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Old 02-24-2012, 08:02 AM   #1
Coastal Laker
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Angry Irwin Hyundai strikes out

Warning to everyone out there, the "America's Greatest" warranty offered by Hyundai isn't worth the paper it's written on. It's highly misleading. Short story: even if you are able to produce evidence of buying oil filters or buying oil in bulk, which many people do to save money, if you can't prove when you put it in your engine, and you have engine trouble, Irwin Hyundai won't cover any work under warranty. They won't even look for the problem and will make assumptions and blame you for neglecting your car. So, the only way to prove when oil goes in your car is to ditch doing it yourself and go to a service center each time or I guess you'll need to video tape it so they can see the oil going in and the odometer reading.

Hyundai does not stand behind it's product like I thought.

Last edited by Coastal Laker; 02-24-2012 at 08:03 AM. Reason: cleaning up grammar
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:33 AM   #2
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elaborate please
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:01 AM   #3
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Plenty of other Hyundai dealers out there.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:18 AM   #4
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Default Long story

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elaborate please
Ok, you asked for it!

Basically, car's been making a noise for a while. Thought it was a repeat of transmission problems - transmission was already replaced once. Had a minimum of three visits to the dealer that we can recall, (I'm actually in the process of trying to put together all those records since they conveniently didn't keep any). On the first visit, they couldn't duplicate the problem, 2nd visit, technician drove car home and still couldn't duplicate problem, 3rd visit I drove in and had tech come with me, still couldn't find a problem, before 4th visit, hubby did oil change and learned car had sucked in a bunch of oil, as I didn't have much left in there and it wasn't leaking anywhere. He completes the oil change and calls the dealership to say we have a problem. Then, driving to work before dropping it off again, my oil light flickers and I'm down a full quart after only 55 miles. Hyundia looks in and made an immediate assumption of a lack of maintenance and a need for a new engine. They refused to source the real problem unless we paid for them to look. We didn't agree since we take good care of our vehicles and use high quality synthetic oil. We do our own oil changes, buy stuff in bulk and was told that unless we can prove the oil changes were done when we said they were, they won't do any warranty work. So, we're liars in their eyes. It was even said that even if I bought oil and filters, it doesn't mean I used them! So, short of video evidence or a jiffy lube receipt, we're done. But they'll gladly take a few thousand from us to proceed.

What really burns me up is I've only had this car 18 months. I drive a lot of miles for my commute so I'm already up to 54k miles. I bought this car because I needed something reliable. It has yet to be reliable. In this time frame, I've had the transmission replaced within the first 6 months after several service visits, a clunking in the rear-end they could never find the cause for (although it's understood intermittent problems are hard to find), a safety recall I was told really wasn't a safety issue, and all four tires were defective and replaced, then this. AND then I find out recently from others I was talking to that the sudden acceleration that happens from time to time in my car isn't normal. I just thought the car was extra peppy on occasion. Some folks have had accidents. I haven't even gotten to address that yet. Regardless, I'm still without use of my car because I don't have $6k for an engine that I'm not even sure I need.

There are a few different things that could cause the issues that are suspected with my car. Never in my wildest dreams would I expect a reputable dealer to first accuse us of neglecting our car, before really identifying the problem. If we're so neglectful, why'd I bother to bring it in upteen times over the last 18 months to have every little noise checked out? I've had a lot of different cars in my life and the two others in my driveway each with over 130k miles on them are doing just fine, maintained equally as well as my Sante Fe and are in better shape and more reliable. I wish I never traded in my last vehicle for this one. What a mistake!

Basically, Irwin Hyundai has surely lost money on my car given the number of visits over the last 18 months. The service guys have actually been great, but they don't make the decisions or focus on the bottom line. And in the end, that's what it boils down to. My loyalty to brand is of no concern - they know they've lost me forever and surely don't care about word of mouth impact. There will be plenty other happy Hyundai car buyers. Many don't have any issues at all. What burns me is that the occasional "Friday" car is no big deal to Hyundai corporate - who I called to try and resolve this issue. I ended up with a condescending Supervisor who quoted me book and page of the manual like I was some 5 year old being scolded. I have never been so angry in my entire life. So much for standing behind the product. Warranty should say "We stand behind our product until it gets too expensive for us." Hyundai is too big to care. After all, no one can make everyone happy.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:24 AM   #5
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WOw
for a heads up, there should be easy evidence of wear and tear cause by neglect, i.e. piston wear, ring problems, lifter wear and cam shaft wear. if you have taken care of the vehicle, not saying either way, as to not get involved, there would be easy evidence of neglect with a simple visual check and possibly a compression test.

I am not a certified mechanic but have been able to come to these conclusions in another life.

I am sure some of our mechanic's here could advise you how to proceed to find this information out

Good luck on this seriously. I would even take it to another dealer, one that has a service manager willing to search out the problem before drawing conclusion.
One major question I have is where is the oil going if no leaks, and i am sur eyou would have seen blue smoke out of the tail pipe if you were buring it out or had that wonderful oil burn smell if there was a leak out of the engine compartment.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:11 AM   #6
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I had this disappearing oil problem with my first Toyota (1974). New oil is Clean, and therefore very hard to see..even on the dipstick. Leaking oil on or under the engine will be hard to SEE.

My '74 Toyota had a mechanical Fuel pump on the side of the engine which is driven by a lever which sticks inside the engine and gets pushed up and down..ie pumps Fuel, by the cam shaft. This engine was NOT an overhead cam engine..but rather..overhead valve.

The short story: A gasket in the (mechanical) Fuel pump had ruptured and ..as well as pumping fuel on one side of the diaphragm, was pumping OIL out the breather hole on the top of the fuel pump. The clean oil was blowing in the wind back under the car and was pretty difficult to see. When the car was in the garage..engine not running...no leak.

The Toyota dealer wanted to replace the oil pan gasket. He didn't want to look for anything else AND wouldn't guarantee that this would fix the problem because he was guessing.

I suspected the fuel pump and he laughed at me. I went home and removed the fuel pump and took it apart. Voila. I took the pump back to the dealer to show him the pump internals..and to buy a new pump. I thought the mechanic would be interested in LEARNING something. NOT so.

The New Fuel Pump fixed the disappearing oil problem. NB
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:12 AM   #7
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You have to face it, every business owner eventually finds a customer that they cannot satisfy. Without placing blame, that is where they see you now.

They already replaced your transmission, you've been "in upteen times over the last 18 months to have every little noise checked out", you have very high mileage and now your engine is worn out.

You are not their favorite customer, they already lost money on you, and you are already lost as a future customer. So they only really have two worries when they snub you, the lemon law and bad word of mouth. Obviously, your post starts the bad word of mouth.

This where the lemon law starts:

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/d...law/index.html
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:14 AM   #8
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54k and that many problems, I will never by one of those cars. I have several friends who have bought Hyundais and will never buy another. They said they are essentially throw away cars, but 54k with all those problems is ridiculous.

I would get on the phone to the corporate office of Hyundai, most large corporations have the ceo phone number in the book or on the internet, then follow up with a letter describing the problem and when you serviced the car. I would also go over the service manager's head and demand to speak to the owner of Irwin's with your complaints.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:19 AM   #9
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....... you have very high mileage and now your engine is worn out.

54,000 miles is not high mileage, that should be barely broken in, especially for what new cars cost now.

The lemon law advice is very good, I would bring that up with the owner of Irwin's and Hyundai, then follow through if they don't take care of you.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:22 AM   #10
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funny thing about work under a warrenty:
Dealerships get paid by the car manufac, or the warrenty company that the manufac uses. The dealership does not loose money, infact they have set rates written up for warrenty work.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:50 AM   #11
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Default Two sides to every story.

