Pay As You Throw
 

Laconia is considering a 'Pay As You Throw" method of garbage collection and will be holding a public meeting about it on September 14th. I wonder whether other towns around the Lakes Region have gone this route and how it is working? One concern I have with the bags is that wild animals can easily tear them open and strew their contents hither and yon. I presently use a metal can with secure lid with bail, which prevents this from happening. Many residents need to put their garbage out the night before it is to be picked up and this is when animals are on the prowl.

Another issue I have is having to pay to dispose of trash other's toss onto my property. Living in a high traffic area, I begin picking up trash in early spring and continue to do so until the snow flies. Among the items I have discovered have included auto parts, a piece of a truck bed-liner, along with the usual bottles, cans and fast food containers. The larger items might not fit into a bag or pierce through them. Paying for the trash I generate is one thing, but having to pay for what others throw my way is quite another.

I would appreciate input on the pros and cons. I already know how it will impact my pocketbook.

Couple things I would be asking that shot to the front of my mind:

Would the portion of my taxes that already go to sanitation going to removed from my tax bill?

Also how would this work, is someone going to be weighing my trash or counting the number of bags I leave out? or forcing me to buy those stupid town type trash bags that are only like 13 gallons and then only tell me how many I can put out a week

I would tell them to go out and get a better contract with another trash company and see what happens

From what I've heard from our town administrator, this type of program can result in a lot more littering and people leaving behind things like old appliances or other items they'd have to pay to throw out. I don't think Alton has ever really considered such a program but I recall the question coming up during discussion about the town budget.

I don't know what Laconia has received in the past for revenue from recycling, and I would imagine this has decreased in the current economy, but I wonder how they are going to enforce this?

At a time when people are having trouble making ends meet and many are living on assistance (I believe that over 50% of the students at Laconia High School receive free or reduced lunch), tell me how this is a good idea?

I would imagine it would mean an increase in personnel, for one thing, and if so, is that really the best solution to this problem?

Also, are the voters going to have any say in this program as to whether it gets started or not?

Thank you Argie's wife

Places like where we live have a dumpster, I would also see an increase influx of other people using it

I lived in Pawtucket RI for 5 years and a year into it they changed trash companies and started charging for item removals (like appliances mattresses and furniture) and only taking certian things on certain weeks (all pick up, not having to go to the dump keep in mind) Well the trash that started to get thrown around the streets and fields and vacant lots and it was just aweful
Well after that contract went out they went back to another trash company and stopped all the extra fees and specific bagging and what not. Well trash removal was better but the other trash that was put all over the place was never really fully removed, or the city went out and had to clean up all the extra trash.

Bottom line - really bad idea.

The BOS tried that here and it got shot-down by ballot. I did the math and it would have cost me triple even though they said it would be a savings compared to rolling it into the tax rate.

Every condo association in Laconia with dumpsters will see ousiders throwing their trash there. It happens anyway......this will only make it worse. I suspect most citizens in Laconia do not support this idea.

:eek::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::la ugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

That was funny, thank you. (They almost never give any back.....)

Not only dumpsters, every dirt road in a neighboring town will become a dumping spot. Not just furniture and appliances either, bags of garbage as well.

This is usually driven by recycling fanatics. They think if you charge people by the bag, they will spend more time sorting out the recyclables and reduce their bag count. This misses the point that throwing your trash in the woods is a lot easier than paying.

I live in Hollis on a dead end street and I get all kinds of fun stuff. This will be much worse in Laconia, as the neighborhood is much more rural.

Pay As You Throw Follow-up Post
 

Perhaps someone who lives in Laconia and is more knowledgeable than I am about the proposed program will chime in here. As I understand it, there are two sizes of bags, costing $2.00 and $3.00 respectively. They are purple in color and anything left at curbside not in a purple bag will not be picked up. I guess that means non conforming receptacles and bags of another color will remain at roadside forever.

Laconia does not have the service whereby large appliances are picked up at the curb - only regular trash and garbage. Residents have to haul large items to the transfer station themselves (or hire someone to do so) and pay a fee for each item left there. That is why many of these items wind up on back roads or in the woods.

