fatlazyless]

While it sounds encouraging to supporters who want the Laconia Airport to be a home to a sky diver business, every issue like this always has two sides to it, and the Laconia Airport Authority hasn't made too many public comments on why they feel the way they do.

Hopefully, this latest new information in the long running saga will encourage the Laconia Airport Authority to be a little bit more open and public with their thinking on the proposed addition of sky-diving to their facility.

It's seems pretty obvious that the L.A.A., which has no regularly scheduled airline passenger flights, is very happy to welcome private passenger jets, but much less happy to welcome a sky diver business operation? How come .... and why is that?

[RLW]

Originally Posted by dpg

I believe this business in the beginning would be a fad and everyone would rush to jump out of a plane, specially lots of people following this thread. In time I feel the number of jumps at Laconia would drop off significantly. Maybe I'm wrong just my .02

You may just be right with your 2¢, but I'm hoping not. I have gone to visit 3 different fields in the past 1-1/2 years just to see how they operate with the divers and airplanes since this has been posted. Now I was at these 3 fields on weekends and only twice at each field. I found that they were VERY busy both with divers and planes coming and going and found that it was well organized without any problems. Now I'm older and never would try it, but found it very interesting to watch and I will continue to go and just watch. I spoke to several pilots/divers at each of the 3 fields and never once did I hear a bad word said about either group. I wish anyone out there the best when they try a new or existing business, as you all know we sure need some new economy to get this country going again. Like it has been said many times before, just my 2¢.

[robmac]

I agree with RLW,I don't think this proposed venture will be a flash in the pan. People in S.NH thought the same about Sky Ventures in Nashua. It has become a thriving business since opening its doors. I think that a business will flourish when owners have both a passion and love for what they are doing along with a sound business plan in place. With that said I think the Noonans will do well given the oportunity. I hope the powers that be in DC have clearer heads and a fair hearing is given.

[TheNoonans]

It's seems pretty obvious that the L.A.A., which has no regularly scheduled airline passenger flights, is very happy to welcome private passenger jets, but much less happy to welcome a sky diver business operation? How come .... and why is that?

Hi Less,

I don't think you'll ever see a member of the LAA post anything on here, but I think they did a pretty good job explaining from their perspective, why they don't want us here when they answered the ADO during their public comment period, they submitted "Summary Doc for FAA 3-30-11". I have a copy of it, it's a big file at 4mb, but I am happy to send you a copy, or I am sure you can get a copy at the airport from the manager.

It's a report compiled by the LAA, the experts on local topographical conditions, as Mr. Hemmel put it I believe........

The problem with their report is that none of them, literally NONE of them, have any background in aeronautical safety as it pertains to parachute operations. There opinions, as obtuse as they are, have no basis of content based on subject matter knowledge, education, practical application or personal first hand experience. But it reads well to the uninformed.

Remember when the LAA created that now famous (within the FAA) "safety committee" comprised of three members of the LAA that are neither pilots or parachutists or that had absolutely ZERO background experience in aeronautical safety studies as they pertain to parachute operations?

Remember when I asked the LAA to give me the aeronautical safety evaluation backgrounds of the Safety Committee and they had their lawyer send me a letter saying they were not legally obligated to provide me that information?

Well I do. I remember it well. And it is all documented and on it's way to the director of compliance in Washington, D.C. As is their obtuse report they submitted, and every other document that they generated that I have a copy of, including those private emails from the airport manager.

Back to that report, if you read it, you will see that they took that opportunity to go after me personally on page 7 of their report when they quoted me out of context from this forum and tried to paint me as someone who's "priority of responsibilities" as they put it, was not in line with theirs as it pertains to safety.

Well guess what? I have shown the FAA in Washington, DC my global resume that supports my statement that I am considered a subject matter expert on parachute operation safety protocols around the world.

When it's there turn to defend themselves, what can they show? That they sit around a table once a month and look for ways to keep aeronautical activities off the airfield?

They had their opportunity to work with us, to find a mutually beneficial resolution that everyone could agree on. Now we are past that point. Now it's full steam ahead with the FAA, now it's time for accountability.

Now it's going national. The national media is standing by and ready to go as soon as this is resolved. It doesn't take much background research to realize that the LAA and this process represent everything that is wrong with this nation. A small group of over privileged people in a position of power trying to distort local government and policies to satisfy their own agenda, that of keeping "outsiders" out and "insiders" in. And in that process actually PREVENTING new jobs and additional ECONOMIC STIMULUS from being brought to area.

As your store hours and your work hours scale back in November, ask yourself if you made enough money to comfortably get through the winter season, or if you would have preferred the opportunity to make more. This will now be the start of the THIRD winter that you could have ended your season with additional jobs and economic stimulus in your cash registers and your wallets.

When your next election roles around, I hope those of you that have helped bring this thread to 40,000 views remember what it is you are voting for, and who it is you are putting in office and thus onto the LAA.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[fatlazyless]

Landing on grass vs. landing on asphalt?

Just picture this; you come in for a landing with one of those directionalized parachute wing things on some good quality grass that is a little bit wet. Ok...it's time to assume the skydiver surfer position and slide on home, back to terra firma, and make a sliding landing, where you come in to land and do a slide-in as opposed to a running step-step step landing.....just like a surfboard on the wet slippery grass.

www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6862732 Wow...just look at that healthy green grass and picture yourself coming in for a surfer style surfboard landing, sliding across the grass, with a chute up overhead!


And, then picture yourself doing the same surfer style landing on black asphalt......ouch....just not the same type of landing!

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by TheNoonans

snip.... A small group of over privileged people in a position of power trying to distort local government and policies to satisfy their own agenda, that of keeping "outsiders" out and "insiders" in. snip.....
Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

Tom, OMFG you have no idea how much of an understatement this was. It's pervasive around the lake unfortunately.

I have a $120k rebuilt shoulder so my chances of doing a jump are long gone or else I'd be one of your first paying customers

What I love the most about this issue is how they issues are dealt with with data and factual evidence, not perception. So many people out their write opinions and cash check that their mouths can cash....

Rock on Tom!

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

Why would any normal person even want to jump out of a working airplane?

Well, ... I wrote that way back in the beginning of his thread, with tongue in cheek. While I would not want to jump I appreciate that others love the sport.

TheNoonans have more than adequately addressed and explained any concerns I had about in later posts about the safety of jumping into a working airfield and they have done it in a manner that reflects the professionals that they are.

This quote disturbs me:

Originally Posted by TheNoonans

... Basically, the local FSDO went out to the airport and was told that they have a concern about landing parachutes affecting the IFR glideslope ....

I think the FSDO needs some training in electronics and radio systems if they believe the parachutes would be a problem. There is more chance that an aircraft or heli would affect the signal than a parachute. Maybe they should ban aircraft! Yes, that is a foolish statement, just as foolish as banning parachutes. ( I worked on that equipment many years ago at NAS Quonset point before it closed.)

Hopefully this summer I will be able to sit outside at Sawyers, enjoying the ice cream, and watching the chutes float down to the airport.

An interesting afterthought, I have seldom seen aircraft comming or going while enjoying my ice cream outside at Sawyers.

[trfour]

Dear Tom, most of us are still very interested in seeing Skydive Laconia through it's fruition and to beyond be very successful.
All Entrepreneur's' should take a look in what you have put into the process... Facts, knowledge and The Great Spirit!
Fortitude, patience and resolve!

You have shown us all, and I for one believe that you are also looking out for our best interests!

Rock on, my friend!



Terry
_____________________

[RI Swamp Yankee]

This thread is a bit old but I wonder if there is anything new.

[TheNoonans]

Hi RI Swamp Yankee,

We're still here.....lol.

Basically, as we understand it, the FAA rep that came from Washington issued a report that, as we expected, found no reason why skydiving could not exist on the Laconia airport. The only thing left that could be debated on a local level was whether or not our presence would obstruct the IFR Glide Slope. I guess it's one of those "many, many concerns" that were implied but not stated back in Janaury of 2009......when this thread was first created. Anyways, based on our extensive research, we could find nothing that showed we posed any issues to the glide slope (more info on that back up the thread). And that the ILS approach was only critical when the ceiling was 800ft or lower and planes were flying in IFR conditions. The problem (for the otherside) is that we only skydive in VFR conditions, so that issue couldn't be used against us. Despite that being the only factual piece of information available about glide slopes, somewthere on their side of the table, someone is frantically looking for anything they can find to prove otherwise. If the otherside has shown anything, it is the power of a beauracracy to delay the just (us?). We are simply waiting for whatever info they believe is out there.......