How can any of us make a judgement after only hearing one side of the story?
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:55 AM   #12
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Default Just A Thought

Fighting with the dealer will get you Nothing but a stonewall... and high blood pressure. You don't need the hassle. Find and fix the problem yourself or take it to another dealer or an independent shop. Forget the warranty, youve already discovered what it's worth. JMHO based on lifes experience. NB
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2717 View Post
funny thing about work under a warrenty:
Dealerships get paid by the car manufac, or the warrenty company that the manufac uses. The dealership does not loose money, infact they have set rates written up for warrenty work.
This is true but more often than not the warranty rate is much less than the hourly rate. Also consider when a dealership gets involved with an intermittent problem they can't "charge" the factory unless they can prove they fixed something, unless they have prior authorization from the manufacturer.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:03 PM   #14
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This is true but more often than not the warranty rate is much less than the hourly rate. Also consider when a dealership gets involved with an intermittent problem they can't "charge" the factory unless they can prove they fixed something, unless they have prior authorization from the manufacturer.
that is correct, but them getting paid from the warranty company is better than the customer walking away and them not getting the job.

there is a process they do have to follow. Again subject best to be not discussed until resolved one way or another to see how it is handled from the companies
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:18 PM   #15
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That's one of the problems with doing (or not doing) your own maintenance. Without believable documentation it's hard for the dealership to go to bat for you with the manufacturer if you have problems past the end of the warranty period. Another thought ... There is no way the dealership is going to be able to help a customer without knowing what the problem is.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:24 PM   #16
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some temp solutions:

research if there are others having this problem

pay some upfront money to have the problem/issue tracked down, with the understanding if it is covered under the warranty then that upfront money would be reimbursed to you
but would do it at another dealer
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:44 PM   #17
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Default Hyundai Warranty

Lets see now: What Error CODE in the Scanner would indicate an oil leak at the rate of one quart/55 miles... .................. NB

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/assurance/...-warranty.aspx

BTW: I have an Actron CP9180 AutoScanner and it's a pretty Nifty little gadjet. Don't think it catches "ongoing" oil leaks though. If you have a car problem, just plug it in and see for yourself what's wrong before you bring it in to the dealer.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:53 PM   #18
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I wonder if the oil filter gasket from the old filter didn't come off with the filter?
If there is a double seal it will leak like a son of a gun.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:17 PM   #19
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Default Just Had Another Thought (Serious)

The only place OIL would migrate to out of the crankcase, other than onto the ground from somewhere..would be IN TO the cooling system. Look in the radiator..AND the plastic radiator overflow bottle and see if there's any oil in there. The water will look Frothy/Milky if it has oil in it. NB
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:45 PM   #20
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Default just an observation

My 2 cents. I was looking for a new car and was walking around dealership on a Sunday (No Salesman to bug me) that also sold Hyundais and as I walked past the service department door there were several engine crates marked Hyundai. I thought to myself why are there all the engines in crates sitting here? No a good sign if you ask me.

54K on the clock it means the engine is just broken in not broken.

Good Luck!
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:17 PM   #21
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54,000 miles is not high mileage...
54K in 18 months is a lot of miles, way more than average, way more than the guy who designed the car planned for, way more than the warranty was expecting. So the dealer knows this owner will use the car and test the warranty. There is nothing wrong high mileage or with the owner using the car, I'm just guessing how the dealer sees it.

Dealers for high end makers tend to make money on warranty work, dealers for bargain cars tend to lose money on the work. I'm just guessing but if Irwin was making money on the car, they would not be complaining.

Businesses are in business to make money, when they don't then you're on your own. Remember nothing is free, someone will be buying a new engine, you, Irwin or Hyundai. You have to convince them that buying you a new engine is their cheapest solution.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:26 PM   #22
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Default Lemon Law

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54,000 miles is not high mileage, that should be barely broken in, especially for what new cars cost now.

The lemon law advice is very good, I would bring that up with the owner of Irwin's and Hyundai, then follow through if they don't take care of you.


A looong time ago, my budd had bought a Monte Carlo SS and had alot of problems with it and got no where with the dealership. He parked out front with a big sign with a large lemon on it and the dearships name and covered his car with real lemons. They finally came out after 3 days and made the situation right
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc View Post
54K in 18 months is a lot of miles, way more than average, way more than the guy who designed the car planned for, way more than the warranty was expecting. So the dealer knows this owner will use the car and test the warranty. There is nothing wrong high mileage or with the owner using the car, I'm just guessing how the dealer sees it.

Dealers for high end makers tend to make money on warranty work, dealers for bargain cars tend to lose money on the work. I'm just guessing but if Irwin was making money on the car, they would not be complaining.

Businesses are in business to make money, when they don't then you're on your own. Remember nothing is free, someone will be buying a new engine, you, Irwin or Hyundai. You have to convince them that buying you a new engine is their cheapest solution.
Sorry JRC, I guess we'll have to disagree about the high mileage, we used to have several company cars used by salesmen that would get at least 50k miles in a year, maintenance included oil changes, brakes and tires, we would run them about 4 years then get new ones. A new transmission and now a new engine is not a use problem but a manufacturing/design problem. A car doesn't care if you run up the miles in a year or 10 years, in fact some make the case where under use is worse for a machine than getting used regularly or even "heavily" used.

I also agree with the nothing is free comment, but the manufacturer gave, in fact boasts about a 10year/ 100,000 mile warranty that was probably built into the price, they should honor it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITD View Post
A new transmission and now a new engine is not a use problem but a manufacturing/design problem. A car doesn't care if you run up the miles in a year or 10 years, in fact some make the case where under use is worse for a machine than getting used regularly or even "heavily" used.

.
I Concur. However, we don't really know yet where the problem is. (Other than we lost a quart of oil in 55 miles.) I REALLY don't believe it's Possible to BURN that much oil in 55 miles.....SO..I consider THAT option OUT.

I also don't believe that Hyundai builds an engine that is THAT poorly designed. I suggest this might be a Dealer "Technician" problem. If the assigned technician is ...in over his head ??..........

(This happened to me in 1979 with my bran new Honda Accord. FIVE transmission removals later. I took it to Another dealer and it was fixed post haste.)

I think this problem is not complicated. Find out where the oil is going and FIX it. NB

EDIT: I just looked: I may be at my 5 posts per day limit...so no further advice will likely be forthcoming.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:00 PM   #25
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They want you to go in and spend $40 on an oil change at Irwin's. I do all my own work, and I'm under warranty, so I guess I'm screwed if I have engine trouble, I drive Toyotas, and they're bulletproof, so I don't expect any trouble with my engine. My last Toyota ran to 200,000 miles without trouble. Those engines can go down to a quart of oil left, and still run. My friend's Corolla had literally one quart left in it cause it had a bad oil pan leak, and it ran without a knock or anything. Next time go for a Toyota.
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:22 AM   #26
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If a valve seal is bad it can dump oil and not be visible.

If you don't see any leaks, you either have oil blowing by the pistons or going into the exhuast system via the valve train. Pretty much comes down to one of two things.

1. Take off your spark plugs and see how they look.
2. Remove intake to throttle body and see if you see oil.
3. See if you PCV valve is plugged.
4. Do you get puff of bluish color smoke when you start car?
5. Has car ever overheated?

And if you keep running car sucking down that much oil (suprised it's not smoking while running) then you are going to plug up your catalytic converters in short order. First thing your going to get is a check engine light than car running like doo doo once you reach that point. The cats do an amazing job of hiding smoke from exhaust (until they get plugged).

Death spiral of a motor.......
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:05 AM   #27
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They want you to go in and spend $40 on an oil change at Irwin's. I do all my own work, and I'm under warranty, so I guess I'm screwed if I have engine trouble, I drive Toyotas, and they're bulletproof, so I don't expect any trouble with my engine. My last Toyota ran to 200,000 miles without trouble. Those engines can go down to a quart of oil left, and still run. My friend's Corolla had literally one quart left in it cause it had a bad oil pan leak, and it ran without a knock or anything. Next time go for a Toyota.
I think the savings received from doing your own oil changes in this day and age are not worth the pay back. How do you dispose of the used oil? Do you consider the value of your time in the cost benefit analysis? And the big one what is the cost of voiding your warranty?
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:19 AM   #28
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I think the savings received from doing your own oil changes in this day and age are not worth the pay back. How do you dispose of the used oil? Do you consider the value of your time in the cost benefit analysis? And the big one what is the cost of voiding your warranty?
I usually bring my wifes car to the dealer because I can buy 4 oil changes for $60 and her car has a life time drivetrain warranty. I've done it once myself because I didn't have time to take it to the dealer. It's a 2 hour ordeal to drive to the dealer and wait for it to be done. Then they want to sell me new wipers or some kind of snake oil.