You can be sure the amount which has been included in our tax bills for rubbish removal in the past will not be deducted from our tax bills. This will be an additional cost to the taxpayer.

Our town was considering the same thing, and it was driven by recycling revenue. The idea was that seperated recyclables were free, and "regular" trash was pay as you go in a colored bag. The hope was that people would recycle everything in order to drive down the cost of their trash removal, and the town would profit from the money made on recycling. It was shot down, but pops up every few years.

Payt
 

We've got PAYT where I live down here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. It was implemented in 2004. Being on Town Meeting I see each year's detailed DPW budget and my impression is that it seems like a good idea on paper, but...

Despite the reduction in solid waste hauled away (30%) and the increase in recycling (15% or so) the DPW budget has not shrunk and the bags have already gone up 25% ($1.00 to $1.25). And there's a short list of places to buy the special town bags.

I'm not sure if I have a better solution but I do think PAYT is far from perfect.

I’m not aware of pay to throw ever being proposed in Alton, if it ever were it would be the BOS that would be thrown out. :cool:

Alton has had “mandatory” recycling for a long time. OK we all know that no one really checks but we do it anyway as we realize how much it keeps costs down. Works just fine.

Many years ago a former Alton town administrator proposed paying by weight of your trash. He proposed a drive on scale to weigh the vehicle on the way up to the hopper and then weigh it again after dumping so as to calculate the weight if the trash you dumped. An employee would then collect the appropriate fee. No only did this have all the problems of having to buy bags (trash in the woods, etc.) but there was the cost of the scale and the extra employee. Fortunately, for Alton, that administrator moved on. He now is in Gilford.

My town implemented this several years ago. Thirty gallon bags cost $1 each, and 15 gallon bags are $.50. You would still be able to use your metal can to deter animals, just put the town bag/s in the can. The trash guys will take the special town bags and only the town bags. From what we've been told, the amount of stuff going to the landfill has decreased substantially and the amount put out for recycling (single stream, no charge for pickup), has gone way up. I haven't noticed any problems with more household trash being thrown in the woods or by the side of the road since PAYT started. Larger stuff (tires, furniture, appliances) that have always cost money to dispose of still show up where they shouldn't but it doesn't seem to have increased.

And no, our taxes haven't gone down to compensate for the additional cost of the town trash bags. For my family of four, we use at most one 30 gallon bag per week, so our extra yearly cost is no more than $52. I will say this: I am now much more careful with what I put in the trash, and I make a conscious effort to recycle whatever I can.

Out town has had PAYT for a few years now. There was a lot of gnashing of teeth when it was proposed.

We already compost and recycle so we only put out a large bag every other week or so, sometimes less often.

I really haven't seen any changes in behavior. One thing that I do take notice of is how much trash some homes generate. Multiple large bags a week, every week. I can see that adding up in a hurry.

We just make sure the bag is in a can when it's out at the curb. No issues with wildlife.

A few years ago, Burlington MA went from curbside pickup of trash every week plus curbside pickup of recyclables every other week, by manual effort, to weekly pickup of everything, with the non-recyclable trash picked up by automated truck (just the driver). The trash has to be in a 55 gallon bin with a lifting bar used by the truck. The bin is provided at no extra cost by the town; it has wheels for moving it to curbside. Anything that won't fit in the wheeled bin can be put into special bags that can be purchased at the town hall. Large objects, old appliances, etc. will be picked up at no extra cost, but the homeowner has to call the contractor to arrange the pickup, and there is a limit to how much of that can be picked up at a time.

Moultonborough has its "transfer station," where separation of recyclables is mandatory. Unless you have trash pickup by private contractor, you take your stuff there (I go perhaps every other week), put your stuff into the right bins, with supervision by the onsite staff. The recyclables make a tiny profit, some more than others, but the savings is not having to pay to have the recyclables taken away as trash. Old appliances and large things do cost something to get rid of at the transfer station, as does demo debris.

Culling the recyclables from the trash really does reduce the volume and tonnage of what has to be landfilled somewhere, at some cost per ton. It seems a shame to put an empty beverage can, essentially pure aluminum smelted out of ore at great energy cost, into household trash. The same thing goes for plastic containers. They can be reused for many things, so why not do it?