So that's where we are at right now.

Not to worry though, as I said before, Mary and I are not going anywhere, and we have legal precendence on our side. There will either be skydiving on the airport in the near future or a forfeiture of their federal funding. I'd prefer they keep the funding and let us skydive, we'll see how they decide to handle it.

The dropzone I am at while we are forced to wait, had 500 tandem students (with additional non jumping guests) come out over the last seven days to skydive. Most drove 1-2 hours to get here. Thats about 750 people patronizing the local restaurants, bars, hotels and gas stations in the LAST WEEK. We expect another 1000 people this week. The 35 employees and contractors (that's 35 jobs) that I work with at our dropzone were all thrilled to have them. Skydiving based tourists and jobs should be at the Laconia Airport. Currently they are not...........

What cracks me up the most is that when I am not skydiving, I fly right seat in the Twin Otter and watch our plane share the same airspace with jets, both commercial Boeings and those little ones that the LAA is so afraid we'll scare away......all in harmony. Oh, and our runway is 13 miles from one of the largest international airports on the east coast. But hey, maybe jet pilots are simply trained better down here? (I'm kidding of course........we must actually be endangering them for our own financial gain, right? )

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Joby]

Hi Folks, I have followed this thread and am wondering, anything new?

[SPT13]

Just curious as well if anything is new on this subject

[TheNoonans]

Greetings to all,

Just wanted to follow up with an update. Please forgive my lack of activity here as of late, Mary and I, like many of you, are simply playing the waiting game. The FAA came up from Washington, DC last year and we all got together with the LAA and their lawyer. The FAA (federal, not local) stated, as we expected, that there wasn't any issue with skydiving on the airport. Local FAA admin still wanted to review our landing area proposal as they felt, without any factual evidence to support it, that our original landing area was too close to the ILS equipment and that our parachutes would affect it's operation. Rather than argue the fact, we simply submitted a new landing area proposal away from the ILS equipment. That was back in September 2010.......

Still waiting........

The good news is, we are still fully committed to bringing skydiving to the airport and have not been swayed an inch by all the red tape/delay tactics thrown at us. The majority voice continues to speak: The community believes the airport belongs to them, not a handful of people and pilots. Jobs and economic stimulus to the area. That's what we bring to the table.

In the interum, we continue to skydive over Mount Everest and continue to skydive locally in the US beside Leer jets, Life Flight helicopters, and air traffic ten times that of LCI. Landing on airports the same size or smaller. And guess what, not a single pilot was ever scared by the parachutes, and not single skydiver hit an airplane.......

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight.

Tom

[Happy Gourmand]

I admire your tenacity and your patience as you wade through the muck of all the red tape.
Have you tried bribes? (just kidding!!)

[Jonas Pilot]

Does LAA stan for Local Airport Advisory?

[trfour]

the Laconia Airport Authority.

I hope this helps.

Terry
______________________________

[upthesaukee]

I believe it is Laconia Airport Authority.

[trfour]

The Noonans are welcome and my hope is that, they are included and find, that what they can bring us all will diminish some of the red tape that they have had to endure.
They offer an alternative and JOBS as well. Some may get rattled, who among us hasn't.
They will bring us photos that others haven't.
Terry
______________________

PS: Isn't this what PhotoPost is all about?

[TheNoonans]

Greetings to all,

I just returned from a skydiving trip and came across this article in the Citizen:

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...WS02/703249667

Apparently the Gilford Selectmen have voted not to endorse our proposal.

Mary and I find it curious for two reasons:

1) The current ADO review of the airfield is projected to be concluded in two weeks. Based on what has occurred within the FAA after that initial grossly erroneous report was published, it is our expectation that a fair, factual report will finally be issued that will find no reason for the landing area to be considered "objectionable". If the FAA finds no fault in our proposal, that is basically the last stall tactic that the LAA could throw in our way........

It is my guess that in an 11th hour strategy meeting behind closed doors, the idea came up to go the Selectmen and ask them to vote not to support us. I'm sure that request came with all sorts of horror stories of what skydiving was like 30 years ago. And the Selectmen voted to not support us.

This vote was done after we have had our proposal on the table for almost three years, so why now?

2) It was also made without any input from us the business owners. Why do you think that was? Perhaps the small group of people that don't want us there thought it would be easier to spread the fear if the Selectmen lacked the facts.

The point is this. Whether the Selectmen endorse us or not is not the issue. The issue is that they made a vote without any factual information. A vote that directly affects everyone of you in the community. We will bring jobs and $1,000,000 of economic stimulus to the area (and we can prove it). If I were a Selectman, even if I didn't like the idea and even if I was friends with the small group of residents of strong influence in the community that oppose us, I would still make sure I had every fact possible before voting on something that would affect my entire community. That did not occur. Does that concern anyone? It concerns me. Agreeing or disagreeing with our proposal is freedom of choice. They are elected officials, elected to vote their conscience to serve the community. I get that, and I respect that. But to vote on anything that will directly impact the financial future of the community without doing their due diligence is a questionable decision in my mind. What do you think?

selectmen@gilfordnh.org is their email address. I encourage you to write them. I'm not asking you to write them in support of us. We would be grateful if you did, but that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking you, the community they are elected to serve, to ask of your Selectmen how they justify voting on something they know nothing about, without hearing all sides of the story. If it was done with us, what other votes are being made that way? That's the issue that should concern us all.

Below is the email I sent to the Selectmen today:

Selectmen,

My name is Tom Noonan. My wife and I are the proposed business operators of Skydive Laconia. We read with great interest in the Citizen that the board recently voted not to endorse skydiving at the airport.

I am writing to inquire if the Selectmen have any interest in learning more about our business proposal and modern day skydiving operations. Selectman Hayes was quoted in the article citing a concern about the Fire Department's training facility. Modern parachutes have accuracy and directional control similar to aircraft, and pose no reasonable threat to the training facility, this is a quantifiable and provable fact. Certain people at the airport would like to lead you to believe otherwise, but there are no facts available to them to support their claim. Selectman Hayes is also quoted as saying he saw "several problems" with our proposal. We would very much like to meet with Selectman Hayes and the entire board to discuss any concerns that they may have with our proposal. We would also like to ask why we were not contacted to address any of their perceived problems?

The truth is, for three years, my wife and I have followed every protocol and step to bring a legal and viable business to the airport. Our business will infuse about a dozen new jobs in the town and about a $1,000,000 of economic impact to local Inns, Restaurants, and businesses. Selectman Hayes stated that our presence would affect the current businesses at the airport. The truth is, the airport is currently almost barren of businesses based on the current economy and the way the LAA rules over the airport. There are only two businesses on the airport at the moment, both long standing FBOs with flight schools. Thanks to federal funding and the LAA, they have the airport to themselves and want to keep it that way. That is where 99% of the minimal opposition to our business is coming from. Despite their claims, neither will be adversely affected by our business model. They are simply making uneducated claims based on what skydiving was thirty years ago, not what it is today. Your airport is designed to serve the community as a whole, not just those two business owners.

We understand our proposal is a classic case of NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) and that a select few people in town with positions of influence do not want us there. They have used every stall tactic available and now, as it seems the FAA will mostlikely issue a ruling in two weeks stating all of the "safety concerns" of the LAA are unfounded, they have turned to you to attempt to block us. Why else would the Selectmen choose now as the time to make such a vote on this issue as it has been on the table with the LAA for almost three years now?