I do oil changes on my truck and 18 year old Camry myself. It takes maybe 10 minutes and the used oil is recycled at the dump for free.

If you are worried about the warranty, sometimes is doesn't pay to do your own car work. If your out of warranty, do it yourself!
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:23 PM   #29
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Default Prior Dodge dealers

I use to always buy my vehicles from Fitzgerald's and before that Piper's. They never question the shade tree mechanics. They just do the warrantee repairs.

When I can't do the maintenance, I would use the coupons they gave me as a buyer. They have been awesome.

Autoserve had sold me a Jeep that will not pass inspection. The last two inspections, they would reset the OBD and have me drive to Concord and back. They will slap a sticker on it. The reason is that the diagnosis is 'general emission failure'. It could be anything. They could find it right off and fix it for a few bucks, or it could take forever to find and cost thousands.

I can always find another dealer as I am not planning on coming back.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:43 PM   #30
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I've never been a dealer maintenance guy until this latest car. Bought it with 2K on it and decided to have the dealer do the oil changes while it was under warranty. It's now out of warranty but I continue to use them for oil changes. $40? You're being robbed unless that's synthetic you're using. My dealer, Foss in Exeter, charges $25.95 for an oil change. At that price, doing it myself makes absolutely no sense.

I like the idea about parking the car across the street with a big lemon on it. That occured to me as well.

As for the mileage, 54K is nothing. I don't understand where this supposed correlation between mileage and time comes from. The car was designed to run, not to run some pre-determined miles in an expected time frame. As long as all maintenance was done as scheduled per the mileage, the amount of time it took to rack up those miles is completely meaningless. If you're having motor issues with 54K in 6 months, you'd have those same issues with 54K in 2 years. In fact, since most of the wear and tear on an engine is at start-up, the case can be made that driving those 54K on long trips and racking up the miles actually does less damage internally than taking 2 years to do it which would mean lots of starts and short trips.

Good luck. I've gone up the corportate route twice over the years and both times got some satisfaction. If they're shutting you down already, you're fighting an uphill battle.
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:20 PM   #31
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Default Oil Changes Easy Way to Save Money

Not all oil changes are created equal. Anyone getting a $25 oil change better know what oil and filter is being used.

I can get Mobil 1 for a total of $26 at Wal-Mart plus Napa Gold Filters for 7-12 bucks depening one which vehicle.

My oil change is 15-20 minutes. While it's draining, I also break out a rag and degreaser and go a general wipe down that does wonders of keeping the undercarriage rust free. Your mechanic is not going to do this. Ever smell burning oil that was not cleaned up thoroughly that dripped onto you enginee and exhaust after it got changed? I don't

A synthetic oil change for my cars is usually $65 or higher.

Getting rid of oil is easy. Pour your oil into milk jugs and just drop of at any parts store (auto zone, VIP, Napa, etc) as they take it free of charge.

So I actually save time by not worrying about having to make appt, sitting in a waiting area, etc. Plus, do my own tire rotations which takes maybe 15 minutes on a car. That's a $25-50 savings right there.

On my 4 vehicles (plus boat and lawn equipment) this adds up over the course of the year and honestly I don't even have to think of the small amount of time it takes to do them.

I'm thankful I can do my own basic maintenance. Had a Honda Dealership who wanted to charge $79 to replace cabin air filter. Requires pulling two tabs in glove box and removing to screws to get filter out. Filter cost? $13 I'll keep the difference in my wallet all day long
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:43 PM   #32
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They want you to go in and spend $40 on an oil change at Irwin's. I do all my own work, and I'm under warranty, so I guess I'm screwed if I have engine trouble, I drive Toyotas, and they're bulletproof, so I don't expect any trouble with my engine. My last Toyota ran to 200,000 miles without trouble. Those engines can go down to a quart of oil left, and still run. My friend's Corolla had literally one quart left in it cause it had a bad oil pan leak, and it ran without a knock or anything. Next time go for a Toyota.
That's what my Brother-in-Law thought also, he has had 3 rav4's. The one he has now is 2009 and since last october has been using 1 quart of oil every 1500 miles, he has taken it to the dealer every 4 weeks and they are still saying that it is within toyota's operating standards. They have been doing the oil changes since new and still refuse to take any blame. 100,000 mile warrantee will be up in 3000 miles. This past wednesday they took the car in and did a complete evaluation and found that the motor, transmission, and both half axels in the front end need to be replaced at a cost of $10,000.00
They will find out Monday or Tuesday what they plan on doing. Could be Totaled! But Toyota have put them thru Hell for the last 5 months, what's the sense of offering a warrantee if you do not have intentions of honoring it.
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:40 PM   #33
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"Not all oil changes are created equal. Anyone getting a $25 oil change better know what oil and filter is being used."

Well, I should point out that the dealer is actually a few bucks higher but they keep sending me coupons. I get the tires rotated for free at Tire Warehouse who matched my Tirerack.com online price.

Hey, I did my own oil changes since I got my first car so I know you can save a couple bucks and if I was unhappy with what I was getting from the dealer, I'd probably go back to doing them myself. But they actually do many of those things you mentioned.

In fact, the last 4 oil changes have made me $200. Somehow I got into intellishop.com email and they have reimbursed me for the oil changes plus paid me for my time if I agree to answer a few questions about the experience. The last two changes were free plus $100 each.

Can't beat that.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:07 AM   #34
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A looong time ago, my budd had bought a Monte Carlo SS and had alot of problems with it and got no where with the dealership. He parked out front with a big sign with a large lemon on it and the dearships name and covered his car with real lemons. They finally came out after 3 days and made the situation right
This made me think of my sister. She did this years ago with a Chrysler Dealership. Can't quite think of the outcome, but what ever it was, I am sure the dealership was not happy with her car parked outside...stating she owned a Chrysler Lemon or with the fact that she drove around town with the sign posted on her car.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:51 AM   #35
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I would strongly suggest taking it to another dealership. I run a Hyundai service dept. and they stand behind the product far better than the fight I used to get from some domestic manufacturers. Oil doesn't evaporate,it is as stated before being burnt and the cat. is cleaning up the aftermath. This can be verified by hooking up to the OBD2 connector or a gas analyzer and monitor the readings.Is it common to see an engine assembly fail at 54K NO,does it happen yes.In my over 30 years of experience nothing surprises me but commonsense and good business practices dictate find the problem first then what the fix is.As long as you can provide 7-8 filter and appropriate oil purchases your 10/100 warranty should be in full effect.JMHO
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:15 AM   #36
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Default Find the problem and than fix it.

Well said. Tooo many folks rely on snake oils and duct tapes and hope it will go away.

I wish I can say the same about medical doctors. Prescribe megabucks prescriptions rather than find the problem and fix it................................
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:24 AM   #37
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Default I don't miss the auto business...

