Rights
What are my rights when a neighbor ties a boat up to my
dock without permission ? Bill |
Perhaps you need to post a Private Dock/No Trespassing /Posted sign to let him know he should not use your dock.
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Would you expect to have to post a sign at your dock.
Bill |
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Maybe it was "too long a day" on the lake and he pulled into the wrong dock:D
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What are my rights ? In my mind he is trespassing. |
Unfortunately, disrespect towards others is becoming a common occurrence. I suppose you could have untied the boat and send it off adrift. Opps...;)
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Unfortunately, disrespect towards others is becoming a common occurrence.
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WHAT????? They have no right docking at YOUR dock.
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Marine Patrol
Contact Marine Patrol. If your dock is owned or leased by you, he is trespassing.
How does someone launch a boat that will be on the lake and not have already secured docking for the boat?:eek: Dave |
Parking meters. Might as well make some money at it.
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If He Has One...
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Tied up overnight. Neighbor doesn't have a dock. Just went over and reminded him that he said it would be gone in the morning. It is now 8:30 am.
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Desperate Boater?
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:) |
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I don’t think you can legally untie it but, if it isn’t gone I’d call both the MP & the local police. On the other hand, if his tying up isn’t interfering with your use you could offer to rent him space. Based on his understanding of lack of availability it might be lucrative.
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Rights
As wrong as it sounds, just remember, you ARE living next to him and in the big, big picture, you probably want to get along. Rather than start with a full salvo of retribution, maybe a calm conversation is in order. Not knowing any more than you posted, it is hard to offer a solution, but I would try to keep some sort of cordial relationship in place.
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State statute says you cannot maliciously cast a boat adrift. Seems to me that if you cast this boat adrift (since it’s violating private property) then this would not be malicious. If it was on my dock they would never see it again....
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Thanks for presenting a more reasonable approach. |
We have had issues with his parents who actually own the property nextdoor. We own the water front. Went to court and established a court order which denies their right to tie up to our dock. Property has not been used in years. The son came up yesterday with numerous friends and 2 boats. They came in late last evening. They tied 1 boat to my dock. Trying to be hospitable I allowed them to keep the boat overnight but it needed to be removed in the morning. 8:00 am arrived and no activity next door. Took pictures then woke up my neighbor and reminded him of our conversation. He said he would move boat soon. Waited an hour and went back over and said the boat needs to be moved immediately. He has finally moved the boat.
I have given him a copy of the court order. Bill |
It seems you have done all you could to peacefully resolve the situation.
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An old thread on this subject
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A boat cast adrift is clearly a hazard to navigation. If you untied it you would be responsible. If someone was injured you could be prosecuted.
A boat adrift could cause damage to another boat or dock, possibly yours. Hard to believe people would recommend setting it adrift, totally irresponsible! |
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People, especially the “me generation” which this sounds like it was, push their limits because they usually face no consequences. |
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The "Me" Generation?
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The "Me" Generation is most closely tied to the Baby Boomers, less so to the Millenials. Assuming you meant the Millenials.... In any event, I wouldn't tie this to a generation, but rather to someone who feels entitled, shows a lack of judgment, is willing to openly trespass on their neighbor. We can find that type of person in any generation. We have been discussing "rights", which can become litigious. Might also want to approach this asking what's "fair." The two are often at odds with each other, but, I think, it forces a more considered - not necessarily easier - approach. |
There should be no delay in calling the authorities after the first refusal to remove the boat from your dock. You showed weakness and they took advantage of it.
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Bill |
Tell 'em next time the entire forum will park their boats at his place. Oh, and we'll have our cars shipped over. They'll go in the backyard.
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Renting
For those who suggested "renting" :eek::eek::eek:, if you think the abuse of your rights is bad now, wait until you "rent" to someone. Their sense of entitlement to abuse your property will soar. You want to engage in a business transaction with people who start out by disrespecting your property rights? You will wake up to six boats of his friends tied up to your dock and garbage strewn all over the shore. After all they are renting it, right?
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WaterCamper..... Your dock your rules! It was beyond gracious of you to let them tie up overnight. You at least made an attempt to be a a good neighbor to an obviously crappy one! Cheers!
Next time (if there is a next time) call the MP and let them resolve the situation.... Woodsy |
News to Me...