It's a shame really. Not that you voted to oppose our operation, but that you did it without seeking out all of the available data. We are experts in our industry, and I can assure you a number of things:

1) The Laconia Municipal Airport is an ideal location in terms of size and air traffic to support a skydiving operation.
2) The current air traffic will not leave for other locations. (John Marriott's pilot will still fly his private jet into LCI if we are there.)
3) Student pilots will not be adversely at risk. Student training programs across the country operate at airports with skydiving operations and train students to safely fly at airports with parachutes.
4) Our business will bring 2000+ people to the area from April 1 - Oct 31st each season.
5) Our business will bring a dozen new jobs to the area and train locals to work anywhere in the world off season.
6) Despite the vocal minority, the vast majority of the community actually wants us at the airport. Please visit www.winnipesaukee.com and look under the General Discussions forum for "Skydive Laconia". It has been viewed over 20,000 times and 90% or more of the responses are positive.
7) The LAA has used "big government" bureaucracy to stall our proposal as long as possible and have been allowed to get away with it by the local FAA.
8) We have offered repeatedly to do demonstration skydives into the airport for the LAA and the community to illustrate how minimally intrusive our presence will be on the airfield. The LAA has flatly denied our request each time because they know as soon as the community sees how safe and accurate our parachutes are, the fear mongering will not hold any water any longer. If we do demonstration jumps, the LAA will no longer be able to cite "safety concerns" when we show the community there are none.

It is with all of that in mind, I would like to ask the Selectmen to consider the following:

The airport is intended to serve the community as a whole, not just a select few in a position of power and authority. As Selectmen, it is your duty to ensure that any decision that affects the community as a whole and it's economy, is reviewed to the fullest extent before issuing a ruling. I ask you to consider three requests:

1) Allow my wife and I an audience to address your concerns and allow us the opportunity to provide factual information to support our proposal.
2) Provide us a Town Hall open forum to address the community at large.
3) Allow us to make demonstration skydives onto the airport to illustrate how non-intrusive we really are. Invite current business owners in the area and airport business owners to observe.

If you do all of that, and then reach a conclusion as to whether or not you believe that we will be a good fit in the community, you will be serving the community as a whole. We humbly request that you consider that course of action.

Best regards,

Tom Noonan
Skydive Laconia


Lastly back to the thread: The "FAA" never issued a report saying the landing area was unsafe. A local branch of the FAA, called the "ADO" issued a report citing the landing area as "objectionable". Every line item used to find it objectionable was seen by "Higher Ups" within the FAA as being completely erroneous. The ADO, for reasons beyond my understanding, has elected to keep a grossly erroneous document in the public realm without issuing a retraction. I will post both the report and detail all of it's inaccuracies shortly. Suffice to say, the FAA at a Federal level is aware of all of this and we plan to take it to the top of that chain when this is over.

[TheNoonans]

For the conspiracy theorists out there......lol

I forgot to add this to my last post:

Somewhere around the summer of 2009, Mary and I submitted our Skydive Laconia business plan and proposal. We provided it to the airport manager who in turn (appropriately) provided it to the members of the LAA board.

Now fast forward to March, 2011. It seems somehow the Gilford Selectmen received a copy of our business plan and proposal. Selectman Hayes is even quoted in the paper as saying he found "many safety concerns" with our proposal. He obviously had it and obviously read it.

Odd thing is, we never submitted our business plan or proposal to the town Selectmen. That means someone else provided it to them. Someone else had it put on the March 23rd agenda and put to a vote. All without our knowledge........interesting, huh?

The first I was even told about the vote was a week after it happened with the link to the article was sent to me.

So, let me ask all of the conspiracy theorists out there a question........

Why would someone in an appointed position of authority (the LAA) "allegedly" provide someone else's business plan to a town selectmen committee and put it on an agenda and have it put to a vote, WITHOUT informing the persons that 1) created the proposal, 2) can provide FACTUAL information about the proposal and 3) have their contact information on the proposal?

If you would like to email the Laconia Airport Authority yourselves and ask them who provided the Selectmen our business plan without our knowledge, their email is:

laa@metrocast.net

Who knows they will probably email you a copy of our proposal too.......lol

In the end we are not bothered the Selectmen received a copy. We would have given them one ourselves. But all this back room politics is getting a little out of hand.

We are actually pretty amazed that our little business plan had created such a back room political spin to it. It just goes to show how resistant to change and forward progress some people truly are.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[robmac]

Tom,I for one have skydived indoor and out of a plane. I think your plan brings a positive finacial impact to the region as well as a recreational one. I have just emailed the LAA requesting info from them reguarding weather a member had the item put on the agenda,if you pm me I will forward you a copy of the request. Rob

[flyguy]

So Tom says "Modern parachutes have accuracy and directional control similar to aircraft". Apparently the chutes of the Golden Knights aren't as good: “Golden Knight gets stuck on ballpark flagpole”, Army Times, August 2010.

As for the Selectmen, perhaps they were influenced by this very recent incident; One dead after skydivers collide in Kentucky"

And he says: "We will bring jobs and $1,000,000 of economic stimulus to the area (and we can prove it)."

Please do so. I'm sure we would all like to see the "proof"!

[TheNoonans]

Greetings,

My name is Tom Noonan, I am one half of the Skydive Laconia proposal. My wife Mary is the other half. I came across this forum and thought it would be an excellent opportunity to introduce myself and open up a dialogue with anyone that had any questions or concerns.

A brief background on who we are: I grew up in Boston and my wife in Syracuse, so we are both born and raised New Englanders at heart. Up until 2006, we lived in Southern New Hampshire, when we moved to Florida to pursue our aviation related careers. It is our love of New Hampshire and desire to return there that has led us to pursue a skydiving operation at the Laconia Municipal Airport.

From the beginning, we recognized the fact that our presence at the airport would alter the status quo of daily operations, and our goal from the beginning was to work with the airport authority to ensure our presence there would create as minimal a disruption as possible. We genuinely want to be good neighbors within the community.

With that said, we also realized that it was highly unlikely that 100% of the community would embrace our presence. We were pleased to see however that at the November 2008 LAA meeting that the vast majority of attendees genuinely did embrace our presence and wished us well. We have also met with a number of local community members outside the airport, and they too have supported and embraced our goal.

What we represent is the potential addition of 100s if not over 1000 additional tourist to the Weirs Beach/Laconia/Gilford area between April 1-October 31 each year. These additional tourists will be patronizing restaurants, hotels, gas stations and many other community destinations. We also represent new jobs. If given permission to operate, we intend to hire local community members to work with us. They will learn highly specialized skills such as parachute packing and aviation related office management, and eventually we hope to train local residents to become our future skydiving instructors. These specialized trade skills will allow them to literally travel the world if they choose to, enjoying a unique new perspective of "job satisfaction" as they sail through the sky. Basically, we feel we represent a potential boost to the local economy that will be felt across a broad spectrum of the community, not just the airport.

With that said, we realize that unless your in our sport, very few people will ever truly understand what it is that we propose to do and how we do it, and it is simply that lack of understanding that tends to cause negative reactions in some. We sincerely encourage anyone that has any questions or concerns to email us the_noonans@yahoo.com, and we will do our best to reply to any and all questions.

We can certainly appreciate the original poster's question regarding "do YOU want people jumping out of planes above YOUR home?" To that I would answer that the probability of a skydiver crashing into someone's house is so remote that realistically you would be much more likely to ever have a plane crash into your house than a skydiver, yet we don't attempt to prevent aircraft from flying over residential areas. I can site numerous examples of aircraft "parking" themselves in people's homes unannounced, where as i cannot find a single instance of a skydiver crashing into someone's house. Another question that was raised in our November 2008 meeting was (as depicted in the above photo), the likelyhood of skydiver/aircraft collisions. I had to go back ten years to find two separate instances of these types of collisions, yet the NTSB states that there is an aircraft to aircraft collision every ten days in the US. Again, you are far more likely to ever have an aircraft to aircraft collision than you ever would a skydiver/aircraft collision, yet aircraft are not restricted from flying in the sky with each other. (Of the two skydiver aircraft collisions, both were skydivers and skydiving aircraft. One instance, everyone survived uninjured. In the other instance, the skydiver was killed, and the pilot, who survived, was violated by the FAA for negligence, flying a radical pattern rather than the predetermined one.) The truth is simply that the concern of skydiver/aircraft collisions at Laconia Municipal Airport is simply not a realistic concern based on all available evidence.

What the issue really comes down to is education. We expect people to question us and our proposal, and feel that if they truly listen to us with an open mind, they will see that our presence will create a minimal intrusion to the aviation landscape, while bringing a significant boost to the local economy.

If and when this proposal request gets resolved and we are given permission to operate, we invite the local community to come out and meet us and learn about what it is that we do. If you want to truly understand it, make a skydive with us, we'd be happy to show you our world in the sky.

We look forward to the completion of this application process and becoming good neighbors of the airport community and the surrounding areas. I will post here the next time we will be in the area for a future Airport Authority meeting, so that if you'd like to come out and meet us or have us answer any questions that you have.