...not even for a second.
22 years of this crap was enough for me.
But just a thought, that I take away from early in this thread...and possibly a lesson.
I'm very sorry, but no, the dealer will not "take your word" for the fact that you did proper maintenance yourself. And you really can't blame them...mostly because the manufacturers (in this case, Hyundai) have specific guidelines for a dealer to make a warrenty claim, and get paid for parts/labor. One of the requirements is proper documentation, if the factory reps request it. And I'm quite certain, "Customer states they did oil and filter changes, and they are not lieing" is NOT one of the applicable choices, under the documentation heading.
In this case, we have an instant red flag...54K in 18 months. Yes, it should be fine (the high miles), and not create an issue...but NOONE can argue that 54K in 18 months is unusual, and therfore a red flag. Just the way it is.
So look at it from the manufacturer's perspective. The dealer can show no history of oil changes done at their place...none. Secondly, the customer can produce no receipts for oil changes done at repair facilities. None. And, at 54k, somewhere between 8/10 O and Fs should have been done...10 in 18 months...that's a lot. What in God's Holy name would they expect the customer to say..."Oh, Oil changes??? No, we never got around to that very much. Maybe 2 or 3, but that's it." Of course noone is going to say that...sorry, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THIS... Consumers lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie...and think the dealer does not know, and somehow believe it to be a victimless crime, thinking "Oh, the dealerships got plenty of money". Just the way it is...I'm not insulting anyone here...but we have all told companies what they needed to hear when making warrenty claims...whether it be on a washing machine, vacuum cleaner, dish washer, snow blower, lawn mower...whatever. We damage it, and then say "wow, I can't imagine how this happened...now shut up and give me a new one."
So, while I believe this poster indeed did their oil changes, the fact is, because somewhere aroung 10 where required at only 18 months, I can fully understand Hyundai wanting actual, real live documentation that they did occur. If indeed only 2 or 3 where done...yeah, you SHOULD have engine trouble. Any of us could cook an engine in 18 months by driving 54K, and not doing the needed work.
I've always said, go to dealership, spend a little extra and do your maintanence there, and if something comes up, they will be in your corner. Don't just use them for the "free" warrenty work...spend a little bit...it can work out for you. Believe me, in this case, they would love and engine job...it is good revenue. But Hyundai won't approve it. Don't blame the dealer.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:28 PM   #38
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I've always said, running a business would be easy if they didn't need those damn pesky customers....
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:09 PM   #39
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There is Nothing in my 400 page owners manual that says I can't change my own oil......And if I do, there is nothing that says I have to provide "Receipts" indicating I bought any oil or filters, or had it done at a dealer or at Jiffy Lube.

BTW: I keep a "Log Book" with dates and mileages for Anything that is done to the car, whether I do it myself or have it done by anyone in business. Just sayin. NB

PS: It really bothers me deeply, that so many people have such bad stories about their dealership experiences. It just ain't fair.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:30 PM   #40
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...not even for a second.
22 years of this crap was enough for me.
But just a thought, that I take away from early in this thread...and possibly a lesson.
I'm very sorry, but no, the dealer will not "take your word" for the fact that you did proper maintenance yourself. And you really can't blame them...mostly because the manufacturers (in this case, Hyundai) have specific guidelines for a dealer to make a warrenty claim, and get paid for parts/labor. One of the requirements is proper documentation, if the factory reps request it. And I'm quite certain, "Customer states they did oil and filter changes, and they are not lieing" is NOT one of the applicable choices, under the documentation heading.
In this case, we have an instant red flag...54K in 18 months. Yes, it should be fine (the high miles), and not create an issue...but NOONE can argue that 54K in 18 months is unusual, and therfore a red flag. Just the way it is.
So look at it from the manufacturer's perspective. The dealer can show no history of oil changes done at their place...none. Secondly, the customer can produce no receipts for oil changes done at repair facilities. None. And, at 54k, somewhere between 8/10 O and Fs should have been done...10 in 18 months...that's a lot. What in God's Holy name would they expect the customer to say..."Oh, Oil changes??? No, we never got around to that very much. Maybe 2 or 3, but that's it." Of course noone is going to say that...sorry, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THIS... Consumers lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie...and think the dealer does not know, and somehow believe it to be a victimless crime, thinking "Oh, the dealerships got plenty of money". Just the way it is...I'm not insulting anyone here...but we have all told companies what they needed to hear when making warrenty claims...whether it be on a washing machine, vacuum cleaner, dish washer, snow blower, lawn mower...whatever. We damage it, and then say "wow, I can't imagine how this happened...now shut up and give me a new one."
So, while I believe this poster indeed did their oil changes, the fact is, because somewhere aroung 10 where required at only 18 months, I can fully understand Hyundai wanting actual, real live documentation that they did occur. If indeed only 2 or 3 where done...yeah, you SHOULD have engine trouble. Any of us could cook an engine in 18 months by driving 54K, and not doing the needed work.
I've always said, go to dealership, spend a little extra and do your maintanence there, and if something comes up, they will be in your corner. Don't just use them for the "free" warrenty work...spend a little bit...it can work out for you. Believe me, in this case, they would love and engine job...it is good revenue. But Hyundai won't approve it. Don't blame the dealer.
Nowhere in the warranty does it require the service be do at the dealership or other shop. If person can show receipts, enough said.

Obviously you have your point of view but it also faults people from saving money for what are simple repairs. $49.95 for and air filter change but you suggest paying for a 5 minute item with a maybe $15 part so that the dealer will help you when there is warranty claim? This is why people HATE car dealerships.

And with long distance commuting, there are TONS of cars doing this amount of mileage. My neighbor drives into the heart of Boston 4 days per week. 180 miles or so round trip. Two former co-workers who drive from Portland to Newburyport, MA everyday..... And last I checked, Hyundai does not specify mileage per time restrictions.

What I see here is you are putting the burden on the customer. That's the crux of the issue. Having an attitude that customers lie, lie, lie speaks volumes.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:57 PM   #41
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I would not purchase any car manufactured in Korea, Mexico, or Europe.

Canada and USA only.

Korean cars have come a long way. JD Powers rates initial quality very high for Korean cars. But that rating is for initial quality - not long term quality. The Koreans don't have a very long history manufacturing cars. The first ones in the 1980's were old Japanses tooling/designs. Quality for many was poor. Yes, some are always lucky to get one to go on and on and on.

Mexico. Not for me. Volkswagens especially from Mexico.

European. Too complicated. Too expensive. Too much depreciation (in dollars). If you make (or have) the big bucks and can trade in on a regular basis then European cars may be OK.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:12 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by songkrai View Post
I would not purchase any car manufactured in Korea, Mexico, or Europe.

Canada and USA only.

Korean cars have come a long way. JD Powers rates initial quality very high for Korean cars. But that rating is for initial quality - not long term quality. The Koreans don't have a very long history manufacturing cars. The first ones in the 1980's were old Japanses tooling/designs. Quality for many was poor. Yes, some are always lucky to get one to go on and on and on.

Mexico. Not for me. Volkswagens especially from Mexico.

European. Too complicated. Too expensive. Too much depreciation (in dollars). If you make (or have) the big bucks and can trade in on a regular basis then European cars may be OK.
Some Hyundais are made in Alabama. I imagine the engineering is done in Korea though. What is it that makes the American Hyundais so much better?
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:17 AM   #43
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The reason for for the number of oil filters and oil are simple.It is a requirement in the owners manual as do many other manufacturers that you produce maint.records for LOF being done every 7500 miles. So it may sound like alot but they put it in black and white.
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:29 AM   #44
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The reason for for the number of oil filters and oil are simple.It is a requirement in the owners manual as do many other manufacturers that you produce maint.records for LOF being done every 7500 miles. So it may sound like alot but they put it in black and white.
I've NEVER heard of this, but I've never had a problem with any vehicle I've owned in my life. So that being said who reads the warranty until they need it. I looked and found a short thing about, should it become necessary you may be asked to produce receipts for service work. Sounds like from what the dealer said even if receipts were produced they still would have questioned weather the oil was used since CL said they questioned the filters being installed even though they were purchased.
I for one have always purchased oil by the case and as with my truck my filters, but I never save receipts. Cash & carry. But I also do not write off repairs, instead millage.
I find it odd that the dealer would take a quick look at the vehicle and right away say user error. CL stated they just took a look at the oil and said your fault. How can you tell by just looking at the vehicle/oil and not into the engine what caused the problem.
There are several things that can go wrong inside of todayís engines that can cause an oil to degrade in a very short period of time. Some have already mentioned a couple.
The local Hyundai dealer used to be Belknap Hyundai and now is owned by the Irwin Zone. I for one have had several complaints about the Irwin zone, as have others on this forum. As soon as my truck was out of warrantee it went to a diesel truck shop. They found and fixed several problems that Irwinís did not. As for dealer pricing, 4 ball joints cost me $550.00 while the Irwin Zone wanted $625.00 per side with alignment.
Sounds to me like big business doing what they do best; pushing the little guy around.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:45 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by lawn psycho View Post
Nowhere in the warranty does it require the service be do at the dealership or other shop. If person can show receipts, enough said.