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Only time I can imagine that is in an association where it's part of the bylaws. |
Post a sign on your dock; "One 25 foot docking space for rent for $100 per hour". Chances are real good they won't bite, but if they do you have a nice profitable reward.......
They also will recognize the legal financial penalties if they do use your space. |
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I think the best thing the OP has is that court order, present that to any police officer, and they would have a hard time telling the court why they wouldn't enforce it. |
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You have a court order.... Hospitality did not work... Your Right is to contact the courts and let them know the neighbor is in violation. I get what you are trying to do (keep the peace), but from what you are writing here, Enough already is what I would do. |
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The issue here is respect and a violation of boundaries. When I wrote my original post, I did not know that there was a history between the OP and the neighbor. Had I known that there was already a court order in place, I most definitely would have untied his boat. The OP is dealing with a bully, and as my mother taught me at a young age, you punch a bully in the nose. He doesn't respect the OP nor any of his rights. The neighbor (and his son) aren't interested in discussing the issue. I realize the boat may cause damage if untied, but the risk is probably pretty low and one that I would be willing to take. It may seem irresponsible to some, but I am not going to let anyone violate my personal property and space. As someone noted above, bullies take advantage of people trying to be nice and act reasonable. With this neighbor, the next thing you know he's on your property and treating it as his own. That said, no one enjoys confrontation, but sometimes a stand needs to be made. I am sorry the OP had to deal with this. To go through the effort of obtaining a court order shows what he's been through. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions. |
Why wouldn't the criminal trespass laws apply if the dock and the land to which it is attached were marked with private property/no trespassing/posted signs?
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Maybe your mother forgot to explain that actions have consequences. |
Can we get Marine Patrol to weight in on this issue, to see what they are inclined to do for the OP?
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Regarding Loon's post, criminal trespassing is different than trespassing. The neighbor did not commit a crime. I am fairly confident that the police would not want to be involved.
Regarding Tilton's post, I think the risk would be very low, and if after speaking to the person and asking/demanding that the boat be removed, absent a physical altercation, what would you suggest? Hiring an attorney, going to court, obtaining a court order, and having that court order ignored or laughed at? I wouldn't have the time or the patience. Maybe a physical altercation is the only alternative, but one that should be avoided. Also, although not stated, in my scenario, the neighbor would be informed that his boat was no longer on the dock so I doubt the family of five would be in any danger. I would hope that the neighbor would care enough to retrieve it. |
If the property had been posted, wouldn't trespassing be a crime? Posting might provide a remedy for any future trespassing.
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You set a boat adrift because you are entitled...... Then this..... https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=23775 or this https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=24587 WTH Quote:
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Untie the boat. Walk it out about 30 feet. Drop its anchor.
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You must have a friend or know someone who has an extra boat they are not using for a week. Just ask them if they mind have it docked on your dock. Hence, no space for the rude next door neighbor. Problem Solved ! Yw..
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This is an interesting topic and a slippery slope.
Untying the boat and releasing or anchoring it is almost certainly criminal. The neighbor docking on another deck is something that should probably be litigated in state court. The lake, starting at the high water mark is state property and as a result, property ownership claims are goin to be tough to argue... If the neighbor were to come and go by way of water, without actually trespassing on the land the dock is adjacent to, the case would be very interesting. I hope this makes it to court, it could change a lot for the shore of lake winnipesaukee. We were in the boat last night and I was thinking about all of the trampolines and rafts on the lake without permit.... does a property owner have the right to ban a passerby from using them if accessed by water? |
Are you being serious Patiently?????
While we are at it, why doesn't Water Camper feel free to take his neighbors' boat for a ride any time he wants. |
Another option.....
Post your dock, No Trespassing/Docking - Violators will be towed.
They dock, you have them towed! No different than parking in your driveway! Woodsy |
This whole thread makes me appreciate my neighbors! They are always there to lend a helping hand (including dock space as needed) as do I.