Perhaps a big trash moneysaver would be to find a way to return the tons of unwanted clothing and similar junk mail catalogs to the sender, with the sender required by law to pay for the return postage. That would shrink the volume of such junk in a hurry. It makes no sense to have that kind of volume of printed matter go from the mailbox straight to a landfill, unopened. (Ah, I'm soapboxing again)

Fully agree on the junk mail issue. It is ridiculous. Packaging is another issue. Most of my home trash is simply packaging. Such a waste of time and material just to get thrown away.
I live in Moultonborough as well and deal with the Dump police every Saturday. But I have a new found respect for those guys there. The weather was horrible when I went last time and there they were dealing with Summer home owners. They get simply NO respect sometimes. I for one intend to be more polite when there.:D
Not certain if I should figure this out...but is PAYT cheaper than the time and gas it takes to go to the dump?:confused:

I don't view the folks at the M'boro facility as "dump police," to be dealt with. They have rules they have to enforce and deserve courtesy and respect. I wonder if the summer people, having to "take time out from vacation to go to the dump," are more surly because they aren't doing what they want to be doing.

I try to lump trips to the facility with other errands. From LI just to rte 25 takes a half hour for the round trip, not something to waste. Given time planning, I suspect that taking my stuff to the facility myself is cheaper than paying someone, private or town, to come get it.

I take all the postage paid return envelopes that come with the never-ending stream of credit card offers and stuff them with the junk mail (after I remove the address). I figure I'm doing my part to keep the USPS from losing even more money. :laugh:

Tucking it to the credit card company is yet another added benefit. ;)

It just boggles the mind....
 

:offtopic: (Slightly...)

Not to derail this but...

OK, you're sending your junk mail back to the sender...

The mail gets picked up by your mailman in his truck. (<--burns gas)
He puts it in mail sorting machine to sort it. (<--uses electricity)
From there, it goes onto a truck to go to a hub. (<-- burns gas)
The hub is next to an airport, so the mail goes onto a plane. (<--burns fuel)
From the plane, the mail goes to another hub for sorting.(<--uses electricity)
After it's sorted, it goes onto a truck to go to the post office. (<--burns gas)
At the post office, it goes into a sorting machine. (<-- uses electricity)
And from there, it goes into mail bag and onto a truck. (<--burns gas)

So the mail goes back to the sender, who can't resend or use it and so they put it in the paper recycling bin (hopefully). :cool:

Tell me again how this is "green" or saves you money or ??? what? :rolleye2:

You're not really sticking it to the sender - you're sticking it to the US Postal Service, when you consider it. Who pays for that? The consumer (us!)....

So simply write the mailing brokers (there's only 4 and I believe most accept emails) - and ask to have your name taken off the third class (junk mail) lists.

Or...

Use that junk mail to start your next bonfire...
Give it to the kids to cut out the pictures...
Throw it in your own recycling bin...
Toss it into the mulcher...
Line your bird cage with it...

Y'all are Yankees - be resourceful! :)

Slightly off-topic?


The City of Laconia had a classified ad officially accepting bids for 200 curbside recycling containers. These 200 containers would be set out in public areas, presumably next to a sidewalk all across Laconia, for people to deposit plastic bottles, aluminum soda cans, various recyclable containers, and the purpose is to reduce the amount of "single stream" refuse material that gets tossed out with individual "trash-pay as you throw" bags that go to the transfer station.


Wonder what these 'neighborhood recycle-deposit containers' will look like? Could well be they will have some arty-designer circular arrows design, with the plastic and aluminum all going round and round, getting re-used, to send an educational message to the neighborhood? Maybe they could be disguised to look exactly like a U.S. Postal letter box, as opposed to a trash can?

Well.... think about it... People aren't willing to pay for PAYT, but they are willing to burden the postal system with junk and... that costs money. So, they're paying for it either way.:)

Concord Nh introduced pay as you throw two years ago and It is working very well. yes it cost me at least $1:00 a week . forces one to recycle. Im all for the concept.

:D

No brainer
 

In Bedford we have gone to single stream recycling. Couldn't get much easier to recycle. All paper/cardboard, glass, plastic, aluminum and tin cans. Doesn't leave a lot left to put in a landfill after I separate. I'm so trained now to use 2 containers I don't even think about what goes where.