Obviously you have your point of view but it also faults people from saving money for what are simple repairs. $49.95 for and air filter change but you suggest paying for a 5 minute item with a maybe $15 part so that the dealer will help you when there is warranty claim? This is why people HATE car dealerships.

And with long distance commuting, there are TONS of cars doing this amount of mileage. My neighbor drives into the heart of Boston 4 days per week. 180 miles or so round trip. Two former co-workers who drive from Portland to Newburyport, MA everyday..... And last I checked, Hyundai does not specify mileage per time restrictions.

What I see here is you are putting the burden on the customer. That's the crux of the issue. Having an attitude that customers lie, lie, lie speaks volumes.
In previous post this guy always seems to take this same approach. The dealer is always in the right the customer is always trying to screw the dealership.
That is probably the reason he isnít in that line of work as he stated. Some people just donít deal well with customers and give the business a bad name just by being there.
No give or take in his reply just black and white, the customer is wrong because they always lie and that is it.
I have found that any dealership or for that matter business, can sustain a great reputation when dealing with the minor every day problems. It is the business that goes the extra mile when unforeseen problems pop up that sets them apart from the norm. It sounds like Irwins and Hyundai are not that type of business. Given the volume of problems with this vehicle which included a transmission replacement, Hmmm, I would venture to say it might just be a lemon. How many vehicles require a new transmission then have engine problems on top of that all within this time frame?
From the original post, no attempt was made on the dealerships part to help out in any way but instead referred/shuffled the problem off to someone else, that being corporate Hyundai who immediately shut the customer down without even looking into weather it could be an equipment failure.
I personally have had problems with this dealership. The local contractor work force is always crossing paths on job sites and Iíve talked to many owners of ford work trucks who share my views on this dealership. But on the other side on the coin I meet many car owners who love them. But when I ask if they have ever had a problem their answer is always NO.
So the bottom line is, until you have a problem with your vehicle you really donít know how a dealership is going to respond.
There used to be a saying, sales department sells the first vehicle to a customer, service department is responsible for future sales.
I donít often hear that any more.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:12 AM   #46
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Default What Hyundai Corp had to say

Quote:
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54k and that many problems, I will never by one of those cars. I have several friends who have bought Hyundais and will never buy another. They said they are essentially throw away cars, but 54k with all those problems is ridiculous.

I would get on the phone to the corporate office of Hyundai, most large corporations have the ceo phone number in the book or on the internet, then follow up with a letter describing the problem and when you serviced the car. I would also go over the service manager's head and demand to speak to the owner of Irwin's with your complaints.
I didn't even post all the problems. I forgot about the leaky strut and seatbelt that didn't work. I think there was something else too that's not coming to mind right now.

Before my initial post, I had already had several calls with Hyundai's corporate Consumer Affairs group. It took a few calls before I would be permitted to speak to a supervisor. The first time I asked, I was told that wasn’t allowed. The second time I asked, (and you get a different person each time you call), I asked who the person reports to, that I’d like to speak to them. She wasn't helpful and said there are several supervisors. I told her to pick one and let me talk to them. The supervisor I got was condescending and outright insulting, the tone was unacceptable – he asked me if I read the manual, then proceeded to tell me which section and pages to refer to one-by-one, then asked me if I did all the interval service that was listed in the manual, quoting each one up to my current mileage – just to make his point, most having nothing to do with oil changes. Then he says the issue is being addressed at the regional office who would be making a decision, so they were closing my case. Perhaps his attitude stemmed from my recommendation that he have a conversation with the first employee I spoke to who I caught in a lie. And that’s a whole different matter altogether. The short story is that the dealership told Hyundai one thing, and Hyundai turned it around and told me the dealership said something else – and we had been in contact with the dealership all along. I called corp back and complained. I got an attitude for a response.

Hyundai corporate also told me that even if I pay to have the dealership look for the problem, and let’s say they find out that it was caused by something mechanical (ie; something other than “me”), that the repair would still not be covered under warranty because I had violated the warranty terms. That just made me sick to my stomach. So, no matter what I do short of producing video evidence, I have no warranty.

All I do have is an affidavit from the Amsoil dealer attesting to the product sold to me, but it won't do much good. After all, it doesn't have quantity or dates of purchase, or say when oil was poured in the engine, or that it ever was, or that old oil was drained out, or new filters put in....

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Old 02-28-2012, 10:17 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belmont Resident View Post
In previous post this guy always seems to take this same approach. The dealer is always in the right the customer is always trying to screw the dealership.
That is probably the reason he isnít in that line of work as he stated. Some people just donít deal well with customers and give the business a bad name just by being there.
No give or take in his reply just black and white, the customer is wrong because they always lie and that is it.
I have found that any dealership or for that matter business, can sustain a great reputation when dealing with the minor every day problems. It is the business that goes the extra mile when unforeseen problems pop up that sets them apart from the norm. It sounds like Irwins and Hyundai are not that type of business. Given the volume of problems with this vehicle which included a transmission replacement, Hmmm, I would venture to say it might just be a lemon. How many vehicles require a new transmission then have engine problems on top of that all within this time frame?
From the original post, no attempt was made on the dealerships part to help out in any way but instead referred/shuffled the problem off to someone else, that being corporate Hyundai who immediately shut the customer down without even looking into weather it could be an equipment failure.
I personally have had problems with this dealership. The local contractor work force is always crossing paths on job sites and Iíve talked to many owners of ford work trucks who share my views on this dealership. But on the other side on the coin I meet many car owners who love them. But when I ask if they have ever had a problem their answer is always NO.
So the bottom line is, until you have a problem with your vehicle you really donít know how a dealership is going to respond.
There used to be a saying, sales department sells the first vehicle to a customer, service department is responsible for future sales.
I donít often hear that any more.
I remember the thread well, BR...in fact, I saved your PM to me...
It is cut and pasted here, for your review. What a nice thing to write to somebody:
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Hey if I'd have known you were a masshole from the beginning I never would have wasted my time.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:45 AM   #48
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Ford and Mercury products are known rust buckets in the North Country. I had a Mercury Marquis that would not pass inspection when it was only two years old when the rear wheel wells were rotted out. There was a rust through warrantee and the company replaced the rear wheels wells. The workmanship was very shoddy and the welds were exposed to the elements. I complained and the dealer did not fix the problem. A letter to the company and the company extended my warrantee. The problem was never fixed and that was the last Mercury I bought.
Same problem with a Ford Bronco II. Can you imagine driving down the highway and the driver's seat fell through the floor? The Bronco was only four years old! No more Phords for me!
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:44 AM   #49
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I'm not a Ford guy but I don't think they've built Marquis in over 25 years!

Bronco II? I think the last one rolled off in the line in 1990?

Seriously?

I think all manufacturers have come a long way with rust prevention technology since then.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:33 PM   #50
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I remember the thread well, BR...in fact, I saved your PM to me...
It is cut and pasted here, for your review. What a nice thing to write to somebody:
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Hey if I'd have known you were a masshole from the beginning I never would have wasted my time.
Don't let the toll both hit you in the ass on the way home.
And nothing has changed, you are still that same arrogant person rambling on and I stand behind every word I sent. You are still an example of what some of us don't like about tourism. Better wording then before?
Yes I should not have dropped down to your level previously, but it is what it is.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:36 PM   #51
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I'm not a Ford guy but I don't think they've built Marquis in over 25 years!

Bronco II? I think the last one rolled off in the line in 1990?

Seriously?