Blue skies to all, and to all a good flight,

Tom Noonan

(P.S. - That really is a great picture in the original post, even from our side of the discussion, we can appreciate a good satire of our request. My wife and I both genuinely laughed when we saw it. Very well done.)

[sa meredith]

I, for one, can say I am glad you folks are here.
This is something I have always wanted to try, but it is one of those "well, I won't go out my way, but when the opportunity presents itself...".
Well, I guess it is presenting itself.
I'll see you this summer, if all goes well.

[Ropetow]

Thanks to Tom Noonan for his post. Sounds like it is a business with some good potential for the Lakes Region. But what about the points mentioned by Bill Hemmel, about the interruption to current flight traffic given the proposal for the divers to land at Laconia Airport? I'd hate to see a new business negatively impact existing operations there.

[Pineedles]

I am among the "why exit a perfectly good aircraft" crowd but if we parachuted into lake it would be a bit more ameniable to me. Is this possible? I can swim alot better than I can walk, or run for that matter. It is intruiging.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

As a "white knuckle" flier I can't really appreciate sky diving however I know many that love the sport. My feeling is, whatever floats your boat is ok by me. I am not even concerned that someone holding on to a few dozen yards of silk (nylon?) would fall on my roof. However, it does concern me that someone would be jumping into an area with real aircraft landing and taking off. I did see on the Laconia Airport website ( http://www.laconiaairport.com/laa/pilots_fielddata.htm ) that they list Aircraft operations: avg 97/day. Is it really safe to jump into the middle of that? Other than my concern about the landing area I wish you well. I might even be tempted to drive by the field and watch so long as I don't have to jump.

[Gatto Nero]

Good luck, Tom & Mary! My son decided a couple of years ago that he wanted me to take him skydiving for his 18th birthday. He'll be 18 this spring and until now I had no idea where to take him. I did a couple static line jumps out in Orange Ma back in the 80's but have been itching to do a free fall tandem for years now. I'm glad to see there may be a place local to give it go. If history serves I should be able to gather up a few of my more hearty friends and relatives to join us when we come. How many divers will you be able to take up at once? You'll have a place set up for tailgating after the jump right? Please let us know how you make out. We hope to meet you soon.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

However, it does concern me that someone would be jumping into an area with real aircraft landing and taking off. I did see on the Laconia Airport website ( http://www.laconiaairport.com/laa/pilots_fielddata.htm ) that they list Aircraft operations: avg 97/day. Is it really safe to jump into the middle of that?

Actually weekend traffic can run a LOT higher- look at the jets in this weekend photo!

This is the crux of the problem. No one I know of has any objections to skydiving per se- it's relatively safe. It's that the operators insist that they must drift down into the middle of this air traffic and land directly on the airport- between the active runaway and an active taxiway. In fact, when the wind is out of the southwest, they actually propose drifting across the active runway!

Beats me why they can't jump into a nearby field and ferry their clients back.

Here's a view that may help clear things up:

[Ropetow]

Thanks Bill, for giving some clarity to the landing area through your graphic. I tend to agree that the skydiving business is a great idea, but the choice of a landing area is a problem. Hopefully Mr. Noonan will comment directly to your post, one aviator to another.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Actually weekend traffic can run a LOT higher- look at the jets in this weekend photo!

This is the crux of the problem. No one I know of has any objections to skydiving per se- it's relatively safe. It's that the operators insist that they must drift down into the middle of this air traffic and land directly on the airport- between the active runaway and an active taxiway. In fact, when the wind is out of the southwest, they actually propose drifting across the active runway!

Beats me why they can't jump into a nearby field and ferry their clients back.

Here's a view that may help clear things up:

So what happens when a plane wants to either takeoff or land when the jump plane is in the air ? And on a summer weekend, which is when their business would be the busiest, what kind of hourly rate of takeoffs / landings does Laconia typically have ? Lastly what kind of space is required for the jump landing area and what, if anything suitable, is available nearby ?

BTW -sounds like fun. I may have to go visit that simulated sky dive place in Nashua (SkyVenture) and get "tuned up".

[John A. Birdsall]

Hi, welcome to the board. I think you will find that FLL will be your first jumper as he is always flying off the handle about something. Good luck.

[CanisLupusArctos]

How about operating out of Moultonboro airport when Laconia is having busy weekends? Ever thought of "SkyDive Plymouth?" You'd get all the PSU students, with a fresh crop of new arrivals every year...

[Mr. Moyer]

I along with many other wish the Noonan's the best of luck with their business. As with most new idea's and business opportunities, there will be some who are out to sabotage the success. I for one would like to invite any and all new businesses to open in NH, God knows we could use the revenue. The Noonans will go through all of the strict FAA guidelines and the insurance evaluations prior to being allowed to open the business. And for me that is enough. I can only hope they won't get scared off before seeing their dream through, by overzealous folks with nothing better to do then make their lives difficult. I think it would be great to have an attraction like this over Winnie, and it would give my visitors an additional activity when they visit. My wife and I skydived in Las Vegas a few years ago. and although she will never partake again, we recommend it to everyone we know. Heck, I just might do it again, if it's available in NH. Good luck and I hope to meet you both when you get back to the Granite state.

[TheNoonans]

Hi CanisLupusArctos,

That's a good question. My wife and I have had a few discussions about the potential high traffic days at the airport during NASCAR weekends. If as we have been told, the NASCAR weekends bring in a particularly large number of aircraft for the event, we will in all likelyhood choose to close our operation at Laconia Municipal Airport for part or all of that first NASCAR weekend so that we can accurately assess the increase in air traffic.

If after assessing the air traffic that first NASCAR weekend, we felt that we could safely interact with the other air traffic despite the increase in aircraft, then we would consider operating on future NASCAR weekends, even if at a reduced rate. Or, if after the first NASCAR weekend we concluded that the increase in air traffic was not conducive to safely accommodating our skydiving operation, we would probably plan to just start taking those weekends off and attending the races ourselves.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Kamper]

This idea seems to be more well thought out than I had at first believed (01-16-2009 05:27 PM).

Most of the potential for conflict can be avoided by common sense and planning. For instance, not jumping the day before a race and the day after or at other times the airport is predicted to be busy.

Good luck to all involved.

[hazelnut]

It's disappointing to read this thread where some people are posting personal opinions to discredit an idea they just don't agree with or understand. It seems to me that the Noonan's would know the safety and regulations associated with the proposal. It would also seem that the proposal is not without precedent. I am sure hundreds of operations at similar airports take place safely all over the country. I'll probably never be a client but I welcome them to the area nonetheless. They seem like intelligent careful business operators. Good Luck with your proposal and hopefully you can educate the public in the process.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by CanisLupusArctos

How about operating out of Moultonboro airport when Laconia is having busy weekends? Ever thought of "SkyDive Plymouth?" You'd get all the PSU students, with a fresh crop of new arrivals every year...

Have they ceased the skydiving ops at Moultonboro? I know they were doing sightseeing and skydiving there a few years ago. I like to watch it but not interested in jumping again. When I did it in 1960 in PA there were no tandem jumps. The way I see it is if you can build it 'They will come'. The nearest decent size op is now in Lebanon, Maine.
Once a suitable landing area is established at LCI the only problems I would foresee would be NORDO traffic in or transiting the area. Don't know if there is much there but there is some in the Skyhaven area.
I used to fly into White Mountain Apt a lot (No Conway) and we had no problems with all the glider traffic back then - seems to me it's about the same.

[TheNoonans]

Hi Seeker,

Thank you for your comment on the possibility of no radio flights in the area.

If we are given permission to operate at LCI, we intend to file a daily NOTAM of skydiving operations over LCI whenever we are operating.

As an added safety measure, before any skydiver exits an aircraft, a spotter (called a Load Organizer, or LO) always scans the surrounding area below for any approaching traffic. If the LO spots an aircraft in close proximity, he or she can elect to hold skydivers in the aircraft until the aircraft in question is no longer in the area.

Between filing daily NOTAMs and using an LO in flight, skydiving operations around the country peacefully coexist with NORDO traffic.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Mr. V]

Cool.