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an older thread on this subject
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ighlight=towed One of my suggestions, for a sign. To the owner of ________________________________ They say the boat you should not rock but you need permission before you dock. Here you stand broken hearted 'cause your boat has pre-departed. To Glendale MPHQ you must go to pay the impound fees you now owe. |
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For the record, if it was my neighbor, of course I would let him use the slip in case of emergency or a last minute need. I get along great with my neighbors because I respect their rights and the respect mine. This is not the case in this thread. The OP HAD TO GO TO COURT TO ENFORCE HIS RIGHTS! Am I the only one that finds this completely unacceptable?! I would not give an inch to that neighbor. His behavior changes everything. |
Dock space
We share dock space with our island neighbors ALL THE TIME! It is done with mutual courtesy, respect and most importantly...permission.
If I arrived to the island one day and an unknown boat was tied up at my dock I'd be pretty pi$$ed, however, if a note was left with explanation, name & phone #, or some indication that there may have been an emergency, I'd be ok with it for a day or so as long I can communicate with the owner. Communication is key. |
Kamper, thank you for the thread. I love the idea of throwing bread and sardines on his boat to attract birds! I think you have solved the problem. ;-)
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Getting back to the initial question, I don't see why leaving your boat tied to a private dock you don't own would be viewed any differently than leaving your car parked in a private driveway you don't own. You shouldn't be surprised if it gets towed. Yes the dock is in public waters but the end of my driveway is in the road right of way and I'm pretty certain that doesn't mean someone can park in the end of my driveway and block it off. Does anyone know what the legal ramifications would be, if any, if one were to have that boat towed away? Where is Skip to weigh in on this issue?
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You don't need a court order to tow a boat anymore than they need a court order to tow a parked car.... They tow in the Weirs all the time when people park in private spots. Gulbicki's Towing gets all the Gringo tows.
The issue is that the towboat companies probably do not have a storage spot for a towed boat... Woodsy |
Seems like moving the boat a short distance of 25-yards and dropping anchor, or tying it to a big cinder block, underwater, could both remove it, and keep it safe.
What would Judge Judy say about that? |
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Chill
IMHO, this thread exemplifies what is wrong in our society today.
Someone comes late to the party and uses a dock that they don’t have a “right” to use. Then they are, maybe, a bit slow or lazy at moving the boat away. Immediately the discussion goes to “MY rights” and then to most every suggestion short of blowing the boat out of the water. My guess is that could be coming soon. Sounds like a great neighborhood! There appears to be some sort of history with a prior owner/generation, but I suspect whoever left the boat at the dock was simply, at best, moving slow or just on a different schedule than others. Maybe, just work it out without the dramatics! |
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Please, their schedule has nothing to do with trespassing on someones property! Lucky it wasn't mine I would have had it towed as soon as I didn't see a note explaining why it was there. And to answer your statement that as a dock owner you have no right to be upset that someone dumped a boat where it shouldn't be docked I should wait. SORRY YOU ARE 100% WRONG!
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Just goes to show how this nation has devolved... I'm pretty sure it won't end well in the near future.
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Thank You! |
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What is “wrong in our society” is exemplified in...wait for it....YOUR OWN POST. You portray exactly, the kind of attitude that is taking this country down. Chill my ass... |
Ah. Success
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OP: It would seem that you do indeed have a viable remedy.
Given that you have a court order prohibiting them from using your dock, your remedy is to file an action for contempt of court (or whatever the equivalent action is called in the Granite State). |
If he/they violated a court order the go back to court with the evidence and let the court deal with it.
a question - was the boat impinging on the OP’s ability to use his dock? If it was a space that is normally open what’s the big deal if the neighbor didn’t respond immediately? I do agree however that they should ask. Sounds like there is more to this story of neighbor on neighbor crime. Maybe a fence on the property line fixes the issue. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
I am astounded by the responses. So the OP is supposed to take a day out of work, hire an attorney, and essentially re-litigate an issue that was already resolved in his favor. I've been involved in several contempt of court issues. It's not as easy as taking a photograph of the boat and saying the neighbor violated the court's order. You basically have to start from scratch. It's a very, very frustrating process.