I think all manufacturers have come a long way with rust prevention technology since then.
Ford still has a big problem with their trucks rusting out at the cab corners and wheel wells. Look at some of the previous threads and you will see many who have this problem. It is a design flaw, a good body repair guy will be glad to educate you on it.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:46 PM   #52
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Coastal Laker, I would pursue the lemon law and send a letter to channel 9 although Irwin is probably a big advertiser, it's worth a shot.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:46 PM   #53
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And nothing has changed, you are still that same arrogant person rambling on and I stand behind every word I sent. You are still an example of what some of us don't like about tourism. Better wording then before?
Yes I should not have dropped down to your level previously, but it is what it is.
Don't get me going about folks that move into NH from south of the border and start telling the NH natives what to do and changing our neighborhoods. Sorry I'm off topic
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:22 PM   #54
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Don't get me going about folks that move into NH from south of the border and start telling the NH natives what to do and changing our neighborhoods. Sorry I'm off topic
As a "Masshole" who has recently bought a home in Laconia these comments make me very curious. I pay real estate taxes, keep two boats in town and, I'd say, contribute my small bit to the local economy. Do I have less of a say than a native Laconian? At a recent meeting at City Hall the owner of a Main St. business made the comment to me "You know your downtown is dead when the biggest business is that antique store."

So wouldn't you want to attract people who see something in places like Laconia? My wife and I could have bought in other towns on the lake but Laconia is where we'd like to be and will probably find our way up there full time when our careers permit. Take the responses to CateP's threads about moving up, for example. They were almost entirely supportive of her move to Wolfeboro from New Jersey.

Apologies if I'm stirring the pot on this one.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #55
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So wouldn't you want to attract people who see something in places like Laconia?
I don't think that most rationale people are opposed to others moving to NH to embrace a "NH way of life" (and I say this as a 10 year resident of NH from MI, where I chose NH over MA for personal socio-political reasons).

What most people are opposed to is persons coming from out of state and then trying to make NH like the place they just left.

In other words, you'll be welcomed if you are looking to relocate, fit in and adapt. You will be unwelcome if you are looking to bring your politics, issues and related burdens from someplace-else here.


Just my 2cents.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #56
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The same logic can be seen when people move to the US from another country. They bring their customs, food and all aspects of the past country.
Then when they move to NH they bring their state and country conditions.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:07 PM   #57
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I don't think that most rationale people are opposed to others moving to NH to embrace a "NH way of life" (and I say this as a 10 year resident of NH from MI, where I chose NH over MA for personal socio-political reasons).

What most people are opposed to is persons coming from out of state and then trying to make NH like the place they just left.

In other words, you'll be welcomed if you are looking to relocate, fit in and adapt. You will be unwelcome if you are looking to bring your politics, issues and related burdens from someplace-else here.


Just my 2cents.
I was going to make a snarky comment about how your post makes NH sound similar to other places in the world where you're forced to "adapt" or be unwelcome because of your political views but that would be too easy. I'll just say that I hope this is just your "2 cents" and not what "most people" in NH think.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:31 PM   #58
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I think that anyone that calls a member of this forum privately in a message a Mass**le should reconsider his state of mind when he sends these types of messages.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:41 PM   #59
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I was going to make a snarky comment about how your post makes NH sound similar to other places in the world where you're forced to "adapt" or be unwelcome because of your political views but that would be too easy. I'll just say that I hope this is just your "2 cents" and not what "most people" in NH think.
Why would you move some place that has its own customs, ways of life, pace, etc. and expect those people to adapt to YOU?

Sorry, I guess it's just totally different viewpoints, but I wouldn't move some place with the expectation that everyone there wants to learn to be just like the place I came FROM.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:04 PM   #60
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Have you ever been to Little Cuba in Miami?
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:06 PM   #61
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Have you ever been to Little Cuba in Miami?
I have.



.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:44 PM   #62
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Is there a Hyundai dealer there or is this the wrong thread?
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:10 AM   #63
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I think that anyone that calls a member of this forum privately in a message a Mass**le should reconsider his state of mind when he sends these types of messages.
The message sent privately was just that. It wasnít/isnít my view on everyone coming up from out of state. I apologize to others who mistook his ignorance in posting a private reply with the full intention of stirring up the forum. There are a lot of wonderful people who relocate to this area all the time. On the other hand there are a lot of arrogant people who believe their point is the only point and tear down all others who disagree with them. In almost every response this person posts you can see this come out.
While I got frustrated with one of sa meridiths replies on a subject he just could not be proven wrong on even though there were facts to prove it he chose to start the name calling. Rather then post my personal feelings to him on the forum I sent them in a PM that he chose to post not me.
For some reason when the topic comes out about the auto industry some just because they have worked in it think that their opinion is the only one that counts and is never wrong.
Once again I apologize; I dropped to that level in frustration that was never meant to be posted on the forum which is why it was just that a Private Message.
Pineedles as to my state of mind, I believe it is ok. Frustration/anger brings out the worst, but I still don't care for the other poster, I will keep from posting negative replies towards the state the person comes from.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:07 AM   #64
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I understand. I have been in your shoes before.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:33 PM   #65
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I understand. I have been in your shoes before.
Ya you Connetahole!
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #66
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That's supposed to be Aya, not ya. Ver you born in Sweden?
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:33 PM   #67
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I think the savings received from doing your own oil changes in this day and age are not worth the pay back. How do you dispose of the used oil? Do you consider the value of your time in the cost benefit analysis? And the big one what is the cost of voiding your warranty?
I agree. I just had oil changed on my Chevrolet for $9.95 with tire rotation at Banks Chevrolet in Concord. I am on email list and received a coupon. I do not make a special trip for this as the gas used would add to cost. I combine errands.

For my other car I use a good local mechanic/independent repair shop. I do pay about $25.00 - $30.00. If something does go wrong with my older car I have a good mechanic that knows me.

I never use any quick lube places anymore. Sadly, some of the youngsters at some of those shops don't know which way to screw in the oil filter. And they are always trying to sell something else needed or not.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:41 PM   #68
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That's supposed to be Aya, not ya. Ver you born in Sweden?
I have more than a dose of Swede in me, ya have a problem with Swede's do ya!
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:40 PM   #69
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I have more than a dose of Swede in me, ya have a problem with Swede's do ya!
I have no problem with Swedes. But I think we need to call ICE about a swede who says ya instead of Aya in Manchester that's tooling around in a Segway.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:42 PM   #70
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Why would you move some place that has its own customs, ways of life, pace, etc. and expect those people to adapt to YOU?

Sorry, I guess it's just totally different viewpoints, but I wouldn't move some place with the expectation that everyone there wants to learn to be just like the place I came FROM.
I'm just saying that you may not want to generalize about people from MA. For me it's the ways, pace, etc. that attract me to NH. I've lived in the same town since I was born. I never, ever thought I'd want to leave. But the more time I spend around Laconia, the more friends we make and the more I see the differences between NH and MA the more I lean towards NH rather than MA. For example my wife still makes fun of me because I love the fact that in NH you can set the little lever on the gas pump handle. In the People's Republic of MA they've all been removed and your fingers freeze solid in winter time because you have to keep squeezing the handle. It's the little things...

I hope we're cool.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:10 AM   #71
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I'm just saying that you may not want to generalize about people from MA. For me it's the ways, pace, etc. that attract me to NH. I've lived in the same town since I was born. I never, ever thought I'd want to leave. But the more time I spend around Laconia, the more friends we make and the more I see the differences between NH and MA the more I lean towards NH rather than MA. For example my wife still makes fun of me because I love the fact that in NH you can set the little lever on the gas pump handle. In the People's Republic of MA they've all been removed and your fingers freeze solid in winter time because you have to keep squeezing the handle. It's the little things...

I hope we're cool.
Take your gas cap and insert between lever and handle. Lever still works as it should and stops when back pressure is felt. It even works with gas caps that are on a cord.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #72
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Take your gas cap and insert between lever and handle. Lever still works as it should and stops when back pressure is felt. It even works with gas caps that are on a cord.
Here in Joisy we are to stupid to pump our own gas.