With a bit of training, you'll be soaring through the White Mtns.

http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_...=&fullscreen=1

[Pontoon Goon]

Tom,
I would like to wish both you and your wife nothing but the best of luck. We are all seeing the true value of this forum when information can be shared like this, both pro and con. You have taken on all questions and responded in a professional and forthright manner. My friends and I have all exchanged the "I-will-if-you-wills" and are hoping things work out. Two have decided to wait for it to come out on Wii. Aside from participating I think it would be fun on a nice summer day to grab an ice cream from Sawyers or a sandwich from Waldo Peppers and spend some time watching the excitement.
You have been very good answering technical and procedural questions and I feel very comfortable with your experience and knowledge. Its just that if you have been following this forum, and it appears you have, you may be aware of some other merchants and the antics they have pulled when having a bad day. There is the bookstore that body slammed a child, a pizza shop that swept the floor and put it in a nice lady's sub and the computer shop that replaced a hard drive with a gerbil. (I am not sure on that one I might have lost focus). I guess what my question is what do YOU do on a bad day? What if we go through all that you have to go through to make a jump and all seems fine. We take off and I get tense, nervous, it turns out I'm a thrasher or dooms sayer, or worse, a wetter. You are already having a bad day so I get ejected sans chute. On the way down I hear you yelling "Please visit our gift shooooooooppe.........." Could you at least dump me over the lake?

[TheNoonans]

"Two have decided to wait for it to come out on Wii."

That is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time.

Hi Pontoon Goon,

You've posed a really interesting question.

I think the primary difference you will see in our operation regarding work ethic, versus say a pizza shop employee, is the passion that we have for what we do. Most employees and even alot of business owners may enjoy thier job, but it is still a job. Given the option to work or do something else they enjoy doing, most people will opt to do something else. We are very fortunate in that our jobs are our passion.

The other part of the answer has to do with the responsibility of being a skydiving instructor. When we work with skydiving students, 100% of thier well being is in our hands, similar to a CFI. It is an awesome responsibility and one we take very very seriously. Outside of this business venture proposal, I am the Tandem Training Program Director for one of the largest tandem equipment manufacturers in the world (located in Orlando, FL). I am responsible for the continuing education and training standards of thousands of tandem instructors around the globe. I say this only to offer to the readers that my professional skydiving career is based in large part on my ability to effectively communicate safety protocols and training methods to others.

To answer your other question about potential student panic, one of the things that we point out in the beginning of all our training is that you can change your mind about skydiving right up until you leave the plane. You can go through the entire pre jump training, climb in the plane and go all the way up in the plane ride, and still have the opportunity to change your mind. After your instructor has you hooked up and your exit time is near, they will ask you "Are you ready to skydive?". If the answer is "No". They will bring you back down in the plane, no questions asked. No pressure, no problem. As for any possibilities of a student not performing well in freefall, we train everyone to participate as fully as possible on their first skydive from body positions to even opening the parachute. If a student forgets everything they have learned or panics when they exit the plane, the tandem instructor is trained to handle any and all occurances such as that calmy and professionally. Part of my job as Tandem Training Program Director is that I am the first tandem passenger that my tandem instructor candidates take skydiving during their training courses, so I can speak from first hand experience that when an instructor graduates our tandem training course, they are prepared to handle whatever they encounter in a calm, professional manner.

We look forward to your visit and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and offer your support. We also encourage anyone that is interested in what we do to stop by and visit us, even if just to hang out, watch the parachutes land and let us talk your ears off about anything and everything skydiving related.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Gatto Nero]

Tom, I'm starting to think that Flyguy might have done you a favor by posting his resistance to your business. You've done a great job of defending yourself and probably earned more than a few converts. And look at all the exposure your getting. You're probably increasing your potential customer base with each response. It's all good, man.

For all those who have never tried and insist they never will, I would encourage you to look a little deeper inside yourself. When it's all said and done it will be one of the most exciting things you will ever experience. I think it should be one everyone's bucket list. I found that when I got out on the wing it really wasn't as scary as I thought it would be. At that altitude the ground is kind of an obscure thing and not so scary. It's easier than jumping off a high bridge into the water. You don't get that same knot in your gut. For me, anyway.

[Pineedles]

Thanks Gatto Nero, I can't tell you how much this thread has helped me realize that this is something that I have always wanted to do. When I was 12 and climbing Chocoroa for the first time I got seperated from my older cousin who was leading us up. I climbed up on the opposite side of the trail to the top, climbing over rocks and leaping from rock top to rock top all the way hearing people's voices above me, knowing I was close to the top but just not quite there. I wasn't scared until I reached the top and looked down onto the wrong path that I had taken to reach the summit. I felt a sense of pride that day that I had really conquered that mountain. I have never had that feeling again, and would like to feel it once more. I think the Noonans can count me in as a tandem 1st timer this summer. 250 lbs., 6' 6'', 54 yrs old, good health, OK? I can lose 10 or 15 if it is needed before then.

[TheNoonans]

Hi Gatto Nero,

We are definitely thankful that we found this thread and forum, as it provides us a venue to provide the community with factual information regarding our Skydive Laconia proposal. The community response has been incredibly positive, and we thank you all for your posts and your emails offering your support, they are all very much appreciated.

We continue to respect Mr. Hemmel's opinion regarding our proposal, and wish him well in his pursuits. We hope that if/when we receive permission from the LAA to operate, that he will stop by and spend some time with us and get to know us and our operation.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Gatto Nero]

Tom,

When do you expect to know more about the status of your proposal? Is there anything that we on the forum who support you can do to help?

[trfour]

He Dots his I's and crosses his T's, and I am more than positive if he needs any help from us, Tom will be in touch.

[Pineedles]

According to this article, a tandem jump ended in tragedy, but it was the instructor who was in trouble; His trainee tandem jumper took over and landed the pair safely.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486409,00.html

I feel sorry for the instructor, but a bit more comfortable about jumping.

[TheNoonans]

Good afternoon all,

I got a phone call on Saturday around 4:45pm informing me that my friend and former coworker, had passed away on a tandem skydive, in all probability of a heart attack under his main parachute on a tandem jump. My wife and I have yet to make peace with the fact he is gone, but we take comfort in knowing that he died doing what he loved most in the world, skydiving.

Mary and I talked it over last night and we decided that we wanted to offer the winnipesaukee.com community some insight into the safety protocols that go into making a tandem skydive, in that hopes that it would provide some peace of mind to those in the community that may have questions stemming from this incident.

The first thing I would like to offer is that in order to qualify to become a tandem instructor, every candidate is required to go through an FAA Class III flight physical administered by an appropriately rated FAA Medical Examiner. This medical certificate is also required to be a Student Pilot' to pursue aircraft flight training, including solo training flights. The Class III is required to be kept current, meaning every three years it must be renewed if you are under 40 and every 2 years if you are over 40. In this case, the instructor did have a current FAA Class III medical certificate.

The second thing I would like to offer is that both the main and reserve parachutes are set to open in a "half brake" setting, so that if in the unlikely event the tandem instructor is rendered unable to control the parachute, it will sail to the ground in a slow, survivable speed. Both the main and reserve parachutes are also exceptionally large and docile parachutes, again, so that in the highly unlikely event no input is given once the parachute is open, the canopy will drift slowly to the ground.

The third safety protocol I would like to offer is that all tandem parachute systems are equipped with on board computers, called AADs. These Automatic Activation Devices are a secondary safety protocol, or "back up" if you will. In the highly unlikely event that a tandem instructor is unable to deploy the parachute once in freefall, the AAD unit will automatically release the reserve parachute at a predetermined altitude high enough to allow it to float to the ground once deployed.

With these three safety protocols in place, tandem passengers are protected from the highly unlikely event of a tandem instructor being rendered unable to do his (or her) job. I offer all of this information to the community to assure you all that your collective safety is our industry's number one priority and while no aeronautical activity can be made 100% risk free, there are multiple safety protocols in place to ensure that tandem passengers are not placed in any undue risk situations, even in highly uncommon scenarios such as what occurred this past weekend.

My wife and I continue to remain available to answer any and all skydiving specifics questions or concerns, but I hope you will all understand if we choose not go into specifics regarding the loss of our friend. General questions about the incident are fine, we just cannot in good faith, publicly discuss details of our friend's passing.

The tandem passenger that attempted CPR is truly a hero and despite the pain of our loss, we are comforted in the thought that in the last moments of our friend's life, he was cared for and not alone. Hopefully someday we will have the opportunity to meet the tandem student and thank him personally.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[TheNoonans]

Hi Mr. Hemmel,

I'd be happy to try and answer your question/concern relating to the landing area picture you have posted.