I drop it in the box at the post office when I go to the gym every day. However, our mail carrier drives by our house every day anyway.

The rest is noise. The postal service is paid for their services by the credit card company unless you're saying that they lose money on each and every letter mailed?

If that's the case, don't mail anything, ever. The post office will be swimming in cash in no time. :rolleye1:

Oh, and I am well aware of the opt out options for the credit card offers. But since I've got way too much time on my hands....

I applaud the programs in Meredith and Moultonborough (the only facilities that I am familiar with)..........they are neat and tidy,well run.Looks like you could build condo's there.
My only gripe is the big charge for appliances.Don't we all pay enough taxes to cover that cost?
Anyone on hard times is just going to dump their old fridge,dishwasher,stove,etc in the woods to avoid payment.
Someone dumped an appliance on our road last year and I happened to have my trailer on so I dragged it in and took it to Meredith transfer station recycling center aka "the dump".I explained to the attendant that it wasn't mine,but a roadside pick up.......but he had no mercy.....$15 please !

We've had pay as you throw for a few years now. I like it because it punishes wasteful behavior.

I'm all for programs that encourage recycling but I have noticed what appears to be high levels of littering/dumping in lower income areas of Worcester and few of the city trash bags out at curbs. For some people $5 or $10+ for a pack of trash bags is beyond their means (or what they consider important) so it seems some people overstuff bags and they break or they illegally dump & litter to minimize disposal costs.

As a Laconia taxpayer I would prefer to see more recycling programs than PAYT which very well may lead to increased litter and illegal dumping (including in our association dumpster!).

If you can afford $6.00 for a pack of butts or for a six-pack, you should be able to afford the $1.25 for a trash bag.

You're right Joe of course, unfortunately the more accurate assessment is if you are down to your last $6.00 where do you think it will go, butts or trash bags? I think we all know it will go to butts, or whatever else.

Well all this is good and all, it still will not change the fact that people will think and really do, already pay for this service with their taxes. Oh and by the way almost every year we come back from the winter our dumpster is packed by the phamtoms and also a friend of mine in another place is as well

This thread on pay-as-you-throw trash bags in Laconia was started a couple years ago......and I thought I would ask the question......how has the P-A-Y-T purple trash bag program been working out for Laconia?

If it is good for Laconia, then will it be coming to Meredith sometime?

pay as you throw
 

What ever you do don't buy into this. I moved up here last July from Malden Ma. They installed this program against the will of the people. It was the worst thing that ever happened to the city. Trash was thrown all over the place. People would dump their trash at my house not even in bags and I had to pay to get rid of it. As a result of this program the city streets became filthly with trash and all kinds of other junk. People would throw stuff all over the place. People just used the bags on trash day and animals would tear them apart and make a real mess of things. Also the city did not lower the tax rate for the amount of money that was already assessed for picking up trash and then charging us for the bags so in fact they were charging us twice for the trash. Don't buy into this you are never going to get a break or lower your taxes with this probram.

Unless I missed something.
 

I do not believe the plan went through. Owning a rental in Laconia (big mistake) I have not heard anything about it and as far as I've noticed the trucks are still rolling through town.
I wish Belmont offered a curbside recycling program. :(

From LDS
 

<dl class="article-info"><dd class="published"> Published Date </dd><dd class="createdby"> Written by Michael Kitch </dd></dl>

Looks Like PAYT Is Coming to Laconia
 

About a year ago the Laconia City Council mounted a campaign to try to get residents to recycle more. They hoped people would cooperate and thus PAYT could be avoided. The recycling rate was 14% at the time and after months of coaxing and cajoling the rate had only risen a few percentage points and was insignificant. Incredible how those who scream the loudest about high taxes refuse to do something as simple as recycling to lower the cost of waste disposal and save money. Now it appears the citizens of Laconia are destined to have PAYT thrust upon them. Can't say the city fathers didn't try!

Gilford
 

I remember Gilford decades ago had a program where you had to buy wrap tags and DPW will only pick up bags with the wrap tags. The problem with that is weekenders can't get to clerk office in time to get the tags and the bags ended up in condo or business dumpsters. Some folks did bring the bags home.
If Laconia made the transfer station more convenience, I would see a rise in recyclables. I see a lot of furniture, construction debris etc. at dead end streets and in the woods around Laconia because folks can't get to the transfer station.