Now what about the Hyundai trouble?
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:20 PM   #73
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How quickly the thread gets pulled astray
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:57 AM   #74
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That's supposed to be Aya, not ya. Ver you born in Sweden?
Nein.Sprechen sie deutsch?
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:03 PM   #75
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Last night I threw out a bowl of popcorn, cause the thread died, should I pop another ?

Yes, I share the same roots as sickie, so .....
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:40 AM   #76
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And nothing has changed, you are still that same arrogant person rambling on and I stand behind every word I sent. You are still an example of what some of us don't like about tourism. Better wording then before?
Yes I should not have dropped down to your level previously, but it is what it is.
The funny thing is, I live and pay my property taxes in Southern NH, and have a seasonal place in Meredith...so don't know where the comment came from in the 1st place.
As I recall, I asked a reasonable, and appropriate question...and you simply resorted to hateful PMs.
You expressed concern about FMC warranty...complaining about not getting AWAs (after warranty adjustments).
So I asked, in light of the fact that Ford offers 3/36000 bumper to bumper, 5/60000 powertrain (100K Dielsel), and 5 yr/unlimited on rust thru, what more you wanted/expected. It was a fair question, I believe.
No idea where the Mass thing, and toll booth came from...no idea at all.
It was hateful...I posted it because I belived it showed insight into your true feelings.
I am neither arrogant, or mean spirted, although I tend to get sucked into debates that get emotional.
I have become friends with, and come to the aid of, several people on this forum, who would certainly tell you I am neither of those things. I believe your PM was just plain wrong.
Lastly, I believe working 22 years in an industry, and being recognized by the manufacturer as a top performer, and invited to participate in many focus groups concerning customer relations, does indeed qualify me to comment on issues relating to the auto industry.
Disagree if you wish...save the hateful PMs for someone else.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:40 AM   #77
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The funny thing is, I live and pay my property taxes in Southern NH, and have a seasonal place in Meredith...so don't know where the comment came from in the 1st place.
As I recall, I asked a reasonable, and appropriate question...and you simply resorted to hateful PMs.
You expressed concern about FMC warranty...complaining about not getting AWAs (after warranty adjustments).
So I asked, in light of the fact that Ford offers 3/36000 bumper to bumper, 5/60000 powertrain (100K Dielsel), and 5 yr/unlimited on rust thru, what more you wanted/expected. It was a fair question, I believe.
No idea where the Mass thing, and toll booth came from...no idea at all.
It was hateful...I posted it because I belived it showed insight into your true feelings.
I am neither arrogant, or mean spirted, although I tend to get sucked into debates that get emotional.
I have become friends with, and come to the aid of, several people on this forum, who would certainly tell you I am neither of those things. I believe your PM was just plain wrong.
Lastly, I believe working 22 years in an industry, and being recognized by the manufacturer as a top performer, and invited to participate in many focus groups concerning customer relations, does indeed qualify me to comment on issues relating to the auto industry.
Disagree if you wish...save the hateful PMs for someone else.
Go back and read as I just did. What started the whole thing was the, "Hey clown" comment. I was just posting my dissatisfaction with ford trucks and the fact that there are many documented rust issues with ford trucks, one being cab corner and rear wheel well rust issues. You had a problem with my comments on this. Even ford body guys will tell you the cab corner and wheel well design is flawed. Both areas are designed to allow sediment to collect, hold water and cause rot. Many follow up posts in another thread have been added by others stating just what I've been saying.
Most car owners tend to turn their vehicles over every 4-6 years. Issues like those mentioned in the thread in question don't surface because of this.
You were defending ford, but you were also pretty much saying that those of us who were seeing these problems were full of it.
I never said ford should be responsible after X amount of time I was just stating they do have design issues that are contributing to rust out problems. My truck was rusted out at 6 years, are you saying that is to be expected? At $50,000.00 I would hope not.
I currently have rust through on both cab corners, all 4 doors, and both wheel wells. In this day & age I would have thought that they would have taken steps to protect against this.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:11 AM   #78
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]
All I do have is an affidavit from the Amsoil dealer attesting to the product sold to me, but it won't do much good. After all, it doesn't have quantity or dates of purchase, or say when oil was poured in the engine, or that it ever was, or that old oil was drained out, or new filters put in....
I'm curious about why you used Amsoil. The only reason I run synthetic oil in all my machines is so that I can change oil less often. I routinely run 10,000 miles or more in my Toyota Matrix and 6,000 miles or more in my Kawasaki ZX9R, between changes, with Mobil 1. I realize this is outside of the recommended change interval for both, but they both have a lot of miles have been out of warranty for years. Other than superior cold weather flow, and buttery shifting in my motorcycle (the engine and transmission share the same oil) I can't think any other reasons, except longer change intervals, to use synthetics, unless they are required for the engine.

If you used Amsoil for extended change intervals, I doubt Hyundai would care what brand oil you used and would deny warranty service.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:41 AM   #79
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I have good luck with synthetic oils. I try to keep my vehicles at least 10 years and longer. I have a 2001 Cherokee and a '98 Dodge Dakota. Both running strong with no power train failures. When I change the transmission and gear oils to synthetic, I notice better gas mileage. The transmission shift a bit more dramatic but I got use to it. I'm all for extended oil and filter change.

As for truck manufacturer, I've been involved in fleet purchase and maintenance for the construction industry since the '70's. We had all kinds of trucks. Brands are only worth what the dealers make of it. As I said before the GMC dealer and the Dodge dealer were the only ones that back their products. As far as maintenance costs, Ford is last on the list due to rust and electrical problems. GMC, Chevy and Toyotas are in the middle and Dodge has the best maintenance records. Mostly because the Dodge dealer gives us a lot of maintenance perks.
Unfortunately the dealers are in the Concord area, south.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:25 AM   #80
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Go back and read as I just did. What started the whole thing was the, "Hey clown" comment. I was just posting my dissatisfaction with ford trucks and the fact that there are many documented rust issues with ford trucks, one being cab corner and rear wheel well rust issues. You had a problem with my comments on this. Even ford body guys will tell you the cab corner and wheel well design is flawed. Both areas are designed to allow sediment to collect, hold water and cause rot. Many follow up posts in another thread have been added by others stating just what I've been saying.
Most car owners tend to turn their vehicles over every 4-6 years. Issues like those mentioned in the thread in question don't surface because of this.
You were defending ford, but you were also pretty much saying that those of us who were seeing these problems were full of it.
I never said ford should be responsible after X amount of time I was just stating they do have design issues that are contributing to rust out problems. My truck was rusted out at 6 years, are you saying that is to be expected? At $50,000.00 I would hope not.
I currently have rust through on both cab corners, all 4 doors, and both wheel wells. In this day & age I would have thought that they would have taken steps to protect against this.
I agree with everything you write, and that you may have indeed been eligible for some "good will" Ford finacial support. In fact, it would be common for someone that can document/demonstrate strong loyallty to the brand...repeat buyer, strong maintance record, etc...certainly not a 1 time F Series buyer, who has purchased one truck in 12/13/14 years, and never returned for any work. Anyway...yeah, maybe I take discussions to inappropriate levels...it's a character flaw. It is however tough, to be in a field, where everyone and their brother is an expert. Leaky pipes? Call a plumber...TV fuzzy? Call the cable guy...need a deck built? Call a carpenter...chimney is disrepair? Call a mason......................Question about a car purchase or repair? ASK ANYONE, EVERYONE'S AN EXPERT! I guess it is a pet peeve of mine. If I commented on something in your line of work, that you knew was just an exception, or just plain wrong, you'd call me on it, and cite your expertise as the source...it would be a fair thing to do.
on and on it goes...
I apologize for ruffling feathers...perhaps some opinions are better kept to myself. Really.
But, I really don't understand the MASS comments. I don't live in MASS, but have no issues with people who do. It really seemed like a terrible stereotype..almost akin to a racist comment. Very offensive, in my book.
That being said...
I hope the woman who started this thread has since been able to resolve her issues with Hyundai...perhaps entered in to some type of compromise, or even received a new engine at no charge. Really, I do. Car trouble sucks, but we all need them.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:50 PM   #81
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I think the savings received from doing your own oil changes in this day and age are not worth the pay back. How do you dispose of the used oil? Do you consider the value of your time in the cost benefit analysis? And the big one what is the cost of voiding your warranty?
any place you buy oil from that charges you an environmental fee has to take it. I know NAPA does, I buy all my oil there. Otherwise, I take it to Belknap Tire on Union Avenue, they take it, as long as there's no coolant or water in it. They have a waste oil furnace there.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:17 PM   #82
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Default Electrical problems

I heard many folks complain of electrical problems with their vehicle. Here is a strange one.