Your picture is an accurate representation of what we have requested of the Laconia Airport Authority, to be granted permission to land on the airport with the largest designated landing area being outlined by your yellow box. What is slightly inaccurate, is that based on prevailing winds, we expect the majority of all parachute operations to occur north of the runway, rarely, if ever, needing to cross the runway as your arrows are indicating. The majority of the aircraft patterns at the airport are south of the runway, so for the most part, our operational area will be completely separate from aircraft landing patterns. As we mentioned in our November 2008 presentation to the LAA, there are currently over 270 other drop zones in the US, many with jet traffic similar to Laconia, that safely accommodate a landing pattern such as we have proposed. There is nothing inherently unsafe about a parachute landing in your outlined area with taxiing and landing/departing aircraft nearby. Our parachutes are highly accurate and fly similar patterns to aircraft (albeit shorter patterns). Beyond that, the FAA makes no distinction between parachutes and aircraft at airports such as Laconia when it comes to airport access rights. The FAA states that parachutes have the same right to the airspace above the airport as any aircraft, and have the same rights to land on the airport. Imagine if we were requesting to open a helicopter flight school, would anyone question our request to land a helicopter on the airfield? In all likelyhood, no. And why would they. Just because our parachutes lack engines, it makes them no less an aeronautical activity than flying an aircraft. That's not our opinion, that's the FAA's position.

We understand that we represent something new and unknown to the majority of the aviation community. We have made every effort to communicate and educate those that we have worked with in the LAA to provide as much information as possible. The airport manager has an eight page mission statement we provided in August of 2008 and a 40+ page proposal to the LAA we provided in November 2008. By all means, I would encourage anyone that wants to learn more about who we are and what we propose to offer, stop by the terminal building and ask to see our information.

The other thing I would like to offer here is that we are not making any demands of the LAA regarding where we want to land, we simply want to work with the LAA to select the most viable landing areas to satisfy all involved. We are simply waiting for the LAA to say "okay, we agree you have a right to land here, let's work together to find a solution that serves the best interest of all involved here." The key word is "together". For lack of a better term, when it comes to drop zones and skydiving operations, based on our experience and positions, my wife and I are considered to be industry "experts". As such, all we want is to be included in the decision making process. If the LAA wants to say "no, landing in front of the terminal building is not possible". We want them to justify why. Simply saying "it's unsafe" is not enough. We, and subsequently the FAA would need more than that. We know from first hand experience that landing in an area such as what is outlined in your picture is an ideal location. It's done like that all across the country. Not wanting us to land there as a personal preference, or denying us based on the broad stoke of "safety concerns" goes against the federal grant assurances that airports such as Laconia Municipal Airport agree to abide by when accepting federal funding. To deny us landing there, just cause needs to be shown, and to be fair, based on our industry experience, it simply does not exist.

We genuinely respect your position Mr. Hemmel, but the truth is, you know very little about us or the minimal effect we will have on airport operations. Your opinions are based on common misconceptions of skydiving. Your question "do YOU want people jumping out of planes above YOUR home?" is an accurate example of that. The truth is that the neighbors of the airport are hundreds, if not a thousand times more likely to have a plane crash into their home than they ever would have a skydiver. Yet, the intent of your question (and entire first post) was to create an uninformed anxiety amongst the public to back your presumed position against us. If you truly want to understand how little intrusion our proposed operation will have on you and any other surrounding aircraft operator or resident, I would invite you to meet us for lunch prior to the next LAA meeting we attend. We would be happy to explain in detail to you, or to anyone interested, the specifics of our operational proposals. If it were of that sincere an interest to the community, we would arrange to do a community open house presentation for the residents of Laconia and Gilford. We offered to do that in August 2008, but were told that a "town hall" forum like that did not exist. If you, or anyone can find a location for us to hold the meeting, we would be happy to oblige you and hold a "town hall" style meeting for the community to address our request and their concerns.

We really do want the community to embrace our efforts, and are willing to share as much information as requested to set people's minds at ease.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom Noonan

[TheNoonans]

Hi Mee-n-Mac,

I'll see if I can answer the questions in the order they were asked:

There is no reason other aircraft can't depart or land while the skydiving aircraft is climbing to altitude.

Our hourly rate of take offs and landings, at peak times, would be 2 per hour. Possibly 2.5, but that's highly unlikely.

I believe someone quoted in an above post that Laconia has 97 operations per day during peak weekends.

Our primary preference for landing would be one of the small (approximately) 100x100ft postage stamp sized grass areas out in front of the hangars. Specifically, whatever hangar we end up leasing or buying. Not the grass between the runway and taxiways. Our parachutes are that accurate, and we only expect at most 4-6 parachutes in the air at any one time, for a duration of 5-7 minutes, twice an hour or so.

The question if anything is suitable near by is a valid one, and it's a two part answer. The first half of the answer is that if there was a location off the airfield available, it would require at a minimum, a commercial vehicle, a driver, fuel and insurance, thereby increasing the fixed and variable costs per skydive disproportionately high. It's simply not economically feasible to expect to have to shuttle hundreds of people back and forth all season. Would a flight school be able to survive economically if they could take off from Laconia, but had to land at a farm and shuttle the students back by car? People may agree or disagree with this, but it is a legitimate business concern of any aviation business. The second part of the explanation is a little more complicated. The Laconia Municipal Airport accepts federal funding, and as such is bound by federal funding grant assurances. The federal funding is the reason the airport is the gem that it is. The FAA has gone to great lengths to spell out the fact that if an airport such as this accepts federal funding, they are required to accommodate all aeronautical activities, and they clearly spell it out in an Advisory Circular, that they consider skydiving to be an aeronautical activity. My wife and I pay federal taxes just like everyone else, and as such our federal tax dollars go in part to fund the Laconia Municipal Airport. We have a federally protected right to land our parachutes on the airport, and we are simply pursuing our rights to do so.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by flyguy

... this proposal is similar to placing a skate park next to RT93. ...

I think it's more like putting a skate park in the -median- of I93 with access only through the travel lanes.

Scary!

[fatlazyless]

Isn't there a large, vacant, and mostly unused parking lot directly across Route 11 from the Laconia Airport. You know, the p-lot with the water tower and the NH State liquor store. It's just a short jog back across the road from the p-lot to the hanger area like a quarter mile or so. Skydiver landing on an asphalt p-lot....at least you'll be able to find a parking spot, easy!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Kamper

I think it's more like putting a skate park in the -median- of I93 with access only through the travel lanes.

Scary!

Only if you're allowing vehicular traffic when the skaters cross. We do have the concept called traffic lights and that's the point of my earlier questions. I suspect (don't know) that departures and landings are on hold while divers are in the air above the airport. The question isn't so much one of safety but one of convience. Are sky divers required to get permission from the tower prior to leaving the plane, can they be told to hold while other traffic clears or is that other traffic told to hold until those in the air are on the ground ?

[Heaven]

Your business would support only the tandem jumping and not other jumpers?

[TheNoonans]

Hi Mee-n-Mac,

Advisory notifications are given via radio on a common traffic frequency and air traffic control prior to taxi, prior to take off, prior to exit and following exit. Our freefall altitudes and parachute flight patterns do not require the holding of other aircraft, departing or landing.

Pilot's of skydiving aircraft are not required to request permission to drop jumpers. They do however remain in radio contact with air trafic control and monitor the local frequency, and can and do hold jumpers from time to time if other aircraft are approaching.

To answer the other poster's question:

While the location and tourist nature of the area lends itself to a large volume of projected tandem skydives being made. We will also welcome experienced licensed skydivers to skydive with us. Regarding student training, from the beginning one of our primary goals was to provide the local community the opportunity to share our passion for skydiving and offer training for skydiving licenses. With that said, student training will be done by appointment and we will in all likelyhood schedule such training for general aviation's "non peak" times.