I am also astounded by how easily people want to give away another person's property, all for maintaining an appearance of being a "good neighbor." Who's behavior is causing the issue? The OP or the neighbor? So if I have an extra dock slip, I should let my neighbor use it without permission so I can appear virtuous? Does this apply to excess parking spaces? To extra vehicles? Where does it end? It is the neighbor in this instance who broke the trust. He is not entitled to an ounce of mercy or grace in this situation. |
I would like to follow up;
First I would never consider releasing a boat secured to my dock, although I would be tempted !! I have followed up with the Laconia PD. They suggest that at the present time this is a civil matter. If I want to pursue this I would need to go back to court, ugly. They did volunteer to come and talk with my neighbor if this does reoccur. Hope this helps, Bill |
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It beats going to Court if you can nip it in the bud. |
Friends of ours
Some friends of ours allowed their neighbor (neighbor B) to dock their boat at their dock. It was agreeable and they were friends as well. It was always clear that the dock was on neighbors A's side of the property line and had paid for and installed the dock. Neighbors B (who used friends dock) sells house and then dies. Neighbor A also dies and leaves dock and house to family. Yes, they were older folk.
Still following? Neighbor C who bought house from neighbor B now claims he owns the dock that is on Neighbors A's land. Adverse possession is the claim and they are headed to court. Meanwhile neighbors C uses the dock as he pleases. I know it will cost a lot of money to fight it out and if neighbor C can prove adverse possession he may win the dock. Just goes to show you no good deed ever goes unpunished. |
Not to worry, isn't it too bad that you can't be nice to anybody any more?
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https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/adverse_possession |
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Adverse possession is invalid if one has been granted permission.
Call the police or MP and hand them the court order and tell them to get the offender to remove and maybe arrest them. That being said I MIGHT set the boat free in the middle of the night. If questioned, I would say. What boat. If you tied a boat there you must not have secured it properly. ___________________________ I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic |
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There is also a provision in the law that states that the person claiming adverse possession must be the one to occupy said property for a set period of time. This cannot, I would think, be conveyed or claimed through the purchase of a piece of property by another party.
Then again I'm just a forum lawyer so what the heck do I know. |
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The lack of hostile possession seems to be the key. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
The word "hostile", altho used in the law, may not conform to what one might think. Reference:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ion-claim.html |
Correct but I think the fact that the neighbor had permission negates hostile possession.
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Your premise that the neighbor is trespassing is correct. Police involvement when ensure that you don't do anything outside law. And if your neighbor is less then co-operative, they will deal with the issue for you. |
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This is a civil, not criminal matter. The police and marine patrol will not want to be involved. |
Another issue is, what if the trespassers have had a few adult beverages and someone fall and is injured on your property? I know you pay and have to pay an attorney to mitagate the amount then fight with the insurance company! Me I would have already posted NO TRESPASSING sign on the dock
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Yes, the claim has to have been hostile and existed for 20 years. The fact that the previous owner had permission negates all of this. The new owner can only clain adverse possession if s/he has been using the property knowingly by the true owner and in hostility for 20 years.
Possible counter suit/ slap suit. __________________________________________ I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic |
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Given the situation, I would suggest skipping over the Laconia PD, and next try the Marine Patrol... As Jurisdictional wise, they probably have the Jurisdiction, as it involves the State Water Way.... If the Marine Patrol will not deal with it... Then its time to call the State Representative for the Town, and sit down with them.... While the infraction may now be dealt with... As a homeowner you and have to have a avenue to resolve what is a criminal transgression, by your neighbor.... I understand the Laconia PD stand point, as often these issues will just resolve them selves.... Which is why it is important to report it to them, so the incident, and future incidents are logged. Would I want my neighbor to go to jail, most certainly not... Would I like to have their boat safely removed from my property yes.... So I suppose in this light you could just call Sea Tow, and maybe they would come remove the vehicle..... |
Homeowners Insurance
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If this gets/becomes nastier, you can also ask the police to give the neighbor a "Tresspass Warning." After that, the police can supposedly arrest them any time they are on your property.
Then... Chain the boat to your dock and call it in when they come back to get it. |
Since there appears to be history of conflict between you and your neighbor I would put up small unobtrusive no trespassing signs were they would tie up their boat, I say small so it isn’t an eyesore to you.
I would also draft up an invoice for the time their boat was docked at your dock. $100 a day sounds reasonable. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
The LPD are wrong. This is in their jurisdiction. As a elder couple, the wife and I fearful of our property and possible harm have the right to defend yourself. Lawn chair and shotgun then call the LPD. Bet they handle the issue a bit more serious
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