My daughter's father-in-law's Chevy Silverado has flex-fuel capability. He once was able to use a tank of E85 purchased in Mass. He absolutely hated the performance and returned to regular gas. Since then the check engine light been on, after several trips to the dealer, the dealer can't understand what happened. Since it is a Mass registered truck, I have no idea how he gets the vehicle inspected.

A couple of weeks ago, he asked me to detail his truck. I notice the driver's side seat belt warning wiring was detached and I reattched it. Over the weekend he called me up and ask me what did I do? He wasn't upset that the seat belt chime went on, the check engine light is now off!

I don't know how the seat belt warning chime would effect the OB device unless the manufacterer got some wires crossed.

Any comments?
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:49 AM   #83
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Don't know about you all, but I think this post has gotten way out of hand. I'm sorry the owner of the car had issues, but not sure it's fair to slam the dealer over the internet... We don't know both sides of the story.

Don't think personal attacks are necessary either.

And, no, I don't have to read these posts if they bother me but it bugs me that people can write anonymous slurs that hurt others.

I was raised with the rule "If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all." Especially not on the internet.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:01 AM   #84
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Default Irwin

I tottaly agree

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Old 03-28-2012, 06:10 AM   #85
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Well speaking about cars and dealers.....A few months ago I brought the wifes CRV in for an oil change and noticed for a week or so after that it was leaving little drops of oil where ever she parked in the driveway. I brought it back (to the Honda dealer who changed it) and the service guy told me their "lead tech" checked it out and it just wasn't all wiped clean underneath after the change. Really??? it leaked for a straight week because it wasn't wiped clean with a rag??? I didn't bother going there and I just left. Sometimes they think people are stupid.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:38 AM   #86
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Default dealerships

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Well speaking about cars and dealers.....A few months ago I brought the wifes CRV in for an oil change and noticed for a week or so after that it was leaving little drops of oil where ever she parked in the driveway. I brought it back (to the Honda dealer who changed it) and the service guy told me their "lead tech" checked it out and it just wasn't all wiped clean underneath after the change. Really??? it leaked for a straight week because it wasn't wiped clean with a rag??? I didn't bother going there and I just left. Sometimes they think people are stupid.
The one really good thing all dealerships are good at is lying. From the salesman to the service dept they will say whatever they need too, to cover their ass or make a sale.
Point in hand, my wife talked to a salesman at Subaru of Manchester about a new Impreza. She was told they are such a hot item that there are none in the NE area.
So being the savy computer person she is, she googles dealerships starting at 50 mile radius then 100 miles. Low and behold there were a lot of them at other dealerships within the NE area, but not in Manchester.
I sent them an e-mail asking about this and got a generic reply of we have not seen you in over 2 weeks, our inventory is changing all the time, please visit us again.
This was the day after she visited them. It goes to show just how on top of their game they really are.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:17 PM   #87
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Default Really???

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The one really good thing all dealerships are good at is lying. From the salesman to the service dept they will say whatever they need too, to cover their ass or make a sale.
Point in hand, my wife talked to a salesman at Subaru of Manchester about a new Impreza. She was told they are such a hot item that there are none in the NE area.
So being the savy computer person she is, she googles dealerships starting at 50 mile radius then 100 miles. Low and behold there were a lot of them at other dealerships within the NE area, but not in Manchester.
I sent them an e-mail asking about this and got a generic reply of we have not seen you in over 2 weeks, our inventory is changing all the time, please visit us again.
This was the day after she visited them. It goes to show just how on top of their game they really are.
"The one really good thing all dealerships are good at is lying."

Lying is a "really good thing"? I disagree. I think lying is wrong, and has no place in retail. I don't believe lying is a "really good thing".
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:48 PM   #88
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Default used car dealers the worst

Like I always say, don't ever believe a car salesman, a politician or a lawyer. They all make their money through sayings of ???
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:20 PM   #89
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The one really good thing all dealerships are good at is lying. .
I think what BR was suggesting is that the thing that dealerships have in their favor, (to make money), is the opportunity to LYE. The can do it at will.. and the average consumer has no clew IF what the dealer is saying is true or not. The consumer is a Fish in the sea. NB
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:51 AM   #90
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Default agree

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I think what BR was suggesting is that the thing that dealerships have in their favor, (to make money), is the opportunity to LYE. The can do it at will.. and the average consumer has no clew IF what the dealer is saying is true or not. The consumer is a Fish in the sea. NB
Lying is never a good thing yet dealerships have become very proficient at doing it and making it seems like it is all just in a days work.
I believe that Coastal Laker is seeing this first hand in her dealings with Irwins and Hyundai.
I did a little research and found that as soon as there is a dispute the Dealer wants nothing to do with the customer and refers them to the car/truck manufacturer stating it is no longer our problem. So the customer is left dealing with a person on the other side of a phone call and all personal contact has dissolved.
That is what they donít tell you when you buy a vehicle.

NB one time my wife brought a vehicle into the dealer for service and told them that she thought the headlights were out of adjustment. At pickup she was told they took care of the problem. A month later I returned and complained about the headlights not being adjusted properly. At pickup I was told yes they were way out of adjustment and that they had in fact adjusted them them. They were in fact much better. So she was just brushed off and lied to by the service dept.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:25 AM   #91
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Default Sales vs Service Depts.

I don't find the sales dept lying to buyers as much now as they do in the past. Salesmen knows that most buyers are armed to the teeth with information about the car they want to buy because of the wealth of information on the internet as well as Experian, CSS and Carfax. I hate to be the guy that walks into a dealership ill-prepared.

I also like the fact when you are just looking, you are free to look around the lot without a vulture on your back. That was my biggest peeve decades ago.

What I do notice is service depts treating us the same as as they always do. We are a bunch of dumb a$$. If I find a service manager that wants to treat me like a human being, believe me, I stick to him like Velcro. Unfortunately Jim bounce around dealerships partly because management thinks he is not profitable? I follow him from one town to another and from one car make to another. he is worth it. Yet car dealers think he is a pain. Right now he is at the Dodge dealership in Nashua. =(
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:00 PM   #92
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Default Update

I haven't been on the forum for a while and just caught up on the posts. WOW you folks had some fun getting off topic a few times! Anyway, once engaging with legal counsel it is typically inappropriate to share details as it may compromise the legal process - especially given that "they" are reading these posts.

So, sorry that's all I have to offer for an update.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:30 AM   #93
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I haven't been on the forum for a while and just caught up on the posts. WOW you folks had some fun getting off topic a few times! Anyway, once engaging with legal counsel it is typically inappropriate to share details as it may compromise the legal process - especially given that "they" are reading these posts.

So, sorry that's all I have to offer for an update.
If you are truly going the legal route, my advice is pay for the repair (use an independant shop), and then sue. Unlike other cases make sure you understand NH law. You can likely do this in small claims as well which means no lawyer needed and you have clearly defined damages. You just need to make sure you follow the process as spelled out in the warranty.

Also be aware that the dealers can all see warranty and repair notes so if you go to another dealer they may not touch it. And if you say the word "lawyer" as a threat to them, they are robot trained to say ok, "I can't work on your car then".

Not to discourage you but a case like this with legal fees is probably going to cost you almost as much to get it repaired. My guess is you can have an independant shop get a used motor and swap it in for $2500 or less. An attorney (unless you have a family one doing pro bono) is going to cost at least half of that I suspect and you still won't have a repaired vehicle.

I'd fix it to be "whole" first, then take my chances in small claims. Gets you best resolution and most pain for them.
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