I hope that explains our intent.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom Noonan

[topwater]

Thank you Tom, you have been quite gracious with your answers. I have found on here alot (NOT EVERYONE) that some of these people just like anywhere else in the world just need something to pi## and Moan about. They probably other then FlyGuy have never flown out of Laconia, or ever even skydived before. I have jumped up in Moultonboro Airport 12 years ago (tantum) from 13k and cannot recall how long it took from actual jumping to feet on the ground, but I know it wasn't very long, so even if a plane had to wait for a diver to land, how long would they be inconvenienced 4-5 minutes?
I wish you the best of luck and WHEN you open I'll see you in August for a 52nd Birthday jump.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by topwater

... so even if a plane had to wait for a diver to land, how long would they be inconvenienced 4-5 minutes?.

Many of the private jets you see at Laconia are chartered for $3,000-$3,500 per hour. If it was your charter, how long would you want to wait?

My own aircraft fees run slightly under $200/hour. Should I be forced to spend $20 waiting for someone else to land?

[TheNoonans]

"I DO care if they want to willingly endanger both their customers and our local air traffic, which I believe will occur if they try to land on airport"

Mr. Hemmel,

I am a professional skydiver. This is what I do for a living. To even suggest the idea that our business is going to "willingly endanger" both our customers and our local air traffic, is absurd. We can provide testimony from airline and corporate pilots experienced with skydiving operations that would disagree with your opinion entirely. (We have provided this testimony to the LAA).

Regarding wait times of other aircraft, our operation will place no more or less wait time restrictions on departing or approaching aircraft than any other aircraft on the airfield. A $3500/hr Cessna Citation charter will have the same wait time waiting for your Aerial Photography flight to taxi/take off as our aircraft. That is the extent of the inconvenience the local air traffic will be forced to endure from our presence. While we are actually skydiving (in freefall or under parachute), it is normal practice for other aircraft operations to continue uninterupted.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom Noonan

[Pineedles]

This appears to be a discussion among professionals and perhaps should be taken offline. I don't think that any of us has the expertize to understand the air traffic control ramifications that would be experienced with these types of occurances. Am I wrong?

[Whimsey]

If those who are qualified deem it safe (and that's not me), it seems to me that this is a great opportunity/attraction for the area. Sorry, Flyguy, but the relatively modest inconvenience of greater utilization of the airport shouldn't bear on the answer in this case. In fact, isn't greater utilization a good thing in the long run?

[TiltonBB]

I have flown, as a pilot, in and out of Laconia. There is no control tower at Laconia Airport that clears airplanes to land or take off. The aircraft operating in the area communicate on a common air traffic frequency. It works quite well at smaller airports such as Laconia.

I think that this business may be a good idea and the Noonans seem to be quite experienced, as well as willing to work with the local community. It is no secret that we can use additional people spending money in the area and supporting local businesses. You only have to drive down Union Avenue to see all of the vacant commercial space for rent to realize that we have a problem. Most small local businesses have 16 weeks to make enough money to carry them for the whole year.

I am concerned about the interaction of pilots and skydivers at an uncontrolled airport. If I am landing, or departing, in an airplane I want to be confident that a skydiver, even if he is blown off course, will not suddenly appear in front of me. If that is not a problem then I think that this may be a great idea for the community.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by Whimsey

If those who are qualified deem it safe (and that's not me), it seems to me that this is a great opportunity/attraction for the area. Sorry, Flyguy, but the relatively modest inconvenience of greater utilization of the airport shouldn't bear on the answer in this case. In fact, isn't greater utilization a good thing in the long run?

You're right, Whimsey. Greater utilization would be a good thing, and the inconvenience isn't a serious issue (unless it's your ox that's being gored!) It would be a great idea -except for the landing on the airport part.

FYI- Having been FAA certified and actively worked as both an Air Traffic Controller and an Airline Transport Pilot, I have some experience other than just photography. I have also held a Commercial Helicopter and Flight Instructor ratings. Stopped keeping track of my flight time at around 6,000 hours on the early '90's. I therefore do consider myself qualified in this area, and believe that this "we have to land on the airport" approach will lead to decreased airspace safety. That's my qualified opinion based on both years of experience and familiarity with Laconia air traffic. I'm stickin' to it.

[trfour]

Dear Mr and Ms Noonan,

I am 125% behind you and am looking forward to the complete success of your business at the Laconia Municipal Airport.
Regards, Terry

http://www.uspa.org/AboutSkydiving/F...1/Default.aspx

[fatlazyless]

What's the usual altitude for jumping out the door up above Laconia Airport. and how long before you touch the ground? What shape and color are the parachutes? Can the parachutes be steered?

[Lakepilot]

It would be more dangerous to have parachutists land near to the airport than on the airport. Airplanes fly landing patterns alongside the airport not over the airport. And while they're doing that their eyes are often looking at the airport more then straight ahead. The best place to parachute into is the center of the airport.

I've landed at many airports that have extensive parachute activity and never found it to be a problem. I have never jumped out of an airplane though and will never be a customer of the Noonans.

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

What's the usual altitude for jumping out the door up above Laconia Airport. and how long before you touch the ground? What shape and color are the parachutes? Can the parachutes be steered?

Less, This video isn't Mrs.SteveA, but the same dive operator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymucaOXui90

They jump from about 10K ', 40 second free fall, 5 minuet canopy ride.

What amazed me watching from the ground was how well they co-ordinated the whole event. They are a husband and wife team. She goes out just before the tandem, and starts the still pics and video. ( All from a helmet cameras with bite switches to control the cams)

We waited at the landing area and they steered right into it with no problem even though it was fairly windy that day.

They put together the video within 10 minuets of landing and the boss had her choice of music. Very professional operation all around.

I still wouldn't do it But it came off as a classy operation and a safe thing to try.

I for one hope they get it approved.

[trfour]

I have lived here, year round, for over fifteen years and have been a big fan of Mr. Hemmel. On more than one occasion, in fact, I have jumped up and opened both the front and back doors at the camp, on Paugus Bay, to let him fly through taking his wonderful photos.... However,.. with this thread, I am very disappointed with his attempt to put such a negative spin on Mr. and Mrs. Noonan's business project here, especially while so infant in it's process!

Tell me something Bill, how many folks on the board at the time of your licensing, were there that were of the opinion that a pilot and photographer could not possibly fly over Lake Winnipesaukee at a safe altitude of less than 125000 feet?

Like I said, forgive me.
Just my $2.00 worth, they tell me things are going Up and hopefully Forward....
Terry

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by trfour

... with this thread, I am very disappointed with his attempt to put such a negative spin on Mr. and Mrs. Noonan's business project here, especially while so infant in it's process!Terry

Absolutely not true. I don't know them, I have no financial interest in any airport business, and I don't care if they start a business or not. I think skydiving is one of the "funnest" things you can do in the air with your clothes on. I did it before either Noonan was born.

I don't dispute it's recreational value. I don't consider it unsafe per se. I don't envision any skydivers "crashing through houses" in the area. My initial question was intended only to get an active thread going- apparently that part worked.

I DO care if they want to willingly endanger both their customers and our local air traffic, which I believe will occur if they try to land on airport. There is a reason we don't let pedestrians cross RT. 93.

(BTW- Thanks for opening the rear door! )

[vjdooley]

By way of introduction, my name is Vincent Dooley. My uncle, Fenton Dooley, was originally from the New Haven CT area. He returned to the place he loved as a child and spent the last years of his life on Cotton Hill (Gilford) where he diligently practiced law and mentored future lawyers until his death in 1996.

Fenton was one of seven children. Each summer our extended family would trek up to the hill where we would meet cousins from far away places to play in your exotic paradise. I have other family members in the Laconia/Gilford area who either take up summer residence each year or reside in the area full time. I do not know what opinions they may have on this subject and I am not speaking for them.

I have been an avid skydiver since 1992. During those years, I have travelled extensively and made skydives in many different places and under many different conditions. While my skydiving resume is not as impressive as Tom Noonen's, I have known him for many years. He is an extremely competent skydiver.

Tom is also the director of tandem training for Strong Enterprise. As a a certified FAA rigger, I am very familiar the tandem rigs developed and manufactured by its founder Ted Strong. While I have no desire to earn a living in that arduous fashion, I am nonetheless proud to hold the privilege to do so. Its proven record of safety speaks for itself.

Skydiving and air travel have been living in relative harmony for many years. There are a number of drop zones all over the country that are in the flight paths of airports with much higher volume than Laconia. More than anyone, skydivers recognize the obvious fact that objects in the physical universe do collide. All those involved in the aviation industry do our best to avoid being one of those objects.