I'm not a fan of pay as you go. We had it in the town we lived in prior to moving to NH, and as others have noted, the abuses of the the system far outweighed the advantages.

It does amaze me each week how much we can recycle with attention. I estimate that at least 50% of our trash is now recycled with little effort other than paying attention to which bin to throw things in.

Even better, during winter, the paper products and stuff that needs to be shredded make great fire starters!

Here's the real reason (just to finish off your list):

• The mail gets picked up by your mailman in his truck. (<--burns gas)
• He puts it in mail sorting machine to sort it. (<--uses electricity)
• From there, it goes onto a truck to go to a hub. (<-- burns gas)
• The hub is next to an airport, so the mail goes onto a plane. (<--burns fuel)
• From the plane, the mail goes to another hub for sorting.(<--uses electricity)
• After it's sorted, it goes onto a truck to go to the post office. (<--burns gas)
• At the post office, it goes into a sorting machine. (<-- uses electricity)
• And from there, it goes into mail bag and onto a truck. (<--burns gas)
• So the mail goes back to the sender, who not only has to pay the postage, but he has go through the same time-wasting ordeal that I encounter -- He has to expend labor to open it up, read it, and since it's worthless to him, he can't resend or use it -- PRICELESS!

Payt
 

I worked for a company in Chelmsford, MA when they moved to PAYT. Our dumpsters immediately overflowed. We put locks on them and people just threw trash on them and around them. Security cameras were installed. It still didn't stop. People parked around the side of the building that wasn't ours and ran the trash around the building or just threw it around the corner. It was a total mess. Some people left things with their name on them in the trash and the police got to rip through the garbage to try to find it. Honestly, they just didn't bother after a while. So, it cost everyone a lot of time and money except the people that decided they weren't going to pay.

A few years ago Andy Rooney talked about this and that's what he would do, send the junk with prepaid postage on it back to the sender. I will admit I have done it a few times

God blessed Andy Rooney
 

The only guy I know that can make sense of the chaos today.

I wish he had run for president.

When I lived in Worcester, the bags for PAYT were only 50 cents apiece. They were so valuable that we still used regular garbage bags for our refuse and then put those inside the PAYT bags. That prevented costly rips and ensured we'd get the most for our dollar.

I now live in Melrose, MA and we pay $50 per quarter for trash pickup. It's a separate line item on our water/sewer bill from the town and perfectly reasonable.

Another option for towns is to go the Winchester, MA route which has no municipal trash collection. People have to pay a private hauler to take the trash or pay the pay the $190 annual fee for the privilege of schlepping it themselves to the town transfer station.

In Sanbornton you have to pay for bags well now they're stickers but they are going back to bags. 20 bags cost $12.50 now you get 5 stickers for $6.25 and then we get Jerry's Trucking to come pick up the bags is another $6.00 per week or $300.00 per year. With Jerry's there is no recycling everything goes in the bags.If you have an extra 3 hrs on a Saturday then you could save the $300.00 per year.My time is to valuable to me so we have him pick it up. I called Bestway where you don't need to use the bags but it was $575.00 per year. So total cost is about $375.00 per year for Sanbornton residents.

laconia is gonna tax us right outta town. we've been seriously considering selling and buying in another local town with better/lower tax rates. as it is, we pay over 7k a year in property taxes and we don't have city water or sewer, or even a paved road. the only thing we get from the city is trash pick up, they don't even plow to the end of my road, i do it myself. if they go to the barney bags, i'm gonna be some pissed off. i'll burn most of my trash and make smores.

Stickers
 

Here in MA we have trash stickers that are noe $2.50 each. This way you can use the super duper contractor bags. Each bag is not supposed to be over 25lbs. They will take heavier bags as long as you don't abuse it. Once I cleaned out my cellar and put out 19 bags. They took they all. I did leave a nice note and three huge bags of M and Ms for their trouble. They alway take what I put out even a few extra empty boxes.

I like the sticker idea over the trash bag idea ... no worries over ripped usless bags.

IG