Many of my family members think I am nuts for having followed the path I have chosen. They still would like to see me every now and then. It would be a privilege for me to skydive in this area and will cherish the memory. Thank you for allowing me to express my opinion.

[skisox24]

I wish the Noonans all the luck in the world with their ambitious venture. What an exciting addition to the resources available to residents and tourists in the Lakes Region.

I wonder if there is an age limit to the tandem skydive activity? I am a reasonably heatlthy male in his mid sixties who has never skydived. Eligible?

[eillac@dow]

I also wish the Noonan's the best of wishes in their adventure. I do appreciate that they respond to the members concerns. Based on the responses they have provided, I really believe they are truly committed to their work (of skydiving!!). I for one, would never think of doing such a thing, but seriously, after reading all of these posts......I really kind of want too!

To the Noonans....The Best of Luck to you......who knows I may meet you sometime....in the air!

[flyguy]

If you haven't yet got the idea of the potential problems this proposal raises- and it seems some of you haven't- take a peek at this video. This skydiver was also jumping directly over an airport.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by flyguy

If you haven't yet got the idea of the potential problems this proposal raises- and it seems some of you haven't- take a peek at this video. This skydiver was also jumping directly over an airport.

But I can get hit crossing the street by an oncoming car as well. Yes this is the increased risk of skydiving. Everything can be dangerous in anyway you want it to be.
Do not get me wrong Skydying is one of those risks that you DO NOT have to take, but like with anything if you choose to do an activity there can be consequences

[TheNoonans]

Hi Skisox24,

The minimum age limit for tandem skydiving is 18 years of age. There is no maximum age limit for tandem students. Just this past Saturday, I had the honor of taking a retired member of the 82nd Airborne on a tandem skydive for his 85th birthday. He jumped into France during WWII, and since turning 80 years old, got back into skydiving and has gone on to make over 100 tandem skydives around the country.

Hi Flyguy,

Please forgive me for not reiterating everything that I have already posted earlier in this thread about the potential for skydiver/aircraft mid air collisions. You have your opinion, we respect it and we don't expect it to change.

Hi AC2717,

Thank you for your response. One of the most positive outcomes of this this thread is that it shows that the community as a whole is supportive and wants to judge the situation based on the facts. It really has been a pleasure communicating with everyone and we look forward to meeting you all in the near future.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[sa meredith]

Hope all goes well, and you folks are up and running this summer.
I've always wanted to try this, although must admit, when given the chance two years back, lacked the nerve. Maybe this year.
I'm very curious about what the cost will be.
Maybe it is not in your best interest to disclose this...I'm not sure.
But, if you don't mind...

[TheNoonans]

Hi sa_meredith,

Thank you for your question. Unfortunately, we can't provide pricing information yet, as we can't finalize prices until we sign a hangar lease, and we don't want to sign a hangar lease until we get an approval.

As soon as we have some firm pricing information, we will post it here for everyone.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Jmo77011]

I was so excited to come across this thread! My husband loves to skydive, but hasn't been able to in a few years. I really hope everything works out for you, Tom and Mary. My husband will be first in line...and MAYBE I'll go, too! Good luck to you!

[TheNoonans]

Hi fatlazyless,

The Ecuadorian Air Force conducts skydiving training out of a Hercules C-130 that they purchased from the United States and a Dehavilland Twin Otter that they purchased from Canada. The country's Air Force actually has a rather impressive array of aircraft that they operate, and the soldiers that I have worked with have all been professional operators that have an incredibly high code of conduct that they train by. I would invite anyone that wants to learn more about the history of the Ecuadorian Air Force to look up the group on Google or Wikipedia. They are an impressive group of aviators and skydivers and I am honored to be able to work with them.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[TheNoonans]

Hi Jmo777,

Thank you for your support. We look forward to seeing you this summer.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[TheNoonans]

Good Afternoon To All,

I will be attending the Thursday May 21st, 2009 Laconia Airport Authority (LAA) meeting in hopes of receiving an approval for our operation to begin. If any of you would like to attend the meeting to lend your support (or Mr. Hemmel, to reiterate your concerns), I would invite you all to attend the meeting.

The meeting is being held in the airport's main terminal building at 65 Aviation Drive, Gilford, NH and begins at 5:30pm.

If any of you have local businesses or work for local businesses, I would strongly encourage you to come down and show your support. The decision of the LAA to allow or deny us our federally protected right to operate on the Laconia Municipal Airport will have a significant effect on the local economy. An approval to operate will provide an increase in tourists to the area and will also extend the tourist season beyond Memorial Day to Labor Day. A denial by the LAA will result in a status quo effect on local tourism. It's your inns, restaurants, bars, grocery stores and gas stations that will lose out on additional tourist dollars generated by our operation if this ends up getting delayed further.

To be fair, we understand that despite all the evidence to support our cause, there are a handful of people that don't want us there and no amount of information or evidence will ever change that.

To that group all we can do is offer an apology for affecting their status quo but remind them that the $10,000,000+ a year that is allocated to the airport comes from tax payer dollars and that it is not "free money", it comes with federal obligations, and like us or not, we are one of those obligations. Our right to pursue a federally protected freedom is non-negotiable. We are pursuing a just cause and plan to see this through to it's logical conclusion.

That is what makes community input so vital. The decision made by the LAA will reach far beyond just the end of the runway......it will reach into your businesses, into your jobs and into your cash registers. This decision is as much about the community as it is about the airport.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[EZ-Pass]

Originally Posted by TheNoonans

Good Afternoon To All,

I will be attending the Thursday May 21st, 2009 Laconia Airport Authority (LAA) meeting in hopes of receiving an approval for our operation to begin. If any of you would like to attend the meeting to lend your support (or Mr. Hemmel, to reiterate your concerns), I would invite you all to attend the meeting.

The meeting is being held in the airport's main terminal building at 65 Aviation Drive, Gilford, NH and begins at 5:30pm.

If any of you have local businesses or work for local businesses, I would strongly encourage you to come down and show your support. The decision of the LAA to allow or deny us our federally protected right to operate on the Laconia Municipal Airport will have a significant effect on the local economy. An approval to operate will provide an increase in tourists to the area and will also extend the tourist season beyond Memorial Day to Labor Day. A denial by the LAA will result in a status quo effect on local tourism. It's your inns, restaurants, bars, grocery stores and gas stations that will lose out on additional tourist dollars generated by our operation if this ends up getting delayed further.

To be fair, we understand that despite all the evidence to support our cause, there are a handful of people that don't want us there and no amount of information or evidence will ever change that.

To that group all we can do is offer an apology for affecting their status quo but remind them that the $10,000,000+ a year that is allocated to the airport comes from tax payer dollars and that it is not "free money", it comes with federal obligations, and like us or not, we are one of those obligations. Our right to pursue a federally protected freedom is non-negotiable. We are pursuing a just cause and plan to see this through to it's logical conclusion.

That is what makes community input so vital. The decision made by the LAA will reach far beyond just the end of the runway......it will reach into your businesses, into your jobs and into your cash registers. This decision is as much about the community as it is about the airport.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

Tom, I wish TheNoonans the best of luck with your meeting with the LAA on the 21st of the month. This writer will not be able to attend, but would love to be there for your support and to meet you. You seem to have been very honest with all us with your replies here on this thread and I for one thank you for it.

[fatlazyless]

As I understand, the Laconia Airport which is totally located in Gilford, NH, does not get any scheduled commercial flights, what-so-ever, from anywhere like Boston, New York, or Burlington, Vermont, Bangor, Maine or points between. Every plane that lands there is a private, non-scheduled flight........period(!).

That tells me that the airport capacity must be very under-utilized. I know that I do not see much airplane traffic, day or night, weekend or weekday, and I have a pretty good view out to Mt Gunstock and the southern flight-way approach to the runway. Maybe once or twice/day, tops, I may see a small jet line up for an approach from the south in the summer months. From Columbus Day to Memorial Day, October to May, the long off-season, the airport seems to be as quiet as a very quiet morgue.

As I recall, Vice President Dan Quayle landed there in March, 1992, for a ski weekend. Since then, not much has been happening at the Laconia Airport, so I say....... why the heck not say yes to skydiving.....nothing ventured.....nothing gained....and right now...nothing much is being ventured at the airport.....so Skydive-Laconia should be given the big green light with a big long, red, welcome carpet, all rolled out to their plane.